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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: itlnstln on Thu, 02 September 2010, 10:37:28

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 02 September 2010, 10:37:28

I did my duty.  I was surprised to see Filco mentioned in the survey.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 02 September 2010, 10:57:58

The guy who wrote this obviously wasn't a mechanical keyboard user, since the questions compare all mechanical keyboards to the IBM Model M. The question about if I prefer "clicky" or "softer" keys I clicked softer (for MX browns) until I realized that "clicky" was being used as a synonym to mechanical since they included the 7G under that.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 02 September 2010, 12:02:38

Took it, steered them to mechanical as best as I could.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: erricrice on Thu, 02 September 2010, 12:17:34

Did what I can to make it mechanical.

(And yeah phaedrus, I noticed that too, pretty lame...)

I threw in a curveball at the end though, just to mess with em.  Who would make a keyboard stock with metal keycaps?  Lol, but I put it just in case...

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Superfluous Parentheses on Thu, 02 September 2010, 13:43:53

I'm not looking for gaming keyboards. Is it ethical to fill in the questionnaire regardless?

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: didjamatic on Thu, 02 September 2010, 13:46:09

Of course.  I use a "Gaming Mouse" G9X but never touch the DPI button, nor do I game (unless you count Angry Birds on iphone :)

Everyone benefits from Gaming driving computer hardware forward, especially if you're like most people and don't pay for the bleeding edge, we get powerful yesterday's models that wouldn't have existed had it not been driven by gaming.  Or porn.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Arc'xer on Thu, 02 September 2010, 14:01:15

Even though I already posted it on another thread a few days ago.

I notice the whole PS/2 vs USB thing popping up a lot. And I think the reasoning for PS/2 are too mucked up on NKRO, they are all hung up on I only have 5 fingers on each hand.

It's not about impossible key presses. Just because NKRO gives you full key, isn't just for individual it's about eliminating combination issues on the entire PCB, having redundancy. I mean I'm paying mostly above 100 dollars for a keyboard I at least expect it to be better than most.

It's about having a dedicated port that directly interrupts the CPU rather than be polled hence quicker. It's not just a port to maximize a redundancy system. Seems like most of the time people forget their keyboard gets connected and doesn't leave, why not use a port that some are calling for it's end already. Does PS/2 have it's negative of course but a free port is a free port, some people are practically using every universal bus on their mobo.

Even before I get into keyboards I always felt like my PS/2 keyboard had this snappiness to them.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: ch_123 on Thu, 02 September 2010, 14:13:10

NKRO over USB is possible with standard HID drivers. Manufacturers just make **** controllers.

Given that Diatec have to put some sort of PS/2 protocol converter in there somewhere, you'd think that they'd just make a USB controller that works properly. Then again, you'd think that they'd make decent keycaps...

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: obsolete on Thu, 02 September 2010, 14:54:55

Quote from: didjamatic;219229

Of course.  I use a "Gaming Mouse" G9X but never touch the DPI button

no one touches the DPI button. useless sht

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Phaedrus2129 on Thu, 02 September 2010, 15:04:44

Quote from: obsolete;219263

no one touches the DPI button. useless sht

I do. Some older games need to be run on a lower resolution, and thus I have to lower the dpi of the mouse to be comfortable.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: obsolete on Thu, 02 September 2010, 15:14:20

Quote from: Phaedrus2129;219270

I do. Some older games need to be run on a lower resolution, and thus I have to lower the dpi of the mouse to be comfortable.

okay, well not while youre playing like they say, 'on the fly'
the button should be underneath the mouse

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 02 September 2010, 15:50:22

Quote from: didjamatic;219229

Of course.  I use a "Gaming Mouse" G9X but never touch the DPI button, nor do I game (unless you count Angry Birds on iphone :)

Everyone benefits from Gaming driving computer hardware forward, especially if you're like most people and don't pay for the bleeding edge, we get powerful yesterday's models that wouldn't have existed had it not been driven by gaming.  Or porn.

Most people don't even use their macros and LCDs for actual gaming

Quote from: Phaedrus2129;219270

I do. Some older games need to be run on a lower resolution, and thus I have to lower the dpi of the mouse to be comfortable.

Same here but for Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight 100 CPI isn't low enough, so I have to lower the Windows Pointer Speed.

Quote from: obsolete;219272

okay, well not while youre playing like they say, 'on the fly'
the button should be underneath the mouse

Many people really use it allthough an ingame script would have less limitations.

Imho it isn't a good idea to put the CPI switch under the mouse because it's less comfortable, useless ingame and I don't see any benefit, who actuates the button accidently?

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: obsolete on Thu, 02 September 2010, 18:15:41

i think everyone hits the button by mistake at some point, i did when i used a mx518.
there is no benefit to having it on top. no one uses it. you say many people, find me ONE?
zzz

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Arc'xer on Thu, 02 September 2010, 19:04:07

Quote from: obsolete;219321

i think everyone hits the button by mistake at some point, i did when i used a mx518.
there is no benefit to having it on top. no one uses it. you say many people, find me ONE?
zzz

It's better to remap the DPI buttons into additional weapon and or item slots. Plus more buttons doesn't hurts lessens the need to spider walk across the keyboard to reach some bind that is hardly used or is often can be quicker to access.

Either way it's pointless to switch DPI on the fly, makes you lose consistency. Too many people think DPI is merely a speed modifier like an accelerator on a car.

Ironically many of these same people maintain the same or almost the same sensitivity and don't use calculators to compensate for the higher DPI since it does increase the speed but at the same time read's movements are far smaller intervals thus accuracy. And not just from the higher DPI but also the reduction in master sensitivity.

As for the MX518 well considering the 518/5 used similar locations. Now a days Logitech has offset the DPI buttons to different locations like on the G500/700 near the primary button on the left hand side. But I find it hard to believe they are that easy to hit considering how small, resistive, and recessed the buttons are usually on the 518/5.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: AvengeR on Thu, 02 September 2010, 19:39:20

back on topic:

My perfect layout would be a non-multimedia dinovo edge clone. Ofc there could be some differences, for example having 6 keys above the arrows and a smaller left shift key (like some genius keyboards, which are not tenkeyless), but the idea is to remove altgr to get rid of that useless key (anyone uses it regularly?) plus being even more compact than a filco tenkeyless if done properly.

I have not tried a hhkb layout but gamers really require to have arrow keys, and we know everyone hates arrow keys being close to other keys like on laptops. Also it'd look more intuitive to use than the japanese hhkb layout (the "blessed by amaterasu" one).

If madcatz or anyone  does a decent quality kb, using that layout and with cherry brown keys then at least they'll have one certain buyer. I'd love a filco tenkeyless otaku with that layout

(http://www.snatchinformatica.com/TECL.RATONES/logitech-dinovo-edge.jpg)

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Bullveyr on Fri, 03 September 2010, 02:12:17

Quote from: obsolete;219321

i think everyone hits the button by mistake at some point, i did when i used a mx518.
there is no benefit to having it on top. no one uses it. you say many people, find me ONE?
zzz

I can't remember that I ever hit it by mistake.
I have read of enough people in various forums who use it.

Quote

Either way it's pointless to switch DPI on the fly, makes you lose consistency. Too many people think DPI is merely a speed modifier like an accelerator on a car.

If you just hit it ingame without changing other settings it is a simple speed modifier

Quote from: Arc'xer;219344

It's better to remap the DPI buttons into additional weapon and or item slots. Plus more buttons doesn't hurts lessens the need to spider walk across the keyboard to reach some bind that is hardly used or is often can be quicker to access.

Allthough it depends on some factors, the numer of usefully accessible buttons is limited and you don't want to lose control over your mouse for certain binds.

(unfortunately the CPI button on my xai isn't bindable)

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: EverythingIBM on Fri, 03 September 2010, 02:52:08

Quote from: ripster;219438

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....................

For further gaming mice discussions may I refer you to...

Show Image

(http://static.overclock.net/images/overclocking-overclock.gif)

Do they talk about these?
(http://www.usimperio.com/recycled/product_images/ibm/ibm_trackpoint.jpg)

Mmmmm.... two mice, in one.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 03 September 2010, 04:01:30

Quote from: AvengeR;219358

remove altgr to get rid of that useless key (anyone uses it regularly?)

That depends on your keymap. I write programs in C for a living, in Swedish keymap, because that is what I have become used to. Alt Gr-7 .. AltGr-0 are { [ ] } -- and are absolutely essential when writing in C. Alt Gr-2 = @. Alt Gr-4 = $, etc.

Btw, I have modded my Compaq MX-11800 PCB to have almost this layout. I'll post it in the mods section later when I have finished the case also.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: hkfosho on Fri, 03 September 2010, 04:12:46

Quote from: itlnstln;219157

I did my duty.  I was surprised to see Filco mentioned in the survey.

Why are you surprised? Is filco a bad brand? I'm kind of new to the keyboard stuff, and I was actually thinking of purchasing a filco as my first mechanical keyboard

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: woody on Fri, 03 September 2010, 05:34:16

Quote

My perfect layout would be a non-multimedia dinovo edge clone. Ofc there could be some differences, for example having 6 keys above the arrows and a smaller left shift key (like some genius keyboards, which are not tenkeyless), but the idea is to remove altgr to get rid of that useless key (anyone uses it regularly?) plus being even more compact than a filco tenkeyless if done properly.

I use diNovo Edge and it has good compact layout. The touchpad next to arrow keys with included scroll is very useful, as to mouse is tucked away and used only for games. Never use the 5 small buttons on the left side and the volume bar, though. I do need both left and right CTRL and ALTs.

In fact this is the keyboard that drove me to pursue mechanical switches again. Good overall keyboard, but one very big con - I make too many errors due to the wrong tactility of the rubber domes. Quality wired mechanical keyboard with superb layout like this and integrated pointing device close to the diNove Edge is what I wait for.

Title: MadCatz Survey For New Keyboard
Post by: itlnstln on Fri, 03 September 2010, 08:56:42

Quote from: hkfosho;219461

Why are you surprised? Is filco a bad brand? I'm kind of new to the keyboard stuff, and I was actually thinking of purchasing a filco as my first mechanical keyboard

They're just not that well-known in the US.  They must be getting bigger, though.