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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: rknize on Tue, 19 June 2012, 11:07:39

Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Tue, 19 June 2012, 11:07:39: I just wanted to say that. :)

I've been laid-up in bed, so I had the time for some tedium: One white Leopold with clears (FC200RT/KB) and one black Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with blues (FKBN87MC/EB2) got their stems swapped.

I've had the Filco for a while now, but I just don't care for MX blues. It's been sitting in it's box for months. The light spring coupled with the high-pitch click makes them feel flimsy to me. This is probably because I am a Model M guy. I bought a bunch of clears from 7bit with the intention of ergo-clear modding this one.

I picked up the Leo recently when EK had them up. I used it for a week. The clears weren't bad, but they just have this dull feeling to them after typing on them for a while. The increased spring force doesn't bother me all that much.

So after a lot of desoldering, fiddling with stems and springs, and resoldering, I now have two boards that are better than the original sum of their parts. The blue stems give the clear springs some nice feedback and the click is a bit more assertive. I also put the Cherry black-on-white caps from ascaii on there, which helps with the sound. The Filco...well there is not much to say. I love ergo-clears. This is the first plate-mounted board that I've had with them and they are great. :)
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Tue, 19 June 2012, 11:09:47: Very nice. I have assimilated most of my boards to ergo-clears. They are the best mx switch, hands-down. That is my own personal opinion, of course.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Tue, 19 June 2012, 11:22:32: Some observations about quality: the Filco has a nice, thick, glass/epoxy, double-sided PCB with through-hole eyelets. The Leo is a thinner, single-sided PCB using lighter materials (looks like an old FR3 board to me). The single-sided PCB actually made it much easier to desolder than the Filco. The Leo's plate is attached to the PCB in 4 or 5 places, while the Flico's is fully floating (it's actually the PCB that floats, since the plate is what attaches to the case).

Both boards had solder and assembly issues, so I can see why people report issues with both. For example, both boards had solder flow issues and both boards had switches that were not fully seated against the PCB. Soldering is more critical for the Leo, since it only has the PCB surface to attach the legs to. The connector inside the Filco was badly mangled by whoever jammed it together. The pin for the shield drain was bent and mangled. Luckily, it's not completely necessary for the board to work. I like how the controller attaches to the PCB on headers.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: Roguemaster8 on Tue, 19 June 2012, 20:45:53: Quote from: MagicMeatball;617037
Very nice. I have assimilated most of my boards to ergo-clears. They are the best mx switch, hands-down. That is my own personal opinion, of course.

I agree, but I've only ever tried them on a PCB board, I want to know what they're like on a plate mounted one.

One day I want to mod a Filco to have some. Or rather, PAY someone to mod a Filco for me, soldering isn't one of my skills.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:06:08: Quote from: Roguemaster8;617409
I agree, but I've only ever tried them on a PCB board, I want to know what they're like on a plate mounted one.

One day I want to mod a Filco to have some. Or rather, PAY someone to mod a Filco for me, soldering isn't one of my skills.

I am using them on a plate mounted TG3 BL82, as my sig implies :P My sig also implies that I can mod your filco for you :P

It's really great on either, honestly. You just have to try it out.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: Roguemaster8 on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:14:09: Do you notice a significant difference between your Poker/Pure and your TG3?

I must be half asleep, I should have seen that lol. I actually didn't know the BL82 was plate mounted until now.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:18:31: My first experience with ergo-clears was on the G80. I actually bought it that way from Binaris. Not the best board for it, but it gave me an idea of what they would be like. Plate mount is much more solid without the "boinginess" of the PCB.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:26:17: Quote from: Roguemaster8;617449
Do you notice a significant difference between your Poker/Pure and your TG3?

I must be half asleep, I should have seen that lol. I actually didn't know the BL82 was plate mounted until now.

Quite honestly, I prefer plate mounted Ergo-clears. If I could pick up some plates for my Poker and my Pure, I would totally convert them. It's just a really great typing experience.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: Roguemaster8 on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:26:45: I insulated the bottom of my Poker case with foam to help with that flex you get when typing. I'm not sure how much good it does though when compared to a nice metal plate. Hopefully when I get an aluminum case for it will feel even more solid.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:35:06: Quote from: Roguemaster8;617409
I agree, but I've only ever tried them on a PCB board, I want to know what they're like on a plate mounted one.

One day I want to mod a Filco to have some. Or rather, PAY someone to mod a Filco for me, soldering isn't one of my skills.

I also do mods. Placebo guy was very pleased with his ergo-clear + blue filco.

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52139&d=1338687649)

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52537&d=1339209967)
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Tue, 19 June 2012, 21:44:46: Good times. I just used my trusty solder-sucker, but it would go a lot faster with a proper desoldering station. I really hate these RHoS solders they are using nowadays.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 19 June 2012, 22:01:40: Quote from: rknize;617468
Good times. I just used my trusty solder-sucker, but it would go a lot faster with a proper desoldering station. I really hate these RHoS solders they are using nowadays.

I KNOW! Filco's are a ***** to desolder because there ain't any lead in 'em. But I use fluxed desoldering braid instead.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Tue, 19 June 2012, 22:06:37: Quote from: The_Ed;617462
I also do mods. Placebo guy was very pleased with his ergo-clear + blue filco.

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52139&d=1338687649)

Show Image
(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52537&d=1339209967)

I see burn marks on the PCB. That's from leaving the iron too long on it. Just thought I would point that out, not doggin' you or anything.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: demik on Tue, 19 June 2012, 22:07:53: ghetto greens and greens are the best switch by far.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: Chris_F on Tue, 19 June 2012, 22:15:30: Being a fan of buckling springs I wish Cherry had a switch that was a MX Clear mixed with a MX Green (high tactile, high force, clicky).
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 19 June 2012, 22:54:52: Quote from: MagicMeatball;617482
I see burn marks on the PCB. That's from leaving the iron too long on it. Just thought I would point that out, not doggin' you or anything.

Burn marks? That's rosin flux...
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Tue, 19 June 2012, 23:47:20: Quote from: The_Ed;617531
Burn marks? That's rosin flux...

Tree sap and lead belong together.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 19 June 2012, 23:51:33: Quote from: rknize;617566
Tree sap and lead belong together.

Amen. I just don't see how he can accuse me of burning a PCB when it's clearly rosin flux. I guess since the geekhack server compresses the images some of the detail is lost. Flux is a must for desoldering.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rodya on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:09:39: Thanks for the post OP. I've been having the exact same thoughts and your results have convinced me.

Chris_F, have you tried the Greens? They're supposed to be 80cN (vs 65cN Clears). Or maybe you'd like MX White (clicky and tactile 80cN). But I haven't used either switch (yet) so a board of MX White might be horrible. 7bit has a group buy (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?32108-Cherry-MX-%28taking-pre-orders!%29).
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:24:49: Quote from: The_Ed;617571
Amen. I just don't see how he can accuse me of burning a PCB when it's clearly rosin flux. I guess since the geekhack server compresses the images some of the detail is lost. Flux is a must for desoldering.

This PCB has been soldered and desoldered roughly 6 times by me. What you see around it is flux. None of the boards I have ever worked on look like the one in your photo. Even the slight amount of flux on the board, I use 99% Isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush to remove the residue.

http://imageshack.us/f/812/finaldolch.jpg/

I would definitely like to see a more up-close version of your photo.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:35:38: I didn't clean the flux, it does no harm. That pic is not on this computer, it's on my dad's. I use RA (fully activated) rosin flux which produces a sticky yellowish/blackish residue.

I don't see any flux on your board. But it looks like you've added a little too much solder as they are quite round and have tails from when you pulled away.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:37:50: Quote from: The_Ed;617597
I didn't clean the flux, it does no harm. That pic is not on this computer, it's on my dad's. I use RA (fully activated) rosin flux which produces a sticky yellowish/blackish residue.

I don't see any flux on your board. But it looks like you've added a little too much solder as they are quite round and have tails from when you pulled away.

The 'tails' aren't solder, it's the actual wiring. Which was left that way when I was trying out different configurations. But I would be happy to show you many more finished versions.

Either way, I like a clean board.
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: demik on Wed, 20 June 2012, 00:46:55: solder off!!!

my 356 mini needs it's switches changed and my mx mini needs to be built >.<
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: The_Ed on Wed, 20 June 2012, 01:09:09: A competition? Great, let me just... My computer is still down because the replacement COV-RP450 hasn't come yet...

To circumvent the geekhack image compression I'll upload the pictures elsewhere. Once I can access them...

Edit: This is what I have to use right now while I wait... 4 computers taped together...

(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=52466&d=1339143498)
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: MMB on Wed, 20 June 2012, 01:29:36: [video=youtube;aU3Rk-Z9boM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU3Rk-Z9boM[/video]

(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8071/dsc0206p.jpg)

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6629/dsc0207ev.jpg)

(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6273/dsc0211fw.jpg)
Title: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Wed, 20 June 2012, 09:31:01: I just leave the flux. It gives it character. I usually only clean it if the area is tight and I'm concerned about shorts or otherwise want to do a close inspection (SMD, for example). These boards have tones of space. For really tiny SMD stuff, like phones, cleaning can lead to trouble. Maybe that's how I got out of the habit.
Title: Re: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: Lammie on Sun, 29 June 2014, 08:37:40: So, you essentially swapped the clear springs into the blue's and vice versa. The blue springs into the clears? Is this correct?
Title: Re: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: rknize on Tue, 01 July 2014, 10:25:15: Yep. At the time (2 years ago now) I didn't have the plethora of boards that I have now.
Title: Re: Ergo-clear + ghetto-green >> MX clear + MX blue
Post by: Lammie on Tue, 01 July 2014, 10:48:41: Great thanks. See you've got a lot of choice from kb's :) What is your daily driver now or #1 fav?