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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: HugeProblem on Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:13:14

Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: HugeProblem on Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:13:14
I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet, so I will start a topic / ask a question.

I have hypermobile syndrome, which means that I'm basically double jointed in all of my joints, this has lead to chronic pain throughout my body, but especially in my hands and wrists.

I've always enjoyed gaming and I type a fair amount; but things as simple as pressing the shift button to crouch in an FPS can become very painful very quickly.

I'm looking at a mechanical keyboard but I honestly don't know what I should be looking for to purchase to avoid the pain that comes with using a keyboard.

The only thing that I can think would be important for me is for when a key is pressed down, for it to take very little effort to keep the key pressed down. Repetitive keystrokes become unbearable after just a few minutes, like, say playing a rogue in WoW. So I'm guessing a key with very little force to press is important too.

Anyone with carpal tunnel, or arthritis settle on a keyboard that keeps the pain away longer? I'd love any input.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: F u r u y á on Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:22:27
I don't have CTS (so this is just a suggestion) but I think you need those super ergonomic keyboards, like Kinesis with MX Red switches (very light) and O'Rings (for soft landing).
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: ITzNybble on Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:26:40
Anyone tried gaming with Data Hands? taht would be the best if there descent for gaming
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: trax on Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:35:54
Quote from: curro123083;498963
Anyone tried gaming with Data Hands? taht would be the best if there descent for gaming

Impossible for games that require a mouse, no?
Or just use 1 datahand?

@OP - Cherry MX Red are the lightest switches, I dont even feel them.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Supertoaster on Wed, 25 January 2012, 16:59:15
You will want Cherry MX Reds. They are very light :)

I do not know of any ergonomic keyboards that use them, unfortunately :(
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: rodya on Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:03:31
Quote from: F u r u y á;498959
I don't have CTS (so this is just a suggestion) but I think you need those super ergonomic keyboards, like Kinesis with MX Red switches (very light) and O'Rings (for soft landing).

I don't have CTS either, but MX Reds would definitely be the switch, and you shouldn't bottom out but in case you do 40a o-rings would be good to soften the landing.

Just saw this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826100006) on newegg.  Not as good as keyboard/mouse for gaming, but maybe something like that could take the load off your hands.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: HugeProblem on Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:12:00
Thanks for all the replies!

Rodya, I had no idea such a thing existed, sounds like something from The Minority Report to me. For $99 the reviews make it sound like it's still needing to be improved, but has potential.

About ergonomic: for me I don't really like ergonomic, it puts my wrists at weird angles, and an ergonomic mechanical keyboard will be spendy, too.
The main provider of pain for me is pressing keys repeatedly, and holding a key with my pinky finger. So MX Cherry is what it sounds like I'd want. How are those to hold down though, do they like to spring back up?
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: fossala on Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:15:24
Depending on the MX switch the have different force spings so will spring back differently. I would try MX browns or reds if you have joint problems as they are the lightest.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: F u r u y á on Wed, 25 January 2012, 17:17:52
Quote from: HugeProblem;498998
do they like to spring back up?

You mean a high opposite force against your fingers? In case of Cherry MX Red, no. They're very light, some people hate it because of that. But I love it, I can type very quickly, lightly and effortlessly with it. And they're very good for gaming as well.

You can take a look at Leopold with MX Red at elitekeyboards (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold,tenkeyless) (they have fullsized (http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=leopold#fullsize) as well). Other options are Rosewill, Filco, CM Storm Quick Fire Rapid, KBC Poker, Nopoo, Ducky, etc... if I recall correctly all of them have a version with Red switches.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: GeorgeStorm on Wed, 25 January 2012, 19:56:47
I'd also recommend reds, take very little force to press down.
I sometimes wonder why the webpage I'm viewing suddenly goes crazy, and it's because I'm holding down tab without even realising it.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Barn on Wed, 25 January 2012, 20:18:05
I would recommend Cherry MX Reds. If you find it hard to justify paying a lot of $ for a board you could always pick up one of these from WASD, it's $2 and you can see if Reds are for you. http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1/cherry-mx-red-keyswitch-mx1a-l1nn.html
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Playtrumpet on Wed, 25 January 2012, 20:18:53
Reds, yes. But you could also search for a 30g uniform Topre board. May want to ask around about that. It'll obviously cost you much more than a Cherry MX board.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Tony on Thu, 26 January 2012, 02:25:38
Reds. You will barely feel the keys.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: pyro on Thu, 26 January 2012, 10:50:53
Remapping Shift to Capslock might also help.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Stone on Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:22:09
Hello! I also have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome hypermobility type (aka hypermobility syndrome) so I should be able to give you a fairly accurate answer :)

Personally I use a Datahand for typing (and I'm using it to write this!). Yes, they are incredibly expensive - and Datahand don't have any for sale at the moment - but you won't find a more comfortable keyboard. The keys are incredibly low-force (~10g) and arranged in a very comfy format that lets you rest your hands on the squidgy rubber pads in between keystrokes. This takes all the strain off your wrists - you'll find it difficult to find a conventional keyboard that lets you do this because the basic design underlying them all is so horrible. The key layout takes a little getting used to, took me 2-3 months to get back up to near my old speed of 50+ wpm but I can keep this up all day every day without making my hand pain any worse. I have had a lot of reconstructive surgery to the tendons in my hands so they are very sensitive to holding an ergonomically incorrect position, but I can only describe the Datahand's levels of comfort as magical. It's been my main keyboard for nearly 5 years now and I can't imagine working without it. On a standard flat keyboard I'm in pain within 5 minutes.

I would say the Kinesis Advantage and Maltron keyboards (with Cherry MX reds) are the most sensible alternatives if you can't find / afford a Datahand. Whatever you do don't get a Goldtouch, they're awful!

You could use a Datahand for gaming (with only the left hand, obviously) but you would need some key remapping. WASD would be very uncomfortable to use, I would probably use something like RDFS. Alternatively you could try a Belkin Nostromo n52 just for games:
(http://www.belkin.com/images/product/F8GFPC200/FUL1_F8GFPC200.jpg)

They're cheap as chips so you could just grab one off eBay and see if you like it :)

I also use an Evoluent VerticalMouse and a Griffin Powermate configured as a scroll wheel - the most important thing is to make sure you try different devices until you find something that you find comfortable! If you need a new keyboard for work you may be able to get help from Access to Work (link (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/DisabledPeople/Employmentsupport/WorkSchemesAndProgrammes/DG_4000347)) - they paid for my Datahand so I was obviously very happy with them!

Hope that helps :)

Stone
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: killazys on Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:27:01
Why not try a scissor switch? Something like the Logitech illuminated.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: kps on Fri, 23 March 2012, 08:46:17
Would you be able to use a foot switch for keys that need to be held down?
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Squelos on Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:06:44
Quote from: kps;554562
Would you be able to use a foot switch for keys that need to be held down?

ROFL. Best idea ever.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Playtrumpet on Fri, 23 March 2012, 09:35:04
Quote from: Squelos;554579
ROFL. Best idea ever.


More common than you think.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45378[/ATTACH]
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Shogunner on Fri, 23 March 2012, 10:06:07
CTS sucks, I had it in my left hand starting at 17. :(

I just wear one of those splint braces, worked as a nifty wrist rest (my keyboard is near the edge of my desk) and didn't impair my typing skills. I type on blues btw.

Try out one of these maybe, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RZHPOM/ref=oh_o00_s00_i00_details, then move onto a higher quality one if you stick with it.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: hoggy on Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:02:22
I agree with the datahand suggestion.

There's another option
http://www.fentek-ind.com/split_magic.htm

[ATTACH=CONFIG]45417[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]45418[/ATTACH]
20 grams of force and it's a steal at the price of $89.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: hoggy on Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:04:22
Tim Tyler needs a mention
http://www.mykeyboard.co.uk/
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: captain on Fri, 23 March 2012, 14:08:48
"Doc, when I FPS for hours on end after a long day of typing, my hands hurt!  What should I do???"

"Stop doing that." :-P

That said, you might try the lightest switches you can find, and learn to control your fingers -- don't bottom out, and keep your fingers curved like a good pianist. Use the tips, not the pads.

Doesn't Topre make a 30g switch?
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: hoggy on Sat, 24 March 2012, 01:19:46
You could also look at autohotkey or macro express.


Another keyboard to hunt for is the touchstream
[ATTACH=CONFIG]45503[/ATTACH]
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Squelos on Sat, 24 March 2012, 16:40:46
Use an ipad. Seems like a legit proposal :P
Dont break your fingers on the screen thought.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat, 24 March 2012, 19:38:21
Apple Aluminum Bluetooth Keyboard might actually be a good fit for you. It has extremely shallow keys set on scissor switches, very easy to press.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: GODJOEY on Sat, 24 March 2012, 19:51:23
Really like the  cherry mx red switches.
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: MKB on Sun, 25 March 2012, 01:44:08
If you have sore wrists I would stay away from games or use a foot pedal...

It really depends how heavy you are on the keys...  Red is to light for me...
Title: Keyboard for Weak Hands
Post by: Exort on Sun, 25 March 2012, 02:12:07
Full board of topre 30g can't get lighter than that.
Too bad they doesn't make such a keyboard with only that switch.