All the links goes back to this thread.
Some pictures from drteming on this converter. Very neat. I think the enclosure is from Radio Shack: http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:17458&viewfull=1&page=33&do=comments#post535332Show Image(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7180/6808489832_f74f1208cb_b_d.jpg)Show Image(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7195/6954598029_8cf1957693_b_d.jpg)
This is silly... the USB protocol is still not as good as the PS/2 due to the way hardware interrupts are handled..Care to back that claim up with some science of your own?
You've gone 1 step forwards with this silly gadget, and 2 steps back..
Good science though...
Ok. They're different. Now prove that USB is not as fast or efficient as PS/2 when properly implemented.
I don't think tp4tissue can. He is still using serial mice, and connects his printers through parallel ports. Bi-direction parallel ports though. He knows how to configure BIOS.
Doesn't interrupt driven peripherals gets less responsive when you load up the CPU?
it is so much more inefficient because we don't have CPU cycles to spare. NOT!
When was the last time your PC slowed to a crawl because it was busy polling a USB keyboard?
BTW - your system is probably using polling at some point in the chain to talk to the PS/2 controller on the mobo these days :) The PS/2 controller sits way off on a Super IO chip which uses LPC to talk to the southbridge which then uses the exact same bus as USB controllers do to talk to the north bridge and on down to the CPU.
AND the only reason that we STILL have PS/2 for these higher end expensive keyboards IS due to it's superiority.
BTW, does the Filco NKRO bug exist with with this converter? The one where you release bunch of keys at the same time and some would be stuck on.
Um no, it's called LEGACY, not superiority. And we're having this discussion because you seem to think that demeaning someone or something without basis is a sound method of debate.
There IS a Wiki on this!
But Carry On.
This has been determined to be a windows driver issue. because the same phenomena happens on numerous other keyboards.. mostly with the "shift" key.
blah blah blah USB sucks
Does those Other keyboards tested use different controller/firmware?
it is so much more inefficient because we don't have CPU cycles to spare. NOT!
When was the last time your PC slowed to a crawl because it was busy polling a USB keyboard?
Lister, I'm sorry you reinvented the wheel, and did it badly.. ..
I honestly don't know why we're arguing over this, because the ps/2 vs usb topic has been done many times over,
AND the only reason that we STILL have PS/2 for these higher end expensive keyboards IS due to it's superiority.
This is not to say that your product absolutely doesn't have any marketability. laptops or motherboards that are sadly without a ps/2 port is where your "alleged" awesome controller would do wonders.
So, stay in there bucko.
I would think so, LOL, they were USB
Would you? Because Costar makes a lot of different boards and uses the same controller and MOST of the same firmware in every single one of them. They only modify the higher level stuff like whether they do an Fn layer w/ media keys and whatnot.
You didn't answer my question. When was the last time your computer slowed to a crawl because it was busy pulling a USB keyboard that PS/2 would not have slowed you down? You are just threadcrapping for the sake of threadcrapping.
Don't come here to threadcrap. You are not welcome here. GTFO.
BTW - your system is probably using polling at some point in the chain to talk to the PS/2 controller on the mobo these days :) The PS/2 controller sits way off on a Super IO chip which uses LPC to talk to the south bridge which then uses the exact same bus as USB controllers do to talk to the north bridge and on down to the CPU.
You didn't point anything out. the USB controller offers certain benefits over PS/2. You're bringing up an apples-to-oranges comparison to refute his statement. Nothing he claimed about his controller is incorrect. The only thing you can maybe take issue with is his design choice about the polling rate, which you can either agree with or not but has absolutely nothing to do with PS/2.
You also don't know how PS/2 works on modern hardware (i8042 chips). You are arguing from ignorance. More importantly, you are threadcrapping. Again.
BTW, does the Filco NKRO bug exist with with this converter? The one where you release bunch of keys at the same time and some would be stuck on.
Ah.. hmm.. well personally I've encountered the issue on my cm storm, the razer bw, and the corsair k60 and k90..
I guess my last post got deleted :(
CM Storm is a Costar based directly on the Filco 87key layout using the same Holtek controller.
No direct evidence on the BW, but there was plenty of speculation that it's also Holtek. The U9BL-S has a Cypress chip in it tho...
Corsair may use Holtek since it is one of the most used controllers. Shame people aren't ripping apart Corsairs to take pictures.
And with that I bow out...
Ah.. hmm.. well personally I've encountered the issue on my cm storm, the razer bw, and the corsair k60 and k90..
No i don't know if they all use diff controllers.
How do you encounter it on the Blackwidow when it is 2kro?
You can poll it over 9000 all day, it is not handled the same way as the hardware interrupts over ps/2 connection.Heh, that's not how USB works. The polling isn't done by the CPU, it's done by the USB chips. Only IF there has been a packet received does it bother the CPU.... and that's an interrupt (http://comp.ist.utl.pt/ec-sc/0304/docs/ecos-2.0b1/doc/html/ref/usbs-writing.html), baby! And packets are only sent when there is some change in key state.
PS/2
keyboard tells the cpu, hey stop, look at this...
USB
Cpu goes, hey keyboard what's going on buddy,
---then it does this up to 1000hz
STILL,, very different ball game.
This is PS/2's main advantage
However, a second lesser but important advantage is that the Keyboard will never be fvcked over by other usb devices, because PS/2 does NOT share bandwidth with all other usb devices.USB devices reserve bandwidth on the bus, so it's only if you've overloaded the bus that that can happen. And that's pretty unusual these days, with most motherboards having multiple USB hubs.
If you got a usb hard drive, a usb mouse, and a usb keyboard, they are all polled by the usb controller, so if everything was running, this could introduce significant latency and drops
I already did, read above.Bear in mind - that sort of stuff is written by a marketdroid, not a techie. Even the techies working on a keyboard are unlikely to know much about USB, and even less about OS drivers, since they tend to just buy in pre-programmed chips from Holtek or whoever.
And I know I'm only a minor authority on this forum but here's what "steelseries says"
They are usb and ps/2, so it's not a biased opinion
Steelseries:
We absolutely recommend using the PS/2 connector when possible. First,it will give you total freedom with no limit to the amount of simultaneous key presses. And, equally as important, using the PS/2 may just improve your overall gaming experience. The reason is that when you use a USB keyboard your computer is actually using CPU time polling your keyboard. The higher the polling rate the more CPU time is used to perform the polling. And because of the built-in debounce rate found on any quality keyboard, any polling rate above 200Hz is simply a waste of CPU time and really just a result of pointless marketing hype. Unlike USB keyboards a PS/2 keyboard isn’t polled at all. The keyboard simply sends a signal to the computer as key presses are made, which causes a hardware interrupt, forcing the CPU to register the signal.
This has been determined to be a windows driver issue. because the same phenomena happens on numerous other keyboards.. mostly with the "shift" key.a) The Windows driver issue does not affect my converter - NKRO avoids the problem.
I am Helvetica.No... I am Helvetica!
a) The Windows driver issue does not affect my converter - NKRO avoids the problem.
b) It's fixed in Windows 7 anyway.
Heh, that's not how USB works. The polling isn't done by the CPU, it's done by the USB chips. Only IF there has been a packet received does it bother the CPU.... and that's an interrupt (http://comp.ist.utl.pt/ec-sc/0304/docs/ecos-2.0b1/doc/html/ref/usbs-writing.html), baby! And packets are only sent when there is some change in key state.
So, polling keyboards at 1000Hz doesn't load up the CPU any more than at 100Hz.
Mice are different - they will load the CPU up more if you poll them more, because they can usually find something to report (they just report smaller movement increments each time).
USB devices reserve bandwidth on the bus, so it's only if you've overloaded the bus that that can happen. And that's pretty unusual these days, with most motherboards having multiple USB hubs.
Bear in mind - that sort of stuff is written by a marketdroid, not a techie. Even the techies working on a keyboard are unlikely to know much about USB, and even less about OS drivers, since they tend to just buy in pre-programmed chips from Holtek or whoever.
a) The Windows driver issue does not affect my converter - NKRO avoids the problem.
b) It's fixed in Windows 7 anyway.
No... I am Helvetica!
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?18674-Filco-Stuck-Modifiers-and-Keys <== this issue is related to that issue fixed here (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?16416-Windows-7-SP1-fixes-12-key-issue)?
It is totally not fixed in Windows 7. is this a recent patch?
Gotcha. I don't know what issue TP4 is talking about though, since his BW triggers whatever it is.
How do you encounter it on the Blackwidow when it is 2kro?
Gotcha. I don't know what issue TP4 is talking about though, since his BW triggers whatever it is.
I hate the black widow with a passion. Damn that keyboard suck so hard,,, thank god for amazon return policy.. K60 and k90 were downers too.
I hate the black widow with a passion. Damn that keyboard suck so hard,,, thank god for amazon return policy.. K60 and k90 were downers too.
And, tp4tissue, how about some comment on the myth-busting parts of my post (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?30466-Filco-NKRO-over-USB-for-REALZ!&p=579124&viewfull=1#post579124)?
I'm having trouble finding specific literature on the i8042 chip,, but you did not do any mythbusting, you've merely added more fluff without any substantiation or sources.Oh, you're funny. 2+2. Hahahaha.
It's like calling into question what the plus sign means, and what does 2 really mean, when asked 2+2,, you can do this indefinitly,
I'm having trouble finding specific literature on the i8042 chip
The Intel 8242BB is programmed with IBM's keyboard
controller firmware. The 8242BB provides an
off the shelf keyboard and auxiliary device controller
for AT, PS/2, EISA, and PCI architectures.