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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: dezs on Sat, 02 February 2013, 05:47:28
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Hi board,
After having tried a BlackWidow at a friend's, I bought a WASD keyboard; both use MX blue switches, so I should get the same feeling, right?
Well, it seems to me that the WASD is not as crisp. What I mean is that on the BlackWidow, once you pass the bump, the switch gives way quite easily, while on the WASD, after the bump, there is only a very small travel before the force necessary to keep pushing the spring continues to build up. Does that make sense?
I'll admit that I didn't try both keyboards in the same conditions: my friend has a bigger desk, so my arms don't have the same position, and I have been using the BlackWidow for a much shorter trial. But still, I remember the BlackWidow nicer to type on. Have you experienced that too? Should one expect different feels when pressing down the same switch on different boards?
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impossible to say for sure, unless you have them side by side....
"Crisp" is not a precise definition.. :).. so it's hard to discuss it..
But in terms of stability, the WASD should be far superior due to the fact that each switch is mounted against a metal plate..
while, the black widow is pcb mounted.
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Different ages, different batches of switches, different case material and thickness, plate support, thickness and shape... All can play a factor to some extent.
In this case though, get them side by side and I bet the difference is far less pronounced than you remember.
Also, the Black Widow is plate mounted.
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I'll admit that I didn't try both keyboards in the same conditions: my friend has a bigger desk, so my arms don't have the same position, and I have been using the BlackWidow for a much shorter trial. But still, I remember the BlackWidow nicer to type on. Have you experienced that too?
I have experienced that keyboard's inclination and my posture (hand position, table height, chair height, etc) can make the typing feel different, even with the same switch.
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There are a lot of factors as you've described that will make different switches feel different to people. The main you've described in this case will be plate vs PCB mount. :)
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I believe both the Blackwidow and Filco that I have are both plate mounted. But they feel a lot different. My Filco feels more stable and almost linear. The Blackwidow almost emphasizes the blue's clicks and the keys are a bit wobbly. Also the layout really started to annoy me because the macro keys were in the way of the Esc key, which I use probably every 2 minutes at work lol.
I just bought a third board with blues and I fully expect it to be completely different as well. Looking forward to it ^_^
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I believe both the Blackwidow and Filco that I have are both plate mounted. But they feel a lot different. My Filco feels more stable and almost linear. The Blackwidow almost emphasizes the blue's clicks and the keys are a bit wobbly. Also the layout really started to annoy me because the macro keys were in the way of the Esc key, which I use probably every 2 minutes at work lol.
I just bought a third board with blues and I fully expect it to be completely different as well. Looking forward to it ^_^
Build quality on the Filco is much, much better than the BW, that's probably why. :)
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I believe both the Blackwidow and Filco that I have are both plate mounted. But they feel a lot different. My Filco feels more stable and almost linear. The Blackwidow almost emphasizes the blue's clicks and the keys are a bit wobbly. Also the layout really started to annoy me because the macro keys were in the way of the Esc key, which I use probably every 2 minutes at work lol.
I just bought a third board with blues and I fully expect it to be completely different as well. Looking forward to it ^_^
Build quality on the Filco is much, much better than the BW, that's probably why. :)
I'm finding that out pretty quickly. When I took the caps off the BW to clean them, it really showed. The stabilizer inserts on the BW were so weird/cheap and the stabilizer clips barely stayed attached to the board/plate. On my Filco the clips were solid and the inserts were like the ones from WASD and seemed like they were molded nice. Instead of the cheapo feel of the ones in the BW.
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Cherry blacks come in two types, the old ones being better. The new ones feel like they get progressively harder, to infinity. The old ones are more like reds, and I prefer them. To tell them appart, the old cherry blacks have the full world 'cherry' and the logo on the switch. I can't remember what the new ones had, but it was different I think.
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Cherry blacks come in two types, the old ones being better. The new ones feel like they get progressively harder, to infinity. The old ones are more like reds, and I prefer them. To tell them appart, the old cherry blacks have the full world 'cherry' and the logo on the switch. I can't remember what the new ones had, but it was different I think.
So do the new ones. The older ones just had it in a larger font. :)
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I believe both the Blackwidow and Filco that I have are both plate mounted. But they feel a lot different. My Filco feels more stable and almost linear. The Blackwidow almost emphasizes the blue's clicks and the keys are a bit wobbly.
A more marked click might describe what I felt. The other people in this thread seem to be saying they like their WASD / Filco better.
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The Blackwidow "is" plate mounted, but it may as well "not" be because it flexes so much, that you wonder why they put in that plate in the first place.
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Also, if you stabilizers are a little stiff.... it may be because your switches are not aligned properly during soldering... check...
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There are a lot of factors as you've described that will make different switches feel different to people. The main you've described in this case will be plate vs PCB mount. :)
So, what keyboard are PCB mounted? From what I've read, it would make the key feel soft at the end of the key travel, right?
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New switches sometimes need a break in period. Compare them again in a month or two.
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Different ages, different batches of switches, different case material and thickness, plate support, thickness and shape... All can play a factor to some extent.
I believe this hits it right on the head. In my experience, switch batch is a huge factor. I've come across different boards with MX Browns that seemed to have abnormally different springs. Also, I've had experiences where tactile or clicky bumps feel hugely different because of how the switch is constructed, with the gold leaf contact being pushed too close in or too far away from the bump.
Keycaps also make a difference.. there are some differences between SP, genuine Cherry/imsto, and OEM profile molds act differently when depressing a Cherry keyswitch. Also, I might be crazy, but there are possibly some differences between what people call "OEM" profile. Between Filco, Rosewill, and QFR caps, the Filco's keycaps might allow for a slightly longer key travel (which is more comfortable in my opinion).. I don't have any quantitative evidence on hand to prove this, but I have tried using the same width o-rings across the different types of caps and they felt and acted quite differently, even when swapping the caps across different boards. Haven't tried Ducky, KBT or any other types of OEM profile caps yet, though.
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Different ages, different batches of switches, different case material and thickness, plate support, thickness and shape... All can play a factor to some extent.
I believe this hits it right on the head. In my experience, switch batch is a huge factor. I've come across different boards with MX Browns that seemed to have abnormally different springs. Also, I've had experiences where tactile or clicky bumps feel hugely different because of how the switch is constructed, with the gold leaf contact being pushed too close in or too far away from the bump.
Keycaps also make a difference.. there are some differences between SP, genuine Cherry/imsto, and OEM profile molds act differently when depressing a Cherry keyswitch. Also, I might be crazy, but there are possibly some differences between what people call "OEM" profile. Between Filco, Rosewill, and QFR caps, the Filco's keycaps might allow for a slightly longer key travel (which is more comfortable in my opinion).. I don't have any quantitative evidence on hand to prove this, but I have tried using the same width o-rings across the different types of caps and they felt and acted quite differently, even when swapping the caps across different boards. Haven't tried Ducky, KBT or any other types of OEM profile caps yet, though.
you're crazy...
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Comparing orange apples and green oranges ...
They are both fruit, but.