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geekhack Community => Input Devices => Topic started by: Keyboarder on Sun, 08 April 2012, 01:42:19
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Hey all,
I'm fairly new to GH here and it's been great reading up and but couldn't really find comparisons between certain mouse that I like, but first some info about me:
Gaming: mostly FPS (BF3)
Grip style: Palm grip
Hand size: Small-Medium
Current setup: Steelseries Ikari Laser
So just recently my Ikari has been bugging me having about 3 buttons double-clicking at random times (though currently fixed with an AutoHotKey software fix). In the market for a new moue and was just wondering what kind of opinions people have out there. I really like ergonomic mice (for gaming, right handed, NOT ambidextrous). I know lots of members here are fans of the Logitech G9x and I've held one but its really not my kind of mouse, just didn't fit in my hand quite well.
I did find that Razer Deathadder and Imperator both fit in my hand really comfortably and was wondering if there were members who have tried using both and what were the opinions of each? I've also tried the CM Storm Spawn/CM Storm Sentinel and both of them were quite nice.
I'd love to hear what others have to say. I'm open to any and all feedback! Thanks!
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I'll give you the same advice as I did in this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29882-Yet-another-quot-reccommend-me-a-mouse-quot-thread-2-0-FPS
ESR lists nine mice with flawless sensors.
Fingertip/claw grip
CM Storm Spawn (has issues with Mumble)
Razer Abyssus
Palm grip
Logitech G400
Microsoft IMO 1.1
Microsoft IMO 3.0
Microsoft Optical Mouse Blue
Microsoft WMO 1.1
Razer Deathadder 3G
Razer Deathadder 3.5G
All other mice not on this list have been confirmed to have prediction and/or acceleration, which is horrible when it comes to accuracy (especially in a FPS). The G9x and other mice with the 9500 sensor (G500, Xai, and Naos) all have built-in acceleration. Big no-no.
The DA has been a go-to mouse for FPS gamers for a long, long time and for good reason. The tracking of the mouse is absolutely superb. The multiple buttons make it easy to have custom configurations for any type of setup you want. The on-the-fly DPI adjustment is on the bottom of the mouse; you probably won't be using it at all.
I had the chance to try out the G400 a few weeks back and it has an awesome feel to it if you're a palm-gripper. Perhaps more so than the DA. Also tracks very nicely, really nice glide to it. I didn't get to play with it that much, but from a limited test-drive I was pretty satisfied with it as a palm-grip mouse.
I'd gladly recommend either the DA or G400 for you.
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Have you tried the new Corsair mice?
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I'm just going to put my two cents out there... Deathadder all the way. Just saying. unless you like Microsoft mice then you should buy my sidewinder.
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G500 or Deathadder 3.5G i have both and prefer the Deathadder
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^The deathadder was and is my least regretted impulse buy of all time, I hate razer on principle but they do make a damn fine mouse.
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I've started hating the shape of my Deathadder, especially now that I've tried out the Mionix Naos mice.
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CM spawn, love how precise it is, perfect for FPS gaming.
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I've started hating the shape of my Deathadder, especially now that I've tried out the Mionix Naos mice.
its just you, the top two mice, G500 and Deathadder are pretty much exactly the same shape
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its just you, the top two mice, G500 and Deathadder are pretty much exactly the same shape
I agree to some extend...because the shape of the buttons is different, DA has a ladle/pan for your finger & even more important the height of the mouse buttons is higher if you fingertip - g500 buttons goes "down" shapewise. this might make a difference for some people. (fingertip, claw gripplayers)
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Have you tried the new Corsair mice?
I've tried the corsair M60 but didn't really like the way it tapered down towards the wrist.
Are there any significant differences between the DA/Imperator? Either in performance, durability etc?
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I think the imperator has on the fly DPI switching? really though it is supposed to be more ergonomic but I think that, despite comments to the contrary, the deathadder has a great design and feel.
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Nothings truly "flawless"
(I won't recommend mice though. I have bias towards specific OEM's and hardware choices)
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+1 for the DeathAdder, but...
Get the Black Edition. The finish is matte black, there's no gloss, anywhere, and no hokey LED Razer icon.
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You MUST try the SS Sensei before committing to buying any mouse...
While it IS ambidextrous, it's very comfortable to hold.
Also in terms of technology I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better
mouse right now... I've used the Xai (predecessor) for years and I remember
when I first got it I noticed a huge consistent k/d improvement over the Razer
Lachesis I owned before (which I also loved).
If your somewhat serious about FPS, there is barely any way round the sensei.
You can adjust EVERYTHING, prediction, lift off distance, DPI in 1 increments,
you can even synch the polling rate by choosing a multiple of your display hz.
Sensei all the way, best mouse I ever used, tried over 20 gaming mice total.
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its just you, the top two mice, G500 and Deathadder are pretty much exactly the same shape
No, they're not.
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You MUST try the SS Sensei before committing to buying any mouse...
While it IS ambidextrous, it's very comfortable to hold.
Also in terms of technology I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better
mouse right now... I've used the Xai (predecessor) for years and I remember
when I first got it I noticed a huge consistent k/d improvement over the Razer
Lachesis I owned before (which I also loved).
If your somewhat serious about FPS, there is barely any way round the sensei.
You can adjust EVERYTHING, prediction, lift off distance, DPI in 1 increments,
you can even synch the polling rate by choosing a multiple of your display hz.
Sensei all the way, best mouse I ever used, tried over 20 gaming mice total.
You can't adjust the built-in positive acceleration that comes with the 9500 sensor. While you can limit its effects by using a hard pad over a cloth pad, the acceleration will always be there.
Not to mention it's double the price of the DeathAdder.
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I don't understand how the "built-in acceleration" is such a big deal. It's unnoticeable and I've used tons of mice that have this so-called acceleration and haven't had an issue.
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That acceleration is negligible and if you want to further reduce it you can just use hard mouse pad or a very high quality (as in fine mesh) cloth pad.
Actually found that post pretty funny, since you mentioned that tiny mistake but didn't mention that the deathadder isn't perfect either... I'd rather have that so called positive acceleration than use a 10 year old mouse with none of the sensei's features...
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I don't understand how the "built-in acceleration" is such a big deal. It's unnoticeable and I've used tons of mice that have this so-called acceleration and haven't had an issue.
You either love it, hate it, or don't notice it at all. If you've used a mouse with acceleration baked in, you probably won't notice the difference when jumping to another mouse that has it. To most people it's not a big deal at all. For me, it is. But as a whole it's something that needs to be mentioned whenever we discuss gaming mice.
If you've been playing with a mouse that has accel, you've probably made adjustments to match the acceleration whether you've realized it or not. I had the same experience prior to the DA. I had wondered why I couldn't just click on a mineral patch; I had to consciously slow down my mouse movements to accurately click on one. When I tried to move quickly, I flicked my wrist quickly to get to where I wanted to go, then had to slow down again for accuracy. This wasn't exactly what I had been looking for when using a mouse. After getting a DA and acclimating to it, I was pleased that I didn't have to worry about accel anymore. I could move my mouse wherever I wanted to without having to worry about adjusting for accel.
When I switched to the DeathAdder, I realized how much more precise I could be with the mouse. I could mouse around quickly within StarCraft II and not have to worry about my cursor flying past a probe that I wanted to select. Same if you're playing any sort of FPS games. You don't want to be moving around, see a perfect headshot line up, then miss because your mouse ended up skipping past where you intended to aim.
Since having the DA and subsequently the CM Storm Spawn, it's a little frustrating to use mice that don't track accurately. Could be a flawed mouse sensor, the fact the user has "Enable pointer precision" enabled, or even another operating system that has it built-in ala OS X. For you, acceleration might not be a big deal. But for others, it is.
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Sorry to call you out, but that's bollocks... The tiny bit of acceleration would NEVER cause you to miss a mineral patch altogether... It's very slight and barely even measurable... Where you using a cloth pad, glass or plastic?
I used the XAI for 2 years on all kinds of surfaces and besides acclimating to different glide I never had the slightest problem lining up a headshot. There is no way in hell that acceleration would have ANY discernible effect in a game like Starcraft 2... Maybe your sensitivity was just set too high...
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That acceleration is negligible and if you want to further reduce it you can just use hard mouse pad or a very high quality (as in fine mesh) cloth pad.
Actually found that post pretty funny, since you mentioned that tiny mistake but didn't mention that the deathadder isn't perfect either... I'd rather have that so called positive acceleration than use a 10 year old mouse with none of the sensei's features...
As I mentioned before, accel: love, hate, or you don't notice it at all.
Outside of the form factor not being up to your liking, what reasons do you have for the DA not being perfect? We can help OP further decide on a mouse of his choosing with a healthy discussion.
Skylit also posted a review of the Sensei at OCN here, even though he said ITT he wouldn't recommend a mouse: http://www.overclock.net/t/1168062/evaluation-steelseries-sensei-56k-warning
Sorry to call you out, but that's bollocks... The tiny bit of acceleration would NEVER cause you to miss a mineral patch altogether... It's very slight and barely even measurable... Where you using a cloth pad, glass or plastic?
I used the XAI for 2 years on all kinds of surfaces and besides acclimating to different glide I never had the slightest problem lining up a headshot. There is no way in hell that acceleration would have ANY discernible effect in a game like Starcraft 2... Maybe your sensitivity was just set too high...
No offense taken. As long as OP finds a mouse that he enjoys, I'll be happy in knowing we were able to find him a good fit.
For the accel issue: It was noticeable for me. 6/11 and pointer precision off in Windows, 51% in StarCraft II. Standard configuration for the game. Spam-boxing and mineral-clicking was a regular thing to get used to the accel every time I started up. After the first couple of minutes, I would be able to adjust to it. But I didn't want to do this every time I loaded SC2.
I had some cheap no-name cloth pad along with one of those Dell hard-plastic pads that came with my older computer. Tried tabletop too, but the tracking was inconsistent. Never did try glass. Still had accuracy problems. Could it have been the mousepad instead of the mouse? Perhaps. But I didn't have that issue once I started using the DA.
Once again I'm going off of my own experiences, and as we've already discussed YMMV. After my personal experiences, I won't be choosing a mouse with accel as my go-to mouse any time in the near future.
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You either love it, hate it, or don't notice it at all. If you've used a mouse with acceleration baked in, you probably won't notice the difference when jumping to another mouse that has it. To most people it's not a big deal at all. For me, it is. But as a whole it's something that needs to be mentioned whenever we discuss gaming mice.
If you've been playing with a mouse that has accel, you've probably made adjustments to match the acceleration whether you've realized it or not. I had the same experience prior to the DA. I had wondered why I couldn't just click on a mineral patch; I had to consciously slow down my mouse movements to accurately click on one. When I tried to move quickly, I flicked my wrist quickly to get to where I wanted to go, then had to slow down again for accuracy. This wasn't exactly what I had been looking for when using a mouse. After getting a DA and acclimating to it, I was pleased that I didn't have to worry about accel anymore. I could move my mouse wherever I wanted to without having to worry about adjusting for accel.
When I switched to the DeathAdder, I realized how much more precise I could be with the mouse. I could mouse around quickly within StarCraft II and not have to worry about my cursor flying past a probe that I wanted to select. Same if you're playing any sort of FPS games. You don't want to be moving around, see a perfect headshot line up, then miss because your mouse ended up skipping past where you intended to aim.
Since having the DA and subsequently the CM Storm Spawn, it's a little frustrating to use mice that don't track accurately. Could be a flawed mouse sensor, the fact the user has "Enable pointer precision" enabled, or even another operating system that has it built-in ala OS X. For you, acceleration might not be a big deal. But for others, it is.
This all may be true, but I agree with mcbrite...it's definitely not THAT noticeable. Are any of the SteelSeries mice currently on the market without the built-in acceleration? If so, I'd be recommending that to new mouse seekers since there's a 30% off coupon for all products through online purchases.
Also, I haven't really fiddled with my sensitivity at all - in-game or Windows. I don't even know if there's a correct "process" to determine what sensitivity and DPI combination I should be using and whatnot, I've just kind of gone with whatever I chose to use since I started gaming and have kept the ratio throughout every game I've played.
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sawedust: thanks for linking that review, I hadn't read that yet and the dude clearly knows his stuff... love reviews like that!
But he almost reinforces my argument? He clearly stated that the acceleration bug is all but gone with the current sensor firmware and that even he was surprised? And let's not forget that the only circumstance you'd even have trouble with it is using a bad cloth pad... If you used something like the Artisan Hayate (if you can ever find the bloody thing) I doubt EVEN YOU would have any objection/problem to using the Sensei on cloth...
I've contemplated all kinds of mice for many months and if you can get along with the Sensei's shape at all, it's has to be the clear winner by a mile. I wish it were closer to the Kinzu in terms of shape, but it's still ok. Form is fantastic for FPS and still very decent for RTS.
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Logitech G700!!
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Probably going to look into getting a SteelSeries Sensei [RAW] (http://steelseries.com/us/products/mice/steelseries-sensei-raw) later in the year unless they release something better, which hopefully is the case.
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This all may be true, but I agree with mcbrite...it's definitely not THAT noticeable. Are any of the SteelSeries mice currently on the market without the built-in acceleration? If so, I'd be recommending that to new mouse seekers since there's a 30% off coupon for all products through online purchases.
Also, I haven't really fiddled with my sensitivity at all - in-game or Windows. I don't even know if there's a correct "process" to determine what sensitivity and DPI combination I should be using and whatnot, I've just kind of gone with whatever I chose to use since I started gaming and have kept the ratio throughout every game I've played.
There was a thread on TL about having 1:1 control in StarCraft II. 6/11 sensitivity, enable pointer precision off, and 51-54% in-game sensitivity will result in 1:1 movement. It may vary for other games, so be sure to check that out.
sawedust: thanks for linking that review, I hadn't read that yet and the dude clearly knows his stuff... love reviews like that!
But he almost reinforces my argument? He clearly stated that the acceleration bug is all but gone with the current sensor firmware and that even he was surprised? And let's not forget that the only circumstance you'd even have trouble with it is using a bad cloth pad... If you used something like the Artisan Hayate (if you can ever find the bloody thing) I doubt EVEN YOU would have any objection/problem to using the Sensei on cloth...
I've contemplated all kinds of mice for many months and if you can get along with the Sensei's shape at all, it's has to be the clear winner by a mile. I wish it were closer to the Kinzu in terms of shape, but it's still ok. Form is fantastic for FPS and still very decent for RTS.
There's one Hayate left on Amazon. :) I don't remember what the new site for the Artisan mousepads are, but they have one in English. You can place a direct order there (if I can find the website again...)
He mentions that acceleration is still present and it's not a mice for those who prefer 1:1 control. Dig a few pages deeper into the thread, and you'll see responses from StarCraft players who have the same complaint about acceleration as I did with my previous mice. Any fast and quick-twitch movements (prevalent in RTS games) will trigger the positive accel. Latest firmware update still doesn't fix it. For FPS players (like OP) who use low sensitivity where the accel may or may not be triggered, this might not be a concern. For an RTS player like me who will definitely feel it, huge dealbreaker.
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amazon won't send that one pad to germany, though... ;-D and the japanese direct shop is sold out... :-(
I'll dig a bit deeper into the thread...
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Hard to go wrong with something from the previously posted list unless you can't find something on it that matches your needs. Deathadder or CM Spawn. Deathadder is more widely accepted by mouse snobs.
BTW, did they ever fix the heinous negative accel issue in BF3? I know lower dpi was helping, but it was pretty terrible.
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I want to advocate the Mionix Naos 5000. It's the most comfortable mouse I've ever used, and comes with 25 pretty preprogrammed colors.
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How about the Zowie AM or the new Zowie EC1/EC2 Evo (same as the old shape but with the new sensor). I have been looking myself for a new mouse, and reading various forums and reviews have narrowed it down to 3.
-Zowie AM (smaller/lighter and better for claw grip)
-Logitech G400 (larger/heavier and better for palm grip)
-Razer Deathadder (Not buying Razer again...)
These 3 mice have the best sensors and tracking available on the market according to various tests and reviews. Any of the above and you can't go wrong.
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All other mice not on this list have been confirmed to have prediction and/or acceleration, which is horrible when it comes to accuracy (especially in a FPS)
Bull****. It's only a matter of taste.
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I have the Zowie AM and think it's an excellent mouse for FPS. I can't make it skip at the sensitivity I use (low sense) and the shape is very nice. My only complaint is that since it doesn't have drivers you can't reassign the side buttons... as far as I know at least. If you don't mind the size then the G400 is pretty much the best mouse you can buy right now in terms of performance.
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Didn't read through all this, so I'm sorry if some of these have already been covered. It should be noted that pretty much any mouse, beyond the basic specifications is just preference. Some features are expensive and unnecessary for some people, but literally make the mouse to others. Two major things to consider are, how the mouse feels in your grip and what you want for performance/features. Knowing these things are critical to getting a mouse that you will enjoy! Now with that nonsense aside, on to the mice!
I play a wide variety of games and I've owned and or used a variety of mice. If you like a palm grip and are looking for something more ergonomic you could try the Mionix Naos. The Razer Imperator and death adder are also excellent choices, both being solid and comfortable. It comes down to preference, if you want the extra sensitivity, the imperator is better for you. The imperator's side buttons can also slide forwards and back a bit if that's relevant for you. The death adder was a little more comfortable to palm(for me at least, the more sloped back was preferable), but that's opinion. Personally, I use a claw grip most of the time and a looser fingertip/claw cross in other games, and I found the adjustable side buttons to be a nice a feature. I also game between 4-5k+ dpi putting another mark in favour of the Imperator for me. Now that's more personal preference again, if you think that the additional performance/features are worth the expenditure(aka you plan to use them), then I think you'll enjoy the Imperator. If you game at a slightly lower DPI and use a consistent grip(and are happy with the position of the side buttons) then the Death Adder is cheaper and will be great for what you need it to do.
I also mentioned the mionix, it's very comfortable to hold and relax with, I think it would make an excellent palm/relaxed mouse grip, but again I don't own it, because I claw grip. The very advantages that make the mionix fantastic to palm; annoy the hell out of me with my claw grip. Other than that you could also try something like the logitech g500 which has adjustable weights, good performance, has a very decent form factor, and as I recall isn't overly expensive. My personal mouse of choice atm is the Saitek Cyborg R.A.T. 7. Yes its pricey, but the software is solid, it has a good list of features, very good performance, and is completely customizable allowing you to make the mouse comfortable for you.
I haven't used any of the CM storm mice, but I was very tempted. They do seem quite good and they get some pretty good reviews. I haven't even had the opportunity to see the corsair gaming mice in person, but the specs/look of them is solid, but I have heard that they are quite heavy. (if that's a factor for you) I have used ambidextrous mice before(Steelseries and razer), and while fine when I used to fingertip exclusively I have found that they are not particularly good for claw/palm grips. As usual with mice, its personal preference. If you like the grip with one of those then go for it, the performance is solid on most of them and their software feature line-ups tend to be good. That said they also tend to be missing things like extra buttons and customization options.
There are literally countless mice you could look for, but it comes down to picking what you need in a mouse. The level of sensitivity, customization, programmability, number of buttons, materials used, on the fly dpi or profile switching, weight and or adjustable weights, acceleration, price, other software and hardware flavours all determine what you need in a mouse. On top of all that you need to be comfortable with how you grip the mouse. So, my advice would be to pick out what you need in terms of features or performance and then look at the grip and feel of the mice that fit your preferences. If you can't find one that's comfortable in what you are looking for then you'll need to expand your selection by being more flexible and going from there(you could also change your grip, which is what I ended up doing at some point in the past, but that's neither here nor there).
I hope that was more helpful than it was annoying to get through. =P
Mouse History: Microsoft MX518 (I think is what it was), Razer Copperhead, Razer Lachesis, Steelseries Kana (briefly), Logitech G9, Razer Naga, Saitek Cyborg R.A.T. 7 Contagion (note this not entirely in order and as I said I've tried countless other mice[friends are gamers too!])
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Mouse History: Microsoft MX518 (I think is what it was), Razer Copperhead, Razer Lachesis, Steelseries Kana (briefly), Logitech G9, Razer Naga, Saitek Cyborg R.A.T. 7 Contagion (note this not entirely in order and as I said I've tried countless other mice[friends are gamers too!])
I'm really curious, how did the Lachesis compare to the other mice you've used?
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I'm really curious, how did the Lachesis compare to the other mice you've used?
I didn't mind the Lachesis, its a solid performer overall, its materials felt nice on the hand, half the side buttons felt well placed, dpi buttons were decent and reasonably accessible, Razer software is intuitive, and the sensitivity is adequate for how I used it. I still own the Lachesis and its not bad by any means, but I've since moved towards mice that are more comfortable for how I grip the mouse. My friend swears by the Lachesis, because his fingers are like miles long; making it perfect for his fingertip grip. For me it was a daily driver for when I fingertip gripped, but since I've changed my grip the shape of the lachesis has really killed it for me. (as stated in my original post regarding ambidextrous mice =P) I don't mind it, but really it comes down to if you can deal with the shape or not. If you can, it has nothing fundamentally wrong with it.
If I had to rank it, with my current grip I'd probably slot it at 4th overall with the RAT 7 at number one and the situational naga in number two tied with my original and always comfortable mx518(G500 is basically the same thing upgraded). But for mice these days, its easy to get a good performer for everyday and gaming, but if its not comfortable for you, its never gonna be ideal. My recommendations is don't buy an ambi without trying the feel in your hand first(if at all possible). If you are a lefty or fingertip grip you'll probably get away with it, but if not always try the feel if at all possible.
If I directly compare it with other ambi's I've owned, I'd say its more comfortable than either the copperhead or the kana. Also, the Lachesis had better features and performance compared to those as well. Really the lachesis was a continuation of the copperhead, but much improved. Things I didn't like in the copperhead were mostly fixed in the lachesis(aka the copperhead's PITA side buttons and no dedicated DPI). One thing I did like on the kana was the cost and the large side buttons which I found to be great compared to trying to use the lachesis' far side buttons! The Lachesis beats my other ambis in both performance and features, but they're not exactly all from the same era and price brackets, aka, not really fair to compare!
I won't even bother comparing the lachesis with the right hand only mice that I own, because many of them have vastly difference features, fairly similar performance, fairly close price brackets, and entirely work better for my grip than the ambi. As I stated in my original post some of these features aren't to be found on an ambi mouse by virtue of design. So, I'd say its hard to straight compare it but, its a good mouse and it just comes down to if its comfortable for you? And does it have the features you want from your mouse.
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I just got a CM Storm Spawn, and my previous mouse was a G500. I immediately noticed a huge improvement in tracking, and played a few rounds of a few FPSs, and my accuracy was noticeably better than with the G500. It didn't help though that I used a claw grip with the G500, the proper shape of the CM Storm Spawn surely has something to do with it also.
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I've been using a Logitech G700 for a couple of months now, and I think it's a fantastic mouse.
It has 13 buttons (5 standard and 8 "extras"), most of which you can customize exactly the way you want to through the SetPoint software. Macros etc. is easy to set up, and can be bound to most of the keys. It has on-the-fly adjustable sensitivity, up to 5700 dpi. You can switch between free flowing and "notched" mouse wheel with the press of a button.
The biggest selling point for me was that it is both wireless and wired. I can't say that I feel any lag when using it in wireless mode, but when you plug in the charging/data USB-cable it actually turns into a wired mouse (as opposed to other mice that just charge through the USB, and don't transfer data). So you get both the freedom of wireless, and the precision of a wired mouse. Also, you can't go wrong with Logitech.
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I'll give you the same advice as I did in this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29882-Yet-another-quot-reccommend-me-a-mouse-quot-thread-2-0-FPS
I went and bought a Death Adder 3.5G Black Edition based on this to replace my G9X. I can tell a difference in the no acceleration, even at 3500dpi it is more precise.
However, the G9X is a much better design for me, the feel, button placement, number of buttons, etc. are so much better. I must not be a full palm grip player as I end up holding the DA at a slight angle. Also I keep having to lift even with adjusting speed/sens/dpi, is this because I'm getting true non-accelerated and I'm use to having it?
Will try a CM Spawn next.
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I just got a CM Storm Spawn, and my previous mouse was a G500. I immediately noticed a huge improvement in tracking, and played a few rounds of a few FPSs, and my accuracy was noticeably better than with the G500. It didn't help though that I used a claw grip with the G500, the proper shape of the CM Storm Spawn surely has something to do with it also.
Do you use teamspeak 3 or ventrilo? There are well documented issues with that software and the cmstorm mice. The driver team was trying to address them. I was quite eager to try the new mice, but not if it messes with my comms.
Currently I'm on my trusty Logitech mx518. This mouse will never die, i just change the feet every few years. No frills, excellent mouse. It's now called the g400. The g500 adds some extras (adjustable weights and things).
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How on earth does mouse driver software interfere with VIOP? That seems odd.
I've gone back to using my MSIE3.0. The Mionix Naos is super comfey, but it's difficult to pick up - a very annoying problem! I might impulse-buy a CM Storm just to see what it's like...
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I don't know why it conflicts, but it's all over their support forums. It is an acknowledged problem by their software team.
MSIE 3.0 is a great classic mouse too. No frills, just a good mouse. Just like the mx518/g400.
From their support site:
My system stutters and audio chat is distorted, whats wrong?
It appears that hitting the Caps Lock, Scroll Lock and Num Lock keys frequently and repeatedly on Windows 7 systems, causes the spawn firmware to stall usbport.sys. This in return triggers an increased amount of system interrupts which results in increased CPU usage in idle mode, and a stuttering and sluggish system.
Temporary fix:
Unplug and reconnect your Spawn mouse and for the time being please refrain from using the Caps Lock key on your keyboard and bind teamspeak or other functions to another key on your keyboard.
Long Term fix:
We have managed to reproduce this issue in our labs and are working on a new firmware series to fix this issue ASAP. (Jan 11 -2012)
Another official post from their site:
Sluggish System/High CPU Usage after installing the Spawn App
There seems to be a bug with the Spawn App causing high CPU usage and slowing down the PC on some systems. We havent been able to reproduce this problem in our labs, so if you are facing this problem please submit a support ticket and provide us with as many system details as possible.
Update: This bug seems to be related to voice chat applications and in-game voice chats.
We are suspecting it is caused by the HD audio on Nvidia VGA cards.
Please let us know what VGA card and VGA driver you are using.
There is a topic discussing this issue on the official CM Storm Forum here:
http://www.cmstorm.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2949
I would suggest getting a Xornet instead of the Spawn. None of these problems are happening with the Xornet, which is almost the same mouse.
Their last non-beta firmware update is Oct 2011, v1.0.
I don't use those keys with my VOIP software, but I would like this fixed before I buy.
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I'm definitely going to have to pick up a MSIE 3.0, anwyone know where to find them on the cheap?
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Do you use teamspeak 3 or ventrilo? There are well documented issues with that software and the cmstorm mice. The driver team was trying to address them. I was quite eager to try the new mice, but not if it messes with my comms.
Currently I'm on my trusty Logitech mx518. This mouse will never die, i just change the feet every few years. No frills, excellent mouse. It's now called the g400. The g500 adds some extras (adjustable weights and things).
Naw, I don't use either, kind of a loner gamer i suppose. Thanks for the info though, I will definitely keep the G500 around as a backup!
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Razer death adder works a charm for me. Nothing too fancy. Good shape. Easy to reach thumb buttons!
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I'm definitely going to have to pick up a MSIE 3.0, anwyone know where to find them on the cheap?
Some Amazon retailers still sells them, though they are discontinued.
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Tried the CM storm spawn, I had no issues with the drivers or TS/Vent, updated firmware. The only problem is my hand is too big, I have a kind of half claw grip. Great mouse though, felt REALLY accurate, but without any part of my hand touching cept the fingertips, got out of control at times, could probably get used to it though. I reinstalled my G9X, still like it better. I might try the Corsair M60 next.
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Got an update/revision to make about all my Sensei comments in the post:
1. I used to be a 2 year XAI user and from what I had read at the time the Sensei was pretty much the same mouse in a different package.
2. Now I own the Sensei and have used it for a week, directly after the XAI...
3. XAI was a fantastic mouse, but Sensei is actually BETTER still. Biggest difference is on cloth pad. I use a REAL old Razer Manits Speed (right now, got other mousepads like Glass, Plastic, special coating as well) and I can definitely feel the the accel problems became way less. To a point where I can't even feel them anymore. Also I got an Artisan Hayate in the post, so that unless you're like Top 3 Quake player in the world, with a good pad you'll have ZERO reason to use the former accel problems of the XAI as an excuse.
I used around 20 different gamer mice in my time, and the Sensei is definitely my favorite right now. I'd have preferred it black like the XAI, but the design isn't TOO flashy and "Razer/R.A.T.-like" to annoy me.
One more very subjective nugget to round it out:
Played Battlefield 3 for the first time in MONTHS with the old weapons, not knowing what setups work after the patch and generally being rusty all round. Team Deathmatch (wanted to aim and shoot much... ;-D). I went 37/23 in the very first round after dying like 6 times trying to make the AS VAL work for me and only getting 1 kill with it... After that used A-91, SCAR-H and the fresh unlocked G36C and tore enough ass to end up at 37/23.
I ♥ the Sensei! Only gonna get better!
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Best Mouse guide:
1) Ergonomics is king. If another mouse has better tracking but you are simply more comfortable using a certain mouse shape even though the tracking has acceleration/jitter ... just stick with the more comfortable mouse.
2) Following that is tracking. The most hardcore FPS'ers game at 400 DPI and high velocity for pinpoint accuracy. The best FPS mice in terms of tracking (1:1 tracking, no acceleration, no jitter, high liftoff distance) are:
Razer Abyssus/Death Adder = Logitech MX518/G400 = CM Storm Spawn/Hornet = Zowie ECS, Zowie AM. The Steelseries sensei is ok if you use a plastic/hard pad. It has acceleration issues otherwise.
There are differences but if youare starting out any of these will have very good tracking properties. Pick the one with the ergonomics that suit you.
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1) Ergonomics is king. If another mouse has better tracking but you are simply more comfortable using a certain mouse shape even though the tracking has acceleration/jitter ... just stick with the more comfortable mouse.
Aint that the truth. Most people are just won't notice minor tracking issues, so you really need to use what you find comfortable.
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I went and bought a Death Adder 3.5G Black Edition based on this to replace my G9X. I can tell a difference in the no acceleration, even at 3500dpi it is more precise.
However, the G9X is a much better design for me, the feel, button placement, number of buttons, etc. are so much better. I must not be a full palm grip player as I end up holding the DA at a slight angle. Also I keep having to lift even with adjusting speed/sens/dpi, is this because I'm getting true non-accelerated and I'm use to having it?
Will try a CM Spawn next.
After doing more research, found that I should turn down the dpi and polling on the DeathAdder to default of 1800dpi/500hz (as I was going max), and that worked out great. Mouse feels excellent, and I can already tell a difference in going from target to target. Also, I tilted my mouse pad a bit and moved my bungie to get a good grip, overall, think the DA is best out of what I tried so far.
Other than Deathadder, G400, and the CM Storm Spawn, all other mice seem to have some glaring flaws. After trying all three, DA is best. Only main issue I have now is lack of buttons, but nbd for FPS.
Also ordered a couple of hard mouse pads to try (as they work best with 3.5g), will post result of Artisan and 9HD comparison.
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Anyone have experience with the Sidewinder X3 (specifically vs MSIE 3.0 and G400/MX518)
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I have never heard the sidewider mentioned in any enthusiast site. Like microsoft keyboards, it is probably because they aren't very good for hardcore gaming.
Other than Deathadder, G400, and the CM Storm Spawn, all other mice seem to have some glaring flaws. After trying all three, DA is best. Only main issue I have now is lack of buttons, but nbd for FPS.
Abyssus belongs in the uber-elite category. It, after all, uses the exact same sensor as the Death Adder.
Mice that are almost as good would be the Zowie AM.
Also ordered a couple of hard mouse pads to try (as they work best with 3.5g), will post result of Artisan and 9HD comparison.
9HD fixes sensor issues on the avago 9500 (steelseries sensei + G9x). However, it is a matter of subjective personal preference usually if you prefer a cloth or hard pad. I am rocking an Artisan Hayate and could never go back. The difference is sublime.
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I have never heard the sidewider mentioned in any enthusiast site. Like microsoft keyboards, it is probably because they aren't very good for hardcore gaming.
Abyssus belongs in the uber-elite category. It, after all, uses the exact same sensor as the Death Adder.
Mice that are almost as good would be the Zowie AM.
9HD fixes sensor issues on the avago 9500 (steelseries sensei + G9x). However, it is a matter of subjective personal preference usually if you prefer a cloth or hard pad. I am rocking an Artisan Hayate and could never go back. The difference is sublime.
Hmmm... does the 9HD fix the positive acceleration issue with the G9X, or just tone it down? I might try it out, if the G9X had a non-flawed sensor, it would be the best mouse I ever used.
I read somewhere the 3.5G BE I have doesn't like cloth pads.
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Hmmm... does the 9HD fix the positive acceleration issue with the G9X, or just tone it down? I might try it out, if the G9X had a non-flawed sensor, it would be the best mouse I ever used.
I read somewhere the 3.5G BE I have doesn't like cloth pads.
From what I've read, it tones it down to 1-3% from the 5% or so it normally has. Acceleration is just built into that sensor :(
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I have an Abyssus and I use a palm grip.
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The MX518 is good enough for me, even after trying out the Xai!
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G9x dropped to $59.99 on Amazon and Newegg (comes with gift on egg). I snagged one to replace my Performance MX.
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I had the Logitech MX518I though it was the best mouse I ever had, until I got a Logitech G500.
I have a Logitech Anywhere Mouse MX for my laptop I sometimes use while traveling
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Sorry to call you out, but that's bollocks... The tiny bit of acceleration would NEVER cause you to miss a mineral patch altogether... It's very slight and barely even measurable... Where you using a cloth pad, glass or plastic?
I used the XAI for 2 years on all kinds of surfaces and besides acclimating to different glide I never had the slightest problem lining up a headshot. There is no way in hell that acceleration would have ANY discernible effect in a game like Starcraft 2... Maybe your sensitivity was just set too high...
Mineral Patches are pretty big targets, and believe it or not RTS aren't as Accurate as you may lead yourself to believe.
When your talking Counter-strike Headshots from massive distance, that is when your going to notice it.
I'm running a G9x which has acceleration, I've always hated acceleration on any FPS game. Lucky for me I don't play them much anymore, and if I do it isn't a big deal to me that I'm missing some of my shots. RTS are waaaaaaaaaay more forgiving.. you can tell by people with amazing control such as MarineKing and his g9x has acceleration just like mine.
Most people don't notice it, if you take FPS seriously its a huge deal though.
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Mineral Patches are pretty big targets, and believe it or not RTS aren't as Accurate as you may lead yourself to believe.
When your talking Counter-strike Headshots from massive distance, that is when your going to notice it.
I'm running a G9x which has acceleration, I've always hated acceleration on any FPS game. Lucky for me I don't play them much anymore, and if I do it isn't a big deal to me that I'm missing some of my shots. RTS are waaaaaaaaaay more forgiving.. you can tell by people with amazing control such as MarineKing and his g9x has acceleration just like mine.
Most people don't notice it, if you take FPS seriously its a huge deal though.
Well, my Battlefield 3 k/d is pretty much exactly 2 kills to 1 death and I only have 4 "no life stars", meaning I don't play that much (just over 20 minutes a day) and I'm certainly not that good...
Have you actually tried it for a good few weeks? Or is that just "theory" you're talking about?
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G9x user here. I play games semi-professionally ("invite" level and I supplement my income by streaming, YT, and lessons), so my priorities are about as weighted towards consistant tracking as can be, but I still concede to the bigger picture when it comes to mouse choice.
Built in acceleration really is an overblown factor. Many of the best FPS gamers use it. So long as the acceleration is consistant, your brain will adapt and compensate. It really only becomes an issue when making tiny snap precision movements, and even then it is hardly noticable.
Comfortable grip, glide, and features (buttons, DPI adjustability/range, polling rate, etc.) are much more important considerations.
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You had the list in the start of the thread, there is your answer. If you are serious about FPS gaming then you dont want to go with a Avago 9800 series mouse in general, just because of the accel.
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I use a Xai and 9HD at home and a G400 at work. Both have wonderful tracking and feel very similar to me. The Xai is definitely a higher quality mouse, as it should be as it costs twice as much as the G400. I feel like Steelseries mice are overpriced in general, but I got mine 1/2 price from Best Buy. I love my Xai, but they just cost too dam much.
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The g400 is technically superior to the Xai though, but the shape of the Xai is something I drool all over :)
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My CM Storm Spawn came in the mail today, and I really like it! The whole thing just feels very well thought-out... might replace my MSIE3.0 and Mionix Naos.
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I've used both G500 and Deathadder, I'd suggest the Deathadder simply because
A. G500 seemed too heavy at times, crap would build up on the feet and drag. Deathadder is easier to glide and doesn't seem to quite have the same issue.
B. I've had several logitech products over several years share the same uncorrected failing point, where the cord exits the device (G15 Gen1, G15 Gen2 G5 and G500) it will become frayed and will work intermittenty, and then not at all.
When the G500 failed a year and 2 weeks after purchaes (IE 2 weeks out of warranty) I dumped it and bought a deathadder, which is compararable if not preferable. The only reason I wouldn't suggest is if you don't like light mice, or prefer the custom weights of the G5x series.
Also, i'm not sure if i'd classify Deathadder as palm grip, I claw grip it, personally.
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I've used both G500 and Deathadder, I'd suggest the Deathadder simply because
A. G500 seemed too heavy at times, crap would build up on the feet and drag. Deathadder is easier to glide and doesn't seem to quite have the same issue.
B. I've had several logitech products over several years share the same uncorrected failing point, where the cord exits the device (G15 Gen1, G15 Gen2 G5 and G500) it will become frayed and will work intermittenty, and then not at all.
When the G500 failed a year and 2 weeks after purchaes (IE 2 weeks out of warranty) I dumped it and bought a deathadder, which is compararable if not preferable. The only reason I wouldn't suggest is if you don't like light mice, or prefer the custom weights of the G5x series.
Also, i'm not sure if i'd classify Deathadder as palm grip, I claw grip it, personally.
What about as far as software and making macros? How do the drivers compare?
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What about as far as software and making macros? How do the drivers compare?
I've never much cared for making macros on my mouse (My G15 had that function and I never used it) but It does have a thumb button that I consistently bind "Talk" to in online games, or another "handsfree" function in single player games (tertiary attack etc.)
The Razer software wants to update ****ing constantly, it's so annoying. I don't need my mouse to have downloadable updates, it's a mouse. If it works, it works, if not, it sucks.
Both are essentially plug-and-play though IIRC. You can get software and drivers from both manufacturer's sites. SO fairly comparable.
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I played BF3 to keep myself occupied until CS GO came out. I'd suggest a Logitech G5/G500 but only if you can appreciate the ergo shape(seems most can't). Otherwise, There's always the Deathadder(be aware the left mouse button will start to wear and become uneven to the right button after 9mo. or so.
I'm using the Steelseries Sensei RAW atm. I know it's not ergo but I gotta say before this one, I didn't like SS mice at all but this one changed my mind. New fav shooter mouse for sure.
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I'm using Steelseries Sensei, works like a charm. :))
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Never liked the Sensei low front end, just got on my nerves with my fingertip grip. I need a chunky body to hold properly.
Using a Zowie AM, Zowie EC2, and Intellimouse 1.1 alternately atm :D
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G400 for teh w1n!
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Never liked the Sensei low front end, just got on my nerves with my fingertip grip. I need a chunky body to hold properly.
Using a Zowie AM, Zowie EC2, and Intellimouse 1.1 alternately atm :D
Other than my Sensei, my other primary mouse would be the IME 3.0. Will post a pic soon. :) I would recommend this 2 mouse, very good for gaming. I never liked Razer DA, always hurts my fingers.
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Never liked the Sensei low front end, just got on my nerves with my fingertip grip. I need a chunky body to hold properly.
Using a Zowie AM, Zowie EC2, and Intellimouse 1.1 alternately atm :D
Other than my Sensei, my other primary mouse would be the IME 3.0. Will post a pic soon. :) I would recommend this 2 mouse, very good for gaming. I never liked Razer DA, always hurts my fingers.
Eh? Put a DA next to the IME; they have incredibly similar shapes. Although I, too, find the IME to be more comfortable most of the time.
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Never liked the Sensei low front end, just got on my nerves with my fingertip grip. I need a chunky body to hold properly.
Using a Zowie AM, Zowie EC2, and Intellimouse 1.1 alternately atm :D
Other than my Sensei, my other primary mouse would be the IME 3.0. Will post a pic soon. :) I would recommend this 2 mouse, very good for gaming. I never liked Razer DA, always hurts my fingers.
Eh? Put a DA next to the IME; they have incredibly similar shapes. Although I, too, find the IME to be more comfortable most of the time.
Not really, when I used DA, my little finger will hurt a lot after games. I used DA for 3 months before changing to IME, and then Sensei. I still have IME for my Laptop. Sometimes finding a mouse can be tricky.. especially for a competitive gamer. :'( But I've found mine, to be honest.. if they still continue upgrading the IME, it'd be the best mouse.. now it has old engine and unadjustable DPI.. it's losing to Sensei, but it's still one of the best I've ever used and still is.
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Sensei Raw. Loving this mouse