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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: salmo on Tue, 25 September 2012, 22:21:20

Title: restoration question
Post by: salmo on Tue, 25 September 2012, 22:21:20: So I picked up a Dell AT101W off eBay for cheaps. I wanted to play with Alps switches and was willing to do some extra work to save some money.

I disassembled it and cleaned it throughout. Dishsoap and water for all the plastic parts.
Here's the nasty coming off the keycaps
(http://i.imgur.com/ssyuu.jpg)

The case itself cleaned up nicely and looks as good as I remember them. The keycaps, while they are clean, still are yellowed from age/sun (and the clean case makes the contrast more noticable).
(http://i.imgur.com/DhLlr.jpg)

I've been poking around at various solutions for my issue here. Most seem to be in the range of just peroxide to full-on retr0brite. Does anyone have any experience/recommendations with this? Will it not effect the legends? Is there something less harsh I should try first, other than the soap and water?

After playing with this and deciding I'm not in love with the black Alps, I'd like to trade or pass this along to someone else. But I want to try and get it in as reasonably good shape as I can first, and then pick up a new project board.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: sth on Tue, 25 September 2012, 22:24:47: retrobrite. check it and rinse the keys every 24 hrs or you risk mottling them. i have some wyse keys that I RB'd and it significantly 'pastelized' the legends into an ugly faint blue. it also depends on if the legends are lasered or pad printed or doubleshot. if they're lasered there will probably be no affect. i have never tried retrobriting pad printed. the wyse keys i tried were doubleshots.

good luck!
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Tue, 25 September 2012, 22:43:59: I have had the best results with liquid retrobrite. Basically I just leave out the xanthan and glycerine. I find the gelling agents create more hassle unless you are doing cases or other large items. I've also found that the darker beige keys need far less time than lighter keys, best to keep them separated.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: limmy on Tue, 25 September 2012, 23:10:57: I used only hydrogen peroxide without any catalyst suggested by retrobright method. It just takes longer. I left under indoor light for 2 full days and the color became pretty close to new caps. I had new caps for reference and I checked time to time to see if it was enough. Since the reaction is slow, I could check the status of the process. When you are restoring something, it is better to be safe in my opinion.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: dorkvader on Tue, 25 September 2012, 23:55:00: I had to boil some of the water out of my peroxide to get the concentration (Molarity) up, but it sitll took two weeks to Retr0brite my WYSE set. Just had to check it every few days. I used the 9.75 unit spacebar to stir, as I knew I'd not be using it.

I was just going to say that your AT101 looks like an old, used WYSE keyboard now that it's all yellow with the keycaps :p
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: pasph on Wed, 26 September 2012, 05:22:01: Have someone tried with just Oxy clean (a less hazardous substance) under an UV lamp?
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: Matt3o on Wed, 26 September 2012, 06:11:07: retr0brighted an amiga few weeks ago (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35396.msg657428). Just hydrogen peroxide and oxy. Kept under direct sun light for 6 hours. Keys are like new.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: salmo on Wed, 26 September 2012, 18:50:15: I was thinking I could get away with not using the thickening agent, and it sounds like that's the way to go. I'll probably do the peroxide and the oxy-clean, since my wife wants some oxy-clean anyway for, you know... cleaning. But I'm glad that I have a better sense of the scale of the timing on it, now.

I didn't pay a ton for the board, but I would really like to bring it back to being in great shape.

Any peroxide buying tips (for the US)? I'm guessing I'll need to go to a beauty supply store.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: SpartanD63 on Wed, 26 September 2012, 20:26:27: You can get peroxide at most places that sell first aid supplies (since it is typically used as antiseptic.) Most grocery stores should have some. The stuff I have found at the stores near me are 3% which seems to work well for cleaning most things... I haven't tried using it or a mixture on keyboards, so YMMV.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 26 September 2012, 20:49:23: I recommend to get at least 10% strength if you can. Beauty supply, or some pharmacy have it sometimes if you ask for it, not usually out on the shelf.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: salmo on Sat, 29 September 2012, 15:26:13: As an update I have my keycaps sitting in a solution of 40V peroxide from Sally's Beauty Supply (I might have felt like a criminal buying it), and a generous pinch of oxyclean. I agitated to dissolve the oxyclean and now I have it sitting in a window in a clear plastic container. Unfortunately the weather is not supposed to be particularly helpful this weekend, but I'll keep an eye on it. I separated the light keycaps from the dark in case I need to pull the dark ones first.

I'll try to post some more pics, in case anyone wants to see how it went.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 30 September 2012, 02:39:59: Having it under UV (outside, usually) just speeds the process. Mine was inside under a fluorescent lamp, and it took a while, but still whitened up.

I wish there was a beauty shop nearby, so I wouldn't have to boil off the water to concentrate the peroxide. I'm sure there's one around, but it's probably miles away.

Maybe I'll look next time I make a batch.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: jabar on Thu, 02 May 2013, 22:11:38: Gotta respond here even though the thread is ages old:

Never boil peroxide to concentrate it! It can cause a dangerous explosion. Buy more concentrated stuff instead.

Anyway, are there any before/after photos of retrobrighted doubleshots? I'm worried about bleaching the black legends.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 03 May 2013, 09:42:59: I didn't take a before, or at least can not find one if I did, but I retrobrighted this set
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/16314ccd.jpg)

The casebody shows how badly it was yellowed when I received it, which I still have not gotten around to. You can see the difference in color where the Amiga badge is missing in the upper right. Also the first pad printed caps (red A 1.25, sideprinted numpad, and the windowed caps) I have done so with, which came out unharmed.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: Tarzan on Fri, 03 May 2013, 09:54:31: Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 30 September 2012, 02:39:59
Having it under UV (outside, usually) just speeds the process. Mine was inside under a fluorescent lamp, and it took a while, but still whitened up.

I wish there was a beauty shop nearby, so I wouldn't have to boil off the water to concentrate the peroxide. I'm sure there's one around, but it's probably miles away.

Maybe I'll look next time I make a batch.

I got a gallon of 20% peroxide at Sally's Beauty Supply for about $8.95. They also carried 40%, but just in the quart size. I'm in Northern Virginia.

Don't boil peroxide, please!
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: jabar on Fri, 03 May 2013, 10:55:16: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 03 May 2013, 09:42:59
I didn't take a before, or at least can not find one if I did, but I retrobrighted this set
Show Image
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp349/lysol8086/16314ccd.jpg)

The casebody shows how badly it was yellowed when I received it, which I still have not gotten around to. You can see the difference in color where the Amiga badge is missing in then upper right. Also the first pad printed caps (red A 1.25, sideprinted numpad, and the windowed caps) I have done so with, which came out unharmed.
Looka great! I have a semi-precious G80-2100 that will need both keycaps and case retrobrighted. I plan on submerging in 30%H2O2 I have access to and was worried about bleaching the black firstshot.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Fri, 03 May 2013, 11:13:12: When using such strong peroxide, you definitely want to keep a close eye on it as it probably won't need so long before that can start happening. Also highly suggest doing the darker beige mod keys separate as they seem to get finished much quicker before they start lightening more than you would want them to be.
I used such a strong solution on the Amiga set, if I remember correctly the mods were done in about 3 hours, and the alphas maybe like 5.
Title: Re: restoration question
Post by: Matt3o on Fri, 03 May 2013, 12:20:35: More fun with retr0bright

(http://i.imgur.com/mbjIpPE.jpg)

two pretty yellowed M0110, lower retr0brighted with a strong peroxide for approx 6 hours