geekhack

geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:28:17

Title: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:28:17
Just browsing through a couple of tech news blogs and every comment about Windows 8 is OHHH IT'S SO BAD OHHH IT'S SO DIFFERENT METRO SUCKS WIN8 SUCKS WIN7/XP FOR LYFE!


They're basically the same damn OS. If you really can't figure out the new start menu (takes literally 3 minutes because it's just the old start menu but in tile form instead of list form and with the charms on the right (as selected by moving to top or bottom right corner) instead of the power button/control panel))

Literally the only gripe I have about Win8 is that It's not as efficient to get to your "Computer" (IE the file explorer) if you don't know that winkey+e will take you right there. Easily fixed with a shortcut on your desktop (Winkey+e, drag and drop "Computer" onto desktop)

So where's all the flak coming from? IE10 is a solid improvement over IE9, which was already at least comparable with firefox and chrome (and easier to maintenance since it has a simple reset button instead of having to navigate to an obscure file folder and delete/rename it) Windows 8 is probably just as efficient if not moreso than Windows 7 as it seems to start, shutdown and basically perform just as well if not faster.

Thus far the only main reasons I can find for people moaning about Windows 8 are as thus follows

"I haven't tried it, but

1. I don't like the look of metro (sic) and tiles are dumb and bad for mouse

2. My freind said it was (going to be, if before release) bad, so it must be.

3. It's the odd in the even/odd release of windows , and since 2000 and vista sucked and XP and 7 are good, this one MUST be bad.

So i'm not going to use it."

Odd that it comes from the same people running around calling anybody with an iPod "iSheep" (I don't much care for Apple as a corporation or thier business practices, but I can see the appeal of some of their products, although I find them to closed to own myself) when all they are doing is parroting what everyone else is saying.

\rant
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:29:14
If there is something to complain about, people will complain.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:31:53
If there is something to complain about, people will complain.

Trickle down complainomics.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:35:47
It's also cool to bash new windows releases.  I'm fairly certain it's a geek commandment at this point.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Dgsbllx on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:51:32
It's also cool to bash new windows releases.  I'm fairly certain it's a geek commandment at this point.

Too true. I know a guy that still uses XP claiming its the best but he is yet to use any of the others? Then moans when he can't play games due to direct x etc. Jokers.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Hyde on Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:54:42
I personally haven't try it yet.  But a few people mentioned that every other windows sucks.  And it's proven by history.

Since window 7 is good so people based on that logic that windows 8 must suck, though windows 9 will be good.

LOL though like I said I haven't try window 8 yet  :P
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 05 December 2012, 14:13:09
Migrating to a new OS is painful.

About once every 5 years is often enough for me, and I stayed with XP for something like 8 years.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 14:36:10
Migrating to a new OS is painful.

Maybe that's part of it. Not the OS itself but the actual transition.

I personally don't keep anything on my install drive that I couldn't immediately download again (got a second HDD for data) so reinstalls and other wipes take less than a day providing I have the parts.

I have to admit that I don't personally plan to upgrade to 8 myself, but having a machine at work and using it extensively, I see little to no difference between 7 and 8 besides a couple new tricks to using it. (Ironically, one of the things i'm having a hard time getting used to is that the keying a new folder isn't Alt+F N F anymore, it's Alt+H N)

I could understand if people were saying "There is no point in upgrading if you have 7" because I consider that true, but "Windows 8 SUCKS" is basically saying Windows 7 sucks because they are, for intents and purposes, pretty damn similar.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: swagpiratex on Wed, 05 December 2012, 14:39:28
Once you are able to distinguish between subjective and objective rationale then you will reach a state of awareness that will elucidate your question.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: nullstring on Wed, 05 December 2012, 14:40:03
There are a few new features in windows 8 that seemed nice, so I will probably upgrade.
I will, however, be disabling everything metro related.

Metro seems obviously not designed for a workstation environment
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 14:50:57
There are a few new features in windows 8 that seemed nice, so I will probably upgrade.
I will, however, be disabling everything metro related.

Metro seems obviously not designed for a workstation environment

That's the thing, though. I spend all day on the computer and only time I even see metro is when I start up and shut down (providing I dont' just slap the power button)

Pin the few programs you use on your task bar, stick a link on your desktop to My Computer or just use winkey+e and you can ignore the-interface-formerly-known-as-Metro all day long.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 05 December 2012, 15:09:49
Once you are able to distinguish between subjective and objective rationale then you will reach a state of awareness that will elucidate your question.

Elucidate is a properly good word.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 15:18:56
there is only one real problem I have with it, and its becasue MS assumes that no one pre-8 used the startmenu search option... which is basically how I navigate win7...

when using win8 you can use it pretty much in the same way except the whole screen is then filled with the search results instead of a small section of your screen, and then 'metro' apps are prioritsed over actual desktop applications.

The second problem I've had with it is actually digging into the options and trying to set it up to work how I'm used too, there are basically two sets of controls and options, desktop traditional win7 style and then metro options and settings, both are diffrent and neither really explain why or how.


If there was a way you could disable the new start menu and have the win7 one back, I'd happly upgrade, but it's just a move that would not benfit how I use my machine in anyway...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 05 December 2012, 15:31:40
Migrating to a new OS is painful.

I have to admit that I don't personally plan to upgrade to 8 myself, but having a machine at work and using it extensively, I see little to no difference between 7 and 8 besides a couple new tricks to using it. (Ironically, one of the things i'm having a hard time getting used to is that the keying a new folder isn't Alt+F N F anymore, it's Alt+H N)


i do new folders with win7 by ctrl+shift+n, maybe windows 8 has that too. (can't test out windows 8 anymore, wife couldn't stand it so i had to reinstall windows 7)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Wildcard on Wed, 05 December 2012, 15:46:29
I was using Win8 very early in the dev preview and kept thinking, Microsoft are you serious with this? Yes, there are some nice updates as with most new releases, however, this feels so wrong in so many ways. Unless there was some super secret plan to introduce a new input device that would revolutionize the desktop PC, I was pretty sure this release was going to be a big kick against Microsoft. Unless the plan is to give everyone "gorilla arm" (real term look it up), the mouse and keyboard are still integral to the modern desktop setup. I do like the use with a convertible laptop, but the OS should configure itself on install to match your hardware. No touchscreen input = no metro.

I'm f'ing tired of feeling like a beta tester for Windows with these bad releases. They need to do their market research before introducing a new product.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 05 December 2012, 15:56:34
I suppose that technically, apple had this out a few years ago, but this seems like a good indicator of what they were streamlining it for:

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/promotions/touch-collection?pcid=10335
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 05 December 2012, 15:58:55
Talking about that search (which I almost never use in Win 7), it struck me that Windows apps install a lot of crap.  Each folder in the start menu has at least 2, usually half a dozen or so, entries).  It would be near impossible to provide that as one list.

Compare that to OS X, where there is an Applications icon on the Dock.  Click it, and you get a single alphabetical list of application icons.  Each application has one icon.  There are a couple of folders, like Utilities, to group utility apps that people might not use every day.

So me that is just so much simpler and easier to use and to find apps.  Plus I on the Mac I can click once to open Applications, and once again on the app's icon.

With Windows it is Start - All Programs, then the app's folder, then try to select the right app shortcut from there.  Or take my hand off the mouse, lose focus, and type in the search field.

If Win 8 contianues that Microsoft trend, I will continue to prefer the alternatives.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:01:50
Talking about that search (which I almost never use in Win 7), it struck me that Windows apps install a lot of crap.  Each folder in the start menu has at least 2, usually half a dozen or so, entries).  It would be near impossible to provide that as one list.

Compare that to OS X, where there is an Applications icon on the Dock.  Click it, and you get a single alphabetical list of application icons.  Each application has one icon.  There are a couple of folders, like Utilities, to group utility apps that people might not use every day.

So me that is just so much simpler and easier to use and to find apps.  Plus I on the Mac I can click once to open Applications, and once again on the app's icon.

With Windows it is Start - All Programs, then the app's folder, then try to select the right app shortcut from there.  Or take my hand off the mouse, lose focus, and type in the search field.

If Win 8 contianues that Microsoft trend, I will continue to prefer the alternatives.

use search, its by far the best way to find programs and use the OS as a whole, winkey+progname = easy
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:03:04
Talking about that search (which I almost never use in Win 7), it struck me that Windows apps install a lot of crap.  Each folder in the start menu has at least 2, usually half a dozen or so, entries).  It would be near impossible to provide that as one list.

Compare that to OS X, where there is an Applications icon on the Dock.  Click it, and you get a single alphabetical list of application icons.  Each application has one icon.  There are a couple of folders, like Utilities, to group utility apps that people might not use every day.

So me that is just so much simpler and easier to use and to find apps.  Plus I on the Mac I can click once to open Applications, and once again on the app's icon.

With Windows it is Start - All Programs, then the app's folder, then try to select the right app shortcut from there.  Or take my hand off the mouse, lose focus, and type in the search field.

If Win 8 contianues that Microsoft trend, I will continue to prefer the alternatives.

Done right, the new start menu is fairly similar to how apple does things. Start->click app tile.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:04:16
I personally think that the taskbar/start button makes windows so much more powerful and easier to navigate than anyother OS, but MS seem more interested in having everyone use touch screens, even, on a full desktop machine...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:05:35
Sounds like Windows 8 might be a small step forwards then.  I have not tried it yet, nor am I in a position to for now.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:10:05
I personally think that the taskbar/start button makes windows so much more powerful and easier to navigate than anyother OS, but MS seem more interested in having everyone use touch screens, even, on a full desktop machine...

All-in-ones with touch seem to be at least moderately popular.

Additionally, cell phones and tablets kinda indicate a slight market for them. 
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:17:05
I personally think that the taskbar/start button makes windows so much more powerful and easier to navigate than anyother OS, but MS seem more interested in having everyone use touch screens, even, on a full desktop machine...

All-in-ones with touch seem to be at least moderately popular.

Additionally, cell phones and tablets kinda indicate a slight market for them. 

I agree, which is why I think that there needs to be a tickbox or something to enable the old startmenu back, if thats what you want/how you use your machine... like how XP had a way you could make it look and feel exactally like win98...

...win8 is a downgrade in terms of being able to use a windows machine on a desktop quickly becasue of how it priorites 'apps' and how it ignoors your desktop...

People have been using the docked icon approach becasue windows icons and the start menu as a whole is bad... instead of making all that **** bigger and easier for touch screens they should have actually addressed the problem... all they have done with 8 is changed the problem...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:24:37
...you removed your post it seems :/

but it commands the tablet market with a smartphone OS... MS is going the other route, which instead of limiting what the tablet can do, it limits the desktop experiance...

that said, the tablet market isn't one I understand at all... I don't get why you'd buy something so big thats a poor middle ground between an actual laptop you can work on, and a phone you can carry everywhere in your pocket, but hey, thats just me..
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:33:46
I personally haven't try it yet.  But a few people mentioned that every other windows sucks.  And it's proven by history.
That's a pile of excrement that's been repeated ad nauseum by mouthbreathers in response to Windows 8, basically. I don't know what columnist or forum poster started the bandwagon rolling, but no-one ever said this about Windows prior to like a year ago tops, and no-one with any credibility has ever said it, and it's blatant nonsense in general.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Lanx on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:37:18
touch is stupid on a desktop, i'm leaning back on my 24in monitor, i don't want to sit up to "touch" anything. Now if they incorporate a kinect into windows 8 and i can swipe that way, it might be useful.

I personally haven't try it yet.  But a few people mentioned that every other windows sucks.  And it's proven by history.
That's a pile of excrement that's been repeated ad nauseum by mouthbreathers in response to Windows 8, basically. I don't know what columnist or forum poster started the bandwagon rolling, but no-one ever said this about Windows prior to like a year ago tops, and no-one with any credibility has ever said it, and it's blatant nonsense in general.
no that's pretty much observational history, of anyone that's used windows since 3.0 it's a proven track record.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:41:04
touch is stupid on a desktop, i'm leaning back on my 24in monitor, i don't want to sit up to "touch" anything. Now if they incorporate a kinect into windows 8 and i can swipe that way, it might be useful.

I personally haven't try it yet.  But a few people mentioned that every other windows sucks.  And it's proven by history.
That's a pile of excrement that's been repeated ad nauseum by mouthbreathers in response to Windows 8, basically. I don't know what columnist or forum poster started the bandwagon rolling, but no-one ever said this about Windows prior to like a year ago tops, and no-one with any credibility has ever said it, and it's blatant nonsense in general.
no that's pretty much observational history, of anyone that's used windows since 3.0 it's a proven track record.

Other than all of those same people forgetting how goofy XP was before SP1.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: BoxWithADot on Wed, 05 December 2012, 16:41:30
Been using Windows 8 for a while, and I actually like it pretty well. Took about half an hour to get the hang of it. I don't know why everyone hates Metro so much, it's really not horrible to navigate with a mouse. That being said, if you really don't want the Metro interface you should look into Classic Shell (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/). It lets you bring back the start menu, as well as loads of other old features, and it's pretty customizable. I played with it a bit, but I'm going to keep using Metro for a while.

Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:15:41
The whole "Every other version of windows" thing is goofy and stupid. Let's look at it objectively.

This myth never seems to take into account anything before Windows 3.1, so Windows for Workgroups, DOS 6.0, ETC are all disincluded.
Also this myth seems to strangely disinclude server, thin client and CE versions of OSes, focusing mainly on the "home" or "pro" teirs (assuming the software is tiered)


3.1- GUI improvements over DOS

95- Built from the ground up, Most computers couldn't run it properly due to it requiring higher resources than earlier iterations of windows.

98- Hardware catching up to software. Some driver and implimentation issues.

98SE Slight improvements over 98. Hardware is now caught up with OS and the "everyman" pc runs it well.

2000- Driver and performance issues. Based on the Windows NT Generally thought of as "good" despite viral issues. Recieved updates for a decade after release

ME- New UI built on features from 2000 and 98SE. Cited stability issues. Considered by many as "worst OS (Microsoft) ever made"

NT- (Suppose, specifically NT 4.0)

XP- Issues before SP1 which introduced large tweaks and updates on both the front and backend including changes in menus and the UI and driver fixes and updates

Vista- Much like 95, many PCs running at the time only had 256-512 MB RAM, not nearly enough to stably run Vista. After hardware improvements and SP1, the OS performs much more reliably.

7- Built off the features Vista presented. Hardware has time to catch up, many computers are running 2+GB RAM, 64 Bit computing is becoming mainstream. Currently regarded as "Good" by consumers.

8- Still very early in it's life cycle. Performance is identical or better than that achieved with the same hardware running W7. Metro interface main cause for consumer dissent.

So I don't really see where people get the good/bad cycle from. As you can see a lot of it has to do with M$ releasing a software that will take advantage of hardware that will be available in about a year after release on the majority of consumers, possibly assuming consumers will update their systems with the OS. This doesn't seem to be the case as consumers would rather complain about how **** their computer is than spend the money to fix it.

Other than all of those same people forgetting how goofy XP was before SP1.

And everybody hated 98 when it first came out BECAUSE it had a start menu. Why isn't just the desktop good enough?! How different! We hate it!

EDIT: Here's a list from a different user on anandtech

Quote
Win 3- terrible, just use DOS
Win 3.1- slightly better, but still inferior to DOS, another BAD
Windows 95- Good compared to everything up until this point, but BAD compared to future OS.
Windows 98- Fixed a lot of the issues with 95, but had some problems of it's own, better in Win98 Second Edition.
Windows 2000- Good, amazing, perfect OS. Flawless in every way.
Windows ME- Considered bad, but IMO pretty much equal to windows 98. Clearly inferior to Windows 2000 though.
Windows XP- At release, BAD- lots of driver issues, some infamous problems with sound blaster live cards and via drivers, but after the 3rd service pack it was mostly redeemed and considered good.
Windows Vista- At release, considered BAD by most, but IMO most of the blame is on bad drivers from nvidia or ATI. After SP1 I had no problems with Vista, although many still consider it bad. Still nothing wrong with it IMO, but 7 makes it obsolete.
Windows 7- Good, considered good by most users.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:21:34
touch is stupid on a desktop, i'm leaning back on my 24in monitor, i don't want to sit up to "touch" anything. Now if they incorporate a kinect into windows 8 and i can swipe that way, it might be useful.

I personally haven't try it yet.  But a few people mentioned that every other windows sucks.  And it's proven by history.
That's a pile of excrement that's been repeated ad nauseum by mouthbreathers in response to Windows 8, basically. I don't know what columnist or forum poster started the bandwagon rolling, but no-one ever said this about Windows prior to like a year ago tops, and no-one with any credibility has ever said it, and it's blatant nonsense in general.
no that's pretty much observational history, of anyone that's used windows since 3.0 it's a proven track record.

Other than all of those same people forgetting how goofy XP was before SP1.
Precisely. As well as the other numerous other actual facts that contradict the distorted revisionism of the simpletons that subscribe to the "every other Windows is bad/good" myth. Like the fact Vista was actually fine, or that the 9x line was all just bad, or that the NT and 9x lineages were totally separate prior to XP, which is another thing the revisionists like to disregard in order to shoehorn their theory into sounding as if it's correct (e.g. going 2000 = good, Me = bad, XP = good).

There is no good/bad pattern to Windows releases. The closest thing to a pattern is the trend of general improvement which each release, combined with some teething issues every time there's a major overhaul, like compatibility issues with drivers and software, a bump in hardware requirements, etc.

Also, for those that look back at XP with rose tinted glasses, it was plagued with all the same issues Vista was when it's released, only it was around for so long that everyone (except for rational grown-ups) forgot: http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:35:09
Quote
http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/

dude that site looks awesome. I'm going to remember it for when I want to read real tech articles.

all tomshardware does these days is who is suing who and barry gerber's joke articles. The hardware charts barely keep me around.

EDIT: Also second article I read from there is a rework of the first lol

http://www.zdnet.com/with-windows-8-microsofts-playing-a-scene-from-groundhog-day-7000008243/
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:35:12
IMO XP was pretty awful... Vista is a much better OS, always has been... Vista could have been amazing and people still would have complained about it..

I'd upgrade to Win8 if I could remove metro and have back a win7 style taskbar... I know you can do it with mod tools etc but I'd rather have them patch it all in
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:37:26
IMO XP was pretty awful... Vista is a much better OS, always has been... Vista could have been amazing and people still would have complained about it

I think that's part of it, perception.

If somebody tells you "you won't like this candy" and then you give them the candy, they're far more likely to say "I don't like this candy" than if you just hand it to them, because they're EXPECTING to dislike the candy.


stupid comparison, but you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:39:28
IMO XP was pretty awful... Vista is a much better OS, always has been... Vista could have been amazing and people still would have complained about it

I think that's part of it, perception.

If somebody tells you "you won't like this candy" and then you give them the candy, they're far more likely to say "I don't like this candy" than if you just hand it to them, because they're EXPECTING to dislike the candy.


stupid comparison, but you know what I mean.

idd, I actually like alot of win8 i just can't stand being slown down by the new start menu... and at least in the RC version sc2 wouldn't install... so yeah... dunknow what that **** is about...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: nullstring on Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:42:34
There are a few new features in windows 8 that seemed nice, so I will probably upgrade.
I will, however, be disabling everything metro related.

Metro seems obviously not designed for a workstation environment

That's the thing, though. I spend all day on the computer and only time I even see metro is when I start up and shut down (providing I dont' just slap the power button)

Pin the few programs you use on your task bar, stick a link on your desktop to My Computer or just use winkey+e and you can ignore the-interface-formerly-known-as-Metro all day long.

I use the windows 7 start menu alot though. I like being able to press win and then type in whatever command I wish to run. I'd hate to lose that feature.
Fortunately, there is way to restore this start menu and not have to deal with the metro stuff at all.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 05 December 2012, 18:17:11
I use the windows 7 start menu alot though. I like being able to press win and then type in whatever command I wish to run. I'd hate to lose that feature.
Fortunately, there is way to restore this start menu and not have to deal with the metro stuff at all.

They didn't remove that feature from 8. It's almost exactly the same except now instead of settings/programs/files being displayed in list form you have to choose if it's a setting/program or file.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: m00nshake on Wed, 05 December 2012, 20:34:21
I personally like Windows 8, it's rock solid as an OS, it hasn't given me a single hiccup. The Metro interface has great potential, if you're already used to a smart phone/ tablet style widget interface, as I am. I upgraded to Windows 8 with a lot of doubts, but I don't plan on downgrading to Windows 7 after using it, especially the low price for the upgrade. I'm not saying that there aren't things that have to be tweaked, because there are, but as a robust and solid OS, I'm quite pleased. It's fast to boot and shut down, runs very smoothly, incorporates the things I like about a widget type interface for things like weather and news, and has everything else in the desktop interface. If you're skeptical, give it a fair chance. I am not regretting the upgrade one bit.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Glod on Thu, 06 December 2012, 01:25:06
Everyone can has a right to hate it or like it, i think some people hate it due to Microsoft ramming live tiles, which are aimed towards tablet/touch screen users, down our throats and this ad nausea as Microsoft is spending big bucks on horrible ads (at least in the states). Hell some people think all desktop operating systems are doing it wrong, see the Humane Interface written by Jeff Raskin. However i think human-computer interface studies always ignore heavy multitasking and power users such as myself.

Not like anyone cares but I've been running Windows 8 for about a month now and I am overall OK with it, I don't hate it but at the same time nothing really stands out as justification for the upgrade.

I didn't see any learning curve people speak of and I see no substantial changes. The new start menu is a gimmick to get people to buy touch screens and the app market is filled with stupid crap aimed for RT tablet users. I guess this talk of a "learning curve" only applies if you mess around with windows live tiles (previously called metro) too long; I honestly don't give a $@!# about the windows live tiles, i launch apps 99% of the time by pressing my windows key and typing the app i want to run, i've been doing this since vista and i did the same with my experience with OSX. There are minor visual tweaks of things like the task manager and a multi-monitor taskbar. I actually forget i upgraded to windows 8 most of the time because there is that little of a difference with the desktop UI.

Boot time appears to be faster as it may be taking advantage of my SSDs more than it did in 7 and I haven't had a single system crash since i have upgraded. Games appear to run at the same frame rates though 3dmark11 refuses to score on windows 8 so i don't have a good quantitative figure to compare to windows 7.  I have had no problems with drivers for any of my components or peripherals.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: quadibloc on Thu, 06 December 2012, 15:37:29
Part of it is the principle of the thing: that Microsoft, because it is in a monopoly position, instead of being part of an intensely competitive marketplace for computer operating systems, can make the next version of Windows even slightly less well suited to personal computers because it wants to be better prepared to obtain an advantageous position in the new, growing market of tablets and smartphones just naturally provokes outrage.

When we consumers pay good money for a consumer product, we expect it to be designed to serve us, not the company that's selling it! Then they will have earned their reward of money pouring in from high sales.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cwang1004 on Thu, 06 December 2012, 16:05:57
I just think people in general simply have too much hate now days. I don't know, I'm a computer scientist/software developer and regardless of the technical level of the system, I think to an average user the only difference would be that the traditional start menu is missing. But...is it really that bad? Do you really use it THAT often to find a program you installed or something? And for people who are complaining about games are not compatible on Win8, I really wanna say some dirty **** to yall but I'll save them.

I guess the bottom line is go try out the system if possible. If you don't like it you don't like it, it's cool. But don't just search up a few images of the system on google and say "oh that must be a failure"
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 06 December 2012, 16:09:02
For those complaining about games not compatible with Windows 8, try using a Mac.  Or GNU/Linux.  You Windows users are spoilt for choice.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Thu, 06 December 2012, 17:36:45
For those complaining about games not compatible with Windows 8, try using a Mac.  Or GNU/Linux.  You Windows users are spoilt for choice.

or, just win7... lol
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 06 December 2012, 17:43:00
For those complaining about games not compatible with Windows 8, try using a Mac.  Or GNU/Linux.  You Windows users are spoilt for choice.

What do you MEAN I have to run dosbox to run Commander Keen! It was only made 20 years ago! Why the HELL isn't that supported!?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 06 December 2012, 19:22:43
For those complaining about games not compatible with Windows 8, try using a Mac.  Or GNU/Linux.  You Windows users are spoilt for choice.

What do you MEAN I have to run dosbox to run Commander Keen! It was only made 20 years ago! Why the HELL isn't that supported!?

But that's on almost any platform.

For mainstream games, most are console or Windows only.  Valve have done well with Steam/ Half-Life 2 and Portal (to name a few) for Mac.  And soon for GNU/Linux too.

Actually I kinda see Windows as a gaming operating system.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Fri, 07 December 2012, 06:10:49
Actually I kinda see Windows as a gaming operating system.

how is it not that already?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 07 December 2012, 15:40:34
I don't bash any particular version of Windows, I bash Windows in general.

If they want my money (oh wait, I have access to an academic license for free), they should rather create a sane, configurable desktop environment (see KDE Plasma Desktop Workspace), use better package management (not that closed "app store" crap), replace that command-line parody with a proper shell (don't even let me start about PowerShell and graphic configuration tools in general, WindowsY2K8-R2 server setup is one of my worst nightmares) etc.

tl;dr Next Windows should be some UNIX flavour. Oh wait, I probably wouldn't use it for licensing reasons anyway.

P.S. I still need WinXP because of some obscure hardware, and hastaLaVista/Sieben for development. Gods, how I hate it.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 07 December 2012, 15:43:12
... hastaLaVista/Sieben ...

Wha?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:10:06
To be honest with yall, I don't really care about Windows 8. I'll still use Windows 3.1 no matter what Microsoft calls their new version.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:14:25
To be honest with yall, I don't really care about Windows 8. I'll still use Windows 3.1 no matter what Microsoft calls their new version.

PREACH!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:18:05
Actually I don't want a start menu at all, nor this new metro thingy (I prefer to use a top bar with drop down menus (http://soulhunters-crappy-website.com/misc/Desktop.png), much faster...)
Under Windows 7 you just have to run a app like "Startkiller" to remove the star menu, but how do I easily remove metro under Windows 8?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:18:50
Well, Windows 3.1 is a good operating system. It's very secure on the Internet and uses very little system resources. And I can install it with only 6 floppy disks!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:20:49
Actually I don't want a start menu at all, nor this new metro thingy (I prefer to use a top bar with drop down menus (http://soulhunters-crappy-website.com/misc/Desktop.png), much faster...)
Under Windows 7 you just have to run a app like "Startkiller" to remove the star menu, but how do I easily remove metro under Windows 8?
Start8
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheSoulhunter on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:23:33
Actually I don't want a start menu at all, nor this new metro thingy (I prefer to use a top bar with drop down menus (http://soulhunters-crappy-website.com/misc/Desktop.png), much faster...)
Under Windows 7 you just have to run a app like "Startkiller" to remove the star menu, but how do I easily remove metro under Windows 8?
Start8

Not sure if trolling ;P
"Bring back the Windows® "Start" menu with Start8™!"
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 07 December 2012, 16:28:29
Actually I don't want a start menu at all, nor this new metro thingy (I prefer to use a top bar with drop down menus (http://soulhunters-crappy-website.com/misc/Desktop.png), much faster...)
Under Windows 7 you just have to run a app like "Startkiller" to remove the star menu, but how do I easily remove metro under Windows 8?
Start8

Not sure if trolling ;P
"Bring back the Windows® "Start" menu with Start8™!"
I guess a little bit of both. i just Ignore Metro you dont see it if you stay on the desktop.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 08 December 2012, 01:16:01
This too: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38096.0

Mac OS you can install any number of times on any number of computers, in theory (although you are only supposed to install it on one).  No licence key.  No activation bull****.

GNU/Linux the same, maybe unless you have a support contract with a large Linux vendor who limits the number of nodes they will support.

A lot of games have an installation limit too.

No idea why - someone will crack it eventually anyway.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: reaper on Sat, 08 December 2012, 02:29:02
If you guys don't like that Metro crap then just download Classic Shell (http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/) (open-source project).  It bypasses the Metro and give you back the Start menu.  I've been using it for awhile now and it's great.  :)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 08 December 2012, 10:19:52
This too: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38096.0

Mac OS you can install any number of times on any number of computers, in theory (although you are only supposed to install it on one).  No licence key.  No activation bull****.

GNU/Linux the same, maybe unless you have a support contract with a large Linux vendor who limits the number of nodes they will support.

A lot of games have an installation limit too.

No idea why - someone will crack it eventually anyway.

Why install Mac OS X when you can just install Windows 3.1? Windows 3.1 doesn't even need a product key. All you need is an x86-compatible computer with a floppy or CD drive and a hard disk and you're set!

And plus, Mac OS X is slow, unreliable, and way locked down. I can't even change the color of my window borders on Mac OS X. But I CAN in Windows 3.1. Or how about changing what you use for your GUI? Good luck with that in Mac OS X.

Windows 3.1 is also far more secure for Internet usage since nobody makes viruses for 16-bit operating systems anymore.

MAC OS X = MACsimizing Obsessive Stupidity for Xtreme dummies!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 08 December 2012, 10:25:30
That's not true about the GUI customization - OS X supports themes. (At least it did when I used it).

In fact, I recall at one point I had it looking like OS 6 :)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Sat, 08 December 2012, 23:31:50
Windows 3.1 was not bad.  But how about Windows for Workgroups 3.11?  I used that more - it actually worked and was quite nice (although I must admit that I used to use its multitasking ability to run several DOS boxes at the same time).

Unfortunately most of the modern software I use does not run on Windows 3.1.  Chrome, Minecraft, Thunderbird, Steam, Eclipse and so on.  There probably are older versions that work with Win3.1, but they would be so full of security holes it is not funny.

You could argue why not continue to use Mac OS 9 or earlier ("Classic")?  Same thing - only older software works properly on it, if at all.

It's actually a toss-up for me between Windows 2000 and Windows XP as to which is best.  XP probably just wind out as performance is notably better than 2000.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 09 December 2012, 10:26:05
Except Windows Vista, 7 and 8 are all superior to 2000 and XP with regard to performance on modern hardware, compatibility with modern applications/hardware, reliability, security, etc.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Hak Foo on Sun, 09 December 2012, 11:02:33
I've been using it since a few days after it was released.

I don't care for the new notification system.  The only way I know now if there are windows updates is to notice a small brown-on-green text message that disappears the second I log in.  No baloon on the desktop.  And then the update control panel itself is a full-screen app, rather than a conveninent "run it in the background and keep an eye on it."

Full-screen apps are pretty but only make sense when your resolution is, maybe, 1024x768 or less.  I want to resize and move my programs around to get good value out of my screen space.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Sun, 09 December 2012, 11:17:20
Except Windows Vista, 7 and 8 are all superior to 2000 and XP with regard to performance on modern hardware, compatibility with modern applications/hardware, reliability, security, etc.
What a pity some new programmable point-of-sale keyboards (and other industrial hardware) aren't modern. It's a shame I have to throw away my otherwise perfectly working scanner only because it's not "modern"... oh wait, it's still supported in SANE.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: dutmai on Sun, 09 December 2012, 14:29:55
It is very hard to use if your monitor is not touch screen
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 09 December 2012, 14:40:17
It is very hard to use if your monitor is not touch screen
You ever used it because thats not the case at all.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:15:35
Performance and compatability on modern hardware is a no-brainer.  No-one makes drivers for chipsets or GPUs for really old operating systems any more.

Now that 8 is out, and XP is soon to lose its extended extended extended support status, I wonder how long manufacturers will continue to support it with new drivers.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:31:18
Open-source community drivers! Oh wait...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 09 December 2012, 15:57:06
Now that 8 is out, and XP is soon to lose its extended extended extended support status, I wonder how long manufacturers will continue to support it with new drivers.

2014 isn't that soon for manufactors to drop support..
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: quadibloc on Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:10:11
2014 isn't that soon for manufactors to drop support..
After paying for a copy of Windows 3.1 or Windows 98, if manufacturers don't continue making drivers for all their peripherals for them, one is forced to actually replace the perfectly good operating system you've bought, and buy another one, in order to stay up-to-date!

I mean, it seems like switching to Linux is the only way to escape this rip-off!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:21:44
Oh my god, there is no 286 support?!? I can't upgrade my Goupil Golf to Windows 8 from 3.1? I has a sad. Not like it would fit on 40mb hard drive anyway... lol.
Actually I was surprised when it installed on an old Athlon 64 system of a relative. It all works fine except some the visual effects as the x300 gpu is too old.

Switch to linux is not always a help either. I noticed a lot of distros have started dumping i386 branch and other old device support. I'm still stuck on few version old crunchbang on my Via Epia I use for linux due to just that. Even linux is dropping some hardware because it is too old and not enough people use it to bother to keep maintaining for it.

Really it comes down a lot to people don't like 8 because they don't want to have to relearn anything. Many people really hate change.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:23:38
2014 isn't that soon for manufactors to drop support..
After paying for a copy of Windows 3.1 or Windows 98, if manufacturers don't continue making drivers for all their peripherals for them, one is forced to actually replace the perfectly good operating system you've bought, and buy another one, in order to stay up-to-date!

I mean, it seems like switching to Linux is the only way to escape this rip-off!
Can't tell if this is deadpan sarcasm or tragically serious.

(https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/3/33/Futurama_Fry_Looking_Squint.jpg)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:25:51
Windows 8 y u no run on my Babbage Engine!?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Difference_engine.JPG/320px-Difference_engine.JPG)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Sun, 09 December 2012, 16:26:35
Windows Vista y u no run on my Babbage Engine!?

Show Image
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Difference_engine.JPG/320px-Difference_engine.JPG)


welcome to 2008
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: 1391401 on Sun, 09 December 2012, 21:50:31
Im a start menu fanboy, I do not like the Mac-Spotlight-esque "lol who cares how this environment is set up just type something in this box and ill find it for you" navigation that is starting to be popular (e.g. Gnome 3) or the wall-of-icons BS they are throwing at us (again, gnome 3 or the iPad OSx thing and now Win 8).  Consequently I find the best wall-of-icons to be the Modern UI of W8.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Mon, 10 December 2012, 02:52:31
BTW why not KRunner, GNOME Do or something like that? It's fast, inobtrusive,...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cponline83 on Mon, 10 December 2012, 09:19:15
I personally haven't try
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:49:42
Writing Software is hard. Really hard. Writing an OS is even harder. Why SHOULDN'T you pay for a newer version, with newer features, that took time to develop by real people, with real families to feed.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 10 December 2012, 12:50:02
That being said I love Windows 8.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 10 December 2012, 14:30:15
Writing Software is hard. Really hard. Writing an OS is even harder. Why SHOULDN'T you pay for a newer version, with newer features, that took time to develop by real people, with real families to feed.

I don't pay for new software just because somebody may've worked hard to make it.  Much of those peoples' "hard work" amounts to more crap on my hard disk, more obnoxious activation and anti-piracy measures, more dumb updaters, and less cash, that I worked hard for,  in my pocket!

Just compare Microsoft Office '97 to Office 2010. Just about all Microsoft did was add cumbersome and irritating anti-piracy and activation, change some fonts, shuffle around all the menus, make the graphics shiny, and make it hog up nearly a gigabyte of extra disk space.

But Office '97 runs perfectly fine on anything from a 486 with 12MB of RAM to an Intel I5 with 8GB of RAM. And I can just take my one disk and install it on as many PC's as I feel like using the same number. And it still works perfectly fine for typing up my documents and creating charts, graphics, and presentations. I use it all the time for work and have absolutely no trouble. And if somebody throws a .docx file at me? Wordpad'll take care of that.

Or what about Adobe Acrobat Reader? What was once a simple, fast, and easy-to-use PDF reader has now morphed into a monstrous, bloated mess that takes up over 100MB of disk space and constantly asks me for updates. And then "A-Dope" wonders why I don't buy their full version. Maybe it's because I've got better things to do than spend hundreds of dollars on a piece of crap?

I don't give a damn how hard those programmers and software engineers work, or how their life situation is. That's their business, not mine. If I find their product to a be slow and irritating heap of ****, then I just won't buy it. I'm a capitalist, and I put my money where my mouth's at.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 10 December 2012, 14:36:48
Regarding Office 2010 at least, they added a TON of new features that boost productivity. The graphics probably take up more disk space than the binaries, but it's not like they didn't add actual value.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Mon, 10 December 2012, 15:45:59
Writing Software is hard. Really hard. Writing an OS is even harder. Why SHOULDN'T you pay for a newer version, with newer features, that took time to develop by real people, with real families to feed.

Reminds me of this:

There was once a programmer who was attached to the court of the warlord of Wu. The warlord asked the programmer: "Which is easier to design: an accounting package or an operating system?"

"An operating system," replied the programmer.

The warlord uttered an exclamation of disbelief. "Surely an accounting package is trivial next to the complexity of an operating system," he said.

"Not so," said the programmer, "when designing an accounting package, the programmer operates as a mediator between people having different ideas: how it must operate, how its reports must appear, and how it must conform to the tax laws. By contrast, an operating system is not limited by outside appearances. When designing an operating system, the programmer seeks the simplest harmony between machine and ideas. This is why an operating system is easier to design."

The warlord of Wu nodded and smiled. "That is all good and well, but which is easier to debug?"

The programmer made no reply.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 10 December 2012, 20:36:08
2014 isn't that soon for manufactors to drop support..

To put it in perspective, XP came out in 2002, meaning that it got 12 years of extended microsoft support.

This is the sort of computer that would represent a pretty high end XP release build:

(http://www.digital-web.com/images/articles/feature_2002-12_dell2.gif)

A Pentium 1.8 GhZ with a whopping 40 GB IDE HDD and 512 of DDR RAM.

Consider, now, that you can get from Dell today an i7 clocked at 3.9 GhZ, 8 GB Ram and a Terabyte drive for 799.95, and these two machines aren't even in the same solar system. You're not using a PC from 2002, so why are you so insistant on people using an OS from 2002?

(http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2002-01-14-inside-curtis2.jpg)

Dude (pun intended) face it, XP had it's day in the sun and it's long past due to be put out to pasture.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 10 December 2012, 20:50:20
also
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 10 December 2012, 21:02:59
Full-screen apps are pretty but only make sense when your resolution is, maybe, 1024x768 or less.  I want to resize and move my programs around to get good value out of my screen space.

You can resize apps, but only vertically. I can't remember how right at the moment. I think it's moving up to the top left and then dragging the app out onto your desktop (it will split the desktop area between the app and the desktop, or between mutiple apps)

You can do this as much as you like. Not as versatile as programs in windows, i'll grant you that, but it's still possible.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 14 December 2012, 16:14:07
You're not using a PC from 2002, so why are you so insistant on people using an OS from 2002?
I call BS on this.


Writing Software is hard. Really hard. Writing an OS is even harder. Why SHOULDN'T you pay for a newer version, with newer features, that took time to develop by real people, with real families to feed.
ROFL. What do I have to smoke to come up with ideas like this? O.o
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 December 2012, 01:26:10
Writing Software is hard. Really hard. Writing an OS is even harder. Why SHOULDN'T you pay for a newer version, with newer features, that took time to develop by real people, with real families to feed.

I don't pay for new software just because somebody may've worked hard to make it.  Much of those peoples' "hard work" amounts to more crap on my hard disk, more obnoxious activation and anti-piracy measures, more dumb updaters, and less cash, that I worked hard for,  in my pocket!

Just compare Microsoft Office '97 to Office 2010. Just about all Microsoft did was add cumbersome and irritating anti-piracy and activation, change some fonts, shuffle around all the menus, make the graphics shiny, and make it hog up nearly a gigabyte of extra disk space.

But Office '97 runs perfectly fine on anything from a 486 with 12MB of RAM to an Intel I5 with 8GB of RAM. And I can just take my one disk and install it on as many PC's as I feel like using the same number. And it still works perfectly fine for typing up my documents and creating charts, graphics, and presentations. I use it all the time for work and have absolutely no trouble. And if somebody throws a .docx file at me? Wordpad'll take care of that.

Or what about Adobe Acrobat Reader? What was once a simple, fast, and easy-to-use PDF reader has now morphed into a monstrous, bloated mess that takes up over 100MB of disk space and constantly asks me for updates. And then "A-Dope" wonders why I don't buy their full version. Maybe it's because I've got better things to do than spend hundreds of dollars on a piece of crap?

I don't give a damn how hard those programmers and software engineers work, or how their life situation is. That's their business, not mine. If I find their product to a be slow and irritating heap of ****, then I just won't buy it. I'm a capitalist, and I put my money where my mouth's at.

Dude, you said exactly what I was trying to say, just the other side of the coin. If you don't like the newer version, don't buy it. If you want to use it, then you should pay for it.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 December 2012, 01:27:29
ROFL. What do I have to smoke to come up with ideas like this? O.o

Nothing, actually. I'm curious what your problem with the idea is?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: DasHHKBProM on Sat, 15 December 2012, 02:59:21
.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Sun, 16 December 2012, 03:27:20
  • There are tons of perfectly working legacy hardware, I don't think new release of some OS is a good reason to throw it away.
  • Some hardware/software simply *doesn't work* on new releases of the OS.
  • Performance of most netbooks is still on par with old hardware (even Pentium Ms were more powerful than early Atoms, AMD E-350 is comparable to three years old C2D)


Also, @DasHHKBProM, I totally agree with you.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Sun, 16 December 2012, 03:53:30
Your argumentation is based on a completely invalid assumption, hence there's no point in discussing it further.
You're not using a PC from 2002, so why are you so insistant on people using an OS from 2002?

Sane people don't run the latest OS for the sake of running the latest OS. We use software (and hardware) that helps us get stuff done. MS Win8 don't (yet).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:28:26
Your argumentation is based on a completely invalid assumption, hence there's no point in discussing it further.
You're not using a PC from 2002, so why are you so insistant on people using an OS from 2002?

Sane people don't run the latest OS for the sake of running the latest OS. We use software (and hardware) that helps us get stuff done. MS Win8 don't (yet).

And what you said *is* valid?

Cause I seem to be getting things done with win8...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: iri on Sun, 16 December 2012, 12:59:07
i don't bash windows 8. i've never used windows since xp.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Sun, 16 December 2012, 13:19:52
I'm slowly getting used to Windows 8 on a 13" touchscreen Ultrabook that work paid for, but without a touchscreen, I honestly don't see the point. 
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Sun, 16 December 2012, 14:52:22
I'm slowly getting used to Windows 8 on a 13" touchscreen Ultrabook that work paid for, but without a touchscreen, I honestly don't see the point. 

I would tend to agree with you there, assuming you mean "over Windows 7"

For the most part it's Windows 7 with touch functionality. People love windows 7 but they hate Windows 7: Touch Edition?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Sun, 16 December 2012, 15:17:08
I'm slowly getting used to Windows 8 on a 13" touchscreen Ultrabook that work paid for, but without a touchscreen, I honestly don't see the point. 

I would tend to agree with you there, assuming you mean "over Windows 7"

For the most part it's Windows 7 with touch functionality. People love windows 7 but they hate Windows 7: Touch Edition?

Yep that's what I meant.  I really like Win7, and see absolutely no reason to "upgrade" to 8 unless it's for touchscreen functionality.  And besides live tiles, I find myself using the Win7-style "desktop" MUCH more than the metro side of things, even on the touchscreen.

I should disclose, though, that I'm using a Lenovo Yoga 13, which cameos as a slightly-too-large-but-functional tablet.  Without this specific form factor AND the touchscreen, I'm not sure I'd find much to love about Windows 8 that I can't already do in 7.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 16 December 2012, 17:24:25
Thats all some great BS there are great improvement under the hood that you guys seem to not care about at all.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Sun, 16 December 2012, 17:31:47
Thats all some great BS there are great improvement under the hood that you guys seem to not care about at all.

Oh I care, but I'd rather see those under-the-hood improvements with a Windows7 GUI.  Anyway like I said, it's definitely useful for touchscreen, but I doubt I would even have tried it yet if work didn't pay my new laptop.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 16 December 2012, 17:35:18
Thats all some great BS there are great improvement under the hood that you guys seem to not care about at all.

Oh I care, but I'd rather see those under-the-hood improvements with a Windows7 GUI.  Anyway like I said, it's definitely useful for touchscreen, but I doubt I would even have tried it yet if work didn't pay my new laptop.
well just dont use the GUI i dont touch it i just stay on the desktop as i would have done with Win7.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Sun, 16 December 2012, 17:44:33
Thats all some great BS there are great improvement under the hood that you guys seem to not care about at all.

Oh I care, but I'd rather see those under-the-hood improvements with a Windows7 GUI.  Anyway like I said, it's definitely useful for touchscreen, but I doubt I would even have tried it yet if work didn't pay my new laptop.
well just dont use the GUI i dont touch it i just stay on the desktop as i would have done with Win7.

That's basically what I do.  But there are still major changes, like no start menu, etc.  I don't mind as much because I prefer keyboard commands anyway (as you'd expect on GH), but some may be more bothered by it.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Glod on Sun, 16 December 2012, 18:43:59
Thats all some great BS there are great improvement under the hood that you guys seem to not care about at all.

i was thinking the same thing
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:30:53
Thats all some great BS there are great improvement under the hood that you guys seem to not care about at all.

i was thinking the same thing

The jump isn't nearly as large as XP>Vista or Vista>7. Yeah, there are some new tweaks and features (I do like the new Task Manager, and for the first time in history the copy GUI makes sense) Startup/Shutdown times are VASTLY improved and the UEFI BIOS, when used correctly, can be extremely useful. When you get down to brass tacks, though,  the desktop layout is much the same, the reccomended specs are very similar and there isn't any huge new feature over windows 7 (that I know of)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 18 December 2012, 18:07:06
What's UEFI BIOS? O.o
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 18 December 2012, 18:18:41
What's UEFI BIOS? O.o
usually referring to the new clicky BIOS's but UEFI is only standard to allow booting off 3TB drives (and possibly mice) and replaces the BIOS  and a bunch of other things that let the OS talk to the hardware easier and better. Lots of motherboard manufacturers just decided to add the mouse features with it which i find rather stupid because when the average joe sees and overclock button they can click theyll do it (or that is at least my experience).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Tue, 18 December 2012, 18:49:57
Well, thanks for explanation, but I just wanted to point out that so-called UEFI BIOS is nothing but a marketing buzzword, because UEFI _replaces_ BIOS (as you've mentioned).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: fohat.digs on Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:27:18
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:28:07
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:35:12
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:40:53
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Who builds a pc and doesnt tweak BIOS settings?

Also im so happy most of the Intel MB's ive worked on lately have a legacy mode FTW!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:43:15
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Who builds a pc and doesnt tweak BIOS settings?

Also im so happy most of the Intel MB's ive worked on lately have a legacy mode FTW!

True enough.  I've had the pleasure of playing around with Asus' latest iterations of UEFI and I really like the funtionality.  But I've only used Windows 8 so far on my Ultrabook.  If I ever get a large enough touchscreen to justify installing Windows 8 on a desktop, it'll be fun to test how UEFI integrates...from what I've read on that front, it's all good.  Call me old fashioned but I still love my Win7 on the desktops I build.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Tue, 18 December 2012, 19:53:33
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?

yes if you building a new PC

Especially if you plan to tweak BIOS settings.  If you plan to use stock settings, it probably doesn't matter?
Who builds a pc and doesnt tweak BIOS settings?

Also im so happy most of the Intel MB's ive worked on lately have a legacy mode FTW!

True enough.  I've had the pleasure of playing around with Asus' latest iterations of UEFI and I really like the funtionality.  But I've only used Windows 8 so far on my Ultrabook.  If I ever get a large enough touchscreen to justify installing Windows 8 on a desktop, it'll be fun to test how UEFI integrates...from what I've read on that front, it's all good.  Call me old fashioned but I still love my Win7 on the desktops I build.
Go Win8 its snappy!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Tue, 18 December 2012, 20:55:33
OK, I am an idiot, but what does UEFI stand for, anyway?

Is it something I should know about?


Unified Extensible Firmware Interface

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uefi
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Wed, 19 December 2012, 12:30:29
basically, as I understand it, it's the bridge between your motherboard's BIOS and your OS/software. Allows for a more "tuned up" transition from motherboard->storage media/hdd

I still ignore the mouse in the UEFI BIOS and use KB because it's still faster lol.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Wed, 19 December 2012, 13:24:56
basically, as I understand it, it's the bridge between your motherboard's firmware and your OS/software.
FTFY

If you use UEFI, there's probably no BIOS. BIOS is *replaced* by UEFI.
Title: Re: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 19 December 2012, 15:13:46
basically, as I understand it, it's the bridge between your motherboard's firmware and your OS/software.
FTFY

If you use UEFI, there's probably no BIOS. BIOS is *replaced* by UEFI.
some motherboards do allow you to run both or one or the other.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:51:54
Hence "probably". Although, that doesn't change anything on the fact that UEFI is replacement for BIOS. So is for example Coreboot (even though things get a bit complicated with different layers, such as a BIOS running on the top of Coreboot).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:55:54
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:57:52
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 19 December 2012, 17:02:55
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
well microsoft may be thinking of doing that they fired the guy who made metro.... and their enterprise customers say they wont buy without a start menu so they dont have to retrain amoung other things

and start 8 is tiny its a very small mod no impact on the system really.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Wed, 19 December 2012, 17:06:15
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
well microsoft may be thinking of doing that they fired the guy who made metro.... and their enterprise customers say they wont buy without a start menu so they dont have to retrain amoung other things

and start 8 is tiny its a very small mod no impact on the system really.

I saw that they fired that guy.  Interesting.  I know Start8 is tiny and unobtrusive, it's just frustrating that MS basically told us to pound sand and left the functionality to the hackers instead of just including the option to begin with.  I will be thrilled if they add that option through a small windowsupdate, or even in a service pack.  But the sooner, the better.  Like I said previously, I like Metro for touchscreen devices and live tiles, but most of us live in the Desktop side of things when doing anything related to "productivity," and it's just silly to reinvent the wheel this many versions in.  Shows a lack of forethought and judgment, in my opinion of course.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Wed, 19 December 2012, 17:07:24
Whoo got Start8 and well i didnt realise how much i missed the start menu... o and metro still works!

See this is my biggest issue with Win8...If I have to mod it to make it function like the OLD windows to maximize the experience, something is wrong.  Don't get me wrong, I see the benefits of the OS for a touchscreen device (as I posted previously), but I hate that I have to mod it so that it works as well as the last version...and I'm talking about functionality, not just appearances.

If a start-menu option was included in Win8, and I didn't have to get a third-party mod, it wouldn't bother me so much.
well microsoft may be thinking of doing that they fired the guy who made metro.... and their enterprise customers say they wont buy without a start menu so they dont have to retrain amoung other things

and start 8 is tiny its a very small mod no impact on the system really.

I saw that they fired that guy.  Interesting.  I know Start8 is tiny and unobtrusive, it's just frustrating that MS basically told us to pound sand and left the functionality to the hackers instead of just including the option to begin with.  I will be thrilled if they add that option through a small windowsupdate, or even in a service pack.  But the sooner, the better.  Like I said previously, I like Metro for touchscreen devices and live tiles, but most of us live in the Desktop side of things when doing anything related to "productivity," and it's just silly to reinvent the wheel this many versions in.  Shows a lack of forethought and judgment, in my opinion of course.
my guess is the option is going to be in the first service pack.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Thu, 20 December 2012, 03:05:55
Honestly, I'm surprised Windows 8 is getting so much hate here on GH, as it's vastly more keyboard friendly than Windows 7 was. I've been using it since RTM (early August), and it's been rock solid. And I don't even notice the Metro stuff any more. Although since getting acclimated to it, I find it much more superior to the start menu.

People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 20 December 2012, 03:09:10
Actually there is a good chance businesses might change his mind.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Thu, 20 December 2012, 13:56:25
True. I'm not saying that what they did with Windows 8 is the best way to go about things. I personally think that they should have either gone whole hog with the Metro thing, or kept it out of Windows 8.

My biggest beef with Windows 8 is that the entire Metro side of things is on DirectWrite for font rendering, and when I get back to the desktop it's back to ClearType. Really, really jarring. But all in all that's relatively minor.

Even though Windows 8 feels unfinished, and nowhere near as cohesive and polished as Windows 7 is, I still think that Windows needs a bit of a shake-up to stay relevant in the face of the new iOS/Android world. There's bound to be some growing pains, and I personally can't wait for Windows 9.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Vintage on Thu, 20 December 2012, 18:13:08
I heard you get better FPS on windows 8..... not sure if It's worth it to switch though.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: rowdy on Thu, 20 December 2012, 20:50:49
I heard (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118882-Valves-Source-Engine-Runs-Better-on-Linux-Than-Windows) you get better FPS on GNU/Linux than Windows ... not sure if it's worth it to switch though.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Fri, 21 December 2012, 06:50:16
I heard (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118882-Valves-Source-Engine-Runs-Better-on-Linux-Than-Windows) you get better FPS on GNU/Linux than Windows ... not sure if it's worth it to switch though.
Just because of better FPS? No, it's not Windows for free.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 21 December 2012, 12:27:56
I heard you get better FPS if you play DOOM on MS-DOS instead. . .  not sure if it's worth it to switch though.

OR

I heard you get a better apocalypse in 2060 than 2012. . . not sure if it's worth it to wait though.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: iri on Sat, 22 December 2012, 12:44:08
I heard (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118882-Valves-Source-Engine-Runs-Better-on-Linux-Than-Windows) you get better FPS on GNU/Linux than Windows ... not sure if it's worth it to switch though.
Just because of better FPS? No, it's not Windows for free.
it's much more.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Sat, 22 December 2012, 13:08:52
I'd say it's rather something different.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: longweight on Sat, 22 December 2012, 13:12:06
Do not buy a Windows 8 phone, it is so so **** that I am going to sell my 920 and go back to Android.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Sun, 23 December 2012, 01:37:30
I f**king LOVED my HD7. I'm really interesting in trying out WP8. You couldn't pay me enough money to go back to Android.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Noko on Sun, 23 December 2012, 17:50:05
I think the best thing about Windows 8 is that I only had to pay $40 to finally get rid of Vista Home Premium on my gaming machine.  It really only took 15 minutes to make the interface usable, too (except for not being able to change window title text from black without editing the registry, what the hell).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: longweight on Sun, 23 December 2012, 18:08:49
DO NOT BUY A WIN8 PHONE.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Sun, 23 December 2012, 22:34:47
DO NOT BUY A WIN8 PHONE.

Care to elaborate?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: lazerpointer on Wed, 09 January 2013, 18:48:30
rant;

Win 8 is a terrible mouse and keyboard experience.

You have to click like 4 to 6 times to do something very trivial that would have taken 2 mouse clicks in Win7. (what I mean is the navigation.

User Account Control in Win8 is OMG bad. User account can NOT have UAC turned off which is Annoying. This means you have to literally enter in the admin account credentials every single time you launch an app... I've resorted to copy / paste from a text file, but still it's freaking annoying..

The decision to put Windows 8 on every single PC going forward is frankly retarded. What if you don't use touch? What if you don't have a tablet?

Lastly, I hate win8 because it's so damn buggy. At my job we have to work with it daily and I must say it's driven me more and more insane as the days go by. I have to develop test plans around it... and it's not as simple as Win7.

/rant

That being said, this will be nice in tablet form, and it will be useful to have the new RTE for application integration with Windows phones / tablets..... But that just tells you what Microsoft's vision for the world is. Screw that. Power to Linux!! Power to open source!!!
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Wed, 09 January 2013, 21:59:48
rant;

Win 8 is a terrible mouse and keyboard experience.

Subjective opinion. My experience has shown precisely the opposite. So I could easily say "Win 8 is a phenomenal mouse and keyboard experience". Which it is. For me at least.

Quote
You have to click like 4 to 6 times to do something very trivial that would have taken 2 mouse clicks in Win7. (what I mean is the navigation.

Examples? I find stuff in Win8 much faster than in Win7, with less keystrokes and less mouse clicks.

Quote
User Account Control in Win8 is OMG bad. User account can NOT have UAC turned off which is Annoying. This means you have to literally enter in the admin account credentials every single time you launch an app... I've resorted to copy / paste from a text file, but still it's freaking annoying..

I'm pretty sure this isn't true. This was the first thing I turned off after upgrading. Start+W -> "uac" -> Enter.

And if a normal user needs to do that many things with Admin credentials, that user should probably just be an Admin.

Quote
The decision to put Windows 8 on every single PC going forward is frankly retarded. What if you don't use touch? What if you don't have a tablet?

I use Windows 8 on my desktop. No touch. No tablet. It's glorious.

Quote
Lastly, I hate win8 because it's so damn buggy. At my job we have to work with it daily and I must say it's driven me more and more insane as the days go by. I have to develop test plans around it... and it's not as simple as Win7.

I have had it installed for 5 months straight, working on it 8+ hours a day, and it hasn't crashed once. Not a single time. And I do software development for a living.

Quote
That being said, this will be nice in tablet form, and it will be useful to have the new RTE for application integration with Windows phones / tablets..... But that just tells you what Microsoft's vision for the world is. Screw that. Power to Linux!! Power to open source!!!

:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:08:58
rant;

Win 8 is a terrible mouse and keyboard experience.

Subjective opinion. My experience has shown precisely the opposite. So I could easily say "Win 8 is a phenomenal mouse and keyboard experience". Which it is. For me at least.

Quote
You have to click like 4 to 6 times to do something very trivial that would have taken 2 mouse clicks in Win7. (what I mean is the navigation.

Examples? I find stuff in Win8 much faster than in Win7, with less keystrokes and less mouse clicks.

Quote
User Account Control in Win8 is OMG bad. User account can NOT have UAC turned off which is Annoying. This means you have to literally enter in the admin account credentials every single time you launch an app... I've resorted to copy / paste from a text file, but still it's freaking annoying..

I'm pretty sure this isn't true. This was the first thing I turned off after upgrading. Start+W -> "uac" -> Enter.

And if a normal user needs to do that many things with Admin credentials, that user should probably just be an Admin.

Quote
The decision to put Windows 8 on every single PC going forward is frankly retarded. What if you don't use touch? What if you don't have a tablet?

I use Windows 8 on my desktop. No touch. No tablet. It's glorious.

Quote
Lastly, I hate win8 because it's so damn buggy. At my job we have to work with it daily and I must say it's driven me more and more insane as the days go by. I have to develop test plans around it... and it's not as simple as Win7.

I have had it installed for 5 months straight, working on it 8+ hours a day, and it hasn't crashed once. Not a single time. And I do software development for a living.

Quote
That being said, this will be nice in tablet form, and it will be useful to have the new RTE for application integration with Windows phones / tablets..... But that just tells you what Microsoft's vision for the world is. Screw that. Power to Linux!! Power to open source!!!

:rolleyes:
same experiencd 100% on multiple pcs
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: precarious on Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:24:08
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?
Title: Re: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:37:14
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?
that has nothing to do with the start menu as its not needed for life itself, muchless computing.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 10 January 2013, 04:42:23
My PC is not a goddamn smartphone.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: precarious on Thu, 10 January 2013, 07:17:36
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?
that has nothing to do with the start menu as its not needed for life itself, muchless computing.

Computing is not needed for life.  What are you saying?  What is your point?  Did you even spend any time thinking about what I said, or respond to it viscerally without any degree of cognition whatsoever?

The problem with the statement is the suggestion that it is advisable to change a fundamental means of interacting with a given system, defended only by the patently false supposition that "all change is good."  So, if all change is good, how about this:  you're alive.  I think you should be dead.

Now do you still agree that all change is good?

Arguments exist in abstract and a given premise can be extrapolated appropriately to other contexts.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Thu, 10 January 2013, 08:23:45
Yes changed is good it spurs evolution which definitly applies to OS's
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 10 January 2013, 11:48:03
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?

So, you're saying you DON'T want to live in a world where we get nutrients from patches, can live in a zero-oxygen enviroment, and can use telepathy?

Bonus points if this world includes not having to sleep, or only having to sleep a couple hours a day.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: precarious on Thu, 10 January 2013, 13:11:33
People are just stuck in their ways. The start button / menu is an almost 20 year old paradigm. Windows is due for a change. If you don't like it, stay on Windows 7. Otherwise... adapt, because getting mad about it ain't gonna change ol' Ballmer's mind.

Eating is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to acquire energy and nutrients.
Breathing is a millions of year old paradigm.  It's time for a new way to transport oxygen into the bloodstream.
Communicating using a language is a thousands of year old paradigm.  It's time for telepathy.
Typing is a decades old paradigm.  It's time for telekinetic data entry.

Need I continue?

So, you're saying you DON'T want to live in a world where we get nutrients from patches, can live in a zero-oxygen enviroment, and can use telepathy?

Bonus points if this world includes not having to sleep, or only having to sleep a couple hours a day.

While I do agree with the proposed sentiment, and will also add that these are things I have previously wished for personally, it should be more or less apparent that this would invariably end in the ultimate trivialization of human life, thus making it completely unnecessary.

While the Start menu could be reasonably subject to a number of improvements, there is really no rationally defensible basis for its complete eradication in favor of an inferior "tile" format.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Thu, 10 January 2013, 14:04:50
While the Start menu could be reasonably subject to a number of improvements, there is really no rationally defensible basis for its complete eradication in favor of an inferior "tile" format.

Use windows 7 on a touch-screen, then you'll know why they opted for metro for win8.

Honestly, it IS really nice for touch, and, honestly, it's not that bad for keyboard and mouse. If you really hate it that much just pin the programs you use on the taskbar or put them on the desktop.

If you want to find anything (ANYTHING) hit winkey and start typing. The search function can find whatever you're looking for.

Everybody seems sad to see the start menu go, but it didn't do anything spectacular that can't be worked around.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: precarious on Thu, 10 January 2013, 15:21:40
I'm perfectly fine with added functionality.  That argument doesn't require any defense.

The problem is reduced functionality.  I am one of the fastest typists to have ever lived.

http://data.typeracer.com/pit/profile?user=cmalmquist
http://data.typeracer.com/pit/profile?user=precariousgray

Pressing the left Windows key and immediately clicking on something pinned to the start menu is far less obtrusive than having an arbitrary slathering of icons constantly within my field of vision, and clearly much faster than having to move both hands to the keyboard to "search."

This is identical to the fundamental aspects of human cognition which dictate that living in a cluttered environment rife with trash and filth will also unconsciously affect the ordered thinking of an individual.

So, you're suggesting that living in a pile of filth is fine, so long as we can navigate around it.;

No.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Sun, 20 January 2013, 13:55:47
Pin to task bar and hide taskbar. Also create folders on your desktop and add desktop to your taskbar should be great for what your looking for.


One of the main reasons microsoft dropped the start menu was due to pin to taskbar.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 21 January 2013, 01:23:19
Computing is not needed for life.  What are you saying?  What is your point?  Did you even spend any time thinking about what I said, or respond to it viscerally without any degree of cognition whatsoever?

The problem with the statement is the suggestion that it is advisable to change a fundamental means of interacting with a given system, defended only by the patently false supposition that "all change is good."  So, if all change is good, how about this:  you're alive.  I think you should be dead.

Now do you still agree that all change is good?

Arguments exist in abstract and a given premise can be extrapolated appropriately to other contexts.

Yes, but only up to a point. After that, it's been abstracted out to such a degree that it doesn't even make any sense anymore.

I never once said "all change is good", and that wasn't my argument. I said that Windows is due for a change. My point is that computing is in it's infancy, and it's shortsighted to think that any particular paradigm that we have come up with is the "best" in such a short time.

That means we need to try out many different ways of doing things. It may end up that a start button/menu is indeed the best paradigm. But I wouldn't feel comfortable coming to that conclusion until a larger set of alternatives had been attempted.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 21 January 2013, 01:25:21
While the Start menu could be reasonably subject to a number of improvements, there is really no rationally defensible basis for its complete eradication in favor of an inferior "tile" format.

Except that stating that the "tile" format is inferior is subjective opinion. I can easily and just as validly state that the start menu is the inferior format, and there's no rationally defensible basis for holding on to it in light of an available superior format.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tufty on Mon, 21 January 2013, 02:33:33
Except that stating that the "tile" format is inferior is subjective opinion. I can easily and just as validly state that the start menu is the inferior format, and there's no rationally defensible basis for holding on to it in light of an available superior format.
Indeed.  Personally, I find both approaches aggressively user-hostile, at least when the user's me. But then I spend most of my time in front of a mac, and have done since '87.  I've tried to like windows, but it invariably has me tearing my hair out and screaming obscenities.

In most cases, there's a lot of "you like what you're used to", and any change that means hunting around looking for stuff you have assigned to muscle memory is going to be taken very badly - hence a certain amount of the inertia in the computing world overall.  QWERTY keyboards, or example, are physically damaging, have no reason to exist since the early 1900s, but how many people, even here in a forum of people who like / want quality keyboards, are interested in learning a new layout, let alone buying something like a Maltron or a Kinesis.  Hell, the much-lusted after, sells for >$1000, m15 might be "ergonomically split", but it's only really a "standard" QWERTY board that's been cut in half and had a funky (and fragile) joint added. Mobile phones and tablets, which are about as far removed as is possible from an 1890's mechanical typewriter, still default to a staggered QWERTY layout for their onscreen keyboards.  And don't get me started on spreadsheets...

The really important advances in computing will be a helluva lot more radical than "replacing one broken UI paradigm with another". As such they will probably fail to get traction.

So.  Why do people bash Windows 8 so much?  Because it forces them to learn a different UI paradigm, but brings no actual benefits in terms of usability above any that the UI might hypothetically bring them (but which hypothetical benefits will be rejected, at least initially, by the majority of users, due to inertia).  The applications themselves, the reason one uses the computer, remain the same.  So it's seen, perhaps with a good deal of reason, as change for change's sake, unification for the benefit of MS who (once they have eradicated the "classic" interface) only have to deal with one set of APIs.
Title: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Mon, 21 January 2013, 03:10:22
Good points regarding inertia. Most new UI changes in an OS  cause people to get up in arms, and then by version 2 most don't understand how they lived without it.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: precarious on Mon, 21 January 2013, 04:06:36
Computing is not needed for life.  What are you saying?  What is your point?  Did you even spend any time thinking about what I said, or respond to it viscerally without any degree of cognition whatsoever?

The problem with the statement is the suggestion that it is advisable to change a fundamental means of interacting with a given system, defended only by the patently false supposition that "all change is good."  So, if all change is good, how about this:  you're alive.  I think you should be dead.

Now do you still agree that all change is good?

Arguments exist in abstract and a given premise can be extrapolated appropriately to other contexts.

Yes, but only up to a point. After that, it's been abstracted out to such a degree that it doesn't even make any sense anymore.

I never once said "all change is good", and that wasn't my argument. I said that Windows is due for a change. My point is that computing is in it's infancy, and it's shortsighted to think that any particular paradigm that we have come up with is the "best" in such a short time.

That means we need to try out many different ways of doing things. It may end up that a start button/menu is indeed the best paradigm. But I wouldn't feel comfortable coming to that conclusion until a larger set of alternatives had been attempted.

I believe that an Earth free from all human life could be a worthwhile pursuit.  Let's go ahead and test this one out, too!

Saying that something is due for a change without qualification is the same as suggesting that all change is good.  I have no idea why you cannot see this, especially since you are referring to a "rationally defensible basis."

I think you have conflated rationality with your own irrational emotional attachment to something you can't necessarily explain.  It's okay, you're just an organism existing in relation to your environment; it's difficult to come to terms with this.

The reason a Start Menu is superior, or the concept thereof, is because it represents a hierarchy.  A hierarchy can be sorted by function, or whatever.  If you wanted to do that with an unsightly slathering of tiles, it would necessarily require more space to accomplish, and is thus inferior.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 27 May 2013, 12:20:20
I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You may be of the opinion that the Start Menu is superior, but all telemetry indicates the opposite. a) Barely anyone uses the Start Menu anymore (again as indicated by Microsoft telemetry, not pulled out of my ass), b) it takes less clicks/time to get things done in Windows 8 compared to Windows 7

I don't see how you equate requiring more space to be inferior, that's what screen real estate is for, not taking advantage of larger display resolutions and using a UI designed when average screens were 800x600 is ridiculous and inefficient.

Windows 8's UI is still a mess for desktops (mainly due to inconsistencies and touchscreen compromises), but it's a step towards something superior than the traditional Start Menu and Desktop. The Start Screen displays much more information, removing the need to even launch programs in some instances, launching programs can be done more quickly using the Start Button, typing the first few letters of the application you want to use and hitting Enter, removing the need to even take your hand away from the keyboard to the mouse (something you'd think people on a keyboard enthusiast forum would welcome), rather than navigate a ponderous list of poorly organised lists and folders (e.g. the Start Menu).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: quickcrx702 on Mon, 27 May 2013, 15:26:12
Windows 8 really isn't that bad once you get used to it.  It is obviously more useful on a tablet, but is only a minor annoyance to use on a desktop.  If you want to bash on the UI, I would bash Windows 8's big brother, Server 2012, which shares the interface and is complete stupidity.  Why Microsoft would make a SERVER OS look like a tablet interface is just beyond me, and not having a start menu when you are remotely connected(who the F hooks up a monitor/keyboard to a server?) is pretty annoying.  When you press the windows key in certain remote applications, it sends it to your desktop as well as the remote desktop, so it gets annoying.  Same thing with having to drag your mouse to the corner, there isn't a hard boundary like on your actual desktop, and you end up dragging the mouse outside of the remote window. 
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: davkol on Mon, 27 May 2013, 15:58:01
Actually, server UI (both CLI and GUI) has never been really usable in MS Windows. Have I mentioned the DNS wizard that still causes me nighmares?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: quickcrx702 on Tue, 28 May 2013, 13:42:04
I never really had any issues with prior versions of Windows server OS.  Not only did they F up the UI, but now there is all sorts of stupid stuff that you have to do that was previously unneeded.  Example, to set the RDS server to per user or per computer, you have to change the setting in Group policy, not in the TS/RDS admin utility where it has always been done in the past.  It's stupid.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: baldgye on Tue, 28 May 2013, 14:06:06
launching programs can be done more quickly using the Start Button, typing the first few letters of the application you want to use and hitting Enter

This can be done in Win7 (and is how I use it)... the problem with Win8 is how it sorts its app's and puts a priority on metro apps and metro settings menus for no obvious reason. Giving the start menu more functionality is a good thing, but the Start menu in Win8 isn't designed to work on a desktop and simply dsnt work.
The reason alot of people pin stuff to the task bar (imo) is because MS is horrible at teaching users how to use there OS and simply assume people know that you can winkey+type to search for literally anything... the number of people I come across looking in sub menu's on the start button for a program they are looking for...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Tue, 28 May 2013, 14:33:40
I know it's old, but it's a fun argument and the last response was full of holes (https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/assets/FallaciesPosterHigherRes.jpg) so I'll bite

I believe that an Earth free from all human life could be a worthwhile pursuit.  Let's go ahead and test this one out, too!

Strawman.
I can't believe you just equated trying out a new UI paradigm with human specicide, because that is certainly not what I was doing.

Quote
Saying that something is due for a change without qualification is the same as suggesting that all change is good.

Strawman/Slippery Slope.
No, no it's not. It was said in a specific context. I didn't say "something" or "anything", but "Microsoft Windows". I was specific.

Quote
I have no idea why you cannot see this, especially since you are referring to a "rationally defensible basis."

Ad Hominem/Personal Incredulity.
You brought up (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=38042.msg761542#msg761542) "rationally defensible", I was just attempting to respond in kind.

Quote
I think you have conflated rationality with your own irrational emotional attachment to something you can't necessarily explain.  It's okay, you're just an organism existing in relation to your environment; it's difficult to come to terms with this.

Ad Hominem.
Resorting to personal attacks doesn't really help your argument here. I'd be happy to discuss this calmly and rationally, but I have no interest in debating this on a personal level.

Quote
The reason a Start Menu is superior, or the concept thereof, is because it represents a hierarchy.

No fallacy here, just pure opinion (except the part about the Start Menu being a hierarchy, that's technically true).

Quote
A hierarchy can be sorted by function, or whatever.

Many other things can be sorted by function, not just hierarchies. A grid of tiles can be sorted by function as well. Indeed, Windows 8's start tiles generally are arranged by function (Programs/Settings/Files).

Quote
If you wanted to do that with an unsightly slathering of tiles, it would necessarily require more space to accomplish, and is thus inferior.

It wouldn't necessarily require more space. It just happens to take up more space in Windows 8 than the start menu in Windows 7 did. Calling that inferior though is personal opinion. Which you are entitled to, as I am to hold the opposite opinion.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Internetlad on Tue, 28 May 2013, 15:15:32
didn't realize this thread got ressurected.

Either way i'm still using Win8 and it's still going strong. Biggest valid complaints i've heard are why it opens photos / music / videos in the apps, which can all be sidestepped by "Always open with" and opening them with the photo viewer or media player classic, and why the shut down button is hidden away (I've heard this is because people tend not to shut their computers down anymore, they either close a laptop and it goes to sleep/hibernates or leave a desktop and it goes to sleep/hibernates.)

as far as missing the start menu, I don't. You can reach most any program you want with the search by tapping the winkey and typing the first 3 letters of the program which will bring it up (or if not it because the name is similar, then in the list)

Other than that, stability wise, it's as stable and efficient as windows 7, if not more so. I have no issues with it.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: DamienG on Tue, 28 May 2013, 16:56:23
as far as missing the start menu, I don't. You can reach most any program you want with the search by tapping the winkey and typing the first 3 letters of the program which will bring it up (or if not it because the name is similar, then in the list)
Yeah I don't get that either. On previous versions of Windows I hit the Windows key or clicked bottom left of my screen and got a small start menu.

Now I get one that's full-screen with better keyboard navigation and app icons that can display info.

[)amien

Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Ninjerk on Wed, 29 May 2013, 19:22:19
I hated the interface right away. Everyone who complains about Windows 8 is thrown off by them. Yeah, you can get used to them, but I'd rather they have been optional.

So just about everyone I know using Windows 8 loaded ClassicShell. Other than that, not bad. Pretty nice start up time.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: DamienG on Fri, 31 May 2013, 01:04:32
The reality is people don't like change (unless the one before was truly awful).

Same thing happens every time Facebook do a big UI update - people complain they hate the new, loved the old. Unlike Windows 8 there's no hack to get the old one back so people actually use it, come to like it. Then start all over again... the amusing thing being now that the old one they love the next time round was the new one they hated.

I went with the Windows 8 UI, gave it a chance now love it.

I didn't like the GMail priority inbox and switched it back immediately. About a year later I gave it a chance, now quite like it.

Chrome on Windows menu spacing felt crazy on a recent build and I tried to figure out how to change it back. Couldn't. A couple of weeks later and I'm completely used to it.

Not always progress though. Moved to Android from Windows Phone and the WP start menu really is a lot better than the stock Android 4.2 launcher. The latter may be more customizable but I spend more time flicking through little icons to try and find something out. Reminds me of my iPhone 3G.

[)amien
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: cytoSiN on Fri, 28 June 2013, 08:56:54
(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-RrTj8nL/0/950x10000/i-RrTj8nL-950x10000.jpg)
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 02 July 2013, 14:33:19
i use windows 8 at home on my gaming rig and i have a test box with windows 8 i use at work. i love it. frankly if people cant figure out the UI or complain about it i label them as "stupid" rather than the OS. It took me 3 minutes to get use to and the benefits greatly outweigh any cons for gaming.

lol dont even get me started when i hear my coworkers complain about it. ****ing luddites need to learn how to evolve. you can be a tech and server tech and be good at your job, but to not expect OS evolution during your career is ****ing retarded. and fighting OS evolution is even dumber.  it is life. techs need to quickly adapt technology and teach others, it is what we are supposed to do. that is why we are paid. to refuse to use something new instantly tarnishes your reputation to me.

 basically this whole thing reminds me of the release of windows 95. everyone complained about the new UI of windows.  history repeats itself and all those techs who talked **** in '95 ate their words. looks like the second entree is ready...
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: daerid on Wed, 03 July 2013, 15:08:27
Yup. Also don't forget the wailing and crying that happened when XP came out.

The main problem now is not that Windows has changed it's UI, it's that Mac has increased in consumer mind-share to the point where it's a viable alternative in people's minds. Which was never the case before, so back in the '95 and XP days, people grumbled, but didn't have any alternative so they didn't ***** as loudly because there was nothing to point to and say "see? They got it right". The landscape is incredibly different nowadays (hell, even Ubuntu is a viable desktop OS these days).
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: iAmAhab on Wed, 03 July 2013, 15:40:59
Somebody here should know this. How the **** do you turn of a computer running win 8?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: SeriouSSpotS on Wed, 03 July 2013, 15:57:40
I don't mind windows 8, I wouldn't use it as a desktop though I use it on a laptop.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: DamienG on Wed, 03 July 2013, 15:57:41
Move the mouse to the bottom right or press Windows-C to get the standard system charms.

Hit settings, power, shutdown.

[)amien
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 03 July 2013, 16:41:28
'Cause they don't have touchscreens.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: iAmAhab on Wed, 03 July 2013, 16:48:32
Move the mouse to the bottom right or press Windows-C to get the standard system charms.

Hit settings, power, shutdown.

[)amien

Ah, thats about as intuitive as the other solution i finally found; log out and finally there is a shutdown button.
This is but one of the reasons I bloody despise windows 8.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: DamienG on Wed, 03 July 2013, 21:39:55
The charms menu is where all the system-wide stuff is for windows 8.

It has a settings option as that's where all the system, settings, personalization stuff is.

At the bottom it has power. Alongside volume, network and brightness.

It's perfectly logical. Just not what you're used to.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 03 July 2013, 21:53:30
Shutdown, easiest way for me is Alt+F4 when at the desktop brings up the shutdown dialog.
I am over most of my hate now, the only thing that still pisses me off is the metro apps that go full screen when I want to be multitasking. Still need to bother to change program defaults to alternates to get rid of that last annoyance. All the UI things that pissed me off I have figured out how to change by now with resource hacking. Also the small changes they made with 8.1 I find vastly superior to 8. I will probably wait for 8.1 to go RTM before I switch from 7 on my main PC though.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: quickcrx702 on Wed, 03 July 2013, 22:05:13
Somebody here should know this. How the **** do you turn of a computer running win 8?

LOL that's what I wondered at first.  Drag your mouse to one of the right corners, and there is a way to do if from there.  However, I ended up doing start->cmd-> "shutdown /s /f /t 1" because that's how I reboot remote computers(but I use the /r instead of /s switch for remote reboots).  LOL I've had notepad or other stupid stuff kill remote reboots done via the start menu because they didn't close, and I would have to call someone on site to close some stupid programs.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 03 July 2013, 22:10:12
Yes that is annoying, which is why I do it the way I said as the PC I have with 8.1 is my home server which I do everything with via RDP and it never ****s up.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: quickcrx702 on Wed, 03 July 2013, 22:14:03
(hell, even Ubuntu is a viable desktop OS these days).

LOL.  I used to hate Ubuntu, because I preferred power distros like Arch or Gentoo, but I'm too busy these days to care about editing config files or changing compile options.  Ubuntu is pretty much the Windows of the Linux world, and it's starting to grow on me.  OSX is for people that hate windows, but aren't able to learn linux.  Linux is for people who hate Windows, but are more tech savvy.  Honestly I didn't find Windows 8 too bad, but Server 2012 made me absolutely hate the interface.  Again, why Microsoft would design a SERVER OS optimized for a touch screen is just beyond me, especially when almost NOBODY accesses a server with a keyboard and mouse, and everyone uses a RDP client with no hard screen boundaries.  It's just silly.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Hak Foo on Wed, 03 July 2013, 23:55:23
Windows 8 is the first version I've had grief with activation.

I flashed my BIOS and it is now convinced it's on a different machine.  Vista and 7 never balked on this.  While it's possible the flash was unusual (MSI switched from an AMI to an Award BIOS or vice-versa mid-way through this board's life), it should still be able to find plenty of "I'm on the same machine" hints.
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: Zustiur on Fri, 05 July 2013, 23:01:01
I realize this is from pages ago, but I just had to respond...
I think to an average user the only difference would be that the traditional start menu is missing. But...is it really that bad? Do you really use it THAT often to find a program you installed or something?
YES. Yes I do.

I haven't got 8 purely because my upgrade cycle isn't due for a new OS. However, having tinkered with it on my brother's laptop, I can pretty safely say that the lack of win7 style start menu would drive me bats... At least until I learn all the exe names for programs to use with winkey+r like I used to do in XP... you know, before win 7 gave me a better solution. *sigh*
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: TheProfosist on Fri, 05 July 2013, 23:05:17
I realize this is from pages ago, but I just had to respond...
I think to an average user the only difference would be that the traditional start menu is missing. But...is it really that bad? Do you really use it THAT often to find a program you installed or something?
YES. Yes I do.

I haven't got 8 purely because my upgrade cycle isn't due for a new OS. However, having tinkered with it on my brother's laptop, I can pretty safely say that the lack of win7 style start menu would drive me bats... At least until I learn all the exe names for programs to use with winkey+r like I used to do in XP... you know, before win 7 gave me a better solution. *sigh*

just set the start screen to bring up All Apps/Programs instead this should be an option in 8.1 if not already in 8. Or if you really need the start menu get something like Start8. Also how many programs do you use on a regular basis that arnt pinned to the taskbar or a shortcut on the desktop?
Title: Re: Why does everybody bash Windows 8 so much?
Post by: vatin on Sat, 06 July 2013, 00:34:53
To all whiners about metro/modern interface. Install the free Classic Shell app and lock your system down to desktop interface only. Nuff said. It'll give you the start menu and all that.