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geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:43:30

Title: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:43:30
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/sandy-hook-elementary-school-shooting_n_2300831.html

All on and off-duty CT police called to the scene.

I have no words. 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:48:10
What a horrible, horrible tragedy. Can't imagine how sick one has to be to do something like this.

Inevitably gun control will be discussed. My thoughts are thus: if concealed carry by responsible faculty/admin was allowed, some of these deaths could have arguably been avoided. I feel the same way about Columbine and many other school shootings.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: boost on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:48:39
Reading about this on CNN. This is a very very sad and ****ed up.

My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this.
Title: Re: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:51:42
Reading about this on CNN. This is a very very sad and ****ed up.

My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this.

Agreed. Absolutely devastating and this will be a very difficult thing to recover from.

Speaking from personal experience, recovery will be a journey. Not a destination.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:55:22
These are children.  The essence of innocence...

Still at a loss for words... this is just too awful, and too close to home.

And to think of all the children that witnessed this...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: boost on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:57:05
These are children.

k-4th grade kids.  :*(
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:58:11
They will need counseling for many years. No doubt of that.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: hotlikedimes on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:59:04
Some friends in the CT area posted about this earlier... such a shame, this close to the holidays... Thoughts go out to the families..

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: boost on Fri, 14 December 2012, 12:59:44
They will need counseling for many years. No doubt of that.

Any if they got the shooter(s)?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:03:23
Any if they got the shooter(s)?

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/14/shooting-reported-at-connecticut-elementary-school/?hpt=hp_t1
Shooter is dead, another person potentially involved is in custody.

Local radio station 99.1 WPLR is covering the story live.

http://streaming.wplr.com/_players/coxradio/index.php?callsign=WPLRFM

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:06:50
Latest news is that an entire class is still unaccounted for...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: boost on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:09:33
Latest news is that an entire class is still unaccounted for...

WTF...streaming the station in a few minutes
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:09:46
I hate it when they commit suicide the moment they meet resistance. They deserve so much more.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:11:05
I hate it when they commit suicide the moment they meet resistance. They deserve so much more.

He's dead.  May his soul burn in hell for all eternity...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: asdf on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:12:47
Thanks for the radio link. Good way to hear some local stuff
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 13:18:14
This is scary enough for all the adults involved, I can't imagine what the kids are going through...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: aggiejy on Fri, 14 December 2012, 14:09:25
Man I have a kid in kindergarden.  This is so disturbing.  Makes me want to lock him in the house.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: SmallFry on Fri, 14 December 2012, 14:18:50
Jesus... condolences to the families...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Sifo on Fri, 14 December 2012, 14:19:52
wow wtf...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: laffindude on Fri, 14 December 2012, 14:25:11
What is wrong with the world today.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 14 December 2012, 14:54:40
Nothing to be said about this that everybody else isn't thinking already. This person (man, presumably) must have been severely disturbed.

I'm just wondering how he killed nearly 30 people. Had to be premeditated.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 14 December 2012, 15:08:13
Man I have a kid in kindergarden.  This is so disturbing.  Makes me want to lock him in the house.

same here.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: fruktstund on Fri, 14 December 2012, 15:15:09
This is just too horrible. It's crazy there are sick people like this out there.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: inlikeflynn on Fri, 14 December 2012, 15:22:00
this is absolutely horrible. There is nothing that can even be said for those poor kids and their family. As a father with young kids, it is just unbelievable to think something like this would ever happen in an elementary school. I'm just sick thinking about this
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Fri, 14 December 2012, 16:47:59
My thoughts and prayers are with the childrens' and teachers' families who were involved in this horrific event.

Every time I hear of these school shootings, I keep thinking...this kind of stuff never used to happen. A friend of mine even brought his gun to school back in the 1950's to go hunting during recess.  Nobody could even imagine such a sickening tragedy as this. The cause? I'm sure there's a million of 'em. There is no simple solution for a problem such as this. But I do feel that if at least a few members of the school staff were armed and properly trained with weapons, the death toll could have been much less. Schools here in America are absolutely defenseless with the way they handle weapons.

Something big needs to change in the way schools work to prevent to these events. Their current policy just simply does now work. Schools have suspended and expelled children for having images of guns, lego guns, origami knives, plastic swords...how many of killings have those actions prevented? Lego guns don't kill people; criminals and madmen armed with real ones do. How many more children do we need to watch be killed in order to do something? How many bright futures of people do we need to watch be destroyed? Just think about that.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Fri, 14 December 2012, 18:15:31
Seriously, shut up about the politics behind this.  That's the last thing we should be discussing right now.  The families of the 26 innocent people killed today is all that should be on our minds.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 19:28:53
This is just too horrible. It's crazy there are sick people like this out there.

what's crazy is there is no help for these sick people.

also what needs to change is how the news handles this.

we do not need 24 hours of coverage. we do not need to know the last thing the shooter ate, how many times he took a **** that day and need less crap they bring up for the sake of ratings.



the news makes these shooters out as quick celebrities. and kids/adults see this as a way of making a name fpr themselves. the video explain exactly what is wrong with the coverage. also this quote from Ebert:

Quote
Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.
The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."
In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: razorsharpgears on Fri, 14 December 2012, 19:31:06
This is horrible. Let those poor children rest in peace.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: uJalled on Fri, 14 December 2012, 19:54:26
I live very close to the area of the shooting, and until now, Newtown CT was considered very safe. This is truly devastating news. There are no words.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:06:03
As another person that lives right down the road from Newtown, this has changed nothing about my idea of Newtown's 'safeness' level.  It also doesn't change how I feel in my own town.  These are the kinds of events that do not in any way reflect the type of town they end up happening in.

The unfortunate truth is that while the security *standards* at schools in this area have been enough to stop this from happening for some time now, the level of compliance by those responsible is lacking.  The doors are locked and you must get buzzed in by the secretary, but quite often they don't pay attention to who is at the door.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:33:50
Hmm... They always seem to be after really young children.. You'd think that losing PHD math students would be more devastating to society...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:37:21
For all you know we just lost some. 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: singaporean123 on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:39:22
complete removal of firearms would've made a huge difference
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: precarious on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:42:15
complete removal of firearms would've made a huge difference

complete removal of human beings would've made a huge difference
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:46:32
complete removal of firearms would've made a huge difference

not true.

better gun control would help. but removable wouldn't.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:53:38
For all you know we just lost some. 

HIGHLY unlikely.....  However if they shot up the math department of any ivyleague, that would be certain lose of immense brain power.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 20:55:34
it's like you go out of your way to be a complete jackass tp4.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: ekw808 on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:06:17
Its not his fault he doesn't "feel" anything.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:10:39
As another person that lives right down the road from Newtown, this has changed nothing about my idea of Newtown's 'safeness' level.  It also doesn't change how I feel in my own town.  These are the kinds of events that do not in any way reflect the type of town they end up happening in.

The unfortunate truth is that while the security *standards* at schools in this area have been enough to stop this from happening for some time now, the level of compliance by those responsible is lacking.  The doors are locked and you must get buzzed in by the secretary, but quite often they don't pay attention to who is at the door.

I would think that unless the standards actually included compulsory pat downs, he still would have had little trouble getting into the school as he was a son of one of the teachers, correct?  I don't know about you, but when I visit my mom at work, I'm recognized and associated with familiar and safe.  /shrug

Things should be scrutinized, of course, but this seems more like a freak occurrence than a complete failure of a system put in place.

For all you know we just lost some. 

HIGHLY unlikely.....  However if they shot up the math department of any ivyleague, that would be certain lose of immense brain power.

As for you, it's like you want to be ripster 2.0 and that's all the energy I'll put into it.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:12:23
His mom wasn't at work, turns out the body at home was mom. 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:17:13
His mom wasn't at work, turns out the body at home was mom.

Sure, and again, this isn't a justification for lax security, but it's easy for him to say "Yeah, my mom asked me to grab some things from her classroom, she's not feeling well, she asked me to get x for her"

I don't watch any news (I don't have any tv service, in fact) and I try to avoid news feeds as I end up in the comments and those are about /b levels of ignorance at best, but my roommate had a theory that seems to ring true; What would be the easiest way to hurt his mom the most?  Go after her class.

This man seems to have been very broken and now because of the tragedy that he's unleashed, people need to make sense of it, which is part of the deconstruction process of the 24/7 news cycle.  That and the fact that fears sells better than anything else ever.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: alaricljs on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:18:32
Very broken since she was dead before he went after the class so if that was his idea he didn't think it through.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:21:57
Very broken since she was dead before he went after the class so if that was his idea he didn't think it through.

I want to analyze and argue minutiae on this more because I'm a puzzle solver, but it seems rather pointless.  The facts will remain the same no matter how much people try to think things through and because of that, I think I'm done.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Internetlad on Fri, 14 December 2012, 21:50:34
Makes me long for the time when we got the newspaper once a day, instead of having to ingest stories like this 24/7 on facebook, twitter, every news site and from all your freinds texting you all day long "did you hear. . . "

Not saying we should bury our heads in the sand to stories like this, but it's senseless to have it shoved down our throats constantly. Making me depressed. There's nothing to be done now. Let the families mourn and move on.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: ekw808 on Fri, 14 December 2012, 22:12:16
I think chris rock said it best, bullet should be $1000 each, there would no longer be any innocent bystanders that get hurt or unintentional victims. 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: singaporean123 on Fri, 14 December 2012, 22:39:45
complete removal of firearms would've made a huge difference

not true.

better gun control would help. but removable wouldn't.

Why not? IMO it's more difficult to kill the innocent with a pocket knife than with a gun.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: singaporean123 on Fri, 14 December 2012, 22:47:04
I think chris rock said it best, bullet should be $1000 each, there would no longer be any innocent bystanders that get hurt or unintentional victims.

+ Psychiatric evaluation to be done once every 6 months, etc.

Since there's a firearm industry, if they shut it all down I think a number of people would be out of jobs(considering that the producers don't produce the same guns for the military)

But something as powerful as a firearm that can be used by anyone should not be so easily obtainable
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: asdf on Fri, 14 December 2012, 22:53:53
I think you meant today, dante.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-china.html
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 22:57:30
I am with people who don't like guns, even though I own them. In fact, I wish there wasn't a single possible method for any human to hurt or kill another human being which existed. But unfortunately, this is not the case.

Sadly, there is not nor will there ever be a single gun control law which actually hinders criminals. In fact, nearly every gun control we already have enables them. Every school is a gun-free zone, which means teachers with guns in their cars have to park far away and no good citizens who work there can concealed-carry. Concealed-carry laws make it so honest citizens cannot carry guns in places where criminals can. Strict measures on purchasing guns make it FAR easier for Joe Criminal to just go to his buddy down the street to buy his weapon.

Deadly weapons are an unfortunate reality of life. Just ask the U.S. government - they kill children in the middle east all the time. But you never hear Americans freaking out over them. The point of the second amendment is that the ability of citizens to arm themselves is literally their last defense against tyranny. So if you want good citizens to disarm, I say fine, but we must start with the government first. Let's disarm our national "defense" which is murdering people in foreign countries and making us less safe. And let's disarm our police too...not all cops are good and there are arguably a lot more sheepdogs in society, who aren't cops, who would do whatever it took to save someone's life if they didn't have to be concerned about being sued or going to jail.

The only difference between government and criminals is that when the government commits crime, we legitimize it.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:00:51
complete removal of firearms would've made a huge difference

not true.

better gun control would help. but removable wouldn't.

Why not? IMO it's more difficult to kill the innocent with a pocket knife than with a gun.


because you can still acquire guns illegally? you also have the pro-gun side saying (and they have a point) "well, if we could CCW (carry a concealed weapon), somebody would have stopped it."

as you stated, a psych evaluation should be mandatory. a simple "oh, you aren't a felon just pay the fee" isnt enough IMO.

FTR, I'm not a pro-gun NRA nut. But I'm not against them either. If a person wants to cause damage, they'll find a way.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: ekw808 on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:01:50
I don't think guns are the problem, people are. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: precarious on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:04:51
as you stated, a psych evaluation should be mandatory. a simple "oh, you aren't a felon just pay the fee" isnt enough IMO.

FTR, I'm not a pro-gun NRA nut. But I'm not against them either. If a person wants to cause damage, they'll find a way.

The problem with this statement is the supposition that a "psych evaluation" necessarily exists in a wholly valid and practical implementation.  Any realistic approach to this would inevitably result in as many false positives as the current system allows for ostensibly "unfit" firearms owners.

The "if a person wants to cause damage, they'll find a way" bit is especially supportive of the sentiment that there should be no "psych evaluation," since ultimately any individual who is organized enough will pass any tests which any common dullard would be able to similarly satisfy.

In short, life sucks and is gay and is only for ***s 'cause we all just ham hocks waitin' to get popped on the block.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:06:28
true.

but it's just one more step somebody would have to go through. but as i stated, if a person wants to cause harm there are many other ways that don't involve a gun.

one way we could slow down these shootings is by not giving them the attention they currently get. the news, be it left/right or middle does absolutely no good airing the same thing over and over again. they give the shooters a celebrity status. and for what? most of the time, not for a damn thing.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:07:52
If a person wants to cause damage, they'll find a way.

I like Ice-T's point on this.

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:12:34
If a person wants to cause damage, they'll find a way.

I like Ice-T's point on this.


yeah, i can tell. you used the same tyranny line.

Quote
In short, life sucks and is gay and is only for ***s 'cause we all just ham hocks waitin' to get popped on the block.

am i missing something here?

edit* so i googled that line and the first hit was "all black people should be killed" now what the **** are you talking about?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:15:23
Well the "tyranny line" is not just a line though - it's true. Americans should disarm only when the government disarms.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:16:26
complete removal of firearms would've made a huge difference

not true.

better gun control would help. but removable wouldn't.

Why not? IMO it's more difficult to kill the innocent with a pocket knife than with a gun.


because you can still acquire guns illegally? you also have the pro-gun side saying (and they have a point) "well, if we could CCW (carry a concealed weapon), somebody would have stopped it."

as you stated, a psych evaluation should be mandatory. a simple "oh, you aren't a felon just pay the fee" isnt enough IMO.

FTR, I'm not a pro-gun NRA nut. But I'm not against them either. If a person wants to cause damage, they'll find a way.

You've nailed it on the head, demik, because if I'm remembering right, the gun used was owned by his mother legally.  What that means is that even though the weapons went through the proper channels and was owned by a upstanding person, this still happened.

I am with people who don't like guns, even though I own them. In fact, I wish there wasn't a single possible method for any human to hurt or kill another human being which existed. But unfortunately, this is not the case.

Sadly, there is not nor will there ever be a single gun control law which actually hinders criminals. In fact, nearly every gun control we already have enables them. Every school is a gun-free zone, which means teachers with guns in their cars have to park far away and no good citizens who work there can concealed-carry. Concealed-carry laws make it so honest citizens cannot carry guns in places where criminals can. Strict measures on purchasing guns make it FAR easier for Joe Criminal to just go to his buddy down the street to buy his weapon.

Deadly weapons are an unfortunate reality of life. Just ask the U.S. government - they kill children in the middle east all the time. But you never hear Americans freaking out over them. The point of the second amendment is that the ability of citizens to arm themselves is literally their last defense against tyranny. So if you want good citizens to disarm, I say fine, but we must start with the government first. Let's disarm our national "defense" which is murdering people in foreign countries and making us less safe. And let's disarm our police too...not all cops are good and there are arguably a lot more sheepdogs in society, who aren't cops, who would do whatever it took to save someone's life if they didn't have to be concerned about being sued or going to jail.

The only difference between government and criminals is that when the government commits crime, we legitimize it.

I have issues with parts of this.  I can't put my finger on why I have these issues, but it's like a primal ...thing in the back of my mind.  I don't agree with America, as a nation, being the world police that it's come to today and I'm not saying that children aren't caught in the tragedy or that those lives are somehow less than US children's, but just something about how you say "kill children in the middle east all the time" like  the aim of the military involvement in the middle east is to kill children, rubs me the wrong way, much like the picture posted in another thread.

One point, as well, about the good Samaritan thing:  that is just an escalating scenario where it starts with two dudes fist fighting and the stronger/more experienced fighter wins, which leads to one trying to cheat with an improvised weapon (as all weapons started as) which leads to more and more until we're right back where we started. 

Well the "tyranny line" is not just a line though - it's true. Americans should disarms only when the government disarms.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:21:30
Quote
I have issues with parts of this.  I can't put my finger on why I have these issues, but it's like a primal ...thing in the back of my mind.  I don't agree with America, as a nation, being the world police that it's come to today and I'm not saying that children aren't caught in the tragedy or that those lives are somehow less than US children's, but just something about how you say "kill children in the middle east all the time" like  the aim of the military involvement in the middle east is to kill children, rubs me the wrong way, much like the picture posted in another thread.

eh, you'll be wasting your time arguing with him.

all government is evil blah blah blah.

i honestly don't see why that government rant was even in this thread but meh.

also, another example of scum bag media.

fox news pushing their religion propaganda in light of this event.

"if we were closer to jesus this wouldn't have happened" "if we allowed church in school we'd be better"

shut the **** up fox, this isn't the time or place for your bull****.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:23:01
I have issues with parts of this.  I can't put my finger on why I have these issues, but it's like a primal ...thing in the back of my mind.  I don't agree with America, as a nation, being the world police that it's come to today and I'm not saying that children aren't caught in the tragedy or that those lives are somehow less than US children's, but just something about how you say "kill children in the middle east all the time" like  the aim of the military involvement in the middle east is to kill children, rubs me the wrong way, much like the picture posted in another thread.

Dude, you need to look up about the drone bombings - it is like playing a video game with real people. They are murdering entire families over there. If you think they are trying to kill terrorists, I understand your position - but WHO is the terrorist? To me the terrorist can easily be seen as the guy who with most guns who is doing the most killing.

That's us, dude.

i honestly don't see why that government rant was even in this thread but meh.

It wasn't a rant - it was a valid point about the second amendment, and tjcaustin agreed with me about it!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:30:31
Quote
The only difference between government and criminals is that when the government commits crime, we legitimize it.

definitely not a rant.

definitely.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:31:17
Can you effectively refute my logic Mr. Demik?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:34:03
this is not the time or place to shoot out your anti gov libertarian views.

that is what im getting at.

you want to continue your obama bashing/government hating agenda, there is the obama thread or make your own thread.

we are talking about what happened today and what we think could have been done to prevent it. and you want to bring up ****ing drones.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:35:49
It's a debate about gun control so it makes sense to talk about the entire point of the second amendment, which the sentence of mine you quoted directly addresses. The point of the second amendment is to protect us from crimes of the government, which are legitimized because it is government. That is a fact that has nothing to do with my political views.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:36:52
Quote
and you want to bring up ****ing drones.

because THAT has to do with the shooting today.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:37:49
Well yea of course right? Because it speaks to my point about  the second amendment and crimes of the government.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:39:02
now im starting to understand what malphas keeps saying.

oh well, i almost forgot why i have you blocked.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: DanGWanG on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:39:53
C'mon bros....politics aside, kids died today.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:44:39
C'mon bros....politics aside, kids died today.

But see it is political though...it always is. It ANGERS me to see Obama go on tv and weep fake tears over American children killed when he simply goes back to killing innocent Arab children with drones. That ain't right dude. That ain't right at all. What's the difference between murder and foreign policy? This all goes back to my point about the second amendment. Everything is "ok" when the government does it.

now im starting to understand what malphas keeps saying.

If you're understanding malphas, I think we need to get back to discussing the importance of proper mental health identification and treatment.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: MMB on Fri, 14 December 2012, 23:48:22
*rolls eyes.....*
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: laffindude on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:08:32
It is time for healing. I really hate to see politics, what-ifs, and especially disagreements amongst ourselves. There will be plenty of time for that later. We're angry, we're hurting, and we want answers. Lets just focus on good thoughts for now, especially for those that will carry the scars from this incident for the rest of their lives.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: akuJIWA on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:08:56
My god.. This is just sick.. My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this. The world is just so ****ed up nowadays.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:11:02
My god.. This is just sick.. My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this. The world is just so ****ed up nowadays.

hate to break it to you but, the world has always been ****ed up.

we just have more media coverage to bring it to your ears and eyes.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:12:20
Rip to the people that have died today in the shooting. Prayers go out to the family this holiday season.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: MissMurd3r84 on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:14:15
And in other news, in China today a mentally ill man went on a knife spree stabbing kids in a school o.0

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: akuJIWA on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:25:58
My god.. This is just sick.. My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this. The world is just so ****ed up nowadays.

hate to break it to you but, the world has always been ****ed up.

we just have more media coverage to bring it to your ears and eyes.

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:28:35
Quote
I have issues with parts of this.  I can't put my finger on why I have these issues, but it's like a primal ...thing in the back of my mind.  I don't agree with America, as a nation, being the world police that it's come to today and I'm not saying that children aren't caught in the tragedy or that those lives are somehow less than US children's, but just something about how you say "kill children in the middle east all the time" like  the aim of the military involvement in the middle east is to kill children, rubs me the wrong way, much like the picture posted in another thread.

eh, you'll be wasting your time arguing with him.

snip

I'm not even sure I'm arguing with him.  I think my libertarian leanings are a bit less severe, but I think that the current US government model is horribly broken.  But I also know that the government I want wouldn't work in today's world as there's a reason it failed nearly 100 years ago now with the Great Depression.  I still hope that our military strategy can go back to pre-world war status of "Don't mess with the US directly and we aren't in your business" but I know that's a pipe dream as well.

And I think that's what it is.  He says the things I want but feel or know aren't possible with such conviction that it bothers me.

I have issues with parts of this.  I can't put my finger on why I have these issues, but it's like a primal ...thing in the back of my mind.  I don't agree with America, as a nation, being the world police that it's come to today and I'm not saying that children aren't caught in the tragedy or that those lives are somehow less than US children's, but just something about how you say "kill children in the middle east all the time" like  the aim of the military involvement in the middle east is to kill children, rubs me the wrong way, much like the picture posted in another thread.

Dude, you need to look up about the drone bombings - it is like playing a video game with real people. They are murdering entire families over there. If you think they are trying to kill terrorists, I understand your position - but WHO is the terrorist? To me the terrorist can easily be seen as the guy who with most guns who is doing the most killing.

That's us, dude.

See and I want to disagree about the terrorist thing, but I can't.  The military machine has, since essentially the fall of Berlin and the Axis, continued to manufacture some generic and amorphous fear to strengthen support at home for what are essentially violations of the Bill of Rights. In a perfect world, the old Teddy Roosevelt ideology would be the maximum of military presence for my comfort.

Quote

It wasn't a rant - it was a valid point about the second amendment, and tjcaustin agreed with me about it!

This is true, I agree with a lot of the broad strokes of what you say.  It's just there are things about what you say that make me uncomfortable.  I don't want, and for the most part refuse to, believe that the current US government has become the evil that it claims to prevent.


C'mon bros....politics aside, kids died today.

But see it is political though...it always is. It ANGERS me to see Obama go on tv and weep fake tears over American children killed when he simply goes back to killing innocent Arab children with drones. That ain't right dude. That ain't right at all. What's the difference between murder and foreign policy? This all goes back to my point about the second amendment. Everything is "ok" when the government does it.

This is an ideology problem between the two of us, I think.  I believe that Obama does care about what's happened here at home just as strongly as I believe that children aren't the target of these drone assaults even though drone attacks shouldn't have the collateral damage they have.  On the other hand, the enemy that instigated this decade plus involvement isn't a traditional enemy either and has proven cunning enough that the deaths of these children could be used to try and stir unrest and upheaval here at home to shatter us from within.  This does not negate the fact that the children and even some adults that have died aren't innocent, but further reinforces that war is *not* good or just.

From here, I'm not comfortable using this as a platform for anything. 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sat, 15 December 2012, 00:29:50
My god.. This is just sick.. My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this. The world is just so ****ed up nowadays.

hate to break it to you but, the world has always been ****ed up.

we just have more media coverage to bring it to your ears and eyes.

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 15 December 2012, 02:08:47
My god.. This is just sick.. My condolences goes out to all of the families affected by this. The world is just so ****ed up nowadays.

hate to break it to you but, the world has always been ****ed up.

we just have more media coverage to bring it to your ears and eyes.


Your signature says t all.
Put your differences aside. Most people don't understand, see and a lot of the times would disagree, but truth is we are all living animals with a conscience. If we just realize that we are organisms made of tissues and cells, most people "know" that but don't understand what they know. Take out your bias and take out your attachment. We are noting more than material, think I am wrong? Press your hands against your stomach, can you visualize anything under the skin? Try your head, jaw, hand... There is something under your skin and it is not an "everlasting soul". Who is going to remember you when you die one hundred years from now. One hundred years ago we had almost two billion, now we have a little more than seven billion. Chances are that we won't make an impact on the people of the future but if we treat the people we meet today with respect and love each other for just the fact we all have to live in this world and suffer the same pains.

Stop hating the things you do not have or the people that have what you want or the people you think is keeping what you want from you. Love what you have and love the the next person, no one asked to be in this world.

The "world" is all your perception, but if you make someone else's perception your's, your perception becomes the "world's".
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 15 December 2012, 02:50:55
My heart and thoughts go out to the families and the community. I hope the consoling and grieving contribute to futhering a robust appreciation for the values we hold dear and why we must care for others as if they serve a more integral part in our daily lives.


Regarding other matters in this thread, I noted some strong-ish viewpoints, and the rational behind which I found to be rather interesting. Some of these are thoughts and some are summations or both.

1) The thought of having more gun availability to prevent the usage of more available guns or other weapons/violence, is interesting if not a bit confusing.

2) The tragic story of the 22 people injured in China with a knife makes me think "thank goodness they didn't have a gun". They all survived I believe.

3) The "if it wasn't a gun it would have been something else" theory is also interesting. The "something else" seems like it would be preferable. Wether it be a knife (apparently not as effective as a gun), a bomb (requires perhaps a bit more effort and it's a bit more definitive if you're wearing it), automobile (not very portable, kinda ironic), poison (still a bit of effort and a bit more risky), hitman (requires significant money usually, and you need to be hot for sexual favors to work in lieu of money). Convenience still seems to be a relevant consideration in even the most absurd circumstances/individuals.

4) Would people feel more comfortable knowing there are concealed guns in school (apart from officers)? Would faculty/Admin even want to carry them? That's a lot of responsibility one way or the other. You don't really passively pull a gun on someone, that takes either "crazy" or "trained dedication"(usually). I would also think that you would likely be a target immediately upon brandishing it. Perhaps you might strike more panic in a crazy person who is holding a gun. But then again, "do you feel lucky punk?".

5) Terrorism, war, revenge, and crazy all sure look alike if you're on the recieving end. Yet they all are distinguishable, and readily so most of the time.

6) Does a gun in some way protect you from the government, does it really give you an option now? you vs. police/military.

...If you're understanding malphas, I think we need to get back to discussing the importance of proper mental health identification and treatment.
Absolutely! This will likely take much government involvement to implement as well as continued tax apportionment.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sat, 15 December 2012, 03:02:39
Quote
2) The tragic story of the 22 people injured in China with a knife makes me think "thank goodness they didn't have a gun". They all survived I believe.

to play the devil's advocate.. a bystander could have prevented that incident if they CCW.

again, im for stricter gun control but.. sometimes i CAN see why they'd be necessary.

once again, it's the people not the weapon..
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: clickclack on Sat, 15 December 2012, 03:32:11
But... but... then someone might've been killed! ;)

I hear the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" thing often. But I kinda feel it's honestly a bit moot, since that pertains to just about everything in life. And since we know all things are not equal. You wouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight would you? They do indeed apprently seem necessary at times, officers after all do carry them.

It's true that guns can't stand up, load themselves, hop-hop-hop, and then shoot you. Errr... well I don't think they can. But some things just seem to be much better at devestation than others when in the hands of a child/adult.


I also just noticed that it went from 18 to 20 children. So very, very sad. I just heard an interview from a doctor local to the area. His perspective was chilling. He said that they heard about the incident and quickly prepared for at least a couple dozen patients. But was mortified when only 3 persons arrived. Sadly only one of them was able to make it. These poor people, no one deserves this.

The news media could be a bit kinder though. Stop overly sensationalizing this tradgedy, and stop with the "you heard it hear first" crap. How disrespectful.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Batmann on Sat, 15 December 2012, 03:54:53
Your signature says t all.
Put your differences aside. Most people don't understand, see and a lot of the times would disagree, but truth is we are all living animals with a conscience. If we just realize that we are organisms made of tissues and cells, most people "know" that but don't understand what they know. Take out your bias and take out your attachment. We are noting more than material, think I am wrong? Press your hands against your stomach, can you visualize anything under the skin? Try your head, jaw, hand... There is something under your skin and it is not an "everlasting soul". Who is going to remember you when you die one hundred years from now. One hundred years ago we had almost two billion, now we have a little more than seven billion. Chances are that we won't make an impact on the people of the future but if we treat the people we meet today with respect and love each other for just the fact we all have to live in this world and suffer the same pains.

Stop hating the things you do not have or the people that have what you want or the people you think is keeping what you want from you. Love what you have and love the the next person, no one asked to be in this world.

The "world" is all your perception, but if you make someone else's perception your's, your perception becomes the "world's".

100% true but for some reasons hard to bear in mind,
it's not easy to accept that in the end we are only flesh and bones
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 15 December 2012, 04:37:49
ugh you guys are turning a tragedy into political bs, there's nothing political here, crazy guy wanted to crazy kill ppl/kids. he was going to kill no matter what implement of death he decided to obtain, either by gun, bomb, knife or whatever has been used to kill in the entirety of the human race. ppl who say conceled carry would have prevented this are stupid too, your just gonna end up trading bullets and killing even more ppl.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 07:33:52
So you're saying that a responsible person at that school who was carrying a concealed weapon could NOT have not only saved lives but even possibly defused the entire situation?

Now THAT sounds stupid to me.

You wouldn't bring a knife to a gun fight would you? They do indeed apprently seem necessary at times, officers after all do carry them.

Well that's just it right? If you take the guns away from the good people then only the government and criminals (shades of gray) are the ones who have them. If you wouldn't want to be the only guy in a room filled with bureaucrats and criminals without a gun, then that scenario should not sound good to you either. One could argue that gun control caused this situation to happen, since school campuses are ALL gun-free zones and no one is allowed to legally CCW on them. The entire situation could have been defused if a responsible person there had a gun. That is absolutely true.

And I can tell you that anywhere I am, if a shooting did happen, I'd be hoping to god that someone there wasn't fooled by gun restrictions and the demonization of guns, had a CCW permit, didn't leave the damn thing at home, had it with them and would be ready to save people's lives if and when an incident occurred. I would also hope they wouldn't be so afraid of lawsuits or going to prison in order to save another person's damn life.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: quadibloc on Sat, 15 December 2012, 08:10:47
Seriously, shut up about the politics behind this.  That's the last thing we should be discussing right now.
While there's something to be said for that, naturally the time after a tragedy like this is going to be the time when people's attention will be focused on preventing another tragedy like this.

I think it is true that concealed carry by more responsible citizens would reduce many kinds of crime. But it's also true that some reasonable restrictions to keep guns out of the hands of madmen would help matters - of course drug pushers manage to get guns in spite of gun control, but lone crazies don't have a worldwide smuggling network behind them.

In Canada, the police support our strict gun controls... because they have reduced the number of officers killed handling domestic violence complaints. They have not much reduced the level of the kinds of crimes feared by the ordinary citizen... which was very low in Canada without gun control, and which was lower yet in 1962, back when we were still executing convicted murderers.

A few sensible measures can be taken to reduce gun violence if it's done with the realization that the Second Amendment does help to protect liberty, and should not be vitiated. Americans already know the kind of society they want to live in; they need to have a plan to achieve that kind of society, and the determination to carry it out. (Unfortunately, though, the Pacific Ocean probably won't lend itself to the sort of treatment the Dutch gave the adjacent portions of the North Sea...)

it's not easy to accept that in the end we are only flesh and bones

Well, there you are. Someone once said that the answer is not to make life softer, but to make people tougher. Guns woudn't be a problem if it took more potent weapons, the possession of which still is effectively controled (say, like thermonuclear warheads) to injure human beings.

This wouldn't involve restricting liberty, but adding to it.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 08:20:36
quadibloc, I always liked you :)

Haven't seen you in a while!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 09:08:59
More guns is definitely the solution to this.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Lanx on Sat, 15 December 2012, 09:59:52
conceled carry is for your own personal protection, not a license to roam around and be a vigilante, i'm sure if you have a conceled carry, then you are trained in some manner to use that weapon for protection, of yourself, i doubt anyone is prepared to use it as assault, since the scenerio is some teach outside of there would have a conceled carry and then upon hearing the gunshots go all dirty harry. conceled carry is for your own protection, not "as well as protecting the public trust" that's the police job. more guns wouldn't have theoretically helped this bad situation.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:01:43
At least one good thing is the shooter killed himself so we and the victims' families don't have to spend 10 years watching this case being drug through the court system.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:07:42
conceled carry is for your own protection, not "as well as protecting the public trust" that's the police job. more guns wouldn't have theoretically helped this bad situation.

Yea but if it worked, then it would work. Which is WHY we need sheepdogs out there, who CCW and are ready to rock and roll if and when, god forbid, their intervention is needed to save lives.
Title: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Batmann on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:16:41
it's not easy to accept that in the end we are only flesh and bones

Well, there you are. Someone once said that the answer is not to make life softer, but to make people tougher. Guns woudn't be a problem if it took more potent weapons, the possession of which still is effectively controled (say, like thermonuclear warheads) to injure human beings.

This wouldn't involve restricting liberty, but adding to it.

Not sure I fully understand why this led back to weapons
To me it's just a fact
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:21:11
conceled carry is for your own protection, not "as well as protecting the public trust" that's the police job. more guns wouldn't have theoretically helped this bad situation.

Yea but if it worked, then it would work. Which is WHY we need sheepdogs out there, who CCW and are ready to rock and roll if and when, god forbid, their intervention is needed to save lives.
What happens when no one has a gun?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:24:00
What happens when no one has a gun?

That is the situation which I prefer as well, although unfortunately it will never happen. Guns and other instruments of death will always exist - they are mechanical devices created by human beings. I wish that wasn't the case but it is.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: MMB on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:27:49
KL - please update your website.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 10:30:20
KL - please update your website.

That's kind of OT for this thread - please shoot me a PM with what exactly you would like updated.

Sorry I've slacked but I've also been super busy...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 11:21:58
What happens when no one has a gun?

That is the situation which I prefer as well, although unfortunately it will never happen. Guns and other instruments of death will always exist - they are mechanical devices created by human beings. I wish that wasn't the case but it is.

So instead of working towards a society where guns are not readily available you want more people to carry guns? America needs tovadmit that it has a gun problem, then it can start to deal with it.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 11:30:44
So instead of working towards a society where guns are not readily available you want more people to carry guns? America needs tovadmit that it has a gun problem, then it can start to deal with it.

Not readily available to whom though? Gun control makes guns less available to the people who want to own guns responsibly - not the criminals who can much more easily buy them illegally, and carry them wherever they want. If gun control worked, then it would work. Let's not forget that the incident occurred in a "gun-free zone".
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: precarious on Sat, 15 December 2012, 11:56:00
crazy guy wanted to crazy kill ppl/kids. he was going to kill no matter what implement of death he decided to obtain, either by gun, bomb, knife or whatever has been used to kill in the entirety of the human race. ppl who say conceled carry would have prevented this are stupid too, your just gonna end up trading bullets and killing even more ppl.

clickclack mentioned the convenience aspect of handguns earlier, and it's a valid point:  firearms more or less exhibit the maximum ratio of possible damage relative to ease of acquisition and use.  if this person hadn't had easy access to the gun (reportedly in the form of one owned by his mother), then this likely would not have played out the same way.  this individual was clearly impulsive, disorganized, and didn't have a clear idea what they were lashing out against, because seriously, who shoots up an elementary school?  that is not making a significant statement in any sense.  this was some misguided crime of passion, and a gun made it easy to commit.  it's plausible that if there had not been a gun in the home, this never would have happened.  but we don't know all the facts yet, so this is only one hypothesis.

however, i don't agree that we should outlaw firearms, either.  there are many things in life which are far worse than death.

to suggest that someone carrying a concealed weapon could not have prevented this is foolish.  i can't think of any particular reason for a young adult to shoot at children in an elementary school, so if i saw this happening and possessed the means at the time, i would have put an end to that.

firearms aren't really big and scary thermonuclear devices waiting to go off and summarily annihilate everyone within a fifty mile radius:  they're tools, which with training and when appropriately wielded can prevent at least as much harm as any may claim that they cause.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: uJalled on Sat, 15 December 2012, 12:21:17
I think a good first step is making the requirements to buy a gun and ammo very stringent- with a poly and psych test. then they should crack down on the illegal arms market, because that's where a lot of these lunatics get their supplies.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:21:41
Why does this sort of thing seem to happen every other week in the US?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:24:56
This thread makes me very glad that I live in the UK and not the US!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:26:59
I only WISH I could blame all the serious fundamental problems of the U.S. which cause serious tragedies to happen on individual gun ownership...

But I know better.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:32:44
I don't blame it on that. I blame it on the US's utterly ****ed up society in general. I'm anti-gun control personally (I own guns and rifles also), but that said all these nutjob losers that shoot up schools or workplaces or whatever always seem to use legally-purchased firearms, which kind of flies in the face of the whole hackneyed "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them" argument the US pro-gun lobby like to repeat endlessly.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:33:25
It isn't just gun ownership but that factor allows these people to make a huge impact with minimal thought or effort.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:37:10
Yea but that doesn't negate the fact that the vast majority of gun violence here occurs in poor, low-income areas with illegal weapons. But the majority of the pro-gun lobbyists are corrupt and bought and sold anyway, so what they say doesn't really matter.

What really bothers me is some of the other statistics, how reports of mental illness are at all-time highs, more babies are being born with mental disabilities than ever here, etc. Not to mention that there has possibly never been so much more dissatisfaction with our political situation. Most people aren't happy about it, very few have a good idea why, and those who are, are simply believing the lies of politicians. In general, we have a lot of unhappy and crazy people here, and that really bothers me. And does it bother me that these people can own weapons? Yea, definitely. But many of them are government employees, and criminals, so laws on gun control won't affect them..
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:38:31
It isn't just gun ownership but that factor allows these people to make a huge impact with minimal thought or effort.

Yeah, exactly. But that said, I'm still not an advocate of more gun control because I don't think the trade off of inconveniencing all the law-abiding, normal firearm users is worth it, just to potentially eradicate the tragedies that do occur. Other people might disagree and feel it's totally worth it, and that's fair enough, it's a subjective thing.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:39:13
I honestly cannot see  a way out for the US, the government has been losing money since 1945, the nation is still fragmented, crippled by religious beliefs and many other problems.
 
Where do you go from here?!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:41:29
Well, the UK has its issues too. But fortunately for them, like Switzerland and Norway, they have so much freaking capital that they won't experience the kinds of problems we and the EU are experiencing for a very long time. Unless they find a way out by then. Which, historical evidence shows, would likely be one of force.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: metafour on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:45:59
Both relevant to this discussion:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation?page=1

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:46:54
The UK does have issues but they are relatively minor compared to those of the US and the EU which doesn't seem to have much longer left!
 
Also the UK has a genuine position in the modern marketplace, whether the government will support the education that the next generation needs is another thing.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:47:12
Both relevant to this discussion:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation?page=1

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX

Both of those links are pure propaganda.

The UK does have issues but they are relatively minor compared to those of the US and the EU which doesn't seem to have much longer left!

They are not minor issues at all. They are very significant structural issues which the majority of citizens aren't aware of only because of how rich your country is.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:47:52
The UK's issues are more like practical problems that can be dealt with though (though I'm sceptical that they will be in a satisfactory manner) rather than deeply ingrained ****ed-up things the US has like retard fundamental Christians and their twisted moral compass, or rampant consumerism/materialism (everywhere has that obviously, but it's much worse there), or just societal hypocrisy in general.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: metafour on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:49:17
Both relevant to this discussion:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation?page=1

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX

Both of those links are pure propaganda.

Of course they are. They disagree with your views and/or contain facts.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:49:23
Well said Malphas.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:50:41
Both relevant to this discussion:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation?page=1 (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/09/mass-shootings-investigation?page=1)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX (https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/set-date-and-time-have-conversation-about-gun-policy-united-states/gzWCnDSX)

Both of those links are pure propaganda.

The UK does have issues but they are relatively minor compared to those of the US and the EU which doesn't seem to have much longer left!

They are not minor issues at all. They are very significant structural issues which the majority of citizens aren't aware of only because of how rich your country is.

What problems do you refer to?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 13:51:10
Of course they are. They disagree with your views and/or contain facts.

The first one contains facts which are completely irrelevant.

The second one is just laughable. Like any of those petitions matter. If they did, Texas would have been given the green light to secede by now. People still think we live in a democracy. Stahp! This ain't no democracy!

What problems do you refer to?

Your economical structure, likes ours, is not sustainable.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:03:54
The UK's issues are more like practical problems that can be dealt with though (though I'm sceptical that they will be in a satisfactory manner) rather than deeply ingrained ****ed-up things the US has like retard fundamental Christians and their twisted moral compass, or rampant consumerism/materialism (everywhere has that obviously, but it's much worse there), or just societal hypocrisy in general.

What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:05:27
Of course they are. They disagree with your views and/or contain facts.

The first one contains facts which are completely irrelevant.

The second one is just laughable. Like any of those petitions matter. If they did, Texas would have been given the green light to secede by now. People still think we live in a democracy. Stahp! This ain't no democracy!

What problems do you refer to?

Your economical structure, likes ours, is not sustainable.


Why isn't ours? We have a future and a (currently) shrinking welfare program.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:05:49
The UK's issues are more like practical problems that can be dealt with though (though I'm sceptical that they will be in a satisfactory manner) rather than deeply ingrained ****ed-up things the US has like retard fundamental Christians and their twisted moral compass, or rampant consumerism/materialism (everywhere has that obviously, but it's much worse there), or just societal hypocrisy in general.

What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.


They are the same thing.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:13:43
Why isn't ours? We have a future and a (currently) shrinking welfare program.

It's one based on collectivism.

In addition to the U.S. societal problems I brought up before about the increasing mental illness and discontent in our society: the very relevant increased prescription and use of psychotropic drugs used to treat things like depression and anxiety are very disturbing. Statistics have shown that the vast majority of folks who commit these atrocities are not only mentally ill, but taking some form of medication like this. These medications, of course, are all FDA-approved.

And people wonder why I don't trust the FDA!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:15:26
What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.
Yeah, thing is the fact you can find an item B worse than item A doesn't mean A is no longer bad. That's like if I complained about a pizza having anchovies and you saying "hey Malphas, what's wrong with anchovies? It's worlds better than dog feces".

i.e. The fact that the Arab world and fundamental Muslims are more ****ed up than the USA and Fundamental Christians doesn't negate the fact the latter are still ****ed up. Also, "spreading hate, violence, and destruction" (you could also add ignorant to the list) is something fundamental Christians do pretty well with their anti-Abortion violence, pro-death penalty stance, anti-teaching of evolution/science in general, pro-War stance, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:16:11
True but it is a capitalistic take on collectivism so I don't really mind. I think that it is the best you will get with a two party system running the government of a Capitalistic nation that has a fractional reserve banking system.


The use of prescribed drugs in the US is shocking, it is a great example of treating the symptom not the cause.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 14:23:49
Well, and the Big Pharma companies are lobbyists too - which to me, shows the worthlessness of our so-called "democracy" and IMHO, points to a much larger evil at work here, when we're referring to major gun-related (and otherwise) atrocities being performed in our country, by people under the influence of these chemicals.

What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.


They are the same thing.

Couldn't agree more. Well said.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sat, 15 December 2012, 15:15:01
Two things:

Are malphas and KL not arguing?!

And democracy and more specifically the constitutional republic (of which the US truly is) is broken.  Too much greed as poisoned the well dug by the founding fathers and because of that, drives mistrust into everything that happens.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 15:40:57
To be honest, I was resisting the urge to make fun of KL for his more stereotypical Libertard exclamations.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: iri on Sat, 15 December 2012, 16:04:53
The UK's issues are more like practical problems that can be dealt with though (though I'm sceptical that they will be in a satisfactory manner) rather than deeply ingrained ****ed-up things the US has like retard fundamental Christians and their twisted moral compass, or rampant consumerism/materialism (everywhere has that obviously, but it's much worse there), or just societal hypocrisy in general.

What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.


They are the same thing.
haven't seen american fundamental christians in 9/11-like "breaking news". and luckily they haven't blown up a single person in here.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sat, 15 December 2012, 16:08:03
The UK's issues are more like practical problems that can be dealt with though (though I'm sceptical that they will be in a satisfactory manner) rather than deeply ingrained ****ed-up things the US has like retard fundamental Christians and their twisted moral compass, or rampant consumerism/materialism (everywhere has that obviously, but it's much worse there), or just societal hypocrisy in general.

What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.


They are the same thing.
haven't seen american fundamental christians in 9/11-like "breaking news". and luckily they haven't blown up a single person in here.


Only because they haven't been pushed far enough. They share the same ideals and bigoted hatred.


Same thing.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 16:08:42
To be honest, I was resisting the urge to make fun of KL for his more stereotypical Libertard exclamations.

Just by the fact that you're calling me names, and couldn't effectively debate me in two threads by now, I'm really not too worried about what you think of any of my views.

Ever notice how the people who call other people crazy, seem to have the views that are REALLY crazy?

Only because they haven't been pushed far enough. They share the same ideals and bigoted hatred.

Same thing.

Correct. No one is dropping bombs on them.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:11:45
it's like you go out of your way to be a complete jackass tp4.

I very much see the tragedy and feel that tug' at my chest when I heard the news.

However, my point about the "loss" accounted for is valid.

In Civ, would you rather lose a bunch of soldiers, or say, Einstein..


Which is why it is most often prudent to remain averse to strong emotional drifts.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:13:55
As another person that lives right down the road from Newtown, this has changed nothing about my idea of Newtown's 'safeness' level.  It also doesn't change how I feel in my own town.  These are the kinds of events that do not in any way reflect the type of town they end up happening in.

The unfortunate truth is that while the security *standards* at schools in this area have been enough to stop this from happening for some time now, the level of compliance by those responsible is lacking.  The doors are locked and you must get buzzed in by the secretary, but quite often they don't pay attention to who is at the door.

I would think that unless the standards actually included compulsory pat downs, he still would have had little trouble getting into the school as he was a son of one of the teachers, correct?  I don't know about you, but when I visit my mom at work, I'm recognized and associated with familiar and safe.  /shrug

Things should be scrutinized, of course, but this seems more like a freak occurrence than a complete failure of a system put in place.

For all you know we just lost some. 

HIGHLY unlikely.....  However if they shot up the math department of any ivyleague, that would be certain lose of immense brain power.

As for you, it's like you want to be ripster 2.0 and that's all the energy I'll put into it.

Not everything Ripster said was "correct", but most of it was rational... And he probably has aspergers, so his demeanor is also valid.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:28:32
it's like you go out of your way to be a complete jackass tp4.

I very much see the tragedy and feel that tug' at my chest when I heard the news.

However, my point about the "loss" accounted for is valid.

In Civ, would you rather lose a bunch of soldiers, or say, Einstein..


Which is why it is most often prudent to remain averse to strong emotional drifts.
Yeah, I think the point you don't get is that societal worth has got **** all to do with anything here and was only brought up by you. No-one is interested in your aspergers-driven attempts at philosophising or your inappropriate videogame analogies.

Also, although I personally found ripster to be hilarious and didn't dislike him the way some others here did, his quest for attention on the Internet - positive or negative - did seem to be an indicator of him massively overcompensating for real life failings. Not someone you really want to emulate.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:39:00
it's like you go out of your way to be a complete jackass tp4.

I very much see the tragedy and feel that tug' at my chest when I heard the news.

However, my point about the "loss" accounted for is valid.

In Civ, would you rather lose a bunch of soldiers, or say, Einstein..


Which is why it is most often prudent to remain averse to strong emotional drifts.
Yeah, I think the point you don't get is that societal worth has got **** all to do with anything here and was only brought up by you. No-one is interested in your aspergers-driven attempts at philosophising or your inappropriate videogame analogies.

Also, although I personally found ripster to be hilarious and didn't dislike him the way some others here did, his quest for attention on the Internet - positive or negative - did seem to be an indicator of him massively overcompensating for real life failings. Not someone you really want to emulate.

Oh please, and you're just the super success and one with every right to talk down to others..

Ripster is internet-born like the rest of us. Get over yourself.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: SmallFry on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:42:22
Guys, lets calm down a little... There's bigger things in this world than flame wars in threads over something this devastating.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:44:31
Guys, lets calm down a little... There's bigger things in this world than flame wars in threads over something this devastating.

Kinda puts things in perspective a bit, doesn't it. The world is a very, very ****ed up place. It's important that we make time for and appreciate the things in life that truly make it worth living, like family and friends IMO.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:52:10
Or recreational drugs and trashy women in my case.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:57:10
Or recreational drugs and trashy women in my case.

 :eek:

Hmm.. so I see we're more similar than I had previously thought. though I am not into drugs, low body weight.  :))
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 December 2012, 17:59:43
Also, I just watched OBAMA's post cataclysm broadcast.. That whole tearing up drama look so fake... How can a president who can sit through hundreds of soldiers dieing for only the sake of Oil conglomerate possibly be affected by dead children.

Though we can't hold OBAMA accountable, he is quite an ineffective person in all ways of WAR.   By his inaction, thousands die. And here we are watching him fake cry over some dead babies.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 15 December 2012, 18:54:53
Your signature says t all.
Put your differences aside. Most people don't understand, see and a lot of the times would disagree, but truth is we are all living animals with a conscience. If we just realize that we are organisms made of tissues and cells, most people "know" that but don't understand what they know. Take out your bias and take out your attachment. We are noting more than material, think I am wrong? Press your hands against your stomach, can you visualize anything under the skin? Try your head, jaw, hand... There is something under your skin and it is not an "everlasting soul". Who is going to remember you when you die one hundred years from now. One hundred years ago we had almost two billion, now we have a little more than seven billion. Chances are that we won't make an impact on the people of the future but if we treat the people we meet today with respect and love each other for just the fact we all have to live in this world and suffer the same pains.

Stop hating the things you do not have or the people that have what you want or the people you think is keeping what you want from you. Love what you have and love the the next person, no one asked to be in this world.

The "world" is all your perception, but if you make someone else's perception your's, your perception becomes the "world's".

100% true but for some reasons hard to bear in mind,
it's not easy to accept that in the end we are only flesh and bones

At least you know. Just live life with a smile and make the best of what you have. It is not a bad thing that we are flesh and bones but the world makes a lot more sense when we know that.



There are  7 billion people in this world and there are a lot of great, nice, amazing people, but there are just as many stupid, arrogant, crazy people that I could hate. With the amount of people there are in this world, a number more than I could ever count, I can expect that there are a lot of stupid, arrogant, crazy people in this world. Anything can happen. Everyone wants to pursuit happiness but no one wants to despair. Politicians may be corrupt and society may be wrong but in the end we need to pity them instead of despising them.

I feel sorry for the manslaughterer as if the society tried to understand him more and treat him, this may not have happened. I feel more suppressed sorrow for the young kids, teachers and the family affected. It would be too sad for me to think about the unbearable headache, despair, and  emotional distress they are in. I would never want to lose my younger brother, sister, cousin, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, mother, father that way. I would be in a tornado of denial. No one should lose a family member during this normally joyous season. Their lives will change forever and be reminded every year that you once gave a smile to your child but nothing you give can bring that smile back or even your own smile of pleasing your child. I can't imagine how many years have to go by before they get over it. It is like losing years of your life to one thought, "When can they come back, when can I go back?"
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: funkymeeba on Sat, 15 December 2012, 19:32:57
Man, this thread got derailed like none other. Holy god.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 December 2012, 19:57:25
Your signature says t all.
Put your differences aside. Most people don't understand, see and a lot of the times would disagree, but truth is we are all living animals with a conscience. If we just realize that we are organisms made of tissues and cells, most people "know" that but don't understand what they know. Take out your bias and take out your attachment. We are noting more than material, think I am wrong? Press your hands against your stomach, can you visualize anything under the skin? Try your head, jaw, hand... There is something under your skin and it is not an "everlasting soul". Who is going to remember you when you die one hundred years from now. One hundred years ago we had almost two billion, now we have a little more than seven billion. Chances are that we won't make an impact on the people of the future but if we treat the people we meet today with respect and love each other for just the fact we all have to live in this world and suffer the same pains.

Stop hating the things you do not have or the people that have what you want or the people you think is keeping what you want from you. Love what you have and love the the next person, no one asked to be in this world.

The "world" is all your perception, but if you make someone else's perception your's, your perception becomes the "world's".

100% true but for some reasons hard to bear in mind,
it's not easy to accept that in the end we are only flesh and bones

At least you know. Just live life with a smile and make the best of what you have. It is not a bad thing that we are flesh and bones but the world makes a lot more sense when we know that.



There are  7 billion people in this world and there are a lot of great, nice, amazing people, but there are just as many stupid, arrogant, crazy people that I could hate. With the amount of people there are in this world, a number more than I could ever count, I can expect that there are a lot of stupid, arrogant, crazy people in this world. Anything can happen. Everyone wants to pursuit happiness but no one wants to despair. Politicians may be corrupt and society may be wrong but in the end we need to pity them instead of despising them.

I feel sorry for the manslaughterer as if the society tried to understand him more and treat him, this may not have happened. I feel more suppressed sorrow for the young kids, teachers and the family affected. It would be too sad for me to think about the unbearable headache, despair, and  emotional distress they are in. I would never want to lose my younger brother, sister, cousin, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, mother, father that way. I would be in a tornado of denial. No one should lose a family member during this normally joyous season. Their lives will change forever and be reminded every year that you once gave a smile to your child but nothing you give can bring that smile back or even your own smile of pleasing your child. I can't imagine how many years have to go by before they get over it. It is like losing years of your life to one thought, "When can they come back, when can I go back?"

LOL, kids and their verbal diarrhea...   ;D
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sat, 15 December 2012, 19:59:52
pot, meet kettle.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 15 December 2012, 20:22:02
Count 1 to 1 billion see how long it takes you.
Your signature says t all.
Put your differences aside. Most people don't understand, see and a lot of the times would disagree, but truth is we are all living animals with a conscience. If we just realize that we are organisms made of tissues and cells, most people "know" that but don't understand what they know. Take out your bias and take out your attachment. We are noting more than material, think I am wrong? Press your hands against your stomach, can you visualize anything under the skin? Try your head, jaw, hand... There is something under your skin and it is not an "everlasting soul". Who is going to remember you when you die one hundred years from now. One hundred years ago we had almost two billion, now we have a little more than seven billion. Chances are that we won't make an impact on the people of the future but if we treat the people we meet today with respect and love each other for just the fact we all have to live in this world and suffer the same pains.

Stop hating the things you do not have or the people that have what you want or the people you think is keeping what you want from you. Love what you have and love the the next person, no one asked to be in this world.

The "world" is all your perception, but if you make someone else's perception your's, your perception becomes the "world's".

100% true but for some reasons hard to bear in mind,
it's not easy to accept that in the end we are only flesh and bones

At least you know. Just live life with a smile and make the best of what you have. It is not a bad thing that we are flesh and bones but the world makes a lot more sense when we know that.



There are  7 billion people in this world and there are a lot of great, nice, amazing people, but there are just as many stupid, arrogant, crazy people that I could hate. With the amount of people there are in this world, a number more than I could ever count, I can expect that there are a lot of stupid, arrogant, crazy people in this world. Anything can happen. Everyone wants to pursuit happiness but no one wants to despair. Politicians may be corrupt and society may be wrong but in the end we need to pity them instead of despising them.

I feel sorry for the manslaughterer as if the society tried to understand him more and treat him, this may not have happened. I feel more suppressed sorrow for the young kids, teachers and the family affected. It would be too sad for me to think about the unbearable headache, despair, and  emotional distress they are in. I would never want to lose my younger brother, sister, cousin, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, mother, father that way. I would be in a tornado of denial. No one should lose a family member during this normally joyous season. Their lives will change forever and be reminded every year that you once gave a smile to your child but nothing you give can bring that smile back or even your own smile of pleasing your child. I can't imagine how many years have to go by before they get over it. It is like losing years of your life to one thought, "When can they come back, when can I go back?"

LOL, kids and their verbal diarrhea...   ;D
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sat, 15 December 2012, 20:36:47
pot, meet kettle.
My thoughts exactly.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sat, 15 December 2012, 21:14:29
pot, meet kettle.

At me or Tip?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sat, 15 December 2012, 21:52:51
you've only been here for a bit.

so, not directed towards you :)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:10:58
Or recreational drugs and trashy women in my case.

Well and that's the whole point about freedom right? What's important to you isn't necessarily important to me - but I don't want to tell you what to do with your free time, nor should you encroach on mine.

Though we can't hold OBAMA accountable, he is quite an ineffective person in all ways of WAR.   By his inaction, thousands die. And here we are watching him fake cry over some dead babies.

This is what really bothers me. He orders CIA killings of children all the time. It's his job.

And believe me, I'm not a huge fan of Ron Paul, but there was a reason why in his retirement speech to congress he literally called them all a bunch of psychopaths. He wasn't mincing words or being sarcastic or something like that. It's because they truly are psychopaths. And there is a belief that the structure of government is exactly the type of thing which attracts people like that - people who want power, and who want to control the lives of others.
Title: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:17:28
The truth is thanks to the media coverage of these events there's someone out there who is already planning a way to "one up" this **** instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place. Thank you News Media, YOU killed all these kids when you decided to broadcast tragedies like this as if its a reality show. Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:21:12
Quote
instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place.

that is a terrible attitude.

but i agree with the rest of your statement.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:21:41
The truth is thanks to the media coverage of these events there's someone out there who is already planning a way to "one up" this **** instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place. Thank you News Media, YOU killed all these kids when you decided to broadcast tragedies like this as if its a reality show. Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.

Yea that's another big problem people are starting to bring up - for instance everyone knows the names "Dylan Klebold" and "Eric Harris". But do most people remember any of the names of those poor defenseless children those two psychos murdered? Unfortunately no, media sensationalism made these two guys into ****ing rockstars. And who is in bed with the media? ...........
Title: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:40:39
Quote
instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place.

that is a terrible attitude.

but i agree with the rest of your statement.
yea I get that it's a terrible thing to say. But we are talking about terrible people here. Who have done terrible things. I have a feeling these people were far beyond being "talked off the ledge".
Title: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:43:48
^ and I think we can both agree that it's a much better alternative to what actually went down.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:43:51
no. we are talking about sick people. disturbed people that need help.

they are only "terrible" people once they do what they do.

Quote
I have a feeling these people were far beyond being "talked off the ledge".
eh you don't know that.

^ and I think we can both agree that it's a much better alternative to what actually went down.
no, not really. him ending his life would have still been a tragedy.
Title: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: YoungMichael88 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 00:55:29
Yea you're right. I was probably a little out of line there. The whole situation is tragic. It's a shame these mental health issues aren't dealt with in a better way or covered by health insurance.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: laffindude on Sun, 16 December 2012, 01:55:25
Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.
Exactly. Rubberneckers are the reason why media go ape sh!t at every incident. Shock and awe drives up ratings I guess.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 03:11:07
There are two reasons for this, the first being stupidly easy access to firearms without much thought and secondly the media:

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: iri on Sun, 16 December 2012, 03:40:52
^ seriously, easy access to guns and guaranteed broad media coverage aren't THE reasons to go kill random people and then commit suicide. those are rather catalysts.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: MissMurd3r84 on Sun, 16 December 2012, 04:32:54
Yea that's another big problem people are starting to bring up - for instance everyone knows the names "Dylan Klebold" and "Eric Harris". But do most people remember any of the names of those poor defenseless children those two psychos murdered?
Weirdly enough I can remember some of their names, Isaiah(spelling?), Rachel, Lauren, John, Daniel..
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 05:38:36
^ seriously, easy access to guns and guaranteed broad media coverage aren't THE reasons to go kill random people and then commit suicide. those are rather catalysts.
Those are the reasons that so many people died and will keep dying at the hands of people that need mental health care.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Sun, 16 December 2012, 06:49:38
What do you have against the fundamentalist Christians of modern-day America? I'd say they're worlds better than the fundamentalist Muslims halfway across the globe who spread hate, violence, and destruction.
Yeah, thing is the fact you can find an item B worse than item A doesn't mean A is no longer bad. That's like if I complained about a pizza having anchovies and you saying "hey Malphas, what's wrong with anchovies? It's worlds better than dog feces".

i.e. The fact that the Arab world and fundamental Muslims are more ****ed up than the USA and Fundamental Christians doesn't negate the fact the latter are still ****ed up. Also, "spreading hate, violence, and destruction" (you could also add ignorant to the list) is something fundamental Christians do pretty well with their anti-Abortion violence, pro-death penalty stance, anti-teaching of evolution/science in general, pro-War stance, etc. etc.

To be honest, who gives a damn if somebody wants to believe in evolution of not? I personally do, but it's not like it hurts other people or their property if I choose not to.

And what's so wrong with being for the death penalty? The death penalty is in place to punish those who commit the most heinous of crimes. It's not like people want it to be used on shoplifters or pot dealers, or things like that. If the Newtown shooter had survived, don't you think he would deserve the death penalty? It's not like they use the death penalty on people for acts like listening to "Western" music and wearing white socks, like the Taliban, a large and organized group of Islamic extremists, did.

And with abortion...well, that's a very deeply personal matter with people. But after you say that fundamentalist Christains in the US are just as messed up as Muslim extremists in the Middle East, let me think for a second...are you saying that opposition to giving women the right to abort is on the same par as shooting women who dare walk out without being covered in a burka and accompanied by a man, or giving the death penalty to women who dare go out and drive? That's the stuff that really goes on in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, and places ruled by the Taliban and other such terrorist groups.

As a resident of the US, I see churches and evangelical Christians going out and helping others, for the most part. One big church in the town next to where I work is working right now to set up free temporary housing to help out those who lost their homes on Staten Island during Hurricane Sandy. Other churches have collections to help the poor and deliver services such as health care for them. There may be a few wackjobs out there like the one guy who shot the abortion doctor in court, or the crazy guy in Florida who was going to have a big "Burn a Quran Day", or the 30-member Westboro Baptist church who pickets at military funerals for some distorted homophobic vision, but that is not the norm at all. Most Christians, probably 99.999% I see out there try to help others, not hurt others. Remember, there's over 3 billion Christians in the world, but maybe only a few hundred who are wacked-out nut jobs like the ones I just mentioned. But then there's whole states and nations and governments controlled by radical Muslim extremists, and numerous terrorist incidents such as 9/11/01, 9/11/12, the Fort Hood mass shooting. And you say that fundamentalist Christians are just as bad by being opposed to abortion and evolution?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 06:58:11
Yes, different societal constraints govern just how extreme both groups can be but in principle and many beliefs they are the same thing.


Abortion has nothing, absolutely **** all to do with religion. Why the hell should US Christian groups be allowed to block and upset abortion practices? Religion should never ever come into consideration when dealing with health and law.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: eugenius on Sun, 16 December 2012, 07:19:47
You can't legislate danger or crazy people out of existence, all you can do is have the means and the education to defend yourself well if you can't avoid the confrontation.

If you take away guns only the outlaws and the sociopaths will have them, they don't care about the law anyway.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 07:21:36
You can't legislate danger or crazy people out of existence, all you can do is have the means and the education to defend yourself well if you can't avoid the confrontation.

If you take away guns only the outlaws and the sociopaths will have them, they don't care about the law anyway.


Not true at all, do you have any statistics that show countries that have relaxed gun laws have fewer crimes committed with firearms?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: eugenius on Sun, 16 December 2012, 07:46:49
That is a deflection and a poor one because all I've said is both true and obvious.

We either become a flock of sheep and god help us when a wolf gets loose or we grow up and learn to live with danger and take care of ourselves because NOBODY sane will risk even a hair on their ass-adjacent area for anybody else. That includes you mr/ms statistics. ;)

If Breivik lived in USA he wouldn't have succeeded in killing so many people. By the way, guns are controlled in Norway.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 07:51:54
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:33:23
Not that I'm for a toys for guns arrangement, but how is a propaganda poster supposed to strengthen your point when you're demanding proof from your counterpoint?

What study is attributed to those numbers?  How were those numbers arrived at?  What's the ratio of gun ownership to gun related deaths in the countries listed? These are the questions proof answers.

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:39:26
Here is a more detailed and up to date listing of gun ownership and gun related deaths: http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list (http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:41:47
See?  This is what I mean.  High five

But it isn't exactly strengthening your point as it says that the US has a significantly higher percentage of civilian gun ownership, but a very low gun death percentage, too.  It also doesn't jive with that 10k people killed by guns in the US poster, as they show ~1k less and that the US isn't even the highest in total deaths as we're led to believe.  I would be interested as well to see the gun laws in the countries surrounding the US in raw number of people killed by guns (the US is 5th and has more total guns than the rest of the top 10 combined).

Also, another niggle with your poster.  That uses West Germany as a country and I'm fairly certain West Germany hasn't been a country in a large number of years.

Again, I'm not condoning simply looking the other way, but you're trying to argue a point with (forgive the comparison) a half cocked gun.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:45:55
Proof that you shouldn't post and drink kids.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:52:50
Proof that you shouldn't post and drink kids.

Why would I ever drink kids?  That's weird.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: iri on Sun, 16 December 2012, 08:59:13
What study is attributed to those numbers?  How were those numbers arrived at?  What's the ratio of gun ownership to gun related deaths in the countries listed? These are the questions proof answers.
my question number one will be "what the **** is west germany doing in this list?"
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:08:52
What study is attributed to those numbers?  How were those numbers arrived at?  What's the ratio of gun ownership to gun related deaths in the countries listed? These are the questions proof answers.
my question number one will be "what the **** is west germany doing in this list?"

I realized that later when comparing figures, heh.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:20:17
The truth is thanks to the media coverage of these events there's someone out there who is already planning a way to "one up" this **** instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place. Thank you News Media, YOU killed all these kids when you decided to broadcast tragedies like this as if its a reality show. Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.

Is this a subtle way of telling us that's exactly what YOU"RE doing?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:23:43
The truth is thanks to the media coverage of these events there's someone out there who is already planning a way to "one up" this **** instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place. Thank you News Media, YOU killed all these kids when you decided to broadcast tragedies like this as if its a reality show. Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.

Yea that's another big problem people are starting to bring up - for instance everyone knows the names "Dylan Klebold" and "Eric Harris". But do most people remember any of the names of those poor defenseless children those two psychos murdered? Unfortunately no, media sensationalism made these two guys into ****ing rockstars. And who is in bed with the media? ...........

I don't see how any of these things are "BIG" problems..

So we lose say another 100 kids...   

The cost to train a few pilots and send them to Afghanistan to die for oil, ENORMOUS compared to the cost of popping out 100 more kids and raising them to age 10..


What I'm getting at is, LETS get the BIG THINGS RIGHT, bring the soldiers HOME..... Little kids are NOT worth as much as they are CUTE....


Similar to saving pandas,, THEY'RE freaking fat overgrown, out-evolutioned-naturally-obsolete dogs.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: iri on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:27:49
i think someone is short from following ripster's path
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:29:37
The truth is thanks to the media coverage of these events there's someone out there who is already planning a way to "one up" this **** instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place. Thank you News Media, YOU killed all these kids when you decided to broadcast tragedies like this as if its a reality show. Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.

Yea that's another big problem people are starting to bring up - for instance everyone knows the names "Dylan Klebold" and "Eric Harris". But do most people remember any of the names of those poor defenseless children those two psychos murdered? Unfortunately no, media sensationalism made these two guys into ****ing rockstars. And who is in bed with the media? ...........

I don't see how any of these things are "BIG" problems..

So we lose say another 100 kids...   

The cost to train a few pilots and send them to Afghanistan to die for oil, ENORMOUS compared to the cost of popping out 100 more kids and raising them to age 10..


What I'm getting at is, LETS get the BIG THINGS RIGHT, bring the soldiers HOME..... Little kids are NOT worth as much as they are CUTE....


Similar to saving pandas,, THEY'RE freaking fat overgrown, out-evolutioned-naturally-obsolete dogs.


You want the West to withdraw from conflict zones that do not directly affect national security?


Good luck filling that gaping hole in the nations income.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:31:21
i think someone is short from following ripster's path

I already mentioned... I do feel for the kids... I agree we should protect children from harm... But this is a discussion of the fate of this country... Dead children is a small problem compared to "The Economy" "The Afghan War" and "The Energy crisis"
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:34:49
The truth is thanks to the media coverage of these events there's someone out there who is already planning a way to "one up" this **** instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place. Thank you News Media, YOU killed all these kids when you decided to broadcast tragedies like this as if its a reality show. Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.

Yea that's another big problem people are starting to bring up - for instance everyone knows the names "Dylan Klebold" and "Eric Harris". But do most people remember any of the names of those poor defenseless children those two psychos murdered? Unfortunately no, media sensationalism made these two guys into ****ing rockstars. And who is in bed with the media? ...........

I don't see how any of these things are "BIG" problems..

So we lose say another 100 kids...   

The cost to train a few pilots and send them to Afghanistan to die for oil, ENORMOUS compared to the cost of popping out 100 more kids and raising them to age 10..


What I'm getting at is, LETS get the BIG THINGS RIGHT, bring the soldiers HOME..... Little kids are NOT worth as much as they are CUTE....


Similar to saving pandas,, THEY'RE freaking fat overgrown, out-evolutioned-naturally-obsolete dogs.


You want the West to withdraw from conflict zones that do not directly affect national security?


Good luck filling that gaping hole in the nations income.

Selling guns to ourselves is what we're doing...

On the books, we're printing money like we always have....

It's not really income....

It's a reason to "spend" and "borrow"

This is NOT PRODUCTIVE.....

We're turning into great britain post industrial revolution, when the UNITED STATES came to GLORY.....

Now if we don't do something fast, CHINA is gonna take place of the USA....


NOTICE the trend,, anytime we have upcoming nations partaking in Enormous environmental damage for the sake of industry, THEY are replacing someone who's faltering...

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: longweight on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:38:07
The UK is selling them to others :)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:45:58
The UK is selling them to others :)

Every industrial nation sells SOME guns to other people... But the problem is inherent in US economic history, not only involving guns.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 09:53:22
Has a anyone brought up the fact that gun control has largely increased at the same time these incidents have ALSO increased? Or that Connecticut has some of THE MOST strict gun laws in the U.S.? From talking to people about U.S. gun laws, the one thing I've noticed is, those who want more gun control, are the same people who literally have ZERO familiarity with the laws we already have! Most of which are argued to help create these very tragedies!

I mean, really, you simply cannot blame these situations directly on the guns themselves. And you can't make straight comparisons between the U.S. and other countries either. Think critically here, people, you're Geekhackers. You're smarter than that!!

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/ct-gun-laws-prevented-school-gunman-from-purchasing-rifle-four-days-ago/
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 10:28:57
If Breivik lived in USA he wouldn't have succeeded in killing so many people. By the way, guns are controlled in Norway.
Absolute BS. And yes firearms are controlled everywhere in the developed world, including Norway, and including the USA, but that doesn't change the fact that the firearms Breivik used were purchased legally after he tried and failed to purchase them illegally in Europe.  So any kind of argument you're trying to make on that is dead in the water already . Stop being disingenuous to support your position (which presumably is the same as mine) and make honest arguments instead of just looking like a liar/idiot.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 10:30:48
instead of killing themselves in their basement like they should have just done in the first place.
Exactly.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 10:33:11
Has a anyone brought up the fact that gun control has largely increased at the same time these incidents have ALSO increased? Or that Connecticut has some of THE MOST strict gun laws in the U.S.? From talking to people about U.S. gun laws, the one thing I've noticed is, those who want more gun control, are the same people who literally have ZERO familiarity with the laws we already have! Most of which are argued to help create these very tragedies!

I mean, really, you simply cannot blame these situations directly on the guns themselves. And you can't make straight comparisons between the U.S. and other countries either. Think critically here, people, you're Geekhackers. You're smarter than that!!

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/ct-gun-laws-prevented-school-gunman-from-purchasing-rifle-four-days-ago/

Guns are NOT the problem.. we've established this, anyone who thinks that guns are the problem is childish.

Anyone who is bent on killing a bunch of kids will succeed. For several reasons.

Children collect in large groups EVERY MORNING...

They're defenseless

Anything short of armed guards will NOT stop an ARMED mad man.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 10:37:08
i think someone is short from following ripster's path

I already mentioned... I do feel for the kids... I agree we should protect children from harm... But this is a discussion of the fate of this country... Dead children is a small problem compared to "The Economy" "The Afghan War" and "The Energy crisis"
Hi, I think this is where you're making your mistake. See, this thread is called "Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children" and is specifically about that tragedy (the clue is in the title). You seem to have mistaken it for some sort of debate on the USA as a whole, which must be why your comments here are so bizarre, out of place and moronic.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 10:46:00
Has a anyone brought up the fact that gun control has largely increased at the same time these incidents have ALSO increased? Or that Connecticut has some of THE MOST strict gun laws in the U.S.? From talking to people about U.S. gun laws, the one thing I've noticed is, those who want more gun control, are the same people who literally have ZERO familiarity with the laws we already have! Most of which are argued to help create these very tragedies!

I mean, really, you simply cannot blame these situations directly on the guns themselves. And you can't make straight comparisons between the U.S. and other countries either. Think critically here, people, you're Geekhackers. You're smarter than that!!

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/ct-gun-laws-prevented-school-gunman-from-purchasing-rifle-four-days-ago/

Guns are NOT the problem.. we've established this, anyone who thinks that guns are the problem is childish.

Anyone who is bent on killing a bunch of kids will succeed. For several reasons.

Children collect in large groups EVERY MORNING...

They're defenseless

Anything short of armed guards will NOT stop an ARMED mad man.

Anyone that discounts firearms as part of the equation is either a simpleton or insincere to suit their attitude towards gun control, or both. Clearly firearms massively increase the amount of destruction a single individual can do, whilst decreasing the amount of effort and ability required. Children are generally accompanied by adults who have a much better chance of stopping/slowing an unarmed assailant or one with a non-projectile weapon than one armed with firearms. So when something like this occurs with legally-purchased firearms, then obviously questions are raised about the nature of gun control.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 11:01:43
Last I checked though, bombs cause a hell of a lot more destruction than guns. And few people are aware that they can be assembled and created QUITE easily. Even more easy than legally purchasing a gun, arguably.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 11:17:05
Exactly, few people are aware thankfully. And that's also why purchasing the chemicals necessary to make one is usually either regulated or raises flags with the police. You can also build firearms fairly easily as well. None of this has anything to do with what I just said, however.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 12:07:38
Yea but that's not true though. Bombs can be created easily through materials bought at hardware stores which are not regulated. They can also be assembled with materials which are regulated but are easily available (like illegal guns) via the black market. Don't forget, the columbine shooters used homemade pipe bombs.

Edit: So last night I had a housewarming party and my parents were there...of course the convo gets political and this topic comes up and my mom pulls out the whole "I don't like those violent video games..." thing and I'm like "Shtahp!!"

It's like, for God's sake I'm your son! I like playing Counter-Strike and L4D2 and I would NEVER want to hurt another human being!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 12:36:27
Yea but that's not true though. Bombs can be created easily through materials bought at hardware stores which are not regulated. They can also be assembled with materials which are regulated but are easily available (like illegal guns) via the black market. Don't forget, the columbine shooters used homemade pipe bombs.

Edit: So last night I had a housewarming party and my parents were there...of course the convo gets political and this topic comes up and my mom pulls out the whole "I don't like those violent video games..." thing and I'm like "Shtahp!!"

It's like, for God's sake I'm your son! I like playing Counter-Strike and L4D2 and I would NEVER want to hurt another human being!
What part of what I said isn't true exactly?

Edit: I'm going to elaborate actually, because as usual you most likely will fail to understand. See, I said "purchasing the chemicals necessary to make one is usually either regulated or raises flags with the police" that implies at least three possibilities exist:

A) The chemicals are regulated.

B) The chemicals are not regulated (as inferred by the "or" operator, rather than "and") but large or unusual purchases of them may be reported to the appropriate authorities for investigation.

C) The chemicals are not regulated or reported (as inferred by "usually" rather than something like "always").

So you see, your statement that you make immediately after suggesting what I said wasn't true - that bombs can be created from unregulated materials bought from hardware stores - falls under C) as part of my original assertion and therefore isn't evidence of what I said not being true.

And once again, this has nothing to do with what I said about gun control being something that naturally get raised in response to incidents like these where legally purchased firearms were used.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: SmallFry on Sun, 16 December 2012, 12:39:55
Give it a rest guys... please.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 16 December 2012, 12:42:10
i think someone is short from following ripster's path

I already mentioned... I do feel for the kids... I agree we should protect children from harm... But this is a discussion of the fate of this country... Dead children is a small problem compared to "The Economy" "The Afghan War" and "The Energy crisis"

This topic is about "dead children" not "The Economy" "The Afghan War" or "The Energy crisis". If you need to read the title. Have a little compation. No reason to compare kids to irreverent issues. Lose the pride and entitlement and try to love when you can.

You guys complain about how Obama is corrupt but at the same time you guys complain about how you want our country to have money and power. There are many things to hate but just enough to love. Then why do people hate so much?

There is no power or money without corruption.

The media portrays what they deem to be interesting and a lot of the times overdramatise truth. He who controls the media controls the minds of the people.

Give it a rest guys... please.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 13:23:37
You guys complain about how Obama is corrupt but at the same time you guys complain about how you want our country to have money and power. There are many things to hate but just enough to love. Then why do people hate so much?

There is no power or money without corruption.

Not me man. I agree that criminals should not possess guns - so I say, let's start with the criminals in Washington.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 13:49:19
Has a anyone brought up the fact that gun control has largely increased at the same time these incidents have ALSO increased? Or that Connecticut has some of THE MOST strict gun laws in the U.S.? From talking to people about U.S. gun laws, the one thing I've noticed is, those who want more gun control, are the same people who literally have ZERO familiarity with the laws we already have! Most of which are argued to help create these very tragedies!

I mean, really, you simply cannot blame these situations directly on the guns themselves. And you can't make straight comparisons between the U.S. and other countries either. Think critically here, people, you're Geekhackers. You're smarter than that!!

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/ct-gun-laws-prevented-school-gunman-from-purchasing-rifle-four-days-ago/

Guns are NOT the problem.. we've established this, anyone who thinks that guns are the problem is childish.

Anyone who is bent on killing a bunch of kids will succeed. For several reasons.

Children collect in large groups EVERY MORNING...

They're defenseless

Anything short of armed guards will NOT stop an ARMED mad man.

Anyone that discounts firearms as part of the equation is either a simpleton or insincere to suit their attitude towards gun control, or both. Clearly firearms massively increase the amount of destruction a single individual can do, whilst decreasing the amount of effort and ability required. Children are generally accompanied by adults who have a much better chance of stopping/slowing an unarmed assailant or one with a non-projectile weapon than one armed with firearms. So when something like this occurs with legally-purchased firearms, then obviously questions are raised about the nature of gun control.

You're mistaken.. a firearm increases the destruction a person "CAN" achieve. It will never make a person MORE likely to WANT to kill...

More simply,, educating an insane person greatly increased his "destructive potential"  is education now a weapon we should regulate???

I don't believe we should put much worry into these outlier people in general, because they're few and far in between...


Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 13:52:35
i think someone is short from following ripster's path

I already mentioned... I do feel for the kids... I agree we should protect children from harm... But this is a discussion of the fate of this country... Dead children is a small problem compared to "The Economy" "The Afghan War" and "The Energy crisis"

This topic is about "dead children" not "The Economy" "The Afghan War" or "The Energy crisis". If you need to read the title. Have a little compation. No reason to compare kids to irreverent issues. Lose the pride and entitlement and try to love when you can.

You guys complain about how Obama is corrupt but at the same time you guys complain about how you want our country to have money and power. There are many things to hate but just enough to love. Then why do people hate so much?

There is no power or money without corruption.

The media portrays what they deem to be interesting and a lot of the times overdramatise truth. He who controls the media controls the minds of the people.

Give it a rest guys... please.

Compassion yes, but Love? are you serious.... grow up..
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 15:00:38
Has a anyone brought up the fact that gun control has largely increased at the same time these incidents have ALSO increased? Or that Connecticut has some of THE MOST strict gun laws in the U.S.? From talking to people about U.S. gun laws, the one thing I've noticed is, those who want more gun control, are the same people who literally have ZERO familiarity with the laws we already have! Most of which are argued to help create these very tragedies!

I mean, really, you simply cannot blame these situations directly on the guns themselves. And you can't make straight comparisons between the U.S. and other countries either. Think critically here, people, you're Geekhackers. You're smarter than that!!

http://www.jammiewf.com/2012/ct-gun-laws-prevented-school-gunman-from-purchasing-rifle-four-days-ago/

Guns are NOT the problem.. we've established this, anyone who thinks that guns are the problem is childish.

Anyone who is bent on killing a bunch of kids will succeed. For several reasons.

Children collect in large groups EVERY MORNING...

They're defenseless

Anything short of armed guards will NOT stop an ARMED mad man.

Anyone that discounts firearms as part of the equation is either a simpleton or insincere to suit their attitude towards gun control, or both. Clearly firearms massively increase the amount of destruction a single individual can do, whilst decreasing the amount of effort and ability required. Children are generally accompanied by adults who have a much better chance of stopping/slowing an unarmed assailant or one with a non-projectile weapon than one armed with firearms. So when something like this occurs with legally-purchased firearms, then obviously questions are raised about the nature of gun control.

You're mistaken.. a firearm increases the destruction a person "CAN" achieve. It will never make a person MORE likely to WANT to kill...
That's exactly what I said, you dunce. It makes it much easier for them to cause harm, and increases the capacity for harm. That alone is reason to take a look at gun control measures, since this atrocity was committed with legally purchased firearms. My God, I'm sick of explaining basic concepts and logic to you simpletons.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 15:03:37
what was that quote again..


LOL, kids and their verbal diarrhea...   ;D

ah, yes. there it is.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Malphas on Sun, 16 December 2012, 15:05:36
i think someone is short from following ripster's path

I already mentioned... I do feel for the kids... I agree we should protect children from harm... But this is a discussion of the fate of this country... Dead children is a small problem compared to "The Economy" "The Afghan War" and "The Energy crisis"

This topic is about "dead children" not "The Economy" "The Afghan War" or "The Energy crisis". If you need to read the title. Have a little compation. No reason to compare kids to irreverent issues. Lose the pride and entitlement and try to love when you can.

You guys complain about how Obama is corrupt but at the same time you guys complain about how you want our country to have money and power. There are many things to hate but just enough to love. Then why do people hate so much?

There is no power or money without corruption.

The media portrays what they deem to be interesting and a lot of the times overdramatise truth. He who controls the media controls the minds of the people.

Give it a rest guys... please.

Compassion yes, but Love? are you serious.... grow up..
Another pot/kettle rendezvous.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 16 December 2012, 18:14:41
what was that quote again..


LOL, kids and their verbal diarrhea...   ;D

ah, yes. there it is.

Omg was thinking the same thing. Not sure why tip is so aggressive. Loosen that shell a little and try to open up to...differnt ideas. ;D
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 18:30:28
You know someone is terrible at debating/having a civil conversation when they are constantly reverting to name-calling.

And of course, calling someone a "libertard" is evidence of a completely totalitarian attitude.

You can always tell the people for whom government appeals because they want to control the way other people think and live.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:09:32
So, news coming out saying, he was on meds.. well there you have it...

Drug company give practicing psychotherapists a bonus for selling their pills, Kid goes on rampage. More people go in for treatment and testing, more pills..  Brilliant marketing.


Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:12:20
the same news that blamed another person first?

oh, okay.

also, being on meds doesnt mean he had taken them that day.

so please stop with the conspiracy crap, that's kl's job.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:15:57
It's not a conspiracy, it's market driven.. Have you looked at the books of these drug companies, and their hot sellers? 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 19:21:23
Most of the things people call "conspiracy theory" these days have been so proven to be true with fact it's not even theory anymore. People don't read anymore though, and they believe the media.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:34:48
the same news that blamed another person first?

oh, okay.

also, being on meds doesnt mean he had taken them that day.

so please stop with the conspiracy crap, that's kl's job.

Okay, he was on meds. Did it say medication was the direct cause? Was he medicated the day, week, month, year of the shooting? Was he taking them as prescribed? Did it say medication was the main/sole reason? Sigh, lets not jump to conclusions.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:36:20
jump to conclusions

(http://michaelvenske.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Tom-office_space.jpg)

!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:37:49
But that's what we must do in a 24/7 spin cycle!!

(http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:49:53
But that's what we must do in a 24/7 spin cycle!!

Show Image
(http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg)


^Office Space, yes!

Anyways, just listened to the President's speech.  I never was an Obama supporter, but this speech completely changed my outlook.  Much respect goes out to the President for taking the time to be there tonight with all the people of Newtown.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: SmallFry on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:51:17
I agree, always a good speech giver, but that was very nice of him.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:52:24
But that's what we must do in a 24/7 spin cycle!!

Show Image
(http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg)


^Office Space, yes!

Anyways, just listened to the President's speech.  I never was an Obama supporter, but this speech completely changed my outlook.  Much respect goes out to the President for taking the time to be there tonight with all the people of Newtown.

inb4 "he's lying. he's back at the white house laughing like a maniac at dead babies and taking away your rights and turning the US into a socialist country!"

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 16 December 2012, 20:59:28
I respect our presidents very much. Just seeing how much any president ages in four years shows you how much more stress they have to deal with every day.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:09:53
Well, he DOES order the drone bombings of entire families and schools of children.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/229844/the-day-69-children-died/?2
All those murders MUST be stressful.

There is some strange info starting to come out about this shooting as well as the Colorado shooting. Please let me know if you folks find anything worth sharing. I don't consider myself a "conspiracy theorist" but I also believe that the mainstream media is not one to give us the full story - especially since they're all owned by corporations. Here's what I've read:

- Supposedly the fathers of both shootings were set to testify on major banking scandals before the shootings happened

- There are reports that there may have been a second shooter in the Sandy Hook incident

- The Colorado shooter (not going to give his name) is apparently on suicide watch and a fellow inmate has told people he believes he was brainwashed by his therapist and felt like he was in a "video game"

- Sandy Hook, oddly enough, is the area where Suzanne Collins, writer of "The Hunger Games" lives

- There are conflicting reports about Sandy Hook, especially regarding which actual weapons were used

- There are reports that some children have been held by police and their parents are unable to communicate with them

Like I said, I'm NOT into conspiracy theories but I don't think we're getting all the info here. Please let me know if any of you find anything worth sharing.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:24:09
look out for my FS thread soon, item of the week will be tin foil hats.

(http://nathan-lee.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/tinfoil-hat.jpg)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:30:02
Pardon me for believing in the worth of free thinking and that everyone should have the full information on tragedies that happen on the world. My bad, dude. Didn't realized that offended you so much.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: demik on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:31:53
do you mind posting your sources of these "supposedly" points?


also, what does the hunger games have to do with this (i know nothing of the book).

and lets try posting sites that don't have a bias, since you hate that so much.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: quadibloc on Sun, 16 December 2012, 21:53:05
Some of you may argue "we want an explanation" when the truth is its none of your ****ing business. Unless your family or friends of the victims, you're not owed an explanation of any kind.
No, because I could be the next victim. I demand an explanation for how this happened, because I consider it to be negligence on the part of the government that things like this do happen.

Really, though, people who are so crazy that they can't be trusted with a gun ought to be locked up rather than restricting everyone else's rights.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 16 December 2012, 22:06:40
Last part of that. Doesn't that happen all the time? They don't want people to influence the kids. I heard of corrupt investors before but I would think anyone in law enforcement would do the right thing.

About Obama. I am sure our president, the one who represents us as a nation, does the right thing as a human and a public leader. Our nation was build on liberty and there are always people that want to take it away. Without the moral sacrifices our government has made, who knows were we would be today.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Sun, 16 December 2012, 22:22:22
Pardon me for believing in the worth of free thinking and that everyone should have the full information on tragedies that happen on the world. My bad, dude. Didn't realized that offended you so much.

People should have truthful informations when desired but should also be considerate of the people that you may affect from knowing, searching, or spreading such knowledge. This type of tragedy has happened more than once before and I believe I have as much information on this subject as I would desire to know. This truly has nothing to do with me at all, so why would I go out of my way as if it would directly affect me somehow? I am assuming you all are males, but I may be wrong. I guess it is not in my nature to ask more than I need to know.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 06:36:31
About Obama. I am sure our president, the one who represents us as a nation, does the right thing as a human and a public leader. Our nation was build on liberty and there are always people that want to take it away. Without the moral sacrifices our government has made, who knows were we would be today.

No offense, but that is basically the attitude of a sheep. The guy is a liar, thief and murderer. People deify him because statism is the most dangerous religion in the world. He goes on tv and pretends to cry about these kids while killing hundreds of children in the middle east. I'm sorry but people need to wake up and realize that we are not getting the full story, from a media which is very well controlled. People need to realize that the concept of citizens not owning weapons is CENTRAL to government power and influence. The ability of people to own guns represents a loss of control from the state, which essentially only wants to have as much control as possible.

I mean, am I the ONLY one around here who thinks all these mass killings recently around the time of Obama's re-election seems a REALLY strange coincidence?

Make of this what you will.


These are all the guns which media reports are saying were used in the killings. Several of them are Class 3 which requires a $200 tax charge per weapon and lots of paperwork which is filed with the BATF. Are we supposed to believe this guy's mother or grandmother or whatever owned Class 3 machine guns and what looks like at least one short barrel rifle? There is no way one shooter could have killed that many kids with just a few semi-auto weapons, nor that one shooter could have used ALL these weapons in the massacre.

(http://i.imgur.com/wxhij.png)

They want to ban civilian guns for a reason - just keep that in mind.

Edit: checked CT laws today which I already knew were some of the stricter ones in the country. Looks like Class 3 weapons are BANNED, unless they were bought prior to 1993.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Connecticut
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 27 dead, 18 children
Post by: MissMurd3r84 on Mon, 17 December 2012, 07:48:28
But that's what we must do in a 24/7 spin cycle!!

Show Image
(http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg)

Why did someone write "loose" instead of lose :(
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 December 2012, 08:28:49
Well, he DOES order the drone bombings of entire families and schools of children.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/229844/the-day-69-children-died/?2
All those murders MUST be stressful.

There is some strange info starting to come out about this shooting as well as the Colorado shooting. Please let me know if you folks find anything worth sharing. I don't consider myself a "conspiracy theorist" but I also believe that the mainstream media is not one to give us the full story - especially since they're all owned by corporations. Here's what I've read:

- Supposedly the fathers of both shootings were set to testify on major banking scandals before the shootings happened

- There are reports that there may have been a second shooter in the Sandy Hook incident

- The Colorado shooter (not going to give his name) is apparently on suicide watch and a fellow inmate has told people he believes he was brainwashed by his therapist and felt like he was in a "video game"

- Sandy Hook, oddly enough, is the area where Suzanne Collins, writer of "The Hunger Games" lives

- There are conflicting reports about Sandy Hook, especially regarding which actual weapons were used

- There are reports that some children have been held by police and their parents are unable to communicate with them

Like I said, I'm NOT into conspiracy theories but I don't think we're getting all the info here. Please let me know if any of you find anything worth sharing.

Well... If we weave ALL of those points together... we get...

Father ploted for a family oriented distraction so he will not have to testify, because he was one of the beneficiary of the said scandal.

The mother tries to prevent this event from occuring, but the push from the Father/Older brother side was too strong, and then ADAM caved to the pressure from that end.

The tension between Adam and Mother ended in Matricide.

The alleged medication "anti-psychotics" could've been the extra heading needed to get Adam over the edge.

Both the Brother and Father was involved, along with another friend potentially USED AS a surrogate instigator.

Adam might've been an avid fiction reader, thus having read "hunger games" combined with the meds, might've lost touch with reality and began his foray into murder.

All of the characters in the Hunger games that were "to be competing" were kids.. So Adam having only had a middle school education, would naturally gravitate towards his "Past recollection of children groups"... The very same group that had frustrated him while he was a part of.


Ah it all makes sense now.. Thankyou Keyboard lover.

Next time you see the quiet kid with a fiction book about killing other kids, make sure to disarm that bomb.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 17 December 2012, 08:57:55
But that's what we must do in a 24/7 spin cycle!!

Show Image
(http://danceswithfat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/jump-to-conclusions-mat.jpg)

Why did someone write "loose" instead of lose :(

It's a prototype.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Lanx on Mon, 17 December 2012, 10:05:16
movie/manga buffs will agree that hunger games is just a rip off of the japanese manga from 99 battle royale

no different than gene simmon's kid (cuz no one knows his name) copying bleach

http://bleachness.livejournal.com/446299.html

the thing is, these ppl are stupid enough to copy popular manga, at least copy/plagarise lesser known manga. But that sandy hook did it right tho, all she did was copy the main idea, plot, love story, and just made it a bit more vast, and made bank off of it.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 17 December 2012, 10:10:04
Just wondering... how did this thread go from discussing a horrible tragedy to discussing conspiracy theories?  I mean, I know this is in the "off topic" subforum and all, but I didn't quite expect this...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 10:40:33
For the same reason that it went to discussing politics: because it's a political issue.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 17 December 2012, 10:48:37
For the same reason that it went to discussing politics: because it's a political issue.

Good point...

Carry on.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 17 December 2012, 11:43:11
About Obama. I am sure our president, the one who represents us as a nation, does the right thing as a human and a public leader. Our nation was build on liberty and there are always people that want to take it away. Without moral sacrifices our government has made, who knows were we would be today.

No offense, but that is basically the attitude of a sheep. The guy is a liar, thief and murderer. People deify him because statism is the most dangerous religion in the world. He goes on tv and pretends to cry about these kids while killing hundreds of children in the middle east. I'm sorry but people need to wake up and realize that we are not getting the full story, from a media which is very well controlled. People need to realize that the concept of citizens not owning weapons is CENTRAL to government power and influence. The ability of people to own guns represents a loss of control from the state, which essentially only wants to have as much control as possible.
[/quote]

What politician isnt a liar and a theif. Then again what human isnt a liar or a theif. If I wanted to be a politician I would, but I don't like politics. When the "truth" comes out then that is when it will happen. I understand people are bad abd also good. Form that understanding I will not go out of my way to judge other people. I accept people for being bad or good. Our country was built on certain principles and it should be kept as such. As time goes on some things become less relevant and will need reform but no one garrentees it will be better or worse. I support the right to own a gun but what if you ponder about that right? There is nothing wrong with that because when something is questioned, the truth becomes stronger. Some things were set before we were here but as time goes by we will "forget" or never learn or understand why certain things came to be. Some people can be told certain things others have to experiance it. Politics never gets anywhere. As the saying goes,"if you want to lose a friend, talk about politics."

Worse comes to wrose, who said we couldn't move out if ee didn't like our country?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 11:59:14
Worse comes to wrose, who said we couldn't move out if ee didn't like our country?

Because why should we move if they're the ones who suck? Should the native americans have just moved if they didn't like getting slaughtered? Should the Palestinians just move? Or the Syrians, Yemens, etc.?... You have to be careful that you're not treading down the slippery slope of legitimization of tyranny with that argument.

Now...I certainly don't want to rustle any jimmies or clonk any bonkers here. But where are the half-mast flags for the dead Pakistani kids? Or the Palestinian kids? Or the entire families in Yemen? Oh right - "collateral damage"...but who is to say that same bull**** argument doesn't apply in this case? If someone is in the way of your extension of power, it is ok for you to blow them away? I don't claim to know what is really going on here but like I said, I don't think the media is giving us anywhere near the whole story.

Our country was built on certain principles and it should be kept as such

And this is precisely why statism is the most dangerous religion in the world. There is not a single state in the world for which the "right to exist" doesn't result in a gun pointed at the head of someone else. At the end of the day there are two types of people: those who want to be left alone, and those who simply will not leave them alone. It is government for which people who want to control the lives of others appeals.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Mon, 17 December 2012, 12:49:17
I heard word "sheep" being thrown around in here. This is recommended reading for those who don't know the origin of the term:

http://www.marsec4.com/2011/04/sheep-sheepdogs-and-wolves/
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 13:22:58
We need more sheepdogs in society. Like that brave teacher who hid her kids in a closet.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Mon, 17 December 2012, 13:48:19
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


If handguns are killers, then why don't we send try them in court and send them to jail instead of the people who use them? That sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? I just love your smart, logical ideas...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 17 December 2012, 13:50:49
Pardon me for believing in the worth of free thinking and that everyone should have the full information on tragedies that happen on the world. My bad, dude. Didn't realized that offended you so much.
You say that you believe in free thinking, yet all your opinions and statements are lifted straight out of the Libertard manifesto, and whenever someone expresses a different (usually more moderate) opinion than you, you immediately label them statists and supporting evil etc., before launching for the millionth time into one of your incredibly tiresome "government is evil" rants.

Also, the whole "civilian sheepdog" thing that gets banded about increasingly these days is about the lamest thing ever. It's mostly perpetuated by losers that like to indulge in some sick fantasy that one day they can play the big hero, whilst giving the rest of us normal firearm owners (who use it them for legitimate reasons like work and competition rather than sitting at home jacking off over them) a bad name.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 14:21:51
All your arguments against mine, IMO, are either tyrannical in nature or make no sense. Phrases like "tinfoil" and "libertard" are totalitarian nonsense. I never told anyone what to think, but you are the one calling people name and shoving your ideology down peoples' throats. Just like a politician.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: iri on Mon, 17 December 2012, 14:27:04
^^^ the revolver is nice, but its coloring i dislike.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 14:35:22
Also Malphas, you've probably never been in a situation where you've been needed to save someone's life or had your life saved by another person. I literally saved a close family member's life two years ago. The sheepdog mentality is EXTREMELY important in our society and should be encouraged. Of course, de-escalation and avoidance should ALWAYS be preferred to any act of violence.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: demik on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:00:29
so, we give our side and we are called tyrants and we are shoving ideologies down people's throats.

kl gives his side, and's the freedom to think.

gotcha.

for the record, i am still waiting on your source of the **** you brought up earlier. and none of this hearsay crap, actual reliable (read: non bias) sources.

im talking about this btw:
Well, he DOES order the drone bombings of entire families and schools of children.
http://tribune.com.pk/story/229844/the-day-69-children-died/?2
All those murders MUST be stressful.

There is some strange info starting to come out about this shooting as well as the Colorado shooting. Please let me know if you folks find anything worth sharing. I don't consider myself a "conspiracy theorist" but I also believe that the mainstream media is not one to give us the full story - especially since they're all owned by corporations. Here's what I've read:

- Supposedly the fathers of both shootings were set to testify on major banking scandals before the shootings happened

- There are reports that there may have been a second shooter in the Sandy Hook incident

- The Colorado shooter (not going to give his name) is apparently on suicide watch and a fellow inmate has told people he believes he was brainwashed by his therapist and felt like he was in a "video game"

- Sandy Hook, oddly enough, is the area where Suzanne Collins, writer of "The Hunger Games" lives

- There are conflicting reports about Sandy Hook, especially regarding which actual weapons were used

- There are reports that some children have been held by police and their parents are unable to communicate with them

Like I said, I'm NOT into conspiracy theories but I don't think we're getting all the info here. Please let me know if any of you find anything worth sharing.

a source for everything, please.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:01:36
All your arguments against mine, IMO, are either tyrannical in nature or make no sense. Phrases like "tinfoil" and "libertard" are totalitarian nonsense. I never told anyone what to think, but you are the one calling people name and shoving your ideology down peoples' throats. Just like a politician.
I don't think you even have any idea what my ideology is, let alone to the extent you would find it shoved down your throat. All I've said with regard to it is that you post a tremendous amount of illogical, hackneyed, hypocritical pish with enormous self-righteousness and unwarranted arrogance.

Also Malphas, you've probably never been in a situation where you've been needed to save someone's life or had your life saved by another person.
Lol, hilariously wrong since I've had several jobs where I was employed to do exactly that.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: demik on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:08:27
"just like a politician"

correct me if i'm wrong, but arent there libertarian politicians also?

or did you mean "just like a politician that i dont see eye to eye with"
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:15:03
What's probably most hypocritical of all is that KL accuses others of shoving ideologies down people's throats whilst this is at least the third thread now that he's completely derailed in order to spout the exact same childish pro-anarchy/anti-government diatribe we've all heard him say several times already.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: demik on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:17:08
and after everything, he plays the woe is me card.

which is just hilarious.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: precarious on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:22:52
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


If handguns are killers, then why don't we send try them in court and send them to jail instead of the people who use them? That sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? I just love your smart, logical ideas...

Look, I'm going to be completely serious for a minute.  I know a lot of my posts are casual and in jest, but this is for real.

Last night I was merrily traipsing down my favorite neighborhood dark alley when I heard a metallic rattling coming out from behind the dumpster.  I expected to encounter a homeless man upon my passing, rooting amidst the refuse for some snacks, but instead there was a Sig Sauer P226 semi-automatic handgun chambered in 9MM barely conscious with a half-empty bottle of Jack Daniels beside him.  I asked the handgun very politely and respectfully, "Sir, are you okay?  Do you need any help?"  and he only grumbled incoherently in response.  Then, out of absolutely nowhere, this wildly intoxicated drunken sod of a handgun just started popping off rounds at me!  I mean, I could have been killed!

We need to ensure that underage, irresponsible handguns are not able to purchase liquor.  This is a dangerous combination and we need to put a stop to this at once.

While we're at it we should also sever the genitalia of all men so they can no longer rape.  THOUSAND OF PENISES RAPE WOMEN EACH YEAR, WE MUST BAN PENISES.

ALSO BAN BREASTS FOR MAKING THEM HARD.

(BAN BRAINS FOR EXHIBITING PARTICULAR BEHAVIOR IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN EXTERNAL STIMULI.)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:31:47
As witty as your overdone and unoriginal sarcasm is, you can't completely discount the massive increase in ease and effectiveness that firearms enable. Do you really think all these shooting spree killers - almost all nerdy 150lbs weaklings - would have inflicted anything like as much damage if they were only equipped with a bat or a knife rather than legally-owned firearms?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:35:54
What's probably most hypocritical of all is that KL accuses others of shoving ideologies down people's throats whilst this is at least the third thread now that he's completely derailed in order to spout the exact same childish pro-anarchy/anti-government diatribe we've all heard him say several times already.

Oh ho... Zinggg.....

At least I'm open about my nonsense diatribe.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:40:07
As witty as your overdone and unoriginal sarcasm is, you can't completely discount the massive increase in ease and effectiveness that firearms enable. Do you really think all these shooting spree killers - almost all nerdy 150lbs weaklings - would have inflicted anything like as much damage if they were only equipped with a bat or a knife rather than legally-owned firearms?

Well... that's debatable, since if the guy is there waiting to swing on your head, then he could very well do it..

And... I would imagine taking out little kids with a bat wouldn't be all that difficult, especially when cornered in a classroom with only 1 exit


It is likely that the aggressor will succeed no matter what regulation you put on weapons, because of how many are already out there....

regulation will not stop gun carrying in this country, and it also will not be able to recall the guns already in circulation...
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:40:32
and after everything, he plays the woe is me card.

which is just hilarious.

who plays what? This is why we have the quote button.. If you just want to talk to yourself, then why bother posting??

Silliness
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: precarious on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:42:38
As witty as your overdone and unoriginal sarcasm is, you can't completely discount the massive increase in ease and effectiveness that firearms enable. Do you really think all these shooting spree killers - almost all nerdy 150lbs weaklings - would have inflicted anything like as much damage if they were only equipped with a bat or a knife rather than legally-owned firearms?

I really hope you weren't responding to my post.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: demik on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:43:51

LOL, kids and their verbal diarrhea...   ;D

i've stopped reading just about everything you type now. it was quite simple to see whom i was talking about.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:51:27
As witty as your overdone and unoriginal sarcasm is, you can't completely discount the massive increase in ease and effectiveness that firearms enable. Do you really think all these shooting spree killers - almost all nerdy 150lbs weaklings - would have inflicted anything like as much damage if they were only equipped with a bat or a knife rather than legally-owned firearms?

Well... that's debatable, since if the guy is there waiting to swing on your head, then he could very well do it..

And... I would imagine taking out little kids with a bat wouldn't be all that difficult, especially when cornered in a classroom with only 1 exit


It is likely that the aggressor will succeed no matter what regulation you put on weapons, because of how many are already out there....

regulation will not stop gun carrying in this country, and it also will not be able to recall the guns already in circulation...
Disregarding the second part of your post as that's not the point I'm making, since I'm not personally an advocate of more gun control (all I'm arguing here is the ease and damage) I'd say that frankly I think you have to be pretty deluded to try and debate that a bladed weapon or blunt object is going to be equally devastating in these kind of scenarios. Yes a guy waiting to swing a bat on your head is more or less just as lethal as a gunshot, but that's not a comparable scenario, we're talking about a situation where a lone assailant (usually one that isn't very physically intimidating) is going into an area full of people and causing numerous casualties, and the reason they're able to do that (other than perhaps rare cases) is due to having a firearm. If you think you can dispute that's the reason why, then you're being either disingenuous or just stupid. Same with your classroom example, it completely ignores the fact that children are generally under the constant supervision of adults.

I'm all for genuine arguments as to why people should be legally allowed to own firearms, just not ones that are blatant BS.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Mon, 17 December 2012, 15:53:38

LOL, kids and their verbal diarrhea...   ;D

i've stopped reading just about everything you type now. it was quite simple to see whom i was talking about.
Not if you're chronically lacking in social awareness and basic interpersonal skills as tp has demonstrated himself to be.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 16:51:24
Now I know how politicians are created.

They start as trolls.

Edit: More info starting to come out about the fathers of both shooters and the LIBOR scandal:

http://www.examiner.com/article/libor-scandal-grows-as-the-fathers-of-two-mass-murderers-were-to-testify

Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Internetlad on Mon, 17 December 2012, 17:36:04
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


Now show me another chart dictating how many of those are murders, suicides, accidents, How many are done by legitimate criminals, self defense or by an officer of the law or guard. How many of these killings were done by registered or unregistered firearms? If we could also expand this chart to show long guns like rifles and shotguns, which are much easier to buy and possess with minimal licensing in most countries. (Still gets the job done exactly the same.)

And of course, kindly sort these per capita, because there sure as hell isn't 315,000,000 people living in Israel.

Just another example about how a specific dataset can be twisted to fit an agenda. Like a graph of "how many people prefer pepsi to coke" and the difference is staggering, but then you see they're not showing 0-100, they're showing 45-55 and only 2 more people prefer coke to pepsi.

(http://thinkingmeat.net/images/gp-bush+unemployment.jpg)

what a huge difference.

Also, is there a way to "unfollow" this thread? I'm tired of it being on top of my feed every single time I check. I can't go to work or on the internet without getting a 10 lb bag of "new developments" crammed down my throat.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 17 December 2012, 18:02:37
Relevant:

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537559_10152367316040503_236925743_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 17 December 2012, 18:57:50
the right one
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 17 December 2012, 19:03:10
Now I know how politicians are created.

They start as trolls.

As in they were trolls when they were younger? Like when they were kids? Hasn't all kids been trolls before at one point or another? Or do you mean someone that jokes around a will somehow become a politician?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 19:11:54
No, I meant in that they are people who are trolls, prone to trolling and like to troll other people.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 17 December 2012, 19:43:33
Ripster for Congress...?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 19:54:13
Ripster for Congress...?

Already won ;)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 17 December 2012, 20:17:09
Illuminati is behind it all?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 21:02:04
Illuminati is behind it all?

I didn't go there...I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Just a seeker of truth.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Mon, 17 December 2012, 21:08:05
Thanks kl. Now I am watching a bunch of illuminati videos. Just curious. Any signifigant illuminati theory that you would like to agree on or oppose to.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 December 2012, 21:08:50
Relevant:

Show Image
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537559_10152367316040503_236925743_n.jpg)


This is an example of FRAMING... it has nothing to do with which one'll work better.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Mon, 17 December 2012, 21:12:50
Thanks kl. Now I am watching a bunch of illuminati videos. Just curious. Any signifigant illuminati theory that you would like to agree on or oppose to.

To be completely honest with you I am not familiar enough with the whole theory to really discuss. I looked into it a little at one point, found really nothing conclusive and got bored.

My advice to you is to focus on facts and truth and then draw your own points and conclusions. Once you do that the writing will be on the wall. (And YOU will be the one making the people shouting "tinfoil" look like fools).

Edit: my friend just brought up this incident which is fairly similar in nature and never referenced by the media:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: clickclack on Mon, 17 December 2012, 22:25:28
...Edit: my friend just brought up this incident which is fairly similar in nature and never referenced by the media:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Bummer the assistant principal couldn't stop the mass shooting with his personal firearm. But it's a good thing he was able to stop him in the parking lot afterwards. Saved the police the extra step.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: precarious on Tue, 18 December 2012, 01:18:50
Bummer the assistant principal couldn't stop the mass shooting with his personal firearm. But it's a good thing he was able to stop him in the parking lot afterwards. Saved the police the extra step.

I don't know if he would've been able to get a clean shot off if the guy hadn't driven into a tree first!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: iri on Tue, 18 December 2012, 03:49:14
Show Image
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537559_10152367316040503_236925743_n.jpg)

guns are banned in christiania in copenhagen. there are respective signs everywhere. but in the place itself, there are lots of local pushers armed with guns.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: longweight on Tue, 18 December 2012, 03:55:44
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


If handguns are killers, then why don't we send try them in court and send them to jail instead of the people who use them? That sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? I just love your smart, logical ideas...

Look, I'm going to be completely serious for a minute.  I know a lot of my posts are casual and in jest, but this is for real.

Last night I was merrily traipsing down my favorite neighborhood dark alley when I heard a metallic rattling coming out from behind the dumpster.  I expected to encounter a homeless man upon my passing, rooting amidst the refuse for some snacks, but instead there was a Sig Sauer P226 semi-automatic handgun chambered in 9MM barely conscious with a half-empty bottle of Jack Daniels beside him.  I asked the handgun very politely and respectfully, "Sir, are you okay?  Do you need any help?"  and he only grumbled incoherently in response.  Then, out of absolutely nowhere, this wildly intoxicated drunken sod of a handgun just started popping off rounds at me!  I mean, I could have been killed!

We need to ensure that underage, irresponsible handguns are not able to purchase liquor.  This is a dangerous combination and we need to put a stop to this at once.

While we're at it we should also sever the genitalia of all men so they can no longer rape.  THOUSAND OF PENISES RAPE WOMEN EACH YEAR, WE MUST BAN PENISES.

ALSO BAN BREASTS FOR MAKING THEM HARD.

(BAN BRAINS FOR EXHIBITING PARTICULAR BEHAVIOR IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN EXTERNAL STIMULI.)

Prove your point with facts instead of the old rhetoric.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: precarious on Tue, 18 December 2012, 05:00:13
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


If handguns are killers, then why don't we send try them in court and send them to jail instead of the people who use them? That sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? I just love your smart, logical ideas...

Look, I'm going to be completely serious for a minute.  I know a lot of my posts are casual and in jest, but this is for real.

Last night I was merrily traipsing down my favorite neighborhood dark alley when I heard a metallic rattling coming out from behind the dumpster.  I expected to encounter a homeless man upon my passing, rooting amidst the refuse for some snacks, but instead there was a Sig Sauer P226 semi-automatic handgun chambered in 9MM barely conscious with a half-empty bottle of Jack Daniels beside him.  I asked the handgun very politely and respectfully, "Sir, are you okay?  Do you need any help?"  and he only grumbled incoherently in response.  Then, out of absolutely nowhere, this wildly intoxicated drunken sod of a handgun just started popping off rounds at me!  I mean, I could have been killed!

We need to ensure that underage, irresponsible handguns are not able to purchase liquor.  This is a dangerous combination and we need to put a stop to this at once.

While we're at it we should also sever the genitalia of all men so they can no longer rape.  THOUSAND OF PENISES RAPE WOMEN EACH YEAR, WE MUST BAN PENISES.

ALSO BAN BREASTS FOR MAKING THEM HARD.

(BAN BRAINS FOR EXHIBITING PARTICULAR BEHAVIOR IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN EXTERNAL STIMULI.)

Prove your point with facts instead of the old rhetoric.

Apparently facts can't arise of circumstances.  Thus, facts are not real and do not exist.

Guess I'll be posting an essay in this thread at some point tomorrow and get this thread closed, too, since everyone needs everything laid out explicitly replete with dictionary definitions because no one understands what words mean.  Most believe words to be only vaguely suggestive of emotion, and nothing more, rather than descriptive terms of circumstances which exist in objectivity.

Then, I suppose it is fine that language is being destroyed, because there seems to be nothing left for anyone to say. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36206.msg680323#msg680323)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 18 December 2012, 06:11:12
Ripster for Congress...?

Maybe I'll run against him!
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Tue, 18 December 2012, 06:12:40
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


If handguns are killers, then why don't we send try them in court and send them to jail instead of the people who use them? That sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? I just love your smart, logical ideas...

Look, I'm going to be completely serious for a minute.  I know a lot of my posts are casual and in jest, but this is for real.

Last night I was merrily traipsing down my favorite neighborhood dark alley when I heard a metallic rattling coming out from behind the dumpster.  I expected to encounter a homeless man upon my passing, rooting amidst the refuse for some snacks, but instead there was a Sig Sauer P226 semi-automatic handgun chambered in 9MM barely conscious with a half-empty bottle of Jack Daniels beside him.  I asked the handgun very politely and respectfully, "Sir, are you okay?  Do you need any help?"  and he only grumbled incoherently in response.  Then, out of absolutely nowhere, this wildly intoxicated drunken sod of a handgun just started popping off rounds at me!  I mean, I could have been killed!

We need to ensure that underage, irresponsible handguns are not able to purchase liquor.  This is a dangerous combination and we need to put a stop to this at once.

While we're at it we should also sever the genitalia of all men so they can no longer rape.  THOUSAND OF PENISES RAPE WOMEN EACH YEAR, WE MUST BAN PENISES.

ALSO BAN BREASTS FOR MAKING THEM HARD.

(BAN BRAINS FOR EXHIBITING PARTICULAR BEHAVIOR IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN EXTERNAL STIMULI.)

Prove your point with facts instead of the old rhetoric.

Apparently facts can't arise of circumstances.  Thus, facts are not real and do not exist.

Guess I'll be posting an essay in this thread at some point tomorrow and get this thread closed, too, since everyone needs everything laid out explicitly replete with dictionary definitions because no one understands what words mean.  Most believe words to be only vaguely suggestive of emotion, and nothing more, rather than descriptive terms of circumstances which exist in objectivity.

Then, I suppose it is fine that language is being destroyed, because there seems to be nothing left for anyone to say. (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36206.msg680323#msg680323)
Hehe, you're funny! Though it is hard to fully understand on the internet. I got the feeling you were addressing a point in a light-harded way? More or less important the subject of your story than the person addressed. Maybe for the reason of how blaming something else besides the person responsible is immature?

Ripster for Congress...?

Maybe I'll run against him!

Maybe Apple Macintosh will run against you!?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 18 December 2012, 06:33:31
Maybe I'll run against him!

Sounds like the last election!

Edit: Did you guys know that there is military technology which can put voices in your head?
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/45jack_files/03files/Sonic_Projection.html

Worth a watch:
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: iri on Tue, 18 December 2012, 08:50:48
\kl, just out of curiosity, do you hear voices in your head?
Title: Re: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 18 December 2012, 09:17:28
\kl, just out of curiosity, do you hear voices in your head?

No, but often times I see dumb people.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: tjcaustin on Tue, 18 December 2012, 09:26:19
If it is true and obvious then prove it.


Show Image
(http://ct.politicomments.com/ol/pc/sw/i52/5/7/25/f_fd2ca89fcc.jpg)


If handguns are killers, then why don't we send try them in court and send them to jail instead of the people who use them? That sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? I just love your smart, logical ideas...

Look, I'm going to be completely serious for a minute.  I know a lot of my posts are casual and in jest, but this is for real.

Last night I was merrily traipsing down my favorite neighborhood dark alley when I heard a metallic rattling coming out from behind the dumpster.  I expected to encounter a homeless man upon my passing, rooting amidst the refuse for some snacks, but instead there was a Sig Sauer P226 semi-automatic handgun chambered in 9MM barely conscious with a half-empty bottle of Jack Daniels beside him.  I asked the handgun very politely and respectfully, "Sir, are you okay?  Do you need any help?"  and he only grumbled incoherently in response.  Then, out of absolutely nowhere, this wildly intoxicated drunken sod of a handgun just started popping off rounds at me!  I mean, I could have been killed!

We need to ensure that underage, irresponsible handguns are not able to purchase liquor.  This is a dangerous combination and we need to put a stop to this at once.

While we're at it we should also sever the genitalia of all men so they can no longer rape.  THOUSAND OF PENISES RAPE WOMEN EACH YEAR, WE MUST BAN PENISES.

ALSO BAN BREASTS FOR MAKING THEM HARD.

(BAN BRAINS FOR EXHIBITING PARTICULAR BEHAVIOR IN RESPONSE TO CERTAIN EXTERNAL STIMULI.)

Prove your point with facts instead of the old rhetoric.

Says the guy that bases his point off of a propaganda poster from the mid80s and a Guardian article that seems to negate at least part of what he's saying.

I'm frankly tired of this "I'm 100% right, and you're 100% wrong and I demand you prove yourself and refuse to do the same; all the while, refuting your points as wrong because they aren't backing what I say" garbage.

In this case specifically, the discussion shouldn't be "BAN ALL THE GUNS!" / "BANNING ANY GUNS MEANS WE LOSE ALL FREEDOM", it should be "What is the maximum freedom of arms we can safely allow, given our cultural and technological situation?" 
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: WRXChris on Tue, 18 December 2012, 09:40:04
don't mind all the name callers, kl.  It's only their confirmation bias kicking in because they can't come to grips with the fact that they voted for and support mass murders.  If there were solid arguments against many of your points, they wouldn't have to resort to name calling.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: longweight on Tue, 18 December 2012, 10:06:48
I understand that you could never ban guns in the US but you would have far less murders committed if you had much tighter laws and controls.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: microsoft windows on Tue, 18 December 2012, 10:35:34
I understand that you could never ban guns in the US but you would have far less murders committed if you had much tighter laws and controls.

It would be nice if such an approach would work here, but it has not.  Would a murderer will care if an additional weapons charge is added to his murder charge? He'll get life in prison or the death penalty no matter what.  Many of the states here in the US with the tightest gun restrictions also have the highest rates of murder and gun violence. Since they make it much more difficult to obtain permits to legally own firearms, or legally conceal firearms, they've got, for the most part, an unarmed citizenry. Would you rob a house or trespass on another's property if you knew the owner had a gun and was trained to use it?

Guns themselves don't cause violence; it's the users of the guns who do. And even if we tightened up restrictions on them here in the US, we'd still have a nice inflow of illegal weapons on the black market from Mexico and South America, just like drugs. And we've got pretty tight restrictions on illicit drugs but they seem to have little trouble crossing the border. That's probably why gun control works better in western Europe--Most western European countries don't share an unsecured border with a drug- and crime-ridden hell (a. k. a. northern Mexico). They also don't have as many ports connecting them to other nations as the US does, so it would be more difficult to obtain illicit weapons there. But that's not how things are here I'm afraid. If the US had tight border security, especially with Mexico, then gun control might be more effective. But securing thousands of miles of land is prohibitably expensive and difficult, and with today's politics, most of the folks advocating tighter gun laws here are also against securing our southern border.

In America and in its current situation, probably the best way to prevent most gun violence would be to have more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. Like I said before, would you want to commit a crime in a neighborhood where you knew everybody had a gun? I don't think so. Gangs and drugs are the top causes of gun violence here in the US, and an armed citizenry has been proven to repel such activity very well.

But with these school shootings...they've very difficult situations in many ways. I was driving through Newtown, right by Sandy Hook Elementary School, on my way to work on the day of the shooting and witnessed much of it firsthand. It is very difficult emotionally to think about it, especially as I pass through there on my commute now, seeing the memorials and the big flag in the center of town flown at half staff. It hurts me a great deal to have to see that.

But another way in which these situations are difficult is the cause of them. They aren't like the other 99% of gun violence here in America. 9 times out of 10, it's a mentally ill person who finds some way to get his hands on weapons and then goes berzerk. There is no simple solution to prevent these crimes--the best thing I can think of is to have somebody at every school who is armed and trained to deal with these situations. But they arise so seldomly that few schools would actually follow through with something like that. I just don't know.
Title: Re: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 18 December 2012, 11:09:41
don't mind all the name callers, kl.  It's only their confirmation bias kicking in because they can't come to grips with the fact that they voted for and support mass murders.  If there were solid arguments against many of your points, they wouldn't have to resort to name calling.

Thank you sir. And don't worry, I don't mind them ;)
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Lanx on Tue, 18 December 2012, 11:58:16
prelim story is the kid wanted to buy a rifle 3 days prior, but wanted to forgo the background check(if someone with more knowledge of this subject can chime in) and instead decided to get at the cache of doomsday weapons his mom was stockpiling for 12-21-12.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 18 December 2012, 14:00:01
Relevant:

Show Image
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/537559_10152367316040503_236925743_n.jpg)

Signs don't prevent killing sprees.

\kl, just out of curiosity, do you hear voices in your head?
lmao

In this case specifically, the discussion shouldn't be "BAN ALL THE GUNS!" / "BANNING ANY GUNS MEANS WE LOSE ALL FREEDOM", it should be "What is the maximum freedom of arms we can safely allow, given our cultural and technological situation?"
Ah, how refreshing to read a sane comment for a change.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: iri on Tue, 18 December 2012, 14:02:01
"What is the maximum freedom of arms we can safely allow, given our cultural and technological situation?"
vermont-ish.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Tue, 18 December 2012, 14:04:52
It would be nice if such an approach would work here, but it has not.  Would a murderer will care if an additional weapons charge is added to his murder charge? He'll get life in prison or the death penalty no matter what.  Many of the states here in the US with the tightest gun restrictions also have the highest rates of murder and gun violence. Since they make it much more difficult to obtain permits to legally own firearms, or legally conceal firearms, they've got, for the most part, an unarmed citizenry. Would you rob a house or trespass on another's property if you knew the owner had a gun and was trained to use it?

Guns themselves don't cause violence; it's the users of the guns who do. And even if we tightened up restrictions on them here in the US, we'd still have a nice inflow of illegal weapons on the black market from Mexico and South America, just like drugs. And we've got pretty tight restrictions on illicit drugs but they seem to have little trouble crossing the border. That's probably why gun control works better in western Europe--Most western European countries don't share an unsecured border with a drug- and crime-ridden hell (a. k. a. northern Mexico). They also don't have as many ports connecting them to other nations as the US does, so it would be more difficult to obtain illicit weapons there. But that's not how things are here I'm afraid. If the US had tight border security, especially with Mexico, then gun control might be more effective. But securing thousands of miles of land is prohibitably expensive and difficult, and with today's politics, most of the folks advocating tighter gun laws here are also against securing our southern border.

In America and in its current situation, probably the best way to prevent most gun violence would be to have more guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. Like I said before, would you want to commit a crime in a neighborhood where you knew everybody had a gun? I don't think so. Gangs and drugs are the top causes of gun violence here in the US, and an armed citizenry has been proven to repel such activity very well.

But with these school shootings...they've very difficult situations in many ways. I was driving through Newtown, right by Sandy Hook Elementary School, on my way to work on the day of the shooting and witnessed much of it firsthand. It is very difficult emotionally to think about it, especially as I pass through there on my commute now, seeing the memorials and the big flag in the center of town flown at half staff. It hurts me a great deal to have to see that.

But another way in which these situations are difficult is the cause of them. They aren't like the other 99% of gun violence here in America. 9 times out of 10, it's a mentally ill person who finds some way to get his hands on weapons and then goes berzerk. There is no simple solution to prevent these crimes--the best thing I can think of is to have somebody at every school who is armed and trained to deal with these situations. But they arise so seldomly that few schools would actually follow through with something like that. I just don't know.

I more or less agree with this up until the last paragraph. Your suggested solution to violence with firearms in schools is to have an individual armed with a firearm at every school? *facepalm* I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't really think this through and the multitude of potential ways this could (and inevitably would in some cases) go wrong. You realise that most police officers shot in the USA were shot with their own weapon that a previously unarmed criminal decided to relieve them of?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Tue, 18 December 2012, 14:20:35
"What is the maximum freedom of arms we can safely allow, given our cultural and technological situation?"
vermont-ish.

According to the Constitution, we must be armed to a reasonable extent which protects us from the government. This is not nor will ever be the case.

You realise that most police officers shot in the USA were shot with their own weapon that a previously unarmed criminal decided to relieve them of?

Citation needed.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: aggiejy on Tue, 18 December 2012, 15:57:15
You realise that most police officers shot in the USA were shot with their own weapon that a previously unarmed criminal decided to relieve them of?

Citation needed.

Yeah, that sounds like a completely made up fact because it is.  Regardless of your position, debate with facts people!

Quote
There are no national statistics on how many times officers' guns are taken away. But the FBI says that of the 616 law enforcement officers killed on duty by criminals from 1994 through 2003, 52 were killed with their own weapon, amounting to 8 percent.

Source: http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/

8% is significant, but hardly "most".
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Tue, 18 December 2012, 16:30:09
Just imagine yourself living in a low-income neighborhood, where home invasions happen maybe once a week in your neighborhood. You'd sleep a lot better at night knowing that you had a gun to protect your family if someone decides to come in, relieve you of your valuable possessions, and maybe let you live.

Now imagine if you weren't allowed to have a gun. Isn't that scary?

All Democrats are Republicans who haven't been mugged yet.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 19 December 2012, 13:59:48
I am still not convinced the kid is responsible...

But I will say that I find it quite ironic when people wonder why kids kill, when their role models are murderers, liars and thieves. "Men of the Year". Nobel peace prize winners.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 19 December 2012, 14:05:50
Yeah, that sounds like a completely made up fact because it is.  Regardless of your position, debate with facts people!

Quote
There are no national statistics on how many times officers' guns are taken away. But the FBI says that of the 616 law enforcement officers killed on duty by criminals from 1994 through 2003, 52 were killed with their own weapon, amounting to 8 percent.

Source: http://www.policeone.com/close-quarters-combat/articles/100228-Cases-of-Officers-Killed-by-Their-Own-Guns-Likely-Will-Not-Change-R-I-Policies/

8% is significant, but hardly "most".

It's not most as in over 50%, it's most as in that is the highest figure out of the various classifications of weapon used to shoot police officers (besides legally purchased guns, which admittedly I neglected to clarify but it actually only supports my point further, rather than detracting from it).

Quote
Separately, guns obtained or taken from relatives or friends who legally owned them were used in 46 killings. 51 officers were killed when their department-issued firearms or another officer's gun were turned against them. In 41 instances, guns were illegally obtained on the streets through sale or barter. 16 times, someone bought a weapon for a person prohibited from having a gun, an unlawful transaction known as a straw purchase.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Wed, 19 December 2012, 14:16:04
Just imagine yourself living in a low-income neighborhood, where home invasions happen maybe once a week in your neighborhood. You'd sleep a lot better at night knowing that you had a gun to protect your family if someone decides to come in, relieve you of your valuable possessions, and maybe let you live.

That's great, except what about when an unarmed intruder promptly relieves you of your firearm then uses it against you/your family? Or what about when you don't have time to retrieve your gun by the time they've broken in and one of their demands is you hand it over along with the rest of your valuables? Congratulations, you just provided a violent criminal with a firearm, well done.

And yes, those scenarios do happen.

Quote
Unaware that Dukes was a cop, they ordered him into the house and demanded money. He told them about his safe in the master-bathroom closet. The detective's wife, Lynette, lay awake in bed, silent and still. She heard her husband identify himself as a police officer and offer them money for his family's safety.

The men forced Dukes to kneel in the bathroom. His wife was brought out and ordered to open the safe and then drop to her knees next to her husband. The suspects grabbed the money and an AR-15 assault rifle.
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They asked Dukes if he had other weapons. He directed them to his department-issued Glock handgun under the mattress on the right side of the bed.

Dukes had another Glock, an off-duty gun - the police report does not specify whether he had it on his person or somewhere in his house - which he drew and fired twice. Then the gun jammed. The thieves fired back with Dukes's police gun, striking him in his left arm and stomach. A bullet pierced his wife's left foot.

Dukes, an auto-theft detective and a 19-year veteran, died three weeks later. His wife survived. The alleged gunmen, Anthony Skidmore, now 22, and Chris Dillon, 21, are awaiting trial.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 19 December 2012, 15:50:44
The kid is directly responsible. But like I said before, society has failed to deal with him and prevent it. I know that there will be a day where society will understand more about those people and the proper way to deal with it. Most people concider it a taboo to say they are the same as us. Really they are the same just in different circumstances. Most people can't accept a person like him, disregarding them in our society. Really they should be concidered into our society, because they are there.(imagine you have a black eye but you wear sunglasses to cover it. Or you have blue eyes but you deny it)
 It is like concidering a population without accounting or concidering the needs of the blacks. If you get what I am saying. I really like to think that everyone I meet is my friend, brother, or sister. I know this may be hard to believe or understand but I say to myself that everyone has someone they really love in their life. Though it is not me I know if they were me, they would love my loved ones just as much as I would. And for the people that only love themself, I pity they as if I were in their situation, I would be the same way.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:20:47
I still find it more believable that, for instance, the CIA which kills children all the time could have something to do with this (esp. With the libor connection) than some random young kid with his whole life ahead of him.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:32:57
Though that is possible,  I think just from probability and the amount of people there are in the world, things like a child slaughterer are bound to happen just by chance. And the amount of neglected kids at home or at school, it is less of a surprise.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Wed, 19 December 2012, 16:56:37
Well, now they are talking about reinstating the "assault weapons" ban. Like THAT'S going to do ANYTHING.

And for those who are new to firearms, the term "assault weapon" is completely political. There is no such type of weapon; it is complete propaganda.


Truth and Fact makes the smoke and mirrors in front of this whole political charade quickly fade away.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Thu, 20 December 2012, 14:50:01

That's great, except what about when an unarmed intruder promptly relieves you of your firearm then uses it against you/your family? Or what about when you don't have time to retrieve your gun by the time they've broken in and one of their demands is you hand it over along with the rest of your valuables? Congratulations, you just provided a violent criminal with a firearm, well done.

And yes, those scenarios do happen.

That's a valid argument. But since you're going into a specific scenario and also using me as a variable, I'm telling you now it wouldn't go down that way if it were me, knowing what I know. Maybe that's how it'd play out if you were in that case but not me. Try again?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:14:14

That's great, except what about when an unarmed intruder promptly relieves you of your firearm then uses it against you/your family? Or what about when you don't have time to retrieve your gun by the time they've broken in and one of their demands is you hand it over along with the rest of your valuables? Congratulations, you just provided a violent criminal with a firearm, well done.

And yes, those scenarios do happen.

That's a valid argument. But since you're going into a specific scenario and also using me as a variable, I'm telling you now it wouldn't go down that way if it were me, knowing what I know. Maybe that's how it'd play out if you were in that case but not me. Try again?
Lol. Yeah right, that's what all Internet tough-guys think though. I guess you missed the part where a quoted an excerpt from an article about how this happened to a veteran detective of almost twenty years. But yeah, I'm sure you're much more capable than him Mr. Orange County keyboard-enthusiast cubicle worker. It doesn't matter how much time you've spent at the range or how many deluded Liam Neeson fantasies you've had, if you haven't been woken up in the middle of the night to a high stress situation where your life is in danger then you don't know **** about how well you'd actually do. Not only that but these things happen to guys who have been in those situations, like armed forces personnel, cops, etc. - you know, guys that have actually been tested under fire and had to shoot at human beings before rather than just posturing on the Internet about it. That's because it's not just about how prepared you are for the eventuality or how good a shot you are, it's also a lot to do with luck and variables.

You're exactly the kind of person I dislike for giving gun-owners (which again, I am) a bad name, by behaving like pathetic kids desperately trying to sound tough rather than responsible adults.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:24:56
On the contrary I think that a gun owner which agrees with legitimization of force at the point of a gun when it comes to government doing it rather than an individual is quite possibly the most dangerous kind.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:28:49
Yeah, but that's because you're bat**** insane, KL, and see the world in black and white where your (fairly extremist) opinion = right, and everything else = evil.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:33:54
Whoa, No need to get personal, just pointing out to you that in your model you used me as an example. You know nothing about me and I'm going to keep it that way (aside from what I shared with others in the thread discussing things we liked). There were reasons why the police officer responded the way he did (wife, occupation, location of weapons, mindset, physicial condition). I'm pointing out that my conditions are different, and since you singled me out, your assertion that the outcome would remain unchanged is erroneous.

Let's try again. My post was making the argument that making guns illegal would be unfair to those living in areas that could increase their chances of survivability against violent attacks. You made a point, which I acknowledged. And now I'm being called an internet tough guy because I stated that I've gotten training with firearms that I've purchased. Not knowing anything about me, please elaborate how the possibility of arming a violent criminal supercedes my currently legal right to own a firearm and become proficient in it.

Case 1: Bad guy comes into my house, I don't have any guns.
Case 2: Bad guy comes into my house, I have guns, but they will be taken from me because I'm not a 20 year old police detective who deals with dangerous situations at night
Case 3: Bad guy comes into my house, I have guns, and I know how to use them.

Also, remaining objective, so that we're on the same page, please describe an internet tough-guy, very specifically. It's a pretty wide umbrella term. I'm curious to see how you labeled me as such, knowing only what weapons I own and how proficient I am aiming to become.


Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:39:36
Wasn't one of the reason why we have guns is to over throw the government if we needed to?
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:46:17
Wasn't one of the reason why we have guns is to over throw the government if we needed to?

It was, but our commander in chief has tanks and missiles. It's hardly a fair fight.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: TheQsanity on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:46:54
Ikr, was kinda a joke  :p
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: keyboardlover on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:48:37
Malphas is like the Piers Morgan/Bill O'Reilly of Geekhack.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:49:40
Ikr, was kinda a joke  :p

lolol. sorry i've been defending myself against people trying to tell me how to live my life today. T_T

nolan was onto something. you either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Thu, 20 December 2012, 15:50:01
Ugh. Firstly no, we weren't discussing just your situation obviously, my usage of "you" is a thing called rhetoric, not talking about your specific situation, this should have been fairly obvious as you were making a case for owning firearms for home defense which is what I was rebutting.

Secondly, if we are talking about your specific situation - as an aside - then sorry, but I have no faith in your abilities in that kind of situation whatsoever, frankly. Admittedly, just from what I've read from you here, which isn't much, but from what I've read so far you just fit the archetype someone overcompensating for physical/emotional weakness (those are usually the kind of guys that jerk off over firearms and fantasise about vigilante type situations).

But none of that matters, because statistically/logically owning a firearm for home defence makes very little sense, except in very narrow circumstances. In order to be useful in a home invasion situation both the firearm and ammunition need to be somewhere closeby, probably in the same place, most likely insecure (as opposed to in a locked safe), and possibly even loaded. This is one the most irresponsible things a firearm owner can possibly do and the odds of a situation occuring where the firearm saves your life/property are massively outweighed by the chances of:

* Your kid(s) finding the firearm and injuring/killing themselves/you/someone else.

* Another member of your family or an acquaintance finding and taking the firearm, and selling/lending it into the black market (which is where most firearms circulating the USA come from, rather than from across the border or whatever).

* An intruder stealing it, either through burglary while you're not there/asleep, or taking it from you by force. Then either  using it against you/your family, committing another crime with it, or it finding it's way into the black market as per above.

Case 3: Bad guy comes into my house, I have guns, and I know how to use them.
If you think "knowing how to use them" means you're immune to being forcibly disarmed then you're utterly naive and hopelessly delusional in your own abilities. There's only so much anyone can do in a given circumstances - good luck if you end up pointing your pistol at one intruder and then another one whom you didn't even know was there comes up behind you and swings a bat into your head.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Thu, 20 December 2012, 16:13:35
It actually does matter, since from what you've written, I'm not entirely sure you know how to use a safe. You probably do, but in the case that you're assuming that I have no clue what a safe is for, allow me clarify. From what I understand a safe is to be utilized when a person is leaving their house and aren't allowed to bring your guns. The safe is to be stored in a secure location, bolted down, so it can't be lifted the casual burglar with no specialized tools in the event of a home invasion. When its time to sleep, you keep the weapon of choice, loaded, near yourself in the event you do need to use it. All other times when the person is not in the house, firearms are to be secured in the safe. This person is not going to let anyone but people that might need to protect themselves in the home to know the combination.

Regarding your response to my case. I wrote those cases down, because out of the three, Case 3 is the most desired situation. This, I'm pretty sure, is what everyone will choose, regardless about how they feel about firearms. I also did not imply "immunity" from disarmament. You also haven't responded to how the risk of disarmament by multiple attackers supercedes the right for anyone to purchase firearms to defend their family.  I really don't see where you're going with this other than trying to make me look bad, when I'm trying to have a rational discussion with you. Let's stop talking about me, and start looking at why you started attacking me personally when I acknowledged that the point you made about the risk of disarmament is true, but hasn't stopped you from owning a gun either.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: Malphas on Thu, 20 December 2012, 16:31:27
It actually does matter, since from what you've written, I'm not entirely sure you know how to use a safe. You probably do, but in the case that you're assuming that I have no clue what a safe is for, allow me clarify. From what I understand a safe is to be utilized when a person is leaving their house and aren't allowed to bring your guns. The safe is to be stored in a secure location, bolted down, so it can't be lifted the casual burglar with no specialized tools in the event of a home invasion. When its time to sleep, you keep the weapon of choice, loaded, near yourself in the event you do need to use it. All other times when the person is not in the house, firearms are to be secured in the safe. This person is not going to let anyone but people that might need to protect themselves in the home to know the combination.

This is much more acceptable that what your posts originally implied. I still think sleeping with a loaded firearm or a firearm with accessible ammunition nearby is absolutely idiotic and irresponsible though.

Regarding your response to my case. I wrote those cases down, because out of the three, Case 3 is the most desired situation. This, I'm pretty sure, is what everyone will choose, regardless about how they feel about firearms.

Not at all, for the reasons I already said and the actual example I gave, maybe you didn't pay attention. If you take a firearm into that scenario you're escalating that situation and potentially providing the intruder with a deadly weapon as well as making them much more likely to use deadly force against you. The upside is you might manage to use the firearm to protect yourself and your property, and in some cases that will happen but statistically having a firearm greatly increases your odds of coming to harm, which is why the advice of almost all police forces and the majority of security specialists is not to attempt to resist that type of situation, where someone is most likely only interested in your property (which is much less valuable than your life) and to simply keep calm, comply within reason and remember as much detail as possible about the offenders to enable the police to find them later.

I also did not imply "immunity" from disarmament.

Actually, yes you did precisely that here (emphasis mine):
That's a valid argument. But since you're going into a specific scenario and also using me as a variable, I'm telling you now it wouldn't go down that way if it were me, knowing what I know. Maybe that's how it'd play out if you were in that case but not me. Try again?
Incredible misplaced arrogance.

You also haven't responded to how the risk of disarmament by multiple attackers supercedes the right for anyone to purchase firearms to defend their family.

No, I didn't because I'm not pro-gun-control, I'm just anti-irresponsible idiots.
Title: Re: Elementary School Shooting, Newtown CT - 26 innocent dead, 20 children
Post by: swagpiratex on Thu, 20 December 2012, 17:15:34
Cool. I wasn't sure why you were going after me and I'm glad we established that I just rubbed you the wrong way.

I hope you guys already put in your taco order.

http://tacosfornoah.com/