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geekhack Marketplace => Interest Checks => Topic started by: asura on Thu, 15 November 2012, 17:41:31

Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 15 November 2012, 17:41:31: As a brief introduction; I’m a product of the times, I graduated with a Masters degree in Architecture in Scotland a few weeks before this headline (http://archiseek.com/2009/one-third-of-architects-laid-off-in-last-year-survey-finds/#.UKVsmYdtbKc) add to this an unwillingness to move out of my immediate area for work and I'm suddenly pretty much unemployable in my area of study. So I fall back on my weekend/summer job – only unlike so many of my cohort this isn’t bar work, or waiting tables. I make jewellery, I always hesitate to call myself a jeweller as I have no formal training, but I've been doing it on and off for about eighteen years so I'm fairly competent in what I'm doing. My elder brother is a computer scientist, my younger a lecturer in electronic engineering who recently introduced me to his Unicomp (and now I own a KBT Pure with blue switches) so I've grown up with computers and stuff around me my whole life.

So I’m an artisan jeweller, who spent a lot of time on computers and is a bit of a geek… The outcome was, lets face it, inevitable.

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7672touchedup.jpg) (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7678.jpg) (http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7691cropped.jpg)

Apologies for the poor photography, something I never really learned, love me some bokeh though. This is my prototype silver key cap, which is as we type winging it’s way to mkawa to be auctioned off as a donation to GH. I'm sure he’ll take some better pictures and then I'll ~~steal~~ borrow them!

I'm going to make another for myself (this time in Cherry profile rather than OEM) and a few people on bit-tech have raised interest, so I thought I’d post here to see if anyone was interested.

------------------------ 29/11/12 ------------------------

So in a fit of madness I've decided to do all five major cap types simultaneously - I had planned to do them all, but there was going to be much staggering involved. However, I decided that would be too much trouble to keep track of which was happening when, who's turn it was next, which profile's I'd done for which switch... So instead of just the two cap types, there's also going to be Alps (cheep ebay board on it's way to me) BucklingSpring (to be borrowed from my brother) and Topre (kindly loaned by longweight)

What this does is push the time scale back a bit... it's not as bad as it first appears as I work some extra hours in December anyway, but it'll still most likely be mid/late January that the final products will ship, assuming I don't wear my finger tips down to the bone polishing them all up... need to get me an army of gnomes!

------------------------ 14/12/12 ------------------------

Other finishes.

Brushed
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7750.jpg)

Beed blasted
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7778.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:02:49: i just want to confirm that i do indeed have the sample from asura and it is, how to say... beautiful. my light tent is neither at the moment, so i will have to wait until tomorrow for pictures.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:04:18: Sweeeeeet!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:08:53: Smoooooooooth (with a capital SMOO)!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tjcaustin on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:16:02: Oh mans.

Make more plzkthx.

Hopefully this auction is sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:16:17: Depending one price, I'd for sure be in for one.

You might want to think about 1.25 or 1.5 mods too ^___^
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: yuiop on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:20:37: Looks beautiful. Want one!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: balanar on Thu, 15 November 2012, 19:51:15: Beautiful is right. Would the surface change in any way over time with use though?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: metalliqaz on Thu, 15 November 2012, 20:07:25: It will tarnish. You have to silver polish
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: SmallFry on Thu, 15 November 2012, 20:12:33: Unless its sealed. Not sure how to seal silver though.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 15 November 2012, 20:13:02: In.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: zzAaron on Fri, 16 November 2012, 00:44:08: shinyyy :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 16 November 2012, 00:54:08: Quote from: zzAaron on Fri, 16 November 2012, 00:44:08
shinyyy :)

Very :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: DanGWanG on Fri, 16 November 2012, 01:02:30: Infosho
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 16 November 2012, 01:07:10: Im in, I want one for my KMAC!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: rowdy on Fri, 16 November 2012, 05:29:46: Hey asura, is that the key cap from your first ever post? Where you showed it being made?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tipo33 on Fri, 16 November 2012, 07:47:13: YES! definetly in.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: singaporean123 on Fri, 16 November 2012, 08:20:33: oh yeah im in
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Batmann on Fri, 16 November 2012, 08:32:52: I'm afraid this is something that can screw my sense of the value of money...!
very much interested :)
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: whiskerBox on Fri, 16 November 2012, 08:38:08: How much does it weigh? Looks great!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Alessandro on Fri, 16 November 2012, 10:31:43: Still very much in!

Edit: Cherry profile please. :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Fri, 16 November 2012, 10:53:45: You have my vote!

And make a full 24K gold cap, if its too soft then maybe try 18K :)

For the truly rich!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Fri, 16 November 2012, 12:31:30: The_Beast - I'm afraid I don't have a definite price yet, and wont until I do a sample casting but it won't be nuts. I do plan on doing other profiles and widths, I just thought this was a sensible place to start, the short shift for Pures for example is on my "list"... and when I see someone with a full 104 board decked out in silver, I'll know my work here is done :eek:

balanar - metalliqaz is right, over time the copper in the alloy (the 7.5% that isn't Ag) will oxidise, this can be easily cleaned by wiping with a polishing cloth a bit of which I intend to include with every package... you didn't chuck yours out did you mkawa?!?

DanGWanG - Pardon?

rowdy - Yup, post number one, cap number one, since then it's been down to Edinburgh, picked up a hallmark, and been re-coloured (polished) prior to sending it out to mkawa. There was a lot of stuff going on that wasn't pictured but you got enough to get the gist of the process. This time I've been much more accurate in my marking out so the base should be closer to the 17.70mm square that it's supposed to be, and all the other dimensions should be within 0.1mm, preferably closer, but we'll see.

whiskerBox - The prototype weighs in at a svelte 6.15g, I'm not sure what the production model will be until I make one. They'll be Cherry profile, so shorter, but I'm putting the large top radius in which is lacking in the prototype, so it needs a bit of shoring up at the back... Long story short, it'll probably be about the same... within a whisker ;)

Shadovved - A 24ct gold cap would double the weight and be around thirty five times the cost! In all honesty I think the switch would go through its twenty million cycles before you wore through the cap but I'm not sure... shall I put you down for one and you can let us all know in a couple of decades?

And thanks everyone else for your appreciation.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 16 November 2012, 12:32:30: Any kind of guesstimate?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: danielucf on Fri, 16 November 2012, 19:34:59: Looks pretty sweet, I'm interested depending on price.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Halverson on Fri, 16 November 2012, 19:48:26: In for one, if it's not too highly priced. Would be sweet as something other than top row profile, such as a 1.25 mod :)

Profile? Either or, but probably OEM for the height!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: MMB on Fri, 16 November 2012, 21:11:21: man... how did I miss this....

I am in for one :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: thebeargentile on Fri, 16 November 2012, 21:17:53: Definitely interested!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: DanGWanG on Fri, 16 November 2012, 23:40:52: In for sure :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Sat, 17 November 2012, 00:48:37: Then by my preliminary calculations.... That gold cap, assuming you use the full amount at market price, would cost a bomb, or several bombs........ tell me how much will it cost, will you? :D

LOL sounds like a good investment, one keycap which really retains its value hahahahaha!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:13:33: Don't know, haven't even started to guess. It's just that the last time I seriously looked at metal prices, gold was about 35 times the price of silver at bullion so I posted in a knee jerk reaction, never a good thing... a quick check tells me that the difference is now somewhere closer to 53 times - which is actually a good thing! Silver's crawling down.

The_Beast - I'm a bit apprehensive about quoting in advance as this (http://silverprice.org/charts/history/silver_20_year_o_usd.png) is what silver has been doing in the time I've been working with it... and at the moment we're still getting fairly large swings, it isn't unimaginable that it could spike again and go even higher... At a guess, that I refuse to call a quote, somewhere in the region of £30?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:19:26: You said the other ones would be cherry height right? All my caps are oem in various metals could you still make a oem one?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: longweight on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:30:47: Quote from: Shadovved on Sat, 17 November 2012, 00:48:37
Then by my preliminary calculations.... That gold cap, assuming you use the full amount at market price, would cost a bomb, or several bombs........ tell me how much will it cost, will you? :D

LOL sounds like a good investment, one keycap which really retains its value hahahahaha!

I bet that clacks have a better return if you pick one up in a sale!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:43:04: Well, but I might just take the jump on that bling keycap :)

Mind PMing me on the details, asura? I am considering it LOL.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:46:45: Quote from: TheProfosist on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:19:26
You said the other ones would be cherry height right? All my caps are oem in various metals could you still make a oem one?

Yes! I knew I was forgetting something! Everyone, go back and edit your posts as to wether you want Cherry or OEM (are there several different OEM's, 'cause that'd be a *****!) I'll be using a KBT Pure cap as a template unless there's any real preference? And I'll update the OP.

Quote from: longweight on Sat, 17 November 2012, 03:30:47
I bet that clacks have a better return if you pick one up in a sale!

In the short term, undoubtedly, part of the joy of gold is it's relative stability the "cost" of gold increased about five fold over the last seven years - guess why - but that's an anomaly.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: GMC on Sat, 17 November 2012, 04:13:22: In for a pair of shift keys, left and right, OEM for a pure.
Or a OEM fn key if not making shifts.

Looking real good bud
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 17 November 2012, 04:17:55: Nope OEM is your standard cap from like Filco, WASD, and CM and a few other. If you need oem samples just order some blank individual caps from WASD. Also I can get you some pics of my metal caps if you want ill have zinc, aluminum, and titanium once they all get here.

P.S. cant wait to add a silver one from you to the mix.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mistakemistake on Sat, 17 November 2012, 05:00:12: I'm in!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Batmann on Sat, 17 November 2012, 05:19:08: The more I see it, the more I love it
This is the most appealing cap I've seen to date (probably cause I love jewells, I'm a ring junkie)
Will it be signed like the proto you sent to mkawa? (IT HAS TO BE!!....humhum, sorry cry from the heart!)

I Can't wait :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TotalChaos on Sat, 17 November 2012, 09:19:38: I am interested in Function keys, modifier keys, cursor keys and those keys above the cursor keys.

If I was going to only do 1 single key in silver then I would rather do Pause/Break or Scroll Lock so it would not interfere with my typing nor the looks of the keyboard. There are already a million custom ESC keys on the market.

If I was going to do only 2 silver keys then I would rather do as above OR just replace a matching set of modifiers, such as both ALT keys. To keep my typing in balance.

If I was going to do only 4 keys then I would rather replace all 4 cursor keys or 2 sets of modifiers.

Sorry, but at this time I am not sure I trust you with the $$$$$ to buy all 12 function keys at once. :)) Maybe 1 or 2 :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Sat, 17 November 2012, 10:03:19: I love shiny stuff so I'm in, I can always use more shiny keys

(http://i.imgur.com/PFWof.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Acetrak on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:08:24: What case+plate is that tsangan? It looks great :eek:

EDIT: My guess is the LZ-SE :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:27:43: An imaginary one, tsangan doesn't own any keyboards.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:32:00: Hmmmmm... I was planning on doing one row at a time, first all singles, then going through modifiers etcetera, one every few months. Would you prefer me to make up all my masters in one go so that you can pick everything you want at one time? Being aware that there'll be a considerably longer lead-in time if I do things that way. My progress today, for example, was just filling the external and internal radii, true yesterday I measured and cut all four sides, soldered them together, and soldered in the thickening at the back of the joins - but there's no way of knowing how much time I'll get in the workshop on any given day.

GMC - I plan on eventually making more or less every key, some like the space or ISO enter would probably be to heavy even for the strongest springs so they'll be the obvious exceptions, but all the rest should get done... eventually...

TheProfosist - That's good I've got enough OEM caps from my Pure to keep me busy for a while and glad to know it's easy enough to get the others.

Batmann - That's not my signature, that's the Hallmark of the Edinburgh Assay Office, it (or it's equivilant from London, Birmingham, Sheffield, or Dublin) is required by law to sell any article of silver over 7.78g in the UK. Whilst these keys are slightly under that I feel it's a worthy thing to do, especially as any larger keys will require marking, It'd sort-of break the uniformity for anyone who wants a whole board. The small flaws, imperfections I could live with for myself, and which barely show indicate that the prototype is exactly that, the production models will (I hope) be perfect so it immediately stands un-needing of a signature. I may sign any true one-off's or limited runs I do, but that's for the future.

TotalChaos - Surely they're all row E as well - these keys are going to be blank so you can pop them anywhere on row E. Again, I'll do legends if there's any demand for it but it will increase the cost dramatically. It's OK, it'd only be £££ for 12 keys, surely you trust me with that ;) I'll maybe snap a picture or two at work tomorrow to assuage any fears that I might be running a scam as I understand that I'm hugely new on this scene.

tsangan - LASER ablation engraving? I won't be doing anything like that :eek: any legends I do will be hand worked, with the option of it being in-filled with gold.

Ok, I've decided I'll run Cherry and OEM in pairs regardless, just so I end up with a full set of masters. It means it'll take a bit longer at each stage, but ultimately I think it'll be worth it.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:39:47: Wow, a full set of Cherry profile sterling silver keycaps? I'm gonna start saving now :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:42:23: It'd probably be about the same cost as my dream watch... no, I don't have one, and probably wont for a few decades more. Really needs a :sigh: smiley...
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: i3oilermaker on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:43:47: What's the dream watch?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:56:05: IWC MK XI pilots watch. (http://www.antique-watch.com/img4/w8153a.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 17 November 2012, 16:05:14: An Omega Speedmaster, or any Breitling with a 24 hour face. :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sat, 17 November 2012, 16:06:01: Quote from: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:56:05
IWC MK XI pilots watch. (http://www.antique-watch.com/img4/w8153a.jpg)
A piece of history.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tipo33 on Sat, 17 November 2012, 16:09:58: Quote from: guilleguillaume on Sat, 17 November 2012, 16:06:01
Quote from: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 12:56:05
IWC MK XI pilots watch. (http://www.antique-watch.com/img4/w8153a.jpg)
A piece of history.
So is the Speedmaster. First watch worn on the moon, one of the few watches certified for spaceflight.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sat, 17 November 2012, 17:33:14: It's not so much about the history (though that is awsome too) nor the calibre (which is also awesome) but the form, the proportions, the tones and the layout. It's just; perfect. If there were perfect reproductions out there, then I'd be happy(ish) with one, but I've never seen anything which so captures the nature of the thing. It has wabi.

I'm sure the Speedmaster is a awful' nice watch 'an all; but (for me) it has a cluttered face, is overly weighty and overly complex. I'm sure it's perfect for what it was designed for, but I'm no space man, and even if I were, I'd be rockin' a mk XI.

Anyway, this is drifting awfully off topic. Torpe anyone? BS? It might not get done right now, but I don't want anyone to be feelin' left out. :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sat, 17 November 2012, 18:45:35: It would be fantastic if you could do some keys for Topre switches.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 01:13:51: The skill and time involved to make such a thing... I am tentatively interested in a cherry profile (E is "Esc" row right?). Is there any way of preventing it from oxidizing?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Sun, 18 November 2012, 01:56:44: Quote from: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 01:13:51
The skill and time involved to make such a thing... I am tentatively interested in a cherry profile (E is "Esc" row right?). Is there any way of preventing it from oxidizing?
Not really, exposure to air oxidizes silver. You can store it in a zip lock bag with an anti-tarnish slip ;E

Just get silver cleaner or there's some boiling water method to clean it every so often
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 02:35:07: So basically I'd have to shine it every few months? Does that take very long or require cleaner?

Also - Could those markings be stamped on the inside of the cap to preserve the outer beauty?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Sun, 18 November 2012, 02:46:32: Not sure if you have anything silver but they oxidize VERY fast, a few months your silver key will be brown :rofl:

Cleaning it with silver cleaner will only take a minute at most, dip it in then rinse it with water
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 02:52:31: BROWN in only a few months?! WTF really?? Why would it tarnish so fast? That's kinda ridiculous... Would titanium or platinum be better options and still be workable?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: jeroplane on Sun, 18 November 2012, 02:56:33: This is pretty cool. But yeah most people with silver jewellery leave it in the box and only wear it on occasion. If this piece was sitting exposed on your keyboard, and not to mention fingers touching it every day, it will tarnish very quickly.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Sun, 18 November 2012, 03:02:54: Quote from: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 02:52:31
BROWN in only a few months?! WTF really?? Why would it tarnish so fast? That's kinda ridiculous... Would titanium or platinum be better options and still be workable?
If you wear silver jewlery everyday it does not tarnish it might get dirty but won't tarnish but if its on your keyboard it should tarnish from 2-4 weeks, at few months in it will be REALLY tarnished

if you constantly rub it with your finger it won't tarnish :rofl:
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Beast on Sun, 18 November 2012, 03:06:06: Quote from: tsangan on Sun, 18 November 2012, 03:02:54
if you constantly rub it with your finger it won't tarnish :rofl:

I like dirty talk ^___^
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sun, 18 November 2012, 12:00:31: Progress for today; top formed and chamfered, top of the sides chamfered, top and sides stitched, top burnished over to make perfect soldering face, pickled, top soldered to sides, pickled - it now looks like a cap! Stem soldered up out of a base of 0.6mm sheet, two bits of 1.3mm wire soldered to it in a cruciform, pickled, two bits of 1mm wire soldered sticking up to form two of the prongs, pickled, one more, pickled, one more, pickled, excess silver cut away, sides filed flush. Stem soldered onto cap.

Next to do is file the four prongs down, first flush with the base of the cap, then file off an additional 0.7mm to make them the correct length. Clean it, polish it, solder a stem on it, clean it, polish it and it'll be done.

The_Ed - It's the normal esc row key, as well as the number row key (there is an alternate profile for the esc row, but I don't have one and it's not very commonly used) so you'll be fine on that score here's Cherry's own page on the matter (http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/key/mx.htm). Don't worry, it won't tarnish anything like as quickly as tsangan seems to think, yes it will tarnish, but it will take much longer than a few months to go brown. After about three weeks on my board the prototype was as shiny as the day it went on, and I don't like to say it, but we've got some stuff that's been sitting on display for a few years without polishing - it's not as bright as it was by any stretch of the imagination, but it's very obviously still silver, and a quick rub with a polishing cloth (don't use dips!) brings anything that bad back to shiny goodness in no time.
Quote from: asura on Fri, 16 November 2012, 12:31:30
over time the copper in the alloy (the 7.5% that isn't Ag) will oxidise, this can be easily cleaned by wiping with a polishing cloth a bit of which I intend to include with every package
mkawa got a manky used bit of cloth 'cause it's what I had handy, everyone will get a couple of square centimetres of fresh, clean polishing cloth with every purchase. It may be possible to have the mark on the inside, but I'm not sure. It's a punch (like a centre punch but not) that places the mark, and due to the position of the stem they might not be able to get it on the inner face - I'll have a word with Edinburgh, though personally I don't feel it detracts from the cap one bit. Titanium? Not from me - not one of my metals. Platinum? We're into 24ct gold territory in terms of cost and the final weight of the thing will be comparable to a very generous wedding band...

Whilst plating is possible, it's far from my favourite thing in the world, a white gold engagement ring that's been rhodium plated (the norm due to it being cheaper to use a silver+nickel alloy then plate it, than using a better alloy using palladium, doubly so as you then get to charge for re-plating it!) tends to require re-plating every few years, the frequency depends on a huge number of factors, but I've a friend who has to get it done every two years!

Oh and I weighed a row-E Cherry key today, 1.450g.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 18 November 2012, 13:11:01: sorry, i've been preoccupied wrenching on my car the last day and a half or so. pictures at some point
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: GMC on Sun, 18 November 2012, 13:26:36: Keep the hallmark on the exterior, facing the back of the board. It's part of the key and shouldn't be hidden inside the cap
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Alessandro on Sun, 18 November 2012, 14:25:27: I agree with GMC, the hallmarks help make it special in my opinion. :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sun, 18 November 2012, 15:15:48: If it can be an option I'll make it an option... I just don't think it can be, it's not like it's something I can do myself - forging Hallmarks is up to ten years in the clink... They do have swan necked punches, but even at that I think they'd struggle to get around the stem and the opposite side of the cap and I don't have a swan necked makers punch (an additional £80) so thinking about it, it doesn't actually help anyway...

And an appalling picture of the main row of jewelry at work, it's about 5m squeezed horribly into a single image...

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7701.jpg)

...it always shocks me when I see images like that as to how much stuff we actually have. I may take a couple of decent images of a couple of pieces I've made some time next week...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 15:24:26: No one uses their "Standard type (8mm)" profile anymore. And I don't think cherry has made those for many years as well, except for maybe special orders. We all use their "Cylindrical type (7mm)" profile doubleshots. Thus "cherry profile" is "Cylindrical type (7mm) profile" on these forums. I was just trying to make sure which row it was as cherry labels their rows 0-5 (only now do I see their site has changed this to A-F). 0 or 1 (E or F) are used for the "Esc" row depending on the board.

(http://i.imgur.com/1RS9j.png)

It's good to know that they wont tarnish very quickly and turn brown as Tsangan would have me believe. A little buff every few months with a cloth that's even included is easy enough.

I think that hallmarks greatly detract from the look of everything. As long as they are hidden I don't mind. But once I see them they drive me crazy.
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Sun, 18 November 2012, 17:46:14: Not sure how it won't tarnish as it is not in contact with human skin most of the time, unless there's a difference in your sterling silver then all the other sterling silver I've seen/owned. What I know from experience is if its out in the open the oxygen will get to it.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sun, 18 November 2012, 19:14:45: Um... being in contact with skin would only increase the rate of tarnishing.

Yes if it's out in the open air oxygen will get to the copper and it will tarnish slowly, when worn, the sulphur from sweat and bodily oils will make it tarnish more quickly - as sulphur tarnishes silver as well as copper. Whats more it's a considerably harder tarnish to remove. Yes, if there's sufficient movement of a piece, say playing with a ring, or a bracelet that moves against a wrist, then this will be reduced or even eliminated by wearing the tarnish away as quickly as it forms, however there will always be a part of a piece which isn't so abraded (such as the inside of chain links) and it will show this accelerated tarnishing. The back of chains tend to be the most guilty party, and the backs of earrings can get pretty bad too.

Equally there very well could be a difference in our Sterlings as there's still a whole 7.5% which can be at great variance, it's usually just copper, but how pure is that copper? If there's already a high concentration of copper oxide in the lattice then tarnishing will be greatly accelerated. Equally insufficient pickling after soldering leaves excess copper oxide in the surface of the piece, if this isn't properly cleaned off then the silver will again tarnish more rapidly, further to this, if a piece is over-exposed to an oxidizing flame then the oxygen can penetrate deep into the silver requiring a long and arduous process to completely remove it, this isn't often done, resulting in a piece that will never look as bright as a perfect piece and it will tarnish even, faster. Whats more it's often plated over, resulting in a piece that looks perfect until the plate (usually pure silver so faster wearing) wears out, exposing the marred material beneath.

There is in point of fact a completely non-tarnishing silver alloy which contains 1% geranium - technically there is tarnish, but it's a thin coating of geranium-oxide, this doesn't affect the appearance of the item in any way and is the barrier between the copper and the oxygen which prevents tarnishing. Anything made from this is re-heated after polishing to ensure that the geranium oxide can form before copper oxide/sulphate.

Equally how was the piece finished? If it's simply soldered, pickled, and colored then it will oxidize much more quickly than if it is burnished before coloring. Soldering silver also anneals it, this loosens it's molecular structure adding to it's porosity, it also causes rapid and deep oxidation of the copper which needs to be cleaned by chemical etching (that pickle I've been talking about) polishing cloths and dips just aren't enough. This dissolves the copper oxide making the surface even more porous, if this is then colored then all those molecular gaps are still there - just waiting for oxygen, sulphur, whatever to join the party. If a piece is burnished (rubbed with a piece of polished steel/agate) then this smooths the surface in a way that simply coloring doesn't. The pressure causes the silver (and copper) to flow into the gaps, and toughens up the lattice reducing the rate of oxidation (the gaps just aren't there) and increasing the hardness to boot.

There's a really interesting process called reticulation, where you repeatedly heat Stirling (or a lower Ag alloy works even better) and pickle out the copper oxide, four, five, six times, however many it takes - but never too hot, just holding it at a low red. This leaves you with a surface which is copper poor above a substrate which is copper/copper-oxide rich. If you heat it very hot, very quickly the pure silver on the surface flows beneath the torch and crinkles beautifully.

Is it 925/1000 or a lower silver alloy? 800/1000 is still an acceptable alloy in the UK (hallmark-able no less) and US (and elsewhere?) it'll tarnish more rapidly due to the increased copper content but it looks exactly the same as Sterling silver. If someone were unscrupulous they could considerably lower that fineness and still maintain the silvery appearance. Was it really Stirling silver at all? I hate to say it but there is a hell of a lot of stuff out there that's simply stamped "925" as if owing a $20 punch makes it so. I've had someone bring me a piece for repair made from what appears (to me) to be aluminium that's been stamped that way. There's stuff calling its self "Peruvian Silver" which is anything but, samples tested have contained all sorts of rubbish, including one with a dangerous quantity of arsenic! That's why every piece I make will bare a hallmark, it's the oldest form of consumer protection in the world.

Again, yes, Sterling silver will tarnish, as I said in my second post. If you want to keep it immaculately shiny then it'll probably take a polish once a month or so, if you want to stop it from going "brown", once or twice a year should more than suffice. Unless you want a natural patina, in which case let it grow, and if you want instant patina, or a blackened cap (the top won't stay black) I can do that too. Frankly, I'd be more concerned by a buildup of copper sulphate on the tops of oft-unused keys, as I say, it's harder to clean, takes a bit more elbow grease.

If you want fine silver caps I can do that too, it doesn't oxidize even under an oxidizing torch (no copper see) However, it's considerably softer so much so that you'd have to be very careful with the stems when installing the caps.

If it's impossible to mark the inside of the piece, then it's impossible to mark the inside of the piece and the mark will be on the outside. The next time I'm in contact with the assay office I'll ask, but every piece will be marked.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: MMB on Sun, 18 November 2012, 19:16:22: tl;dr put it on your keyboard to look pretty, but don't actually use it if you want it clean :P
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Sun, 18 November 2012, 19:21:44: Fine silver is 99.9 right?

LOL @ MMB.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 18 November 2012, 21:08:47: If the stem would be too soft if it was made out of fine silver, then what about the cap being fine silver and the stem being sterling silver? Then the cap wouldn't tarnish, and the stem would still be strong. The best of both worlds.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 18 November 2012, 21:52:48: asura, can you ping me with what compound i should use to protect the key you sent from tarnishing? (obv i won't be using it except to test cruciform fit, which looks excellent). i have a large variety of chemicals on hand to choose from.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 19 November 2012, 02:02:25: Quote from: Shadovved on Sun, 18 November 2012, 19:21:44
Fine silver is 99.9 right?

LOL @ MMB.

It's 92.5.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Beast on Mon, 19 November 2012, 02:04:33: Quote from: mkawa on Sun, 18 November 2012, 21:52:48
i have a large variety of chemicals on hand to choose from.

Meth lab?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 19 November 2012, 02:06:23: W00P!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Mon, 19 November 2012, 08:19:11: mmb - Yea, yea, yea. A lot of words, but some of them are interesting... ish ;D They should still be ok to use, just may require a wipe over at the end of the day - as I say, the prototype spent three weeks on my board and never got any attention and was still looking as good (appart from the fingerprints, which wiped off) as the day I put it on there.

shadovved - Yes, fine = 99.9%, or 999. You do get bulion sometimes called superfine which is 9998, or even 9999, but the cost rockets for that level of purity.

The_Ed - I could do that, but again it would greatly increae the cost, getting a stem perfectly alligned isn't easy, I had to un-solder and re-solder the prototypes stem about six or seven times to get it right, each time taking five to ten minuits to try and line it up perfectly.

mkawa - The only way to stop tarnishing compleatly is to impart a passivation layer, in the non-tarnishing silver above this was done by including 1% geranium in the alloy. The only other real option is the use of a laquer. To remove tarnish, rub it with the soft (and dirty) cloth included in the box, it's probably inpregnated with an inhibitor as well, which will slow any tarnishing, but this will be worn off the top of the key by use - which should in turn keep it cleen, by abrading the surface tarnish.

Alessandro - Nope, fine is 999. "American coin silver" 800, Sterling silver 925, Britania silver 956, fine silver 999; those are the assayable siver finenesses in the UK. In gold it's; 9ct 375, 14ct 585, 18ct 750, 22ct 915, 24ct 999. Palladium is; 500, 950, 999. And platinum is; 850, 900, 950, 999.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 19 November 2012, 08:21:45: Less IC, more GB
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 19 November 2012, 08:31:02: Why would it greatly increase cost to have a fine silver cap with a sterling silver stem? The price of fine silver VS sterling silver? You are making it sound like it would make the stem attachment process much more tedious in your post.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Mon, 19 November 2012, 09:34:16: I agree with tsangan! :D

Get the fancy forms rolling :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 19 November 2012, 10:19:11: Oh, whoops! I thought these were just regular Sterling. I need to listen. :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Mon, 19 November 2012, 12:25:27: tsangan - Once I get both masters made (Cherry and OEM profiles) then I'll move on to taking orders. Then once they're all fulfilled I'll take payment and post them out, then I'll be done for this round. But there won't be any progress till I'm back in the workshop on Thursday, and it probably won't be till the end of the weekend - if I'm lucky - that I'll have both masters finished.

The_Ed - So I'm making masters, then taking a mould of those masters, making wax modles, casting in precious metal, cleaning the castings, polishing and colouring.

Making caps with stirling stems and fine elcewhere would involve making a second master without a stem, making a stem master, casting one lot of fine, casting one lot of sterling, cleaning the fine, cleaning the stirling, soldering them togeather - taking up to two hours to ensure perfect algnment, polishing and colouring

If you want a hand fabricated cap, then that's also an option, but the cost will be huge - I haven't been timing myself to the minuite, but call it about 4/5 hours work per cap, at approx. £25/h! Whats more it would be less perfect than the cast version due to the solder.

Shadovved - Patience young one, patience. :p

Alessandro - Kid, the plan was originally just sterling, but it's not a huge ammount of extra effort to produce different metals - I'm probably going to do a tester on fine silver, and if it works out ok then it'll be an option too. MMB was just querying my mentioning of fine silver without defineing it in finness or percentage purity.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 19 November 2012, 12:37:10: Ah... I understand now. So I have to choose fine or sterling for the whole cap. If fine is strong enough in the stem I will be going with that.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Tue, 20 November 2012, 11:05:44: Good news / bad news The_Ed. I've spoken to Charlie (Edinburgh Assay Office) and luckily he remembered the cap, probably because it was such an unusual thing for them to get. He says they can't mark the inside of the cap - the angle that the punch would be going in at would require them to hit very hard, so hard it would probably cut through the metal where the cut of the mark would be at its deepest - I hope this makes sense... However, he told me that, although I'm not technically supposed to do it, I could post down some strips of silver to be hallmarked, then solder them onto the inside of an un-marked key.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 20 November 2012, 11:19:26: How much extra would that hallmarked strip soldering thing cost? Or can I just request that you don't hallmark mine at all since that would be easiest? I believe you said that they were under the limit where they would have to be hallmarked. Aspies hate marks on their shinies...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Tue, 20 November 2012, 13:50:30: Not much, maybe £3? I'm not doing un-hallmarked ones, sorry, but that's just the way it is. The absolutely easiest thing for me would be to get the master hallmarked, each casting would be marked without the hassle of sending them down to Edinburgh... But doing something like that comes with a jail sentence of up to 10 years - so it's not something I'll be doing. Previous punishments include, involuntary forced transportation to the colonies for life, and death by hanging, so they've mellowed out somewhat over the years :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 20 November 2012, 14:49:50: You may have to do a test to see if the hallmarked strip will interfere with switch pressing. But if it doesn't interfere, £3 is a small price to pay for the outside being perfect. Well, perfect if fine silver turns out to be strong enough.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Tue, 20 November 2012, 17:12:41: I think the marking on the outside is quite unique to this as it's made of silver and the easiest way to tell is the stamping so it adds to the uniqueness of the cap, though I also do see here The_ed is coming from and wanting a flawless smooth key to enjoy

I can say that I am definitely interested in it with the marking on the outside for the reason I stated above
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 20 November 2012, 17:14:52: I wouldn't mind the marking on the outside, on the back of the cap. You wouldn't be able to see it, but would know it's there.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: singaporean123 on Wed, 21 November 2012, 01:07:56: i'm always in for shiny mettalic thingsss.

you's so passionate about your crafting ;D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Fri, 23 November 2012, 12:42:48: gigantic photo. will it post? survey says no

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24794081/_DSC9377.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24794081/_DSC9370.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24794081/_DSC9384.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24794081/_DSC9387.JPG
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: metalliqaz on Fri, 23 November 2012, 13:04:21: I guess that's big enough :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Fri, 23 November 2012, 13:04:48: I like it, very much :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 23 November 2012, 13:54:20: Looking good so whats happening with that one again?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Fri, 23 November 2012, 15:09:20: GAH! They really are massive pic's - I'm out in the sticks at the moment and connection speed is well down... opening these up is like being back in the good ol' 56.6kbs era!

I'm really glad you managed to catch the imperfections on the back. The top bits are bad solder joint, caused by the repeated re-heating necessary to get the stem in the right position - I think it took 5 additional goes before I got it right, this will not be present in the production models. The lower one is an error in polishing - I'll make sure that I'm using a brand new mop when polishing up the production models so there will be no "ripple" marks. And the bits immediately under the punch mark are from the punching - no control over that I'm afraid...

The underside? We can just pretend we didn't see the underside eh? It's functional, what more does one require from a stem...

What's happening is yesterday I did our in-shop christmas display and today I've been working on our christmas window display - tomorrow will see it finished, and maybe some work on the cap/s.

What sill needs doing
Cherry cap needs 0.7mm taking off the height of the stems, and a 45 degree bevel onto each of the stems
Cherry cap needs tube stem soldered onto top of key for wax injecting
Cherry cap needs final filling
Cherry cap needs papering 150, 180, 240, 500, 1000
Cherry cap needs mold producing
Cherry cap needs 2 wax copies producing and sent to Birmingham one for fine silver one for sterling silver
Cherry cap needs me to check it and make sure everything is perfect, if not redo from start.

OEM cap needs measuring
OEM cap needs marking out
OEM cap needs sawing
OEM cap needs sawed edges beveling
OEM cap needs soldering
OEM cap needs thickening at corners
OEM cap needs excess thickening filing down
OEM cap needs marking out for top
OEM cap needs top soldering on
OEM cap needs stem fabricating
OEM cap needs stem soldered into position
OEM cap needs stem position adjusting - possibly un-soldering and re-soldering
OEM cap needs stem cut flush with bottom of cap
OEM cap needs 0.7mm (T.B.C.) taking off the height of the stems, and a 45 degree bevel onto each of the stems
OEM cap needs tube stem soldered onto top of key for wax injecting
OEM cap needs final filling
OEM cap needs papering 150, 180, 240, 500, 1000
OEM cap needs mold producing
OEM cap needs 2 wax copies producing and sent to Birmingham one for fine silver one for sterling silver
OEM cap needs me to check it and make sure everything is perfect, if not redo from start.

Ahhh - miss understood sorry - that one is going to be auctioned off through GH for GH and all proceeds going to GH!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Sat, 24 November 2012, 04:35:08: Sweet when the auction? Im in!
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 24 November 2012, 19:27:32: the auction won't go up until next week at the earliest

i only photographed the underside to show the cruciform -- clever and less prone to manufacturing error than some others i've seen
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 24 November 2012, 19:29:33: also, my photos don't do the cap justice as far as aesthetics are concerned. this is a VERY good looking cap. it easily competes with my titanium space
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Sun, 25 November 2012, 16:53:47: Cherry master finished...

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7737.jpg)

...ugly eh?

For the eagle eyed amongst you, yes, the curve at the front comes 0.4mm-ish too low at the centre point, and at the back it's 0.2mm-ish high overall. Not quite the level of accuracy I was looking for at the outset, but I don't feel it's unbearable.

I'll be starting on the OEM master this Thursday.

Any thoughts about finishes? The prototype has a bright polish, but I can do a brushed finish - either regular or irregular - on any or all faces and I have a friend with a sand (...or bead... not sure, must check!) blaster who'll give me some time on it.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Batmann on Sun, 25 November 2012, 17:10:21: thx for the update!

Master looks nice to me, what's that tube on top for?

concerning finishes I think all will look nice, some sample would probably help
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: danielucf on Sun, 25 November 2012, 17:10:35: I know the Titanium sandblasted was the best looking of the bunch in my opinion, but not sure if silver sandblasted would look as good. The picture where it just looked like a block of silver but a keycap was pretty nice too, and shiny. So I guess either of those I personally would be happy with.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: i488 on Sun, 25 November 2012, 23:18:39: Beautiful. In for sure
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Mon, 26 November 2012, 10:59:11: The master key(s) will never be used on a board, they're sole purpose is to provide a void in a silicone mould. The tube on the top is there to provide a path for wax to flow (it's a sprue) the hot wax will be injected under pressure into the mould giving replica wax keys. Wax keys and sprue are then attached to a tree and cast. I use tube rather than wire as it's lighter and therefore cheaper.

I'll be making four test keys so I can either test different finishes on them, or provide testers on bits of sheet.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 26 November 2012, 11:18:51: Try out that hallmarked strip thing on 1 of the 4 test keys to see if it interferes when pressing it. Soldering the strip on shouldn't mess up the color on the outside should it?

For the titanium spacebars there was a choice of shiny, brushed, or sandblasted. I will be going with standard shiny for this as well, but it can't hurt your sales to carry the 3 standard finishes. But since you are making 4 test keys what would the fourth trial finish be I wonder...

EDIT: Are 2 of them going to be fine, and 2 of them sterling?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 26 November 2012, 11:40:32: Quote from: The_Ed on Mon, 26 November 2012, 11:18:51
Try out that hallmarked strip thing on 1 of the 4 test keys to see if it interferes when pressing it. Soldering the strip on shouldn't mess up the color on the outside should it?

For the titanium spacebars there was a choice of shiny, brushed, or sandblasted. I will be going with standard shiny for this as well, but it can't hurt your sales to carry the 3 standard finishes. But since you are making 4 test keys what would the fourth trial finish be I wonder...

EDIT: Are 2 of them going to be fine, and 2 of them sterling?
Something the_Ed and I can agree on! Go shiny!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 26 November 2012, 12:14:06: Is shiny the only thing we have agreed on in the last few months? I think it may be...

Hang on, then why did you order 2 brushed?...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Mon, 26 November 2012, 15:40:10: The strip won't interfere with the switch, the silver cap is .6mm sheet, probably use .5mm sheet for the strip and a standard Cherry cap has a thickness of around 1.5mm so it's not a bother. As to discolouration, the whole key will go horrible like the picture above, then I clean and polish it and it's shiny again. It's really not a problem.

Stopping to think about it, I'll probably just make two testers, one of each profile, and one sterling, one fine that'll tell me everything I need to know. The 2x2 was a bit of a brain fart!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 26 November 2012, 15:58:52: Sounds good on the strip interference and discoloration then. I just wish they could be cherry thickness for the 'thock' they make...

With only 2 testers you'll only be able to try 2 finishes. So there won't be any pics to garner interest in other finishes but the 2. - Ah... I just remembered you have pics of the first shiny prototype, so the 2 testers could be brushed and sandblasted.

When's the current estimate on starting the mass production? 2 weeks? A month? Next year? I don't really know how long the casting process takes to set up.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Mon, 26 November 2012, 16:28:56: Ha! These make a thicker deeper sound than Cherry keys - I guess material makes as big or a bigger difference than thickness... sounds more like a backspace key than a 1x1 key, but still not quite - having said that, it's sound of the OEM cap I'm commenting upon - haven't tested the Cherry cap, and now can't till the testing stage! Standard Cherry thickness is an option I suppose, but it'll be about twice the cost with little/no perceivable gain, except that it'll make your switches very light. About 14g lighter. Can't use standard OEM's as they're too thin walled, so it'll need fabricating regardless.

Yup, took me days to realise that! Not that I've been thinking about it full time...

Currently my schedule looks something like this:

Fabricating OEM master two weeks?
Production of moulds two days.
Casting turnaround for testers week to ten days.

if good then next elce redo from start.

Ordering ten days to a month?

Casting turnaround week to ten days.
Hallmarking turnaround week to twenty days.
Papering an hour to two hours per cap.
Colouring half an hour to an hour per cap. / blasting 5 minutes per cap / brushed 10 minutes per cap
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: iMav on Mon, 26 November 2012, 17:17:23: If these become a reality, I am definitely interested in buying some.

Personally, I think the stamping on the back ADDS to the appeal!
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: tsangan on Mon, 26 November 2012, 17:23:22: Quote from: iMav on Mon, 26 November 2012, 17:17:23
If these become a reality, I am definitely interested in buying some.

Personally, I think the stamping on the back ADDS to the appeal!
iMav and I are on the same page here
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 26 November 2012, 19:07:35: There are always the stiffer cherry switches. I had to use a black to support my titanium spacebar. If you make cherry thickness an option for these, I'll have a thick one. But that would require you making another master right? It looks like these are gonna have as many customizations as the titanium spacebars.

Cherry profile, cherry thickness, shiny finish, and a hallmarked strip soldered to the inside. But a hallmarked strip on the inside of a cherry thickness key may actually interfere when pressing if the gap is less than half a millimeter... I'll have to look how much room there is later.

Hallmarking is an imperfection in the eyes of an Aspie. I don't know what you guys are seeing for it to add to the appeal...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 26 November 2012, 23:08:57: the hallmarking has a freaking castle on it. how can you not love it
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Mon, 26 November 2012, 23:29:19: The hallmarking makes you feel you really own a hunk of silver on your keyboard :D

How can you not want that?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 26 November 2012, 23:46:12: (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5j7a2PxUs1qg4uuro1_400.jpg)

NT's just don't understand...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Tue, 27 November 2012, 05:31:59: Thick cap won't require a fabricated master, take one Cherry cap, take a bit of dowel, blue-tack them together instant master. And don't worry about the Hallmark, for a stealth thick cap I'd solder it onto the "ceiling" of the cap - problem solved. Because silver is stronger than plastic, there's no need for the internal bracing so there's plenty of space up there to play with.

The reason I've been fabricating thinner walled masters is twofold, first the issue of mass vs spring force, I'm sure that not everyone is comfortable doing a spring swap. And secondly as a matter of accessibility, the thinner, lighter caps will obviously cost less, making them within budget for a larger group. It would be (as you can see) far easier for me to just make thick walled caps, but it would/will about double the cost (tbc) and would (I guess) push it outside what I'd be willing to pay for a silver cap - hence, thinner walls.

Silver is around twice the SG of titanium, and about four times the SG of aluminium. It really does make a big difference to the heft of the thing.

I like the mark too, but I can understand The_Ed's stance, which is why I'm' going to lengths to accommodate. There's also the possibility of have it running vertically (but still with a horizontal orientation to each mark) though it would have to be at an edge, couldn't be centred due to the stem - this is what's called a spot mark. In a standard mark they use two punches, my makers mark (that's the AP) and their assay mark, which has everything else on one punch (and involves cutting a new punch each year as the last mark is the date mark). For a spot mark, they use five individual punches, it's a couple(? Must check!) of quid more, but it can look effective on the right piece. The caps are basically square so could aesthetically take either orientation, something like the kyanite pendants I make demand spot marking, but most pieces work best with a standard mark.

Why do I keep suggesting alternatives‽
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Tue, 27 November 2012, 05:43:52: I think your current cap is good enough.............

Just that perhaps we can change the composition (shouldnt be too hard, can it?) of the material :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 27 November 2012, 18:37:55: So I can have - cherry profile, cherry thickness, shiny finish, and a hallmarked strip soldered to the ceiling (which wouldn't interfere with anything)? Sign me up! It's cool that you can make full cherry thickness without much effort.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: danielucf on Tue, 27 November 2012, 19:38:16: So not taking into account the work and craftsmanship, what would just the material cost for a thin versus thick keycap?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 28 November 2012, 04:35:41: Please post here when the auction for the prototype cap goes up.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Wed, 28 November 2012, 06:34:28: danielucf, that's a really dificult one to answer, and I should really just grasefully ignore the question about cost, but it's not the sort of thing I'd do. Besides - bulion prices are right there, so it's not like I'm keeping a seceret. Sterling silver casting grain can be had for £0.69/g at the moment - thin walled cherry cap will be around 6.5g so £4.85, add to that a gram of wax at £0.06/g, a flask (half/quater kilo) of investment at £100/kg which'll do a hundred or so caps, and the cost of melting the metal... makes me sound like a rip-off merchent expecting somewhere in the region of £30/cap? Let me explain...

I get my casting done in Birmingham, they have machines I can't afford (circa £20,000 each!) and the expertiese to produce perfect casts every time. So there's postage down to, and back up from Birmingham; and they charge(d last time I had work done, cost varies depending upon the bulion price) £1.25/g giving us £8.12 per cap. Only it'll be more than that, as they don't trim the sprue of exactly, just snip it with shears, so there'll probablyl be an extra gram or two which I can only get scrap value back for, but I won't be charging you for that. And they're not ripping me (or anyone) off, they have the initial cost of the machines to recoop, the cost of labour, the cost of electricity, investment, and the metal its self.

When I get caps back from them, I have to cut off the remainder of the sprue, file the top smooth, paper all five sides, and pre-polish.

Then there's postage down to Edinburgh, the fee of £2.50-ish per Hallmark, and the postage back up. Rasing the per/cap cost to £10.50-ish + four lots of postage £x split between y number of caps.

Finally there's finishing as noted above.

Thin cap 6.5g, thick cap 15g. Approximatley I won't know the exact weights until I get testers made.

Oh and all values quoted are ex.VAT at 20%! Jewellery trade always works ex.VAT... drives me nuts!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Batmann on Wed, 28 November 2012, 06:47:16: looks like a very fair price, I'm even more in!

It's not above the average price we've seen lately and it is much more valuable to me
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Wed, 28 November 2012, 06:48:19: Your silver caps are the way to go!

The real "future's" cap!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: feng on Wed, 28 November 2012, 08:23:58: Would love to have one with Cherry profile. It looks awesome!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 28 November 2012, 10:22:13: You answered way more than my question which is very nice of you to do so. I guess I should have just looked up silver prices, but I wasn't sure how much the thin versus thick would weigh. I didn't mean to insinuate you were charging too much or anything, I think what ever you charge will be more than fair for your time and work. I'm eagerly waiting for the group buy to start :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: el2k on Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:54:18: Smart mate. Can't wait for these to come out.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: Shadovved on Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:55:15: GO ASURA!

Less talking and answering question and more crafting :p :p :p :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: mkawa on Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:56:11: just fyi folks, the auction will probably go up this weekend and run through the week. i have various real life fires to put out until then.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Wed, 28 November 2012, 13:20:28: I gathered you were just curious danielucf, but I'm sure that if I'd just said £4.85 then someone would have been aghast at my estimated pricing, and I'd have had to explain the whole process anyway. In case it hasn't been noted already, I'm a bit of a wordy person. That, and I'm really enjoying my keyboard ;D

Quote from: Shadovved on Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:55:15
...Less talking and answering question and more crafting...

So I go back to work in... 15h, first I have a meeting with a guy from the water board, we've got a leak, so I'll be doing some DIY plumbing - worry not, I'm competent if not qualified and it's just throwing a ball-valve in front of a cistern. Sort/display/stash £1,000 of fossils into their respective homes, re-stick a smd led strip inside a haberdashery cabinet using a stronger glue this time. Then I'll finally get into the workshop... to tidy my bench, strip my bench, install a new wax injector (no more microwaving wax and injecting with a syringe) reinstate the rest of my tools/equipment that got moved and ultimately have my lunch.

After all that I'll get to work on the OEM cap, I expect to get it marked out, cut and chamfered. Maybe a bit of soldering, but the top definitely won't be going on. It's possible that I'll get the moulds made this weekend, but most unlikely, I foresee it being next Thu/Fri and posting the wax testers down on Sat. Once they come back and get finished I'll post up an ordering topic and form.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 28 November 2012, 17:28:38: Quote from: mkawa on Wed, 28 November 2012, 11:56:11
just fyi folks, the auction will probably go up this weekend and run through the week. i have various real life fires to put out until then.
thanks mkawa if you could please post here when you start the auction it would be great
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E
Post by: asura on Thu, 29 November 2012, 16:50:30: So in a fit of madness I've decided to do all five major cap types simultaneously - I had planned to do them all, but there was going to be much staggering involved. However, I decided that would be too much trouble to keep track of which was happening when, who's turn it was next, which profile's I'd done for which switch... So instead of just the two cap types, there's also going to be Alps (cheep ebay board on it's way to me) BucklingSpring (to be borrowed from my brother) and Topre (kindly loaned by longweight)

What this does is push the time scale back a bit... it's not as bad as it first appears as I work some extra hours in December anyway, but it'll still most likely be mid/late January that the final products will ship, assuming I don't wear my finger tips down to the bone polishing them all up... need to get me an army of gnomes!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Thu, 29 November 2012, 16:52:34: Brilliant!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 30 November 2012, 01:06:50: Great to hear! and cat wait for the auction for the original.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Halverson on Fri, 30 November 2012, 01:08:21: Amazing that you're doing all the profiles! Now I'll have to choose between them all which of my boards deserves some silver :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: DrSchlock on Fri, 30 November 2012, 14:06:29: Interested
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Dgsbllx on Fri, 30 November 2012, 14:09:16: Definitely interested. Got to gets me some bling.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: rekanise on Mon, 03 December 2012, 05:34:58: interested!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Mon, 03 December 2012, 13:45:05: Minor update. .6mm sheet is too thin, so I'll have to get some .8mm sheet in (not one of my standard thickness's) OEM is just about working (I butchered an ABS cap) just need to tweak the mould a little bit to get all four pins for the stem working.

I'll start work on the thick Cherry mould tomorrow.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: cwang1004 on Mon, 03 December 2012, 15:25:43: I'm a collector. So you know how much I love original and personal works. Especially good ones like yours.

Absolutely very interested.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: The_Ed on Mon, 03 December 2012, 16:15:50: Quote from: asura on Mon, 03 December 2012, 13:45:05
I'll start work on the thick Cherry mould tomorrow.

Cool, thanks for making full cherry thickness an option. Hopefully fine silver turns out to be strong enough for the stem.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 04 December 2012, 07:21:45: So wheres that proto key id like to get my hand on that thing.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:10:11: sorry, completely forgot to do this. i'll put the ad up today with the subpar pictures from before. maybe i'll flickr them up to make the pics look better

HDR!!!!
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Halverson on Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:23:43: Quote from: TheProfosist on Tue, 04 December 2012, 07:21:45
So wheres that proto key id like to get my hand on that thing.

Prof loves da metals :)
Title: Re: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:29:43: Quote from: Halverson on Tue, 04 December 2012, 08:23:43
Quote from: TheProfosist on Tue, 04 December 2012, 07:21:45
So wheres that proto key id like to get my hand on that thing.

Prof loves da metals :)
hell yea i do, its now my favorite to type on.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: mkawa on Tue, 04 December 2012, 11:56:39: prototype auction is open: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37993.new#new
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: RinSewand on Wed, 05 December 2012, 18:28:43: Looking forward to them being available :) Beautiful work!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Glissant on Sun, 09 December 2012, 13:39:34: Like I mentioned in the auction thread, I would love to have at least one of these as a pendant piece. I'm a bit of a jewelry guy from time to time, and that would be an amazing thing for me to own.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:22:23: Very minor update;

I don't know what LWs Topre caps are made from, but bluetack doesn't stick well at all! Had to through a mould away as the cap fell of the stem and I'm having to redo it with extra-tacky bluetack (chewing-gum [don't worry LW I'll wash it really well before I post it back down]) and it's curing as we speak.

Order to the bullion dealer for 0.8mm sheet (and a load of other stuff) goes in tomorrow and once it gets in I can start work on the thin walled Cherry profile cap.

Alps board arrived yesterday and it looks like I'll be able to produce caps for it without too much bother.

When my brother finishes work for the semester I'll be getting a couple of BS keys to play with.

Turning them into a pendant would be no problem at all, just a few quid more for the bale - would it be a fixed bale or a dangling bale? Cuff links are another option, tie-pins, rings, whatever... probably to big for earrings, but it's all a matter of taste.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:25:55: Just bought another suit today, you really have my attention with keycap cufflinks!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:55:48: Due to the size of the caps they would have to be for single rather than double cuffs. And I'm of the opinion that chain and T-bar would be better than a hinged link due to the depth of the cap.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Glissant on Sun, 09 December 2012, 17:08:12: I'm not sure which bale configuration would be best, but I don't think it matters much to me. It would just be hanging on a silver chain I own already. Let me know what you think would be best.
And paying a couple of extra quid would be no problem for that either. SO EXCITING :D !
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheGrey on Sun, 09 December 2012, 18:17:38: Silver spacebar please be next project! :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 09 December 2012, 23:27:16: Titanium not good enough for you?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:21:18: Silver would probably be too heavy for a space bar, I haven't weighed my 6.25 bar so I don't know for sure, but as a guestimate it'd be somewhere in the region of 45g for a thin one, or about double that for a thick wall!

Next'll probably be bottom row modifiers, not fully decided on 1, 1.25, or 1.5 yet.

Equally I've had a thought about the cuff links. A simple set of cuff links with a raised cross, that way the caps themselves would be detachable - one could simply take them off ones keyboard, and put them on ones sleeves.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:23:52: Quote from: asura on Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:21:18
#one could simply take them off ones keyboard, and put them on ones sleeves.

You have my full attention.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:39:28: And of course my young friend, it would allow you to put any MX key cap onto the links!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Mon, 10 December 2012, 13:14:57: I can't tell you awesome this is, I can save a fortune on cufflinks. If I want something new I can just have it custom lasered. Count me in ASAP!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheGrey on Tue, 11 December 2012, 17:36:31: Quote from: The_Ed on Sun, 09 December 2012, 23:27:16
Titanium not good enough for you?
you best be kidding...a double shot silver with gold, windowed in crystal quartz keyset....then maybe enough :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Tue, 11 December 2012, 17:55:25: I'm afraid it won't be double shot, engraved and in-filled is the best I can offer unless you want a platinum first and gold/silver second. Any preference on font? And would you like round or square windows?

;)

Seriously though, not doing double castings. The rest is all possible, for the right price.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Fri, 14 December 2012, 15:39:02: Appologies for the double post, but I thought you'd like to see pictures of the other two finishes. I'll update the OP while I'm here...

Brushed
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7750.jpg)

Beed blasted
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a258/supermanic/Keyboards/IMG_7778.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 14 December 2012, 15:51:30: not so keen on the brushed but the bead blasted looks cool i think i prefer standard though
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: dorkvader on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:00:36: The polished titanium looks really good, and I think polished silver looks best. Of the tow, I prefer bead blasted ofcourse.

I well certainly be getting of for BS, and possible cherry. Thank you very much for putting all the work into this.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Jupiter on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:46:14: Wow that bead blasted looks amazing. Wouldn't mind getting one for an Esc key or something.

This is one expensive hobby. So many nice things on these forums!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: razorsharpgears on Sun, 16 December 2012, 22:33:09: Quote from: Jupiter on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:46:14
Wow that bead blasted looks amazing. Wouldn't mind getting one for an Esc key or something.

This is one expensive hobby. So many nice things on these forums!
I agree these keycaps look amazing, and it also is an expensive hobby xD
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Shadovved on Sun, 16 December 2012, 22:42:47: Me likes the normal one :D

Germanium alloy please! :)) :))
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Mon, 17 December 2012, 13:56:15: Just a little not about the BS cap - the stem is to complex, and the differences in tensile elasticity between plastic and silver further precludes doing a single piece cap. So they'll be of the two part variety and once you put the parts together you'll need a spreader (scalpel ideal) to part them as - again - silver is stronger than plastic.

I don't know what alloy they use, simply that it's a "stain free" silver, it's quite likely that the geranium alloy won't work well for casting, there's almost certainly some silicon in there... besides, I thought you wanted fine :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Glissant on Mon, 17 December 2012, 19:22:58: Do I contact you directly for my pendant keycap, or will you be informing us when/if you are taking orders on those? I am really really really interested!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: DanGWanG on Mon, 17 December 2012, 23:46:21: The brushed finish looks like you scraped it across some barbed wire lol
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Tue, 18 December 2012, 12:29:10: Quote from: DanGWanG on Mon, 17 December 2012, 23:46:21
The brushed finish looks like you scraped it across some barbed wire lol

Shhhhh! Stop giving away trade secrets ;)

It's just polished up to 240 grit paper, then random strokes with 150 grit to give it the texture, I really like it - sometimes producing an even more brutalised appearance by repeatedly dragging the corner of a file across a piece producing a beautiful sinusoidal finish.

I might get a diamond tip for my hammer hand-piece and offer a stippled finish too, though that'd probably be best on the top only... thinking about it, perhaps not - it's a b**** to clean without resorting to dipping in acid...

Quote from: Glissant on Mon, 17 December 2012, 19:22:58
Do I contact you directly for my pendant keycap, or will you be informing us when/if you are taking orders on those? I am really really really interested!

There's going to be an "any other comments" or some such in the ordering phase, for variations, additions, and etcetera so you can just put it down there, even include a link to an image if you like.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Shadovved on Tue, 18 December 2012, 21:41:51: Yeap fine is fine by me.

Pun intended ;D ;D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: cobraj on Thu, 27 December 2012, 03:33:03: Wow
That looks amazing.
This is why I can never save money.
I am keen.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheGrey on Thu, 27 December 2012, 17:13:27: I love the brushed key
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: rekanise on Sat, 29 December 2012, 18:32:35: omg want them all
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: snoopy on Sun, 30 December 2012, 10:31:47: I'm interested in a polished one for BS :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sun, 30 December 2012, 11:37:24: A quick update for you all then - I have cast a wax model of each key and I'll be posting them out on Saturday to arrive in Birmingham on Monday. I'm sure that there'll be a mass of stuff waiting for them due to the christmas/new-year break, so I probably won't get them back in silver for a fortnight.

Following that I'll get one of each finish on them and photograph them together, this'll make it much easier to compare the differences than having different pictures in different lighting conditions.

Oh and I just finished a spoon, it's very cool.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Sun, 30 December 2012, 11:56:55: Awesome! I patiently await cufflinks.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Glissant on Sun, 30 December 2012, 12:08:40: Great news! Can't wait to get my hands on your work :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: rekanise on Sun, 30 December 2012, 15:05:13: awesome! cant wait for it to be available for purchase!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Shadovved on Sun, 30 December 2012, 15:12:32: Me too!

Im still waiting for my gold cap! :p :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Magnusian on Mon, 31 December 2012, 00:32:36: Bead blasted for buckling spring please!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: KuhnTang on Mon, 31 December 2012, 01:34:43: Posting so that I can follow this thread and see when these go up for sale.

this has probably already been discussed, but I've had silver before, and it oxidizes very quickly, but is easy to shine right back up. Are the brushed keys easy to return to to luster?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sat, 05 January 2013, 13:58:45: Another delay I'm afraid... apparently, the post office only work until 12:00 on Saturdays. Part timers! So the wax castings will be going out in the post on Monday (two days hence) morning instead of Saturday (today) afternoon. Other than that everything's looking good.

The more textured the key, the more difficult it will be to polish - the company I use for casting have a "stain free" silver and also cast in fine silver (pure silver, no copper) which should either need far (far, far, far) less frequent polishing or no polishing.

I'm thinking cuff-links may come post caps simply to avoid any further delays. I can always post up instructions on how to make your own out of a few sacrificed stems...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Glissant on Sat, 05 January 2013, 14:23:36: Every time I see an update from you, asura, my wallet screams in pain xD
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sat, 05 January 2013, 16:27:41: No, your desires scream in pain, your wallet says a prayer of thanks :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: seferphier on Sun, 06 January 2013, 06:54:29: this looks awesome
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: gojira54 on Sun, 06 January 2013, 08:46:03: This looks amazing, I'm in for one :)
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: BlindRAGE606 on Sun, 06 January 2013, 08:53:18: In for a Topre Fn key -polished, if you're making!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Shadovved on Sun, 06 January 2013, 08:54:29: COME ON.

MAKE ME A SILVER KEYSET!

*and it shall be more expensive than longwallet's scarface caps!* :p :p
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sun, 06 January 2013, 14:49:08: I do plan on doing all rows, both MX profiles and most/all unit widths. But I won't be complete any time soon - the good news is that IBM buckling spring rows are all the same profile, so IBM owners can get a whole set (of two part caps) of one unit keys from the outset, the rest of you will have to be patient.

I'll speed up after this first round, part of the delay is simply that I'm pacing the manufacturing to match the gubbins at the back - i.e. I work seven days a week in December and therefore haven't been to the bank so I'm not yet set up to take on line payment etcetera.

In other news, The_Ed you'll be over-joyed, thick walled Cherry only - the 0.8mm wall didn't produce consistent waxes either, for some reason, and I can't be bothered to make another (lazy boy!) so there will only be five profiles to choose from; MX OEM, MX Cherry, ALPS, Topre, BS.

I'm not entirely decided which keys to make next, my thoughts are either just drop down a row (so Cherry's row D [that being QWERTYU etcetera]) or to start on modifiers, 1.5 / 1.25 row A and whatever is appropriate to other switch types.

Thoughts gentlemen and ladies?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: snoopy on Sun, 06 January 2013, 15:03:54: Where's the order form? :D

Lookin' forward to the BS ones!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 06 January 2013, 17:06:29: Thicker is always better.

By the way, are you doing 3 rib or 4 rib?

(Acanthophis's pic shows the difference)

(http://i.imgur.com/mxdVK.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sun, 06 January 2013, 17:41:55: 0 rib!

mkawa's picture (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24794081/_DSC9387.JPG)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Motan22 on Sun, 06 January 2013, 18:37:26: Dropping in to comment on your prototype sterling silver keycaps; they look superb asura.

I have just received my first mechanical keyboard, a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry MX blues and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

Patiently awaiting to grab a polished MX OEM keycap. I think my descent into keyboard madness has begun!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: The_Ed on Sun, 06 January 2013, 21:27:57: ...But I thought you said for the thick cherry profile you were going to make a mold from a cherry cap, which would thus have ribs...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Mon, 07 January 2013, 06:33:22: Yes it's from a thick cherry cap but I ripped its insides up a bit - to make the prongs adjustable + I already have a 30% failure rate with the stems as-is and with the thinner curved sections that could only rise. The ribs and rounded connected parts of the stems are there because the plastic is brittle; silver isn't so they're redundant.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: rek55 on Mon, 07 January 2013, 09:27:34: A silver cast key... excessive, but in a way that I greatly approve of! :D
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 03:46:11: Quick update before work; the Sterling silver keys are cast, the fine silver is being cast today, they'll be posted out on Monday arriving Tuesday/Wednesday and I can start cleaning them up Thursday-Sunday. And hopefully final photos on Monday.

The bank - when I went in, couldn't see me straight away, and couldn't make an appointment for me either. I've had to leave my phone number and am currently awaiting a callback to make an appointment for some unknown point in the future... all fun and games till somebody looses an eye...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 10 January 2013, 03:52:36: Needs some caps 3 row 4 to start maybe?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:17:30: Quote from: asura on Thu, 15 November 2012, 17:41:31
As a brief introduction; I’m a product of the times, I graduated with a Masters degree in Architecture in Scotland a few weeks before this headline (http://archiseek.com/2009/one-third-of-architects-laid-off-in-last-year-survey-finds/#.UKVsmYdtbKc) add to this an unwillingness to move out of my immediate area for work and I'm suddenly pretty much unemployable in my area of study.

Don't worry there are a whole lot of us who were trained in Universities that never ended up working in their chosen field of expertise. Hence the dilemma, adapt to the situation at hand or go hungry.

Quote from: asura on Thu, 15 November 2012, 17:41:31
So I fall back on my weekend/summer job – only unlike so many of my cohort this isn’t bar work, or waiting tables. I make jewellery, I always hesitate to call myself a jeweller as I have no formal training, but I've been doing it on and off for about eighteen years so I'm fairly competent in what I'm doing.

Some of the BEST works of Art are by so called 'Amateurs'. Because they do it purely for the love of it and nothing else, their work is often of the highest quality.

Good that you've decided to branch out and produce something that others appreciate. I hope you sell them for at least $200 a cap. Stuff like this should never go for $50 or $100 because it means you don't value your skills. Because to me they are worth far more than any plastic Click Clack that was ever made thus far.

Can't wait to see the Silver turn dark green with slightly different colourations because Silver ages beautifully in it's natural state with no polishing.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Elrick on Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:39:41: Quote from: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 03:46:11
The bank - when I went in, couldn't see me straight away, and couldn't make an appointment for me either. I've had to leave my phone number and am currently awaiting a callback to make an appointment for some unknown point in the future... all fun and games till somebody looses an eye...

Umm if you are looking for a handout from the bank (that's what I'm presuming, I may of course be seriously wrong) please be aware these parasites won't lift a finger in handing out any money.

Mainly because you just started a NEW venture, unless you've started other businesses that have turned over a minimum of $100,000 per year or you have lots of saleable assets for the bank to grab if your venture goes Kaput. In the end you have to go it alone, because Banks are what destroyed many countries throughout the World today.

I know you need equipment and what not, but the safest place to play around with melting/wax casting is enrolling in a school that trains people in the art of casting and finishing. The good thing about that is you will have access to FREE ovens, pits, wax molding equipment. Hence you can seriously turn out a large number of caps for the addicts on here, and get a qualification to boot.

Although I have no idea what the Scottish system for training and education is like or if you need vast sums of money to enroll like in the United States.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 12:06:21: Oh I don't need money from the bank, just a business account rather than a personal account - I'll be fronting the costs for the first batch myself, then after that it'll just keep itself rolling.

Equipment is also a non-issue as I already have wax, an injector, and all the associated paraphernalia as well as a fairly complete jobbing jewellers workshop; lamps, clamps, punches, blocks, drills, burrs and a twin-spindle... hammers, gravers, silks, pickle, barrelling, media and bullion... mandrels, books, picks, tweezers, pliers, saws and blades... files, papers, diamond grits, scalpels, scribes, burnishers and scrapers... etcetera...

As to the cost - these aren't works of art, those are to come later. These are jewellery manufacture and I'm treating them as such, oh they won't be cheep, but they'll be affordable. And they won't be exclusive. Anyone who can afford one can have one, to keep costs down I'll be doing them in runs. For example, if you miss out on row-E now, then when I do row-D you can get D's and E's; when I do C's - E's and D's will be available too.

I will be doing short runs, but they'll (mostly) also be repeating. There will be fewer of them simply because they'll be more complex and expensive.

And I'll be taking orders for one off commissions. However, those are both for the future.

To study jewellery properly I'd need to move a couple of hundred miles; no big deal in general but would involve loosing what architectural work I have/get, moving the shop and loosing fifteen years of goodwill, make my girlfriend a train journey away and double (or more) my living costs. And I wouldn't learn anything new till year three...
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: gojira54 on Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:46:15: >they'll be affordable. And they won't be exclusive

I like your business model :)
In for one for sure!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: snoopy on Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:56:56: In for four :)
Title: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: imersa on Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:58:28: In
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:36:18: I seriously cannot wait, even though I'll have to wait for cufflinks:

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/5423870.jpg)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:37:19: Why is Zoidberg on the telephone?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Thu, 10 January 2013, 16:41:16: Because I'll take eight! It's crafty consumer zoidberg.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:06:00: Ahh... another POP culture failure for me.

DIY cuff-links should be easy enough... let me think for a minute...

OK! Here's my ten stage DIY Cherry MX cuff-links

1 get four stems.
2 cut one up, all we want is the cruciform and the flat "top" which will become the bottom
3 drill two 0.3mm holes diagonally opposite each other on the bottom as close to the centre of the cruciform as possible and countersink them to 0.5mm
4 get a bit of 0.3mm round wire a soft metal such as silver, copper, or aluminium will work best - I guess about 5mm but you'll have to experiment and bend it into a horseshoe
5 get a short length of an open link chain (called a belcher for those that care) about 15-20mm and thread one end onto your wire horseshoe
6 stick the ends of the horseshoe through the holes and rivet the ends so that they will stay in place, I'd use a smear of epoxy glue at this stage too, applied sparingly into the holes before putting the wire through.
7 repeat stages two through three and thread the second horseshoe onto the free end of the chain and repeat stage six
8 repeat stages two through seven.
9 put the kettle on.
10 profit!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:07:05: And now I wait!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:16:24: Oh no, those are instructions for you the ones I make will be a silver stem, depending on how many want them they'll be (low demand) hand made from sheet and wire when I have some free time after the first round or (high demand) cast with R2.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Alessandro on Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:18:36: I don't actually want 8, I'll wait for silver stems thanks. :)
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:30:58: Go on, there's nothing like a bit of DIY... You could have a pair of double cuffs in about an hour and a half and this way only costs about five pounds to make! Here, I'll give you the condensed version.

Four stems, four cuts filed smooth, eight holes - countersunk, four hoops, two bits of chain and some glue. Simple!

Far easier than me having to hand fabricate them out of silver... cut out eight slotted rectangles from 1.3mm sheet, slot them together to produce four cruciforms and solder. Carefully file off excess solder and paper to 2000 grit. Link four jump-rings to the ends of two short lengths of belcher chain and solder rings to base of cruciform. Pickle and polish.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Tym on Thu, 10 January 2013, 17:42:01: I have to compliment you on your amazing and beautiful work, so far the only custom keys I have "made" are a batch I have had hydro-dipped and that involved me posting them of and waiting for the return, I would be very interested in buying one of these when you have them for sale, but the way my wallet is heading I will only be able to by half a key... :(

Good luck sir!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: GMC on Sun, 13 January 2013, 09:11:58: @Asura,

Any plans to do scoops?

G
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: djmattm on Sun, 13 January 2013, 09:30:32: Wow amazing! If the price is right for my poor college student pockets i'll surely be buying at least one!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Sun, 13 January 2013, 12:40:29: Scoops would be my preference, (as they're what I have on my pure) but scoops/dots/bars will be very late on, as any row-B key will still fit in the H/J position - thought about doing it with texture? Bright polished alpha's with sandblasted modifiers + H/J could be interesting...

Or I may just file down wax tops and build up underneath, dots are very easy to add, and just not do bars... no new mould needed at all...

It's two rounds distant anyway; no hurry :))
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Tue, 15 January 2013, 07:20:23: So it's one of those good news / bad news moments. I sent down ten waxes; BS, Topre, MX Cherry thick, MX OEM, ALPS, and five non-keycap related items.

I got back MX Cherry thick minus one stem, MX OEM deformed with a "dent" on the front, the ALPS is about perfect, except that it'll need some thin paper/tape otherwise it'll come out too easily, and four non-keycap related items which are all fine.

After a quick call - the BS and Topre caps didn't cast uniformly, one complete side of the BS and the stem of the Topre simply weren't. And apparently the damage happened in the post... I somewhat doubt it, but not going to contest. Why is it never easy‽

And I shall have to cut open a few waxes, as apparently the OEM (cast in fine silver) is heavy, I know I added a drop of wax to the inside of the top to improve the flow into the sides (not something I can do with BS, so...) but I didn't think it would have such a massive effect, so it's something I must check out. Equally it is considerably bigger than the Cherry key it's sitting next to...

I'll get them cleaned up and finished (pre-hallmark) and post pictures as soon as I'm done. And I'll add some internal spruing to a Topre and BS cap and see if they have any more joy that way, or I may just try someone else...

More delays, oh the joy!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: djmattm on Tue, 15 January 2013, 07:24:46: Take your time, don't rush, we patiently wait!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 15 January 2013, 07:30:47: I'm just glad to see things are coming along. Snags in things are almost always inevitable. I look forward to the finished product though!
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: The_Ed on Tue, 26 February 2013, 00:52:46: Whatever happened to this?... Any progress? Or is this idea scrapped?
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: asura on Mon, 04 March 2013, 16:12:54: Life - it's a wonderful thing...

Not scrapped (like the pun though) I've just been too busy with work during the day and evening, and spending more time with my partner in the evenings and at night.

I will be using someone else for casting, reason? The pre-forming cut (80-fine diamond paper) showed up some cast porosity in two of the three keys, that's a bad ratio, to fix it requires drilling a hole through the fissure inserting a piece of wire of the corresponding diameter, soldering it in place, and cleaning it up - far from ideal and the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid.

I've now got a sprewed up Topre and BS key ready to send to a second casting company, hoping for better results, once I get them back we'll see how things go.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Ziggy4H on Mon, 27 June 2016, 10:49:41: I am replying to this thread to see if anyone is still interested in these caps. I have made a few for myself and want to know how interested people are in them.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: misconceit on Tue, 28 June 2016, 06:22:59: Quote from: Ziggy4H on Mon, 27 June 2016, 10:49:41
I am replying to this thread to see if anyone is still interested in these caps. I have made a few for myself and want to know how interested people are in them.
It's a really old thread I doubt anyone remember..
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Photekq on Tue, 28 June 2016, 06:24:37: Quote from: Ziggy4H on Mon, 27 June 2016, 10:49:41
I am replying to this thread to see if anyone is still interested in these caps. I have made a few for myself and want to know how interested people are in them.
Ziggy4H,

I'm sure everyone would love to see some pictures! I'd recommend you make a new thread for your caps though, since this one is pretty old.
Title: Re: [IC] Sterling Silver KeyCaps - row E + BS + Alps + Topre!
Post by: Ziggy4H on Thu, 30 June 2016, 07:15:53: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83096.0 (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=83096.0)

New Topic in the Interest Check