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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: The Singing Detective on Tue, 24 April 2012, 11:34:26
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I understand that almost all NKRO USB keyboards don't work under OSX, and that there have been some peculiarities reported with the CM QF Rapid tenkeyless board (not working in pre-boot EFI).
My hope is that this keyboard (which is by far the most reasonably-priced, well-made Cherry Brown keyboard I can find in Canada - branding aside...) will work in its default 6KRO mode in OSX with any hiccoughs; I can live without NKRO. The DSI Mac Modular and several others that support 6KRO (from what I've read) don't have any Mac-related issues, so I assume it should be OK.
Does anyone have any experience with this keyboard in OSX?
Failing this, I'm also considering the Cherry Brown-based PLU ML-87 and the harder-to-find CM QF Rapid (SGK-4000-GKCM1-US). I was a bit torn between having a keypad and not (when I enter grades, it's very handy to have; the rest of the time I'd rather have the desk space), but these do seem like my best options - at least until the Canadian Filco distributor comes online.
Thanks for the help!
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I wouldn't get a quickfire PRO before some reviews come out. because it comes from a bad rep oem producer, or at least is "speculated" to have such distasteful origins.
The quickfire tkl normal is solid and made by costar, so it's safe to get same oem as filco.
However, if you're entering grades, I'm guessin you need a number pad, so you should probably get a DAS with the student discount
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Sorry kinda off topic here but it might open up your options a bit more. Have you considered a TKL and then just a keypad that you could use when your entering grades or whenever? I was torn between a TKL and full 104 awhile back and while lurking around the forums here I saw someone mention using a keypad with a TKL, so I figured I'd give it a go and its worked beautifully for me. I just set the keypad off under the monitor when its not needed.
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My understanding was that the QF Pro had the same OEM as the QF Rapid: it's not Costar for both? Yikes. Who's supposed to be the OEM for the Pro? I must have missed this discussion in my searches.
edit: Oh nuts... it's supposed to be iOne. And the only reason I thought the Pro was Costar-built was because of one RFD post and one review I found early on. Any more news on this front?
Options are always good! I didn't even know DAS had a student discount, so I'll definitely look into that. I hadn't considered a separate keypad, but that's definitely an idea: it can sit in a drawer until assignments come in.
A further edit:
This post (apparently from a CM employee) (http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2609329&postcount=10) would seem to confirm that the Pro is iOne. I wonder if it's too late to cancel my order...
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This post (apparently from a CM employee) (http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2609329&postcount=10) would seem to confirm that the Pro is iOne. I wonder if it's too late to cancel my order...
I've decided to be a little risky and not cancel my order. DAS won't ship to Canada, so the student discount's no help there, and the TKL alternatives readily available to me (PLU-87, CM GF Rapid, even the SMK-88 if I wasn't sure my wife would murder me over the Cherry Blues), their drawbacks aside, would have been a minimum of 30% more expensive even before I found a separate keypad.
On top of that, after doing a little admittedly optimistic reading, particularly in and around the post linked above, it seems as though CM is willing to put in the effort to maintain a high level of QC no matter who their OEM is.
i wouldnt call it a downgrade, but yes, we switched to iOne...
i dont know why costar is supposed to be so great, we had a lot of headaches with them and had to go back and forth with small quality quirks...
from my experience in working with different fabs, id say costar is average, maybe slightly above average... they "forgot" to add grease to the balance levers of the spacebar and backspace and enter keys on some batches of the quickfire series, which resulted in squeeky sounds... i mean come on... we had to send them all back... and that wasnt the only thing...
Now, leaving aside the fact that this is, after all, an employee justifying an unpopular decision to the public, I think there are reasons for optimism. If CM is willing to send back whole batches for what would, to most companies, be dismissed as minor problems, it may not matter who the manufacturer is: if they insist on quality, they'll get it.
I know I'm in the minority in my willingness to overlook iOne's designs (especially the QF Pro), but from my goaltending background, I'm comfortable with the idea that one generally has to pay a premium to get something unbranded; it's something I can overlook if I have to.
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I've decided to be a little risky and not cancel my order. DAS won't ship to Canada...
Screw DAS...BTW, Deck are *******s too. Thankfully for them my first mechanical was a Filco. In the end I got the better keyboard.
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Das is readily available in Canada, just not with their direct sale student discount. Read the Canadian buying wiki for ideas.
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Mac does not support NKRO in USB mode. But you can use 6keys in Mac.
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Mac does not support NKRO in USB mode. But you can use 6keys in Mac.
That was my understanding from what I'd read. Have you used the CM GF Pro in 6KRO mode with a Mac? That's exactly what I want to confirm!
Das is readily available in Canada, just not with their direct sale student discount. Read the Canadian buying wiki for ideas.
To be fair, I never said Das boards weren't available; I said they wouldn't ship to Canada directly. I had read that particular wiki, and it was quite helpful. That said, I didn't think the price compared favorably with the CM, which had everything I was looking for -- apart, it seems, from a track record of QC with their builder.
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Switch to 6keys and you can enjoy 6keys in Mac. :tongue1:
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If anyone has got a CM PRO already, and would extract the HID Report details (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+Keyboard+HID+Reports), I could examine it to see if it looks like it would work on the Mac.
Macs can support NKRO, but only if it's done right.
edit: Oh, it switches?!
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Pro can't support NKRO in Mac system. Only support 6keys in Mac.
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A further edit:
This post (apparently from a CM employee) (http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2609329&postcount=10) would seem to confirm that the Pro is iOne. I wonder if it's too late to cancel my order...
I saw the message but now the link is not valid. I wonder if CoolerMaster got the message deleted?
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Pro can't support NKRO in Mac system. Only support 6keys in Mac.
Thx. Makes me want to see the HID Report Descriptors even more!
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Heh, cool - my mod is linked to from this review (http://www.gnd-tech.com/content/881-Cooler-Master-Storm-QuickFire-Pro-Review/view/2?)! :-)
... some people have found a way to implement NKRO in USB as seen here (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:17458).
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It does not support N-Key in USB on MAC. It will support 6Key rollover. Sorry for any inconvenience.
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Brilliant: thanks, guys. I can live without NKRO as long as the 6KRO mode is stable.
I also had more or less the same confirmed by a shop that sells both (mechanicalkeyboards.com) and went to the trouble of contacting CM for me and confirming as much. My initial inquiry to CM was blown off with a 'we don't support Macs, but it might work...'. The guy from mechanicalkeyboards.com was terrific.
Soarer, that's it: it can be switched between modes. Apparently the default is 6, and then a combination of keys switches to N-key mode, which installs another driver in Windows and causes Macs to folds their arms and shake their heads. Also, yeah, you're famous. :cool: If I have a moment at some point, I'll try to get you that report, if you're interested.
Crake, if that message has been deleted, I have PDF and screenshot copies. It seemed like useful information. I can post them if anyone's interested. The CM employee makes a good case for why they switched from Costar to iOne.
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Oh yes, still interested! Would have to be in NKRO mode, of course! (Should still be able to get the report using a Mac).
Also interested in finding out how it goes wrong on Macs in NKRO mode.
The driver thing is a bit misleading - it's actually the same driver as a regular 6KRO keyboard I think, and the only reason Windows goes searching for a driver is because it hasn't seen the IDs (VID and PID) of that device before.
The main thing I'd like to find out from the report is whether it's low-speed or full-speed USB. If it's low-speed, then I'm not sure if it can actually do 1mS polling on Windows, or if Windows will just override the setting (pretty sure it will in 6KRO mode, at least).
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Makes sense, Soarer: I don't think the reviewer had anything like your level of technical knowledge, and just saw something 'odd' happen when he switched into NKRO mode.
I guess I'll be the guinea pig... heh. I only wish I had the wherewithal and wisdom necessary to give this thing a thorough review.
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You're killing me, Ripster... aargh!
Seriously, is the confidence in iOne's ability to produce a decent keyboard, even when they're being carefully scrutinised, so low that I shouldn't even be considering this? I feel like I'm guilty of the classic e-mistake of letting all the right features overwhelm doubts about quality: the QF Pro is and has everything I want, but it's all for nothing if those features are associated with a sub-par product.
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Connection Status Device connected
Current Configuration 1
Speed Full (12 Mbit/s)
Device Address 2
Number Of Open Pipes 2
Device Descriptor Quick Fire PRO Keyboard
Offset Field Size Value Description
0 bLength 1 12h
1 bDescriptorType 1 01h Device
2 bcdUSB 2 0110h USB Spec 1.1
4 bDeviceClass 1 00h Class info in Ifc Descriptors
5 bDeviceSubClass 1 00h
6 bDeviceProtocol 1 00h
7 bMaxPacketSize0 1 08h 8 bytes
8 idVendor 2 2516h
10 idProduct 2 0009h
12 bcdDevice 2 0110h 1.10
14 iManufacturer 1 01h "CM Storm"
15 iProduct 1 02h "Quick Fire PRO Keyboard"
16 iSerialNumber 1 00h
17 bNumConfigurations 1 01h
Hi, I have this keyboard. Came from a Meka G1 and QuickFire Rapid Blue, and this thing does not disappoint. very well built like the rapid. Although I still prefer typing on the Quickfire rapid blue more.
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Oh yes, still interested! Would have to be in NKRO mode, of course! (Should still be able to get the report using a Mac).
Also interested in finding out how it goes wrong on Macs in NKRO mode.
The driver thing is a bit misleading - it's actually the same driver as a regular 6KRO keyboard I think, and the only reason Windows goes searching for a driver is because it hasn't seen the IDs (VID and PID) of that device before.
The main thing I'd like to find out from the report is whether it's low-speed or full-speed USB. If it's low-speed, then I'm not sure if it can actually do 1mS polling on Windows, or if Windows will just override the setting (pretty sure it will in 6KRO mode, at least).
Is it full speed-usb. It does full n-key rollover and 1ms in windows.
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Thanks, Viets! Awesome contribution, if I may say so. You wouldn't happen to have used it on a Mac, by any chance?-- however briefly, it'd be nice to get another informed account.
I probably would have just ordered the QF Rapid with Cherry Blues myself, but when I demoed the Blues for She Who Must Be Obeyed (using the sound files on this site, of course), the impression was not favourable.
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No, I haven't tried it on a mac, I only use Windows. And yeah the blues are really loud if you bottom out often
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Is it full speed-usb. It does full n-key rollover and 1ms in windows.
Thanks! So, full-speed. That makes it one of a very few that are.
But also, even more puzzling that they couldn't manage to get the NKRO to be compatible with Macs!
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If anyone has got a CM PRO already, and would extract the HID Report details (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=USB+Keyboard+HID+Reports), I could examine it to see if it looks like it would work on the Mac.
Macs can support NKRO, but only if it's done right.
edit: Oh, it switches?!
jupp :) you can switch between NKRO and 6KRO, so if your system has an issue with NKRO when booting or in general, you can switch to 6KRO :)
thanks for the offer to look into the HID table! :)
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Thanks! So, full-speed. That makes it one of a very few that are.
But also, even more puzzling that they couldn't manage to get the NKRO to be compatible with Macs!
is it possible? i thought it wasnt possible...
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jupp :) you can switch between NKRO and 6KRO, so if your system has an issue with NKRO when booting or in general, you can switch to 6KRO :)
thanks for the offer to look into the HID table! :)
I like this idea of switching the KRO mode from the keyboard, and it's cool because it shows there are people actually coding up new tricks rather than just sticking with the same old stuff!
is it possible? i thought it wasnt possible...
It is possible, and proven by hasu, me, and others :-)
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is it possible? i thought it wasnt possible...
It's Real USB 2.0 full speed
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Hello battlesheep, long time no see.