geekhack
geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: TheQsanity on Wed, 17 October 2012, 01:36:44
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What soldering station do you use and recommend?
I assume the best place to get one is amazon.com but what are the brands there are to look for if there are any. I am looking for a reliable one with a reasonable price.
Any help would be great,
Thanks!
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What is this for? Changing switches? You'll need something to desolder and solder. Hakko, Weller, and Aoyue are pretty good.
budget setup:
Weller WLC-100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000AS28UC&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20)
RadioShack desoldering iron (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731)
decent setup:
Hakko FX-888 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M3U0VU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004M3U0VU&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20)
Edsyn Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PDOOM2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000PDOOM2&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20)
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What is this for? Changing switches? You'll need something to desolder and solder. Hakko, Weller, and Aoyue are pretty good.
budget setup:
Weller WLC-100 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AS28UC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000AS28UC&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20)
RadioShack desoldering iron (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731)
decent setup:
Hakko FX-888 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004M3U0VU/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004M3U0VU&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20)
Edsyn Soldapullt (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PDOOM2/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B000PDOOM2&linkCode=as2&tag=keyboard08-20)
Yes, Can desoldering iron tools be used to resolder the switches as well as other parts?
Is there a minimum wattage that I should know of?
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I would not recommend trying to use a desoldering iron to solder. On that other Q, it's technically not watts that counts but how it's used. A temp controlled iron could be 200w and it wouldn't matter as long as you set your temp right. Weller WLC100 and Hakko's 808 are common choices at 40w and 65w. The Hakko is temperature controlled. The Weller has a rheostat which just sets the wattage (not the temperature).
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I would not recommend trying to use a desoldering iron to solder. On that other Q, it's technically not watts that counts but how it's used. A temp controlled iron could be 200w and it wouldn't matter as long as you set your temp right. Weller WLC100 and Hakko's 808 are common choices at 40w and 65w. The Hakko is temperature controlled. The Weller has a rheostat which just sets the wattage (not the temperature).
Hmm, good to know. So do you need a soldering tool to desolder? To my understanding a desoldering tool is an assessor to the soldering tool and just collects the solder. And should be much cheaper.
So could you use a soldering iron to desolder? It seems to be more cost effective but is it practical?
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You can use a soldering iron and a solder sucker or wick to desolder something. The only solder sucker worth money is the above mentioned/linked Edsyn Soldapullt. To do the job quickly and easily, a desoldering iron is recommended. If you're only doing a little the Radio shack version is serviceable, otherwise a willingness to part with some pretty serious cash is necessary.
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You can use a soldering iron and a solder sucker or wick to desolder something. The only solder sucker worth money is the above mentioned/linked Edsyn Soldapullt. To do the job quickly and easily, a desoldering iron is recommended. If you're only doing a little the Radio shack version is serviceable, otherwise a willingness to part with some pretty serious cash is necessary.
I notice that there are different versions of this. Is this one the most popular?
I looked it up and it says that some maintenance is necessary. Could you confirm? And if so where can I get the maintenance parts?
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Ok I'll be a little more detailed than just post links. Many mods that relate to swtiches require desoldering, do the mod, then resolder the switch back. Mods like changing switch types, springs, stems, lubrication, or stickers all require this desoldering/resoldering process unless it's a PCB mounted switch. For desoldering, you'll need either:
1) soldering iron + wick braid: cheapest option since you'll already need a soldering iron, and wick is only ~$5-$10 depending on how much you get. I have some I I've found these take a long time and a pain the arse to work with. Sometimes it doesn't get all the solder that are deep in the hole.
2) soldering iron + manual solder sucker: this could be a cheap or expensive option, depending on which one you get. The cheaper pumps that are under $10 might not have enough suction force to get all of the solder out, and build quality might be a problem. The good one I linked works well, but is not as cheap.
3) radioshack desoldering iron: I found this to be a good compromise between ease to work with and price since it integrates a manual pump with a metal tip head to heat the solder. Suction is not as great though and sometimes leaves solder in the holes that you'll have to do again. For me, my tip only lasts 2-3 keyboard of desoldering and it needs to be replaced. Tip replacement is only $2 though. DON'T USE TO SOLDER since the tip is not fine enough for the job.
4) dedicated desoldering gun: expensive, ranges from $100-$200. They work really well, but the fact that you're asking about soldering equipment means you don't solder enough to invest in something like this.
For soldering, you'll want to get something with a base station because you can control the heat/temp. A radioshack iron outputs a constant 45w, which is too hot after it fully warms up. The tip also wears out really fast (although can be replaced). If you think you'll be soldering much more in the future, then look into all-in-one reflow stations if you're willing to spend $150+. Otherwise a Weller WLC100 for $$45 is good for keyboard related jobs.
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Interesting. For $150 an all in one doesn't sound that bad. But how do you pick up the solder with one of the all in ones? Do you just leave them there?
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Some of the reflow stations include the separate desoldering gun.
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I have a butane iron that I use for car audio stuff, like alarms and the like where it's difficult to use a station. Would that not be recommended due to issues with fine tuning temp and the fragility of the components in question?
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Tj, hell no :-)
The two biggest mistakes that new people make are too much solder and too much heat.
When you're soldering wires together in a car audio setting you need that rate of heat transfer.
The size of a typical through hole pcb joint is about the size of a sesame seed. Smt joints are frequently smaller than a grain of salt.
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That's essentially what I figured, I'm used to using 12-18ga wire, not 24-30.
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Hold it 2 feet away, you'll be ok :D
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I use an x-tronic from mercantile station on Ebay. $120 ish and worth thrice that.
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This one.
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How is it? Is it more useful than your standard one?
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I love it.
At the hackerspace we have 10+ soldering irons (we won the Great Global Hackerspace Challenge last year). Mine is the one that everyone still gravitates towards.
I will admin, I rarely use the hot air for anything other than heatshrink.
For SMT, We use one of these:
http://www.target.com/p/presto-cool-touch-foldaway-griddle/-/A-10425372#prodSlot=medium_1_9&term=griddle
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Just got myself one of those cheap solder station kits from RadioShack. It's this one:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062750&numProdsPerPage=60&znt_campaign=Category_CMS&znt_source=CAT&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_content=CT2032236
Will this work well enough for switch swapping? It seems to work good enough, I already used it to desolder a bad switch on my Ducky. I am worried that in 20-watt mode it won't be hot enough, and that in 40-watt mode it might be too hot. Thoughts on this iron?
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Please tell me you spent way less than $35 on that thing. The WLC100 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350912859&sr=8-1&keywords=wlc100) is usually the cheap option for a PCB iron. Being able to dial in a temp for your work style/flow is really helpful.
That said, someone with skill and experience soldering can use a fairly wide range of power to get the job done. Lower power will take longer to heat a joint, higher power will take less time to burn a joint.
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I would consider myself to be a novice when it comes to soldering, although I think I have enough experience to be able to successfully swap out all the switches on a board.
That being said, and tips/advice from soldering experts? Things I should know?
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Find a PCB you don't mind cooking, learn how fast or slow the iron is on it's 2 settings. You want to solder or de-solder in one step. Heat cycling a PCB a bunch of times because you didn't quite get all the solder out when de-soldering is just as good at killing traces as getting the board too hot.
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Ok, thanks. I'll have to find an old PCB to mess around with then... shouldn't be too hard to find something around my basement. :))
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Just grab an alarm clock. Tis how I learned. :)
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Maybe not an alarm clock, considering my alarm clock is my phone...
Old router, maybe? Or perhaps a rubber dome board could work...
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Not much going on inside an RD.
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I'll find something... there's gotta be SOMETHING down in my basement I can mess around with...
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I would use a rubber dome since they are cheap... maybe old computer parts?
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What about some good tweezers on amazon for SMT components? Are there any good sets on amazon?
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I am this one, works very well:
http://www.mpja.com/Solder-Station-Temperature-Controlled-301A/productinfo/15140+TL/
It's a Hakko 936 clone manufactured by aoyue
You can get them all over from various places.
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What about some good tweezers on amazon for SMT components? Are there any good sets on amazon?
yes looking for tweesers for smd as well
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My college as several solder station and one super nice one with a vacuum/solder smoke sucker/shield, all the tools you could think of, a ton of snips/side cutters, solder suckers, precision screw driver sets..... but it's all the way across campus :'( but at least I can used it almost anytime
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What about some good tweezers on amazon for SMT components? Are there any good sets on amazon?
yes looking for tweesers for smd as well
I have been very pleased with these titanium tweezers I got. They are not super pointy but work well down to 0603 size at least. http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=0&y=0&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=243-1081-ND
Don't buy their loupe though, this one is pretty crappy... http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?x=0&y=0&lang=en&site=us&KeyWords=243-1021-ND
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Can someone enlighten me as to the best size solder for leds and switches? All I know is rosin core is the preferred, I think....
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Can someone enlighten me as to the best size solder for leds and switches? All I know is rosin core is the preferred, I think....
Many people swear by Multicore, or Kester. I have a roll of 0.7mm Multicore solder. You really don't need much of that to do a solder joint. I would recommend something a tad thinner. It is easier to dose the amount with thinner solder since you use a longer piece. I also got some 0.3mm solder that is great for SMD work, sometimes even that requires some care not to get too much. That one gets silly when doing larger joints, the feeding just never stops =) So somewhere in between, ~0.5mm perhaps is what I would recommend.
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In order to go with 1 solder size so I could do SMD and regular through hole I went with .020 Mouser part#
738-13283. I'm very happy with it.
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I went with .22 with 2% silver and i just got it at radioshack.
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My solder:
SN63PB37 #66/44 (0.020)
Translates to Tin 63%, Lead 37%.
0.5mm wide.
EBay for SN63PB37 and buy it on 1lbs reels.
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This one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4040-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/180672745995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a10ef520b
4040?
err or http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4000-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/120571221985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c129ad7e1
4000?
Both look quite similar. They look quite decent.
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Does anyone know if those ebay Chinese 936 clones are any good?
I would buy a Hakko FX-888 but they are like $170 here in Australia and I'm finding that difficult to justify.
I was looking at something like this for example: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ATTEN-INSTRUMENTS-60W-THERMO-CONTROL-ANTI-STATIC-SOLDERING-STATION-AT936B-/110966672073?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item19d6210ac9#ht_2625wt_1163
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You could consider Aoyue stations as well. They're really good values without a huge compromise to quality compared to hakko. I have a Aoyue rework station and can vouch for it.
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This one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4040-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/180672745995?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a10ef520b
4040?
err or http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-TRONIC-4000-HOT-AIR-REWORK-SOLDERING-IRON-STATION-/120571221985?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c129ad7e1
4000?
Both look quite similar. They look quite decent.
I don't know off the top of my head (and I'm not a home right now). If you call the guy at mercantile station (google him for #) he'll tell you the differences over the phone to help you make your choice.
He told me straight out the difference between one revision and the more expensive version was just the temperature display. The functionality was identical so I bought the cheaper of the two.
The 8080-XTS tho looks pretty sweet with a built-in 30V, 5A PSU and simple V/A meter. You can get a bench PSU for less than the delta but if you need the space on your bench...
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You could consider Aoyue stations as well. They're really good values without a huge compromise to quality compared to hakko. I have a Aoyue rework station and can vouch for it.
Thanks, they seem to be fairly hard to find here, without fairly shipping costs from overseas. But it definitely is an option if I can find it for a decent price.
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I saw a bunch of cheap Aoyue stations on ebay that had pretty decent prices compared to the other ones. I was wondering why they were so cheap.
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For keyboard enthusiast, I'd recommend:
weller wes51 (http://www.amazon.com/Weller-WES51-Analog-Soldering-Station/dp/B000BRC2XU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1352237090&sr=1-1&keywords=wes+51)
or
hakko fx-888 (http://www.amazon.com/Hakko-Soldering-Station-FX-888-65W/dp/B004M3U0VU/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1352237111&sr=1-1&keywords=hakko+fx-888)
and
chemtronics solder wick (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019V3DH6/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00) which, in my opinion, is much easier and quicker for desoldering vs the guns
I've been using higher end weller and metcal stations for almost 6 years now for work and has never let me down. I have also used a few hakko stations as well for a combined 2 years, also a great choice. But, Weller ftw :) personal preference of course.
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hakko fx-888!
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weller > hakko
<3
(http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/georgeap2/IMG_0035.jpg)
(http://i819.photobucket.com/albums/zz112/georgeap2/IMG_0034.jpg)
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Thats also multiple times more expensive than my hakko
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So guys, anyone remember this thread?
I finally got myself a station and has yet to arrive:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=181080454225
Was it a good choice? Was it better or worse than this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/120571221985?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Or these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aoyue-768-3-in-1-Digital-Hot-Air-Rework-Station-/130802894361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e7475c619
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aoyue-968-SMD-HotAir-3in1-Repairing-Rework-Station-110V-/200661676323?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb85e3123
What do you all think?
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What all are you looking to do with your iron?
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I am wanting to put together the ErgoDox.
Hopefully I don't mess up ><
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I would recommend a weller wes51 or hakko888 for that. Less than $100 for either of those irons on amazon. You don't need a hot air rework station for assembly work.
Keep in mind you'll need other things to go with your iron, ie solder, solder wick, ...
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So what I have is a little overkill?
Is X-Tronic inferior in anyway?
For example dying in a year.
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So what I have is a little overkill?
Is X-Tronic inferior in anyway?
For example dying in a year.
Maybe overkill isn't the right word... but there isn't really a need for the hot air portion. I'm a firm believer of 'you get what you pay for'. I don't doubt that the irons you were looking at could do the job, but you can get a quality entry level industrial iron that's much better and for less.
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You won't ever need hot air for keyboard related stuff.
I have a Aoyue, but a higher end model than the ones linked.
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litster also has an aoyue. he had mixed reviews of it iirc; basically, hot air good, iron bad. but, like wfd said, most keyboard work is through-hole because of the switches
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Thats also multiple times more expensive than my hakko
Bit late to this, but yeah, the Weller WX series is a lot more expensive than the Hakko 888D. Even more so considering that's the dual channel version. (Though not as expensive as the desoldering capable version.)
I ended up opting for the single channel WX only because of the promotion giving away a free extra tool with the purchase of the base unit. Helped take a little bit of the sting out of the price.
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Thats also multiple times more expensive than my hakko
Bit late to this, but yeah, the Weller WX series is a lot more expensive than the Hakko 888D. Even more so considering that's the dual channel version. (Though not as expensive as the desoldering capable version.)
I ended up opting for the single channel WX only because of the promotion giving away a free extra tool with the purchase of the base unit. Helped take a little bit of the sting out of the price.
Awesome, great iron!
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I would definitely recommend the WES51 over the WLC100. I have the older version of the WES51, the WS51. There is nothing like a properly temp-controlled iron for doing any kind of PCB work. There is less risk of cooking the board and yet tip temp recovery is way faster. I don't have the Hakko 888, but it is priced similar and works just as well from what I understand.
My WS51 also has auto-shut off, which is great for me since I am notorious for leaving the thing on.
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My setup:
1) Weller WES-51 with several tips, has served me perfectly since 2004 with regular use
2) Hakko 808 desoldering pump, can't say enough good things about this unit
3) Chinese-made SMT rework station with proper diaphragm air pump (fans in handles are silly), hot air works very well
Until last year I did everything with my WES-51 and a Soldapult/braid, including simple SMT. Best bang for your buck, imo. I can't speak for the Hakko 888 station, other than it looks too much like it belongs in a Little Tykes catalog.
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I was recommended this on another forum.
Is it decent?
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How to Desolder pump with heat,what good?
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How to Desolder pump with heat,what good?
the cheapest option of good quality industrial grade would be Hakko 808 around $180, another industrial grade pump iron with bulb would be the Weller DS 40 $100, these 2 are industrial grade and they cost a bit more money. But if you are on the lookout like I'm you'll always land on something nice and new for way cheaper. I landed on rebranded Weller DS40 AKA Wall Lenk DS 40 made in 1985 with plastic box... http://www.ebay.com/itm/251198860402?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_2366wt_1399 , accessories and assortment of 9 tips for $29 shipped, this desolder iron considering with all the extras should cost around $130....
Anyways here is the cheapest option for desoldering joint holes RadioShack!!! cheap, but works good!!!!!!!!!!! just buy extra tips, buy 5 or 10 extra tips they wear off somewhat fast, if your little pushy like me they wear off faster if not then they will last but not too long anyways, wont last not as long as the weller tips.
Here is RadioShack option:
RadioShack Iron desolder: http://www.ebay.com/itm/360667219870?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1229wt_1399
RadioShack tips for the desolder iron: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161055596335?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_1845wt_1399
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I was recommended this on another forum.
Is it decent?
And this is what?
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Just ordered this (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130830422293?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649), it's the same one that they sell on Sparkfun so I'll check in and let you guys know how it goes as they are priced pretty nicely.