geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Lethal Squirrel on Thu, 02 August 2012, 13:40:21
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If anybody wants to get rid of their Red Alert set in the future, please contact me first! :D
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red alert or fake alert? 8)
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Not sure what you mean. Are there sets that look like the red alert set or something?
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There's Red Alert... and then there's Red Alert subset/remix by Ragnorock.
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There's Red Alert... and then there's Red Alert subset/remix by Ragnorock.
What's really the difference? Both made by SP, right?
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The original Red Alert was massive.. I think the base set was 120+ keys...
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So it was made for a full 104 layout, then? Is the new one meant for an 87 layout?
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Real red alert covered just about every mx keyboard under the sun.
Plus custom legends and so on.
So other than red on white, they are different.
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Deskthority (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/rebel-red-alert-ended-prepare-for-left-over-sets-april-1-t860.html), no pics in the OP tho... 170 keys in the base set.
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The original RA also had some custom legends irrc. I think the colors are the same though so not much difference. Although I would still love an original set but, that will probably never happen.
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Not sure what you mean. Are there sets that look like the red alert set or something?
I think everyone covered it, red alert is made by OTD/DT joint project with a base kit of 170 keys and a experimental set of 18 keys, over 25 custom legends in total iirc
Fake alert is the set Ragnarok is making at the moment with basic standard Wyse font without any custom legends throughout the entire set, the other similarity is the colour used besides that they are different sets altogether. This set comes with a base 87 keyset and multiple add ons but nothing compared to the gigantic 170 base kit of the original.
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^ The difference being that with my set you're free to choose what keys you did or didn't need. Its compatible with just as many boards if you buy the appropriate set, and if you bought a base set, a mod set, a tsangan set, and an ISO set, you'll end up with 159 keys compared to the 170 that came in the base of original red alert... for less I'm pretty sure. None of the missing keys from mine reduce compatibility in any way, the others were custom legend 1x keys from OTD etc.
The only real difference is that my set does not have the custom legends, which Uranium didn't want me using.
If you want one of mine Lethal Squirrel I have leftovers. Send me a PM.
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^ The difference being that with my set you're free to choose what keys you did or didn't need. Its compatible with just as many boards if you buy the appropriate set, and if you bought a base set, a mod set, a tsangan set, and an ISO set, you'll end up with 159 keys compared to the 170 that came in the base of original red alert... for less I'm pretty sure. None of the missing keys from mine reduce compatibility in any way, the others were custom legend 1x keys from OTD etc.
The only real difference is that my set does not have the custom legends, which Uranium didn't want me using.
Fake Alert
$52 Base Kit
$27 Modifier Kit
$17 Tsagan Kit
$22 104 Kit
$20 ISO Kit
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$138 pre shipping, 158 keys total all stock legends
Red Alert
$63 Base Kit
$18 Experimental Kit
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$81 pre shipping, 188 keys total with custom legends
So...
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So, not to sound like a noob, but is there anywhere I can buy either of the sets other than the group buy. I honestly don't know if the current group buy is for the "fake" set or not.
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Current buy is for fake alert.
You're going to pay a premium.
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^ The difference being that with my set you're free to choose what keys you did or didn't need. Its compatible with just as many boards if you buy the appropriate set, and if you bought a base set, a mod set, a tsangan set, and an ISO set, you'll end up with 159 keys compared to the 170 that came in the base of original red alert... for less I'm pretty sure. None of the missing keys from mine reduce compatibility in any way, the others were custom legend 1x keys from OTD etc.
The only real difference is that my set does not have the custom legends, which Uranium didn't want me using.
Fake Alert
$52 Base Kit
$27 Modifier Kit
$17 Tsagan Kit
$22 104 Kit
$20 ISO Kit
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$138 pre shipping, 158 keys total all stock legends
Red Alert
$63 Base Kit
$18 Experimental Kit
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$81 pre shipping, 188 keys total with custom legends
So...
That's great to know... except for the part where you can't obtain the original set.....
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That's great to know... except for the part where you can't obtain the original set.....
I was just asking what the OP was looking for...
Many people have found the original set before I don't see why not now. I am now merely just correctly all the wrong facts that was given out of this thread.
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Lol SP's prices were so cheap! That's cool we're calling it Fake Alert now though, didn't get the memo. -.-
Also original sets go for like $200. :o
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Lol SP's prices were so cheap! That's cool we're calling it Fake Alert now though, didn't get the memo. -.-
Also original sets go for like $200. :o
Your secondary market pricing for fake alert is definitely more then $138 pre shipping also, unless I that got changed.
Oh wait, that wouldn't be fair to all the other people you charged $80 (+$28 more then the original pricing) for the base set for already :)
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How about instead of trolling Rag's GB, you help the OP? Get over the s**t.....
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How about instead of trolling Rag's GB, you help the OP? Get over the s**t.....
Correcting info is trolling? Then I have 0 idea what you are doing here, not providing any info only posting smart ass comments.
I still don't know which set the OP is looking for, Rag already offered his set to him if he wants it.
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How about instead of trolling Rag's GB, you help the OP? Get over the s**t.....
Correcting info is trolling? Then I have 0 idea what you are doing here, not providing any info only posting smart ass comments.
I still don't know which set the OP is looking for, Rag already offered his set to him if he wants it.
How are my comments smart-assed because they don't agree with your trolling? Rag posted the prices for his current GB. OP has the option of HOPING to find the original set at a highly inflated price, or the option of going with what's being offered in the current GB. You don't need to bring your issues with Rag from his GB thread into here. You're a moderator? Really?...
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I'm looking for either set really. Price isn't really an issue lol
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Okay, maybe I take that back. That's pretty damn expensive!
EDIT: Sorry for the double post
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How are my comments smart-assed because they don't agree with your trolling? Rag posted the prices for his current GB. OP has the option of HOPING to find the original set at a highly inflated price, or the option of going with what's being offered in the current GB. You don't need to bring your issues with Rag from his GB thread into here. You're a moderator? Really?...
I never brought in ANY issue of rag's GB into this, notice how I have stayed away from his GB thread altogether.
My first post on here was asking which set OP was looking for.
My second post was discussing the differences of the 2 sets since OP was not aware.
My third post was correcting rag's statement on his being cheaper.
My forth post was bring light to the matter that rag's set isn't cheaper at all with his inflated prices.
My fifth post was response to your post saying that I was trolling in my previous 4 posts.
Your comments are smart-assed because you are just accusing me of trolling when all I am doing is providing clear cut info, while not helping with any other info in this thread.
If OP is looking for the original RA set I would direct him to certain people that MIGHT have it and go from there, if he is interested in the one Rag is offering, well that's already been done by Rag himself.
I don't see what I did wrong here?
I'm looking for either set really. Price isn't really an issue lol
If either set doesn't matter and all you need is base 87 set then Rag is the way to go, easy access :)
If you are looking for the original you might have to hunt a bit harder before finding it :)
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Alrighty. Thanks for the information guys! :D
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your insistent that rag's "inflated prices" are so much more than Red Alert original price was
However, you know and I know, noone's selling you a red alert original for under $100.
So your point of how it was originally that price last year is quite useless, don't you think?
So isn't it trolling to say rag's prices are so much, when the secondary market for RA is now $200+ as of the last set that was sold?
Shouldn't you use the current secondary price of the RA to compare to Rag's "inflated" price? also i find it funny too that apparently the community is suppose to be about spreading keycaps to everyone who wants it, so everyone can experience it. But like rag said, Uranium didn't want the custom legends to be used, so to preserve the "Rarity" of his original RA i guess. Which then causes inflated secondary pricing because of said "rarity"
Anyway, sidetracked:
OP, if you want the red on white, buy a set from Rag.
You'll get it in your choice of customization and prices.
If you're gonna hold out for the original set, check out Deskthority, they'll prob have someone willing to sell you one
expect to pay around $200 for it.
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I completely agree that it will be hard to find the original set for under $100 I am with you there. For $200 you can find it I will also agree with.
With the secondary prices of Rag with all the addons it will be similar prices, no? I was just stating the original price ONLY because Rag says his set was cheaper that's all.
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I used the term 'trolling' primarily because of the sarcastic tone when referring to Rag's GB. It's pretty obviously there. While you did provide information relative to the topic, you laced it with your disdain for Rag's GB. It can't be any more obvious. I would have simply said the facts, minus the undertone.
But like I said, if you can find the original set at an affordable price, good luck. Otherwise, your only option is the new group buy.
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I used the term 'trolling' primarily because of the sarcastic tone when referring to Rag's GB. It's pretty obviously there. While you did provide information relative to the topic, you laced it with your disdain for Rag's GB. It can't be any more obvious. I would have simply said the facts, minus the undertone.
But like I said, if you can find the original set at an affordable price, good luck. Otherwise, your only option is the new group buy.
I apologize for the sarcastic tone you might have gotten from my post then, that was completely unintended, like I said I was just hoping to provide clear facts.
I have no problem with rag's GB hence why I have not said a single thing in his actual GB thread so far and I even suggested to OP that if he doesn't care which set he gets then to go with rag :)
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Don't hunt me down!
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Sounds like you got something I want...
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Yeah Tsangan and I have no beef with each other, we're pretty close when it comes to working together to get people the keys people want most at a price they can afford. Everyone has just had their jimmies rustled the last 24 hours, myself included, for that I apologize. I can detect the sarcasm in his posts too, but I can take a bit of crap from a friend. :P Anyways, $115 for a base set with red or grey mods isn't too bad, and it was even cheaper when I put them on sale at the end of last month.
Lethal, if you want a set let me know, I didn't buy extras of the Tsangan kits, ISO kits etc, so it won't have the compatibility (or the high price) that the original set has, but if you don't need them and don't mind not having the custom legends from the first group buy, I can get you what you want.
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zyzz frowns upon all this bickering.
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Sounds like you got something I want...
Sounds like....I may! http://dangwang.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/white-filco-tkl-with-dolchrgb-and-red-alert-doubleshots/
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That would be awesome Rag! I sent you a PM earlier before I read that. I just sent another. ;)
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Not sure what you mean. Are there sets that look like the red alert set or something?
I think everyone covered it, red alert is made by OTD/DT joint project with a base kit of 170 keys and a experimental set of 18 keys, over 25 custom legends in total iirc
Fake alert is the set Ragnarok is making at the moment with basic standard Wyse font without any custom legends throughout the entire set, the other similarity is the colour used besides that they are different sets altogether. This set comes with a base 87 keyset and multiple add ons but nothing compared to the gigantic 170 base kit of the original.
Sorry, tsangan, I have to call you out on this one. You say you're not trolling, but my bull**** detector says otherwise. "Fake Alert." Really? How is that not trolling.
OP, GLWWTB. I hope you found what you are looking for.
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That's what other people calls it, i just follow suit.
Calling it Red Alert causes problems such as this one :)
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A lot of tension around here lately...
(http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy237/agsinerocks/gonna-be-good.gif)
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I'd prefer it if we didn't perpetuate that. This is the first I've heard that being used and everyone else just calls it RA or RA round 2.
Be all postmodern and call it Red Alert 2.0!
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I would pay $200 for an original set :)
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DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN. ;______________________;
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I think I would too longweight
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It's a nice set, but it's not worth $200 =)
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that is how these stupid ass prices start.
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Also very interested in a set sent you a pm earlier about it rag
not trying to snipe or thread jack... need the posts
also GL with your buy lethal :)
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Rag ended up having an extra set for me. I grabbed it!
Goodluck to you as well, Xero!
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It's a nice set, but it's not worth $200 =)
Exactly. These prices are getting stupid. $200 for keysets, $150 for CCs. Dumb.
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Yeah Tsangan and I have no beef with each other, we're pretty close when it comes to working together to get people the keys people want most at a price they can afford. Everyone has just had their jimmies rustled the last 24 hours, myself included, for that I apologize. I can detect the sarcasm in his posts too, but I can take a bit of crap from a friend. :P Anyways, $115 for a base set with red or grey mods isn't too bad, and it was even cheaper when I put them on sale at the end of last month.
lol, who rustled your jimmy? ;)
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(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/249/850/83f.jpg)
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Rag ended up having an extra set for me. I grabbed it!
Goodluck to you as well, Xero!
Rag to the Rescue....
I will try to post a comparison between the two to see if you can really tell the difference... I was thinking of selling my rag red alert set since my red alert set finally showed up.
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It's a nice set, but it's not worth $200 =)
Exactly. These prices are getting stupid. $200 for keysets, $150 for CCs. Dumb.
CC's are a problem because there is a lot of perceived value by poachers, they are sold by a retailer (elite keyboards) so there is easy access, and inherently there is a limited supply (a limited number is made which is pre planned).
This is completely different than in a group buy, where (in theory) everyone who wants and can afford a set is able to get one. That is, there is no ceiling to the production run. But the reality is (and especially of those GB's which don't originate in GH apparently), once a run has been made, it can never be done again. If the keyboard community wasn't selfish, then all custom legends would have their copyrights donated to the public and anyone could initiate a run of any set at any time as long as enough interest existed.
Take the most recent RGB gb for instance. Apparently it's wrong to do a cherry replica of RGB sets, even though there have been Moogle Kits, and that THIS community is funding the Replica project. But, you know, to protect the "exclusivity" of the GB which is for a DIFFERENT community, they'll portion out only a limited number of sets as a favor to us. >:(
This is completely against the idea of a Group Buy IMO, and it infuriates me. Sorry for the rant and for derailing in advance, but the last couple of days have really pissed me off regarding how it's a one way street regarding our "relationship" with other communities.
Cheers,
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Rag ended up having an extra set for me. I grabbed it!
Goodluck to you as well, Xero!
Rag to the Rescue....
I will try to post a comparison between the two to see if you can really tell the difference... I was thinking of selling my rag red alert set since my red alert set finally showed up.
SELL ME YOUR RED ALERT AND BUY MORE GUNS!
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It's a nice set, but it's not worth $200 =)
Exactly. These prices are getting stupid. $200 for keysets, $150 for CCs. Dumb.
CC's are a problem because there is a lot of perceived value by poachers, they are sold by a retailer (elite keyboards) so there is easy access, and inherently there is a limited supply (a limited number is made which is pre planned).
This is completely different than in a group buy, where (in theory) everyone who wants and can afford a set is able to get one. That is, there is no ceiling to the production run. But the reality is (and especially of those GB's which don't originate in GH apparently), once a run has been made, it can never be done again. If the keyboard community wasn't selfish, then all custom legends would have their copyrights donated to the public and anyone could initiate a run of any set at any time as long as enough interest existed.
Take the most recent RGB gb for instance. Apparently it's wrong to do a cherry replica of RGB sets, even though there have been Moogle Kits, and that THIS community is funding the Replica project. But, you know, to protect the "exclusivity" of the GB which is for a DIFFERENT community, they'll portion out only a limited number of sets as a favor to us. >:(
This is completely against the idea of a Group Buy IMO, and it infuriates me. Sorry for the rant and for derailing in advance, but the last couple of days have really pissed me off regarding how it's a one way street regarding our "relationship" with other communities.
Cheers,
I agree with this, though I'll offer some insight into why my Red Alert set didn't include the custom legends. Simply put, Uranium paid for them out of pocket. He didn't charge extra to those that were in the group buy to cover them, and while it might have evened out in the end because he surely made some money out of it, it was an investment that he made on his own and thus felt quite a lot of ownership over them. While its not the case that he was contacted and refused, I was never able to get in contact with him directly (I don't speak Korean) and the guy who I asked about it explained to me what I'm saying now and told me he'd contact Uranium about it... and never got back to me. Thus, while I could have paid for the new legends myself as well, and considered doing it, I chose not to because there was no definitive answer from Uranium on whether he would be okay with either allowing me to use them for free, a fee, or if I paid for it myself. Obviously if I paid for them myself he would have no real right to say no I couldn't do it, but I/GH didn't want to risk any damage to the relationship with OTD/KBDmania.
In a way, that does preserve the value of the original sets, while providing those that missed out an opportunity to get 95% of the same thing. I figured that was the most reasonable compromise.
So the short answer is: If you pay for the legends yourself, you're entitled to do whatever the hell you want, but often times when people do pay for the legends themselves, due to the significant investment, they usually don't want others to take those and profit off of their work/money.
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Would you really kill for a red alert set?
Seriously, that is ****ed up man.
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I know I would :D It all comes to people's preference.
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I'll make a pokemon faint.. in a game. :3
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...but I/GH didn't want to risk any damage to the relationship with OTD/KBDmania.
What relationship? OH! You mean the one-way relationship where they get to participate in every single group buy that goes on here, and we get to participate in ever..., er, wait, I mean, NONE of theirs? You know what they call that in biology? A parasite.
I'm so sick of this BS. We should make what we want, period.
And, Rag, you could have just used 7bit's legends. They are the same as the ones Uranium paid out-of-pocket for, and you should have used them with the RA 2.0 set. But I appreciate your efforts in getting the set made, I really do.
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Now that jdcarpe mentioned it, why didn't we use 7bit's legends? AFAIK he was cool with that...
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WAIT WAIT WAIT, WTF. WHO CHANGED MY NAME.
edit: I'm getting trolled.
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I agree that the relationship with the the Korean forums isn't equitable. I would like to see US and EU proxies buying from their group buys like Taeyoung and others do here.
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...but I/GH didn't want to risk any damage to the relationship with OTD/KBDmania.
What relationship? OH! You mean the one-way relationship where they get to participate in every single group buy that goes on here, and we get to participate in ever..., er, wait, I mean, NONE of theirs? You know what they call that in biology? A parasite.
I'm so sick of this BS. We should make what we want, period.
And, Rag, you could have just used 7bit's legends. They are the same as the ones Uranium paid out-of-pocket for, and you should have used them with the RA 2.0 set. But I appreciate your efforts in getting the set made, I really do.
well them joining makes stuff cheap for us since we dont have the member base they do.
but yeah, we should get in on some of their stuff once in awhile.
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well them joining makes stuff cheap for us since we dont have the member base they do.
but yeah, we should get in on some of their stuff once in awhile.
I would rather pay more, just on principle.
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well, you go and do that then.
i'll take cheaper prices.
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So who's willingly learning Korean? :D
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Now that jdcarpe mentioned it, why didn't we use 7bit's legends? AFAIK he was cool with that...
Because unless I did the color scheme he did, they would have been almost exactly the same, thus not helping it avoid looking like I copied them/used his legends without authorization.
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They're both the same legends for the mods though, aren't they? And what's most unique to the original RA set is the custom number row. Since when did legends only apply to certain colours? .__. I"m confused.
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They're both the same legends for the mods though, aren't they? And what's most unique to the original RA set is the custom number row. Since when did legends only apply to certain colours? .__. I"m confused.
Yes, they are the same legends. Rag didn't want to use them without Uranium's permission, but he was never able to get in contact with him to get that approval. Rag also took s**t at the beginning for even doing a Round 2 set, until he got permission from Sixty to go ahead. 7bit gave approval to use his legends, but Rag just went with the standard modifier legends, so as not to stir up any more trouble. After the way he got vilified recently, maybe Rag will just make them how he wants next time, since he still gets s**t from people, no matter what. The contrasting number row used SP's Isotherm font, which we could have used also, but it would have cost more.
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Lol that's one way to do it. Maybe I will next time. XD
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Oh I seeeee.
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No problem, Killerbear. Glad I could catch you up. :P
No, you're not being trolled at the moment.
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WOW YOU SAW FML. LOL. T__T..
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I was thinking about a set in Isotherm.
But it says $25 legend fee. Is that per key or for the whole order? - http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/LineFont.pdf (http://keycapsdirect.com/pdfs/LineFont.pdf)
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per
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So who's willingly learning Korean? :D
Don't need to. I work with a Korean friend :)
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Is she hot?
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The proper question would be: Does she/he have an account on every Korean board?
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the proper question would be: why are people still talking on this thread?! lol xD
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Well, you got your RA set.
You don't need it anymore. Might as well threadcrap :D
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Go right ahead! Doesn't bother me :D
This thread will probably always be at the top at the rate people are posting!
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...but I/GH didn't want to risk any damage to the relationship with OTD/KBDmania.
What relationship? OH! You mean the one-way relationship where they get to participate in every single group buy that goes on here, and we get to participate in ever..., er, wait, I mean, NONE of theirs? You know what they call that in biology? A parasite.
I'm so sick of this BS. We should make what we want, period.
And, Rag, you could have just used 7bit's legends. They are the same as the ones Uranium paid out-of-pocket for, and you should have used them with the RA 2.0 set. But I appreciate your efforts in getting the set made, I really do.
You're free to join OTD/KBDmania's GB if you go to their website.
If they see something they like that we make they don't copy it, sure there was an incident that this happened and the person apologized for it, flat out copying against the original authors permission is kind of low ;<
They come to OUR forum to join ours, you expect to be spoon fed?
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I cant get past the OTD phone number requirement '-_-
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I cant get past the OTD phone number requirement '-_-
I think I just put my phone number
I have an account, so does reaper, boost and many other members
All I hear is people crying that they can't get into their GBs but they can get into ours so we should copy, you want someone like Taeyoung on our end and we kinda are working on it but these things take time, now you get people such as jdcarpe to tell us to flat out copy stuff to hurt the relationship is a terrible idea.
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Hm.. Boost told me the same thing, but I've tried on numerous accounts with no luck =/
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Hm.. Boost told me the same thing, but I've tried on numerous accounts with no luck =/
See! I knew i wasn't lying when I told other members lol
Really not sure now, I swore when I signed up it was super simple
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Ah nvm, I got it, I had to input a korean name..
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I didnt have to do that >_>
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All I hear is people crying that they can't get into their GBs but they can get into ours so we should copy, you want someone like Taeyoung on our end and we kinda are working on it but these things take time, now you get people such as jdcarpe to tell us to flat out copy stuff to hurt the relationship is a terrible idea.
Again, what relationship? And please show me where I "[told you] to flat out copy stuff." I said we should make what we want.
I know that the Cherry legends are planned to be used for the first time in a Dolch replica group buy. I hope someone contacted Kontron AG to get their permission before we go and copy their stuff.
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Again, what relationship? And please show me where I "[told you] to flat out copy stuff." I said we should make what we want.
I know that the Cherry legends are planned to be used for the first time in a Dolch replica group buy. I hope someone contacted Kontron AG to get their permission before we go and copy their stuff.
And, Rag, you could have just used 7bit's legends. They are the same as the ones Uranium paid out-of-pocket for, and you should have used them with the RA 2.0 set. But I appreciate your efforts in getting the set made, I really do.
Right there, you can't really complain that this GB wasn't offered to us either because it was.
EDIT: Missed your first question, Sherry is working hard to do joint GB with KBDMania, sadly it is harder since we don't speak Korea while Taeyoung and others speak English and come to this forum, that's the difference. It's not like they do not welcome us over there
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At that time, the copying point was moot, since Rag had already obtained permission from Sixty to recreate the set. Sixty didn't have the rights to Uranium's modifier legends, since Uranium had paid for those himself. But 7bit offered Rag to use his legends, which AFAIK are basically the same.
During the IC, you, tsangan, were against the whole idea from the outset. So it's no surprise that you are still against it. I was all for it, from the beginning, and I supported the GB by purchasing sets from Rag. It's okay, we can agree to disagree. That's what forums like this are for.
If Sherryton (or anyone else) can coordinate GBs on the Korean sites, such as what Taeyoung does for them here, that would be great. I would love to be able to purchase GB items directly from those forums. I wasn't yet a "keyboard enthusiast" when the original RA set was offered, so I can't speak to that. But so far, I haven't noticed that happening. When we are offered to paticipate in their GBs, it seems to be on a limited basis only. I just want equity between the communities, not enmity. Right now, it seems, that the Korean keyboard community is in a position of strength, while we are left to "lick up their table scraps," to put it one way. I want our community to be respected by them, as theirs is by us. If "copying" their custom keysets is a sign of bad faith, then let's not do that. But we should be able to produce a Cherry replica dyesub RGB+Y set without someone crying foul. It's not like that is exactly an original idea. If duplication of GBs exist between forums, members of both should be allowed to participate, without limit to how many sets one can purchase, just as it would be on one's own forum. But this should work the same for both sides, not just one.
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Yeah I'm not sure I understand the whole "Limit how many you can buy if you're not in Korea" thing unless its a question of shipping/insurance. On the other side, more than half of my orders for RA were international, so its not like they don't take advantage of buying largely overseas. That seems a bit hypocritical and I can understand why I'd would be upset with that. But hey, I'm not a part of that community so I have no idea how it runs and it certainly isn't my place to judge their way of doing things.
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I experienced Korean GB always are limited to non-Koreans. The RA, the KMAC, the KMAC mini, the recent Cherry Dyesub Mods (where I got angry about the Korean interference. The Subs are now cheaper, but like I said, limited), etc. pp.
I don't know what their opinion about foreigners is but I never(!) heard of unlimited supply in a Korean GB for foreigners.
If someone is mainly involved at GH and speaks Korean, why not set up a update thread for Korean GBs like the current GH one? Or add the Korean GBs to that list.
They make some awesome things which are going for horrid prices on "our" market which is just dumb.
(I don't know where to go from here, so I just end, lol)
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RA wasn't limited to koreans. the GB was on DT also. couple GHers and DTers got a set.
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Limited as in "you only get xx sets" not as in restricted.
There was even a raffle at DT for the last sets...
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But you have to understand this.
They come to OUR forum, use OUR language and follow OUR rules for OUR group buys
We are COMPLETELY allowed to do the same thing, when we don't we cry that they don't invite us?
I don't see how anyone can complain that this is a one way relationship, they took their time to come to GH/DT to register, speak English and figure out what is going on
It is really as simple as that.
Limited as in "you only get xx sets" not as in restricted.
There was even a raffle at DT for the last sets...
You were allowed to buy as many as you want, people just didnt, they waited till the GB was over then started wanting it. How is that OTD/DT's fault?
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Yeah, I tried that.
They wanted some Korean phone number for registration. This got me frustrated and I dropped it.
I don't know if this is Korean law (they do have some internet laws, i.e. Diablo 3 AH) but I'm not fond of that...
Ehm, hell yeah it was limited if you don't speak frickin Korean!
Additional InformationWe have a total of 300 sets ordered, I have about 30 available for international distribution. First come first serve. Orders will close on Sunday Night (26.06.2011) The keys will go into production after that. Then there is shipping, sorting, distribution. Expect the keycaps around October to be safe (possibly earlier).
Source: http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/rebel-red-alert-ended-prepare-for-left-over-sets-april-1-t860.html?hilit=red%20alert (http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/rebel-red-alert-ended-prepare-for-left-over-sets-april-1-t860.html?hilit=red%20alert)
Only 30 for non-Koreans. How is that not limited? Please, enlighten me...
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Yeah, I tried that.
They wanted some Korean phone number for registration. This got me frustrated and I dropped it.
I don't know if this is Korean law (they do have some internet laws, i.e. Diablo 3 AH) but I'm not fond of that...
It's their culture/law...
I'm sure they are not fond of a lot of things we do also.
Once again I registered with a north american phone number for OTD
A lot of OTD/KBDmania users actually signed up for PayPal so they can join our GBs as this is not a service they normally use.
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i signed up to OTD/KBDmania with no problems.
don't really visit either as OTD has too much of an elitist feel to it and KBDmania gets throttled outside of SK :(
that and i dont remember my passwords.
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limmy shared this with me: http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/4835717 it helps with the picture loading speed on KBD by far.
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not a firefox user :(
somebody find this for chrome >.>
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not a firefox user :(
somebody find this for chrome >.>
x2
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I just right click save img as >_>
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But you have to understand this.
They come to OUR forum, use OUR language and follow OUR rules for OUR group buys
We are COMPLETELY allowed to do the same thing, when we don't we cry that they don't invite us?
I don't see how anyone can complain that this is a one way relationship, they took their time to come to GH/DT to register, speak English and figure out what is going on
It is really as simple as that.
Limited as in "you only get xx sets" not as in restricted.
There was even a raffle at DT for the last sets...
You were allowed to buy as many as you want, people just didnt, they waited till the GB was over then started wanting it. How is that OTD/DT's fault?
Sorry, but that is BS and you know it. Look at the Cherry GB right now. There is a HARD limit of 110 sets. There was a HARD limit of the number of KMACs available. We don't do that kind of thing in this community. A group buy gets as many people to participate as possible. In fact, it isn't all that infrequent that we reach out to other communities and invite them INTO our GBs. I have yet to see that courtesy extended to us from across the pond.
You know what happened as soon as images of the KMAC mini were leaked here? The whole thread was shut down to protect the person who took them. I would like to find evidence of us going onto those forums and yelling at them to take down images of projects we're doing. Seriously it was like the sky was falling because images of a highly anticipated keyboard were leaked on a "sister" community forum. Really?
I have to go back and find it, but there was a GB where the organizer for KBD kept asking for more and more stuff from the GH GB organizer to so they could have everything in order for the international orders, even if it wouldn't benefit OUR community directly. And the GB leader did it for them. We don't get that courtesy when we are given the "pleasure" of participating in one of their group buys, instead when we want to customize it and do a run ourselves we have to adhere to whatever the hell they decide for us.
The insinuation that they learn English for the sake of participating on Geekhack is atrocious. Every Korean learns English because it's mandatory. Can you say the same for those of us schooled and raised in the U.S? I'll make it easy: NO >_<". Furthermore, nobody is crying because we weren't "invited" to the party. We're crying because we should have to be "invited" in the first place. We're upset because we open our doors fully, with very relaxed rules regarding our buys and our intellectual property, and every time we want to expand the reach of the community we're accused of trying to rip someone off. It's preposterous and just plain mean. I'm under the impression group buys are done to enrich the community, not create classes of those who "have" and those who "don't". But that's exactly what this behavior perpetuates, and it makes me sick.
Cheers,
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Once again I registered with a north american phone number for OTD
Well, doesn't work with my German cell phone. So even IF I can speak Korean, exactly how am I suppose to register? Buy a SIM from a Korean carrier?
You can't deny there is a barrier...
I totally agree with Mr. Orange.
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not a firefox user :(
somebody find this for chrome >.>
FoxyProxy is just a plugin that makes changing proxy's easier and lets you keep multiple proxy's. For Chrome the equiv is Proxy Switchy (https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/caehdcpeofiiigpdhbabniblemipncjj)
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Thanks alary <3 I was going to look for one but you found it already! You so awesome.
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Main reason why Korean GB is limited in quantity is because group buy organizers cannot handle large orders in their spare time. Group buy organizers in Korean keyboard forums are "not supposed to make profit" and doing group buy is seen as free service provided to the community. These facts do not help in any way to increase the quantity limit either. (The no profit rule seems to be outdated in this capitalist world but the rule was instated in response to frequent flame wars between members.)
Most of GH's group buys are on key caps. They are light and easy to carry. Probably not so hard to label and package. But think about KMAC or any other aluminum keyboards. There was one instance where someone's suspension of a car was broken during transporting machined aluminum for anodizing. Another instance is where KMAC group buy organizer's place was filled with boxes so that more than half of his living room was filled with boxes. Korean houses are generally small and Koreans don't have large garage like many Americans. One third of Korean population is residing in metropolitan area hence spaces are limited.
I don't fully understand why there is limited quantity for the dye sub mod set, but it seems to along those lines. The hardship of taking many orders are not compensated hence the limitation in the quantity. Even if there were compensation, I would think the amount of extra work one person can do in addition to his/her day job is limited.
As far as I know, there is no intention of making a GB item rare. There is going to be second batch of KMAC available and it is open for everyone who can say I am in. You would have to be able to send money to Korean banks and have Korean address to ship to(not all GB organizers are shipping internationally). But those barriers are inevitable international barriers and are by no means intended for discriminating. Rather, the rules are focused on convenience of group buy organizers who are doing free service to the community.
I hope this clears some of the misunderstanding.
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Main reason why Korean GB is limited in quantity is because group buy organizers cannot handle large orders in their spare time. Group buy organizers in Korean keyboard forums are "not supposed to make profit" and doing group buy is seen as free service provided to the community. These facts do not help in any way to increase the quantity limit either. (The no profit rule seems to be outdated in this capitalist world but the rule was instated in response to frequent flame wars between members.)
Most of GH's group buys are on key caps. They are light and easy to carry. Probably not so hard to label and package. But think about KMAC or any other aluminum keyboards. There was one instance where someone's suspension of a car was broken during transporting machined aluminum for anodizing. Another instance is where KMAC group buy organizer's place was filled with boxes so that more than half of his living room was filled with boxes. Korean houses are generally small and Koreans don't have large garage like many Americans. One third of Korean population is residing in metropolitan area hence spaces are limited.
I don't fully understand why there is limited quantity for the dye sub mod set, but it seems to along those lines. The hardship of taking many orders are not compensated hence the limitation in the quantity. Even if there were compensation, I would think the amount of extra work one person can do in addition to his/her day job is limited.
As far as I know, there is no intention of making a GB item rare. There is going to be second batch of KMAC available and it is open for everyone who can say I am in. You would have to be able to send money to Korean banks and have Korean address to ship to(not all GB organizers are shipping internationally). But those barriers are inevitable international barriers and are by no means intended for discriminating. Rather, the rules are focused on convenience of group buy organizers who are doing free service to the community.
I hope this clears some of the misunderstanding.
This is really helpful, limmy. Thanks for clearing this up. Perhaps this might be an opportunity where GH could take on some of the burden of handling to ease larger orders? Just a thought.
Possibly shipping the materials stateside for US orders, and assembly happening here as well? I am sure there must be a mutually beneficial way of doing this for minimal overhead.
Any thoughts on that?
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Main reason why Korean GB is limited in quantity is because group buy organizers cannot handle large orders in their spare time. Group buy organizers in Korean keyboard forums are "not supposed to make profit" and doing group buy is seen as free service provided to the community. These facts do not help in any way to increase the quantity limit either. (The no profit rule seems to be outdated in this capitalist world but the rule was instated in response to frequent flame wars between members.)
Most of GH's group buys are on key caps. They are light and easy to carry. Probably not so hard to label and package. But think about KMAC or any other aluminum keyboards. There was one instance where someone's suspension of a car was broken during transporting machined aluminum for anodizing. Another instance is where KMAC group buy organizer's place was filled with boxes so that more than half of his living room was filled with boxes. Korean houses are generally small and Koreans don't have large garage like many Americans. One third of Korean population is residing in metropolitan area hence spaces are limited.
I don't fully understand why there is limited quantity for the dye sub mod set, but it seems to along those lines. The hardship of taking many orders are not compensated hence the limitation in the quantity. Even if there were compensation, I would think the amount of extra work one person can do in addition to his/her day job is limited.
As far as I know, there is no intention of making a GB item rare. There is going to be second batch of KMAC available and it is open for everyone who can say I am in. You would have to be able to send money to Korean banks and have Korean address to ship to(not all GB organizers are shipping internationally). But those barriers are inevitable international barriers and are by no means intended for discriminating. Rather, the rules are focused on convenience of group buy organizers who are doing free service to the community.
I hope this clears some of the misunderstanding.
Thanks limmy, this is of use, and helps somewhat. But tbh, I don't understand why our forums can't have a mutual agreement that what is ours is yours and vice versa. As you said, no-one on your side is in it "for profit", so why is there all this defensiveness surrounding IP and second runs of defunct GBs. If there wasn't any intention of making items rare, there would have been an implicit assumption that doing a second run of the Red Alert set, in it's full originality, wouldn't cause friction at all. This holds true for the RGB buy as well.
If it's not about money, why can't there be concurrent group buys, one for Yanks and one for you guys, which would reduce demand on the Korean organizers and make everyone happy?
Cheers,
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Please read my post here( http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/4835717 ) for internet traffic throttling. It is cost reasons. Internet traffic is not free.
Designs are intellectual property. Some are more defensive about it. But I heard Ragnorock never got to ask for permission. It is not that the owner of the design said no and was all protective. It was some speculation that speculated the designer was protective.
I am describing the general picture of Korean group buys. I too wonder why separate group buys for replica pissed off soulfree(Korean GB organizer). I mostly agree with Magicmeatball's points, but I have not lead any group buys and I don't know the details of ordering caps from SP.. I can only guess.. However, I can comfortably rule out some of the speculations you guys are making such as wanting the set to be rare and remain rare. At least that is what my understanding of the Korean group buys tell me.
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Thanks limmy, this is of use, and helps somewhat. But tbh, I don't understand why our forums can't have a mutual agreement that what is ours is yours and vice versa. As you said, no-one on your side is in it "for profit", so why is there all this defensiveness surrounding IP and second runs of defunct GBs. If there wasn't any intention of making items rare, there would have been an implicit assumption that doing a second run of the Red Alert set, in it's full originality, wouldn't cause friction at all. This holds true for the RGB buy as well.
If it's not about money, why can't there be concurrent group buys, one for Yanks and one for you guys, which would reduce demand on the Korean organizers and make everyone happy?
Cheers,
Exactly.
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Limmy what you've said clarifies a lot of things and I'm very grateful for the insight. Everything you've said sounds reasonable, but MM does raise a good point that if it isn't about the organizer making money and is just a service to the community, then it would logically follow that a very simple way to increase the service to the community without any additional expenditures of effort or money would be to encourage foreign organizers to share the burden by allowing other group buys to take place. That both reduces the number of orders that they have to pack/handle, and has no "negative" impact on their end (since financially it makes no difference.) While you did mention that individuals see intellectual property differently and you are making generalizations for simplicity, I would certainly not mind if someone over there wanted to make a biohazard keycap, even if it was solely my idea and funds that made it happen. All I would ask is that the group buy organizer contact me first, to which I would almost assuredly say yes, but even if they didn't I wouldn't be upset enough to start a cross forum dispute over it. Conversely, if someone was to say "Hey I'm starting up a group buy for more biohazard keys" today, while I'm still trying to sell leftovers of the ones that haven't even been shipped out yet, I'd certainly have something to say about it. Even then, if it was some sort of different color combo and there was interest, I'd probably say "Sure I'll start a new one up ASAP."
All in all, a discussion over here isn't going to change a thing on how the Korean forums run their group buys, they're going to keep doing it their way until they decide on their own to change. But Limmy is right, most of their group buys are for keyboards and cases, not so much with keycaps... and those are much more bulky and expensive to deal with so limitations make more sense.
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I mostly agree with Tsangan. Taeyoung and the other Korean proxies that buy up large chunks of our orders come to our forum, speak our language, follow our rules, and send payment the way we want. I've noticed a steady growth in the number of Koreans participating directly on GH, and this is a very good thing imo.
The barrier is larger going the other direction since English speakers don't typically speak any Korean or have access to easy, cheap bank transfers. To say that Koreans are taught English in school is beside the point. A natural inequity exists there, and there's nothing we can do about it directly, short of learning Korean.
Limmy's clarifications are very helpful, especially the part about the group buys being limited for everyone (including Koreans) due to acceptable load on the organizer and space concerns.
We should remember that GH has always been a worldwide community. Having two main hemispheres of users (NA and EU) has forced us to get used to shipping worldwide and dealing with the complications that come with that. The Korean forums, on the other hand, are made up almost entirely of Koreans. The forums are gradually getting to know each other and meld and form relationships. That takes time and is not without growing pains, false starts, and misunderstandings.
Tsangan and I have both been very vocal about not stepping on toes with regard to reusing or copying legends. Perhaps we have been over-cautious here, but in the early phases of any relationship it is better to be safe than sorry. I think it's the case that the Koreans understand us and our ways better than we do theirs. We are still in the process of getting to know them and how they operate, so the burden is on us to be careful not to cause misunderstandings.
All this is to say that we should chill out and not get our panties in a twist over things like the RGBY debacle. Soulfree is a reasonable guy, and he had his reasons for being upset, which are private. He and boost and I worked it out, and the result is that we joined forces and got in at a very good price tier. It's true that in this particular case the number of sets are limited. TBH I don't fully understand why that is but I imagine it has to do with the fact that the OTD buy finished taking orders a while ago now. My panties are fine with this, and I hope yours are too.
Our communities are gradually learning to work together. The Red Cherry group buy was run simultaneously on GH, DT, and kbdmania. I hope that future rounds of moogles and RGBYs are as well, as there seems to be no end to our appetite for those. The Dolch replica buy will certainly be a joint project. Moving forward, I think having NA, EU, and KR distributors for large buys is the way to go.
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I mostly agree with Tsangan. Taeyoung and the other Korean proxies that buy up large chunks of our orders come to our forum, speak our language, follow our rules, and send payment the way we want. I've noticed a steady growth in the number of Koreans participating directly on GH, and this is a very good thing imo.
The barrier is larger going the other direction since English speakers don't typically speak any Korean or have access to easy, cheap bank transfers. To say that Koreans are taught English in school is beside the point. A natural inequity exists there, and there's nothing we can do about it directly, short of learning Korean.
Limmy's clarifications are very helpful, especially the part about the group buys being limited for everyone (including Koreans) due to acceptable load on the organizer and space concerns.
We should remember that GH has always been a worldwide community. Having two main hemispheres of users (NA and EU) has forced us to get used to shipping worldwide and dealing with the complications that come with that. The Korean forums, on the other hand, are made up almost entirely of Koreans. The forums are gradually getting to know each other and meld and form relationships. That takes time and is not without growing pains, false starts, and misunderstandings.
Tsangan and I have both been very vocal about not stepping on toes with regard to reusing or copying legends. Perhaps we have been over-cautious here, but in the early phases of any relationship it is better to be safe than sorry. I think it's the case that the Koreans understand us and our ways better than we do theirs. We are still in the process of getting to know them and how they operate, so the burden is on us to be careful not to cause misunderstandings.
All this is to say that we should chill out and not get our panties in a twist over things like the RGBY debacle. Soulfree is a reasonable guy, and he had his reasons for being upset, which are private. He and boost and I worked it out, and the result is that we joined forces and got in at a very good price tier. It's true that in this particular case the number of sets are limited. TBH I don't fully understand why that is but I imagine it has to do with the fact that the OTD buy finished taking orders a while ago now. My panties are fine with this, and I hope yours are too.
Our communities are gradually learning to work together. The Red Cherry group buy was run simultaneously on GH, DT, and kbdmania. I hope that future rounds of moogles and RGBYs are as well, as there seems to be no end to our appetite for those. The Dolch replica buy will certainly be a joint project. Moving forward, I think having NA, EU, and KR distributors for large buys is the way to go.
Thanks Hash. I feel like you're points help make mine more than Tsangan's but now I had a full night's sleep and have decided that you're right in it isn't worth getting panties too bunched up over. I'm just glad that we actually got a response, in public, from someone who understands the Korean KB community better than us.
I think it's funny you call RGBY a "debacle" but yet it's not a big deal. You're funny :-D.
Cheers,
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Thanks for clearing that up hashbaz. I haven't been able to read much on GH lately, so I guess there has been much talk and speculation about this dyesub RGBY group buy that I have missed. Even in the case of this thread, one of my friends brought it up to my attention.
TBH, I wasn't trying to force boost to stop the dyesub RGBY group buy for any "copyright" reasons and never been "pissed off" about Boost running the gb. Boost is one of the recent friends that I made in GH, and I just thought there were some misunderstandings that me, hash, and boost had to clear before proceeding on and eventually, after a relatively long conversation, Boost wanted to collaborate with me on the group buy.
As far as the limited quanity goes, I certainly do have room for more orders if that is needed and if it's ok with boost. I just initially limited it to 100-120 sets each since that was the predicted quantity from GH based on the first order thread.
Also, as anyone who had ran a group buy or two would understand, there is much work and responsibilty to take care of when running these gb's. And most of us all have other jobs to attend to that limit us from being active 24-7. So, ofc helping out everyone to get everything they need is very nice, but at some point, whether it's a deadline or quantity limit, I have to close the group buy to prevent an overload of volunteer work that I have to do. It's really not about making the set rare or limited. At least for me, it's not.
Here, we are talking about 500 sets from OTD, 200+ sets from GH for now, and if Koreans start to order from boost, those sets will eventually come to me to make it 500+. I understand the frustration of not getting the set that u want and I think I have been pretty flexible with certain cases so far. So, I will talk to boost to see if he wants to handle more than 120 sets each, and we can go from there.
And I really appreciate those folks who have been trying to explain things to calm people down in the threads. I certainly will try to be more vocal to prevent such unwanted noise in this nice community. And I promise i'll do my best in my capacity to make this a successful group buy. :-)
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Thanks soulfree for your time and dedication to the project!
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somehow this went way beyond a WTB into an incredibly productive thread on US/KR relations. nice job guys