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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 09:45:19

Title: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 09:45:19

Greetings!

The parts have arrived from Unicomp, Mouser, and PJRC, so I am officially starting the custom build of the "M-60", which will be a 60% version of the "Model M" Buckling Spring (B/S) keyboard.  "Model M" is in quotes, because no actual IBM/Lexmark Model M keyboards will be harmed in this project.  I am using a "new" Unicomp Classic 104 PS/2 keyboard as the base for the mod.  (Oddly enough, the plastic case is stamped with "Model M" near the bottom label.)

Anyhow, I will use some of the hidden switch locations, some custom keycaps from Unicomp, a Teensy-based Soarer USB converter, and careful Dremeling to create the layout below:

[attach=1]
Mock-up of M-60 Buckling Spring Keyboard

I have everything to make the keyboard as shown except the front-printed keycaps.  I will get those after the rest of the build is done.

I have not decided whether to mod the Unicomp case or to build a much more basic "case" like the Poker and Race use.  That is TBD after I work out the origami pattern for the B/S membrane and where to put the Unicomp controller and the Teensy.

Anyhow, more to come as the build progresses.  Apologies to everyone who said this would be terrible to do because it is their most-wanted keyboard.

Let's see how it goes...

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/Leo.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: mashby on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:05:55

 :eek: You have my full attention :eek:

You are combining my two favorite loves: BS switches and 60% layout. If there is anything I can do to help, please let me know.

Title: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Gupgup on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:11:01

Wow this would be amazing, can't wait so see the outcome!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: The_Beast on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:15:14

I bought a model M and was going to cut it up to make a 60% but I just never got around to it. Maybe this summer if I have nothing else to do....

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: keymaster on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:31:03

This will be so cool...That little thing producing buckling spring sounds :)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:40:52

It's so cute!  :p

I'm really interested in seeing how this turns out.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: regack on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:45:37

please please please document every step... so that I can recreate this at a later date :D

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: absyrd on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:46:38

Going to be awesome. Will rival hasu's and CC's mini-M's!

Title: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Gupgup on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:01:41

Quote from: regack on Wed, 06 February 2013, 10:45:37

please please please document every step... so that I can recreate this at a later date :D

I totally agree! Please :p

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: snoopy on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:04:11

Awesome project!

Lookin forward to see a lot of pics. :)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:10:06

Messages received.  I cannot promise an increased ability to take the pictures, but I can promise to increase their frequency.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/Leo.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:19:05

Quote from: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:10:06

Messages received.  I cannot promise an increased ability to take the pictures, but I can promise to increase their frequency.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Show Image

(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/Leo.png)

Potato pictures are always acceptable. The alternative of no pictures at all is not!  :p

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: inteli722 on Wed, 06 February 2013, 11:58:47

This is a definite will-follow thread. I haven't typed on a Model M, but I hear they're amazing, and its a 60% board!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 15:15:39

Ok, Day One, Raw Materials in photos...

[attach=1]
Unicomp Classic 104, Custom Keycaps, pivot/springs, Teensy

[attach=2]
Secret switches exposed

[attach=3]
Custom keycaps ordered via support.pckeyboard.com (http://support.pckeyboard.com)

[attach=4]
Teensy 2.0 and pivot/spring assemblies for the secret switches.

[attach=5]
Test install of custom keycaps

Next up: Bolt-mod, install pivot plates and possibly rough cut the plate to about 75%.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:21:15

Case is open and the initial cut-lines have been decided.

The flat dimensions of the plastic layer will be 11.50" x 4.75".  There is an easy-to see vertical mod line at 11.50" from the left edge, and an almost invisible horizontal line at 4.75" from the bottom edge.  The cross shown in this picture is where they intersect.  You can just make out the vertical line in the photo.

[attach=1]
Preliminary cut lines for the M-60

I will make these two cuts in the plastic during the bolt-mod process.   (See IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod. (http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Modifications:IBM_Model_M:Nut_and_Bolt_Mod))  I will cut the underlying metal 0.25" INSIDE these cuts so I can fold the membrane around the edge of the metal without it being visible under the plastic.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:25:54

Cool! Already halfway into the mod! Definitely watching this one!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: alaricljs on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:29:08

I think SmallFry is too use to Windows progress dialogs where the last 5% on the bar takes 95% of the time.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:30:50

Quote from: alaricljs on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:29:08

I think SmallFry is too use to Windows progress dialogs where the last 5% on the bar takes 95% of the time.

Indeed.  This is very much at the 5% mark.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Elrick on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:53:37

Quote from: samwisekoi on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:30:50

Quote from: alaricljs on Wed, 06 February 2013, 17:29:08

I think SmallFry is too use to Windows progress dialogs where the last 5% on the bar takes 95% of the time.

Indeed.  This is very much at the 5% mark.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Looks extremely interesting.  Please keep all of us posted on this.  Haven't seen a custom buckling-spring project like this before.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: calavera on Wed, 06 February 2013, 18:21:43

OMG this is very cool.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: lazerpointer on Wed, 06 February 2013, 18:31:20

This will be a lot of our dreams come true, including mine... If this works, I will try to follow your project and duplicate it.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: hashbaz on Wed, 06 February 2013, 18:36:52

The only thing cooler than this would be an F60.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 07 February 2013, 13:18:39

60% Bolt-mod complete.  All other plastic rivets have been decapitated.

[attach=1]
Model M* with 60% bolt-mod and all other rivets removed.

Next up: add spring/pivots to hidden switch locations and possibly cut plastic as defined previously.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

[edit] *I am tired of typing "Unicomp 104 Classic", so henceforth I shall refer to the donor keyboard as a "Model M." 

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: guilleguillaume on Thu, 07 February 2013, 13:29:09

I will be following this. Nice project.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: fohat.digs on Thu, 07 February 2013, 17:41:01

Why do you keep saying "possibly" cut plastic?

Everything has to be cut to the same footprint, doesn't it?

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Thu, 07 February 2013, 17:45:08

Quote from: fohat.digs on Thu, 07 February 2013, 17:41:01

Why do you keep saying "possibly" cut plastic?

Everything has to be cut to the same footprint, doesn't it?

Sorry; I mean "possibly today" I will cut the plastic.

I will be cutting the plastic.  Possibly today. ;)

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: rknize on Fri, 08 February 2013, 02:06:45

Keeping an eye on this too.  I may sacrifice my Unicomp EnduraPro to this cause (as I type this on my F-122).  :o

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Elrick on Fri, 08 February 2013, 02:53:43

I hope everything goes to plan for your Buckling Spring Project.  What your keyboard desperately needs, is an all CNC'd anodised Aluminum Case.

You can just imagine how great that baby would look just sitting there on the desk all nice and heavy.

I have a feeling that most who still like using a BS keyboard would even jump on for an Aluminum Case Group Buy, to help lower the total cost of machining multiple items from one factory.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: mashby on Fri, 08 February 2013, 07:48:20

Quote from: Elrick on Fri, 08 February 2013, 02:53:43

I have a feeling that most who still like using a BS keyboard would even jump on for an Aluminum Case Group Buy, to help lower the total cost of machining multiple items from one factory.

Oh hell yeah! I'd be all over that GB like a spider monkey.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: regack on Fri, 08 February 2013, 08:12:42

Quote from: mashby on Fri, 08 February 2013, 07:48:20

Quote from: Elrick on Fri, 08 February 2013, 02:53:43

I have a feeling that most who still like using a BS keyboard would even jump on for an Aluminum Case Group Buy, to help lower the total cost of machining multiple items from one factory.

Oh hell yeah! I'd be all over that GB like a spider monkey.

Count me in on this idea...

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 08 February 2013, 09:18:28

I made much progress last night, but my pictures are trapped in this "camera" device I am using.  I will upload pics as soon as I can release the demons.

Plastic was cut.  So was metal.  There is now a 60% PS/2 B/S keyboard sitting in a full-sized Model M enclosure.

I am going to do internals and electronics and then figure out the case.   I am definitely folding the plastic or folding the project.  The man who is making traces is mkawa, not me!

Anyhow, lots of stuff will be inside, so the case may have to be large for a 60%

We will see.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/Leo.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 08 February 2013, 12:01:44

This is where we are so far.  I will post build photos in a bit.

[attach=1]
M-60 installed in full-size case; no electronics yet.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 08 February 2013, 13:32:40

OK, apologies in advance for the length of this post.  I believe I was told in no uncertain terms that poeople following this thread wanted pictures, so here you go...

I should really have taken the keycaps off before I did this:

[attach=1]
Metal plate off, exposing matrix and membrane

[attach=2]
Backside of keyboard showing all the pivot/spring assemblies.

NOTE: I used an unused plastic barrel plate, so it still had plastic flash in some of the tiny little spots.  If you modify the barrel plate from a working keyboard, this won't be a problem, but if you use a new one, then make sure you remove any flash.  The pivot plates need to be able to move freely, or the switch won't close when the spring buckles.  It is very obvious when there is a problem and when the pivot plate is moving freely.

[attach=3]
Front side before any cutting happened.

[attach=4]
Unicomp PS/2 keyboard controller, making contact via pressing against the mylar matrix.
All together; top-view.
I am going to have to replicate or re-use the plastic pressure plate somehow.  And I can't test the switches until I figure this bit out.

[attach=5]
Reduce, reuse, recycle!  And don't lose any of the tiny bits.

[attach=6]
60% of the plastic barrel plate with pivot/springs installed.

This is really hard to do well.  I need a fixture that supports the barrel plate at least 1" above the work surface so the springs can dangle freely.  A 2x6 piece of hardwood and a 1/2" drill may be deployed if I have to do this assembly again.

[attach=7]
Membrane and matrix press-fit back in place.  Carefully!

[attach=8]
Metal plate cut-down to be smaller than the plastic plate is now attached.  Carefully.

[attach=9]
All together; top-view.

[attach=10]
And in the big case for now.

Ok, once I figure out how to re-attach the Unicomp PS/2 controller, I will test the switches.

The journey continues...

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 08 February 2013, 14:40:01

Modified keyboard connected to Unicomp controller.  Almost 100% failure to register keystrokes.

Since the keyboard has no NKRO, any key that is compressed by mis-assembly could prevent others from registering.

On to mechanical de-bug mode now.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Alessandro on Fri, 08 February 2013, 14:44:22

This is very awesome, count me to be interest.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: fohat.digs on Fri, 08 February 2013, 16:11:23

I need another project like I need a hole in the head.

Now I know something to do with the 4+ Model M carcasses I have laying around.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 08 February 2013, 18:32:18

Friday afternoon project update.

After re-assembling the keyboard twice, I was able to determine the problem and a path to solution.

(http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=40006.0;attach=13130;image)
Unicomp controller with mechanical connection to matrix.

This controller has edge connectors on the underside when viewed from the top.  These edge connectors are pressed against two layers of mylar with traces printed on in conductive ink.  Three layers of connector must make solid contact in order for the controller to get signals from a keypress.  Unfortunately, this connection is enforced by squeezing the three layers between the plastic barrel plate and the metal backing plate.

This pressure connection must be maintained along an edge approximately three inches in length.  Any bowing or shifting means some or all of the traces will not make connection.  Further, this connection is held in place by pieces of metal and plastic that won't be present in the folded M-60.

So I will need to make a joining fixture OR a PCBA containing the Unicomp controller and the Teensy.  Perhaps with a proper edge connector from a PC motherboard.

I will think about a design this weekend.  I will be very busy next week, so this project will slow down for a while.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: calavera on Fri, 08 February 2013, 19:05:35

(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/calaveratf/mother-of-god-meme_zps6a23cb56.jpg)

Title: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Gupgup on Fri, 08 February 2013, 19:31:15

Soo jealous of this project and your knowledge..

*Gupgup starts chanting "Group B.. Group Buy.. Group Buy.."

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Fri, 08 February 2013, 20:31:44

Quote from: Gupgup on Fri, 08 February 2013, 19:31:15

Soo jealous of this project and your knowledge..

*Gupgup starts chanting "Group B.. Group Buy.. Group Buy.."

Any knowledge I have was obtained by reading GH posts, talking to GH members, and trying things out slowly and carefully.

I thank GeekHack for making it possible, and am sure that anyone else here could do the same through interest, courtesy, and a willingness to learn through trial and error.  Especially learning from error.

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: mkawa on Sat, 09 February 2013, 02:08:12

i have plenty of samples of the two ssk layers

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 09 February 2013, 15:30:40

Howdy pardnersl

I'm going to split this topic into two threads.

- Ron | samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 10 February 2013, 12:42:33

Project update. Custom clamp machined out of .250 x .250 steel bar stock, drilled and tapped for a pair of #4-40 machine screws.

Appears to work. I will test and post pictures tomorrow.

- Ron | samwisekoi

p.s. wcass - delete and re-add the post?  mkawa will know.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: wcass on Wed, 06 March 2013, 23:09:35

any pictures?

i had a case idea i wanted to throw out.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
sides are CNC milled wood (oak, cherry, maple, bamboo), aluminum, or 3D printed plastic.
bottom is common aluminum sheet 12.75" x 7" x .03".
rear piece is common aluminum angle 1" x 1/16" thick.
front piece is common aluminum angle 1/2" x 1/16" plus semi-common aluminum extrusion
orange (http://www.orangealuminum.com/edge-trim-1007/edge-trim-131.html)
brunnerent (http://www.brunnerent.com/Tools/Portfolio/frontend/item.asp?type=11&size=0&lngDisplay=0&jPageNumber=6&strMetaTag=)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: RougeR on Sat, 09 March 2013, 11:18:29

/me is monitoring this thread

...how is the controller going to be done?

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 09 March 2013, 14:33:08

Quote from: RougeR on Sat, 09 March 2013, 11:18:29

/me is monitoring this thread

...how is the controller going to be done?

Current plan is a Unicomp PS/2 controller to a Soarer and USB out.

Unicomp controller is curently unhappy with the cut-down chassis, and I have been tied up with Retro DSA. The prototype M-60 is sitting on my desk glowering at me.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: guilleguillaume on Sun, 10 March 2013, 15:11:44

Very intesresting and this could start a new trend with mini-buckling spring keyboards.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: tricheboars on Mon, 11 March 2013, 01:02:39

waiting for OP to deliver...

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 11 March 2013, 10:30:35

Quote from: tricheboars on Mon, 11 March 2013, 01:02:39

waiting for OP to deliver...

Me too!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: phetto on Mon, 11 March 2013, 14:16:06

WOW RON!!! Nice work. You are acctually doing something that most people only dream of.. Looking forward to the final board :D

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 11 March 2013, 14:48:05

Thanks.  Here it is in its life-support cradle...

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Title: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: duq on Mon, 11 March 2013, 14:54:48

This is quite awesome.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: CPTBadAss on Mon, 11 March 2013, 15:55:49

D'awww, it's so cute!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Viz on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:00:59

My god, thanks sam.
I'm broke, but I won't let go of my SSK(yet). Now, this looks even better than my SSK, so maybe i'll get my dream board, and some extra cash? heheh.
Anyways, thanks!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: E TwentyNine on Sun, 17 March 2013, 14:43:47

Quote from: samwisekoi on Sat, 09 March 2013, 14:33:08

Current plan is a Unicomp PS/2 controller to a Soarer and USB out.

Unicomp controller is curently unhappy with the cut-down chassis, and I have been tied up with Retro DSA. The prototype M-60 is sitting on my desk glowering at me.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Can I ask why you didn't start the project with a Unicomp USB keyboard?

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sun, 17 March 2013, 14:53:08

Quote from: E TwentyNine on Sun, 17 March 2013, 14:43:47

Quote from: samwisekoi on Sat, 09 March 2013, 14:33:08

Current plan is a Unicomp PS/2 controller to a Soarer and USB out.

Unicomp controller is curently unhappy with the cut-down chassis, and I have been tied up with Retro DSA. The prototype M-60 is sitting on my desk glowering at me.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Can I ask why you didn't start the project with a Unicomp USB keyboard?

Sure.

I am remapping some of the keys and adding a function layer. That means I need to capture the scancodes and convert them before I send them to the PC. The easiest way to do this is by using the Soarer PS/2-to-USB converter, which is specifically optimized for remapping IBM keyboards. There is no simple equivalent for USB-to-USB conversion.

 - Ron I samwisekoi

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: wcass on Sun, 17 March 2013, 15:30:40

Quote from: E TwentyNine on Sun, 17 March 2013, 14:43:47

Can I ask why you didn't start the project with a Unicomp USB keyboard?

i look at it differently. samwisekoi is stirring interest and attempting to resolve some of the many challenges using known working methods.
problem: some keys need to be reassigned. known to work solution: teensy with Soarer's
problem: smaller membrane. known to work solution: folded membrane.
problem: smaller case. known to work solution: cut and glue existing case.

both successes and failures help the community by identifying problems and the effectiveness of various solutions.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: r3dx on Sun, 17 March 2013, 15:42:55

very inspiring samwisekoi. I can't wait to see the final product. I'm also very intrigued about the possibility of making my own in the future :D

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: OrangeJewce on Sun, 17 March 2013, 17:06:49

Quote from: wcass on Sun, 17 March 2013, 15:30:40

Quote from: E TwentyNine on Sun, 17 March 2013, 14:43:47

Can I ask why you didn't start the project with a Unicomp USB keyboard?

i look at it differently. samwisekoi is stirring interest and attempting to resolve some of the many challenges using known working methods.
problem: some keys need to be reassigned. known to work solution: teensy with Soarer's
problem: smaller membrane. known to work solution: folded membrane.
problem: smaller case. known to work solution: cut and glue existing case.

both successes and failures help the community by identifying problems and the effectiveness of various solutions.

Case is one of, if not the, greatest challenge for any new BS board IMO. No case has the ability to handle the curved barrels/plate outside of originals and you can see how that problem has affected the SSKR project as well. That leaves destroying vintage cases for the cause, which I'm sure most would rather not do.

Cheers,

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: wcass on Sun, 17 March 2013, 17:35:40

agreed. i am a bit of a tinkerer too and am trying to address some of these problem issues. the controller issue is essentially resolved. it can be replaced by an Atmel IC just as has been done with many custom keyboards. Hasu has agreed to help me with this do this. the membranes - i'm working on that now in another thread. if the plan works as expected then NKRO.

and i have a few ideas for a case, but am trying to keep focused on the membrane issue until that is proven. 

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: OrangeJewce on Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:13:59

Quote from: wcass on Sun, 17 March 2013, 17:35:40

agreed. i am a bit of a tinkerer too and am trying to address some of these problem issues. the controller issue is essentially resolved. it can be replaced by an Atmel IC just as has been done with many custom keyboards. Hasu has agreed to help me with this do this. the membranes - i'm working on that now in another thread. if the plan works as expected then NKRO.

and i have a few ideas for a case, but am trying to keep focused on the membrane issue until that is proven. 

Manufacturing membranes is also a challenge. So is getting real 60% barrel plates made. Jury-rigging one from a unicomp 101 is a little silly imo.

Cheers,

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Plater on Mon, 25 March 2013, 12:44:54

Please make this a GB. I would definitely going buying a bunch!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Mon, 25 March 2013, 13:02:19

Quote from: OrangeJewce on Sun, 17 March 2013, 19:13:59

Manufacturing membranes is also a challenge. So is getting real 60% barrel plates made. Jury-rigging one from a unicomp 101 is a little silly imo.

Cheers,

Yes; this was just for a proof-of-concept.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: JWK on Tue, 26 March 2013, 08:58:31

To connect to a cut-down full size membrane, it would be relatively easy to fabricate a very thin piece of circuit board material and use the barrel plate and back plate to clamp it in place -- to make a pressure-fit connection to the membrane.  If there was a strip along the top side and right side of the membrane, then traces on the circuit board could connect any membrane traces interupted by the cutting, and bring necessary traces out to a ribbon cable connector. 

Have you asked whether perhaps Unicomp would let you use their CAD files as a starting point for a new CAD file?  You might have to agree to license the new CAD file back to them.  And perhaps they would connect you with their vendors to fabricate a run of membranes -- maybe split the tooling cost in exchange for a hundred pieces. 

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Tue, 26 March 2013, 09:27:40

Quote from: JWK on Tue, 26 March 2013, 08:58:31

To connect to a cut-down full size membrane, it would be relatively easy to fabricate a very thin piece of circuit board material and use the barrel plate and back plate to clamp it in place -- to make a pressure-fit connection to the membrane.  If there was a strip along the top side and right side of the membrane, then traces on the circuit board could connect any membrane traces interrupted by the cutting, and bring necessary traces out to a ribbon cable connector. 

Have you asked whether perhaps Unicomp would let you use their CAD files as a starting point for a new CAD file?  You might have to agree to license the new CAD file back to them.  And perhaps they would connect you with their vendors to fabricate a run of membranes -- maybe split the tooling cost in exchange for a hundred pieces.

If only...

The back and barrel plate don't cover the mylar, there is a sort of "snap-in" pressure connection.  So I have done what you suggest using steel bar stock and 4-40 bolts.  Unfortunately, this only works for the column circuits, not the rows.  The rows are located such that an additional pressure connection is needed, but there is room for a bolt-hole only on one side.  So my latest fix for that is a pair of 1cm x 2cm flat magnets holding the membrane sections together in that location.

Anyhow, I also assumed it would be relatively simple, and in fact have the correct portion of the barrel plate cut out for my first experiment.  It did not provide enough constant pressure to make reliable contact, so I moved on to the complicated method described above.

This project is currently very low on the list for me, so I have not worked on it much recently.  There is also a thread elsewhere on GH describing others' work on a custom membrane.

Thanks!

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/Leo.png)

Title: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: phetto on Wed, 10 April 2013, 09:58:25

You should complete this, make a list of what's needed to do this yourself and you will become a legend! :D

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: tipo33 on Fri, 19 April 2013, 21:33:20

This is amazing.  I also would be all over an aluminium case for an M...

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: zoolzoo on Sat, 20 April 2013, 10:37:00

Post a full work log and / or make a GB!  :eek:

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: NYCesquire on Mon, 22 April 2013, 21:44:12

I am also interested in how this progresses.  I just ordered a unicomp 104 key, but I intend to keep it 104 key, make a custom enclosure, and mod in a bluetooth adapter.  I am following this very closely, Samwise. Don't let us down!

WCass: Did you do any additional work on designing an enclosure?  Those sketchup files are a great start!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:30:27

This project is right where it has been.  On my desk glaring at me every day and waiting for me to finish the GH75 custom build and the Retro DSA shipments.

It shall be done, but it needs some cycles to free up.

 - Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/GH75.png)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Michael on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:31:59

I wish I could find the old thread with photos of the one ClickClack did. It was amazing. Had a LED on the capslock, too

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: samwisekoi on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:35:18

Quote from: Bro Caps on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:31:59

I wish I could find the old thread with photos of the one ClickClack did. It was amazing. Had a LED on the capslock, too

Goddammit.  Feature creep!

Now I have to find a Model M windowed capslock!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: NYCesquire on Tue, 30 April 2013, 16:00:00

Quote from: samwisekoi on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:35:18

Quote from: Bro Caps on Sat, 27 April 2013, 10:31:59

I wish I could find the old thread with photos of the one ClickClack did. It was amazing. Had a LED on the capslock, too

Goddammit.  Feature creep!

Now I have to find a Model M windowed capslock!

Is it possible to backlight keys on a buckling spring?

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: wcass on Tue, 30 April 2013, 18:50:58

my daily driver has an "under key" caps lock LED. i like this better than the "on key" LED.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21436.0 (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=21436.0)
the picture got stripped out, but i think i have copies around here somewhere.

a flash washes the LED out, so here is a shot without a flash
[attach=1]

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: NYCesquire on Tue, 30 April 2013, 19:15:24

I'd love to see those pics if you do find them!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: E TwentyNine on Tue, 30 April 2013, 19:20:54

wcass, you have more pics of that board?  Was thinking of doing something just like that...

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: wcass on Tue, 30 April 2013, 21:02:00

Quote from: E TwentyNine on Tue, 30 April 2013, 19:20:54

wcass, you have more pics of that board?  Was thinking of doing something just like that...

it really is a great board - my current favorite which is why it is my home daily driver.
i'll pull together what i have on it and re-post in "making stuff together"

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: E TwentyNine on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:12:54

Quote from: wcass on Tue, 30 April 2013, 21:02:00

Quote from: E TwentyNine on Tue, 30 April 2013, 19:20:54

wcass, you have more pics of that board?  Was thinking of doing something just like that...

it really is a great board - my current favorite which is why it is my home daily driver.
i'll pull together what i have on it and re-post in "making stuff together"

Apart from all the obvious things, one thing I'm interested in is what you used to paint the case.  I did my hacked SSK and the paint is not holding up well (even with plastic primer), going to redo it.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:19:04

Why, that looks to be an M-75.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: E TwentyNine on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:26:17

Quote from: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Might be useful to post a little info on where you found that picture.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: mashby on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:38:11

(http://i.imgur.com/scUXO.gif)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: uzoc on Thu, 02 May 2013, 10:06:10

Quote from: E TwentyNine on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:26:17

Quote from: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Might be useful to post a little info on where you found that picture.

He got it from his computer and then photoshopped it...

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: iiiGerardoiii on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:43:00

Quote from: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Where did you got that pic??

That's my old modded model m, i'm not using it right now, i need the numeric keypad so i use the huge one.

(http://i.imgur.com/kwoge6s.jpg)

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: esoomenona on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:50:10

Show us more angles, bottom, etc. And how did you mod it?

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: inteli722 on Thu, 02 May 2013, 20:48:46

Quote from: iiiGerardoiii on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:43:00

Quote from: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Where did you got that pic??

That's my old modded model m, i'm not using it right now, i need the numeric keypad so i use the huge one.

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/kwoge6s.jpg)

That thing is awesome.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: BlueBär on Fri, 03 May 2013, 00:48:46

Quote from: iiiGerardoiii on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:43:00

Where did you got that pic??

Wait, this thing is real? Want.
I think somebody found it on /g/ and posted it here in a different thread. Amazing mod you did there.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Moosecraft on Fri, 03 May 2013, 06:29:36

Sexiest board ever!

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: RougeR on Fri, 03 May 2013, 17:50:57

Quote from: BlueBär on Fri, 03 May 2013, 00:48:46

Quote from: iiiGerardoiii on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:43:00

Where did you got that pic??

Wait, this thing is real? Want.
I think somebody found it on /g/ and posted it here in a different thread. Amazing mod you did there.

Quote from: iiiGerardoiii on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:43:00

Quote from: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Where did you got that pic??

That's my old modded model m, i'm not using it right now, i need the numeric keypad so i use the huge one.

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/kwoge6s.jpg)

i saw it posted on /g/
inb4 4chan

post up how you did it, seems this thread is very similar in line...how the **** are the joints so near

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: zoolzoo on Sat, 04 May 2013, 05:12:08

Quote from: iiiGerardoiii on Thu, 02 May 2013, 18:43:00

Quote from: RougeR on Thu, 02 May 2013, 09:17:14

wtf is this...

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/YvnLtoy.jpg)

Where did you got that pic??

That's my old modded model m, i'm not using it right now, i need the numeric keypad so i use the huge one.

Show Image

(http://i.imgur.com/kwoge6s.jpg)

you have a strange thumb

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: vivalarevolución on Fri, 10 May 2013, 11:16:19

Just stumbled in on this project.  A dream board, if there ever was one.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 10 May 2013, 11:17:26

I can't wait for this summer. I have a fullsized model M waiting for a weight reductions and maybe even a wood enclosure :D

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: The_Ed on Fri, 10 May 2013, 11:56:12

A model M weight reduction?! :eek:

Why would you do such a thing? How are you going to use it as a weapon when the zombie apocalypse comes?

But in all seriousness, how would you cut out any of the weight? Wood will weigh more than plastic...

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: tipo33 on Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:21:08

Ohhh.  A wooden case M.....   why must you taunt me so??

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Matt3o on Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:58:15

I can't believe I missed this thread... there're so many interesting things going on on this forum

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: Moosecraft on Mon, 24 June 2013, 17:01:23

Quote from: Matt3o on Mon, 24 June 2013, 08:58:15

I can't believe I missed this thread... there're so many interesting things going on on this forum

DIY seems to a FOTM among forum members, I quite like it because there are so many unique projects available at all times.

Title: Re: M-60: A 60% Buckling Spring Keyboard (Like a tiny Model M)
Post by: dgreekstallion on Fri, 13 September 2013, 18:05:52

Quote from: tipo33 on Fri, 10 May 2013, 14:21:08

Ohhh.  A wooden case M.....   why must you taunt me so??

I'm thinking of getting a wood case for my Model F. :)