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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: lorem3k on Fri, 27 January 2012, 01:08:03

Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Fri, 27 January 2012, 01:08:03: Hey geekhack,

I used to think people were crazy for spending more than $20 on keyboards. A few days ago, I got the chance to type on a mechanical keyboard myself (an Apple Extended Keyboard II, M3501, with ALPS non-click tactile according to the wiki) and it blew me away how much better it felt than my rubber domes, so now I'm looking to get one for myself.

First of all, what Cherry MX switch feels the most similar to the ALPS that I used? I'm assuming Browns or Clears (I couldn't find the actuation force of the ALPS switches anywhere, so I don't know which is closer) because they're marketed as tactile bump, but I could be wrong.

Next, what keyboard would be the best for me? I'm looking for a compact layout. I'm mainly considering the KBC Poker or the Noppoo Choc Mini, due to their nice layouts. I like the Poker's layout a bit more, but I'm not so sure about the build quality on it compared to the Choc's, with the PCB-mounted keys making it more susceptible to spills or damage, and I've read some people complain about the case being flimsy/wobbly. Is the difference in build that big between the two? I also like that the Choc has media controls on QWEASD, but I don't like the position of the Choc's Fn key compared to the Poker's (one key between the Choc's and the spacebar, Poker's directly next to the spacebar) as it's harder to reach with my thumb.

What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: dippingriz on Fri, 27 January 2012, 01:14:55: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Geekhack+Mechanical+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: dippingriz on Fri, 27 January 2012, 01:20:10: Quote from: lorem3k;500369
Hey geekhack,

First of all, what Cherry MX switch feels the most similar to the ALPS that I used? I'm assuming Browns or Clears (I couldn't find the actuation force of the ALPS switches anywhere, so I don't know which is closer) because they're marketed as tactile bump, but I could be wrong.

Next, what keyboard would be the best for me? I'm looking for a compact layout. I'm mainly considering the KBC Poker or the Noppoo Choc Mini, due to their nice layouts. I like the Poker's layout a bit more, but I'm not so sure about the build quality on it compared to the Choc's, with the PCB-mounted keys making it more susceptible to spills or damage, and I've read some people complain about the case being flimsy/wobbly. Is the difference in build that big between the two? I also like that the Choc has media controls on QWEASD, but I don't like the position of the Choc's Fn key compared to the Poker's (one key between the Choc's and the spacebar, Poker's directly next to the spacebar) as it's harder to reach with my thumb.
What do you guys think? Thanks in advance.

Browns, Poker. Don't drink liquids or shart near your keyboard. McRip effect on flimsy/wobbly. It's a keyboard, not a sport car.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: fossala on Fri, 27 January 2012, 01:32:16: I found the poker to feel cheap and the keys didn't feel even. I ended up selling it for them reasons.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: hasu on Fri, 27 January 2012, 02:42:20: I have an AEK2 and like it too. I think MX Brown is close. (though I have only brown and red.)

I don't recommend Poker unless your priority is its compactness or layout.
Good point of Poker is not quality/feeling of keys, though it still is way better than most rubber domes.
I have two Poker(red/brown) but don't know about choc mini.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: FinancialWar on Fri, 27 January 2012, 02:48:59: what ever you do, avoid Ducky keyboard because it sucks.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: Tony on Fri, 27 January 2012, 04:46:51: There is no best or ideal keyboard. You can start collect them if you wish, but you can always find fault with them. It's human nature.

For starters, brown switch and Noppoo keyboard are good.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: GeorgeStorm on Fri, 27 January 2012, 06:30:36: As others have said, a keyboard is a personal thing, one mans treasure is another mans rubbish and all that.

I got a Ducky for my first and loved it, so don't take FinancialWar's comment as absolute fact.

Currently use a poker with ghetto reds, and am really liking it, makes my filco TKL look weirdly big :P
Have used a Noppoo Choc Mini with browns, and it's nice, go for the one model if you can, since the keycaps are far nicer (are nicer than any other stock keycaps I've had, far thicker)

In the end, try to pick one up 2nd hand, that means if you don't like it, you can sell it on and won't lose much monies.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: FinancialWar on Fri, 27 January 2012, 06:58:35: georgestorm, how do you find the Choc Mini compared with the Filco and the Ducky?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: GeorgeStorm on Fri, 27 January 2012, 07:14:45: They keycaps are really nice on it (I had the white model) probably twice as thick as either of them.

Both the Filco and the Ducky are blues, whereas the noppoo had browns.
Reason I got rid of it was because I needed money more than anything, and I'm infact tempted to get another, or possibly the race.

There's no doubt the noppoo with browns would be a good first keyboard :)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 27 January 2012, 12:33:31: I recommend the Poker. I have no complaints about its quality at all, but... I replaced the stock keycaps on both of mine with nicer doubleshots now. Still the stock abs pad print caps are good quality for that type. I've seen more complaints from those with the PBT about the legends wearing off. I experience no flex, or wobble but I don't pound on the keyboard like a psychotic orangutan. It stays put just fine with nice grippy feet on my desk and is not too light to go sliding. All the switch on both mine are perfectly aligned and even. It has a 100% standard ANSI physical key layout making aftermarket keycaps a lot easier. PCB mount is another plus, not con in my book, as it makes it super easy to mod switches. The only thing plate mount is good for in my opinion is making the keyboard heavier.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sat, 28 January 2012, 16:22:13: Thanks for the help guys, I think I'm going to go with the Poker. Does anybody know if WASD keycaps will fit on the Poker, or any other inexpensive, unprinted white keycaps?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: Rumudiez on Sat, 28 January 2012, 16:42:40: most people seem to be complaining about keycap quality instead of board quality. when i look at keyboards, i assume i'm buying new keycaps within a year for it... but that might just be me hehehe

anyway, on vendio and i think a source on ebay you can buy poker's with lasered PBT keycaps, so don't let that hold you down. poker ftw!
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: Rumudiez on Sat, 28 January 2012, 16:43:51: Quote from: lorem3k;501827
Thanks for the help guys, I think I'm going to go with the Poker. Does anybody know if WASD keycaps will fit on the Poker, or any other inexpensive, unprinted white keycaps?

yes, they should. that's the advantage of the poker and pure over the race; key cap compatibility. of course, if anyone who actually owns a poker has input.... take his
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 28 January 2012, 16:50:46: Yes, it is 100%. There was some mention of a WASD special price 61 key set once, might check before order bigger set, since you don't need the rest.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sat, 28 January 2012, 17:21:30: Quote from: Rumudiez;501849
most people seem to be complaining about keycap quality instead of board quality. when i look at keyboards, i assume i'm buying new keycaps within a year for it... but that might just be me hehehe

anyway, on vendio and i think a source on ebay you can buy poker's with lasered PBT keycaps, so don't let that hold you down. poker ftw!
I'd rather spend like $10 more and get the ABS Poker + some other keycaps because frankly the stock PBT caps are fugly. Does anyone know if the engraved white 37-set on vendio (http://www.vendio.com/stores/E-sports-Gaming-equipments/item/pbt-key-caps/37-pbt-white-engraved-key-caps/lid=18974436) actually has the ugly script font pictured? The page says "please note the lettering was changed" but I'm not sure if it was changed to or from the pictured lettering.

Quote from: lysol;501856
Yes, it is 100%. There was some mention of a WASD special price 61 key set once, might check before order bigger set, since you don't need the rest.
The thread about it in the WASDkeyboards subforum doesn't seem to mention them actually planning on selling it.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: jkercado on Sat, 28 January 2012, 22:13:25: I love Cherry G84's, but then, I'm weird like that.

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll236/jkercado/temporary-32.jpg)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sat, 28 January 2012, 22:40:05: I don't really like the way the layout of that one looks with regards to the location of the Fn key and the reduced size of some modifiers and the space bar. I'm also not a big fan of stepped keys, especially when the raised part is centered rather than off to one side of the key (and even when it isn't centered I don't like anything except capslock to have it). I prefer to have all the keys standard size with some keys relegated to a second layer, so that it doesn't take any getting used to (I've been touch typing on ANSI layout boards since age 6, not a big fan of change :tinfoil3:)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: HeavyArms on Sat, 28 January 2012, 22:45:22: Why has no one even suggested Filco?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sat, 28 January 2012, 23:03:51: Quote from: HeavyArms;502075
Why has no one even suggested Filco?
Because I'm looking for a compact board. If I just wanted a TKL I would've gotten a Leopold (which is designed by the same guy as the Filcos IIRC)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: HeavyArms on Sun, 29 January 2012, 00:18:10: HHKB?

Quote from: lorem3k;502084
Because I'm looking for a compact board. If I just wanted a TKL I would've gotten a Leopold (which is designed by the same guy as the Filcos IIRC)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sun, 29 January 2012, 00:36:01: Can't afford an HH and I'm not sure if I like the layout (hard-to-reach Fn key and delete instead of backspace)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: ChocolateRain on Sun, 29 January 2012, 00:50:56: ducky 1087xm?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: reaper on Sun, 29 January 2012, 01:14:11: Quote from: fossala;500378
I found the poker to feel cheap and the keys didn't feel even. I ended up selling it for them reasons.

You probably got a bad one. I have two and neither of them feel uneven. Also after adding the aluminum case, it doesn't feel cheap anymore. lol

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/key%20caps/th_DSC06826.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/key%20caps/DSC06826.jpg)

Quote from: jkercado;502052
I love Cherry G84's, but then, I'm weird like that.

You're not alone.... but then again, I only own one. =D

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/th_DSC04895.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/DSC04895.jpg)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: seferphier on Sun, 29 January 2012, 01:53:56: Quote from: reaper;502156
You probably got a bad one. I have two and neither of them feel uneven. Also after adding the aluminum case, it doesn't feel cheap anymore. lol

Show Image
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/key%20caps/th_DSC06826.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/key%20caps/DSC06826.jpg)

Can you replace poker with just standard keycaps? or is the layout different in some way?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: reaper on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:16:30: Quote from: seferphier;502174
Can you replace poker with just standard keycaps? or is the layout different in some way?

Yes, you can. Filco, Ducky, Leopold (with the exception of the spacebar) keycaps will fit on a Poker. That's the beauty of it.

Btw, welcome to GeekHack! =)
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: fossala on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:19:26: Quote from: lorem3k;502139
Can't afford an HH and I'm not sure if I like the layout (hard-to-reach Fn key and delete instead of backspace)

There is a dip switch change the function around, thats what I do. Then use "fn + ~" for del.
Quote from: reaper;502156
Also after adding the aluminum case, it doesn't feel cheap anymore. lol

At the price of the case it better not!!
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:22:05: Quote from: reaper;502156
You probably got a bad one. I have two and neither of them feel uneven. Also after adding the aluminum case, it doesn't feel cheap anymore. lol
Show Image
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/key%20caps/th_DSC06826.jpg) (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y146/eddie84/OCN/Mech%20keyboard%20club/key%20caps/DSC06826.jpg)

Looks sexy, what keycaps are those (except the ~/esc key, looks kinda tacky IMO)? And how much was the aluminum case, and can it still be bought?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: fossala on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:24:17: The key caps are imasto's thick dysubs (over $100) and the case is not for sale anymore as it was only a limited run, I think they cost over $200 but I could be wrong.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: reaper on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:29:39: Quote from: lorem3k;502190
the ~/esc key, looks kinda tacky IMO

Then tacky is my middlename. =D

Quote from: fossala;502192
The key caps are imasto's thick dysubs (over $100) and the case is not for sale anymore as it was only a limited run, I think they cost over $200 but I could be wrong.

$174 shipped to be exact (all the way from China via FedEx).
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:30:55: Damn! Guess that's not for me. I guess I'll go with WASD light grey (their white keycap sets are backordered) caps
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: fossala on Sun, 29 January 2012, 02:31:56: Quote from: reaper;502194
Then tacky is my middlename. =D

$174 shipped to be exact (all the way from China via FedEx).

That has got to be one of the most expensive pokers around.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: seferphier on Sun, 29 January 2012, 05:32:04: Quote from: reaper;502186
Yes, you can. Filco, Ducky, Leopold (with the exception of the spacebar) keycaps will fit on a Poker. That's the beauty of it.

Btw, welcome to GeekHack! =)

thanks. i have been browsing this forum for a while though.

been thinking about getting a poker, race or wait for pure...
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: seferphier on Sun, 29 January 2012, 05:33:27: Quote from: reaper;502194
Then tacky is my middlename. =D

$174 shipped to be exact (all the way from China via FedEx).

does that include the metal case and the key caps? otherwise... $174 is very expensive... i can order directly from TaoBao because I understand Chinese..
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: Tony on Sun, 29 January 2012, 08:12:21: I have two Noppoo Choc minis and find them fine for typing.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Sun, 29 January 2012, 19:20:50: How terrible are the Cherry stabilizers on the Leopold boards? I've been using an AHK script to emulate the Poker's layout and now I'm having second thoughts about getting a keyboard with an Fn key. Will I notice it if I haven't tried a board with the "good" style of stabilizers?

Is it McRip effect?
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: rustybarnacle on Tue, 31 January 2012, 12:52:33: I own a noppoo choc mini w/browns. It's my favorite board evar. It also looks like a cheap POS. The printing on the keys is totally uneven, and there is even a misprint on one of the keys. But nothing beats it feel wise - i believe my keycaps are POM, and they're about 2/3 as tall as most cherry keycaps i've seen. Beautiful feel. I'm on the edge of picking up a poker just so i can make the comparison, but the noppoo is a beautiful thing.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: alaricljs on Tue, 31 January 2012, 12:56:17: Cherry stabilizers effect the feel of a key. Costar's may have an effect but it's so minimal that it's unnoticeable. It doesn't matter if you've tried a board with Costars, all you need to do is type on keys without stabilizers and compare them to the Cherry stabilized keys, that is basically the difference between Cherry and Costar.
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: lorem3k on Tue, 31 January 2012, 22:08:11: Well, I just ordered the Leopold TKL. I guess I'll see about the stabs in about a week
Title: First mechanical keyboard - KBC Poker, Noppoo Choc Mini, something else?
Post by: vrapan on Fri, 27 April 2012, 12:28:16: Quote from: rustybarnacle;504363
I own a noppoo choc mini w/browns. It's my favorite board evar. It also looks like a cheap POS. The printing on the keys is totally uneven, and there is even a misprint on one of the keys. But nothing beats it feel wise - i believe my keycaps are POM, and they're about 2/3 as tall as most cherry keycaps i've seen. Beautiful feel. I'm on the edge of picking up a poker just so i can make the comparison, but the noppoo is a beautiful thing.

Exactly! Got my brown one today and it is exactly like that save for the uneven lettering. Mine look fine.... Maybe I am not nit picking enough (give it time and I will probably).

However it feels so nice to type on it, the keys are not too smooth not too rough just right, the noise not too loud not to muffled assertive yet comfortable. Size is perfect too, saving enough space on the desk and take it back and forth from work while not being able to lose it under the total mess that my desks are. Everybody at work today commented on how nice it looks and feels to type on it compared to our mushy boring generic HP keyboards! Well worth every single penny as far as I am concerned.

If I had any niggles, the spacebar does squeek a bit so the stabiliser is not that brilliant but it is not horrible either. Also it is not the ISO version (I should have checked or bought it from qtan) so the size of the Enter is a bit small but I simply do not care, I am getting used to it already.

I am definitely looking for a red filco for games though and a red poker for my travelling typing keyboard.