geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: xsphat on Fri, 07 December 2007, 01:13:25
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What do you like / dislike about the HHKB Pro *aside from price / availability*?
Would you / did you buy a second unit for a backup?
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I dislike that the the HHKB Pro does not have a USB hub nor pass-through port on it. I'd consider buying a Pro 2 for this reason alone.
I've got enough DIFFERENT keyboards that I like that I can't seen storing multiple keyboards of the same type out of paranoia that one will break down. Now, if they totally discontinue the HHKB's, then sure, I might pick up another one...but I won't keep one (or several) in mothballs for the sole reason of having an immediate replacement if one dies/breaks/etc.
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The USB hub on the Pro 2 is FAST! It's the fasted hub I've ever used. I didn't know the Pro 1 lacked the hub entirely, I thought it had one at USB 1.0.
See, my thinking is this - my HHKB will most likely live a max of 10 years, and when it's broke it's gone for good and by that time they won't be available so I will be just be SOL. So I kind of want to buy a backup unit, but I kind of don't because who knows what'll happen in the future, like the HHKB Pro 3 or whatever. Another reason is baby boy, who will soon grow into a variable nightmare for delicate electronics, so the HHKB is in constant danger of getting FUBAR from any number of circumstances.
If I buy a second, I would most likely get a different color and toss it in the current rotation so it doesn't start smelling of mothballs.
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And to think you were about to sell yours! In 10 years time I'm sure we'll have direct computer-to-brain interfaces... or scissor-switch keyboards only (with OLEDs on each key). The latter more likely. I too go through these phases where I think "it's the one" and that I should buy a few extra just in case. But then I use another one of my keyboards and the compulsion passes. I've not found a perfect board for me yet. (Nekkid Alps could be it... but then they are no longer made, so I'd have to hoard some just in case).
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Stock up on mechanical-switch keyboards!! Get two of everything, especially the ones with Alps sliders!! Hoard your keyboards, guard'em with your life!! Sustain yourself with mechanicals during this Dark Age of membrane mediocrity.
Look at elmomax and xsphat and their SMK-85's with black Alps sliders. Loves hers to smithereens, says she. Best key action he's ever experienced, says he. AND NOW THEY CANNOT FIND REPLACEMENTS. And now elmomax is sorry she didn't get five more when she first bought hers. Let that be a lesson learned.
I'm one of those paranoid enough to want a spare in reserve for something as nice as the HHKB Pro 2, so yes, I'm thinking of getting another one, for use as a spare, or as something I could take to work with me. I'd probably stick with charcoal, but I may try the black on black one instead of the blank model. Those close-ups in xsphat's photos make the black on black lettering look ultra-cool.
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Get 2 of every color.
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I actually have 3 buckling sprin keyboards, one model M5-2, a M5-1 and a very rare one i think with UK layout but this is not of the Model M family.
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I travel with my HHKB Pro, so that is another reason I would like to buy a second one. And for the record, the black on black is the best looking one in my opinion.
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And to think you were about to sell yours!
And then I realized that the HHKB Pro 2 is the only keyboard in current product which is NOT made by Strongman.
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Elmomax is sitting here stroking her beloved SMK 85 with tears in her eyes -- still haunting the web searching for a second keyboard. Kicking myself for not buying several of these when I could.
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Elmomax is sitting here stroking her beloved SMK 85 with tears in her eyes -- still haunting the web searching for a second keyboard. Kicking myself for not buying several of these when I could.
Well, this (http://nationalergo.com/frame.cfm?ProductID=166&CategoryID=9) place claims to still have some in stock at $70 per...
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Elmomax is sitting here stroking her beloved SMK 85 with tears in her eyes -- still haunting the web searching for a second keyboard. Kicking myself for not buying several of these when I could.
Well, this (http://nationalergo.com/frame.cfm?ProductID=166&CategoryID=9) place claims to still have some in stock at $70 per...
They do indeed. That's where I got my silver-and-black SMK-85 a few weeks ago. Genuine Alps -- not Strongman -- sliders. But they're white Alps, not the black Alps sliders that are on elmomax's beloved SMK-85.
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Elmomax is sitting here stroking her beloved SMK 85 with tears in her eyes -- still haunting the web searching for a second keyboard. Kicking myself for not buying several of these when I could.
Behold elmomax's tragic fate, people! Stock up! You buckling spring buckaroos, you Alps advocates, you champions of the Cherry, you Happy Hacking capacitance cultists. All of you, stock up!
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Elmomax is sitting here stroking her beloved SMK 85 with tears in her eyes -- still haunting the web searching for a second keyboard. Kicking myself for not buying several of these when I could.
Behold elmomax's tragic fate, people! Stock up! You buckling spring buckaroos, you Alps advocates, you champions of the Cherry, you Happy Hacking capacitance cultists. All of you, stock up!
Word!
I think I am going to buy a second HHKB soon, the black ivory model this time.
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What do you like / dislike about the HHKB Pro *aside from price / availability*?
I forgot to answer this part. I like:
1) The tiny form factor. Someone who's not familiar with it would have trouble deciding whether it's a very sophisticated board that's an exemplar of geek chic or just a cheap kiddie toy.
2) The USB hub. It's my only board with a USB hub.
3) The very distinctive key feel. It's pillowy and springy at the same time. It's supposed to have 4mm travel, but man, it feels a lot longer than that, as if my fingers were falling forever, and then they spring up again, like on a trampoline. It feels like no other keyboard I have.
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1) The tiny form factor. Someone who's not familiar with it would have trouble deciding whether it's a very sophisticated board that's an exemplar of geek chic or just a cheap kiddie toy.
2) The USB hub. It's my only board with a USB hub.
3) The very distinctive key feel. It's pillowy and springy at the same time. It's supposed to have 4mm travel, but man, it feels a lot longer than that, as if my fingers were falling forever, and then they spring up again, like on a trampoline. It feels like no other keyboard I have.
I've been taking a HHKB Pro (non-v.2) back and forth to/from work (no way I leave something I care about at work). It is VERY portable. And just it's mere presence at work has prompted 3 co-workers to start "saving up" for one themselves. :)
The one big problem I have with the HHKB Pro is the LACK of a USB hub. Since I carry a Logitech Trackman Marble with me as well, it would be very nice to be able to plug it into the keyboard.
BTW, nice description of the HHKB Pro key feel...I think you pretty much nailed it.
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I take mine back and forth to work and school as well, and I took it to the hospital to document the birth of my baby, so you could say the HHKB Pro 2 has a special place in my heart. It is a great keyboard an dI also think mr_sf_applet nailed the description of the key feel. When most people look at my HHKB, they ask where I got it, then I tell them of the price and rarity of it and then they ask what else it does.
I don't think I'll be selling any of them for PFU, but I will use it until it dies without a doubt.
I also like the small form factor and I really like the way it looks and feels to use. My favorite thing about it is that it fits perfectly over the keyboard on the MacBook so I can use it sitting in my chair and still have the entire touch pad available for mousing. It costs a lot, but it is worth it if you ask me.
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Do they make the HHKPRO with the european layout?
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Do they make the HHKPRO with the european layout?
Nope. Just Us and Japanese. Does the US layout not have something you use often? If so, it may be accessable by a US 'board by using option / alt key combos.
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I want the same keyswitches as the HHKP2, but not the HHKP2.
Cross-posting this to a more relevant thread. :)
I'm curious what you beef is with the HHKB Pro 2. I'm a HHKB Pro owner and my only beef with the keyboard is that it doesn't have a built-in USB hub (a deficiency that is rectified with the v.2 model).
I really like the feel of the blue cherries, the buckling springs, and the capacitive switches on the HHKB Pro's. If I had to rank them, it would likely go blue cherry, bs, and then the capacitive switches in a VERY close third. However, they are all close enough that if I had to stick with any of the three, I'd be perfectly happy.
It's the HHKB key layout that has me stuck on this keyboard for now. Specifically, the backspace/del key. I've got small pinkies...so this is really the only keyboard I can effectively hit that key with my pinky.
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You rank blue cherries ahead of the buckling spring? I thought the model m was your absolute favourite? WRT HHKBP2, I don't know, for some reason it just doesn't do it for me. I don't want 200 keys, but I want to get my money's worth. Also even fewer people outside Japan have the topre, so I be more l33t than you.
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BTW, there is this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-PD-KB02_W0QQitemZ130182993891QQihZ003QQcategoryZ33964QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) on ebay. Pretty sure it's the one without the capacitive switches.
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You rank blue cherries ahead of the buckling spring? I thought the model m was your absolute favourite? WRT HHKBP2, I don't know, for some reason it just doesn't do it for me. I don't want 200 keys, but I want to get my money's worth. Also even fewer people outside Japan have the topre, so I be more l33t than you.
I do love typing on my Model M mini...however, I fell absolutely in LOVE with the blue cherries when I got my two SMK-88's equipped with them. However, that keyboard is a no go for me due to the short right shift key. Specifically, that short right shift key, coupled with the "normal" placement of the backspace key, causes me issues. (I've gone into detail about this elsewhere on this forum).
The HHKB Pro has a key layout that has proven to be near-perfect for me. Couple that with the extreme portability (size, weight, and detachable USB cable) and the acceptable keyswitches, and it simply can't be beat AFAIC.
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You rank blue cherries ahead of the buckling spring? I thought the model m was your absolute favourite? WRT HHKBP2, I don't know, for some reason it just doesn't do it for me. I don't want 200 keys, but I want to get my money's worth. Also even fewer people outside Japan have the topre, so I be more l33t than you.
Haha, so others have been checking out the Topre Realforce boards too!
Have you seen the Realforce videos on YouTube, like this one?:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xGvYXxLP5FE
Check out the comment by the guy who posted the video, section6nakumura. He says that the key feel of the Realforce is slightly different from that of the HHKB Pro. And he also says that Topre is the OEM for the HHKB Pro.
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YI thought the model m was your absolute favourite?
I've actually thought about getting rid of my Model M mini...just for the simple reason that I do not currently use it.
Although, I think I'd ultimately regret getting rid of it . . .
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You rank blue cherries ahead of the buckling spring? I thought the model m was your absolute favourite? WRT HHKBP2, I don't know, for some reason it just doesn't do it for me. I don't want 200 keys, but I want to get my money's worth. Also even fewer people outside Japan have the topre, so I be more l33t than you.
Haha, so others have been checking out the Topre Realforce boards too!
Where? What? When?! Link, please?
Have you seen the Realforce videos on YouTube, like this one?:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xGvYXxLP5FE
No, but thanks for sharing. Topre info is pretty scarce.
Check out the comment by the guy who posted the video, section6nakumura. He says that the key feel of the Realforce is slightly different from that of the HHKB Pro. And he also says that Topre is the OEM for the HHKB Pro.
I made the connection when I first stumbled on the Topre website. PFU has a very marketoid website, while Topre's website is very OEM-like (we make this, this and this). Capacitance switches seem like a recent addition to HHK, while by the look of the Topre keyboards, especially the 101-key US layout version, they've been making them for a long time. Also the diagram explaining the switch mechanism is identical on both sites.
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Capacitance switches seem like a recent addition to HHK, while by the look of the Topre keyboards, especially the 101-key US layout version, they've been making them for a long time. Also the diagram explaining the switch mechanism is identical on both sites.
I know that the HHKB Professional line has always had the capacitive switches.
The original Happy Hacking Keyboard was, in fact, membrane. (and STILL sold for around $170 at the time) :)
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Yes, but how long has the Pro line been around? I think Topre has been around for at least 10 years.
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Well, since Topre is the OEM of the HHKB Pro 2, I just scratched the Realforce off my list forever. Even if the keys feel a bit different, I would be going to a full size keyboard, which is not an idea I like, just to dump what I think is the best form factor in the industry, the HHKB. Man, the more I think about it the more I think I should just buy a second Pro 2 [ivory, nonprinted] and be done with it.
The HHKB Pro 2 might just be the best keyboard on the planet after all ...
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Well, since Topre is the OEM of the HHKB Pro 2, I just scratched the Realforce off my list forever. Even if the keys feel a bit different, I would be going to a full size keyboard, which is not an idea I like, just to dump what I think is the best form factor in the industry, the HHKB. Man, the more I think about it the more I think I should just buy a second Pro 2 [ivory, nonprinted] and be done with it.
The HHKB Pro 2 might just be the best keyboard on the planet after all ...
Actually, what I like about the Japanese layout Topre, are all the extra modifier keys at the bottom. Having just one key for the 2 strongest fingers is a waste. I hope that those kana keys are not like the Fn key on laptops, and can be seen by the computer. Also, a small space bar would probably guarantee not to be louder than the other keys.
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Having just one key for the 2 strongest fingers is a waste.
I"ve got really strong toes and ZERO keys to use with them! :)
My thumbs may be he strongest fingers on my hands...but they are also the clumsiest. Not sure I'd want to task them with anything other than the spacebar.. I'm pretty sure there is nothing that would start cramping up my hands faster than moving my thumbs around to use different keys.
But I'd love to hear how useful (or not) these types of keys are for you guys.
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I know one of them turns the spacebar into a modifier key for kanji. Honestly, I don't think Japanese keyboards work on computers unless the language is changed. Look into it or buy a cheepy to test it out first.
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I know one of them turns the spacebar into a modifier key for kanji. Honestly, I don't think Japanese keyboards work on computers unless the language is changed. Look into it or buy a cheepy to test it out first.
Good idea. In Linux and Windows I've had no difficulty remapping keys whichever way I like. OS X - not so good.
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I was talking to a dude in comments on Flickr a while back and he told me that all this about Japanese keyboards. I was thinking about buying one long ago when I was first learning to speak and read Japanese.
At least Mac let's you remap the modifier keys in System Preferences.
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Hey Whiskey, try out a piece of junk like this first, it's cheep enough to toss if it won't work for you.
http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=11992
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Good idea. In Linux and Windows I've had no difficulty remapping keys whichever way I like. OS X - not so good.
Have you tried Keyboard Maestro (http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/)???
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iMav, what fingers do you use for the command modifiers? For copy, I put my left thumb on the left command and my left index finger on the c.
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Good idea. In Linux and Windows I've had no difficulty remapping keys whichever way I like. OS X - not so good.
Have you tried Keyboard Maestro (http://www.keyboardmaestro.com/main/)???
I've heard of it. But I don't think it would let me swap backspace and caps lock, which I find very handy on all keyboards except the Cherry Cymotion, where the caps lock key is very stiff on purpose. Besides, that's $20 less to spend on keyboards.
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iMav, what fingers do you use for the command modifiers? For copy, I put my left thumb on the left command and my left index finger on the c.
Even though I curse it all the time for not being like every other OS and using Ctrl, Apple's modifier key choice for most shortcuts is superior. The meta keys next to the space bar are much more convenient. On MS ergonomic boards, these keys are especially easy to thumb.
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iMav, what fingers do you use for the command modifiers? For copy, I put my left thumb on the left command and my left index finger on the c.
I drop down a pinky or ring finger...typically the opposite hand from the other key I need to press. For example, in OS X with firefox open, I will use my left index finger on the "T" and my right ring finger on the "command" key to open up a new tab.
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So, any deals on HHKB Pro 2's?? I'm going to step up and get the 2 for the integrated USB hub (my original Pro has no hub). I'll likely buy from geekstuff4u...unless there is better deal out there.
(no used keyboard for me...so Ebay is MOSTLY out)
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So, any deals on HHKB Pro 2's??
http://benippon.com/shop/index.php?cPath=6_12
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http://benippon.com/shop/index.php?cPath=6_12
Nice. SIGNIFICANT savings over GeekStuff4U. Anyone actually order through these guys before?
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I found out about it on this board, so maybe. Don't recall who mentioned it. If you order from them, I will too.
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I found out about it on this board, so maybe. Don't recall who mentioned it. If you order from them, I will too.
Here. (http://geekhack.org/viewtopic.php?t=221) I still haven't ordered anything from them, but I've sent them an email once and got a prompt and nice reply. The feeling is ok, I think I'd order from them once I make up my mind about buying an HHKB Pro. 8)
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I've submitted my order for one white, blank-keytop HHKB Pro 2 from beNippon. I'm still awaiting my email with "instructions for payment", so we'll see.
*edit*
Payment submitted via PayPal.
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Keep us posted iMav. If this goes as it should for you I plan to give them some business as well.
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Over 24 hours after submitting payment via Paypal (WITH email receipt FROM PayPal that payment was made), the beNippon website shows my order status as "Waiting Payment". And, I have not received any payment acknowledgement from beNippon.
My hope is that they simply don't work weekends. We'll see.
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In my inbox this evening:
Your payment has been received, thank you.
We are processing to your order.
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We start to stock up the products of your order.
As soon as we will have all your products in stock we will ship your
order and announce it by email.
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Further information
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(You should read them carefully if it is your first order with
beNippon)
DELAYS & STOCK
Below somes usual delays to get products.
Days are WORKING DAYS, therefore excluding weekends and official
Japanese hollidays.
Brand new products:
- Books: 4 to 10 days
- Figures & Goodies: 2 to 7 days
- Electronics: 2 to 5 days
- Magazines: until publication of next issue if current one is
soldout
Second-hand products: 3 to 10 days
From time to time our suppliers may have no more stock for somes
products. In this case please count one more week delay.
If the product was no more available at all (soldout) we will of
course fully refund you.
------------------------------------------------------------
At any time you can check your order status online on beNippon.com,
in your account history:
http://benippon.com/shop/account_history.php
------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for choosing beNippon.
--
beNippon team
http://benippon.com/
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:)
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Well, I guess they do take weekends off. This is cool, I'm happy for you.
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Update in my inbox:
from: beNippon
date: Dec 27, 2007 5:38 AM
subject: [beNippon] Your order # XXXX : Processing (3/4)
Hello,
We are very sorry: it is taking a little more time than expected to get your keyboard ready for shipping.
We are doing our best to lower the delay, thank you for your patience.
By the way, if our supplier should not have anymore of the White version, would you accept the Black version? Or would you prefer to cancel your order?
Thank you.
Best regards,
Mathieu - beNippon
Looks like I may be getting a black version after all.
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Latest update. :)
From: beNippon
Date: Dec 28, 2007 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [beNippon] Your order # XXXX : Processing (3/4)
Hello,
Thank you for your quick reply.
Because we still have no news for the white version from our supplier, we will ship you the black (blank). We will notify you by email when it will be shipped.
Thank you for your kind understanding.
Have a nice day, and a wonderful New Year.
Best regards,
Mathieu - beNippon
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At least they keep you informed. I bet they have an abundance of the printed white models, they are ugly.
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Another update.
From: beNippon
Date: Dec 29, 2007 4:07 AM
Subject: [beNippon] Your order # XXXX : Shipped (4/4)
Your order has been shipped!
We hope it reach you in proper order and that you have been pleased with our services.
Your package should be delivered in about 1 or 2 weeks.
Good news! However, if I happen to not receive it, I'm pretty much screwed:
Please also remark that because SAL is a non-priority shipping method it is not possible to know in advance when you will receive your package.
We remind you that SAL shipments:
- Are not insured;
- Cannot be tracked via Internet;
If you still do not have received your order in one month and two weeks (on 2008-02-12) contact-us. We will inform Japan Post. However, as the package is not tracked, there is very few hopes to get an answer. Moreover, as it is not insured, if it has been lost it will
not be refund.
Please contact us about a non delivery problem only after the previous date; shipping can sometimes take quite much time.
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Just signed for my delivery from GeekStuff4u. I ordered the HHKB case from them. Here are some pics.
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-1.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-1-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-2.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-2-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-3.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-3-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-4.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-4-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-5.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-5-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-6.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-6-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-7.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-case-7-big.jpg)
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You GEEK!!
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I am so happy to see there're people outside Asia who love HHKB Pro.2
To have a different HHKB Pro.2, I tried to find someone to Buy HHKB Pro.2 with me.
Finally I got someone and we ordered one Black and one white HHKB Pro.2. When I received them, I immediatedly exchanged the key tops.
Here's the pics of my keyboard:
(Acutally I kept the black one, the other is for the man I got from the internet)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/skyianlove/HHKBPRO2/change/hhkbpull29.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/skyianlove/HHKBPRO2/change/hhkbpull30.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/skyianlove/HHKBPRO2/change/hhkbpull26.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee135/skyianlove/HHKBPRO2/change/hhkbpull28.jpg)
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I was thinking about buying a second HHKB Pro 2 and doing something like that too. Almost everyone here has a Pro or Pro 2, so you'll find lots of people with like interests.
Is that a Realforce 101 on your desk? How does that compare with the HHKB? I understand Topre manufactures the HHKB Pros for PFU, so I have been wondering.
Where do you live?
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To have a different HHKB Pro.2, I tried to find someone to Buy HHKB Pro.2 with me.
Finally I got someone and we ordered one Black and one white HHKB Pro.2. When I received them, I immediatedly exchanged the key tops.
Very cool. I currently own a HHKB Pro (1) and have a Pro 2 on order through beNippon. My Pro 1 is white with blank keytops and the Pro 2 on order is a blank, black one. Assuming the keytops are identical between the Pro 1 and Pro 2, I was considering swapping all of them...I think the contrast between the body and the keys would look quite slick.
But after seeing yours, I may place around with some different combination as well. ;)
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My new, black HHKB Pro2 from beNippon has arrived.
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-1.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-1-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-2.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-2-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-3.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-3-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-4.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-4-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-5.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-5-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-6.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-6-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-7.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-7-big.jpg)
Initially, I thought these were designed different. Turns out, that the rubber domes were just stuck to the circuit board (not with adhesive...as I found out once they started falling off.)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-9.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-9-big.jpg)
(http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-10.jpg) (http://www.uhhh.org/~lherzog/blog-images/hhkb-1-2-10-big.jpg)
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So the HHKB2 Pro uses a spring and rubber-cup for each key?
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Yeah, it's a capacitive switch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Capacitive_keyboard
It says these are common, but I only know about the Topre and this keyboard that use them. All I know is they pretty nice feeling.
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Yeah, it's a capacitive switch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_technology#Capacitive_keyboard
It says these are common, but I only know about the Topre and this keyboard that use them. All I know is they pretty nice feeling.
True, but AFAIK, the tactile feel is solely due to the spring.
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I agree, those rubber things don't look like they could provide much resistance at all.
Whiskey, do you have an HHKB Pro? How hard are they to get in AU?
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I agree, those rubber things don't look like they could provide much resistance at all.
Whiskey, do you have an HHKB Pro? How hard are they to get in AU?
About as easy as they are to get in US. :) I do want a capacitive keyboard, but I'd really prefer the numpad-less Topre, Japanese layout be damned. (I could use the extra meta keys anyway).
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I did a little research on the Japanese layouts and it looks like computers from other regions will see them as generic USB keyboards. I asked on Apple.com and Googled it, so I think you should give it a try.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1325929&tstart=0
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I was thinking about getting one of those, but it would cost me over $300 US, and I don't think it's worth that at all.
No matter, always other keyboards to buy, and soon I will be buying some more ... .
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I was thinking about getting one of those, but it would cost me over $300 US, and I don't think it's worth that at all.
No matter, always other keyboards to buy, and soon I will be buying some more ... .
The 103-key version I believe is much cheaper. So you pay less for more keys! I just really like space-saver look. This layout is practically extinct.
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they are around 170-200 for the 'board and a hundred to get over here.
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True, but AFAIK, the tactile feel is solely due to the spring.
The rubber domes don't provide ANY resistance. They look to be strictly for holding the spring in place...
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I used Japanese layout keyboards exclusively for a part of my life, and I'd warn you against taking the plunge with an expensive purchase.. there are plenty of cheapo japanese layout keyboards to find you should try it out. There are several major annoyances if you type mostly english, for example:
" is shift+2
' is shirt+ 6 or 7 i forget
The return key is a short L, and usually the backspace is the size of a single letter on a US keyboard, not the double size that you find on a standard 101 layout.
There are some other oddities likes you can type @ or * without a shift. I had a programming job for a summer in Japan, and when I got used to the layout, it actually made some programming stuff easier (especially the arithmetic syntax), but having ' be so far away was still annoying.
Oh yea, and ( and ) are offset by one.
If you plug a Japanese keyboard into a US machine, you can always get it to work. If you use Windows, and you have your keyboard in your device manager set to a US keyboard, then you'll start typing letters that don't correspond to what's labeled on the keys. This is the different layout. Interestingly, though, it's often the case that the computer will end up with the letter that would be in the same physical position as if the keyboard were a US layout (hopefully that makes sense). It means that the same physical positions usually send the same key codes, just that when you have a Japanese keyboard, you have more keys, so you can send a larger variety of keycodes, and then the OS-side has to interpret them correctly to match what is labeled on the keys.
Anyways, long story short, I found that because I use english keyboards most of the time, it was annoying to just have my personal keyboard be Japanese. Granted, that was also when I was in school, and these days I only intereact with keyboards at work and at home, but still, it wasn't worth the trouble for me. It's also why I can't use the Kinesis..
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puntium, thank you for the info, very nice. I'm afraid of using other layouts, even European ones, for some of the reasons you just said. I think I'll stick with the US layout I've used all my life.
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puntium, thank you for the info, very nice. I'm afraid of using other layouts, even European ones, for some of the reasons you just said. I think I'll stick with the US layout I've used all my life.
What, no Dvorak?
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If you plug a Japanese keyboard into a US machine, you can always get it to work. If you use Windows, and you have your keyboard in your device manager set to a US keyboard, then you'll start typing letters that don't correspond to what's labeled on the keys. This is the different layout. Interestingly, though, it's often the case that the computer will end up with the letter that would be in the same physical position as if the keyboard were a US layout (hopefully that makes sense). It means that the same physical positions usually send the same key codes, just that when you have a Japanese keyboard, you have more keys, so you can send a larger variety of keycodes, and then the OS-side has to interpret them correctly to match what is labeled on the keys.
Very interesting, thanks. So what you are saying is that no remapping of keys is required? If that's the case, I'd be fine with whatever the keys are labelled with, since I don't look at them anyway. I do prefer long backspace, enter and shift keys, but I'm not really that fussy. Keyfeel trumps all for me. BTW, I read all the keyboard reviews on your blog a while back. Very informative.
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What, no Dvorak?
Nope, I use qwerty, always have. I like it.
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Very interesting, thanks. So what you are saying is that no remapping of keys is required? If that's the case, I'd be fine with whatever the keys are labelled with, since I don't look at them anyway. I do prefer long backspace, enter and shift keys, but I'm not really that fussy. Keyfeel trumps all for me. BTW, I read all the keyboard reviews on your blog a while back. Very informative.
It depends what you mean by remapping.
In Windows, if you want to properly use a Japanese 106 keyboard (and by properly i mean that the letter that shows up on the screen matches the ltter on the keycap) then you need to configure your keyboard driver in the device manager to be the japanese 106 keyboard.
Linux has similar configuration.. you have to tell X that you want hte japanese keyboard.
If you don't care about the typed characters matching the those on the keys, then I believe that you can get away without changing the software config, though I'm not sure if _every_ key is still in the same place. My major experience was with a Sony Picturebook and an old Justy compact layout keyboard, and both had a slightly non-standard layouts because they were so small. With those, I don't remember not being able to type anything when I dropped into the Linux console where I didn't have the proper keymap set up. But it was very confusing, because I did have it setup when I was in a graphical session.
In practice, I found that the mis-configured scenario (where the os and the keyboard don't match) too confusing. As much as I type, I still never remember where some of the shifted symbols are so I always look, and then you're dead. Also, Japanese keyboards sometimes have other oddities like two keys labeled with _, which can lead to further confusion.
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Just signed for my delivery from GeekStuff4u. I ordered the HHKB case from them.
So how is this case? Would you recommend it to another person who carries around their HHKB? Do you think it offers any real protection or is it just so even the most hardcore Magic the Gathering players can rightfully call you a nerd?
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So how is this case? Would you recommend it to another person who carries around their HHKB?
I place my keyboard in the same compartment of my laptop backpack as my Griffin Elevator. I wanted something that would hold my HHKB and my USB cables as well as protect the keyboard from getting scratched by the Elevator.
This case serves those purposes quite well.
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Do you keep that HHKB in the case unless you are at work or where ever?
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Do you keep that HHKB in the case unless you are at work or where ever?
It is only in the case when I am traveling between locations. At home, my HHKB is on my keyboard tray...hooked up to my MBP. At work, it is hooked up to this crappy, work-supplied, Dell laptop.
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See, I figured you carried one HHKB and kept the other at home.
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Well I own a Black on Black HHKB Pro 2 and an older original HHKB (Model PD-KB02N)
I love the key feel of the HHKB Pro 2, and definitely like the design improvements, like the keycaps having a slight texture to them.
But I gotta say I like the keycaps on the older HHKB better! They are about half the height so their typing surface is actually a little bit bigger... I find I do not hit the wrong key as often on the older one, especially when using my pinky on the edge keys. They also have a slightly shorter travel.
I kind of wish my HHKB Pro 2 had the same smooth feeling keyswitches but with the keycaps and the slightly shorter travel that the older HHKB has.
On a side note, has anyone ever typed on one of the new HHKB Pro HG version? Does anyone know how much these sell for and if they can be imported yet?
All I can find on the net is talk about the Japan Special Edition one with the lacquered keys. with a $4,000 pricetag =O
I imagine the 'standard' HHKB Pro HG is much more reasonably priced.
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On a side note, has anyone ever typed on one of the new HHKB Pro HG version? Does anyone know how much these sell for and if they can be imported yet?
I know nothing about them. Maybe some of our members living in that area of the world can enlighten us??
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I think both the Lacquer and the HG were limited editions. PFU's japanese page says they're not being manufactured anymore.
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And wasn't the HG just a case mod? The HG Japan having the Lacquered keys. It doesn't look like the switches or anything was different.
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I kind of wish my HHKB Pro 2 had the same smooth feeling keyswitches but with the keycaps and the slightly shorter travel that the older HHKB has.
I thought the original Happy Hacking Keyboard was a membrane, what kind of switches does your's have? You should also post some pics too, I like the original logo better than the one on my Pro 2.
These keyboards just rock, don't they?
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I thought the original Happy Hacking Keyboard was a membrane, what kind of switches does your's have? You should also post some pics too, I like the original logo better than the one on my Pro 2.
These keyboards just rock, don't they?
That sentence was poorly worded on my part ...
I wish my HHKB Pro 2 had just the keycaps of the older HHKB. The keyswitches and feel of the HHKB Pro 2 is much better than on the older HHKB, with maybe the exception of the HHKB Pro 2 having a slightly longer travel.
And my older HHKB doesn't even have a logo! It is dated as being made in 2000.
I will try and get some pics of it up later, with side by side comparison of the two styles of keycaps for comparison.
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I remember almost buying an original Happy Hacking Keyboard back in 1999. I just couldn't justify the price (I didn't make a lot of money back then).
It would be cool to have it around now for comparison. But I certainly wouldn't trade my HHKB Pro for one. ;)
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It's fun to look back and remember the good old days when I was broke ... and now that I have a good paying ... but I have free time ...
Oh crap, I just realized my life sucks! *rushes from room to kill himself*.
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I've been on my Pro 2 exclusively for a while now and I went back to the SMK85 for a little retro fix and now I find the Alps a little firm for my tastes. Plus, I immediately missed the clean feel of the capacitive switches. This is weird. Another thing I missed from the HHKB was the little snap I feel from the keys. It took a few months, but the HHKB Pro 2 dethroned the SMK85 as my favorite keyboard.
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Yea, once your fingers get accustomed to the smoothness of the capacitive switches, it's hard to go back to anything else. I think if you get the chance, you should still try the brown cherries, since I think they have an equally good and light feel.
Now if only someone made an ergo keyboard with capacitive switches!
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We're such dreamers here.
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I think if you get the chance, you should still try the brown cherries, since I think they have an equally good and light feel.
That's next ...
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Does the space bar on the HHKB Pro make anyone's thumbs hurt? After a long couple days of writing, my space bar thumb just aches. Not the worst, but I was just wondering if anyone else goes through this.
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Does the space bar on the HHKB Pro make anyone's thumbs hurt? After a long couple days of writing, my space bar thumb just aches. Not the worst, but I was just wondering if anyone else goes through this.
Time to give your hand some rest. The best keyboard in the world isn't going to save you from RSI.
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Sorry to be unclear -- my hand doesn't hurt like that, it's more from the impact of my thumb on the key and always hitting it on the corner, so the discomfort is strictly external.
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Sorry to be unclear -- my hand doesn't hurt like that, it's more from the impact of my thumb on the key and always hitting it on the corner, so the discomfort is strictly external.
I have a callous on my thumb from using the space bar. (although I believe that was there before I started using the HHKB)
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Thanks for sharing ...
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I noticed that on the pro model. I have an original Happy Hacking Lite (without the arrow keys) and the Pro2.
The whole keys are curved on the pro2 so your thumb is hitting the corner of the space bar. The only solution is to use the stands so the spacebar is level... but I can't type as fast that way.
The lite1, on the other hand, isn't curved. so you can have the board lay flat on the table and your thumb hits the space bar correctly.
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good call jemkeys, I never thought of that. I used to use the legs and this started soon after I stopped using them.
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Well regarding cherry switches im only missing one model with brown ones.....
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Well regarding cherry switches im only missing one model with brown ones.....
And whites, which I think are like the blue ones but without the click. And the ML switches ...
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yea, i use the hhkb pro2 with the first level height adjustment. Never noticed a problem with my thumbs..
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yea, i use the hhkb pro2 with the first level height adjustment. Never noticed a problem with my thumbs..
I've been trying out the first level of adjustment and the discomfort has kind of disappeared, so that may be the key here.
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Im writing this on my HHKB pro 2 that arrived today, amazing keyboard indeed. I have some work in adjusting my typing though.
/Vils
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Im writing this on my HHKB pro 2 that arrived today, amazing keyboard indeed. I have some work in adjusting my typing though.
Congratulations! A great keyboard indeed. I spend a good 80% of my [typing] time on my HHKB Pro 2.
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Im part of this club now, yay
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^ Nice 3 years bump there. lol Well, I guess I'm in too then.
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I love thread necromancy.
(http://i.imgur.com/RuYUr.jpg)
I am also in this club!
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Hey, me too! Do we get a jacket or a lapel pin or something?
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that pic made me lawl
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Do we have the HHKB manuals posted somewhere ?