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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Quarzac on Sun, 08 January 2012, 20:29:21

Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Quarzac on Sun, 08 January 2012, 20:29:21: After spending a good four months with Cherry MX Blues and too much on Christmas deals, I'm back to the Model M. My sister was crushed when I reclaimed it (maybe because I set her up with an old keytronic with a 1x backspace), but I gotta say, it was totally worth it. My love for buckling springs has been reignited. No sound beats the deep tones of the Model M. Maybe I'll get around to getting a Unicomp if they ever get back to me on the custom keys thing and see if there's really a noticeable difference.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: litster on Sun, 08 January 2012, 20:52:02: It is time for you to find a good IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard!
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Mon, 09 January 2012, 07:58:46: Quote from: Quarzac;486298
My sister was crushed when I reclaimed it (maybe because I set her up with an old keytronic with a 1x backspace), but I gotta say, it was totally worth it.

Maybe it's time to buy her her own Model M or a Unicomp? It's sometimes difficult to convince others how good mechanical keyboards are, but in your case, she is already converted.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: wcass on Mon, 09 January 2012, 13:09:23: what kind of custom keys are you looking for?
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: fohat.digs on Mon, 09 January 2012, 13:47:05: NOTHING SATISFIES like buckling springs.

I am currently taking a break from my Model F, and typing on my Leopold FC3456-A (or is it a FC500RC/AB?) with blues and soft landing pads, and it is very nice but altogether "dainty" in comparison, even if the rip-o-meter scale says they are not too dissimilar in force.

Might this be the perfect choice for the lighter touch of the fairer sex?
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 09 January 2012, 14:13:01: Love my unicomp. The look is a little "softer" than the Model M IMO (everything is a teensy bit more rounded) but the feel is very similar.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 09 January 2012, 14:27:05: I love my IBM Model M, and I would love to go back to using it. If only Unicomp made a tenkeyless, backlit keyboard... then I would replace my TG3 BL82 with a buckling spring board. Until then, I will have to stick with the MX Blacks (which aren't bad switches themselves, but are inferior to BS's IMO). I just love having a backlit board.

Speaking of Model M's... would anyone happen to have a spare vertical "Enter" key cap? My cats had knocked my Model M off my desk a while back and broke the number pad "Enter" key's stabilizer, and I would love to replace it. If nobody has one I will have to email Unicomp.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: czarek on Mon, 09 January 2012, 15:28:58: Yeah, buckling springs for live. Nothing even virtually compares to its sound and feel.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: wcass on Mon, 09 January 2012, 16:13:38: Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement;486746
I love my IBM Model M, and I would love to go back to using it. If only Unicomp made a tenkeyless, backlit keyboard... then I would replace my TG3 BL82 with a buckling spring board. Until then, I will have to stick with the MX Blacks (which aren't bad switches themselves, but are inferior to BS's IMO). I just love having a backlit board.

Speaking of Model M's... would anyone happen to have a spare vertical "Enter" key cap? My cats had knocked my Model M off my desk a while back and broke the number pad "Enter" key's stabilizer, and I would love to replace it. If nobody has one I will have to email Unicomp.

i have an enter key for ya. and for your 10keyless wish-list i did made this. my origional plan was to have keyboard attached overhead "antena" lighting, but decided to drop that. and i have gone all silver keys since this picture was taken.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 09 January 2012, 16:56:54: Quote from: wcass;486840
i have an enter key for ya. and for your 10keyless wish-list i did made this. my origional plan was to have keyboard attached overhead "antena" lighting, but decided to drop that. and i have gone all silver keys since this picture was taken.

Thanks so much, I have responded to your PM. It will be nice to be able to use every key on my Model M again :smile:
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Mon, 09 January 2012, 22:28:09: I don't think you should sell your other board though. I think you're starting to stumble upon why so many of us rotate which keyboard is in use.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Quarzac on Tue, 10 January 2012, 20:47:34: Quote from: litster;486316
It is time for you to find a good IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard!
I've had two! I'm not a fan of tenkeyless boards. I use the numberpad too much for coding and date entry, and the staggered pad on the mainboard of the SSK didn't do it for me.
Quote from: patrickgeekhack;486529
Maybe it's time to buy her her own Model M or a Unicomp? It's sometimes difficult to convince others how good mechanical keyboards are, but in your case, she is already converted.
I will probably give her this one once I buy a Unicomp.
Quote from: wcass;486702
what kind of custom keys are you looking for?
Dark green. I want nothing more than a dark green board, maybe with white accents. I've filed a ticket with Unicomp; we'll see what they can do.
Quote from: fohat.digs;486721
NOTHING SATISFIES like buckling springs.

I am currently taking a break from my Model F, and typing on my Leopold FC3456-A (or is it a FC500RC/AB?) with blues and soft landing pads, and it is very nice but altogether "dainty" in comparison, even if the rip-o-meter scale says they are not too dissimilar in force.

Might this be the perfect choice for the lighter touch of the fairer sex?
My sister absolutely demolishes keyboards. She did very well with the Model M. She types twice as fast as I do on it.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 10 January 2012, 22:43:36: There's an M for sale in the classifieds for $30 right now. The brotherly thing to do would be to pick it up for your loving sister.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Quarzac on Tue, 10 January 2012, 23:01:06: I was going to when I saw it, actually, but then I realized I only have $20 in the bank. No could do. I spent too much on the Christmas Steam sale.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 10 January 2012, 23:04:11: (http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/218174-the-holiday-2011-steam-sale-is-on/Untitled-2-620x.jpg)
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Quarzac on Tue, 10 January 2012, 23:06:09: Quote from: hashbaz;487751
Show Image
(http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/218174-the-holiday-2011-steam-sale-is-on/Untitled-2-620x.jpg)
You know, prior to this sale, that never really pertained to me. But then this sale happened.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Deverica Wolf on Wed, 11 January 2012, 01:03:04: That picture is so true...OMG. :puke:
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Keymonger on Wed, 11 January 2012, 01:21:59: I can understand people who think buckling spring feels nice, but the sound? It sounds kind of dirty compared to Cherry MX Blue. Crisp clicking or bust.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: pitashen on Wed, 11 January 2012, 03:24:16: The only thing preventing me from getting a model m is my wife.. Argg
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 11 January 2012, 08:25:08: Get a Model M, stuff the case with padding, and floss the springs. It will cut down on the sound quite a bit, especially the resonant part that carries into the next room.

Then, when the situation changes, for better or for worse, pull out the floss with a pair of tweezers.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: czarek on Wed, 11 January 2012, 11:34:14: Quote from: Keymonger;487805
I can understand people who think buckling spring feels nice, but the sound? It sounds kind of dirty compared to Cherry MX Blue. Crisp clicking or bust.

LOL I'd rather say blue cherries sound like cheap plasticky Buckling Spring ripoff. Not to mention their feel - kinda mushy compared to BS, their lightness may be actually an advantage for some.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: KillerBee on Wed, 11 January 2012, 12:31:29: Quote from: pitashen;487843
The only thing preventing me from getting a model m is my wife.. Argg

... I would say something but it could... hurt... first look at your sig if you have all those and your wife is oka with it... I think the only thing holding you back is your own fear...
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: wcass on Wed, 11 January 2012, 21:39:53: it is true that after using the board for a month or so, you just don't notice the sound unless you listen for it.

my wife and i work in the same home office. i got her a model M and she loved the feel of it right away. now we have no complaints about sound.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: TacticalCoder on Wed, 11 January 2012, 22:27:35: Quote from: fohat.digs;487898
Get a Model M, stuff the case with padding, and floss the springs

I never tried to pad the case (any link to a mod or something?) but I did the floss mod on several Ms. It simply rocks. No more resonating "schdloiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing" noise.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 11 January 2012, 22:34:45: Quote from: TacticalCoder;488404
I never tried to pad the case (any link to a mod or something?) but I did the floss mod on several Ms. It simply rocks. No more resonating "schdloiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing" noise.

Aww, I like the schdloing. It really puts the mechanical in mechanical keyboard.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 12 January 2012, 12:04:08: I like using foam padded drawer liner (see "rubbery" in a parallel thread) in the bottom of the case.

I have also used black felt, both laid flat and rolled up into cylinders stuck into strategic cavities.

I have an old pillow with polyester stuffing, and I just grab a gob about the size of a golf ball and stuff it in anywhere you can find a place, with a chopstick or similar tool.

There are other things I have tried, rubberized spray paint, layers of electrical tape (the rough friction kind or regular smooth) at bearing points where pieces meet.

Each probably makes some small contribution, and it can add up to a lot of dampening effect overall.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: NamelessPFG on Sat, 14 January 2012, 17:20:03: Quote from: hashbaz;487751
Show Image
(http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/218174-the-holiday-2011-steam-sale-is-on/Untitled-2-620x.jpg)
This is a fitting reminder of how I must have spent around $175 during the holidays, mostly on Steam. I wasn't expecting it to be nearly that much...

Anyway, on a more on-topic note, I switched back to my Model M a few months ago. It indeed is more satisfying than my Cherry MX Blue board. Seems like the only way that's really up from here is a converted Model F 122.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Surly73 on Sat, 14 January 2012, 19:24:14: re: the steam/wallet comic

It's funny 'cause it's true :)
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Thinkpad Fan on Sun, 15 January 2012, 10:07:47: The Model M's "noise" is actually superior engineering, far ahead of it's time, and thinking far outside the box. The concept is psycho-acoustic feedback, instantaniously to the user, and as your ear hears the spring it's pressing "break over", it can go on to the next key WITHOUT BOTTOMING - saving your joints from carpal tunnel, and giving 15-20% more speed, on average.

Everything else is "Just Less!". Gives people something to argue about and wastes time - kind of like football - but nothing works as well as a good old Model M. It was designed by the people who had been making the Selectric Typewriter - and they knew what they were doing! (Not that I'm biased.....) Thinkpad Fan
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Surly73 on Sun, 15 January 2012, 13:23:02: Quote from: Thinkpad Fan;491037
The Model M's "noise" is actually superior engineering, far ahead of it's time, and thinking far outside the box. The concept is psycho-acoustic feedback, instantaniously to the user, and as your ear hears the spring it's pressing "break over", it can go on to the next key WITHOUT BOTTOMING - saving your joints from carpal tunnel, and giving 15-20% more speed, on average.

Well, I'm not so sure of all that. The impression that I get is that Model F and Model M keyboards are the way they are because of the key touch on the IBM Selectric typewriters. They were trying to make computers feel like the typewriters that keyboardists were familiar with previously.

Now, having used one extensively decades ago, I'm not sure that the Selectric typewriters had "psycho acoustic feedback that was far ahead of their time" or if the key feel is just the way that electromechanical typewriters felt....

Anyone know for sure?
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Thinkpad Fan on Sun, 15 January 2012, 17:16:09: No, the Selectric didn't have the same psycho-acoustic feedback - but it did have the best "feel" in an electric typewriter, and was the favorite of admins everywhere. The Selectric also requires a firm, positive keypress, and was among the fastest, if not the fastest, typewriter then available. IBM kept that superior quality "feel" - and, if anything, made an even better keyboard with the Model M than their own mighty Selectric. (I have two Selectrics, and they are also fun to type on - but not quite as nice as good Model M.) The IBM Model M keyboard design is acknowledged to be faster than more recent (and quieter) models from most other makers today - yet it requires a stronger keypress. So something is going on here, when experienced typists are faster on it!

And whatever it is, it's been around since 1985 - and is still sought after. Thinkpad Fan
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: o2dazone on Sun, 15 January 2012, 23:10:50: Got a model m, and within a day of receiving it, slipped a couple "Superfloss" fluffy floss pieces in the springs. It not only removed all the twangy pings with the spring buckling, but it also reduced some of the harsher activation (or maybe I'm just used to less tactility). Either way, I haven't been in this much love since I received my first mechanical keyboard. Unfortunately the layout kills it for me, so itll probably just get dusty on a shelf :(
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Surly73 on Mon, 16 January 2012, 07:19:50: Quote from: o2dazone;491409
Unfortunately the layout kills it for me, so itll probably just get dusty on a shelf :(

Out of curiosity - which layout is your keyboard and what country are you in?

I'm in Canada and I find my 1397599 model M to be the reference standard for layout (other than missing windows keys - I remapped right alt using the registry and now I don't miss it).
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: False_Dmitry_II on Mon, 16 January 2012, 16:19:23: Quote from: Surly73;491583
Out of curiosity - which layout is your keyboard and what country are you in?

I'm in Canada and I find my 1397599 model M to be the reference standard for layout (other than missing windows keys - I remapped right alt using the registry and now I don't miss it).

I can only assume that he means that it's big. Because you're right, the M is THE standard for layout.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: o2dazone on Mon, 16 January 2012, 19:43:11: Quote from: Surly73;491583
Out of curiosity - which layout is your keyboard and what country are you in?

I'm in Canada and I find my 1397599 model M to be the reference standard for layout (other than missing windows keys - I remapped right alt using the registry and now I don't miss it).

I'm used to ANSI HHKB (Sun Type 5) layout. But yeah, it's mostly because ten key and arrow keys are in the way, makes my right arm extend out way beyond what I'm used to. It's a great layout, just used to using something much smaller...
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Surly73 on Tue, 17 January 2012, 07:32:36: Quote from: o2dazone;492051
I'm used to ANSI HHKB (Sun Type 5) layout. But yeah, it's mostly because ten key and arrow keys are in the way, makes my right arm extend out way beyond what I'm used to. It's a great layout, just used to using something much smaller...

HHKB? Well, yes, a model M is a battleship compared to a HHKB. lol Any 101-104 would be, not just an M.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: poxeclipse on Tue, 17 January 2012, 08:01:36: Quote from: wcass;486840
i have an enter key for ya. and for your 10keyless wish-list i did made this. my origional plan was to have keyboard attached overhead "antena" lighting, but decided to drop that. and i have gone all silver keys since this picture was taken.

Looks like you cut a full size M to make this SSK. Was it hard ?
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: patrickgeekhack on Tue, 17 January 2012, 08:12:19: Quote from: Thinkpad Fan;491037
The Model M's "noise" is actually superior engineering, far ahead of it's time, and thinking far outside the box. The concept is psycho-acoustic feedback, instantaniously to the user, and as your ear hears the spring it's pressing "break over", it can go on to the next key WITHOUT BOTTOMING - saving your joints from carpal tunnel, and giving 15-20% more speed, on average.

I don't know if an IBM Model M will indeed save people from Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (CPS). There is no data to compare it. I personally believe that the main cause of CPS is the mouse. That said, I find it very hard to not bottom out on the Model M (not that I care). The resistance drops so much after the key is actuated, and the travel left is so short. Also, there are times when a Model M is very painful for me. My favourite switch is the Cherry MX Blue because it provides a good compromise of audio and tactile feedback, but I find Cherry MX Brown to be the one on which I can type forever without my fingers getting tire.

All in all, I would say that the best keyboard for one is not necessarily the best keyboard for someone else.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: TacticalCoder on Tue, 17 January 2012, 09:49:23: Quote from: hashbaz;488410
Aww, I like the schdloing. It really puts the mechanical in mechanical keyboard.

I agree my explanation may not have been that great ; )

By that I mean that the M still sounds *great*. It's still very loud. It's still giving that psycho-acoustic feedback or whatever that is.

But the the resonating noise that can be heard (mostly after you release a key and lift your finger of it) is gone.

Once the "floss mod" is done I find the feeling to be one even higher quality and it's still as pingy as before. It's just the noisy resonance that is gone : )
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: wcass on Tue, 17 January 2012, 14:44:40: Quote from: poxeclipse;492369
Looks like you cut a full size M to make this SSK. Was it hard ?

not really hard, but a little time consuming. i actually started with a 122 key terminal M - so i have all the function keys, navigation keys (and even dedicated multi-media keys on the left). my mouse can get right up against the enter key.

the tough part is the controller. i have done the design work and got the parts for a Aikon based replacemnt, but have not made the PCB yet.
Title: Back to the Model M!
Post by: Deverica Wolf on Tue, 17 January 2012, 18:06:23: I happen to love the Blues coming from Buckling Springs. I don't think one is better than the other.