geekhack
geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: balanar on Sat, 22 September 2012, 03:15:06
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[UPDATE: SEE PICTURES OF PROTOTYPE HERE (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35825.msg679976#msg679976)]
Hi all, a short introduction before I get to the crux of this post:
My name is Bala aka Balanar and I discovered these forums earlier this year (8th January to be exact). To put it succinctly, I started hunting clickclacks, keycaps and keyboards then and I have not looked back.
I have observed several individuals who have tried to give back to the community along with providing new and interesting items for all of us. I've wanted to be one of these people and now I think I have the chance. I have access to acrylic and laser cutting which straight away gave me 2 ideas: and acrylic keyboard case and a nice keyboard roof.
Now, there has been so much controversy about acrylic keyboard cases that I'm going to stay out of that 'niche' for now but there hasn't been a decent keyboard roof (as far as I know) other than those from EliteKeyboards. I feel that we as keyboard connoisseurs appreciate that extra special touch in everything we do. I have worked on a basic model of the keyboard roofs and the most important thing I want to stress is that we have creative freedom over the outcome of these roofs as long we accept that certain additions/changes will cost more. I want to know what possible ideas you have and want to have done to these so that they are each unique.
The one difference I can already offer over other such roofs is that I can engrave anything you want, either words or an image that is 1" tall and not more than 20 characters wide onto your roof without any increase to the cost. I will put up a picture with an example of this soon.
Another aspect that brings up the quality on these is the fact that all edges will be Diamond Polished. While this might seem like a small issue, I have seen the difference first hand the difference is staggering compared to the original finish after laser cutting or even traditional buffing. Some pictures for comparison:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img401/5043/img3304zi.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img21/6466/img4098h.jpg)
Some renderings as a point of reference for what I have in mind:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img841/4263/20120921acrylickeyboard.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img833/4263/20120921acrylickeyboard.jpg)
Of course other forms of engraving or even cut outs in the roof can be explored but these might add additional costs.
I will be looking to offer these for the 87 keys (TKL) size keyboards. Full sized, Topre and Poker sized ones might follow depending on the response. Price is still being negotiated at the moment and it is all about the quantity we can get going.
Most importantly however, I would love to hear how much you think you would pay for such an item and what ideas you might have for the keyboard roofs. Post your budget and ideas so I can collate them and see what I can do!
I need a minimum order quantity of at least 20 to make this viable.
Man I'm a noob at interest checks:
PLEASE POST THE TYPE OF KEYBOARD YOU WOULD LIKE A ROOF FOR, HOW MANY YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PURCHASING AND THE ROUGH PRICE YOU ARE LOOKING TO PAY FOR THE ITEM WITH SHIPPING COSTS INCLUDED.
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Reserved.
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Awesome! I would be in for a TKL Filco case and a couple of HHKB ones please! Can the roof not sit on the board like the EK ones?
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Awesome! I would be in for a TKL Filco case and a couple of HHKB ones please! Can the roof not sit on the board like the EK ones?
Nice! I could definitely make it but the cost would be unnecessarily higher since I don't have the proper equipment to make the bends with so little material at the front and back. I suspect a fair number of attempts would fail due to warping or cracks. The alternative would be to have 5 rectangular pieces of acrylic and glue them together but that would be ugly imo.
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Ah ok, shipping might be hard if it is the current shape as you will need a quite a big box.
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Yup I'm figuring that out as well. Got a few ideas but still in the planning stage though.
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How tight can you bend?
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^TWSS.
Looks good so far!
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Can you also change the location of the slit for the USB? Some keyboards are not center aligned and also have wider cables.
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The tightest angle I can bend is about 45 degrees.
Changing the shape and location of the USB hole is fine but I would prefer to have a standardised/optimised location that would make it simpler when I send these for production.
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I like the idea of it NOT touching the keyboard, no chance of wear/scratches on kb body. & i'm in the market for a roof, was just thinking about grabbing a EK one but I like the sound of this.
The cable slot could maybe just be a VERY wide (2-4")? & also perhaps taller (depending on kb legs)? a big slot/rectangle?
Pricing wise obviously you know you are competing with $30 so your base model ideally shouldnt be any more than $35? idk
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Great idea, I'm interested in a keyboard cover as well. Just curious, with access to all this acrylic material, engraving, and polishing, do you work at an acrylic shop?
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me likey.
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I like the idea of it NOT touching the keyboard, no chance of wear/scratches on kb body. & i'm in the market for a roof, was just thinking about grabbing a EK one but I like the sound of this.
The cable slot could maybe just be a VERY wide (2-4")? & also perhaps taller (depending on kb legs)? a big slot/rectangle?
Pricing wise obviously you know you are competing with $30 so your base model ideally shouldnt be any more than $35? idk
Hmm would a wide/big cable hole detract from a sleeker look though? To be honest, that's the price range I'm trying to shoot for or even a tad lower. It would be fantastic if I could achieve that price after shipping but I am still looking for options to make that cheaper since the shape of the roof is awkward like longweight pointed out. Also, it would need proper packing to avoid damage during shipping.
Great idea, I'm interested in a keyboard cover as well. Just curious, with access to all this acrylic material, engraving, and polishing, do you work at an acrylic shop?
No actually I've been creating tons of pieces from acrylic, aluminum and steel for some time now as I'm crazily involved in modding computer cases and watercooling. There was always a particular shop I went back to as they were one of the few who even bothered to entertain small scale customers like me. I figured I might as well ask them about this and they have tentatively agreed. Their prices are fair and their services are top notch. For example, I only know of one other acrylic shop in Singapore that offers diamond polishing on this scale and they simply didn't reply to several of my emails.
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Another idea would be to make numerous USB slots like 3-4 evenly spread throughout the back of the cover (about .5inch high, and 1-1.5 inch wide), the USB location varies by keyboard and making it appeal to a larger audience will definitely help you reach your MOQ especially at the price you are aiming for.
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even better than a bunch of usb slots would be to just have the 'legs' be on the left and right sides rather than the top and bottom.
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At a reasonable thickness that would likely sag too much.
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Another idea would be to make numerous USB slots like 3-4 evenly spread throughout the back of the cover (about .5inch high, and 1-1.5 inch wide), the USB location varies by keyboard and making it appeal to a larger audience will definitely help you reach your MOQ especially at the price you are aiming for.
Hmm good point there. The Ducky and certain CoolerMaster keyboards have the USB in the center like Filcos but certain variants of the CM keyboards and Rosewills have them on the right (from what I can see on Google). Did I miss out any?
At a reasonable thickness that would likely sag too much.
I had precisely the same idea as you sth but unfortunately, what alaricljs mentioned is true. Still working on it though since having the 'legs' on the sides would be the simplest solution I can think of right now.
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The tightest angle I can bend is about 45 degrees.
Changing the shape and location of the USB hole is fine but I would prefer to have a standardised/optimised location that would make it simpler when I send these for production.
45 degrees can't be right!
What is the smallest bend radius that you can achieve? It would be so nice if it did sit on the board like the EK ones.
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I'm not sure how to calculate in terms of radius but basically the smallest angle I can bend without warping or having hairline cracks in the acrylic is 45 degrees. I might be misunderstanding your question though lol.
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Well a 45 degree bend doesn't give you a right angle which is what you need (or as close to).
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He must not be bending these from a flat sheet of acrylic.
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(http://i.imgur.com/CtaDu.jpg)
Which one is it?
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A) is 45
B) is 135
At least as long as you're using proper measurement and terms which is all in reference to the faces of the material.
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I just want one of those shiny blocks in the picture. :)
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I am bending these from flat sheets of acrylic. The 45 degrees I was referring to is reflected in diagram A. By that reference, you can see that 90 degrees won't be a problem.
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I just want one of those shiny blocks in the picture. :)
What in earth would you do with them? Haha
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I just want one of those shiny blocks in the picture. :)
What in earth would you do with them? Haha
I must admit, I want one too. There are a number of things to do with one.
Lictenberg figures
wrist rest / Trackball stand
Sweet LED-lit lamp
optics experimentation
etc.
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I just want one of those shiny blocks in the picture. :)
What in earth would you do with them? Haha
I must admit, I want one too. There are a number of things to do with one.
Lictenberg figures
wrist rest / Trackball stand
Sweet LED-lit lamp
optics experimentation
etc.
Hmm those options do sound interesting but I for one am not even gonna inquire because I doubt the shop is the least bit interested in selling them lol.
Also, man I'm a noob at interest checks:
PLEASE POST THE TYPE OF KEYBOARD YOU WOULD LIKE A ROOF FOR, HOW MANY YOU ARE INTERESTED IN PURCHASING AND THE ROUGH PRICE YOU ARE LOOKING TO PAY FOR THE ITEM WITH SHIPPING COSTS INCLUDED.
I'm gonna start compiling numbers so I know when/if we're ready to make this happen.
If you've already expressed interest, please do so again with the requested information thanks!
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Ok so I have been looking into the possibility of doing up something that has the legs on the left and right instead of the front and back to eliminate problems with the USB cables. This might be possible but I want to hear what people have to say about the coverage of the keyboard. Would you guys want to have a complete boxlike figure or something curved and from one piece?
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could the side legs overlap onto the back?
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Could you elaborate a bit more?
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Would love one for my Realforce 87U.
No extras required, central cutout for cable routing.
I guess price wise 30$ USD? (excluding shipping to UK)
also what about the tint of the acrylic?
..following thread.
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Would love one for my Realforce 87U.
No extras required, central cutout for cable routing.
I guess price wise 30$ USD? (excluding shipping to UK)
also what about the tint of the acrylic?
..following thread.
I currently don't have a Realforce so its hard to make one that fits nicely. I am trying to reach a price that is about or less than $30 USD after shipping. The acrylic I am planning to use is transparent so that the keyboard can be seen in all its beauty even while covered.
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Make it so that the top and bottom also have a small lip as if you were making a table and each leg had equal portion on both the top and sides. It's kind of hard to explain, ill try to draw it later.
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.
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Make it so that the top and bottom also have a small lip as if you were making a table and each leg had equal portion on both the top and sides. It's kind of hard to explain, ill try to draw it later.
Yup a drawing would be awesome!
I would be interested in one. Full size, as I don't really see myself going for TKL.
Actually, making them in different sizes wouldn't be an issue at all as long we can decide on a standard design.
In other news, I've paid out of my own pocket and am currently making a prototype. Should be done soon.
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Looks great! One question, would you be able to drill any LED sized holes into the material? Really sweet and looking forward to this.
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Looks great! One question, would you be able to drill any LED sized holes into the material? Really sweet and looking forward to this.
Shouldn't be an issue if the exact location can be determined which would take a bit of measuring.
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We just need someone to have/design the keyboard roof/blu print to get this going. =D
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We just need someone to have/design the keyboard roof/blu print to get this going. =D
Yup, like I mentioned, I have a prototype on the way already! Hopefully the pace will pick up after that. :D
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Couldn't you just have a indent made in the rear leg to fit the USB cable in? I think the roof would still look better with the legs coming from the front and back. Another thing is that I usually leave my keyboard (Majestouch 2 TKL) permanently propped up on its legs. The keyboard roof would therefore need to be inclined slightly with the rear leg more raised than the front one. I think this would be a nice touch!
I see that you are located in Singapore. Me too! Have you posted a thread on VR-zone? Local interest check would be nice. :D Price wise it'd be nice if the plain roof could cost under SGD$60. For custom designs I would be willing to pay more.
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I'd def be keen on 2 full size ones for a ducky and a Filco
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Couldn't you just have a indent made in the rear leg to fit the USB cable in? I think the roof would still look better with the legs coming from the front and back. Another thing is that I usually leave my keyboard (Majestouch 2 TKL) permanently propped up on its legs. The keyboard roof would therefore need to be inclined slightly with the rear leg more raised than the front one. I think this would be a nice touch!
I see that you are located in Singapore. Me too! Have you posted a thread on VR-zone? Local interest check would be nice. :D Price wise it'd be nice if the plain roof could cost under SGD$60. For custom designs I would be willing to pay more.
Ok I have sent for a prototype to be made with the legs being on the back and front. My solution to the whole cable problem was to cut out a slot along the back so the USB cable from any keyboard would be able to go through without problems. Also, I have increased the height on the new one slightly to compensate for people who like to leave their keyboards inclined.
I haven't placed an interest check in Singapore as I wanted to come here and get ideas on what kinda product the masses want haha. Don't worry I will start one soon and the price will most definitely be below that price unless its a really custom design.
I'd def be keen on 2 full size ones for a ducky and a Filco
Thanks for your interest! Making longer ones will not be an issue once the design is finalized. Stay tuned!
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I did not even think of the incline issue, i always have mine inclined!
Great pickup on that
Engraving is going to be a very nice touch, again something i'd be prepared to pay a little bit more for
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I did not even think of the incline issue, i always have mine inclined!
Great pickup on that
Engraving is going to be a very nice touch, again something i'd be prepared to pay a little bit more for
Yup there will definitely be engraving. I think a personal touch goes a long way haha.
On another note: I will have updates and pictures of the protoype soon! Also, stay tuned to learn why trying to design something while drunk is never a good thing!
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Ok, great news! Today I was able to collect the prototype I ordered sometime ago. Cost alot since it was only one piece. ):
Note: This is a first model and I'm still playing around with some ideas so stuff might change depending on input.
Without further ado, the pictures (excuse the cruddy quality, I only had my iphone and poor lighting):
(http://imageshack.us/a/img20/237/topviewrk.jpg)
This is a simple shot showing the view of the roof from the front. Sorry about the gigantic printing of my nick across the middle. I wanted to put it in the bottom right but placed it there in my drunken stupor when making some changes to the design. I remember that my logic for that was to better show the engraving capability. :confused:
(http://imageshack.us/a/img842/195/engravingcloseup.jpg)
A close up of the engraving. The size is a bit bigger than what I am intending for the final product. Also, the engraving can be made to be more 'white' if that is what you guys want.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img821/1304/backviews.jpg)
This is a view of the back of the case. Here you can see that I've added a 'geekhack' engraving to the roof. I am currently offering this roof only to geekhackers and I'm pretty damn proud to be part of this community so here's a chance to not only wear that pride on your sleeve but on your keyboard roof as well! :p
Of course I consulted iMav on whether it would be ok to do this and got the greenlight. ;D
Here you also see the idiocy that occurs when I try to do something like this after one too many drinks. I was thinking long and hard about how to solve the problem of different keyboard USB cable positions and came up with seemed like a brilliant idea of cutting out a slot! HOWEVER, upon receiving the roof today, I realised what an idiot I had been.
PS: If you don't realise what is wrong with that design, pm me and I'll tell you so no one else will laugh at you like my friends laughed at me.
Hint: How often do you unplug your USB cable after using your pc?
The final design will not have such a slot but instead will have the portion below the slot removed so it will sort of standing on 2 'legs'. This should solve all USB cables I think. Feel free to comment on any alternatives you might have.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img819/1511/geekhacklogo.jpg)
A close up of the geekhack engraving. I used a font that seemed very similar if not identical to the one that I remember being used for the logo some time back. The versatility of the laser can be seen from how it can cut very clean straight lines or replicate such 'wobbly' (for the lack of a better word) lettering from the font.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img513/9687/sideviewl.jpg)
Here we have a side view of the roof with what appears to be very minimal sagging. After multiple attempts at bending acrylic, this is the best that can be achieved . I honestly think it is negligible.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img96/475/backcutout.jpg)
And finally, we have another shot of my idiotic 'solution' lol.
In conclusion, I think the general fit of the roof is very good and one thing I might change is to increase the depth by 1 or 2 mm as it is a very snug fit currently and I almost feel like the Filco logo in front might scratch the roof after a few times of use.
Another aspect that will be changed is the height of the rear end as the Filco in this picture is seated flat. I will increase the height by about 5mm to accomodate Filco's that have the rear feet extended and are inclined.
Oh and one important thing:
I NEED PEOPLE WHO HAVE POKERS, HHKB, FILCO 104 KEYS, & TOPRE BOARDS TO KINDLY HELP ME TAKE ACCURATE MEASUREMENTS OF THE KEYBOARDS SO I CAN MAKE ROOFS FOR THOSE AS WELL! PM ME IF YOU THINK YOU CAN HELP!
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Looks great. Yeah the cable port... not going to work haha. ESPECIALLY for filcos where the cable is not detachable. I'll help you get measurements of a full 104 size and poker/Pure when I get back to my apartment tomorrow.
Interested in one when you're ready for production. How much did that first one cost you?
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I'd like one too, maybe...Money is in a crunch, as always. ^-^
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Looks great!!!! Interested :p
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Looks great. Yeah the cable port... not going to work haha. ESPECIALLY for filcos where the cable is not detachable. I'll help you get measurements of a full 104 size and poker/Pure when I get back to my apartment tomorrow.
Interested in one when you're ready for production. How much did that first one cost you?
Hey thanks WFD! I have one person who has sent me some measurements but it'll never hurt to double check! The first one cost me $55 since it was a single piece. ): I might just saw out the sides of the cable port and use it as mine.
I'd like one too, maybe...Money is in a crunch, as always. ^-^
Tell me about it haha. I'm trying to make this a special product that'll be worth the money.
Looks great!!!! Interested :p
Great to hear! Just finishing up with finding measurements. Brainstorming ideas for effective packaging and methods for you guys to place orders now.
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Still missing measurements for HHKB and Topre boards so if anyone has these, please chime in!
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I believe that a HHKB is the same WIDTH as a poker, don't quote me though.
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I believe that a HHKB is the same WIDTH as a poker, don't quote me though.
The HHKB is slightly smaller!
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I believe that a HHKB is the same WIDTH as a poker, don't quote me though.
Sorry just did quote you! I believe that a HHKB is the same WIDTH as a poker, don't quote me though.
The HHKB is slightly smaller!
Hmm if it's only slightly smaller I'm gonna use the measurements from the poker. Any measurements on the height of the hhkb at the front and back both when flat on the ground or inclined?
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I wish it was closed on the sides but I guess that's not possible?
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I wish it was closed on the sides but I guess that's not possible?
Possible? Yes. Worth the increase in cost over the current design, definitely not. ):
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Its fine!
I like it a lot, but I think it quite possibly needs more height? My CM Quickfire Rapid is ~4.5cm to (edit: this measurement isnt quite accurate as the ruler I used isnt measured to the very edge) the top of the esc key with the legs extended and using CHERRY/SP profile keys. So as long as it has the clearance for qfr with extended legs I am in for one.
Maybe I could just measure the legs to check for differences? I mean they're both costar but still, would be annoying to have the roof not fit with extended legs...
Can you just do away with the slot and have stubby maybe somewhat wide legs coming down in back? got bored and busted out paint for a rough sketch. Something like this? black being the roof & blue the kb:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/HeartagramBMXR/roofs.png)
Ill try to update with more accurate measurement(s) soon.
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thats a solid idea lu_e.
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Hi Lu_e, that's actually the final design for this which I think I mentioned in the update. Forgive me if I didn't or wasn't clear but yeah its pretty much settled on this design. About the height, the height at the back of the roof is going to be 45mm (4.5cm) which by my measurements on a Filco, gives enough clearance for keys on the Esc row which will be the highest. I used OEM keys which a bit taller than Cherry keys correct? Perhaps you could take some measurements again to confirm?
Thank you so much for the effort and suggestion!
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Ok. I got a REAL rule which measures to the very EDGE. & I quickly grabbed an OEM top row profile cap just for this;
looks like maybe we should aim for ~50mm if not perhaps slightly more? for wiggle room. Again this is a CMStorm QuickFire Rapid with the legs extended. OEM profile cooler master top row cap, #6 in this case. Dang I should do this with the front of the case too eh?
<3
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v254/HeartagramBMXR/IMG_3832.jpg)
edit: (i like how i randomly grabbed the '^' key... haha)
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Full size 104 Filco
Length: 438mm
Width: 138mm
height:
- front: 30mm
- legs closed, back: 39mm
- legs opened, back: 49mm
Height was measured from the table to the tallest point of the keycap (since acrylic will need to cover the caps also). Key caps were OEM profile, which is the tallest profile out of SP, cherry, and OEM. Someone please verify my measurements. I used a digital caliper for all measurements except the length.
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Thank you WhiteFireDragon for the measurements!
Ok one more update: The reason for the delay in getting an official order thread up is because I am having trouble trying to get the manufacturer to agree to a lower price considering the amount of engraving, laser cutting and bending involved. He is also reluctant to set up a system whereby I send him 10 orders at a time. If I do that, the prices will be pretty high since he will consider those as just the 10 MOQ each time. I am considering an alternative whereby I agree to pay for 50 pieces outright to get the price break (~$30 each which I feel is pretty decent considering the 'vanilla' ones at EK go for more), meaning I can get the cost down to $35 - $40 shipped and then collect orders here 10 by 10. However, I am hesitant considering the hefty payment required out of my pocket and seeing the apparently limited interest in these at the moment.
With the 'hell week' of school upon me as well, I will spend a bit of time thinking about this and probably get a proper thread up around next week.
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Update: Tue, 23 October
CMStorm Quick Fire Rapid
Length: ~357mm (tenkeyless)
Width: ~139 - 140mm
height: (legs opened)
front: ~30mm
back: ~49 - 50mm
Think we should just round up to 360mm length? a little bit wouldnt hurt for more protection from dust etc. coming in the gap from the side. So maybe try the new prototype @ 360mm long, 140mm wide, 30mm tall in front and 50mm in back? (then send it to me for testing of course :p )
& honestly I think final product doesnt necessarily even need any engraving or much. Just shiny clean would look great to me. Plenty of people have filcos and qfr's so if you buy 50 blank TKL for a 1st batch I cant see you hanging on to them forever. Would it be easier on both you and the manufacturer as well?
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WANT BUMP
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'Where he go?'
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They have been put on hold for the time being.
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...maybe?
......please?
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I have never seen this thread before, but I am definitely interested in acrylic keyboard roofs.
Maybe we could revive this thing?