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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Astounding on Tue, 05 June 2012, 11:19:09
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So about a year ago after careful research I decided to order a Leopold tenkeyless with cherry MX blues. I went with this option instead of the Filco, because it was implied that the quality would be comparable. This is NOT TRUE.
Update time! THIS KEYBOARD SUCKS.
I wouldn't recommend it to my WORST ENEMY!!! I had to send it back to fix a repeating key within 2 months, and now out of warranty another 3 are failing!!!
I paid over 110 dollars for this thing and it breaks 4 times within a year! Get the CoolerMaster instead, its 75 dollars and comes with red wasd and a free key puller. Or just get a vintage IBM model M or new Unicomp.
I've been ripped off!!!! Don't fall for it like I did.
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Or get the Filco :) sorry to hear that you had a bad experience.
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Could have same issue with any board from any manufacturer. Not everything that rolls out of the factory will be perfect. Just because you had bad luck with one keyboard does not mean all of them are no good. I've seen same complaint about costar made boards as well, they aren't always perfect either. Also it seems blues may be more susceptible to this chatter / repeating problem, see this issue posted most about blues boards.
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I own 2 Leopolds. One w/ blues and one w/ browns and have never had a single problem with either of them. I have used the one w/ browns for over a year and couldn't be happier so I think you just got a bad board. I think you need to quit making assumptions about a company based on one keyboard.
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I agree with Rafen for sure. I had a Filco Majestouch that had the same problems that you described, now a whole cluster of keys don't even work at all. It's just one keyboard. Doesn't mean Filco is crappy.
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See, you just prove that Filco is just as crap. So quality is equal, just as you believed when you bought the Leopold OP. :yo:
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make sure your switches aren't sticky, go shoot some compress air into them.
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Wow this is an awfully dramatic thread. My dad's got a Leopold and it is just as good as my Filco near as I can tell. I also just received a CM Storm Rapid and they all are comparable. It's just the luck of the draw with electronics. Every company has a bad batch.
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This does seem overly dramatic. One bad experience does not equate to a universally bad product. If Leopold truly made a sub-par keyboard, that conclusion would have been reached here long ago, given the high level of OCD on enthusiast forums like this one. I don't own a Leopold, and I'm sorry the OP had a bad experience, but this doesn't change my thoughts on buying one in the future.
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I've had a Leopold with Reds for over a year now (and I bought it used). Works fine bro.
This is like one of those Yelp reviews that doesn't offer any good constructive criticism! I will say though, I've seen a decent amount of Leopold rant posts over the last year...
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I'm not sure if I'd call anger over a device with a triple digit price dying within a year overly dramatic...
Even if there are lots of people here willing to invest lots of money in the hobby, and even if there are also lots of people who have no problems with similar products, none of that changes the fact that for many, $110 is a decent chunk of cash, which the OP is now out, doubtless long before he planned/budgeted to have to replace his keyboard.
Besides, if everyone just figured that they were an exception when things went wrong, wouldn't it be harder for us to find out when someone actually is releasing a sub-par product?
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I have had my leopold with no problems. I feel leopold is a great buy for price at the moment.
It sucks you are having problems, but at least you have the warranty.
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This is a prime example of the Mcgeezaks effect.
edit: for my serious response, I own three and have experienced no oddities except once in unix while using vim
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I'm not sure if I'd call anger over a device with a triple digit price dying within a year overly dramatic...
This thread is overly dramatic. Being pissed and explaining that you're pissed and out a bunch of money because a device died is one thing (but I'm sure it'll be replaced by Leopold again anyway), but saying that everything they make is CRAP and you wouldn't wish it on your WORST ENEMY because the build quality is crap is just dramatic. There are plenty of people here that will vouch for Leopold and their quality so getting one or two boards that just happen to being faulty doesn't mean the entire company needs to be folded. The OP could actually be causing the failures themselves for all we know.
To recap, yes, you can be pissed and explain your troubles for the whole world to see so they can make a decision on a board, but the dramatics are unnecessary and just flat out incorrect in their intent.
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I'm not sure if I'd call anger over a device with a triple digit price dying within a year overly dramatic...
Even if there are lots of people here willing to invest lots of money in the hobby, and even if there are also lots of people who have no problems with similar products, none of that changes the fact that for many, $110 is a decent chunk of cash, which the OP is now out, doubtless long before he planned/budgeted to have to replace his keyboard.
Besides, if everyone just figured that they were an exception when things went wrong, wouldn't it be harder for us to find out when someone actually is releasing a sub-par product?
I didn't mean to imply that the OP has no right to be upset. You can bet I'd be mad! And I also agree that it should be reported, so, as you say, we can figure out which products are sub-par. I just think that saying "I had a bad experience. Therefore, this product is bad and no one should buy it." is not the logical conclusion to draw.
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If you feel like opening up the board. I had this theory that cracked ROHS solder is to blame for these chattering problems. Take a soldering iron and just heat the leads and let cool, see if that fixes it.
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If you feel like opening up the board. I had this theory that cracked ROHS solder is to blame for these chattering problems. Take a soldering iron and just heat the leads and let cool, see if that fixes it.
I have seen some real crap due to lead free solder as well.
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I'm having a hard time believing this, as Ive been caught in the hype of the Leopold reading here and on youtube, but I just registered to support this thread as I received the Leopold Tenkeyless today and the "a" key doesn't work at all (tried it on different computers, and it seems physically fine).
This is just unnaceptable for a $120 very basic keyboard, incredible lack of professionalism...
also, less important but another thing I expect from a "high-class" keyboard is that it should work on the startup of my computer (I have to press some touch while still in the DOS thingy) but it doesn't until Windows start.. So I still have another keyboard just to open my computer.
Im so frustrated x_x
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lol. I already contacted them, of course. By posting this Im just hoping that someone won't make the same error as me.
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So because you bought a keyboard and one switch doesn't work you want to throw the "Leopold" name under the bus? This world is full of morons. If you want to ***** at someone for your "a" not working why don't you call cherry, instead of bashing Leopold who does make very good quality keyboards.
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So about a year ago after careful research I decided to order a Leopold tenkeyless with cherry MX blues. I went with this option instead of the Filco, because it was implied that the quality would be comparable. This is NOT TRUE.
Update time! THIS KEYBOARD SUCKS.
I wouldn't recommend it to my WORST ENEMY!!! I had to send it back to fix a repeating key within 2 months, and now out of warranty another 3 are failing!!!
I paid over 110 dollars for this thing and it breaks 4 times within a year! Get the CoolerMaster instead, its 75 dollars and comes with red wasd and a free key puller. Or just get a vintage IBM model M or new Unicomp.
I've been ripped off!!!! Don't fall for it like I did.
Hi Astounding, I'm sorry to hear you've had so many problems with your keyboard. It is in fact pretty rare that you should have so many problems, but even though the manufacturers warranty is stated as 1 year, we pretty much repair simple things like this at no cost for as long as you own it. Please email support@elitekeyboards.com (granted you purchased it from us).
Truth be told, as far as this issue being systemic to Leopolds...this couldn't be farther from the truth. I have several boxes of FILCOs in storage from when we used to sell them that had so many switch chattering problems, entire groups of switches or rows, that we had to replace them. Sometimes it is due to bad switches, sometimes issues with the solder joints or board construction, and sometimes because someone took a silly recommendation they read on the web that they blow air into their delicate Cherry switches... And for the record, statistically, Leopolds are an improvement in reliability over Majestouch 1 series boards.
In any case, we can help you, so please ask:)
Maybe if you call EliteKeyboards (yes, call) and try to ask someone (nicely) for help you might be surprised.
I recommend sending an e-mail in any case, as we don't have someone by the phones 24/7, but we do make a big effort to respond to all support emails within 24 hours.
I'm having a hard time believing this, as Ive been caught in the hype of the Leopold reading here and on youtube, but I just registered to support this thread as I received the Leopold Tenkeyless today and the "a" key doesn't work at all (tried it on different computers, and it seems physically fine).
This is just unnaceptable for a $120 very basic keyboard, incredible lack of professionalism...
also, less important but another thing I expect from a "high-class" keyboard is that it should work on the startup of my computer (I have to press some touch while still in the DOS thingy) but it doesn't until Windows start.. So I still have another keyboard just to open my computer.
Im so frustrated x_x
wizagab, This isn't acceptable performance at all. If you purchased this from EliteKeyboards then please contact support@elitekeyboards.com
Also, maybe off-topic, but I define the word professional as someone who is responsible for their work. I can't promise perfect engineering, quality control, or 100% reliability, but we will make our best effort to make sure you don't get a lemon and have a fully functioning product for as long as possible.
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In reply to Raging Salmon :
lol dis fanboy..
What do you mean "write them off", I wrote my experience by stating facts. It is awful. Of course I expect them to make up for it but it won't make the experience positive in the end. (well maybe if they give me some free keycaps lol)
As for the keyboard I will say that I love the look tho the keys feel a little better than Blackwidow Ultimate. The sound of the "backspace" is kinda annoying, not sure if its normal. Can't say that I'm really impressed overall, I just don't see where the money go in this keyboard, especially when it is obviously not hand-crafted n meticulously verified. Imo at regular price with the shipping to Canada, it is a complete steal, so at $89 it doesn't feel like a deal.
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Hai elitekeyboards, yes I did send an email and have just see the response.
It seems like it will be all good soon, which I expected, so thank you for this.
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And there you have it. Thread over.
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Keyboard broke again a couple months after I got it back from repair by EliteKeyboards. I still say stay away.
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So about a year ago after careful research I decided to order a Leopold tenkeyless with cherry MX blues. I went with this option instead of the Filco, because it was implied that the quality would be comparable. This is NOT TRUE.
Update time! THIS KEYBOARD SUCKS.
I wouldn't recommend it to my WORST ENEMY!!! I had to send it back to fix a repeating key within 2 months, and now out of warranty another 3 are failing!!!
I paid over 110 dollars for this thing and it breaks 4 times within a year! Get the CoolerMaster instead, its 75 dollars and comes with red wasd and a free key puller. Or just get a vintage IBM model M or new Unicomp.
I've been ripped off!!!! Don't fall for it like I did.
Or you can buy a Dell rubber dome keyboard for $5 and have 0 failures in the first 5 years.
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So about a year ago after careful research I decided to order a Leopold tenkeyless with cherry MX blues. I went with this option instead of the Filco, because it was implied that the quality would be comparable. This is NOT TRUE.
Update time! THIS KEYBOARD SUCKS.
I wouldn't recommend it to my WORST ENEMY!!! I had to send it back to fix a repeating key within 2 months, and now out of warranty another 3 are failing!!!
I paid over 110 dollars for this thing and it breaks 4 times within a year! Get the CoolerMaster instead, its 75 dollars and comes with red wasd and a free key puller. Or just get a vintage IBM model M or new Unicomp.
I've been ripped off!!!! Don't fall for it like I did.
Or you can buy a Dell rubber dome keyboard for $5 and have 0 failures in the first 5 years.
The only thing that fails more than this keyboard is your post.
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the ONLY real reason I'd get a FILCO above a QFR is if I intend to do alot of soldering..
The laminate and traces on the QFR PCB is Not as tough as the filco, basically it can easily be burnt off even with my temperature controlled iron...
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I'm onto my 2nd Leopold in 6 months, hoping this is my last :)
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I'm onto my 2nd Leopold in 6 months, hoping this is my last :)
question for you, is the FC700 chassis also PBT? and How's the color matching between Caps and Case,, could you possibly take a picture "WITHOUT FLASH"
I ask because I think my mom would like one. :D
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The case is like smooth painted hard plastic feel.. The keys are slightly whiter than the keyboard, it has a slight hint of cream in the color. I will take a picture later on.
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Key switches on these boards are all made by Cherry.
It doesn't matter if it's Cooler Master, Filco, Leopold, KBT, or even a hand built custom... If Cherry sends them bad switches, you get a bad keyboard.
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I thought they (Filco + Leopold) were produced by the same manufacturer?
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I thought they (Filco + Leopold) were produced by the same manufacturer?
CM QFR and Filco are, Leopold no.
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I thought the Leopold had the same OEM as the QFR because the Leopold also has the "cable routing" ridges underneath the case.
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I thought they (Filco + Leopold) were produced by the same manufacturer?
It doesn't matter who puts the little bits together, all of the switches still come from Cherry.
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If this is the keyboard that has been fixed multiple times, it might just have an underlying fault that manifests itself in all these little problems.
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If this is the keyboard that has been fixed multiple times, it might just have an underlying fault that manifests itself in all these little problems.
Keyboard is one of those things that if You can't get the warranty for it, just buy another one... Why even put in the displeasing thought about it like "the world has wronged you"... $100 compared to several days of being pissed off... sheesh...
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If this is the keyboard that has been fixed multiple times, it might just have an underlying fault that manifests itself in all these little problems.
Keyboard is one of those things that if You can't get the warranty for it, just buy another one... Why even put in the displeasing thought about it like "the world has wronged you"... $100 compared to several days of being pissed off... sheesh...
Good thinking.
I like to assume that 20% of my PC purchases will end up not working properly.
So just include them in my budget.
Also means you spend less sometimes, and end up less disappointed when **** hits the fan.
But I can understand where OP is coming from. But just buy another one and never buy a Leopold again.
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I like my Leopold and haven't had a problem with it.
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I think when I did the OEM Review thread a few of the members mentioned they have made in Taiwan Leopold while others have made in China Leopold.
So I suspect Leopold also pulled a Das and switch OEM silently hoping no one would realize.
Maybe it's time for someone to do a Old Leopold vs New Leopold review? (this is just assumption I could be wrong)
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I bought my Leopold about 2 months ago and have no problems with it. The build quality is solid, especially when you consider the price.
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So about a year ago after careful research I decided to order a Leopold tenkeyless with cherry MX blues. I went with this option instead of the Filco, because it was implied that the quality would be comparable. This is NOT TRUE.
Update time! THIS KEYBOARD SUCKS.
I wouldn't recommend it to my WORST ENEMY!!! I had to send it back to fix a repeating key within 2 months, and now out of warranty another 3 are failing!!!
I paid over 110 dollars for this thing and it breaks 4 times within a year! Get the CoolerMaster instead, its 75 dollars and comes with red wasd and a free key puller. Or just get a vintage IBM model M or new Unicomp.
I've been ripped off!!!! Don't fall for it like I did.
I am so sorry to hear that man. Which model are you talking about tho?
My FC700R Cherry MX Blue is perfectly fine :)
I've heard some ppl complaining about the same problem that you had about FC700R, but every other keyboard companies have some problems.
It's just a matter of luck i think. some ppl are lucky, some ppl are unlucky, in your case, i think u were very very unlucky, i'm sorry.
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Key switches on these boards are all made by Cherry.
It doesn't matter if it's Cooler Master, Filco, Leopold, KBT, or even a hand built custom... If Cherry sends them bad switches, you get a bad keyboard.
sooo true!!
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If a switch stops working, it is probably not the switch itself, but more likely the PCB or the Switch-PCB joint.
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Leopold was my first keyboard just about a year ago and I have had 0 problems with it, I no longer use it daily but it still works perfect the only problem I had with it is how bright the blue led's are on the scroll-lock and caps lock, almost blinding.
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no issues with a Leopold here.
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I was, at one point, having issues with a Leopold, but it turns out that my KVM was just a pile of crap. No issues after pulling that part out of the equation.
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The main materials quality difference between the big three (Filco, QFR, and Leo) is the PCB. The Leo and QFR PCBs are of a comparable type, however it shouldn't really matter as long as the keyboard was assembled properly. My Leo had several switches that were not fully seated and would likely have resulted in eventual failure. I only used it for about a week before I took it apart to mod it and noticed this. Some folks with QFRs had similar problems and the cause seemed to be the same: delaminated PCB pads due to key switch movement which results in broken traces. If you've ever modded a plate-mount keyboard, you know that this can happen fairly easily. Each switch has to be pressed into place as it is soldered.
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This is not the experience that I have had with my Leopold at all. :eek:
I originally picked up a TKL w/ blue switches, and the difference in the typing experience had me hooked immediately. I ended up getting a second TKL w/ brown switches for home, mostly because I didn't want to research out another board, but needed something to help with RSI in my wrists/arms. Both boards have been working great for over a year.
I'm surprised to hear about the issues you are having, but I do appreciate the info to help with future keyboard purchases.
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This is like one of those Yelp reviews that doesn't offer any good constructive criticism!
He bought a product and it didn't work. He even explained the exact manner in which the product failed. How is that not constructive criticism?
I will say though, I've seen a decent amount of Leopold rant posts over the last year...
So any time someone buys a defective product and they admit to it in public, you accuse them of "ranting"?
Or is it only a "rant" because he used exclamation points?
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so at $89 it doesn't feel like a deal.
$89 is expensive to you? Ooooo gurl u aint seen nuttin yet.
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its funny u say that, because before i bought my filco i wanted a leopold, and because of this post I still want one to this day. :)
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Or you can buy a Dell rubber dome keyboard for $5 and have 0 failures in the first 5 years.
The keyboard may not fail in the first 5 years but if you type on it heavily, writing code all day then your hands definitely may fail on you.
Rubberdome keyboards are a big scam to transfer money out of your bank account into the bank accounts of doctors, surgeons and pharmaceutical companies.
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My leopold is only 2 months old and was made in Taiwan. So if they did switch manufacturers, they must have done it very recently.
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This reminds me of my reaction to razer products. I have broken one of their mice, and one of their keyboards, and now i won't buy anything from them :P
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Certainly sucks to have problems like this.
Being in Europe I sometimes need to order from Usa, or China etc. so if I ever have problems warranty won't help me too much. Can only hope I get lucky I guess because there's no one in close proximity (shipping price-wise) to help me. :(
I am seriously considering learning some basic electronics and soldering, could certainly save me some money if I have problems like that...
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Sorry to hear this OP. I have been in your shoes ( not with keyboard *knock on wood* but other electronics). However I am not sure if one malfunctioning keyboard is enough to say something about a brand in general. Shame you had such a bad experience.
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What models are you having issues with? You really can't just say "Don't buy ANY leopold because my one mystery model number board had issues". I know of FC200, FC300, FC500, FC700, and several more just came out, or are about to be released. I've used the FC700R and it was better than any Filco or QFR that I used, but I sold it because of the stupid spacebar stabilizer spacing and incompatibility with after market sets. Really I just didn't want to mod every spacebar for every custom set I ordered, and everything else is good enough.
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My Leopold FC200 pooped out after I did an Ergo-Clear mod to it. I think i ruined some of the traces, so... meh. Not Leo's fault, IMO.
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My FC200R with blues is really flaky, and it has not been modded. My FC200R with clears is working fantastically. Both of them were in my hands in November 2011.
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Holy crap... I did buy my Leopold that long ago. 0.0
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I have two leopolds and the only bad thing I can say about them is the damn non standard spacebar.
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but I sold it because of the stupid spacebar stabilizer spacing and incompatibility with after market sets. Really I just didn't want to mod every spacebar for every custom set I ordered, and everything else is good enough.
I banned Leopold from receiving any $$$ from my bank account for the exact same reason.
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but I sold it because of the stupid spacebar stabilizer spacing and incompatibility with after market sets. Really I just didn't want to mod every spacebar for every custom set I ordered, and everything else is good enough.
I banned Leopold from receiving any $$$ from my bank account for the exact same reason.
Is there any leo that has a standard space bar?
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I just put different keys on and leave the black spacebar. Still looks pretty good to me!
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I just put different keys on and leave the black spacebar. Still looks pretty good to me!
I have a full Klaxon set on mine...Yay for universal spacebar