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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Kaysa on Sun, 25 November 2012, 07:22:23

Title: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Sun, 25 November 2012, 07:22:23

been using my Realforce for a couple of months now, I start to notice there is some rattling sound when I lightly tap the spacebar(non-actuating).
I m not sure does it have this noise at first...... didn't really pay attention to it at the beginning.
is that normal? is there a way to silent it out? it is a silent model after all.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: longweight on Sun, 25 November 2012, 07:26:17

My HHKB also does this which is a bit annoying!

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: TotalChaos on Sun, 25 November 2012, 08:33:38

If it was me, I would try putting an EK Landing Pad in there and see if that works.

If that doesn't work then put in a WASD O-Ring and see if that helps.

I don't really know how the stabilizers are configured on a Topre spacebar so I just throw u these ideas for free  :)

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Sun, 25 November 2012, 20:36:17

Quote from: TotalChaos on Sun, 25 November 2012, 08:33:38

If it was me, I would try putting an EK Landing Pad in there and see if that works.

If that doesn't work then put in a WASD O-Ring and see if that helps.

I don't really know how the stabilizers are configured on a Topre spacebar so I just throw u these ideas for free  :)

where exactly do you put the O-ring or landing pad?
on the stem of the key or the switch?

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Sun, 25 November 2012, 20:37:01

Quote from: longweight on Sun, 25 November 2012, 07:26:17

My HHKB also does this which is a bit annoying!

but my HHKB is better, at least not as loud...

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: metalliqaz on Sun, 25 November 2012, 20:40:00

Mine does that too.  I have the wonderful silenced Topre switches but the spacebar stabilizers are still noisy. :(

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: MMB on Sun, 25 November 2012, 20:47:32

Rattles on HHKB's, too.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: AKIMbO on Sun, 25 November 2012, 20:49:53

My RF uniform 55g doesn't rattle like in your video.  Yes, it's a little louder than other keys when you lightly tap it...but it doesn't rattle like your's does. 

Edit: I should mention my RF is barely used, but my RF 45g uniform didn't exhibit that rattle either.  Have you tried taking apart the RF?  Isn't the stabilizer mechanism underneath the metal plate...I'd rip it apart and check to see if anything is loose underneath that metal plate.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sun, 25 November 2012, 20:51:02

It doesn't happen on my Realforce 87U.

On the HHKB Pro 2 the spacebar is quite noisy though but not like that.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Mon, 26 November 2012, 11:51:27

can every one upload a video and we can compare each to others?

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 26 November 2012, 13:03:45

OMG, n00bs. Use a HIGH viscosity lube. that'll teach the rattle who's boss.  >:D

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Hyde on Mon, 26 November 2012, 16:08:50

I don't know about topre, but in my cherry mx board it does that a tiny bit too.  Basically because the spacebar is held on 3 joints.  The left stabilizer, the mx switch, then the right stabilizer.

The key is held in place by the mx switch and the stabilizer kind of "supports" it from left and right side, but usually it leaves a bit of room won't be perfectly tight.  So it can tilt either to the right or left a little bit until it hits the stabilizer joint and stops moving.

Like tp4tissue said adding lube on the stabilized joint will help.  As it kind of cushions the stabilizer clip (metal) hitting the stabilizer clip (plastic), and it slows down the impact a tiny bit.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: sth on Mon, 26 November 2012, 16:44:29

ugh great FILCO PING ROUND 2

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: daerid on Mon, 26 November 2012, 17:03:37

My 45g 87U has a bit of a rattly spacebar, but I'll be honest: I like it.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: khaangaaroo on Mon, 26 November 2012, 19:43:36

Is your spacebar missing the spring underneath the center stem? It shouldn't make that much of a difference in sound, but there should be a spring there that none of the other keys have.

The sound is probably coming from the two stabilizer stems. They work similarly to Costar stabilizers, but the metal bar is beneath the plate. It would require taking the board apart to get to them.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Mon, 26 November 2012, 20:03:38

wonder how the lube work, and how to apply and where to get, which one to get,
but after I contact the seller, he told me to put the spring below the spacebar to its "original middle" position,
the rattling sound is reduced a lot, the spring might've went astray when I changing the keycaps.

but still some rattling sound, so I would like to try the lube option,
can someone tell me where to, how to, what to........ Lube.
any animated tutorial would be greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: metalliqaz on Mon, 26 November 2012, 22:49:48

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 26 November 2012, 13:03:45

OMG, n00bs. Use a HIGH viscosity lube. that'll teach the rattle who's boss.  >:D

In other words... fill it with gunk until you can't hear it anymore.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Tue, 27 November 2012, 00:25:53

Quote from: tp4tissue on Mon, 26 November 2012, 13:03:45

OMG, n00bs. Use a HIGH viscosity lube. that'll teach the rattle who's boss.  >:D

... is that how you do it? any video tutorial?

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Mon, 10 December 2012, 02:51:17

[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
got myself this grease for the problem.....
but not too confident to apply it yet... :-[

the item seem old even part of the container are tarnishing to yellowish already. :(
But the grease are not leaking off all these years, (as no oil sipping out of the container)
nor melting the plastic container (seem to me like the container are ABS type of plastic it is)...
the contain inside are still quite sticking it seem, no precipitate nor separate of cream and oil.....

the problem is that I do not know if it is silicone base or lithium base or is it harmful to the plastic of keyboard parts...
thou the container top mention that: multi purpose grease, lubrication between metal and rubber amd plastic specialist for gear, material from U.S.A.

struggling to apply it or not... and how, exactly?
anyone recognize this type of grease? and is it necessary to apply on the stabilizer?

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: BossBorot on Mon, 10 December 2012, 04:00:22

Quote from: sth on Mon, 26 November 2012, 16:44:29

ugh great FILCO PING ROUND 2

the winter of thonk

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: hasu on Mon, 10 December 2012, 09:33:46

I used Shimano dura ace cup grease which maybe is 20 years old on stabilizers and it looks like no problem at this time.

I guess Campagnolo grease will work way better.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Sun, 16 December 2012, 12:43:34

I've applied the lube on the stabilizer's stem and "hole" part,
doesn't make improve much I would say,
but not worsening any bit neither.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: hasu on Sun, 16 December 2012, 18:39:46

Though I don't care about this rattle I also applied lub into hole and noticed it mitigates the rattling a bit but doesn't solve completely. Anyway YMMV.
You need more grease?

I used TAMIYA grease this time :)
(http://i.imgur.com/xiZ2Dl.jpg)

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: thegunner100 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:07:09

Ping! Or i  guess it's Thonk! now.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:15:02

Quote from: hasu on Sun, 16 December 2012, 18:39:46

Though I don't care about this rattle I also applied lub into hole and noticed it mitigates the rattling a bit but doesn't solve completely. Anyway YMMV.
You need more grease?

I used TAMIYA grease this time :)

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/xiZ2Dl.jpg)

what's the YMMV?

what in the photo you post seem like the ctrl key on the Realforce when it first come in,
they applied plenty of grease below the key around the plunger, I wonder why.

Quote from: thegunner100 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:07:09

Ping! Or i  guess it's Thonk! now.

... w ...What?

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: daerid on Mon, 17 December 2012, 00:09:52

YMMV = Your mileage may vary

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Thu, 01 August 2013, 22:19:36

(http://i.imgur.com/ah1SkGV.jpg) (http://imgur.com/ah1SkGV)
(http://i.imgur.com/4oHIMbD.jpg) (http://imgur.com/4oHIMbD)
(http://i.imgur.com/AGiaOhM.jpg) (http://imgur.com/AGiaOhM)

I have finally have time to take apart my RF to inspect the spacebar to see what is the cause of the loud sound,
and I found that the stabilizer's housing is shaky in all direction, include up down, left right and top bottom....

so I decide to try to make it more secured on plate by sticking some 3M tape on plate,
decide to use 3M tape simply because it is easy reversible, no harm to plastic nor metal plate, nor even the paint on the plate...

So I tried to apply some tape on it, and immediately found that it is not enough with only one layer.
I try more layers on to try secure the stabilizer's housing... and actually one of the side needed less than the other,
one of the side I put 2 layers, but the other side, I applied 4 layers..

Any way, the spacebar is now much more quiet, compare to the first video on the first post here.

Hope this will help out those who think the sound is annoying.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 01 August 2013, 23:06:43

think of the rattling as "personality

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Macsmasher on Fri, 02 August 2013, 01:57:59

Quote from: tp4tissue on Thu, 01 August 2013, 23:06:43

think of the rattling as "personality

That type of "personality" shouldn't be present in a $300 keyboard. I'm normally not that AR, but the rattle bothered me so much that I gave my 87U variable silent to my son. To me, it's like having a piano with one key way out of tune. Kind of ruins the music. But then, I'm probably a bit eccentric. I'm one of those guys who frequent YouTube just to listen to the sound of different keyboards. A nice keyboard is music to my ears. :D

My daily driver now is an 87U 55 uni and it doesn't have the same problem, but it's about five months newer. Maybe they made some stabilizer changes in the newer versions.

Title: Re: Realforce rattling spacebars.
Post by: Kaysa on Fri, 02 August 2013, 03:19:31

Also I find that when you put the spacebar on the Topre Switch, the stabilizer's stem can fit into it's hole easily, but the round one in the middle is harder to fit in to the plunger's hole....
When I put it on when the PCB is detached, I found that the key's stem is not completely fit into the plunger...
I press on the other side of the plunger (under the plate) to snap the key stem into the plunger...

..... did any one know what I mean this part?

apart from what I found about the sound making stabilizer's housing,
there is a reply to one of my video regarding this problem,
he suggest me to put some sponge under the spacebar, which I did,
and it work even better now!