geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: demik on Tue, 06 November 2012, 08:40:44
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Just reminding you guys to vote.
Please don't set this country back 50 years by electing a flip floppin liar.
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check
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It would be hard for me to imagine a greater act of treason than someone obstructing an American citizen's right to cast a vote and have it fairly counted.
Unfortunately, I am afraid that there are people who would do exactly that, and still imagine themselves to be "patriots" .....
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That is my biggest fear for today.
Being a left leaning liberal, it would hurt if my candidate lost. But I would be okay if it was fair.
But having the Romney camp invest in voting machines in swing states and having the GOP go through a ton of trouble trying to lie to voters (robocalls telling people the wrong location and wrong day/time) is ****ing scary.
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I voted early last Saturday.
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That is my biggest fear for today.
Being a left leaning liberal, it would hurt if my candidate lost. But I would be okay if it was fair.
But having the Romney camp invest in voting machines in swing states and having the GOP go through a ton of trouble trying to lie to voters (robocalls telling people the wrong location and wrong day/time) is ****ing scary.
hadn't heard about anything like this personally, but i was wondering if it would happen. people truly are insane and that man is a psychopath if ever there were one.
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That is my biggest fear for today.
Being a left leaning liberal, it would hurt if my candidate lost. But I would be okay if it was fair.
But having the Romney camp invest in voting machines in swing states and having the GOP go through a ton of trouble trying to lie to voters (robocalls telling people the wrong location and wrong day/time) is ****ing scary.
hadn't heard about anything like this personally, but i was wondering if it would happen. people truly are insane and that man is a psychopath if ever there were one.
Head on over to /r/politics on reddit.
Romney and his son have invest in voting machines in Ohio.
GOP *****ing about voter fraud when they are purposely lying to Americans. Not wanting to register democrats.
It's disgusting. And if Romney wins I hope people revolt against this broken system.
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Please don't set this country back 50 years by electing a flip floppin liar.
So, you must be advocating for a 3rd party candidate. :)
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you guys could be registered as republican and never be hasseled, i've been one for 15 years, never voted for "my" party. Plus all my friends are dems or indies, it's cool to be the only repub.
oh yea and
'Merica!
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Head on over to /r/politics on reddit.
Romney and his son have invest in voting machines in Ohio.
GOP *****ing about voter fraud when they are purposely lying to Americans. Not wanting to register democrats.
It's disgusting. And if Romney wins I hope people revolt against this broken system.
http://factcheck.org/2012/11/does-tagg-romney-own-ohio-voting-machines/ (http://factcheck.org/2012/11/does-tagg-romney-own-ohio-voting-machines/)
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Please don't set this country back 50 years by electing a flip floppin liar.
So, you must be advocating for a 3rd party candidate. :)
Ron Paul?
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Head on over to /r/politics on reddit.
Romney and his son have invest in voting machines in Ohio.
GOP *****ing about voter fraud when they are purposely lying to Americans. Not wanting to register democrats.
It's disgusting. And if Romney wins I hope people revolt against this broken system.
http://factcheck.org/2012/11/does-tagg-romney-own-ohio-voting-machines/ (http://factcheck.org/2012/11/does-tagg-romney-own-ohio-voting-machines/)
Companies owning voting machine companies investing in ANY candidate doesn't sit well with me. And shouldn't with anybody.
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The Electoral College itself is a ridiculous pre-Industrial-Revolution relic.
Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer put it very well when he said that the US Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written, but that its fabric has become threadbare and needs to be stitched up in several places.
Archaic election and voting systems are clearly one of those places, but, unfortunately, as things become more virtual and electronic, they are even more susceptible to tampering.
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metalliqaz, good man. Trust nothing you hear. With 7 billion people on the sphere, info cannot be transmitted without being colored by someone along it's path.
BTW, no one should believe any conspiracy blindly. Books, TV and movies have made society very suspicious of anything the gov't does, any celebrity and all rich people. If there were people secretly controlling the world, do you really think we would know their names? Really?
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Well, yes. Koch, Murdoch, Cheney, etc... But it's true you can't believe everything you read on the internet.
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There you go, killing all my hope. No one secretly controls everything.
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I just voted. My ballot was less a vote FOR Romney than it was AGAINST Obama. I voted for Libertarian candidates in most other races, not that I really think any of them have a chance at winning, but simply a statement of my ballot reflecting my beliefs.
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I just voted. My ballot was less a vote FOR Romney than it was AGAINST Obama. I voted for Libertarian candidates in most other races, not that I really think any of them have a chance at winning, but simply a statement of my ballot reflecting my beliefs.
Regardless who you vote for, it's good you went out.
There are other things to vote for other than who should be president.
Legalizing gay marriage, pot. Keeping/getting rid of the death penalty etc etc.
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I voted for Libertarian candidates in most other races, not that I really think any of them have a chance at winning, but simply a statement of my ballot reflecting my beliefs.
Then you stayed true to yourself, which is all we can ask.
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Guess who isn't voting today? THIS GUY!
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No man, remember? I'm voting for you!
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Lets not forget that Puerto Rico is voting to become the 51st state!
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That'd f-up our flag.
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In some existential sort of way, I have a very positive feeling towards Libertarian ideals, but the reality is that the US is so deeply locked into the 2 party system that 99.9% of the time, any vote outside the 2 parties is simply thrown away.
I would love to see a small number of additional viable political parties here, but with our society so deeply polarized yet so equally divided, there is simply no space for anything else to get a toehold.
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In some existential sort of way, I have a very positive feeling towards Libertarian ideals, but the reality is that the US is so deeply locked into the 2 party system that 99.9% of the time, any vote outside the 2 parties is simply thrown away.
I would love to see a small number of additional viable political parties here, but with our society so deeply polarized yet so equally divided, there is simply no space for anything else to get a toehold.
I was hoping that the tea partiers would turn into a new, legit, libertarian-flavored third party, but they seem content to remain a subsect of the GOP. The parliamentary model of proportional party representation in congress seems on paper like a better way to achieve political diversity than our system, though I'm sure it has its drawbacks too.
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A pro-war, anti-abortion party is, by definition, anything but Libertarian, but I would welcome any viable new party onto the scene.
Republicans and Democrats could easily split into 2 new parties each, since their internal ideologies and demographics are schizophrenic.
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I said libertarian flavored. Tea partiers are generally minimalist, small-government types. I don't think they're particularly pro-war or anti-abortion, as a group.
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Huh, and here i though the tea party were a bunch of good, hood-wearing clansmen.
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There is little that I find more infuriating than radical right-wingers who are self-righteously pro-war, anti-abortion, anti-drug, climate-change-denying, and whatever else, claiming to be "Libertarians" purely on the basis of not wanting to pay their fair share of taxes.
Every religion on this planet teaches tolerance and compassion as preeminent core values.
People with great wealth possess that wealth because the society to which they belong make it possible for them to accumulate it.
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Every religion on this planet teaches tolerance and compassion as preeminent core values.
What? That is a joke, right? Pllleeeeaaaassssseeee tell me you don't actually believe that crap.
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Did you miss the word "teaches"?
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did you miss over 6000 years of human history :P
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You are being all inclusive. So even teh fringe religions like voodoo and Catholicism teach love? The Catholics have attempted genocide for f ucks sake. Voodoo tells you to sacrifice goats so you can fall in love and do I need to say the twin towers? Yeah, they teach good Leave it to Beaver style values.
The core of Christianity is that if you believe you will go to heaven and all who don't believe will burn in hell. Sounds like love for all of mankind.
Read history. Learn about the people who invented your god.
(I warned you guys to not get me on religion)
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when did catholicism become a fringe religion? the church claims over 1 billion
served members.
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when did catholicism become a fringe religion? the church claims over 1 billion served members.
Since I said so, lol. Catholics are inherently evil and I will fight them until I can't.
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Perhaps you miss my point.
I think that the existence of a "God" is one of the most preposterous theories that the human race has ever fabricated.
However, a large percentage of people do look to "religion" as a repository of moral values.
And "voodoo" is not a religion, in my opinion.
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Are they counting every baptism? I was baptized, but I never once believed in that story, not even when I believed in Santa.
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I am of the opinion that 'when I see it, I will believe it', otherwise it's pure horses**t.
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Voodoo is a religion, it's just about as archaic as the gods of Olympus.
Religion served it's purpose, we aren't all rapists and we don't hump our mothers, so now it's time for something new to believe in.
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The way people practice religion is related to, but separable from, its teachings. You're conflating the Catholic church as a political entity with its ideals and doctrines. In addition to the sin and redemption thing, Christianity has a lot of stuff about loving and serving God and others. Turn the other cheek, love your enemies, etc. It would be unfair not to think of these as core values.
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Then color me unfair because i wont love god.
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There is little that I find more infuriating than radical right-wingers who are self-righteously pro-war, anti-abortion, anti-drug, climate-change-denying, and whatever else, claiming to be "Libertarians" purely on the basis of not wanting to pay their fair share of taxes.
I'm not sure they claim that for themselves. I claimed them to be libertarian flavored because they are for self-reliance and minimalist, low-interference government. Sounds like a libertarian position, wouldn't you say?
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Then color me unfair because i wont love god.
You don't have to love God to be fair to others' positions.
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but that's really not the rallying point of the tea party. we can hem and haw all day about how the tea party was founded on libertarian ideals but realistically that is not what it represents anymore. the voting bloc that constitutes the contemporary tea party votes in favor of religiously-influenced legislation, corporate welfare and racist, sexist, homophobic and xenophobic interests -- in many cases to their own detriment.
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Fair enough if that's the case, I haven't been following them recently.
My point was that back when they emerged in 2010, I was hoping they would form a real third party based on at least some libertarian ideals. That would make things more interesting politically in this country.
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I would tend to disagree with you as far as them making things more interesting, but I have some rather... inflammatory views of libertarianism that aren't really relevant to a keyboard forum :)
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Well we've already covered religion and politics in this thread. Don't hold back, man. ;D
edit: I am actually genuinely interested in opinions (read: not trolls) on this topic. I find myself attracted to ideas in both libertarianism and modern progressivism, which is puzzling.
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libertarianism is predicated on an often-intentional ignorance of inequality and systems of oppression that would not necessarily become moot were there mainstream support for it. it ignores real issues of socioeconomic disenfranchisement in favor of what i call the 'bootstraps' mentality.
i also don't hear of much talk of libertarianism in a non-capitalist economic sense, and since some form of government is going to exist for the foreseeable future, i'd rather it protect and serve people and populations, not contracts and companies. sorry if that comes off as slogany :P
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It comes off like change I can believe in.
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well maybe I didn't make myself clear, but i have a dim view of most of capitalism and libertarianism aligns itself almost exclusively with concepts like anarcho-capitalism (holy lol, don't get me started) and free markets.
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Voodoo is a religion...
Since when is poking things a religion? By that measure all annoying people and horny guys are Voodooians.
Uh... Oh yeah, VOTE! I think that's where I was going with this.
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Sent my absentee ballot in awhile ago.
No thank you Demopublicans. /3rd party.
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Sent my absentee ballot in awhile ago.
No thank you Demopublicans. /3rd party.
+1 here. I voted early for Gary Johnson! I just moved and unfortunately don't have voting residency in CO yet and was forced to vote in VA (I would have loved to vote for CO amendment 64!).
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lol and remember guys, a vote for obama is a vote for romney! according to your awesome poll booths lol
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Am I labeled a troll now?
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There are 2 parties in the USA today. If you cast your vote anywhere else, you are farting in the wind.
Well, occasionally not. The people who voted for Ralph Nader in Florida in 2000 put Bush Jr into the White House.
Otherwise, there is no room for anything else.
I could see a chunk of Republicans slicing off into a (true or false) Libertarian Party (maybe it would take one of each), a hard-core bible-thumping collection of arch social-conservatives, a dis-attached wealthy class concerned only with preserving their riches by any means necessary, and perhaps a remaining core of "Goldwater" Republicans that really do favor lower taxes but a massive military.
Democrats could have their own Libertarians of a "kinder and gentler" social attitude, a religious wing that took "love your brother" seriously, an amoral intellectual elite, and perhaps a European-style social welfare contingent.
But if any of these groups split off one at a time, they would be instantly squashed and made irrelevant. So we are stuck with 2 dysfunctional parties comprising wildly disparate collections of mis-matched bedfellows.
It would be amusing if it weren't so horrible.
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Am I labeled a troll now?
No. You're trying too hard.
Must let if flow from within...
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Am I labeled a troll now?
No. You're trying too hard.
Must let if flow from within...
Nice, thanks. I just take no sh1t and have generally been on a living roller coaster lately. I'm really an ok guy, wouldn't go so far as nice, but OK is fair.
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I shall go to the mountain top and be seen through the eyes of real trolls.
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Nice, thanks. I just take no sh1t and have generally been on a living roller coaster lately. I'm really an ok guy, wouldn't go so far as nice, but OK is fair.
No worries. You have a strong personality. It's not a "problem", it's a "feature".
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Since I said so, lol. Catholics are inherently evil and I will fight them until I can't.
This isn't a troll?
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No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Right?
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I shall go to the mountain top and be seen through the eyes of real trolls.
Careful there. Don't ascend too much, the pressure drops and the ego swells
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No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Right?
No that's a flame. The catholic thing was a troll. Especially if you don't actually give a F about what catholics do.
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I'm not worried. I can see someone calling me a troll because I'm opinionated and a generally "in your face" kinda guy. I am NO DIFFERENT in person, btw. Consider that.
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No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Right?
No that's a flame. The catholic thing was a troll. Especially if you don't actually give a F about what catholics do.
But I do. I'm honestly offended by religion and the very idea of a god.
I'm not trying to piss anyone off, I'm just getting pissed off myself!
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No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Not a particularly effective troll. Ridiculous overgeneralizations will get better results.
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No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Right?
Sure. But if you just add the word "driveway" to that line then someone on here already beat you to it.
What a small world.
Living up to this small corner of gh today aren't we? =P
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Ok then. No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Not a particularly effective troll. Ridiculous overgeneralizations will get better results.
But dude, I'm trying to get better, not worse. Help a brother out. I don't want to be a troll, I just don't want everyone to, well, hate me.
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No, a troll would be more like, "I f*cked your mother you ugly ***got."
Right?
Sure. But if you just add the word "driveway" to that line then someone on here already beat you to it.
I can't even figure out where to put driveway in that sentence, lol.
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If you cast your vote anywhere else, you are farting in the wind.
So is voting Republican in a solid blue state, and vice versa. Also I am not in a swing state. Me voting either way would not have mattered.
Edit: I just want to bump libertarian numbers a little. We're closing in on 5%, which would gain us federal election budget. Sure it probably still wouldn't matter in the next election, but at least it is a step breaking up the duopoly.
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Input Nirvana's favorite inflammatory for a while was to threaten to rape women family members in driveways. Then he realized what a truly abhorrent thing that is to say and stopped.
We just haven't had any real trolls around here in a while, xsphat. Maybe we're getting soft. ;)
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If you cast your vote anywhere else, you are farting in the wind.
So is voting Republican in a solid blue state, and vice versa. Also I am not in a swing state. Me voting either way would not have mattered.
We don't pick the president, but voting for the rest of the elections on the ballot is good because there your votes there have weight.
EDIT: Wow, I had no idea they were almost to 5%. That is a huge number for a third party. I wish you would have told me that yesterday ...
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Input Nirvana's favorite inflammatory for a while was to threaten to rape women family members in driveways. Then he realized what a truly abhorrent thing that is to say and stopped.
We just haven't had any real trolls around here in a while, xsphat. Maybe we're getting soft. ;)
Dude, I promise I will never threaten anyone, even if they post lego pics. I believe what I say, that is why I can't be true troll. But at time, calling me a b!tch might be fair.
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Fair enough.
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You are not labeled a troll. But don't judge the original meaning of an old text just from what you hear or just how modern people practice it. Remember the game telephone?
A lot of different religions have been revised and translated many times over. All religions have their flaws but just because of them don't disacknowledge their good.
How the religion was intended and how it is practiced or perceived(you) is always different much like telephone.
Superstitions are similar to religion in that they have been created for a reason. The perceived meaning may be different. For example: the spilling salt superstition was likely created for people to not waste salt as it was quite valuable.
Oftentimes religion states stories, meanings, and phrases in riddles or metaphors. So my may have to try to find the meaning between the words before you take it by litteral.
Once you understand, you will be less offended when somone mention s god.
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Religion, superstition and fairy tales were all created to teach people to do the right thing. Same with monsters, ghosts and even holidays (as reward for not doing whatever) but what they are today is not a thing like what they once were. Fairy tales have no balls anymore, and the religions I'm most against strive on greed without a care for the followers. It's just too tainted nowadays.
If people could drop some of the blindly dogmatic stuff (I argue with this guy at work once in a while that no, no damn arch could house every species on Earth) and bring out the morels then religion would much more tolerable.
Plus, anyone that tells me to kneel better be ready to put me on the ground with force. Just saying.
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Xsphat, as a fellow religion hater. You're cool with me.
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(http://www.lolriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Romney-Fails-Looses-the-Election.jpg)
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Religion, superstition and fairy tales were all created to teach people to do the right thing...
... Fairy tales have no balls anymore...
InB4 Struwwelpeter!
I had good parents, but I must say Heinrich Hoffmann can be credited with keeping me on the straight and narrow.
It's never to late to scare, errrr... scarr your children. Get started today, and YOU TOO can shape a little person (a.k.a Kid).
Election looking close so far. Love the news- He has the lead, no He has the lead, no wait, HE has the lead, etc.
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Xsphat, as a fellow religion hater. You're cool with me.
Thanks man, you're cool with me, too.
But I read the "things you hate" thread today and I saw your name in there quite a bit. Then I read your posts and they all sound so normal, so what's up with that? lol
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I wouldnt argue with such ignorant people as they believe in such event. They will not agree with anyone that they think disagrees with them, just as I will no longer reason with you.
:)
Next time you see your co-worker, ask him wether men are sinful and ask him who wrote the bible? Tell him men wrote the bible through the message of god but a mans hand did write the bible therefore the bible was written by the hands of a sinner.
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Funny, I have said that. I have also asked him if god stopped talking to us because if we see a burning shrub these days we put it out. Also, the next coming of Christ will be missed because if a virgin gets pregnant she goes on talk shows like Springer instead of the head of the holiness line.
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From Michigan and had to write in GJ... A wasted vote is voting for someone you don't agree with, and if a third party wins 5% this year, they get ballot access and matching public funds in 2016, here's hoping I see proportional representation before I die...
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I generally don't waste time arguing with religious people regarding their beliefs. I feel they have just as much right to believe as I have the right not to. And I leave it at that.
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I enjoy testing out my logic on them and let them trip over their faults.
And yes, THAT guy was winning last time I checked.
I would love it if a group got to 5%, then maybe this political scene could stop being so stagnant.
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i'm at a loss for memory, was the electoral college set up cuz there was a weird tie back then? or was it cuz of the threat of black ppl getting the right to vote, since they were 3/5's of a man? (being kinda serious). i mean why does it matter if a state has to be red or blue?, i mean just cuz i lean liberally why do i have to live in a blue state(which i would) as opposed to if i had to move to crazy ass arizona, for a bounty of reasons.
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I don't think you have to think the way the state you live in is colored on election night. I live my life and half the time I don't even remember the governor's name, unless it's Philip ...
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Thank god its over. I hate the ads, calls, and mail. -_-
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i'm at a loss for memory, was the electoral college set up cuz there was a weird tie back then? or was it cuz of the threat of black ppl getting the right to vote, since they were 3/5's of a man? (being kinda serious). i mean why does it matter if a state has to be red or blue?, i mean just cuz i lean liberally why do i have to live in a blue state(which i would) as opposed to if i had to move to crazy ass arizona, for a bounty of reasons.
Our government was setup with checks and balances. Like Senate to give more say to rural states vs the House for the populous states. I believe the indirect election was setup to because it wasn't efficient to do popular votes at the time. Originally the presidents were supposed to be elected by the House, but 14th amendment could be used to limit some state's votes. Electoral college adds another layer of checks and balances to separate how much power the elected House members have. Our darker skinned brothers were not in the consideration at all, since... well. They were not considered citizens, so had no right to vote.
If you want crazy. All the solidly blue states were red states. The bible belt were solidly blue. Flip flop occurred after Reagan swept the country. The reason southern states were solid Democratic haven... just remember why Unions were created. I'll leave it to your own judgment for how it is now, but Racism is well entrenched into the old DNC.
PS. Arizona rocks.
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PS. Arizona rocks.
only if you're white! otherwise harrassment "illegal alien!"
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welp obama
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only if you're white! otherwise harrassment "illegal alien!"
I am not white.
Edit: I called 273 a few month ago for Romney. Almost got it if it weren't for pesky FL and Co again. Damn swing states ;o
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Looks like the house goes to Republicans, senate to the Democrats and four more years of Obama.
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Looks like the house goes to Republicans, senate to the Democrats and four more years of Obama.
America! Frak Yeah!
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If Republicans can't win VS Obama, it shows you how out of touch with the public they are. Hardcore conservatism doesn't mesh well with today's culture.
Oh, NV and WI went blue. I guess I was off more than I thought. Not all the votes are in but we'll see ;D
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i'm at a loss for memory, was the electoral college set up cuz there was a weird tie back then? or was it cuz of the threat of black ppl getting the right to vote, since they were 3/5's of a man? (being kinda serious). i mean why does it matter if a state has to be red or blue?, i mean just cuz i lean liberally why do i have to live in a blue state(which i would) as opposed to if i had to move to crazy ass arizona, for a bounty of reasons.
I am not sure but I am pretty sure it has something to do with communication and how they counted the ballots back then. But I thibk most of us agree that this method is out of date and needs reform.
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Most of the government agencies can do with a thorough spring cleaning.
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Looks like the house goes to Republicans, senate to the Democrats and four more years of Obama.
America! Frak Yeah!
It doesn't matter who got elected the result will be the same and nothing will have gotten done. I am just glad we elected Obama and Biden just because don't have to put another name, to be known as someone else that got nothing done.
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There are few things you can always count on: more regulations and more taxes.
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can anyone enlighten me on why anyone would vote for romney
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Because Obama is an idiot.
Edit: Same type of answer for why would anyone would vote Obama. I am an equal opportunity hater.
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Because Obama is an idiot.
Edit: Same type of answer for why would anyone would vote Obama. I am an equal opportunity hater.
Haha, worst thing is when you criticize one candidate, and everyone says "but the other one is worse!"... I didn't say they weren't!
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can anyone enlighten me on why anyone would vote for romney
If you own a small business. I love driving, all the Romney signs are in front of businesses, all the Obama signs are in front of private residences (for the most part)
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No man, remember? I'm voting for you!
So hey xsphat, did ya vote form me yesterday? :))
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They didn't buy it, said only MY vote counted. Sorry.
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can anyone enlighten me on why anyone would vote for romney
If you are a Rich white religious man.
If you aren't rich or hardcore religious I dont see why youd vote republican.
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Kind of a mute point now. Maybe next time around.
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LoL, that's gotta be rip.
Those legends look pretty bright, good contrast.
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Hahaha sup Rip!
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moot * :p
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Well hey there Ripster... nice pic.
Where's the watermark???
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I don't see any pics
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Cuz he was found out! lawlz
The institution that I work for should be rather thrilled today regarding props and measures. But so far AQOTWF.
I expect pizza dammmit! My vote was bought with pepperonis you bastards!
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can anyone enlighten me on why anyone would vote for romney
If you are a Rich white religious man.
If you aren't rich or hardcore religious I dont see why youd vote republican.
Door swings both ways.
If you aren't lazy and waiting for handouts or a lazy union worker, I don't see why you'd vote democrat.
Both are trying to screw the average working Americans.
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can anyone enlighten me on why anyone would vote for romney
not all racists voted for romney
but only racists voted for romney
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Don't be an ass sth.
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Just because someone is black (or any other race) doesn't mean they aren't an idiot.
Racism works both ways, also.
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Don't be an ass sth.
I might have been a little unclear in that I don't think you needed to have voted for Obama to not be a racist, but please don't tell me Romney's policies had non-rich-white-men's best interests at heart. His stances on practically every single issue are just a big **** you to anyone who doesn't look and spend just like him.
@jdcarpe... Racism is more complicated than simple insults, and it works in exactly one way - against those that are not in positions of power. That just happens to be (and you know, for like most of western history) white men. There is no systemic oppression of white men based on their skin color.
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With the goals of the president and the way the economy is going, there won't be any "rich" people to vote republican soon.
(http://i.imgur.com/z39hH.jpg)
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only racists voted for romney ==> no non-racists voted for romney ==> everyone who voted for romney is a racist
Not the same as "Romney's policies favor rich, white people".
The latter is a defensible position. The former is being an ass.
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I might have been a little unclear in that I don't think you needed to have voted for Obama to not be a racist, but please don't tell me Romney's policies had non-rich-white-men's best interests at heart. His stances on practically every single issue are just a big **** you to anyone who doesn't look and spend just like him.
I think that is insulting to those who voted Romney on religious beliefs. I am not a religious man myself, but it is appalling to hear such insinuation.
Romney's policies benefits the rich? Sure. It is top down economics and it has worked in the past. Short term it may look like the rich are the only ones benefiting, but the rich are the ones who will create new jobs, either by spending more money or direct investment into new businesses. Calling those policies racist shows your own bias. Only white man are successful business owners? Oh? persons of color can't/aren't? You may need reflect on your own beliefs some more.
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only racists voted for romney ==> no non-racists voted for romney ==> everyone who voted for romney is a racist
Not the same as "Romney's policies favor rich, white people".
The latter is a defensible position. The former is being an ass.
Romney's policies would have favored rich white people at the expense of people of color, women, queer people and pretty much every other minority representation.
You can be a racist 'unintentionally'. Voting for Romney for reasons not related to his social and economic policies... well I won't get into that, but you have to take the 'good' with the bad, and at the end of the day the guy is effectively as racist as is necessary. Which is at all, and in any sense whatsoever. If you chose for the man, then you either explicitly or implicitly accept his racism and give him power to exercise that racism. How is that not racist?
Like I said it's not about name calling or hurting peoples' feelings. It's about the quantifiable systemic affects of racist policies and institutions.
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The problems of the Planet Earth and the Human Race are bad enough without having overpopulation and inequality to exacerbate them exponentially.
I am a descendent of Indian-killing slave-owners, but that does not mean that I have to continue what was, to them, the "normal" situation of the world that they lived in.
If a society is the equivalent of a living organism, are the rich the parasites, or are the poor the parasites? Or both?
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It is top down economics and it has worked in the past.
I'm really tempted to post a picture of willy wonka but I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
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Disclaimer first: I am not upset or insulted. I in fact voted for Barack. But you are being an ass.
Declaring anyone to be a racist who is in any way complicit with anything that you perceive as racist is not only silly, it is useless. Surely everyone is a racist by that definition?
I'll even give you that definition, and say that everyone who voted for Mitt is complicit however tangentially with racism. Calling them racists in a public forum among people who do not share your esoteric view of racism is _still_ a **** move.
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Just wanted to say hello.
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I don't really care about hurting the feelings of racists, so if that is a **** move, then I am an ass that makes **** moves. Or was that 'makes ****s move'? I can't remember. I do have a nice butt.
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You're conflating being right with being an ass. You can do one without being the other.
Talking about Romney's racist policies is (arguably) right. Calling literally all his supporters racists is being an ass.
My original response stands. Don't be an ass.
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It's ok, the kettle really is blacker. Oh is that racist?
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I try to be a nice person to everybody. I give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. But if you do something that overtly supports the perpetuation of racism then the gloves are off and I will be an ass. It's the least I can do. Marginalizing racists is not the same as marginalizing people based on race. I would rather come across as an ass to people who support racism (is that better than calling them racists? because I really don't see a worthwhile difference) than play nice with people who want to support racists.
If I offended anyone with my views, that's your right to be offended, but don't conflate personal offense with institutional racism. One is a much bigger deal. I have no patience for apologists anymore.
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Don't vote GOP to vote for DNC which has a long history with racism and Unions (which was also created due to racism). Not sure what you're trying to accomplish.
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I am not a Democrat. I do not support the Democratic Party of the United States.
Do you need me to clear up anything else regarding my personal beliefs?
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Would you say religion is a minority group, just as homosexuals or those of a non-white race?
So, then, being that you call those who vote for Romney, who is "against minorities groups," supporting racism, wouldn't you say that anyone who voted for Obama (or anyone else not republican) is, in fact, guilty of the same thing being they don't vote for the party that is inherently favorable in regard to religion?
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You're conflating being right with being an ass. You can do one without being the other.
Talking about Romney's racist policies is (arguably) right. Calling literally all his supporters racists is being an ass.
My original response stands. Don't be an ass.
well it's safe to say the conservative right wing (the fox crowd) tends to lean on the racist side.
you can hear it in people's tones when they speak of Obama. If a white man was running for president the tone in their voices would have been completely different.
plus you have this whole birthers bull**** and that whole muslim deal.
i hate to pull the race card but it truly is disgusting what racism that has come out since Obama taking office in '08.
i can't wait for the first atheist president. so they can TRULY separate church and state and go after these ****ing churches supporting candidates (whether left right or middle)
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Would you say religion is a minority group, just as homosexuals or those of a non-white race?
Depends on a lot of factors. What religion? In what location are these hypothetical adherants? Is there a hypothetical history of hypothetical oppression against this hypothetical population?
Can you define your variables?
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[attachimg=1]
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I would argue the sole fact that there are such a large number of religions makes them all minorities. Location is irrelevant. And since when did oppression have anything to do with the definition of minority?
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I would argue the sole fact that there are such a large number of religions makes them all minorities. Location is irrelevant. And since when did oppression have anything to do with the definition of minority?
I am not talking minorities in numbers per se, I'm talking about visibility, representation and the dynamics of power between disparate groups. Location is entirely relevant.
The point is, this hypothetical discussion is not really helpful. We can and should discuss real problems. God knows we have enough of those without introducing hypotheticals.
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The groups you refer to have more visibility and representation than those who don't fall into said groups solely because they are part of them. In a sense, making them more visible and providing them more representation because of
actors factors that should be irrelevant could be viewed as more detrimental to them than helpful. More often than not, it serves to keep the past alive instead of truly allowing for change and moving forward.
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Overwhelmingly so in the contexts in which their differences from 'non-minorities' are highlighted.
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When Obama said we need to fix the way elections are held during his victory speech it brought joy to my heart. Here in Michigan the polls open on Tuesday at 8AM and close at 8PM. I nearly wasn't able to vote because I leave for school at 6AM and then at 10AM go straight to work until 7PM. Getting an absentee ballot in this state is way too time consuming as well. There's no reason to have the polls open for 12 hours on a single day unless you don't want everyone to be able to vote. I really hope we pass some sort of early voting initiative like many other states have.
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I'm going to take my leave. I tried for four pages to stay out of here because I knew that my views are mine and everyone elses' are their own, and arguing here would be solely for the sake of arguing, and I failed miserably at that... :-X
Back to the keyboards!
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we are discussing important things calmly and rationally! you didn't fail at anything :)
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Their own candidate won, and still they cry "racism." When can you guys realize that YOU are the ones seeing race/color as a factor in this game, not we supposed "racists."
And anyone who says, "I hate to pull the race card..." tacitly LOVES to pull the race card.
Personally, I have exactly ZERO faith in the American political system. I am under no illusion that Romney would be any better or worse for the country than Obama, only different than the status quo.
"A little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing." -Thomas Jefferson
For anyone who cares, I consider myself a SLIGHTLY conservative libertarian. I hate all the populist-centrist crap both parties spout. Someone should have the balls one day to take a stand for what they actually believe, and be elected on that basis, rather than whatever they can say to court hispanics or white women, or whatever...
Love you guys. :D
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Someone should have the balls one day to take a stand for what they actually believe, and be elected on that basis
I agree! However, hispanics and white women are people too so this 'candidate' should probably say and think some things with their interests at heart if they want to be taken seriously by those people :P
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(Attachment Link)
It is absolutely unnecessary to bring Taco Bell into this! HOW DARE YOU SIR!
:)) and how it flows. like lava. stinky stinky lava.
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(Attachment Link)
It is absolutely unnecessary to bring Taco Bell into this! HOW DARE YOU SIR!
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TIME WIZARD!!
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It's like you read my mind man. Whoa!
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The solution to all of your problems is here! The solution lies at the point where any of you believed what a came out of a politician's mouth.
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I voted absentee long before yesterday. I thought Romney was more likable in his concession speech than I can remember. With the nature of his party and the primary competition he had moved far to the right over his previous positions and flip flopped so much it wasn't clear what he would really be like in office. He was a good soldier for the Republican part but I bet he and his wife are glad it's over, althought I'm sure it hurts like hell to lose, especially as they seemed to really think it was going to be different. In the end the electorial map looked almost identical to the last election although Romney did pick up a couple. Florida, of course, is off in it's own twilight zone, thank goodness the election didn't come down to Florida or it would be 2000 all over again. As the % of white vote continues to diminish, the Republicans might have some hard times ahead if they can't change with the times as minorities haven't been their strong suite, with the exception of George W to a degree with hispanic voters. 88% of Romney votes were reported to be cast by white voters vs 56% for Obama. I was surprised how many presidential candidates were on the ballot besides Obama and Romney. Most of them I'd never heard of. Rosanne Barr was there, would have been a good protest vote, hah.
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Well said, Texas. It just shows how out of touch the GOP is with the times, and people.
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I voted absentee long before yesterday. I thought Romney was more likable in his concession speech than I can remember.
I noticed this too. He seemed like a real person.
Also Roseanne Barr is a certified badass.
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The point is, this hypothetical discussion is not really helpful. We can and should discuss real problems. God knows we have enough of those without introducing hypotheticals.
Nor is the racist witch hunt, but I agree with the point.
Now with republican majority in House, we'll just get more of nothing gets done and crap snuck into bills. Our political system is broken, and I definitely agree that a little rebellion wouldn't hurt ;)
*I had more here about what Obama is going to do about the current issues. But since nothing would get done, I just deleted them. **** ain't happening. I am not in the doom and gloom crowd, but it sure doesn't look like a bright 4 years incoming.
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Oh I just saw this thread. Is it too late to vote? :D
O wait, wrong tone for this thread..
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Racist witches O_O
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TIME WIZARD!!
for the record, this is absolutely the most bizarre behavior we've ever seen out of SMF thus far. i'm completely boggled by it.
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That or CC deleted his post and reposted it?
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Racist witches O_O
Grab your pitch forks.
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i can't risk being turned into a newt. i might have to become the speaker of the house if that happens and i really just don't have time for that.
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I lolled. 10 internets for you.
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I try to be a nice person to everybody. I give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. But if you do something that overtly supports the perpetuation of racism then the gloves are off and I will be an ass. It's the least I can do. Marginalizing racists is not the same as marginalizing people based on race. I would rather come across as an ass to people who support racism (is that better than calling them racists? because I really don't see a worthwhile difference) than play nice with people who want to support racists.
If I offended anyone with my views, that's your right to be offended, but don't conflate personal offense with institutional racism. One is a much bigger deal. I have no patience for apologists anymore.
Nobody conflated those two things. I'm not offended, but I do think you're wrong both in substance and in being a jerk about your opinion.
Calling literally everyone who supports Romney a racist is meaningless apart from its rhetorical shock value. It can't be anything other than vitriolic hyperbole or an overly simplistic view of the world. What about people who voted for Romney because they disliked the president's policies, or because they believed he would be better at economic policy than the president? Calling them racists is worse than useless -- it dilutes the meaning of the word. It also paints them in simple, black/white terms, and ends up classifying them, as a group, as "the enemy". That is the same sin that at the root of racism itself.
The worst blanket statement you should make about Romney supporters is that they are complicit with Romney's racist policies. That is _very_ different than calling them racists. Even calling Romney a racist is not fair since you don't know him personally. I understand that you define racism by result rather than intention, but most people don't understand it that way. I've already explained why I think it's incoherent and harmful.
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I think that is insulting to those who voted Romney on religious beliefs. I am not a religious man myself, but it is appalling to hear such insinuation.
Romney's policies benefits the rich? Sure. It is top down economics and it has worked in the past. Short term it may look like the rich are the only ones benefiting, but the rich are the ones who will create new jobs, either by spending more money or direct investment into new businesses. Calling those policies racist shows your own bias. Only white man are successful business owners? Oh? persons of color can't/aren't? You may need reflect on your own beliefs some more.
Romney does seem to be a very religious man capable of giving substantially of his money and time to others.
On the other hand, he also co-founded Ban capital which "harvests" (his words captured on video) companies at the expense of many workers and one might argue the country in a more general sense for great personal profit. Well to be fair He and Bain don't just do it in the USA. In 2000, they also acquired a phone company from the Italian government which they flipped for $1 billion dollars profit and avoided paying taxes to Italy leaving Italian taxpayers holding the bag.
As he debated Obama and talked about how he would take on China and how terrible it was that USA manufacturing jobs were moving to China, Bain was in the process of moving a company reporting record profits (Sensata From Freeport, Il) to China into a shiny new facility built for Bain by the Chinese Government. All the USA workers were fired after training their Chinese replacements. It is our government that pays unemployment to these workers, loss of tax revenue, and substantial retraining costs. While Bain gets tax breaks for this move and a free new building couresty of China and extremely cheap labor. And these products go into automotive, appliance, aircraft, industrial and HVAC products sold to you and I. Let's hope for the best.
Now I know Romney isn't with Bain any more. But he did create the beast and he has $8 million or more invested in this particular deal and stands to profit substantially as he has done many times in the past. And don't say blind trust cause his personal attorney has oversight so it's not really blind, nearsighted at best.
As for top down economics, I sort of thought that debate was over but I can be naive at times. When a middle class family gets at tax cut it tends to go back into the economy. At least some %, and I cynically suspect a high %, of those 1%ers tax breaks don't trickle down to anyone in the USA because they end up parked in offshore tax shelters - you know like everyone suspects is the case with Ronmey but don't really know since he never released the bulk of his tax returns. The 1% folks survived Clinton taxing them a bit more and the budget was balanced, seems unlikely it will kill them now.
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@hashbaz
I, too, understand but disagree with your view. Guess we gotta fight now.
The whole point of representative democracy is to choose politicians that represent your views.
With a two-party system, there's no way to have 100% accurate representation, but Romney was clearly a candidate with a platform founded in the perpetuation of institutional racism.
The definition I use for racism is not an uncommon one.
I still don't see why there needs to be a distinction between 'supporter/proponent of racism' and 'racist' though. If you believe that I was a jerk about it, compare the harmful effects of pointing out that somebody is a racist to the actual effects of racism. It's not on the same level at all, and that difference is precisely the reason that I have no sympathy for supporters of racism.
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That or CC deleted his post and reposted it?
i blame alaric
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@hashbaz
I, too, understand but disagree with your view. Guess we gotta fight now.
(http://i.qkme.me/3p3igz.jpg)
...Romney was clearly a candidate with a platform founded in the perpetuation of institutional racism.
That is a really strong statement. Care to explain?
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I mean... pick a republican policy and I will let you know what I think of it?
Typical positions include the war on drugs (massively applied to people of color compared to whites) and immigration (that's too easy). We can expand on racism to include other forms of bigotry (reproductive rights, gay marriage, trickle-down economics [blatantly classist at the expense of those without economic power]).
can't argue with Dolph though.
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Let's go with immigration policy. What about Mitt's position is racist?
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Let's go with immigration policy. What about Mitt's position is racist?
It begins with his fantasy religion Mormon, I will admit all I learned about Momonism I learned by watching south park, which as we all know is entirely humorly true. Plus I'm surrounded by Mormons and Amish all day, i live right in the middle of Lancaster, PA, i mean my credit union is Mormon! they made an exception to let me open an account.
I deal with Mormons on a daily basis, is that an issue? nope never met a bad one, I just loathe this religion vs. ALL others, yea i'm an atheist, but i just came from a honeymoon trip from Italy and even visited the vatican!, so i get a pass.
But i hate Mormonism, it is Mormonism that has taken the Boy Scouts of American, and made it such a super anti-gay organization, like the BBB, (even though it sounds all government like) it is a private club/company, that was open to whatever until the Mormons came in. They looked at the BSA and instilled those Mormon values into the organization, which pisses me off, now if i have a boy, i can't take him to the BSA, cuz of those whacky Mormon beliefs. At least the Girl scouts is un-tainted (bad pun, i didn't mean it!) so if i have a girl she can go there.
Maybe in 10 years, there will be Computer Scouts of America.
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the continued demonization of 'illegal' immigrants compared to legal immigrants when you consider how hard it is to become a legal citizen (sometimes up to ten years) means that people (very often of color) from poorer countries have a markedly harder time making it into this country to become contributors to the economy and society.
Also the guy wanted to take a constitutional right (citizenship by birthright) and enforce military service to obtain citizenship. This disproportionately affects poorer immigrants who don't have a means of deferring military service by standard accepted reasons (being a student, having a family or a full time job).
i know that one could argue that just because the majority of victims of such policies HAPPEN to be people of color or poor or what have you, that doesn't make the policy itself racist. But I think that's a really limited view of what racism is and how it actually affects people in this country. in pretty much every science of repetition, patterns are looked for and meaning extrapolated from patterns. when it comes to racism, people want to pass that off as the tired old 'correlation not causation' as if the two are mutually exclusive.
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Let's go with immigration policy. What about Mitt's position is racist?
It begins with his fantasy religion Mormon, I will admit all I learned about Momonism I learned by watching south park, which as we all know is entirely humorly true. Plus I'm surrounded by Mormons and Amish all day, i live right in the middle of Lancaster, PA, i mean my credit union is Mormon! they made an exception to let me open an account.
I deal with Mormons on a daily basis, is that an issue? nope never met a bad one, I just loathe this religion vs. ALL others, yea i'm an atheist, but i just came from a honeymoon trip from Italy and even visited the vatican!, so i get a pass.
But i hate Mormonism, it is Mormonism that has taken the Boy Scouts of American, and made it such a super anti-gay organization, like the BBB, (even though it sounds all government like) it is a private club/company, that was open to whatever until the Mormons came in. They looked at the BSA and instilled those Mormon values into the organization, which pisses me off, now if i have a boy, i can't take him to the BSA, cuz of those whacky Mormon beliefs. At least the Girl scouts is un-tainted (bad pun, i didn't mean it!) so if i have a girl she can go there.
Maybe in 10 years, there will be Computer Scouts of America.
lolwut?
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i'll just leave this here.
http://whitepeoplemourningromney.tumblr.com/
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Let's go with immigration policy. What about Mitt's position is racist?
It begins with his fantasy religion Mormon, I will admit all I learned about Momonism I learned by watching south park, which as we all know is entirely humorly true. Plus I'm surrounded by Mormons and Amish all day, i live right in the middle of Lancaster, PA, i mean my credit union is Mormon! they made an exception to let me open an account.
I deal with Mormons on a daily basis, is that an issue? nope never met a bad one, I just loathe this religion vs. ALL others, yea i'm an atheist, but i just came from a honeymoon trip from Italy and even visited the vatican!, so i get a pass.
But i hate Mormonism, it is Mormonism that has taken the Boy Scouts of American, and made it such a super anti-gay organization, like the BBB, (even though it sounds all government like) it is a private club/company, that was open to whatever until the Mormons came in. They looked at the BSA and instilled those Mormon values into the organization, which pisses me off, now if i have a boy, i can't take him to the BSA, cuz of those whacky Mormon beliefs. At least the Girl scouts is un-tainted (bad pun, i didn't mean it!) so if i have a girl she can go there.
Maybe in 10 years, there will be Computer Scouts of America.
lolwut?
isn't this how they debate politics, with a de-rail?
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The party of Lincoln has shown quite a bit of racism around the fringes recently but I didn't really notice it on Romney. There is a lot of Obama crazy hate out there and racist comments have bubbled up a number of times recently. If you haven't noticed just google it, it's not hard to find.
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can anyone enlighten me on why anyone would vote for romney
not all racists voted for romney
but only racists voted for romney
only racists voted for romney ==> no non-racists voted for romney ==> everyone who voted for romney is a racist
Not the same as "Romney's policies favor rich, white people".
The latter is a defensible position. The former is being an ass.
Romney's policies would have favored rich white people at the expense of people of color, women, queer people and pretty much every other minority representation.
You can be a racist 'unintentionally'. Voting for Romney for reasons not related to his social and economic policies... well I won't get into that, but you have to take the 'good' with the bad, and at the end of the day the guy is effectively as racist as is necessary. Which is at all, and in any sense whatsoever. If you chose for the man, then you either explicitly or implicitly accept his racism and give him power to exercise that racism. How is that not racist?
Like I said it's not about name calling or hurting peoples' feelings. It's about the quantifiable systemic affects of racist policies and institutions.
lol great spaz logic.
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You really think Romney cares more about non-rich white folks than any other color? He's about the very upper income folk of any color. Now that is likely more white folk than not. But it's their green not the color of their skin. Most of us only exist for him to "harvest". So if he's racist it's for the color green, not white.