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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ajx on Sun, 19 February 2012, 23:23:28

Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Sun, 19 February 2012, 23:23:28: Hi, i am currently using a mechanical keyboard with red switch and i have been highly surprised by its lightness
however, its still annoying to having a little double tap issue while i m playing some fps
i get use to move quickly that means i m pushing keys frenetically and sometimes i dont even notice i ve pushed twice same key due to the lightness of red switch
the lightness of switch and the way of my gamestyle make me to do alot of non desired double tap
so i am thinking about black switch which it seems to be heavier
may it help me to avoid double tap little bit more then red?
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 20 February 2012, 01:22:03: I'm using browns for typing and FPS, the best of both worlds

However, I am considering getting red/blacks when I get more money
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: jwaz on Mon, 20 February 2012, 01:24:27: HHKB
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: quake4mhg on Mon, 20 February 2012, 01:27:09: I have the same problem when the first week using my mx red, but not for game but for typing.
Currently I'm playing MW3, BF3, Arma2:OA.
I don't have a black, but I think what you're thinking is right. keypress heavier avoid double taps.
Which fps games you're playing? Need double tap alot?
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: furry_angina on Mon, 20 February 2012, 02:05:27: I would go with a Black switch if you're having those 'sensitivity' problems with the Reds. You should try out Steelseries 6gv2 and return to store if you don't like it.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ryuhyoko on Mon, 20 February 2012, 02:45:32: The black switch is at the far end of that spectrum though. Blue then brown are in between. I like my browns for an all-around keyboard.. and i hope to buy that white leopold with blues soon..:dance:
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: Bertross on Mon, 20 February 2012, 03:02:08: i stay away from blacks with as much effort as possible. I would use browns in this case. you can feel the bump and know when you are double tapping. Im going from blues to browns for my gaming Mech as i wanted TKL and a lot more quieter. Reds are awesome for work though.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: BiNiaRiS on Mon, 20 February 2012, 03:29:32: i can't stand blacks for gaming cause i like to talk **** when i play counter strike so lots of chatting :)

that being said i've gamed on red, blues, browns, and ergo clears and liked them all. i'd choose reds though in the end with browns a close second.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: seferphier on Mon, 20 February 2012, 05:42:23: Quote from: quake4mhg;519385
I have the same problem when the first week using my mx red, but not for game but for typing.
Currently I'm playing MW3, BF3, Arma2:OA.
I don't have a black, but I think what you're thinking is right. keypress heavier avoid double taps.
Which fps games you're playing? Need double tap alot?

gunz. lol
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: boredgunner on Mon, 20 February 2012, 11:35:38: Quote from: furry_angina;519405
I would go with a Black switch if you're having those 'sensitivity' problems with the Reds.

This. Others have recommended trying blues or browns instead, which is a fine idea if you think you wouldn't mind having tactile switches. If you want to stick with linear, try blacks.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: shogrran on Mon, 20 February 2012, 11:55:12: Its a matter of personal preference my friend.

I would prefer gaming in fps using mx reds. Why? Just because I like soft touch switches. It is just the way I play.

I am not a master of games but I just make it a point to train myself not to be frantic with the keyboard. I also train myself not to over press or slam on the keys. Remember... unless your keyboard is a motion sensing device, a key press is just a simple key press. It doesn't matter how hard you slam the key. The key will register once the contact points inside it connects. It also doesn't matter how hard you press the key down. With this reasoning in mind I practice not to press the keys so hard - this is beneficial since my fingers do not get tired as fast as if I will be pressing the keys harder. -- mind you, you may not notice it but the muscles involved in moving your fingers can sustain multiple key presses... but they get tired really fast. Try typing at 90wpm for a prolonged period of time and you'll notice you won't be as accurate in the end as you were in the start.

With all that said, that is the reason why I'll go for a softer keyboard than the tougher blacks. The blacks will tire my fingers faster. But who knows? Maybe you have bigger hands and fingers? Maybe the sheer weight of your finger resting on top of a red switch is enough to actuate it? It really depends upon you.

Best thing to do is find a friend that has an mxblack board and try it out.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: quake4mhg on Mon, 20 February 2012, 13:08:34: Love to see so many gamers in here :cheer2:
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: FKSSR on Mon, 20 February 2012, 15:01:24: I agree with what seems to be the consensus here:

- Reds are my favorite, since they are light and allow subtle and quick key presses.
- Black switches are very stiff, and I personally don't think they should be used for keyboards except as "special order" cases since most people do not like them. I think that most people using Black switches would probably like Red switches more if they tried them.
- I think Brown switches could do what you want by giving you a nice, light switch but give tactile bump to avoid accidental double-presses.

And two more:
- Black ALPS is another alternative to Brown switches. I like my ABS M1 more than my Filco Browns for gaming. However, I'm using a Quickfire Rapid with Reds now.
- I personally would not use Blues for gaming, since the click would annoy me while trying to listen to in-game audio, but that's my opinion...
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Mon, 20 February 2012, 15:41:15: Quote from: quake4mhg;519385
I have the same problem when the first week using my mx red, but not for game but for typing.
Currently I'm playing MW3, BF3, Arma2:OA.
I don't have a black, but I think what you're thinking is right. keypress heavier avoid double taps.
Which fps games you're playing? Need double tap alot?
Unreal Tournament, the only game i ve double tappe issue
Such nervous fps and requires a double tap as move
actually i tried both brown and blue, its even worse than red
but a lil double tap which i d rather avoid it from moving
i ordered a black mechanical keyboard at amazon to try-out, i will return it back if it doesnt suit me
i heard about same lil issue for some rts, however i would warn anyone who reads my thread, red switch is quite nice to me and it runs good for most of fps, unfortunetaly i got such game that doesnt suit to the lightness of red.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: RiGS on Mon, 20 February 2012, 15:54:56: I'm sure you will like it. I know that I like blacks more than reds, though the blacks in my steelseries are lighter than 60g.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Mon, 20 February 2012, 15:57:10: i ask if anyone knows
on my keyboard (red mx), its abs keycaps
i bought once a set of PBT and they are stickier than abs and personaly my preference goes to abs, more quicker, more ligfhter and less stiffer
red mx + PBT keycaps (stickier) does it look like black mx feeling?
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: RiGS on Mon, 20 February 2012, 15:58:08: What do you mean by stickier?
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Mon, 20 February 2012, 16:16:53: heavier?
as if i need more strenght to push keys
PBT are 18% heavier than ABS
then can i conclude the actual force needed should be 55 cN
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: RiGS on Mon, 20 February 2012, 16:21:47: Heavier keycaps slightly reduce the force needed to actuate the switch. It is similar like putting a coin at the top of the keycap.

For some strange reason the black switches in my Steelseries actuate around 56cN.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: eth0s on Mon, 20 February 2012, 16:32:09: Changing to PBT will NOT make your MX Red switches feel like blacks. You would need to change the springs inside the switches, which is too much of a PITA, if you ask me.

And as for gaming, IMO ABS keycaps feel better on your fingers than PBT. They feel "softer" to me. Of course, the downside is that ABS will wear out much more quickly than PBT. Even the arguably best PBT caps in the world, which are the standard ones on Realforce boards, don't feel as good to me for gaming as Cherry double-shot ABS caps do. So basically changing to PBT will prolong the life of your keycaps, but will not affect in any appreciable way, the feel of the red switches. The keyboard will "feel" different, of course after you change keycaps, but it won't feel different in the manner you are postulating.

From your original post, I would say you need a tactile bump to tell you when the key has actuated. I would therefore recommend MX Browns. If you think you need a really heavy switch with tactile bump, you'll need MX Clear, which is hard to find. I think Leopold makes an FC200-model with clears, but you'll have to find it somewhere on the internets, as it's note easily available at elitekeyboards.com. However, I can't see why you'd need such a heavy key switch. You can try blacks, of course, as there are plenty of options, but I don't think it will solve the problem that you mentioned in your OP. Blacks are just stiffer reds. So the same thing will happen with blacks, as it did with reds.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 20 February 2012, 17:01:49: Please see my subforum sticky (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25889-What-****ing-Cherry-MX-switch-should-I-use-for-gaming-typing) for what switches are best for fps.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: dimoniy on Mon, 20 February 2012, 19:16:15: I prefer reds
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: isp on Tue, 21 February 2012, 00:43:15: The only game I still play is a quake3 mod devoted to trickjumping and strafejumping called defrag. Never tried black switches...heard they are too firm. My dainty little fingers love the light actuation force of the reds.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Thu, 23 February 2012, 06:59:02: as expected, i d rather much these black switches for gaming, and it doesnt hurt my fingers while i am playing.
not much difference with red in game in my opinion, abit stiffer
obvisouly you cant really feel black pressure is around 60 cN unless you have both black and red keyboards and you will notice red is much lighter
however i got less double tap then before.
actually for typing, i dislike them, it looks more like classic ruber dome which we get used to type.
to sump up,

black
gaming ++++
typing +

red
gaming +++
typing +++

brown
gaming ++
typing ++++

its just an try-out, i will send it back at amazon, i think the best way is getting both keyboards, one for playing (black) one for typing (like mostly red or brown)
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: Inf3rn0_44 on Thu, 23 February 2012, 07:28:07: Blacks are good for gaming, however red's are better in the end. They are not nearly as stiff. Making the overall comfort and use better in the end.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Thu, 23 February 2012, 07:46:31: stiffer doesnt mean uncomfortable in game at least for me or people who press keys harder
but yes its definitively uncomfortable for typing
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: Typhaeon on Thu, 23 February 2012, 07:58:43: Judging by this thread, a keyboard should be the least of your concerns in becoming a better typist.

No sliding scale of pluses for blues?
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: Reason on Thu, 23 February 2012, 12:22:47: I personally dont think blacks are good for gaming... they were waaaaaaaaaay too heavy for my liking and games that require rapid presses made it feel like i was just smoshing keys together and made my presses inaccurate.
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: ajx on Thu, 23 February 2012, 16:06:21: Quote from: Typhaeon;522981
Judging by this thread, a keyboard should be the least of your concerns in becoming a better typist.

No sliding scale of pluses for blues?
i would choose them over the other switches with the intention of typing mostly.
i do not dislike any switch, i want to find the most appropriate switch depending on which use i am going for
in my case, gaming takes my free-time more than typing (i aint a coder or writter, just some ramdom guy)
Title: red or black switch for fps?
Post by: WiL11o6 on Thu, 23 February 2012, 16:36:31: I have tried blacks, browns, reds, and blues and I play BF3 quite frequently so here are MY OWN opinions.

Blacks:
If all you do is 100% FPS, this is the switch for you. The added pressure in each key press makes the game a little more enjoyable. It is hard to explain, but it feels nice to run around the map with the added pressure because it feels like each key stroke is crucial to your survival because you can feel every key stroke register with your character while you run around. For typing though, it's another story. My fingers would get fatigue after typing a paragraph. I type at a steady 80wpm so my fingers get tired fairly quickly typing on the blacks.

Reds:
This is a little bit too light for FPS in my book. It feels nice, but it's so light sometimes I would be running in a straight line, suddenly start running sideways and I'm like, "Why am I running sideways?" I then notice I have my finger pressed down on "A". I was just resting my finger on the key, but it's so light I didn't even know I was pressing down on it. Because it's so light, typing was a much more pleasant experience because I get no finger fatigue. I play a little SC2 as well, and I would vote reds over blacks for RTS games since building with hotkeys are easier to press down on.

Browns:
This was my first switch I ever bought. Did not like it. It has half the tactility of blues, and half linear so it just felt weird. I'd rather type and game on a rubber dome if I was forced to pay $100 for a brown switch. It felt mushy and I don't know, weird. Again, this is my opinion.

Blues:
This is my favorite of them all. It's such a joy typing on this keyboard as the tactility gives me great feedback while I type whereas the reds were too boring for typing. If strictly FPS gaming, again 100%, I would get blacks because of the reasons stated above. But since blues have a nice tactile feeling, it feels nice while I play BF3 as well. I do 50% gaming and 50% web/chatting so this is my favorite keyboard. The only gripe is that this thing is pretty loud. If you are typing on it, you'd get used to it but if you have a wife or a significant other that uses your computer or is around you, they would get annoyed fairly quickly.

These are my own opinions and you would need to try them before you know what you really want. Blues were the last switch I tried and it is my favorite one.