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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: cgbuen on Tue, 04 December 2012, 01:19:01
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Sort of a part two to this old thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36485.0
I understand that the differences between vintage blacks and modern blacks might be negligible, and even moreso between vintage blacks and "pseudo"-vintage blacks (switches from old boards that don't have the bigass type). To me, both kinds of old black switches feel pretty much exactly the same, and both feel the slightest bit different from a modern linear, though I admit it could all be in my head. So as a disclaimer, I realize that this is probably a ridiculous question to ask, but it's worth a shot anyway - I'm curious to know if there's a way to differentiate all three kinds from the stems alone.
From a very very small sample size (less than 25 because I'm slow as hell and don't have very good tools to open switches yet), drawn from a couple different WYSE boards, here's a few notes I've gathered:
- I've noticed that these vintage/pseudo-vintage stems have a pair of numbers - a one-digit and a two-digit - printed a couple of times on the backside: the flat rectangular part, and then the same numbers split between the backside-visible portions of the +-section. Unfortunately I don't have a good enough camera to capture such tiny numbers.
- A couple of modern non-slider stems I've checked (a number of clears and a single red - unfortunately don't have any modern blacks to check this on) don't have these numbers on the same side.
- I'm like 8-out-of-8 on seeing the one-digit number as 5 on the stems that came from "bigass" type switch housing, and about 10-out-of-11 on seeing something other than the number 5 on other housings.
- At this point of the night, I can't see anything else that really differentiates stems.
Thoughts? Am I wasting a ton of time pondering this? :))
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Judging by the number of responses, I guess the answer to my question is yes :p Anyone have any vintage and regular stems they can check?
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I'll try to remember to check mine when I'm home on Sunday.
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I'll be desoldering a bunch of vintage blacks this weekend. I also have some modern PCB mount blacks, and I will remove those stems to compare and let you know the results.
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The main thing I notice, on vintage black the legs that press the crosspoint contact have a slight less angle to them so they have a bit less resistance. I also believe the plastic composition may be different, but I don't have the means to test that theory. I also have some M8, and those are also really damn nice and fully compatible with MX as they were the direct predecessor and were nearly identical in design. They are also linear and came in white and black variants with different spring. Black M8 is pretty much same as vintage MX black, and white which is lighter but a bit heavier than red. I'm always looking for more of those white M8, they are just about perfect.
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Just been looking at over a dozen vintage blacks. The single digit ones always have a 'w' and then a number. Mostly 4, but also 3 and 8, maybe more. And for double digits, most are numbers in the 50s or 70s and one in the 60s.
All these switches were from one board. A grass valley video editing board. Cherry part no.G-7027, and a cherry stamp with the number 8933 on the backside.
The other interesting part, every stem, not the housing, is discolored to almost blue.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/16/qujutu3u.jpg)
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Update: Just got a few modern blacks in the mail from The_Ed (thanks!), and I was able to capture a few shots on my phone camera. I've only taken shots of the same two stems, but these are the patterns I've been seeing across all the moderns and both the vintages and "pseudo-"vintages I have.
(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/modern-vintage-01-diagram.jpg)
(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/modern-vintage-02.jpg)
(http://assets.christopherbuenaventura.com/img/keyboards/modern-vintage-03.jpg)
Just occurred to me while posting this that I didn't take any comparison shots of the contact points from a side view, but looking at them I can't really tell.. I may take shots of them at a later time.
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I don't think the blacks I sent you were modern... They were from my 3700. And damn those switches arrived fast.
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http://i.imgur.com/5wQqL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PpFn7.jpg
i have this wyse board lying around, i'll take a more in-depth look at it some time tomorrow after the balvenie doublewood has finished coursing through my veins ;000000
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Perhaps I'm wrong in making this assumption, but the blacks I got felt modern "enough" - maybe your 3700 was a revision recent enough (mid/late 90s maybe?) to have some of these newer blacks since the housing does look identical to other modern housing, since they didn't look like any of these. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38921.0) It also had the same slightly sandy texture that are on some new linears (i.e. a red switch I had lying around, and my Rosewill with reds I recently got).
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Those housings are from 7bit's switchbuy... The stems and springs are from my 3700. They were buttery smooth when they were in my 3700, but became a bit scratchy when I put them into those new housings.
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Top housing wouldn't effect feeling, or shouldn't, bottom half could though if change in plastics theory is true.
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There was lube in the blacks, so since the new housings didn't have lube in them it was scratchier. At least that's how I see it, the cherry lube is the difference.
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Been playing around with different combinations over the past two days, and The_Ed may be on to something. The smoothness of "vintage blacks" might not be the stem at all but the housing they're in.. I need a larger sample size to test this out though.
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Anyone know if there's any consistency with Cherry lubing their own switches? I noticed that the brand new Clears I bought had a tiny bit of lube at the lower most point of the leaf contacts, while I lubed the housing contacts myself. I had never seen this in any other switches nor the Browns from the Poker I was switching out.
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Cherry lubes the bumps on the sides of the crosspoint, and the rails that touch them on the stem. They do this on all their MX switches. Older blacks have more lube, and it is possibly a different kind than on newer switches.