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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: writer525 on Thu, 21 June 2012, 23:10:03
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Hi,
I'm a writer searching for a mechanical keyboard large enough to suite my needs -- that is, a mechanical keyboard that doesn't cramp my hands and typing experience like the Datadesk Mac keyboard I ordered off Ebay a few months ago. Simply put, the entire layout of the keys feels scrunched together; I feel cramped, narrowed into an uncomfortable typing experience. I fantasize about the perfect, large mechanical keyboard, and would greatly, thankfully appreciate any help finding one. I've researched some, and have read articles about the IBM Model M, the Das Keyboard, etc -- and, while they seem bigger, I can't be sure without firsthand experience, or the firsthand experience of someone else...
Any help is appreciated, as I long for the interactive, participatory experience of clacking out documents like I did in my youthful mechanical-keyboard days. I want something big -- or at least bigger and more breathable than the Datadesk I own, if such a thing exists.
Thanks,
- writer525
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I can vouch that the Model M is enormous. Another large, friendly keyboard for writing folk is the Kinesis Advantage.
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A Model M (or Unicomp if you want a brand new Model M) is probably the closest experience you can get to typing on an old-school IBM Selectric typewriter, in feel and sound. As far as the actual footprint of the keyboard, I just compared my Unicomp Spacesaver (aka "Ultra Classic" on their current web site) and it is almost identical to that of my Das Keyboard (current model), with the exception that the Das is narrower (depth-wise) except for the widest part where the USB hub is.
The spacing on the keys is pretty standard across all popular mechanical keyboards in my experience. The width of the individual keytops vary a tiny bit, but overall, I don't think there's enough difference from standard keyboard to standard keyboard to make one really feel more "cramped" than another. (Talking about standard *mechanical* keyboards here -- obviously, big box office supply store rubber domes vary quite a bit from model to model.)
As Quarzac mentioned, if you have the wallet for it and the luxury to spend a little time getting used to it, the Kinesis Advantage would be a fantastic keyboard for long writing sessions. I used to have one when I did more writing myself, but now that I'm an IT guy and have to frequently go back and forth between various standard layout keyboards, I would find it a bit awkward to throw the Kinesis into the mix. Some of the special characters used in programming syntax are kind of oddly placed on the Kinesis as well, IMHO, but the general alpha layout has everything where you would expect it to be on any split keyboard. One other thing of note about the Kinesis is that it is rather tall compared to a standard keyboard because of the sculpted "wells", so you use a sliding keyboard tray / drawer, you might have issues closing it. It's definitely the most comfortable / least cramped keyboard I've ever tried, though.
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Thanks Quarzac and bionicroach - very helpful.
It's seeming like I'm dealing with one of two possible situations: either my Datadesk exemplifies most mechanical keyboards, and following this I must simply find the basic key spacing layout of mechanical keyboards uncomfortable; or, second option, the Datadesk is actually cramped/smaller -- it does look rather small to me... -- and I'd be better off with, say, a Unicomp Model M.
Regarding the Kinesis Advantage, I appreciate -- really, really do -- your advice, but in my experience I've never been able to quite get used to ergonomic keyboards, for whatever reason - but, still, thanks.
Again, thanks for the advice, and any more mechanical keyboard wisdom is appreciated, especially regarding the two "situations" I feel my keyboard quest now boils down to.
- writer525
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Just to clarify - is this the Datadesk keyboard you currently have?
http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_base.html (http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_base.html)
If so, their specs list it as 18" wide, so that's pretty much in the ballpark of the Das or Unicomp SpaceSaver M (I'm also assuming you're using a Mac).
(On the other hand, if you're referring to the Datadesk "SmartBoard", then it definitely does have non-standard key spacing and a Das/Filco/Leopold/Ducky/WASD/etc would certainly feel quite different to type on...)
One other thing of note: the original Model M and the Unicomp "classic" models have ginormous "bezels" around their cases which take up more desk space, but the actual key area is the same as the "space saver" models. I'm guessing it boils down to keeping the key spacing as standard as possible for touch typists' muscle memory. Your fingers get used to "reaching" a certain amount between keys, so if you changed that spacing too much it would probably slow you down and require you to retrain your fingers which is very off-putting for most people.
I'm not a huge fan of split keyboards myself due to the (usually) somewhat awkward placement of the special character / home-end-delete cluster / arrow keys / lack of numpad etc, but if you're broad-shouldered or have large hands, split boards really do seem to be the only real solution to un-cramp your hand placement. One plus that I do notice when I type on split boards for a while is that my typing form / accuracy definitely improves somewhat since I'm forced to use the "correct" fingers to hit their respective keys. For hunt-n-peck tasks like editing code syntax or just general random computer tasks though, I feel like ergo boards slow me down. If I could commit to just using one ergo board for several months, I'm sure I could get used to it, but like most Geekhack members, I tend to swap out my keyboards way more often than that! :)
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Bionicroach,
The datadisk I have is this one: http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_base.html -- the "Lil Bigboard." Maybe it's that this compact keyboard, being without bezels, is too...immediate for me? Maybe I would prefer, and respond better to, a keyboard with bezels -- with added material that makes me less readily able to scrunch my fingers directly into/onto the keypad. I don't know. Still, though: is this lil Big board's typing area smaller than a Unicomp ultra classic, or the like?
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That board was inspired by the Apple M0116 right down to the font... in a smaller package and adding F keys.
(http://195.224.149.148/SB/keyboard_lilBigBoard.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Apple_(Standard)_Keyboard_M0116.jpg)
The DAS keyboard Professional that clicks would be great for your use - not the silent version.
Filcos are great but harder to find in the US since elitekeyboards.com stopped carrying them. Elite does have a slightly lower end line from Leopold that are pretty good I hear but not quite up to the quality of the DAS or Filcos. This is all debatable of course. If you want to go Vintage an IBM Model M is a benchmark, cheap, and has it's own unique feel with satisfying buckling springs under each key cap.
There are a lot of keyboards out with fun features and various layouts but if you're wanting to do a lot of real input I'd skip the trendy gimmicks go straight to something like a DAS and never look back.
If you want the same switches that are in the current board you have, Matias is about to release a new keyboard that has them (http://matias.ca/tactilepro3/). I have a NIB Northgate Omnimac if you're into the ALPS Apple vintage look and feel but want a better keyboard.
Good luck, I love it when people are looking for a keyboard to actually use to write.
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didjamatic,
Wow -- that one on the top (the multicolored one) is literally the keyboard I have; that is, the one I find too small or "cramped." Crazy. I love the clicky aspect -- the feel, etc -- I'm just not keen on my fingers feeling forced uncomfortably together.
So, if they feel better, it's down to either the DAS Professional that clicks, or the Unicomp Spacesaver M. Do you prefer the DAS over the Unicomp, didjamatic?
And, yeah hahah, writing is very primarily what I plan on doing with whichever keyboard I end up with. I write five to seven hours a day, give or take, and really do...weirdly enough...fantasize about clacking down on a seriously awesome mechanical keyboard.
Thanks,
- writer525
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writer525.............nice to find a fellow typist/writer:)
you are wise to see what some of the folks here suggest as they know the latest and greatest on not just mechanical, but mechanical keyboards in general. give it a couple days to see what others suggest-- you should even be able to find a keyboard that your looking for that someone is willing to sell here on gh. they have saved me some serious shekels.
I have a couple newer mech boards, but to be honest for some reason I keep falling back to the older IBM Model M, ALPS in all there variations and tactile-click cherries-- but that's just me because that is what I started on. i can't keep up with all the new boards, lingo, switches, etc. that continuously are coming out which these guys do and I enjoy reading because they are so knowledgeable and mostly practical.
you would be surprised at the vintage, old school boards you can find relatively cheap. they do plant a big foot print........., however are head and shoulders above some on the squishy junk that is being sold out there today.
the DAS Pro (blue switch) that didjamatic suggested would be a great choice and of course as quarzac and others suggested you can never go wrong with a Model M:) I've had mine forever and it still types as new far as I am concerned- a real beast that one is I tell you.
hope you find a suitable board to spend the waning hours of the night putting your thoughts down.
i'll bump and let some who newer boards chime in.....
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Get them both and sell the one you don't like. You won't know until you try them.
They're both very fast.
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A IBM Model M or a Cherry G80-3000 will fit the bill very nicely.
I would say Cherry keyboard are greatly underrated. They are extremely comfortable to type on due to their low start off height form the base of the keyboard.
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Bionicroach,
The datadisk I have is this one: http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_base.html -- the "Lil Bigboard." Maybe it's that this compact keyboard, being without bezels, is too...immediate for me? Maybe I would prefer, and respond better to, a keyboard with bezels -- with added material that makes me less readily able to scrunch my fingers directly into/onto the keypad. I don't know. Still, though: is this lil Big board's typing area smaller than a Unicomp ultra classic, or the like?
It looks to be standard size: 15 inches / 20 keys wide, so 3/4 inch per key. There aren't more spaced out keyboards, but even small differences in the shape of the keycaps can make quite a difference to perception. The IBM (or Unicomp, I guess) feels slightly less cramped to me - perhaps because the keycaps are taller, so there's a bit more space between keys when you press them. It's hard to describe: the top and bottom of the keycaps are almost identical to those you have, but since the bottom is lower the slope at the sides of each key is steeper. Here's a crude and exaggerated diagram...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53836[/ATTACH]
Obviously, I can't say if that would suit you much better, or not!