geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Dangerzone on Sun, 04 March 2012, 04:20:06
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After lurking here for month or two now, I've got this horrible urge to buy a topre keyboard. Now, never having tried a topre, this is an entirely blind purchase and I'm getting all sorts of pre-purchase jitters. I figured I should make a thread before I actaully buy the keyboard in case there is something obvious I missed.
From searching around, there doesn't really seem to be a lot of options as far as buying a topre keyboard goes. From what I've read and what I know of my own preferences, I know is that I want a not white keyboard with all 55g weighting and not a hhkb, which really leaves me at the single choice of the Realforce 103UB 55g from elitekeyboards. Did I miss anything or is there something else I could actaully find for purchase/in-stock that fits the above criteria?
I'll freely admit my want for one of these is based on absolutely nothing at all. It is entirely possible I will order this keyboard and then decide I don't like how topre switches feel. It is too late for me now though, at some point I've decided I wanted it and the thought has managed to stick for at least a few months now. My knowledge of mechanical keyboards in the non theoretical sense is shamefully small, all I know is that I like cherry blacks (they keyboard I currently use and the one I've used longest), and I absolutely hate cherry blues (because the space between the activation point and the release point is too much, I prefer that space to be as small as possible). Past that, I don't know anything at all.
All that being said, Realforce 103UB 55g: y/n?
p.s: why does everyone here like tenkeyless? I don't get it.
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I can't say much about topre, never used.
As for TKL, I love smaller boards. Free up the desk, and your hands can be closer together while gaming (if thats what you do). Beside that.. Unless you're an accountant crunching numbers, a numpad is rather useless. It just seems more practical. Not to mention I like the look of them more. Mind you I prefer the look of the poker the most. Less is indeed more :)
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In regards to the TKL craze: I guess a lot of people just don't work with numbers. I can't imagine being without it, but I suppose if your computing consists of video games and facebook then it's probably just eating up real estate on your desk.
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I don't understand the TKL love, I use the numpad during all my netbanking which I do at least every second day, and I would imagine a lot of people netbank. Also at work running CAD programs I use the numpad inputting all coordinates, and any measurements, plus some excel reports on occasion.
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I don't understand the TKL love, I use the numpad during all my netbanking which I do at least every second day, and I would imagine a lot of people netbank. Also at work running CAD programs I use the numpad inputting all coordinates, and any measurements, plus some excel reports on occasion.
Well in your case the Numpad is kinda needed. I netbank as well but I've found that my TKL boards is just fine for that. Like Nunez said above... more space on the desk... better ergonomics. I don't work with numbers and only used my numpad here and there so adjusting to a TKL was easy for me. I really don't think it's a "craze" just didn't know about it before diving into mech'boards. Can't bring myself to use a full deck now... so much more comfortable using a TKL.
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I just can't really adapt to the number row for any dedicated number inputting. The only time I use the row is if I'm putting a number into the middle of a sentence and for my passwords (same thing really).
Mind I do wish I got one of them leopold TKL with clears. Using black switch mainly I'm finding the browns way too light, and the stupid fullsize leopold spacebar... :(, my engraved white PBT set is kind of useless at the moment.
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The spacebar on your full deck Leo will be the same as the TKL model... so you'd be running into the same annoyance... what wrong with it? Is the Cherry stabiliser getting to you?
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I've "made the switch" to TKL keyboard at home and at work (three computers for web development, database admin and general network and office admin) but sometimes miss the ten-key pad for entering numbers with one hand and I really used the Enter key on the numpad a lot because it's easy to find, bottom right corner. I also occasionally use Alt-Codes for special characters like the Trademark ™ or the occasional ☺. Trivial, but you need a ten-key pad to use them easily.
I recently got a Realforce 87U and just love the way the keys feel, smoother than MX browns or red, but still have a "tactile" feel, plus it has an embeded ten-key pad. Turn on num-lock and JKL become 123, UIO become 456 and 789 are still 789 and it sends true numpad Alt-Codes. ☺
If you like and/or have to have a numpad then the 103 seems the way to go. If you like the looks and extra desk space of a TKL and want to still have ten-key functions the 87U is a great keyboard.
If you happen to just not like the feel of the Topre keys you can always sell it here at a very small loss. They seem to hold their resale value very well.
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I just purchased this keyboard used from another member on the forum a few weeks ago. Right off the bat I had an impending feeling of doom because the keys felt WAY heavier then my filco cherry brown's, something to do with the high actuation force right off the bat. However before I bought it people said to wait a few weeks to get used to it, and in my case build finger muscles, and now I love it completely. When I was using cherry browns i didn't realize how loud it was, and coming back to the 'silent' topre really made me happy :D
I don't quite understand what you mean by "the space between the activation point and the release point is too much", but I don't think you can touch type with this keyboard, because of the high actuation force (which is why they made bottoming out feel nice).
Also, You can easily sell the board if it's not your thing after a few weeks (or months). I bought mine for $180 and I have a feeling that it has had many owners who just didn't quite like it enough. I just checked Elite keyboards and apparently the 103 is 30$ off, those bonuses.
People like tenkeyless because they don't have to put their mouse a few inches to the right whenever they go down to do some SERIOUS 30 minute typing spree's (or speed tests). For me that is such a minor hassle that it isn't worth the $80 premium Elite Keyboards charges.
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55g is an excellent choice. As far as the tenkeyless, it really all depends on what you do for a living. I am an IT consultant and work as both sysadmin(Windows/Linux) and netadmin(Cisco), and have to type in IP addresses a LOT. Having a number pad is very convenient for this, especially when troubleshooting network connectivity. However, purchasing a tenkeyless has allowed me to master the number row, and I can now type in IP addresses at about the same speed, and I don't have to move my hand over to the ten key. As an added bonus on the sysadmin side, I also have to frequently enter in passwords containing symbols from the number row, and memorizing the number row has helped me tremendously with not having to look down at my keyboard for password entry.
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Why don't you want a variable-force Realforce?
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i've tried all mechanical switches as well as variable 87u and 87u uniform 55g.
the uniform 55g is just awesome. + since you seem to like black switches, the heavier feeling of the 55g should not be a problem for you as it is for some.
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Why don't you want a variable-force Realforce?
Gaming, mostly. I'm pretty sure having the wasd keys being of different weight would drive me crazy. "the space between the activation point and the release point is too much"
When you press down on the key the point at which the key registers is the activation point and when you let go of the key the point at which the key as moved enough as to reset the activation point allowing you press it down again to register the key press. On blues there is a very noticeable, enough that I have to completely let go of the key in question in order to press it again whereas on the blacks I barely have to move my finger to repeat it. Thanks for the input everyone, I think I understand the TKL thing a little more now. That being said, I don't have particularly strong feelings about it one way or another. I would try the 87U but the only 55g available for purchase is in white and that would clash with basically every piece of hardware I own. I'm glad to hear that if it doesn't work out I can sell it for a decent resale value, that makes me a lot more reassured. I'll go ahead with my purchase of the 103UB from elitekeyboards.
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The spacebar on your full deck Leo will be the same as the TKL model... so you'd be running into the same annoyance... what wrong with it? Is the Cherry stabiliser getting to you?
The fullsize Leopolds have a different spacing of the stabilizer stems, it seems impossible to find a white spacebar for a fullsize leopold, let alone any replacement spacebar. I don't have one but I have heard the TKL Leopolds have different stabilizer stem spacings from the fullsize and are compatible with other spacebars around.
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The spacebar on your full deck Leo will be the same as the TKL model... so you'd be running into the same annoyance... what wrong with it? Is the Cherry stabiliser getting to you?
Didn't read it all, so someone may have already answered. Leopold TKL and Full size spacebars are different. My TKL fits qtans PBT spacebar and my mates fullsize doesn't.
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If you can afford it then I say just go ahead and grab one. After a few weeks, if it really doesn't suit you then you can always take $20 off and resell it in the classifieds here.
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number pad is based on what you use it for, i work in business so i have to work with numbers all day so i love the number pad. on a laptop i must have a seperate number pad so i cant use the tkl boards
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The fullsize Leopolds have a different spacing of the stabilizer stems, it seems impossible to find a white spacebar for a fullsize leopold, let alone any replacement spacebar. I don't have one but I have heard the TKL Leopolds have different stabilizer stem spacings from the fullsize and are compatible with other spacebars around.
Well logic would suggest that they would use the same keycap but I stand corrected. You learn something new everyday.... wonder why they would change the spacebar eventhough it's the same brand.
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No it wasn't... Guess we all have our off days once a while.
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[...] p.s: why does everyone here like tenkeyless? I don't get it.
When I first came here I wondered about that too. For me a keyboard wasn't really a keyboard without the Tenkey.
But the longer I'm surfing here, the more I really felt the need to get a TKL rising in me :D
Currently I don't have a TKL but I really want to get one.
Just think about how often you use the Tenkey... I really don't use it that often and I've already started to use the numrow for inputs where I usually used the Tenkey.
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Be careful because once you choose to go with reduced keyboards you won't be able to turn back :heh:
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Be careful because once you choose to go with reduced keyboards you won't be able to turn back :heh:
Speaking of your HHKB? :D
Well I already won't be able to turn back... it's in my mind now.
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The lack of the extra ten keys makes more sense ergonomically and looks so much nicer aesthetically. Unless you have a specific need for the keys I feel like there's no reason to have them. I use to think I would miss them but it was only after I converted that I realized how little I used them.
I highly recommend topres if you can sink the money into them. I only know a few people who don't like their topres after keeping them for a reasonable amount of time. I recommend the TKL version, and actually 45g uniform over 55g. Ive nnever tried 55g but I can't see anything heavier then the 45g to be comfortable. Its perfect.
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I really used the Enter key on the numpad a lot because it's easy to find, bottom right corner.
I still miss Apple's distinct return (start a new line) and enter (submit dialog box) keys.
I also occasionally use Alt-Codes for special characters like the Trademark ™ or the occasional ☺
Windows extended character entry became an obvious joke for me once I got a Mac and realised that you could enter all sorts of characters straight from trivial and easily memorisable key combos. In Windows I get most o these I get from John Sullivan's United Kingdom International (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~johns/kbukint.html) keyboard layout (not much use unless you're British), but the rest (including obvious omissions like em and en dash that he won't add) I make up with Autohotkey_L (http://www.autohotkey.com/). The Unicode builds of Autohotkey provide reliable Unicode entry such as ^!N::SendInput {U+2192} to make crtl-alt-N give "→". I've moved UK Int’l’s ™ to ctrl-alt-shift-M, to allow ctrl-alt-M to give −, a real minus sign, alongside ctrl-alt-Z ÷ and ctrl-alt-X ×. There truly is no excuse in the 21st century from still being limited to the symbols that they could fit onto a typewriter.
Alt-nnnn is for chumps. I don't like Mac OS X, but at least it provides a more palatable way to feed people Apple's superior thought processes than Mac OS 9, which pretty much anyone technical wrote off without ever spending enough time with to truly understand and appreciate. That includes native support across the board for extended character entry, that I'm simply copying in Windows (including some of the same key combos).
TL;DR:
Don't waste time using alt-nnnn codes, you idiots!
Also, Topre == buy if you can afford (true of any switch type though)