The goal is to get a little lighter feel with much less ping (my mini is the worst of my BS boards). So I just bought a Boscom (Unicomp) and will cannibalize the 122 springs and hammers.
Wondering...could you get away with just doing a single row of bolts along the middle of the keyboard (say just above the home row)?
The plastic piece seems to want to stay flatter than the metal panel is curved so it seems it would hold itself safely in place and not need the bolts. That would reduce labour and time needed for this by a huge amount.
Ripster reckons you can get away with only 9 of them. Im not sure which nine it is though.
interesting idea... the model f's pcb is held in place (and in shape) by a similar technique -- just 2 metal pins in the middle-row of the board
Hmm...what kind of flex is there in that design?
None. But that is different because there's no membrane to be attached to the bottom plate. I has a hard, thick PCB that slots into the bottom plate.
(images)
None. But that is different because there's no membrane to be attached to the bottom plate. I has a hard, thick PCB that slots into the bottom plate.Show Image(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/9581/img3325.jpg)Show Image(http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7734/img3329.jpg)
Another consideration with the capacitive IBM boards is the question of how sensitive they might be to any sloppiness introduced by making them into individual switches, etc.
The original PCBs are careful to screen against any cross-capacitive effects by wrapping each pad and signal trace (on the backside) and then the whole board (both sides) in ground traces. So cutting it apart, making individual switches, rearranging them into a new layout, and mounting them to a new board or wiring them up might introduce some problems, capacitively speaking, that might have to be addressed.
It would definitely take some experimentation to find out - but it would be a noble experiment, indeed.
Of course, what we really need is a self-contained buckling beam switch :)
That one is easy. If you are Japanese that is. Look up the IBM A01.
how many model M have at least one broken rivet? what % of broken rivets are needed before this mod is required?
Also, if you want to make sure you can still keep the drain channel features of the keyboard, use some 1 or 5 minute epoxy, rubber cement, or paint around the screw heads as well as behind the stabilizer bar area for your spacebar and any 2x keys that may use the stabilizer bar. Oddly enough, that area is open for liquids to get in, but on the older M's without the drain channels, it's not. Design flaw or feature? You decide.
Well, I started out thinking there must be a way to do this with Imperial hardware but this was the big barrier. You have to squeeze these two plates together and yet not have anything stick out below the metal plate more than about 2mm (see the earlier pics of the indents in the case bottom).
1/4" bolts are too short and 3/8" too big...
...8mm is perfect
58 for a fullsize.
Acht und funfzig. (I'd put the umlaut in but I'm lazy)
Why not use a drill press to drill out the studs with good alignment? It seems so... obvious...
YAAAAAARRRGGGHHHH!
On fifth try with same board. four hammers out of place. I hate this mod.
Interesting that you feel no difference. In my case, the board felt more solid, the typing more damped and overall feel much more even. I did have 13 broken rivets before I modified my my Mini. Before this mod, I would compare the Mini to an old basketball court with uneven bounces. Especialy on the right side by the enter key and the numpad. Now it's much tighter. I did screw each nut down fairly tightly I probably have about 3 threads exposed across the entire board.
The only reason I had a tough time with the springs/hammers was due to the crack in my frame. If the crack buckled, I would need to disassemble the keyboard and start again.
Congrats on getting it done. The next one will be much easier.
skc
So the hammers were directly against the plastic sheet? wow.
No wonder they won't stay in place, eh? Talk about zero friction...
I wonder if the modded 'board doesn't allow the plate to flex as much, thus directing more force into the switch activation instead of "bending" the plate.
ricercar, forgot to ask. When you had the hammers up against the sheet and the membrane on the bottom; did it even work?
On another note, I switched back to my other unicomp space saver with the original rivets. After using the 'modded' one for a week or so I can say that the unmodded space saver feels tighter and seems to require a bit more push to get the key to go.
The modded space saver feels a bit lighter overall. I need to take the covers off and look at the nuts and see how much thread is showing.
If anything, the modded keyboard may be somewhat 'adjustable'. I will know more when I tighten/loosen the nuts.
EDIT: I am adding a few pointers after doing 4 of these. You can use this method successfully to fix a broken rivet area WITHOUT removing each and every rivet with a chisel. On my 122Key terminal board I did a quick fix on one area with 6 broken rivets by just driving a couple of screwholes, inserting bolts and tightening. There is a remote danger of plastic dust making it's way in between the membranes but hasn't happened to me and when examining sheets after a test I didn't see any.
I just replaced 12 missing rivets on one of my Minis using the above method. It worked out great, thanks for the instructions.
Why would anyone do this mod on a keyboard with no missing rivets?
Surely you mean "drilling a couple of screwholes"? It's either that, or my english sucks :)
I can't comment on your English skills but I definitely got more out of this article than just "drilling a couple of screwholes." I wouldn't have known that it was safe to drill without completely disassembling unless I did my own experimenting, so the instructions saved me a good bit of time. Also, he provided specific nut/bolt/drill bit sizes which saved a lot of guesswork.
I wasn't commenting the article. I was only commenting the EDIT that you quoted in your previous post so I didn't deem it neccessary to quote it again.
Anyway, I was referring to the part where it says "On my 122Key terminal board I did a quick fix on one area with 6 broken rivets by just driving a couple of screwholes, inserting bolts and tightening." and was just trying to clear up the meaning of "driving a couple of screwholes" as I wasn't quite sure what he meant.
And now that BigPook has done it (even if he didn't read the instructions fully :biggrin1:) I can safely say ANYONE can do it.
Don't get ahead of yourself. The jury is still out on my rivet repair.
Yo, Ricer (you asian or sumpthin)! This one's easy. Helen Keller can do it an she dead. Sheeeeet.Yo
You're welcome.
And now that BigPook has done it (even if he didn't read the instructions fully :biggrin1:) I can safely say ANYONE can do it.
Alrighty. So, my original question still stands: driving = drilling; in this case? :)
How did you remove the springs without opening the assembly? I tried tweezers but wasn't that successful.
ChopstickOdeath is your friend.Show Image(http://geekhack.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9874&stc=1&d=1273501991)
I'm having a lot of difficulty getting a centered hole on these things. Might have to track down a drill press. How are you guys starting your drill holes?
Sharpen Your Chisel!
I use a small scratch-all to set an indentation for the bit.
Show Image(http://fototime.com/9C77E1A9C34EA5C/standard.jpg)
impossible to drill those holes straight.
One of you pro bolt-modders should establish a service and do boltmods for a flat fee. I'd be an interested customer for sure.
That's simple. They reach in the parts box, pull out a main assembly, and pop it into your case I assume reusing your controller. Not sure about the keys.
Because M2 are really hard to come by in the uk.
Check to make sure that there isn't some excess plastic "crud" on the rivets that prevent you from tightening up.
Do all bolts have about two threads exposed?
Did you follow the instructions for cleaning the membrane and making sure it was dust free?
I think I am cheaper. I used a blank PCI slot as the chisel which is less than ideal.
I had to cut and sand down the plastic detritus that was left over, which isn't so hard, just takes more time.
Registers without you pressing it?
Sounds like a plastic sliver snuck in to me. The rubber mats AFAIK are identical. At least my Boscom felt like my IBMs.
Chuck is a short timer now. Probably can't wait to get out the door and go shoot something in the Kentucky woods.
Like a Geekhacker.
Like I said earlier..........
Anybody read my posts around here.....?Show Image(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4843/mofoyh4au3.gif)
All-in-all, the sound of this 1390131 is a lot like the sound of my old 83-key Model F, if the feel is a little less precise. Since I have the tiny hardware, I will keep it on hand but leave well enough alone for now. The touch of this 1390131 is very nice, I suppose that it is the sound - high, tinny, pingy, with a good deal of "sproing" that surprised me.
Thanks for the help. Harry
[...] I would realistically need to net at least $80 to make much more than minimum wage if I sell the things. And at $100 I would still not be making a skilled worker's hourly rate.tell me about it!
[...]
Just completed this, pressed a few keys and it didn't seem as crisp as I would have thought. Plugged it in, it didn't work. Then I read the Wikis again and realized some rivet stubs surrounding the bolts were keeping the springs from making contact with the steel plate. Derp.