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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dmbr on Sat, 12 May 2012, 00:11:10
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Simple question: What exactly is it about Filcos that sets the brand apart from other mechanical keyboards?
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Why?
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Filcos are made with chopped off unicorn horns.
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I see. So, they're not that great, eh?
Thanks.
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Yes, Filcos are great. My Filco is probably the best keyboard I've ever owned. No regrets.
If you hate unicorns, that's just a bonus.
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Filcos are great because they're endorsed by the #1 keyboard expert on planet earth. It's a good enough reason!
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Come on guys, be nice :(
What exactly sets them apart from, say, Noppoo's quality-wise? I'd really appreciate an earnest reply.
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What dante said. They're extremely simple, easy to use, and quality is evident.
Price is a bit high compared to a Leopold, seeing as though they're extremely similar, I'm interested in trying a Leopold as one of my next boards if I stick with Cherry's.
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two reasons:
1) no detachable cables
2) no bs embedded media functions
keep it simple stupid
camo had media functions
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Because it Pings.
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gross...
Not when I paid only $80 for them :X
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Thanks for the good replies :)
What's bad about media functions, though?
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Filcos are made with chopped off unicorn horns.
Is that a "Legend" movie reference?!
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Filcos have a great feel to them. I wouldn't recommend any other brand.
No one can convince you what you'll like better, you need to figure that part out on your own.
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Can't say that I really noticed much better about them quality wise compared to a Das or a WASDkeyboard (other ones with metal bar stabilizers). While I haven't tried a CM storm myself, it seems like it would be a very good choice for a standard looking mechanical keyboard given its price.
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I say generally less problems out of the box. I think Costar improved the tenkeyless molding for the CM Storm case top. It has less bow in it, inverted T is better aligned, and left side is not too close to the left most key. Though the bottom part of the case feels cheaper, thinner, and more resonant. 1 step forward 2 step back.
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I have a Filco and a Noppoo mini on my desk in front of me, the Filco has much better build quality, the keys are much nicer and it just generally looks amazing.
the Noppoo is still a great board but it does feel like it costs half the price.
Buy a Filco and then work your way down through the other boards :P
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Filcos are made with chopped off unicorn horns.
AAAAAAAAAH!!! WAHT!!!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Those Bastards!!!
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Ripster: What's the serial number range of yours? Mine is made 2011-08.
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Could be early/late batch difference? Mine is 110800107. Your legends don't have the slightly rough surface mine has. The roughness is particularly more noticeable on the side print.
Just destroyed a Ninja key for science! It is lasered. Also destroyed a CM Rapid's logo key, and it is also laser printed.
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http://www.filco.com.tw/product.php?page_id=23&product_id=80
印刷： 雷雕 / PU coating
http://www.filco.com.tw/product.php?page_id=23&product_id=66
印刷： 雷雕 / PU coating
雷雕=lasered.
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What makes Filco keyboards so great is that they aren't special or gimicky. They are basic, no frills, and of high quality. No extra keys, no media keys, no flashy colors (other than special editions).....
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What is the advantage of having an attached cable? I would think detachable is better, since a cable can be damaged and troubleshooting a bad attached cable would be a major pain.
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I think squarebox is right. (However, I am assuming that the Filco numpad and Filco boards utilizes same printing technique.)
Here is x60 photo of Filco numpad I have been using on and off for 5 years. It is * key. It is stained a bit due to use.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]50128[/ATTACH]
There are dots, suggesting they may be laser burned. I looked at couple of pad printed keys on my Thinkpad, I could not see any dots like this.
I am not sure if there are more than one kind of pad prints, but judging from the dots and the edges created by the dots, I am going to call this laser burned.
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The above is copy of my previous post (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?29302-The-only-place-on-the-planet-for-this&p=564499&viewfull=1#post564499).
Also, it would be not very economic to do pad print on the side of the keys, while it is pretty easy to do side print with laser.
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What is the advantage of having an attached cable? I would think detachable is better, since a cable can be damaged and troubleshooting a bad attached cable would be a major pain.
I totally agree, and this is one of my very few complaints about Filcos, which are otherwise my go-to keyboard of choice these days. CMQF Storms are starting to win me over though. I understand that Costar makes both Filcos and CMQF. I still contend that Filco just feels better built. Kind of like driving a BMW. CMQF is like driving a Subaru. They are both well built, but the Filco is tighter. The CMQF has branding all over it like a kid's Tonka toy, and just feels a wee bit more flimsy.
That gorram hardwired 2m cable on the Filco just pisses me off to no end though. I like to hook up a keyboard to my Air, and while the TKL fits fine, that long dangling cable is annoying, and DANGEROUS when moving about. I have more than once caught it on a door handle and very nearly sent $3000 worth of equipment crashing to the ground. That isn't even a concern with a 12" cable with a right angle mini-b USB attachment.
Also, while Filco's "media keys" appear only on the Camo keyboard, they SUCK. Filco decided to obliterate the Alt key on the left side of the keyboard in order to install their FN key (let's call that the ****N stupid key). Meanwhile, CMQF appears to have been designed by someone with more than fish for brains. They obliterate the key I don't even have a name for... the "list of crap with a cursor arrow on it" key, to use as the "media key" activator. This is wonderful! Every key works like it should, but you still have access to screen brightness and quick volume control with a two-key combination.
If CMQF would come in a Filco build quality, just a bit more solidly built, and without all the damn branding all over it, they would be hard to touch--particularly at their price point!
Oh, one other small difference: Filco puts the capslock, scrolllock lights over above the six-pack. CMQF puts the lights in the keys themselves. I'm torn on which I prefer, but since I rarely use any of those keys it's almost moot (except when capslock gets switched on accidentally and passwords stop working :-P)
This post was brought to you by a CMQF MXReds with RagRed keycaps. I don't have a Filco Reds, so I can't compare, but this CMQF feels every bit as solid as my Filcos, so maybe they have improved in the last few months. My primary comparison is Filco Blues vs. CMQF Blues.
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Filco appears to be a super keyboard. But my experience told me otherwise. You have to be lucky to have a perfect condition Filco. If one of my Filcos didn't have the flaw to register a key twice, it pinged, which annoyed me. I will never buy a Filco again. It is hype , if you ask me. I'd rather buy a CMStorm Quickfire or pendants (like mstones groove87: http://idfkr.com/front/php/product.php?product_no=150&main_cate_no=&display_group=)
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In my opinion, overpriced and rare. You can receive the same quality from other boards with a few minor drawbacks.
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Japanese QC is pretty high and the case isn't rounded.
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That's why yours are lasered and mine are pad printed.
(Attachment) 50064[/ATTACH]
The local distributor was having a promo for 10 pieces of camo for USD$80. They still can be found at retail level around USD$145.
I guess it sucks to be number 2... Always gets ignored...
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I own several keyboards and two Filcos are the best ones. They are high quality, sturdy and reliable keyboard. The price may be a bit expensive, but I see them as investment in working environments - I type a lot in my career.
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I own several keyboards and two Filcos are the best ones. They are high quality, sturdy and reliable keyboard. The price may be a bit expensive, but I see them as investment in working environments - I type a lot in my career.
Can you explain why? Not just you, but anyone else who's been saying this. Looking through this thread, few people have offered any real evidence except laffindude, and captain and ting, two of which had negative opinions. I can't say that I ever thought that a Leopold for example was low quality, flimsy or unreliable. Of course here the stabilizers are different, but compared to a Das or CM storm, I can't honestly say it is much different outside of aesthetics. Simple design, non-rounded corners, non-glossy finish etc are personal choices that do not affect quality.
I'm not saying that it's not a good keyboard, but I don't see it being that much better than other similar things.
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Can you explain why? Not just you, but anyone else who's been saying this. Looking through this thread, few people have offered any real evidence except laffindude, and captain and ting, two of which had negative opinions. I can't say that I ever thought that a Leopold for example was low quality, flimsy or unreliable. Of course here the stabilizers are different, but compared to a Das or CM storm, I can't honestly say it is much different outside of aesthetics. Simple design, non-rounded corners, non-glossy finish etc are personal choices that do not affect quality.
I'm not saying that it's not a good keyboard, but I don't see it being that much better than other similar things.
It's simple, no gimmicks, has great quality and finish. It's just a more thought-out product unlike the other brands.
It give you the sense that they actually did put in a considerable amount of rnd/effort into making/designing the Filco.
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Well I had my linear R at work for about a month with doubleshots. I am now typing on my CMstorm w/ reds and doubleshots for about a month now as well and can tell 0 difference in typing experience. But then you have the ugly logo's!
Yes people have been debranding Cmstorms and they look awesome; But I still don't think anything can beat Filco for quality AND looks for cherry mx boards.
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It's simple, no gimmicks, has great quality and finish. It's just a more thought-out product unlike the other brands.
It give you the sense that they actually did put in a considerable amount of rnd/effort into making/designing the Filco.
How does it make sense to say it does less but is more thought out? Sure, it does everything most would ever want their keyboard to do, but so does the $5 rubberdome from a features standpoint. If anything, it's the gimmicks that required thought—sometimes just not in the right direction. Filco just does a good job at everything an otherwise generic keyboard has been doing for a while.
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There are so many opinion threads like this and it's to the point where it's irritating...
People have different opinions. Filco keyboards do absolutely nothing better than any other keyboard out there. They have mechanical switches, which are a PREFERENCE and therefore cannot be viewed as a "plus".
It's a keyboard enthusiast forum, hence the positive and negative feedback to your question. People collect different types of boards and because of this, it causes them to find every slight difference there is to be found.
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I have a Filco Brown TKL and a Noppoo Choc Mini also brown...
I have to say the Noppoo is my favourite by quite a margin...
I think it is because of the keycaps though. I have already decided I much much much prefer POM keycaps, I like the texture and the way it bottoms out although I do not bottom it out half as much as I used to. I like the layering too and the switch keys. The colour is nice and it is quite cool with the legends colours. Size is also a plus.
Having said that the Filco feels much better made, the stabilisers don't rattle almost at all and you can see it is a quality product with the red WASD and Escape caps it is really really nice to look at.
Overall though if it was not for the lack of Mac support from the noppoo then I'd simply buy a couple of them, maybe a black with browns and a white with reds and be done with it. Now I have ordered a Poker with reds to keep on my gaming computer.
I am new here and I might get tossed to the dogs for what I just said but it is just my opinion anyway.
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Don't know why you'd get tossed to the dogs...you're expressing your opinion like everyone else.
It's nice to see someone not following the crowd!
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My Majestouch2 is my favourite keyboard.
It is simple with high quality construction. That pretty much sums it up. Nothing extra to interfere with changing the keys, or anything else.
The keys (ABS) also seem to last longer than some other boards I've had. My RK-9000 (MJ1 twin) board's keys started to discolour very quickly, my MJ2 still haven't after months.
When compared to the CMStorm QFR the MJ2 has the following positives:
1. LED indicators that aren't on the keys (it's hard to find key replacements with LED windows)
2. The MJ2 isn't plastered with crazy branding everywhere (on keys and keyboard)
3. The MJ2 has a normal font
I would be 100% satisfied with my MJ2 if it had a detachable cable. I like the fact that a great number of my previous keyboards could just unplug from the cable and plug in the next one. But I don't change my keyboards now that I've settled down to this MJ2, so it's not a big deal.
Media keys aren't a factor. You can use any key mapping tool you want to and create your own media keys.
The QFR is a great board with ugly branding and keys (keys easily fixed, if you don't mind losing the in key indicator LEDs). You can't beat it's quality for the low price. But the Filco MJ2 is that step up. No shame in owning either, or both. :rolleyes:
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Can you explain why? Not just you, but anyone else who's been saying this. Looking through this thread, few people have offered any real evidence except laffindude, and captain and ting, two of which had negative opinions. I can't say that I ever thought that a Leopold for example was low quality, flimsy or unreliable. Of course here the stabilizers are different, but compared to a Das or CM storm, I can't honestly say it is much different outside of aesthetics. Simple design, non-rounded corners, non-glossy finish etc are personal choices that do not affect quality.
I'm not saying that it's not a good keyboard, but I don't see it being that much better than other similar things.
While I don't think Filco is the beacon of perfection, I think they're pretty consistent in quality. Looking for perfection in a mass produced product is a fools errand, since most keyboards do have problems if you look closely enough (some more than the others of course, and this is the reason why you should look.). The same problem could be nitpick to one, and serious flaw to other. Keep in mind the Filco's bow is ~1mm, and likewise for the inverted T alignment. Make your own judgment on which side that statement is on.
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Buying untested Chinese Clone keyboards that don't work on OSX is rewarding mediocrity when a true Geekhacker should be striving for excellence in all things.
I will bite... Which keyboard are they trying to clone with the Noppoo?
And I am not really speaking without having a Filco, I do have a Filco :) so yes untested and incompatible with OS X the Noppoo might be but even so it is still a fantastic keyboard as far as I am concerned.
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Filco uses ABS keys? lol. Buy any other keyboard and then put the extra money to POM keys.
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I love POM keys. They are my current choice of keycap on my Poker. They are heavy and thick and that give unique feel and typing sound. Lower resonance due to smaller space under the key caps.
I don't mind the greasiness because I don't really sweat / my fingers are not that greasy / I don't eat while in front of a computer.
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Can you explain why? Not just you, but anyone else who's been saying this. Looking through this thread, few people have offered any real evidence except laffindude, and captain and ting, two of which had negative opinions. I can't say that I ever thought that a Leopold for example was low quality, flimsy or unreliable. Of course here the stabilizers are different, but compared to a Das or CM storm, I can't honestly say it is much different outside of aesthetics. Simple design, non-rounded corners, non-glossy finish etc are personal choices that do not affect quality.
I'm not saying that it's not a good keyboard, but I don't see it being that much better than other similar things.
I think I like it because of its quality. To explain in details why I like it just invite more reasons and opinions which are discussed again and again and again and again.
Social sciences can be summarized in one sentence: some do, and some don't.
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Everyone, including myself seems has missed the original question.
Simple question: What exactly is it about Filcos that sets the brand apart from other mechanical keyboards?
The answer is quite simple; the Filco brand is better established. Due in part to things like aesthetic appeal, pricing, quality, and history.
Xamor, Deck, and Realforce are not even mentioned in this thread. So it's kind of clear that this thread is really about imitators vs originators.
Ducky, Leopold, CM... are relatively new to the game, and it's pretty clear they're chasing after the Filco market. I'm not saying one way or the other which keyboard is the better. Branding isn't built overnight and these companies are doing their best to unseat the king by innovating and improving their keyboards, but that doesn't nullify all the good will Filco already has.
Hyundai may produce a luxury car on par with Mercedes, but at the end of the day they're not Mercedes.
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Simple question: What exactly is it about Filcos that sets the brand apart from other mechanical keyboards?
Because your peers - who probably know only as much as you do or are lost in purchase justification - say so. Go ahead, you know you want to.
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Because quality, try fiscal then the ducky and you'll know what I mean
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http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?31239-Compact-mechanical-keyboard-with-light-keys&p=594952&viewfull=1#post594952
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What ABOUT those removeable cables versus nice simple designs?
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?22025-TIL-%28Today-I-Learned%29-Ripster-Trivia-Of-The-Day&p=594809&viewfull=1#post594809
Rosewill is Newegg's rebranding of garbage keyboards. And I agree, Poker USB hubs are janky at best, but the CM Storm does it right:
(http://www.cmstorm.com/images/products/34/image_199.jpg)
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MOSTLY right; they don't leave enough space in that little alcove for a *standard* USB plug, so you have to use their special, short connector, cables. >:-( Just one more measly cm of space and it would have been perfect. I think it's getting close to time to gender-reassign a Filco.
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I was using the regular cable I used with my Pokers.
MOSTLY right; they don't leave enough space in that little alcove for a *standard* USB plug, so you have to use their special, short connector, cables. >:-( Just one more measly cm of space and it would have been perfect. I think it's getting close to time to gender-reassign a Filco.
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Captain is wrong a lot. Better to ignore.
*Noted
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I like the color. Still wish it would come with a removable cable :P
Hah, I can't even get that Elitekeyboards dude to admit he'll ship the FC700’s soon.
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?25167-No-Shift-Sherlock-New-Leopolds-Thick-PBT-Keys-Sherlock-Observations&p=588647&viewfull=1#post588647
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?? It does have removable cable.
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?? It does have removable cable.
There goes my fail reading comprehension again.... need more coffee...
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.....Rush hour...
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.....Rush hour...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]50841[/ATTACH]
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This rush hour...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]50842[/ATTACH]
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I own a Majestouch 2 in brown’s and can say that for myself it is the best keyboard I have used due to its superb quality, simple design, and consistent typing feel/ergonomics. The height of the keys starting from the bottom row all the way to the top row is just perfect in height and separation. It is not something you would notice on its own but I also tried the DAS silent, Ducky Shining, CM quickfire pro, and Razer blackwidow. I prefer the Filco board for my hands due to the superior ergonomics and better typing “feel”.
I read some other posts around the net comparing the CM quickfire to the Filco and could not disagree more. I’ve unboxed three quickfire pro boards, one of which had serious quality control issues. The quality of materials on the CM board feels much cheaper compared to the Filco. The keycaps on the CM also sit too high for my liking and is very difficult to type on. The keys themselves don’t provide the same consistent feel as my Filco does.
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Quickfire Pro is not the same as Quickfire Rapid.
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Ah ok i've never tried the Rapid. My comparison is only for the Quickfire Pro.
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because it starts with F and ends with a big O.
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because it starts with F and ends with a big O.
So glad you took the effort to bring up a 2 year old thread for such a helpful reply. :rolleyes:
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i can't really describe this, it's just all the combination of the build and feel. i've tested a lot of boards and nothing beats a filco. my newest TKL with browns arrived today, can't wait to get home to unpack it. :)
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It's the rigid pbt casing, dual layer pcb, and simple timeless design that makes it so appealing. No other keyboard has those three combined together imho.
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It's the rigid pbt casing, dual layer pcb, and simple timeless design that makes it so appealing. No other keyboard has those three combined together imho.
I think the case is one of the biggest things people overlook when they recommend a QFR over a Filco. The solid, textured, PBT case of the Filco is way better than the rubber-coated QFR.
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It's the rigid pbt casing, dual layer pcb, and simple timeless design that makes it so appealing. No other keyboard has those three combined together imho.
I think the case is one of the biggest things people overlook when they recommend a QFR over a Filco. The solid, textured, PBT case of the Filco is way better than the rubber-coated QFR.
Yes, the QFR case is complete garbage compared to the filco case.
It upsets me every time I see someone say the QFR is practically a filco(quality wise), having owned 2 QFRs and a filco, the filco is so much better.
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These ****ing necros lately. Just make a new thread.
I remember a video that I watched when I was considering a Filco ( I think it was whitefiredragon ) where he took apart a QFR and Filco and talked about the differences. I remember QFR has terrible soldering among some other things.
Anyways I think most people who recommend a QFR's have actually never tried other mechanical keyboards.
Although that isn't to say that people who recommend Filco are fair judges either.
I think most people are just tired of the assumption that same ODM costar equals same product.
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It was necro-ed because it shows up in my "show new replied to your posts" page.
what is QFR? Quickfire something?
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These ****ing necros lately. Just make a new thread.
At the forums I used to moderate/administer years ago, we called them zombies. Very trendy now, you know! :D
I remember a video that I watched when I was considering a Filco ( I think it was whitefiredragon ) where he took apart a QFR and Filco and talked about the differences. I remember QFR has terrible soldering among some other things.
No kidding. My QuickFire Stealth just failed due to awful soldering: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54963.0
The QuickFire case is indeed not as nice as Filco's, but it's not horrible either. I've seen much worse.
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Isn't it better to necro old threads as it encourage people to use Search function and read through a discussion instead of create duplicate post. I can't believe the number of 'how does topre feel' or 'wads v2 vs Filco' thread I've seen here!
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Isn't it better to necro old threads as it encourage people to use Search function and read through a discussion instead of create duplicate post. I can't believe the number of 'how does topre feel' or 'wads v2 vs Filco' thread I've seen here!
This may be the case, but a necro for someone to write what they did is hardly appropriate, IMO.
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It was necro-ed because it shows up in my "show new replied to your posts" page.
what is QFR? Quickfire something?
QuickFire Rapid
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Isn't it better to necro old threads as it encourage people to use Search function and read through a discussion instead of create duplicate post. I can't believe the number of 'how does topre feel' or 'wads v2 vs Filco' thread I've seen here!
This is true.
Filcos are very nicely built and that it was you are paying for, just be aware of Filco ping on the stabilised keys.
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Isn't it better to necro old threads as it encourage people to use Search function and read through a discussion instead of create duplicate post. I can't believe the number of 'how does topre feel' or 'wads v2 vs Filco' thread I've seen here!
This is true.
Filcos are very nicely built and that it was you are paying for, just be aware of Filco ping on the stabilised keys.
It happens to more than just the stabilized keys. My "O" and "L" keys have a noticeable ping to them but none of my stabilized keys.
Overall Filco just makes an excellent keyboard. I chose it over the Leopolds because of their goofy spacebar. I liked the Filco PBT case way better than the QFR rubber coated case. I chose it over the Duckys because I don't like their gaudy backlighting. I even like the non-removable cable because it means I don't have to worry about a mini-USB port breaking.
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Simple question: What exactly is it about Filcos that sets the brand apart from other mechanical keyboards?
I have one, I can see the appeal, but I literally bought a Filco TKL used it once and then packed it back away.
The good?
The build quality is absolutely fantastic.
It feels sturdy.
Feels nice to type on.
Simplistic.
The bad?
The Keycaps are horrible (the feel of them, abs or pom, not sure what they are)
The size, TKL is just not for me (this is a personal preference and not an actual fault of the keyboard, I'm just too used to 75% boards).
I don't think they're worth the price though, I paid around $120 for mine (this is in GBP not USD btw, so in USD it would be around $199.66 lol)
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Japanese QC is pretty high and the case isn't rounded.
Stop using two letter acronyms. It's annoying as.
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Japanese QC is pretty high and the case isn't rounded.
Stop using two letter acronyms. It's annoying as.
Stop necroing threads and being a general prick. It's annoying as.
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I paid around $120 for mine (this is in GBP not USD btw, so in USD it would be around $199.66 lol)
Why would you put '$' in front of the number if its in GBP... I am sure you can get it for cheaper through Diatec or Amazon even.
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Isn't there a big red notification that the thread is over 120 days old?