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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dogie on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:09:52

Title: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: dogie on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:09:52: Hello all,

I've been snooping around these forums trying to learn as much as I can without bothering you all however I think I need some input for this fundamental question.

Is it a) possible, 2) feasible and 3) economical to buy components separately and install them?

1) Keyboard 'base'
2) Cherrys, omnomnom
3) Keytops

Thanks all
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:13:41: Not really. You can buy a CM Storm QFR for ~$65 shipped. I think I paid $50 just for 110 clear switches so considering you still need key caps, PCB, and the case for $15, it would be near impossible to do.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: dogie on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:17:30: Quote from: The_Beast on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:13:41
Not really. You can buy a CM Storm QFR for ~$65 shipped. I think I paid $50 just for 110 clear switches so considering you still need key caps, PCB, and the case for $15, it would be near imposable to do.

What do you mean by the case?
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: bounce on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:20:38: where can i get that one for so cheap? that would be a great way to try out mx blues :F
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: jeroplane on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:21:36: Quote from: dogie on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:17:30
Quote from: The_Beast on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:13:41
Not really. You can buy a CM Storm QFR for ~$65 shipped. I think I paid $50 just for 110 clear switches so considering you still need key caps, PCB, and the case for $15, it would be near imposable to do.

What do you mean by the case?

He means the enclosure that everything fits in, made of either plastic or metal. The parts you would need are a case, PCB (keyboard "base"), switches, keycaps, cable. The PCB with cable attached goes inside the case, the switches are soldered onto the PCB (or a metal plate mount, which would add cost), and lastly the keycaps are fitted onto the switches.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: dogie on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:38:04: Quote from: jeroplane on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:21:36
Quote from: dogie on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:17:30
Quote from: The_Beast on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:13:41
Not really. You can buy a CM Storm QFR for ~$65 shipped. I think I paid $50 just for 110 clear switches so considering you still need key caps, PCB, and the case for $15, it would be near imposable to do.

What do you mean by the case?

He means the enclosure that everything fits in, made of either plastic or metal. The parts you would need are a case, PCB (keyboard "base"), switches, keycaps, cable. The PCB with cable attached goes inside the case, the switches are soldered onto the PCB (or a metal plate mount, which would add cost), and lastly the keycaps are fitted onto the switches.

Ah of course, forgot by PCB it really was a PCB :D

So is there no one out there offering precased PCBs switchless? I've found a lot of 'custom' keyboard sites but they're all selling the final packaged keyboard.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:42:05: Well custom PCBs are still kinda expensive. Someone guessed that the GH60 PCB would be around $70-$90 (I think that's what he said) without switches or a case.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 14 October 2012, 21:48:59: Welcome to Geekhack!

As mentioned above - no.

You would not be buying the switches or kep caps in anything like the quantity required to get the massive volume discounts the manufacturers enjoy, so just switches + key caps would cost considerably more than you could but as part of an off-the-shelf keyboard.

You could try buying various older keyboards secondhand - eBay is sometimes good for that, and mix and match the various bits.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: justin one on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:27:27: Quote
So is there no one out there offering precased PCBs switchless? I've found a lot of 'custom' keyboard sites but they're all selling the final packaged keyboard.

There is the WASD V1 Barebones, but that's more expensive than some other keyboards at $90.
http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-barebones-mechanical-keyboard.html
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:29:57: Using current almost available/available prices to build a 60% Why? Because keyboard. And I need this to know if I'll build my own mini green anyways...

pcb - $80 (averaging for phantom 60%)
switches - $40 (from bit7s DT group buys)
case - $20 (classified pure case)
caps - $40 (simple blanks from WASD)
plate - $15 (pony GB)
USB - $30 (MiMiC)

Total - $225.

So yeah...

Why did I want a keyboard with greens again?
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 15 October 2012, 02:20:52: If anyone could get custom PBC's for cheap I think all the keyboard companies would go out of business. Maybe someday... :D
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: dogie on Mon, 15 October 2012, 07:32:00: Quote from: TheQsanity on Mon, 15 October 2012, 02:20:52
If anyone could get custom PBC's for cheap I think all the keyboard companies would go out of business. Maybe someday... :D

I think we could print our own - we could all chip in for a printer and churn them out ourselves.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: dorkvader on Fri, 19 October 2012, 08:42:30: Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:29:57
Using current almost available/available prices to build a 60% Why? Because keyboard. And I need this to know if I'll build my own mini green anyways...

pcb - $80 (averaging for phantom 60%)
switches - $40 (from bit7s DT group buys)
case - $20 (classified pure case)
caps - $40 (simple blanks from WASD)
plate - $15 (pony GB)
USB - $30 (MiMiC)

Total - $225.

So yeah...

Why did I want a keyboard with greens again?
It is possible to do this cheaper:
$14.29 - Etch it yourself PCB 12*12 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuwe2fyn7eX6%252bVQtT7NeG%252bLGfNdUJrQ%252bPM%3d)
$10 - PCB etching chemicals and supplies (guess)
$0 - No plate (Use PCB Mount switches)
$40 - Switches (buy a used 11800 or broken BW on ebay or something else for cheap)
$5 - Cardboard and glue will make a case that is sturdy, and works (but ugly)
$0 - keycaps (from used/broken keyboard purchased for parts)
$16 - Teensy for USB

---
If you can get a plate made up cheaply, you can forgo the PCB and case.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: whiskerBox on Fri, 19 October 2012, 09:16:36: Absolutely not!
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Fri, 19 October 2012, 13:19:50: Quote from: dorkvader on Fri, 19 October 2012, 08:42:30
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:29:57
Using current almost available/available prices to build a 60% Why? Because keyboard. And I need this to know if I'll build my own mini green anyways...

pcb - $80 (averaging for phantom 60%)
switches - $40 (from bit7s DT group buys)
case - $20 (classified pure case)
caps - $40 (simple blanks from WASD)
plate - $15 (pony GB)
USB - $30 (MiMiC)

Total - $225.

So yeah...

Why did I want a keyboard with greens again?
It is possible to do this cheaper:
$14.29 - Etch it yourself PCB 12*12 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuwe2fyn7eX6%252bVQtT7NeG%252bLGfNdUJrQ%252bPM%3d)
$10 - PCB etching chemicals and supplies (guess)
$0 - No plate (Use PCB Mount switches)
$40 - Switches (buy a used 11800 or broken BW on ebay or something else for cheap)
$5 - Cardboard and glue will make a case that is sturdy, and works (but ugly)
$0 - keycaps (from used/broken keyboard purchased for parts)
$16 - Teensy for USB

---
If you can get a plate made up cheaply, you can forgo the PCB and case.

Difficulty level?
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 19 October 2012, 13:59:10: Quote from: dorkvader on Fri, 19 October 2012, 08:42:30
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:29:57
Using current almost available/available prices to build a 60% Why? Because keyboard. And I need this to know if I'll build my own mini green anyways...

pcb - $80 (averaging for phantom 60%)
switches - $40 (from bit7s DT group buys)
case - $20 (classified pure case)
caps - $40 (simple blanks from WASD)
plate - $15 (pony GB)
USB - $30 (MiMiC)

Total - $225.

So yeah...

Why did I want a keyboard with greens again?
It is possible to do this cheaper:
$14.29 - Etch it yourself PCB 12*12 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuwe2fyn7eX6%252bVQtT7NeG%252bLGfNdUJrQ%252bPM%3d)
$10 - PCB etching chemicals and supplies (guess)
$0 - No plate (Use PCB Mount switches)
$40 - Switches (buy a used 11800 or broken BW on ebay or something else for cheap)
$5 - Cardboard and glue will make a case that is sturdy, and works (but ugly)
$0 - keycaps (from used/broken keyboard purchased for parts)
$16 - Teensy for USB

---
If you can get a plate made up cheaply, you can forgo the PCB and case.

The_Beast is running a GB on a plate, it's like $15.

Eh, I'm making my green board a 75%er now since I found this race for auction cheap.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 19 October 2012, 14:03:21: Quote from: TheQsanity on Fri, 19 October 2012, 13:19:50
Quote from: dorkvader on Fri, 19 October 2012, 08:42:30
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:29:57
Using current almost available/available prices to build a 60% Why? Because keyboard. And I need this to know if I'll build my own mini green anyways...

pcb - $80 (averaging for phantom 60%)
switches - $40 (from bit7s DT group buys)
case - $20 (classified pure case)
caps - $40 (simple blanks from WASD)
plate - $15 (pony GB)
USB - $30 (MiMiC)

Total - $225.

So yeah...

Why did I want a keyboard with greens again?
It is possible to do this cheaper:
$14.29 - Etch it yourself PCB 12*12 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuwe2fyn7eX6%252bVQtT7NeG%252bLGfNdUJrQ%252bPM%3d)
$10 - PCB etching chemicals and supplies (guess)
$0 - No plate (Use PCB Mount switches)
$40 - Switches (buy a used 11800 or broken BW on ebay or something else for cheap)
$5 - Cardboard and glue will make a case that is sturdy, and works (but ugly)
$0 - keycaps (from used/broken keyboard purchased for parts)
$16 - Teensy for USB

---
If you can get a plate made up cheaply, you can forgo the PCB and case.

Difficulty level?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3y7d8x6JW1rrp10qo2_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Fri, 19 October 2012, 14:13:10: Quote from: The_Beast on Fri, 19 October 2012, 14:03:21
Quote from: TheQsanity on Fri, 19 October 2012, 13:19:50
Quote from: dorkvader on Fri, 19 October 2012, 08:42:30
Quote from: tjcaustin on Sun, 14 October 2012, 22:29:57
Using current almost available/available prices to build a 60% Why? Because keyboard. And I need this to know if I'll build my own mini green anyways...

pcb - $80 (averaging for phantom 60%)
switches - $40 (from bit7s DT group buys)
case - $20 (classified pure case)
caps - $40 (simple blanks from WASD)
plate - $15 (pony GB)
USB - $30 (MiMiC)

Total - $225.

So yeah...

Why did I want a keyboard with greens again?
It is possible to do this cheaper:
$14.29 - Etch it yourself PCB 12*12 (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/521/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuwe2fyn7eX6%252bVQtT7NeG%252bLGfNdUJrQ%252bPM%3d)
$10 - PCB etching chemicals and supplies (guess)
$0 - No plate (Use PCB Mount switches)
$40 - Switches (buy a used 11800 or broken BW on ebay or something else for cheap)
$5 - Cardboard and glue will make a case that is sturdy, and works (but ugly)
$0 - keycaps (from used/broken keyboard purchased for parts)
$16 - Teensy for USB

---
If you can get a plate made up cheaply, you can forgo the PCB and case.

Difficulty level?

Show Image
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3y7d8x6JW1rrp10qo2_500.jpg)

Haha, some keyboard expert should do it if it so cheap! Cute pick! haha.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 19 October 2012, 14:28:46: It's been done. Dox.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Fri, 19 October 2012, 15:00:00: Quote from: alaricljs on Fri, 19 October 2012, 14:28:46
It's been done. Dox.

Link please. :)
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 19 October 2012, 16:28:09: http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtzEsOgCAMhOGrGDeuPRGBMgkqUlPwlfTwgmH3z7cY6y-bCF4nnXVUJ61q5MC3Id6PiIJOp1tBxXCKbxeWUksQ8b90Mn6Ryh6ZmsAKhbb5GTb3AfcGLM8.

Man SMF search URLs are weeeeird.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: Findecanor on Fri, 19 October 2012, 16:57:34: The only cheap way to "build" your own keyboard would be buy an old keyboard for a bargain and rebuild it.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Fri, 19 October 2012, 19:52:07: Quote from: alaricljs on Fri, 19 October 2012, 16:28:09
http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtzEsOgCAMhOGrGDeuPRGBMgkqUlPwlfTwgmH3z7cY6y-bCF4nnXVUJ61q5MC3Id6PiIJOp1tBxXCKbxeWUksQ8b90Mn6Ryh6ZmsAKhbb5GTb3AfcGLM8.

Man SMF search URLs are weeeeird.

so its called a dox kb cool thanks
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: Lanx on Fri, 19 October 2012, 19:54:56: i done this twice, i bought 2cherry 8000k's (or something like that) disconnected all the solder joints, wire soldered it all, and put both of them in a ms ergo 4k case that i customed. in the end i got exactly what i wanted, all for less than 30bucks, just a lot of learning and work, my second build i spent more for "aesthetics" and such tho. (oh i also repurposed an old ps2 controller, from a logitech)

my build logs has the price list for both projects, i don't know where my build logs went tho, prolly in the archive diy.
*edit*
found one of them, put it in my sig and it was a g80-8200 for both, i did the usual ebay dive for em 20 to 30bucks, horrible case but nice brown switches.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 20 October 2012, 18:26:30: Read this: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36652.0

Buy it, buy 87 real MX switches (or however many), maybe some key caps, and put them all together.

Wonder what the cost would be.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: Keymonger on Sat, 20 October 2012, 20:25:23: I have a question that might fit in this thread. Cherry switches are available separate, like, for sale, from Cherry Corp. But what about Topre switches? Let's say I wanted to do a keyboard, and I would decide they would have Topre switches, could I somehow get Topre to agree to supply Topre switches for this board? Or does Topre only allow their own brand to have that stuff. I know those HHKB things have Topre switches, but the lack of any other keyboard having these switches concerns me.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: alaricljs on Sat, 20 October 2012, 21:22:58: Topre is not generally a switch, it's an entire assembly very much like a standard rubberdome board.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 20 October 2012, 21:31:21: Quote from: Keymonger on Sat, 20 October 2012, 20:25:23
I have a question that might fit in this thread. Cherry switches are available separate, like, for sale, from Cherry Corp. But what about Topre switches? Let's say I wanted to do a keyboard, and I would decide they would have Topre switches, could I somehow get Topre to agree to supply Topre switches for this board? Or does Topre only allow their own brand to have that stuff. I know those HHKB things have Topre switches, but the lack of any other keyboard having these switches concerns me.

Topre switches require a backplate. It is not a whole switch without it. At least that is what I have heard. Not sure if you can buy them thoigh.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 22 October 2012, 03:26:04: What PBCs are compatible with cherry mx switches? any of the other Cherry brands? Maybe some of the Chinese fakes?

@Lanx was the wiring of your Custom CherryMsErgo4K hard? Normally would you have to do much wiring when modding a board or a PCB?
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: Lanx on Mon, 22 October 2012, 05:24:06: wiring a board greatly depends on the controller, if you use a custom controller like a teensy and use the code provided by GH, it'll be easy, my first build i sourced a 20year old logitech ps2 controller board and it was pretty easy going. For the next one i used a g15 for the macro but this also provided an unforseen much more difficult wiring build in that it is a "gaming board" and for that WASD is optimized. What this means really is that each WASD key uses it's own pin/key/interrupt (usually strumming along print screen or scroll lock one of the very unused keys). Otherwise the physical wiring is pretty easy going, i only used the PCB as a "base" on where the keys were mounted, no "printed" in the pcb part.
Title: Re: Can you 'build your own' economically?
Post by: darksakul on Mon, 22 October 2012, 09:46:50: Lets quickly defined Economical; are we talking lets make a cheaper than market price keyboard, or a DIY project that has the most for it's dollar value?

Your options for a "economical DIY build"
1. Repair/Refurbish older keyboard(s), you have to buy a few older keyboards to salvage for parts. Sell spare parts or use on other keyboards.
2. Buy huge amounts parts in bulk (you have to start a group buy).