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geekhack Community => Other Geeky Stuff => Topic started by: captain on Tue, 17 April 2012, 20:27:24

Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Tue, 17 April 2012, 20:27:24
It is dismaying to see the language mistakes repeatedly made by otherwise seemingly intelligent people. I blame the Internet. Let me help with one of the most bemusingly common errors:



Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: mbc on Wed, 18 April 2012, 09:07:12
this topic is asking to be trolled
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: kps on Wed, 18 April 2012, 10:12:16
Quote from: mbc;577837
this topic is asking to be trolled

No its not.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: hcry4 on Wed, 18 April 2012, 13:47:48
Defiantly/Definitely, Lead/Led
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Wed, 18 April 2012, 16:50:11
Quote from: kps;577912
No its not.

You did that on purpose, didn't you?  :-(   "No, it's not."  It's is used as a contraction of "it" and "is".  Its is the possessive form of it.  "It's not its best work," said the editor about the gender neutral author's latest submission.

Egads.  I haven't seen lead/led.  That other one is just a typo, no?  Or are people frequently belligerent when they mean to be precise?  

For the most part, geekhack otaku are more facile with English than the rest of the Internet, else I couldn't stand to stick around.  Thank you for using proper grammar and spelling!  That shows respect, not only for the language, but also for your reader.  ;-)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Wed, 18 April 2012, 17:24:28
Why is the 's' in 'science fiction' capitalized in you're signature? That better not be a typo.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: emptyk on Wed, 18 April 2012, 22:51:52
Quote from: Vneck;578287
Why is the 's' in 'science fiction' capitalized in your signature? That better not be a typo.
ftfy
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: emptyk on Wed, 18 April 2012, 22:57:00
Captain, do you read and/or write for a living?  It seems like most people who don't tend to rely too much on spell check and/or suffer from laziness.  Moreover, even the very best spellers can have trouble with some of the crazy subtleties of English grammar rules and word usage.  For example, it's always difficult for me to determine whether it's correct to use "which" or "that", and it's nearly impossible for me to determine when to use "who" versus "whom".  As another example, is it correct to put the comma and period outside the ending quotation marks (as I have above), or should the punctuation marks go inside the quotation marks?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Wed, 18 April 2012, 23:23:01
ftfy?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 18 April 2012, 23:27:42
Bad grammar on the Internet (or elsewhere) is not worth being dismayed over IMO.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: kps on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:31:41
Quote from: hashbaz;578570
Bad grammar on the Internet (or elsewhere) is not worth being dismayed over IMO.

Yeah, we shouldn't loose our tempers.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: fossala on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:40:28
Remember that some people find things like this hard. I for one have poor spelling but am trying to improve on it. It doesn't make people feel good when they are trying to get something across and people just take the piss even though they know what they mean. Grow up and stop being a ****.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: PixelVandalism on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:40:55
i hav gud gramer :cool:
I hate how people use "your" when it's supposed to be "you're" or vice versa.
Oh, and "their", "there", and "they're".
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: fossala on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:44:41
Quote from: PixelVandalism;578743
i hav gud gramer :cool:
I hate how people use "your" when it's supposed to be "you're" or vice versa.
Oh, and "their", "there", and "they're".

So you hate that people make mistakes. I don't see why it annoys people. I think people just do it to feel superior in some way. Low self esteem maybe?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:49:59
maybe ther'e first language isn't english?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:55:11
Quote from: Vneck;578287
Why is the 's' in 'science fiction' capitalized in you're signature? That better not be a typo.

I was riffing on ripster's .sig. It's a parody, so follows his lead in form.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: PixelVandalism on Thu, 19 April 2012, 08:56:43
Quote from: fossala;578746
So you hate that people make mistakes. I don't see why it annoys people. I think people just do it to feel superior in some way. Low self esteem maybe?

I probably shouldn't say hate, I just find it aggravating, when someone will constantly use the "your" in every post/comment/status.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:02:55
Quote from: captain;578752
I was riffing on ripster's .sig. It's a parody, so follows his lead in form.


Extra period, plus missing pronoun/identifier between 'so' and 'follows', and 'in form' is unnecessary too! This is the USA, learn to speak American before posting here. Scholastic Aptitude Test or gtfo ty :)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:06:34
.sig is likely a holdover from users of unix accounts w/ the finger tool.  The pronoun/identifier is allowed to be implied.  Being specific about what way captain was following ripster's lead is also good form.

Seems like you're either too young or trying too hard.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:16:32
Quote from: alaricljs;578765
.sig is likely a holdover from users of unix accounts w/ the finger tool.  The pronoun/identifier is allowed to be implied.  Being specific about what way captain was following ripster's lead is also good form.

Seems like you're either too young or trying too hard.

Irony
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:20:30
Quote from: alaricljs;578765
.sig is likely a holdover from users of unix accounts w/ the finger tool.  The pronoun/identifier is allowed to be implied.  Being specific about what way captain was following ripster's lead is also good form.

Seems like you're either too young or trying too hard.

Irony

PS you're saying that implication is grammatically correct, and then that it is wrong in the same post. The implication in the first part is not obvious, and would produce noticeable problems in flow; whereas the second implication about 'how he leads' is obvious and makes the sentence unnecessarily longer which should be avoided.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:26:36
hey rip, this thread is about exactly that so not doing so would break the off topic rule, right?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Soarer on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:28:35
Hey, it's OK to discuss common errors in a general sense though!

Anyway, Im of too brake some keyboards...
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:28:37
Quote from: Vneck;578772
PS you're saying that implication is grammatically correct

Implying is perfectly fine when there's only 1 thing to be implied especially when the subject has already been used in the same sentence.  The second part could be directed in many ways and so it's a nice touch to be specific and not leave the reader to guessing.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:28:41
Quote from: Vneck;578287
Why is the 's' in 'science fiction' capitalized in you're signature? That better not be a typo.

I was riffing on ripster's .sig. It's a parody, so it follows his lead, in form at least.

Quote from: emptyk;578554
Captain, do you read and/or write for a living?  It seems like most people who don't tend to rely too much on spell check and/or suffer from laziness.  Moreover, even the very best spellers can have trouble with some of the crazy subtleties of English grammar rules and word usage.  For example, it's always difficult for me to determine whether it's correct to use "which" or "that", and it's nearly impossible for me to determine when to use "who" versus "whom".  As another example, is it correct to put the comma and period outside the ending quotation marks (as I have above), or should the punctuation marks go inside the quotation marks?

I am the child of a professional editor, so I do come from a rarified environment. Still, if our goal is to communicate politely, then it behooves us to strive for intelligibility and correct usage of our language. It is just RUDE to write what you do not mean, yet expect your reader to correctly misinterpret you. English is ambiguous enough without carelessness exacerbating the arcana and thereby devolving into obfuscatory jingoistic argot. See what I mean?  ;-)

Of course, people make typos and sometimes miss them in the proof reading (you DO proof your writing before hitting send/post, right??). However, habitual abuse is unforgivable, as is laziness in any endeavor. As Yoda said, "Try?  TRY?  There is no try!  DO, or NOT DO!"  Perhaps quoting an infamous abuser of English is detrimental to my cause, but since Yoda's primary language is ostensibly not English, he is allowed leeway, particularly since his grammatical errors do not inhibit the communication of his great wisdom. Likewise, I would give wide berth to ESL people here, but still expect them to work to improve, and certainly to correct chronic abuses that are easily learned, e.g.: then vs. than, your vs. you're.

Quote from: fossala;578742
Remember that some people find things like this hard. I for one have poor spelling but am trying to improve on it. It doesn't make people feel good when they are trying to get something across and people just take the piss even though they know what they mean. Grow up and stop being a ****.

It is commendable that you are working to improve your communication skills!  However, your last statement appears to be self-reflexive. :-/  Please refrain from further inflammatory commentary.

Speaking of "further": farther refers to greater measurable lengths, further refers to greater, non-length, quantities. Also, the rules for use of quotation marks are a not arcane, and probably left for another post devoted solely to that one point.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: kps on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:28:52
Quote from: ripster;578758
I found IMPACT to be a troublesome font for Sigs.
I found IMPACT to be a troublesome font, since it's yet another cheapass Microsoft imitation, in this case of Helvetica Inserat.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Vneck on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:32:52
Quote from: alaricljs;578786
Implying is perfectly fine when there's only 1 thing to be implied especially when the subject has already been used in the same sentence.  The second part could be directed in many ways and so it's a nice touch to be specific and not leave the reader to guessing.

Yes I know, that's what I said afterwards [I clarified in an edit posted before your post]
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:40:36
Quote from: Soarer;578785
Hey, it's OK to discuss common errors in a general sense though!

Anyway, Im of too brake some keyboards...

Ouch!  My poor ears. :-P
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Thu, 19 April 2012, 09:47:58
Quote from: alaricljs;578786
Implying is perfectly fine when there's only 1 thing to be implied especially when the subject has already been used in the same sentence.  The second part could be directed in many ways and so it's a nice touch to be specific and not leave the reader to guessing.

By the way, when numbers occur in dialog they are best spelled out.  This is a minor error, and even I would certainly overlook it in all but the rarest cases.

My impetus for this thread is the CHRONIC abuse of several common words and phrases, easily learned and remedied.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 19 April 2012, 10:06:37
Yeah, when I'm working I write a lot of scripts and then switching to posting in the forum I keep using digits because they work better in 'for' loops.  ;)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: sth on Thu, 19 April 2012, 10:12:01
I'll just leave this here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: laffindude on Thu, 19 April 2012, 10:24:16
One thing I love is people using defiantly instead of definitely. Great marker for me to exit a conversation.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: kps on Thu, 19 April 2012, 11:16:35
You mean that isn't Steve Jobs?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48604[/ATTACH]
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: 7bit on Thu, 19 April 2012, 13:14:26
Quote from: kps;578889
You mean that isn't Steve Jobs?

(Attachment) 48604[/ATTACH]

I see 1 other typical common error here:

It is NeXT not NEXT!!!
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: laffindude on Thu, 19 April 2012, 14:36:59
^Luckily I was following my own signature, otherwise my tea would have been all over keyboard, monitor, and my expensive amp.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: litster on Thu, 19 April 2012, 15:12:11
captain, what do you think of the usage of of double periods and commas, like ".." and ",,"?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: guilleguillaume on Thu, 19 April 2012, 18:06:53
Quote from: litster;579156
captain, what do you think of the usage of of double periods and commas, like ".." and ",,"?

issue

I think I've never done this error which the OP refers to. Also English is not my main language but I try to explain myself and try to make my posts easy to read which sometimes may lead to really simple lines and not difficult words. Google translate is quite useful sometimes when I can't find the exact word I'm looking for.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: squarebox on Thu, 19 April 2012, 22:49:30
I senses alot of xNTP who is normally grammar nazis.

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/139/490/I%20see%20what%20you%20did.jpg)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Thu, 19 April 2012, 22:58:10
I tend to overuse ellipsis when I am writing a forum post.  It's a habit I picked up from multi-user chat where I'd type a partial thought and an ellipsis then send it.  I'd then continue my thought after a bit and keep on like that.  I did it to signal I was not yet through with what I was saying.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Mon, 23 April 2012, 10:39:05
Quote from: litster;579156
captain, what do you think of the usage of of double periods and commas, like ".." and ",,"?

I have never encountered a case where either of those would be acceptable.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Nighted on Mon, 23 April 2012, 19:49:13
You know what really pisses me off?; 'could of' 'would of'... [ATTACH=CONFIG]48790[/ATTACH]
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 23 April 2012, 20:16:02
should of?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 23 April 2012, 20:18:44
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/560659_434160706613388_205344452828349_1546757_1693520279_n.jpg)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Nighted on Mon, 23 April 2012, 20:18:54
Quote from: alaricljs;580408
should of?

Yeah, that too!
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Nighted on Mon, 23 April 2012, 20:21:50
Quote from: laffindude;578861
One thing I love is people using defiantly instead of definitely. Great marker for me to exit a conversation.

Definately comes up ALOT!!!! But that's just a way too common spelling error.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Tue, 01 May 2012, 14:02:46
"A lot" is two words! *I shall allot you a lot of leeway, but i shall not extend that courtesy to anyone who uses the word Nazi to refer to those of us who use, and request, proper spelling and grammar. *Name-calling is uncalled for, rude, and belligerent--and the last resort of the small mind who knows he cannot win.*
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: laffindude on Tue, 01 May 2012, 14:07:47
Quote from: Nighted;580418
Definately comes up ALOT!!!! But that's just a way too common spelling error.


Look closer. defiantly. Definate is a common one, but defiantly is just... odd.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Tue, 01 May 2012, 14:22:13
When did people get confused about "avatar" vs. "icon"? I blame that pop movie guy who used Papyrus as his movie title font! :-P

An avatar is an interactive icon, a vessel representing and carrying you in cyberspace (from sanskrit - a manifestation of a god in a human body) - much more than just an icon.   These icons we use to identify our posts are icons.  A "character" in WoW, SecondLife, etc. is an avatar: i.e. a vessel into which we pour our soul and maneuver in cyberspace as an extension of "self".
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Tue, 01 May 2012, 16:49:17
I am surprised at you brother ripster.  You, above all, seem to have a desire to communicate effectively.  Then again, you merely equated Grammar Nazis with trolls; I'm sure that you are not besmirching anyone present.  ;-P


"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."  — Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

edit: corrected the quotation marks, dashes, and book title style.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: hashbaz on Tue, 01 May 2012, 22:14:10
Quote from: captain;587579
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.' -- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass

I think that should be a dash between "mean" and "neither", rather than a hyphen.  I say this in the spirit of the thread, not to rib you.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: All The Fire on Tue, 01 May 2012, 22:31:28
I saw someone here write "for all intensive purposes" instead of "for all intents and purposes" a while ago. I thought that was very strange.

For the most part, I've sort of given up caring about people's grammar and calling them out, or even making a spotless job of it myself.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 02 May 2012, 07:48:49
So, which of the following:

1)  I could care less
2)  I couldn't care less

I see way too many people thinking #1 makes sense, or at least not realizing that it doesn't work.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 02 May 2012, 11:43:08
Quote from: alaricljs;588005
So, which of the following:

1)  I could care less
2)  I couldn't care less

I see way too many people thinking #1 makes sense, or at least not realizing that it doesn't work.

This one actually does bug me.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Wed, 02 May 2012, 11:51:19
Quote from: hashbaz;587799
I think that should be a dash between "mean" and "neither", rather than a hyphen.  I say this in the spirit of the thread, not to rib you.

You are absolutely correct!  I didn't proofread what I was quoting.  :-P
Of course, in typing (like here, where we either don't have full typesetting, or I don't know how to abuse the vBulletin formatting system) one uses two hyphens to represent an em-dash.  I'll go back and fix that now.  Thanks!
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Nighted on Wed, 02 May 2012, 11:58:03
Quote from: captain;587471
"A lot" is two words!

Yes, thanks "a lot"! haha
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Wed, 02 May 2012, 12:03:19
Quote from: alaricljs;588005
So, which of the following:

1)  I could care less
2)  I couldn't care less

I see way too many people thinking #1 makes sense, or at least not realizing that it doesn't work.

I heard a funny bit on this subject from a comedian on the radio this morning.  He went on a tear about how much less he could still care, even though he didn't care much at the moment.  Ah ha!  Here he is, although this performance seems to be an abridged version:

(skip to ~01:30 to hear the grammar rant)
[video=youtube;7fhyZ-c9c7Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fhyZ-c9c7Y[/video]

I recall having this epiphany early in college, where I encountered an inordinate number of seemingly functional illiterates who abused the first phrase with alarming regularity.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: J-P on Wed, 02 May 2012, 14:19:42
so addicting! (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IHmZeGAA2pw/Tw9HHzmr2RI/AAAAAAAAB6I/wcW9a5I8Wk0/s1600/troll%2Bface.jpg)
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: captain on Wed, 02 May 2012, 14:32:12
I identify with the sentiment of this post, from another BBS:

Quote
I've noticed several instances lately (not on this list, thanks be) in which
somebody says something like "I got a pit in my stomach when I thought about
X."

Is this as ridiculous as I think it is

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/pit-of-your-stomach

or do I have to accept this idiocy because after all, English is an
evolving, ever-changing, living language?  How many ignorant people does it
take to make something which is obviously incorrect, correct or at least
acceptable? And what's the minimum number of instances of such usage, or
what is the length of time during which the incorrect usage is used,  that
it takes before it's accepted even though it's obviously wrong? And will
somebody please tell  me where and when to draw the line?

I agree that the English language is flexible and it should be;  but words
mean certain things after all, and aren't copyeditors supposed to make sure
that they're used correctly?

Stuff like this drives me nuts.


I think I may just spout this to the "English is a living language!" wankers:  

How many ignorant people does it take to make something, which is obviously wrong, acceptable?




How the Hell did I get to 1000 posts?!?   :-o

Quote from: ripster;588223
One more post Captain.

One more....
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=The+Ripster+Signature+Wiki#RIPS  TER+CODE+OF+BULSHIDO

Actually, according to the bulshido code, I still have ONE to go!  ;-P    (and please stop capitalizing my moniker)



Meanwhile, 1000th post written while listening to:

[video=youtube;xat1GVnl8-k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xat1GVnl8-k[/video]
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: ricercar on Wed, 02 May 2012, 23:13:05
Quote from: captain;588302
and please stop capitalizing my moniker

ripster's accuracy decreases when he's not discussing keyboards. He thinks my name is RicerCar.
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: Lanx on Thu, 03 May 2012, 00:25:05
Quote from: ricercar;588751
ripster's accuracy decreases when he's not discussing keyboards. He thinks my name is RicerCar.

it's not?
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 03 May 2012, 01:15:06
Irony is a disciplinarian feared only by those who do not know it, but cherished by those who do.

- Soren Kierkegaard
Title: THEN is not interchangeable with THAN
Post by: ricercar on Thu, 03 May 2012, 01:23:04
"I my experience Grammar Nazis are just trolls. [sic]"
-ripster