geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: ed_avis on Sun, 01 April 2012, 07:36:08
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I bought this Model F 122-key terminal keyboard on Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/380409472383 "Ibm 6110346 Model F Keyboard"
I knew that the terminal boards have an odd layout but look at this one!
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7140/6888470076_1ff9b0571e_o.jpg
The more you look the more WTF moments there are. Anyway, although some keys came loose in transit I was able to put them back (luckily none of the truly weird ones came off) and so the keyboard is physically in good condition, apart from the space bar.
The space bar on this terminal board is quite different from that on the XT and AT Model Fs. It is similar to the Model M space bar. It has a wire stabilizer attached at either side which hinges, and clips into two hooks on the board underneath. Except that it doesn't. The stabilizer is just a bit too big and too thick to fit, so when the keyboard was shipped the spacebar was just clipped in place like an ordinary key, with the stabilizer loose. If I try to force the stabilizer into its hooks the spacebar becomes very stiff and eventually leaps free from the keyboard. Pictures of the spacebar and the place where it goes:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/6888633838_509a77a4e1_o.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7179/7034744175_406bc95fc9_o.jpg
In fact, this spacebar appears identical to one from one of my Model Ms! Could it be that the keyboard lost its original spacebar and someone replaced it?
Finally, I am using Soarer's converter but it only works if I plug it in once the machine is up and running. It won't work to enter the BIOS setup, and if I reboot the machine with the converter and keyboard attached, I have to unplug and replug the converter. No output from hid_listen until I do so. Any suggestions? I built the coverter on a breadboard:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7178/7034700377_8ee71bfa51_o.jpg
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I'd post the question about Soarer's converter in Soarer's thread, along with details about your computer and its BIOS level.
As for the layout, you've got the Data Entry layout, sometimes also known as the 029 layout: http://deskthority.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1113
And, I'm wondering if someone transplanted a spacebar from another keyboard...
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Loving those keys!!! Especially the right shift!
F space bar has a thinner wire, so that one is most likely from an M, as you guessed.
I'm off out for a few hours, but I'll try and think of why it's being funny. Stick a post in my thread so we can discuss it there.
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The spacebar dilemma is frustrating. I have another F-122 that I would put into service if I had a spacebar.
I imagine 2 solutions, neither of which I have had the time or energy to try, yet, but do not see any reason not to ....
First, simply make a custom thinner wire to use with a standard M spacebar, which I have an extra copy. I see instructions for bending new Cherry stabilizers, could this be different?
Second, use epoxy and something like a paper clip to create a new hold-down bracket on the board, to accommodate the thicker M stabilizer wire.
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Well it is just a piece of wire, so the hardest part would be finding some of the right thickness, I think.
Another idea would be to file down the M wire so it fits the two hooks on the F. The tolerances aren't tight, and it wouldn't even need to be round - ending up with a roughly oval cross-section would probably work fine.
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Could somebody who has both a Model M and a Model F 122-key confirm that the only difference in the spacebar is the thickness of the wire stabilizer? I don't want to file it down and then find that it still doesn't fit.
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I've got both right in front of me... this is all based on eyeballing it, not measuring it...
The F stabilizer looks to be about half the diameter, maybe a touch bigger than that.
It's also mounted I'd guess 2 mm further towards the rear of the key, meaning that even after filing down an M stabilizer, it may well protrude too far to work with the F.
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Thanks bhtooefr. What I have here is an M spacebar with M stabilizer. So the question is how far away from the edge of the spacebar does the stabilizer go? Is that distance the same between F and M?
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At least, I think it's an M spacebar - have a look: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/6888633838_509a77a4e1_o.jpg
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Yes, that's an M spacebar. If you flip the stabilizer around (so that it's in the position that a stabilizer would be when you fit it into the keyboard), that's where you'll get the measurement you need. I already reinstalled the spacebars, but it was about 2 mm or so closer I'd guess to the plastic on the F spacebar. It may work filed down, but no guarantees. If you do file it down, try to take as much material away from the front of the stabilizer as possible, instead of the rear. (That is, the side facing away from the key when the stabilizer is in the key installed position.)
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Thanks. About 2mm closer - that's roughly what I suspected. It looks like it might just fit into the two hooks though.
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Finally, I am using Soarer's converter but it only works if I plug it in once the machine is up and running. It won't work to enter the BIOS setup, and if I reboot the machine with the converter and keyboard attached, I have to unplug and replug the converter. No output from hid_listen until I do so. Any suggestions? I built the coverter on a breadboard:
Did you ever find a resolution to this? I have the same issue.
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Did you ever find a resolution to this? I have the same issue.
As far as I know, Soarer's Converter does not make itself known until later in the boot.
If I need to get into BIOS, I plug in a conventional keyboard and do all of that early stuff with it.
Fact is, I keep a PS/2 keyboard plugged in all the time and leaning up against the wall.
My Soarer's Teensy can wake up whenever it wants during the process.