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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => DIY Discussions ARCHIVE => Topic started by: rdjack21 on Sat, 05 September 2009, 12:20:21

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: rdjack21 on Sat, 05 September 2009, 12:20:21

The reason that key next to the enter key is a duplicate of the \ key is because generally the original \ key will be pulled so the ISO style enter key will fit. My Japanese board has the ISO enter key and \ is placed in the location your duplicate key is at.

On my Japanese board I've mapped that extra key next to the backspace as a backspace because I tend to hit the left side of the backspace. The only key left that is giving me issues is the right shift. I'm hitting the up arrow instead of the shift key. Seeing how rarely I use the up arrow I'm thinking I may remap it to be a shift key.

Oh if you don't know what board I'm talking about hit the link in my signature for the MD01B0 to see it.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: Rajagra on Sat, 05 September 2009, 14:11:24

The 2 \ keys are not the same in scan code set 3 (http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/scan.htm), I don't know if that's of any practical use though.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: JohnElliott on Sat, 05 September 2009, 17:43:30

Quote from: ripster;115099

I'm not sure either since I have no idea what Scan Code Set 3 is?  Is that what today's PCs use?

No, today's PCs use set 2.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: stevster on Sun, 06 September 2009, 04:38:34

So with this mod it is possible an ANSI > ISO conversion? Maybe with the keys from a regular Model M?

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: stevster on Sun, 06 September 2009, 15:18:17

Good news! I want a Model M Mini in Italian layout but I believe they aren't never produced.

Unfortunately for this I must sacrifice a perfect working Italian Model M, buy a (costly) Model M Mini shipped from USA and work for some hours...

Maybe finally Unicomp will produce these? And some european distributor will sell Unicomp keyboards without the high shipping costs from USA?

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: stevster on Mon, 07 September 2009, 15:27:07

If I can buy new keys/hammers/springs from Unicomp for a reasonable price (not too weight for a cheap shipment), perhaps I can get a used Model M Mini to refurb...

I think this is the only way to get a mechanical "tenkeyless" keyboard in Italian layout... made it by myself!

lol

thanks for the informations, great forum :)

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Tue, 08 September 2009, 11:44:37

That looks like a slick layout. Keep us posted.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 08 September 2009, 12:10:27

Quote from: ripster;115765

Plus, it's my right hand that gets sore and that's more of a mouse issue.

QFT.  Once I figured this out, I realized ergo layouts weren't really helping me.  I switched my mouse (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=086), and now I am pain-free.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 08 September 2009, 12:18:54

Quote from: webwit;115777

One thing what's cool aboμt the μTRON is that no one is able to type μTRON properly withoμt troμble.

It keeps people from μsing yoμr compμter.  That's sμper.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: JBert on Wed, 09 September 2009, 02:45:10

Quote from: ripster;115747

Now this is a different layout.  I call this the "Ergo Mini", aka "America Strikes Back At The Utron!"
[Mini pic]

I got the idea from Jbert in the Ergonomic Keyboard Thread. (http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=115514&postcount=87)  I put in the Keys Wiki the historical reason for the staggering, it's one of those "just because that what typists are used to".  If you look down as you are typing though you will probably see that you either have an elbow drawn in, an angled left wrist, a torqued body, or some combination of the above.

Enter the Utron:
[μTRON pic]
Webwit has one.  It makes logical sense.  But does it blend?

[snip]

• The ZXCVB is a pain.  I think it is the non-uniform staggering.  See the Key Wiki Section 3 (http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys#Key_Types__Size_and_Spacing) for details.  Also, notice the Utron has smaller keys and that makes the reach issues easier but adds one more thing to adjust to on the right hand.  It's a trade-off.
  

[snip]

Nice, but I do want to give credit where credit is due: Dreymar and Rajagra first talked about it here. It originated somewhere on the colemak forums, I guess.

My point was that even if you'd go out and shift those keys, you still have a problem because your fingers cannot easily reach the desired key due to incorrect staggering. It is something you can't change easily unless you want to design custom keyboards. Should you do that though, you could go for a Cherry or model F keyboard (the model F has separate key housings).


@webwit:
Again, I'm impressed by the μTRON for having the guts to change this. However, I have to note that various Maltron keyboards also fix this by having non-staggered keys.
By accident got/tried any of those flat Maltron keyboards?

EDIT: Just another thing: the μTRON gets the slanting right by having each row offset by 1/3, whereas your average keyboard uses 1/2, 1/3 and 1/2 offsets. This means your fingers only have to move diagonal whereas the typewriter slanting forces strange finger movements.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: kode on Wed, 09 September 2009, 05:51:58

that µTRON certainly looks interesting, if only it didn't cost $500+.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 29 September 2009, 15:47:25

Nice work.  42 bolts/nuts is only overkill if you have to deal with them more than once.  Otherwise, the more the merrier, IMO.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: ricercar on Mon, 23 November 2009, 18:18:38

Last night i just popped my 42 nuts for the first time. zOMFG. I hadn't realized what I was in for. Still, the board's T and Y were non-functional so there's nothing to lose.


But the third time i was re-installing the springs (my toddler was 'helping' me) I decided it was enough for one night.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: Shawn Stanford on Tue, 24 November 2009, 07:51:16

Quote from: ricercar;135697

Last night i just popped my 42 nuts for the first time.

In a row?

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 28 December 2009, 16:45:58

Someday I want to do that to an IBM Model M. I'll get  one with a number pad though if I do it to use the spots on the + and Enter keys. I read that they work in some documentation on the internet.

What I'd probably do is get some clear key caps from clickykeyboards.com if I ever do this and put paper captions on the extra keys. Then I'd stuff the keyboard unit into my M5-2 and have the only 108-key Model M with a trackball on the planet.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: skcheng on Tue, 13 April 2010, 07:40:39

I just came across this thread in my attempt to learn about all of the different options available for mini.   Cool stuff!!   I'm converting a German board back over to the US layout.    Gerrman keycaps anyone???

Question:   how do you "NOT" use the rt Shift key??   The Shift is probaby the only rt/lt key that I couldn't live without.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: pfink on Tue, 13 April 2010, 11:12:20

Quote from: skcheng;171808

Question:   how do you "NOT" use the rt Shift key??   The Shift is probaby the only rt/lt key that I couldn't live without.

Looks like the second Caps Lock is right Shift. It's probably the only key that will fit there.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 29 November 2010, 20:00:08

I was reseating the stablizer on the Enter key on my Gateway2000 keyboard when I noticed a similar feature to the one exploited here in this mod.

When I took off the Shift key, I noticed an extra hole for a key underneath, with a contact in the membrane, just like that with the Model M.

Now, the nice thing about this keyboard is that I should easily be able to add another switch under there. All I need is a rubber dome and another slider, and just about any other Cherry-compatible key cap.

I think that I might pursue this idea if I can find another one of these old Gateway keyboards for cheap.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Tue, 18 January 2011, 20:21:50

Thanks a ton for this guide, ripster. As I mentioned in the bolt mod discussion, this is the mod that prompted me to go for the bolt mod.

Thanks a ton, and my msucle memory thanks you as well. Finally, a true UNIX layout Model M. If only I could find another stepped control key...

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: theferenc on Tue, 18 January 2011, 20:58:48

Just to show off the new layout:

(http://www.cs.indiana.edu/cgi-pub/dmcgrath/unix_ibm.jpg)

The randomly labeled keys are from a 3196 terminal 122 key. There are 8 registry keys needed to make this work in windows:

the key currently labeled reset is remapped from \| to backspace
the blank key where ESC usually is located is caps lock
caps lock is control
both control keys are actually windows keys
the \| key required remapping, as it send an unused scancode.
`~ had to be moved from where ESC is now to its current location, with old location mapped to ESC, and new location mapped from backspace to `~.

I could have gone with the autohotkey script, but the admin in my department prefers the registry remap instead. Plus, that works better for my network KVM anyway, since it operates at a lower level in the OS than AHK.

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: wulax on Wed, 02 February 2011, 20:38:19

I also have to thank ripster. This guide convinced me to convert a US layout Model M Space Saving into my native Swe/Fi layout. I bolt modded the keyboard, bought from Ebay a while back, some springs from clickykeyboards, and Swedish keys with red escape from Unicomp. Now the only thing missing is a USB controller...

(http://i.imgur.com/8Pvpg.jpg)

Title: A 88 Key Model M Mini - The DIY International Keyboard
Post by: Ekaros on Sat, 12 March 2011, 05:32:28

Quote from: wulax;289098

I also have to thank ripster. This guide convinced me to convert a US layout Model M Space Saving into my native Swe/Fi layout. I bolt modded the keyboard, bought from Ebay a while back, some springs from clickykeyboards, and Swedish keys with red escape from Unicomp. Now the only thing missing is a USB controller...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/8Pvpg.jpg)

Hmm, that is bad keyboard made good ;D