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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: BucklingSpring on Thu, 07 February 2013, 19:53:38
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A nice CM QFR with many "no click" keys just arrived today.
I read about MX Blue... Mine is with MX Green. 6 Keys not clicking.
It has a nice QC - PASSED sticker under.
I guess making sure the MX Blue or MX Green switches are clicking is not on their check list.
Big disappointment!
Feel free to report your QFR incident
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There is probably something going on with Cherry, they're equipment is being worn down due to the new Mechanical Boom.
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Costar, and CM has nothing to do with the switches Clicking.
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There is probably something going on with Cherry, they're equipment is being worn down due to the new Mechanical Boom.
Maybe - Now I'm starting to see a value in the Razer marketing crap about hand picking all Cherry switches that are going in their keyboards.
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Costar, and CM has nothing to do with the switches Clicking.
You'd think that, given the possibility of defective switches, they'd test them, either before or after putting them into a keyboard.
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QA for finished keyboards is likely to be "do all the switches cause the proper response on a computer" and fit and finish. Nothing more.
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Costar, and CM has nothing to do with the switches Clicking.
You'd think that, given the possibility of defective switches, they'd test them, either before or after putting them into a keyboard.
You would not be able to test this without adding a HUGE new process machinery to your production chain.. and since it has to do with sound.. The keyboard must enter an Isolated chamber... IN A FACTORY of LOUD MACHINES.....
If you want to pay $300 per keyboard, I'm sure they can get it checked for you, OR you could just RMA..
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QA for finished keyboards is likely to be "do all the switches cause the proper response on a computer" and fit and finish. Nothing more.
Done by a bunch of def kids in a very loud factory.
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If you want to pay $300 per keyboard, I'm sure they can get it checked for you, OR you could just RMA..
Indeed - I requested in my RMA to open the replacement keyboard box and verify that all the key clicks before shipping it back to me.
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QA for finished keyboards is likely to be "do all the switches cause the proper response on a computer" and fit and finish. Nothing more.
Done by a bunch of def kids in a very loud factory.
You should "at least" take a small step done off your high chair to appreciate what 3rd world children do for you. >:D
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They should collect all the non-clicky blues a make a limited edition silent blue board.
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They should collect all the non-clicky blues a make a limited edition silent blue board.
:))
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They should collect all the non-clicky blues a make a limited edition silent blue board.
:))
I also thought about that kind of joke but didn't write it. Now reading your's I'll share mine.
The guy who invented the Brown and the Clear out of defective clicky switches got a big promotion at Cherry.
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You should "at least" take a small step done off your high chair to appreciate what 3rd world children do for you. >:D
That's the scary part - Apparently they do pretty much everything.
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Couldn't resist from taking a picture of the box before returning it to its maker
:))[attachimg=1] :))
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Does anyone know what is causing the clicker to stop clicking? I want to know because I'm seriously considering silencing the click in a spare QFR to see what it would be like.
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Does anyone know what is causing the clicker to stop clicking? I want to know because I'm seriously considering silencing the click in a spare QFR to see what it would be like.
the low leaf tension. what a noob question
picture at the bottom of this thread
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39678.0
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Does anyone know what is causing the clicker to stop clicking? I want to know because I'm seriously considering silencing the click in a spare QFR to see what it would be like.
Follow the link and look at the bottom with all the animated pictures.
on the blue MX the White part moves - on the others it doesn't... I suspect that's where the click comes from...
http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/?page_id=1458 (http://www.daskeyboard.com/blog/?page_id=1458)
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There is probably something going on with Cherry, they're equipment is being worn down due to the new Mechanical Boom.
Maybe - Now I'm starting to see a value in the Razer marketing crap about hand picking all Cherry switches that are going in their keyboards.
...which is kinda BS since my BWU has a couple blues with little to no click
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Got a cm trigger with greens that have/had no clicky. Most were the same switches that also had stabilizers on them. Also had a few keys that had a muted click.
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Cooler Master claims they improved QA/QC after the huge run of defects. It's become painfully apparent that the exact opposite is true. Amazon has reported a massive spike in defective returns, including on a brand new shipment on a batch supposedly manufactured under the 'improved' QA procedures.
The only reasonable conclusion is that QA/QC has in fact, declined substantially. And it is not a small number of switches which are defective, nor are these defects that should be passing QA in any form or fashion. SIX dud switches with no tactility. The only way something like that gets past QC is if there is no functional test QC.
Which would appear to be the case given the reviews and returns going on with Amazon orders. I am beyond livid about this, because I referred and sold a fair number of QFR's when they were on sale at $55. I have been going back and forth with Amazon about this, because they're telling me their return rate is through the roof. To the extent where they are anticipating that sales will be stopped on the entire January shipment.
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my qfr with greens had one that seemed slighlty less clicky, but it doesnt effect the feel or anything.
Not worth returning or being whiney over
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the low leaf tension. what a noob question
picture at the bottom of this thread
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39678.0
What a noob drawing.
Thanks for the explanation man :)
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my qfr with greens had one that seemed slighlty less clicky, but it doesnt effect the feel or anything.
Not worth returning or being whiney over
This is bringing to my next complaint. Next to none of the switches has the same sound. I bet some one with a microphone and a sound sample for each key can tell exactly what I'm typing.
Anyway... This thing is returning to where it comes from and I just hope the vendor will do what I ask... ie Confirm before shipping that the replacement keyboard works and sounds like it is supposed to.
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my qfr with greens had one that seemed slighlty less clicky, but it doesnt effect the feel or anything.
Not worth returning or being whiney over
This is bringing to my next complaint. Next to none of the switches has the same sound. I bet some one with a microphone and a sound sample for each key can tell exactly what I'm typing.
Anyway... This thing is returning to where it comes from and I just hope the vendor will do what I ask... ie Confirm before shipping that the replacement keyboard works and sounds like it is supposed to.
Humans have ecolocation designed into our sound system.... It's actually very precise...
Ontop of that, when you press two "different switches" and attempt to "hear a difference" You mind will automatically assign separate values to what you hear.. EVEN if there was absolutely no difference.... This tagging may mislead..
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Just send that Green to me for further testing and diagnosis.
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Just send that Green to me for further testing and diagnosis.
why would he do that?? he can get it replaced through cm rma??
Are you some kinda hobo, pan handling on the internet? ;D
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Has Filco cherry mx blues ever had this problem? I haven't noticed it with mine but the DAS, and Quick Fire have lost their clicks or never had them to begin with.
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hey boys, is the QFR the right way to go if i want a TKL/60% board while staying cheap ?
cause i see here that there are still problems and stuff
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Wow man! I suddenly feel thankful that my QFR is perfect xD
But really, that sucks.
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I tossed mine out because their customer support and keyboard sucked! CM keyboards are cheap because they are made cheap. :mad:
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Has Filco cherry mx blues ever had this problem? I haven't noticed it with mine but the DAS, and Quick Fire have lost their clicks or never had them to begin with.
Yes, before mechanical keyboards were cool Diatec didn't want to sell Blue switches for this reason. However, geekhackers voted, and we pressed Diatec:) Majestouch Tenkeyless boards with Blues were introduced to the US first mid-2009, then back in Asia about half a year later. In our time carrying them, they never really were consistent about making sure the switches clicked; they commented that Cherry does not guarantee that Blue switches click, only that they actuate.
Customers demand it though, so it has to be done, but the problem is two-fold: paying for the extra testing procedure...and making sure it gets done. It's not always easy to hear the click in a buzzing factory setting...
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it should also be noted that every blue switch that actuates must be making some sort of noise, but brand new switches may make a much softer noise due to the mexican jumping bean mechanism being tighter and yielding less movement. one way to accelerate the break-in process is to take the keycaps off offending switches and actuating them forcefully with a finger repeatedly for a few minutes.
basically, as long as a blue or green switch actuates, it will eventually make noise, but it may need to be broken in before it makes a maximal or "normal" amount of noise for that switch type.
the entire top row being dead though is almost certainly just a bad pcb and should be RMAd
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it should also be noted that every blue switch that actuates must be making some sort of noise, but brand new switches may make a much softer noise due to the mexican jumping bean mechanism being tighter and yielding less movement. one way to accelerate the break-in process is to take the keycaps off offending switches and actuating them forcefully with a finger repeatedly for a few minutes.
basically, as long as a blue or green switch actuates, it will eventually make noise, but it may need to be broken in before it makes a maximal or "normal" amount of noise for that switch type.
Actually, mkawa, this is absolutely false. There's multiple failure modes for the MX Blue switch, and the fact is that you can have a blue that makes absolutely no noise. Yes, a broken MX Blue can in fact fail into operating identically to a linear switch. I had two keys on the first faulty QFR that were literally "thud" keys - straight up MX Black operation. No click at all, no bump, no nothing. Just thud. And they registered. I have the same going on with this keyboard as well, but slightly different - zero noise, but bump present.
So no, an MX Blue is not guaranteed to make some sort of noise. A properly working MX Blue will, yes. But they will fail in fashions that result in the switch being pretty much identical to an MX Black in feel. New MX Black, not old MX Black - though the one was far closer to Red. Far, far too light.
But as I said; what's concerning to me is the fact that this appears to be a genuinely new problem. Previous batches simply did not have the problem on anywhere near this scale. Sure, a tiny handful of keyboards slipped through with non-clicking switches as a result of being missed in QC or having debris enter post-QC. These things do happen in manufacturing, even when you're watching like a hawk. (And believe me, it can really suck when they do.)
I also can't imagine that Costar and Cooler Master haven't demanded Cherry perform preliminary QC 'click' tests on the switches. Let's do an exercise! CM Storm QFR is 87 keys times 1000 units times 5 switch models is 435,000 switches a batch. (Well okay, maybe it's 200 Greens. But you get the idea.) Plus QFR TK at 94 keys times 1000 units times 4 switch models is another 376,000. In other words, we're talking about a customer that's doing well over $1.2M in business a quarter. Especially on the Greens, since they negotiated an exclusivity deal. That's enough business to force Cherry / ZF Electronics to do that.
That doesn't mean switches won't arrive defective - shipping damage, packing debris, small percentage being missed in QC, and so on. But it greatly reduces the number. And click testing of the switch is something that can definitely be automated as part of manufacturing. No click switches have different tactility than clicking switches.
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Response from the vendor
"Hello BucklingSpring,
We received a return request from you regarding the Order # -----------, as you mentioned Many keys not clicking when pressed F6-F9-I-V-T-M that mean those keys are not working at all? We will advise you to contact manufacturer support at: 1-888-624-5099 and if they says unit is defective simply obtain a case number so that we can replace the unit for you quickly. Thank you
"
ARGH!!!! My Reply
Oh you are not making me happy with this "call the manufacturer" response... I don't need Cooler Master to tell if my Keyboard is wrong... Speaking Of Cooler Master. I just called them too... They don't have a ticketing System and they don't provide Case Number... So you really made me waste my time on this one.
Jeremy at Cooler Master said ... Give them 1234.... By the way, his extension is 142 at 1-888-624-5099
But I got an even better reference for you. I went to Cherry Corp directly. The manufacturer who is making the switches Cooler Master is using in their keyboards.
Feel free to read below what Cherry Corp has to say about non clicky switches.
My spanking new keyboard has either defective or worn out switches...
Pick the one you like... Please send me the RMA information.
Regards,
From: <Keyboard.Support@zf.com>
To: [me], <Cathy.Bergin@zf.com>
Subject: RE: Non clicking MX Green or MX Blue
Date sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:12:35 +0000
> Hi,
>
> It could be defective but it could also be worn out.
>
>
> Kind Regards/Mit freundlichem Gruss,
> Ed Ferraton
> Cherry Senior CID Technical Services Specialist
> ZF Electronic Systems Pleasant Prairie, LLC
> 11200 88th Avenue, Pleasant Prairie/ WI 53158 / USA
> Phone/Telefon +1 262-942-6393, Fax/Telefax +1 262-942-6566
> ed.ferraton@zf.com
> www.CHERRYcorp.com
> Manufacturer of CHERRY products
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Me
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 8:41 PM
> To: Keyboard Support; Bergin Cathy PPR ZFE
> Subject: Non clicking MX Green or MX Blue
>
> Hi there,
>
> Do you consider a non clicky MX Green or MX Blue switch as
> defective?
>
> Thank you,
>
Subject: RE: Non clicking MX Green or MX Blue
Date sent: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 14:12:35 +0000
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Hi everyone,
If you are experiencing an issue, please PM me. I will have your claim expedited and we will have our CSR team personally test your keyboard before shipping it back to you.
Contrary to belief, we have sold an very high number of QFRs in recent weeks and the defective rate is still very low, but we don't want these few bad experiences to de-value our brand. We really love this community and don't want you guys to feel jaded to our product.
Thanks a lot and sorry for any inconvenience - we are looking into every avenue on how to avoid these problems and will provide updates as they come!
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(...) Actually, mkawa, this is absolutely false. (...)
Very nice post (the whole thing) ... Thank you for sharing.
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one way to accelerate the break-in process is to take the keycaps off offending switches and actuating them forcefully with a finger repeatedly for a few minutes.
Although maybe not true... It doesn't cost much to try this.
EDIT: I got two things out of this experiment -
A big blister on the finger tip ;D
And a switch that is starting to click! :eek:
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Hi everyone,
If you are experiencing an issue, please PM me. I will have your claim expedited and we will have our CSR team personally test your keyboard before shipping it back to you.
Contrary to belief, we have sold an very high number of QFRs in recent weeks and the defective rate is still very low, but we don't want these few bad experiences to de-value our brand. We really love this community and don't want you guys to feel jaded to our product.
Thanks a lot and sorry for any inconvenience - we are looking into every avenue on how to avoid these problems and will provide updates as they come!
Well that makes me feel better. Really - Thank you for your live feedback.
When I asked Jeremy (he was very nice btw) if the replacement keyboard can be manually tested before shipping. He explained to me how difficult that could be.
So I'm PMing you right now!
Thank you for monitoring GH ;-)
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They should collect all the non-clicky blues a make a limited edition silent blue board.
Yeah, this could be a new linear switch: Cherry MX Silent Blues! ;D
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There are a few reason for clicky switch to not be clicking, soft leaf, burr on stem catching the click mechanism. The more of something mass produced the defect rate increases. There is not a higher rate of defects per se, but a higher percentage of those that will receive a defect due to increased amount. It's not much to be alarmed with. Also you can't blame a keyboard assembler using 3rd party switch to be responsible for that component exactly. Can happen just the same with any other brand but Cherry themselves who you can blame since they are first party in that case.
I like blues, greens and whites quite a lot, but I also admit that in a technical sense they are most prone to failure and odd behavior of all the MX variants due to the extra piece introduced into the switch mechanism. More parts, higher failure chance.
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i had a filco with mostly unclicky keys. i now have a qfr with greens. most are unclicky. bought from a user on here. i didn't say anything to him because i figure at this point properly functioning clicking cherry switches dont exist.
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Hi everyone,
If you are experiencing an issue, please PM me. I will have your claim expedited and we will have our CSR team personally test your keyboard before shipping it back to you.
Contrary to belief, we have sold an very high number of QFRs in recent weeks and the defective rate is still very low, but we don't want these few bad experiences to de-value our brand. We really love this community and don't want you guys to feel jaded to our product.
Thanks a lot and sorry for any inconvenience - we are looking into every avenue on how to avoid these problems and will provide updates as they come!
Thanks, Rajiv. I know there's been a high number of sales. I poked Amazon with my "I sell a lot of stuff" stick the other day, so they should hopefully be in touch with your folks shortly. They're consistently telling me that they're observing a very very high return rate on their current shipment (delivered around January 30) and I know of 5 returns + 8 exchanges directly - though not the exact reasons. So there's definitely something off specific to there.
Is it possible that Amazon managed to get one of the defect batches from the Nov-Dec timeframe, and that's what's going on there? I can't imagine it's a handling/shipping issue; all of mine have arrived in retail box and well packed as usual.
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i had a filco with mostly unclicky keys. i now have a qfr with greens. most are unclicky. bought from a user on here. i didn't say anything to him because i figure at this point properly functioning clicking cherry switches dont exist.
That's funny.
I tawt I taw a Clicky Green creepin' up on me
I did! I taw a Clicky Green as plain as it could be!
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i had a filco with mostly unclicky keys. i now have a qfr with greens. most are unclicky. bought from a user on here. i didn't say anything to him because i figure at this point properly functioning clicking cherry switches dont exist.
That's funny.
I tawt I taw a Clicky Green creepin' up on me
I did! I taw a Clicky Green as plain as it could be!
i don't know what this is supposed to mean
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Tweetie bird!
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Blues/greens won't click for a few reasons, as many have stated. While investigating what makes white switches different, I did some experiments with blues (swapping sliders with whites and so forth).
The tactility comes from the slider being flung down the stem faster than the stem is coming down into the switch body. The click comes when the tab on the stem hits the end of the groove on the slider. Whites are different partly because Cherry puts a very small dab of grease into this groove, dampening its movement and reducing the sound of the click. The amount of grease required is very touchy and the consistency is not great. TP4's claim that the problem is the leaf spring may or may not be correct. However it makes sense that increasing the tension improves a balky switch, as it will push the slider down harder once it starts moving.
If a blue/green feels linear, it's likely because the slider is seized to the stem or hardly moving at all. If it's a new switch it is a defect. Probably a burr or something. If it's an old switch, it is most often caused by debris getting in there and jamming the little tabs that guide the slider. That's where the compressed air trick comes from.
If the switch is tactile but not clicky, it's because the slider it not making it to the end of it's movement. Stopping just short completely silences the click. Slowing down before the end muffles it. It's actually quite delicate and I am not surprised at all that the quality is all over the place. Again, a new switch exhibiting this is probably a manufacturing defect or contamination during assembly. An old switch is likely foreign debris/dust.
You can blame CM for not catching it, the real defect is likely coming from Cherry.
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Blues/greens won't click for a few reasons, as many have stated. While investigating what makes white switches different, I did some experiments with blues (swapping sliders with whites and so forth).
The tactility comes from the slider being flung down the stem faster than the stem is coming down into the switch body. The click comes when the tab on the stem hits the end of the groove on the slider. Whites are different partly because Cherry puts a very small dab of grease into this groove, dampening its movement and reducing the sound of the click. The amount of grease required is very touchy and the consistency is not great. TP4's claim that the problem is the leaf spring may or may not be correct. However it makes sense that increasing the tension improves a balky switch, as it will push the slider down harder once it starts moving.
If a blue/green feels linear, it's likely because the slider is seized to the stem or hardly moving at all. If it's a new switch it is a defect. Probably a burr or something. If it's an old switch, it is most often caused by debris getting in there and jamming the little tabs that guide the slider. That's where the compressed air trick comes from.
If the switch is tactile but not clicky, it's because the slider it not making it to the end of it's movement. Stopping just short completely silences the click. Slowing down before the end muffles it. It's actually quite delicate and I am not surprised at all that the quality is all over the place. Again, a new switch exhibiting this is probably a manufacturing defect or contamination during assembly. An old switch is likely foreign debris/dust.
You can blame CM for not catching it, the real defect is likely coming from Cherry.
The human race has developed nano circuitry. Mechanical switches are not too complicated to perfect.
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The human race has developed nano circuitry. Mechanical switches are not too complicated to perfect.
When I told my parents I developed carpal tunnel syndrome. My dad said he always knew I was going to be a scientist.
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The human race has developed nano circuitry. Mechanical switches are not too complicated to perfect.
Indeed...but this isn't the space program. :) It's a plastic switch made by the millions as efficiently as possible.
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The human race has developed nano circuitry. Mechanical switches are not too complicated to perfect.
Indeed...but this isn't the space program. :) It's a plastic switch made by the millions as efficiently as possible.
that's where you're wrong
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The human race has developed nano circuitry. Mechanical switches are not too complicated to perfect.
Indeed...but this isn't the space program. :) It's a plastic switch made by the millions as efficiently as possible.
that's where you're wrong
YEP.
Well, except they were Alps Complicated Whites, but who's really counting? (http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/accession/102642009)
... oh right. WE are. (http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=64&lot=1527&lang=1)
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QFR w/ Greens - 2 non-clicky switches
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I just got a third replacement QFR w/Blues today. And it is mostly free of defects.
Same supplier shipment. Same batch going by serial numbers. Looks and feels like a completely and totally different keyboard. Every key clicks as it should, no squealing, no electrical problems so far. Still has that obnoxious Crapstar stabilizer walk and rattle, especially pronounced on RShift, and the typical spacebar squeak (gotta find my lithium grease,) but that's what you get with cheaping out on stabilizers. Seriously guys, I will buy a pallet of QuickFire XTs if you use Cherry stabilizers. They are so much better.
But it really feels like a completely different keyboard, side by side with the 2 defective switch one. Keycaps feel different, bottoming out feels different, the works. I honestly cannot explain it, because the serial numbers are very close. Yet these feel like they were made on two entirely different lines. The good keyboard feels more stable despite neither having any flex. The LEDs look slightly different as well - dimmer on the good one. Not that I'm complaining about it - non-blinding is good - but it's pretty dang confusing.
The bottom of the chassis also had a bit of scuffing out of the box, but the top shell has no such issues. There's some waviness on the upper edge where the two halves of the shell meet, but it's less than half a millimeter. Honestly would go unnoticed except I stuck it right up against a straight edge for machining (basically, highly accurate) and the contrast made it visible. Certainly no complaints about that, but may want to keep an eye out. Not sure what could have caused it.
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I'm doing a survey on MX Blue and MX Green
Click(*) here -> :p<- to answer the poll (http://poll.pollcode.com/rmor8l)
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can u do an audio recording of the no click?
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can u do an audio recording of the no click?
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can u do an audio recording of the no click?
keys that don't click dont have a consistent sound. some have a loose sounding or muffled click, others sound sortof like browns.
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They should collect all the non-clicky blues a make a limited edition silent blue board.
Yeah, this could be a new linear switch: Cherry MX Silent Blues! ;D
Yes, Cherry MX Silent Blues (they just paint them BROWN)! :))
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When a couple of my MX blues do not click, I imaging it is almost like reds, but with a bump. They do seem to be improving over time i.e. the click is becoming slightly more consistent.
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the thing that bothers me about the non clicky keys is that they do infact feel better.
i did a deaf test on 2 people and they could feel a difference. i had them wear earplugs and feel two keys, 1 with and 1 without click.
the clicky ones have a sharpness to the beginning of the press that goes away when they dont click.
had it only been a sound related problem i wouldnt care at all.
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the thing that bothers me about the non clicky keys is that they do infact feel better.
i did a deaf test on 2 people and they could feel a difference. i had them wear earplugs and feel two keys, 1 with and 1 without click.
the clicky ones have a sharpness to the beginning of the press that goes away when they dont click.
had it only been a sound related problem i wouldnt care at all.
Do they feel better than normal tactile non clicky switches (Brown, Clear, etc...)?
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Mr.Green Part II Rated G
Part one was showing a nipple and offended some viewers. So I made a Rated G sequel with no naked parts exposed. Joke aside, apparently part one was misleading due to trivial sound physics. It was like taking the body out of a guitar (the body provides the resonance that shapes the tonal qualities of the instrument). Someone could probably win a case in court with a solid argument like that. So enjoy this new unbiased video and try to figure which keys are not clicking.
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the thing that bothers me about the non clicky keys is that they do infact feel better.
i did a deaf test on 2 people and they could feel a difference. i had them wear earplugs and feel two keys, 1 with and 1 without click.
the clicky ones have a sharpness to the beginning of the press that goes away when they dont click.
had it only been a sound related problem i wouldnt care at all.
Do they feel better than normal tactile non clicky switches (Brown, Clear, etc...)?
no not really. they feel mushier
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the thing that bothers me about the non clicky keys is that they do infact feel better.
i did a deaf test on 2 people and they could feel a difference. i had them wear earplugs and feel two keys, 1 with and 1 without click.
the clicky ones have a sharpness to the beginning of the press that goes away when they dont click.
had it only been a sound related problem i wouldnt care at all.
Do they feel better than normal tactile non clicky switches (Brown, Clear, etc...)?
no not really. they feel mushier
Ayup.. that's why I call 'em thud keys. If the slider isn't moving at all, the MX Blue is lighter than an MX Red. Hence why I call them thud keys. It is impossible to not bottom them out because they just fall straight down as hard as they can.
I'm going to give it another day or two at least, but it looks like I got another defective board - which would be unbelievable if this isn't one that should have passed QA. Sure, every single key clicks, no problems there. The problem is that keys are STICKING. Literally stuck in the half-on position, and not unsticking even remotely easily. I'm doubtful any sort of wear-in is going to help, because it feels like a slider lubrication issue, but we'll see.
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the thing that bothers me about the non clicky keys is that they do infact feel better.
i did a deaf test on 2 people and they could feel a difference. i had them wear earplugs and feel two keys, 1 with and 1 without click.
the clicky ones have a sharpness to the beginning of the press that goes away when they dont click.
had it only been a sound related problem i wouldnt care at all.
Do they feel better than normal tactile non clicky switches (Brown, Clear, etc...)?
no not really. they feel mushier
Ayup.. that's why I call 'em thud keys. If the slider isn't moving at all, the MX Blue is lighter than an MX Red. Hence why I call them thud keys. It is impossible to not bottom them out because they just fall straight down as hard as they can.
I'm going to give it another day or two at least, but it looks like I got another defective board - which would be unbelievable if this isn't one that should have passed QA. Sure, every single key clicks, no problems there. The problem is that keys are STICKING. Literally stuck in the half-on position, and not unsticking even remotely easily. I'm doubtful any sort of wear-in is going to help, because it feels like a slider lubrication issue, but we'll see.
you have super bad luck... LOL... even with squared failure rates.. you land jackpot ;D
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I went to test my less-clicky switches this morning, and both are clicking happily. Sigh.
The click does sound muted though, more like a clack than a click. Sometimes it sounds like a little tick just before the click, almost like a click before the activation point (kinda like my NEC switches). But the activation force increases just as it should, and the switch activates thereafter.
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I went to test my less-clicky switches this morning, and both are clicking happily. Sigh.
The click does sound muted though, more like a clack than a click. Sometimes it sounds like a little tick just before the click, almost like a click before the activation point (kinda like my NEC switches). But the activation force increases just as it should, and the switch activates thereafter.
OK, I drew this in paint, but, you get the idea... Make the fins out of soft FELT,, attach to variable speed Power drill... And apply to affected key... They should start clicking in no time.
NO making fun of my ART please... :D
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NO making fun of my ART please... :D
No making un of your ART
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So, quick update on my troubles with the QFR... so far, #3 seems well behaved. C and Tab aren't sticking after some break-in. I'm still hating the Costar stabilizers, to be quite honest. They're still flimsy, wobbly, and prone to rattle. Shift is particularly obnoxious. Clicks but all you feel is the crappy stabilizer. And RShift, all you feel is the properly lubricated slider walking around and hitching constantly. Worse than that, they feel and sound incredibly cheap and flimsy - because they are.
It is a horrible, unforgivable design decision - especially with the sort of margins going on here. Cherry stabilizers do not cost that much more, and they are a vastly superior part. They feel better, they move better, they sound better. Wire stabilizers are garbage on Cherry MX, have always been garbage, and will always be garbage. Unless the QuickFire XT has Cherry stabilizers, I suspect I'll go find something that does. Because they really are that godawful and cheap.
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I've never tried a Cherry stabilizer so I don't know if I would like them or not but reading about the difference between Costar and Cherry at GH and a few other places, I have no doubt CM made the right choice with Costar stabilizers. They are far more popular and liked than Cherry.
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You are one, sad puppy. Indeed, Costar stabs can be a bit more rattly than the Cherry unless they are lubed. Some people prefer them anyway. You obviously don't. We get it. My model M stabs rattled too until I lubed them.
Cherry stabs are not unicorns and ponies, either. My Leo had a squeaky left shift that would bind until I lubed a bit and the right shift on my first Poker buzzed (annoying when being used as up-arrow).
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You are one, sad puppy. Indeed, Costar stabs can be a bit more rattly than the Cherry unless they are lubed. Some people prefer them anyway. You obviously don't. We get it. My model M stabs rattled too until I lubed them.
Cherry stabs are not unicorns and ponies, either. My Leo had a squeaky left shift that would bind until I lubed a bit and the right shift on my first Poker buzzed (annoying when being used as up-arrow).
No, they aren't. But they don't walk. It's physically impossible for a Cherry stabilizer to walk. And they're not "a bit more" rattly - it's a cacophony. This is after being lubed with high density white lithium grease, no less. That's what bothers me - it sounds and feels cheap when heavily greased stabilizers still walk and rattle. It detracts incredibly from what is otherwise a very solidly constructed and well made keyboard, and that really bothers me. Even non-computer people have commented that it looks amazing, but "sounds cheap." Especially when compared to a Cherry stabilized board.
It's also worth pointing out this is pretty much exactly why the only wire-stabilized key on a Model M is the spacebar. It's an inherent flaw of wire stabilization method, no exceptions. The cap will walk. That's why the rest of the keys are barrel slider stabilized - the only way to stop walk is with X axis anchoring. Costar's design has zero X anchoring, whereas Cherry stabilizers inherently anchor X in all four directions. Costar-style only stabilizes Y axis movement; there's no X anchoring, which also puts additional strain on the switch stem over time since it's being forced to do all X anchoring. Not a big deal with a Model M because of that big round barrel - huge problem long term with a little plastic X.
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You have definitely had a hard time with you QFR experience, so I can understand your frustration.
The side-to-side clearances of the Cherry stab are quite massive compared to the switch stem, so I don't really buy the "walking" theory. The Poker to my left has just as much side-to-side movement on the big keys as the Noppo on my right. There is no practical difference between the two (except of the slight difference in feel...the reason people have a preference).
I did find your reasoning for the stabilizer changes on the Model M to be somewhat creative, however. It is pretty obvious that the change was done for cost reasons. Those little wires are fiddly and complicate assembly.
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You have definitely had a hard time with you QFR experience, so I can understand your frustration.
The side-to-side clearances of the Cherry stab are quite massive compared to the switch stem, so I don't really buy the "walking" theory. The Poker to my left has just as much side-to-side movement on the big keys as the Noppo on my right. There is no practical difference between the two (except of the slight difference in feel...the reason people have a preference).
That's interesting, did Cherry make a change then? Because I tell you what; the walk on a Wyse PCET is absolutely zero, excepting the spacebar. Now that may be in part because the main stem (key switch) is a very heavy black, but shouldn't have that much effect. But the reason there's no walk is because the stabilizers are basically the same as the keyswitches - so they anchor all 4 X-axis directions. The spacebar has some walk just due to the size. But the shift/backspace/numpad enter have no walk at all. The walk on the spacebar is from the size and weight being able to pull up the stabilizers.
And when I say walk, I mean 'lateral and horizontal movement of the key' rather than wobble, which is uneven vertical movement. Two very different things. Wire stabilizers will always wobble, without exception, and Cherry can be prone to it depending on the setup. All Costar stabilizers are prone to walk though, typically along the left-right axis. (This ain't my first Costar rodeo; I've got a CST-104, same problem.)
Cherry must have made a change though, because the PCET also has no wobble except on spacebar. The trick with wobble is sufficient and equal springing at all points - active damping. Wire is strictly passive, meaning it will pretty much always be prone to wobble because it's difficult to equalize force on both sides. (Don't believe me? Press at the extreme left of RShift on a QFR, and you'll feel the lean.
Like I said; on stuff like this, the details really do matter. People can pretend all they like. Eliminating the wobble and reducing stabilizer feel (which overwhelms the switch itself by far) would make everyone shout from the rooftops that the QFR is the best keyboard ever made. Just that one little detail. One which honestly seems fairly easy to address.
I did find your reasoning for the stabilizer changes on the Model M to be somewhat creative, however. It is pretty obvious that the change was done for cost reasons. Those little wires are fiddly and complicate assembly.
Oh, there's that too. Plus the barrel stabilizing means multiple layouts do not require a unique part per layout. But if it was purely cost reasons, then they would have barrel stabilized the space bar as well OR wire stabilized other keys. It's certainly possible and doable. But they didn't - they kept the fiddly, difficult to assemble, and relatively easy to break wire stabilizer on the spacebar. Which is also harder to manufacture as opposed to throwing a barrel plug in. It's also cheaper than a barrel plug, since those require fairly close tolerances meaning fairly frequent mold maintenance.
But also bear in mind that IBM has always been about not "feeling cheap." Go look at a PC-XT, PC-AT, PS/2.. IBM didn't use the cheapest parts possible there either. They didn't use the big red power switch because it was cheap or economical; they used it because it was solid and gives that satisfying "CLACK" when you turn it on and off. They never want to even seem slightly cheap, so they won't hesitate to go overkill in some areas, and they tend to pay very close attention to the details, right down to the colorfastness of the plastic for card carriers. (Software is another issue entirely.)
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Ok here's a quick update
http://www.computervalley.ca (http://www.computervalley.ca) Avoid these guys at all costs. Horrible Customer Support!
Reaching Cooler Master directly - Thanks to Rajiv and Jeremy, I've been taking care of.
The Service was as good as it gets.
Stay tuned for final update when I receive the replacement board.
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Good luck! it is great having CM reps lurking around here.
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And when I say walk, I mean 'lateral and horizontal movement of the key' rather than wobble, which is uneven vertical movement. Two very different things. Wire stabilizers will always wobble, without exception, and Cherry can be prone to it depending on the setup. All Costar stabilizers are prone to walk though, typically along the left-right axis. (This ain't my first Costar rodeo; I've got a CST-104, same problem.)
Cherry must have made a change though, because the PCET also has no wobble except on spacebar. The trick with wobble is sufficient and equal springing at all points - active damping. Wire is strictly passive, meaning it will pretty much always be prone to wobble because it's difficult to equalize force on both sides. (Don't believe me? Press at the extreme left of RShift on a QFR, and you'll feel the lean.
Yup they do lean. So does my Poker. Now that I am home, I just looked at my Cherry G80-1800 and it is similar. A bit less lean, though. The lean is mainly a function of the play between the wire and the mounts that are attached to either end of the key. One thing I have noticed between the various Cherry stabs I have seen on both new and vintage keyboard: the thickness of the wire varies. My Poker has an aluminum case with sides that don't go up as far as the stock case does. This give a beautiful view of the Cherry stab in action on the space bar. Indeed, the lean comes from the play between the wire and the cantilever on the mount.
I think there is a reason that the stabilizers need a lot of extra clearance: tolerances. I noticed this when I put my Phantom together. The Costar stabilizer guides were a very tight fit on the plate. A lot of force is needed to get them to fully seat. If the center line of the two guides are not perfectly in line with the key switch or the switch is ever-so-slightly rotated, the key will bind. I started looking at other keyboards and noticed that they are not always perfect. I would say that both types of stabs are designed not to actively guide the key cap down to prevent binding. Perhaps the enclosed nature of the Cherry stabilizer is part of what makes them seem more heavy than the more-open (and cheaper) Costar design.
Like I said; on stuff like this, the details really do matter. People can pretend all they like. Eliminating the wobble and reducing stabilizer feel (which overwhelms the switch itself by far) would make everyone shout from the rooftops that the QFR is the best keyboard ever made. Just that one little detail. One which honestly seems fairly easy to address.
Well, like all hobbies... obsessing over the details is what makes it fun. :)
Oh, there's that too. Plus the barrel stabilizing means multiple layouts do not require a unique part per layout. But if it was purely cost reasons, then they would have barrel stabilized the space bar as well OR wire stabilized other keys. It's certainly possible and doable. But they didn't - they kept the fiddly, difficult to assemble, and relatively easy to break wire stabilizer on the spacebar. Which is also harder to manufacture as opposed to throwing a barrel plug in. It's also cheaper than a barrel plug, since those require fairly close tolerances meaning fairly frequent mold maintenance.
If you have ever pressed on the rightmost edge of the right shift key, you'll know why a barrel-mount stabilizer would not work for the space bar. When I do that on my Model F, it has no issues at all. :)
But also bear in mind that IBM has always been about not "feeling cheap." Go look at a PC-XT, PC-AT, PS/2.. IBM didn't use the cheapest parts possible there either. They didn't use the big red power switch because it was cheap or economical; they used it because it was solid and gives that satisfying "CLACK" when you turn it on and off. They never want to even seem slightly cheap, so they won't hesitate to go overkill in some areas, and they tend to pay very close attention to the details, right down to the colorfastness of the plastic for card carriers. (Software is another issue entirely.)
It's pretty well-accepted that the Model M was an economized Model F. The Model F is a superior mechanism in just about every way. However it is complicated and expensive. They took the Model F design and simplified it as much as they could without losing the important aspects. They continued to do this over the course of the Model M's existence (thinner back plates, simplified stabilizers, non-detectable cable, etc). By normal keyboard standards, the Model M was still leagues above any other keyboard and the barrel-stabilized keys work just fine (who uses that edge of the r-shift anyway?).
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hey boys, is the QFR the right way to go if i want a TKL/60% board while staying cheap ?
cause i see here that there are still problems and stuff
BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
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BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
UPDATE - CM took good care of me. I got my RMA Label today. The not so clicky green is heading home.
I will write back a final update using the replacement unit when it arrives.
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BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
UPDATE - CM took good care of me. I got my RMA Label today. The not so clicky green is heading home.
I will write back a final update using the replacement unit when it arrives.
that's bull****. i'm never buying a filco again unless it's secondhand. i bought one with blues virtually none of them clicked and they wouldnt do anything for me.
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BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
UPDATE - CM took good care of me. I got my RMA Label today. The not so clicky green is heading home.
I will write back a final update using the replacement unit when it arrives.
that's bull****. i'm never buying a filco again unless it's secondhand. i bought one with blues virtually none of them clicked and they wouldnt do anything for me.
So it's BS...but in a good way for Mr. Spring. :) Props to CM for making it right.
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BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
UPDATE - CM took good care of me. I got my RMA Label today. The not so clicky green is heading home.
I will write back a final update using the replacement unit when it arrives.
that's bull****. i'm never buying a filco again unless it's secondhand. i bought one with blues virtually none of them clicked and they wouldnt do anything for me.
So it's BS...but in a good way for Mr. Spring. :) Props to CM for making it right.
indeed it is. all it means to me is that i'm going to support CM and not Diatec
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BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
UPDATE - CM took good care of me. I got my RMA Label today. The not so clicky green is heading home.
I will write back a final update using the replacement unit when it arrives.
that's bull****. i'm never buying a filco again unless it's secondhand. i bought one with blues virtually none of them clicked and they wouldnt do anything for me.
So it's BS...but in a good way for Mr. Spring. :) Props to CM for making it right.
indeed it is. all it means to me is that i'm going to support CM and not Diatec
Yea screw diatec... ripping people off with their $150 non-clicking mx blue keyboards ;D
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BucklingSpring has been taken care of from my knowledge, I hope they can update this thread accordingly :)
You should be fine with any QFR board, and I am here to help support you in any way I can.
UPDATE - CM took good care of me. I got my RMA Label today. The not so clicky green is heading home.
I will write back a final update using the replacement unit when it arrives.
that's bull****. i'm never buying a filco again unless it's secondhand. i bought one with blues virtually none of them clicked and they wouldnt do anything for me.
So it's BS...but in a good way for Mr. Spring. :) Props to CM for making it right.
indeed it is. all it means to me is that i'm going to support CM and not Diatec
Yea screw diatec... ripping people off with their $150 non-clicking mx blue keyboards ;D
Hey - Easy on diatec! They make good boards
But the thing Diatec is doing best is selling Matias keyboards in asia :-)
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I got so p!ssed at Cherry for pushing non clicky switches that I went back to rubber dome for a while...
LoL - found another reason to say that I'm currently typing on a Unicomp Ultra-Classic featuring the Quiet Touch technology.
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I got so p!ssed at Cherry for pushing non clicky switches that I went back to rubber dome for a while...
LoL - found another reason to say that I'm currently typing on a Unicomp Ultra-Classic featuring the Quiet Touch technology.
I can't believe you paid $100 for that...
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I got so p!ssed at Cherry for pushing non clicky switches that I went back to rubber dome for a while...
LoL - found another reason to say that I'm currently typing on a Unicomp Ultra-Classic featuring the Quiet Touch technology.
I can't believe you paid $100 for that...
You're right - I lied - 79$ + $40 shipping + 10$ fedex (shove it up you're customs) + 13$ taxes
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Got my QFR w/ blues today from Amazon and it works perfectly.
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Got my QFR w/ blues today from Amazon and it works perfectly.
well then you can go to hell
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i picked up a grey non branded QFR yesterday at micro center /w blues. The issue i have is with the"I" key. It clicks on the left side but not the right. i mashed the key on the right side a couple hundred times and now i get a click if i put more weight on the top right but not so much on the bottom right. it seems to be getting better.
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Update a month later.
In Feb, after some back and forth with CM, I finally got a RMA Label with a pre-paid courrier label.
I had to beg to get it pre-paid. Normal CM customers has to pay for shipping back defective goods. (Cheap)
The courier was snail mail. It took over 10 days to reach CM (Cheap)
Btw - The help-desk at CM has no ticketing system. (Cheap)
20 days later, still no response, so I asked the RMA dept what was going on.
few days later - 3 emails to RMA without response, I sent a PM to Rajiv here.
I'm told CM is out of stock and they don't keep any units for RMA's. (Cheap)
As an unusual token of generosity - I was offered a mouse and a pad. (Cheap)
I found such offer more offensive than nothing at all. So I asked for a little more (Sirus 5.1 SGH-6000-KK5R1 to be precise)
Then I got a call from the RMA dept. Sorry dude no QFR in sight. They offered to "upgrade" my QFR with a backlit Trigger.
Meh. Not interested in that Trigger, but it's that or wait two more months for the next shipment.
I wrote back to Rajiv, let them RMA folks send that stupid Trigger so I get something to chew on and send that SGH-6000 and the QFR with green if you ever get them.
Rajiv response was with a lesser SGH-4000, no Trigger and the QFR when ever they get them... Apparently it took a special approval from upper management to get that goodies out of their stock. This offer also came with a big disclaimer "this is not how we do business". I was also told that I was trying to take advantage of the situation and it was not nice. Once again "cheap" came to my mind and I told myself - Screw this. Keep your headset, it will make me feel better to share this horror story on the forum.
Overall experience with Cooler Master Customer Support - Slow and cheap.
Rajiv is a nice guy, but they keep him on a short leach with next to no room to do good.
Cooler Master keyboards - cheaper to buy for a reason. They save money on customer service.
I'll post an update if I ever get that QFR with green. Man this thing better click when it arrives.
Feels good to vent thought.
Ok here's a quick update
http://www.computervalley.ca Avoid these guys at all costs. Horrible Customer Support!
Reaching Cooler Master directly - Thanks to Rajiv and Jeremy, I've been taking care of.
The Service was as good as it gets.
Stay tuned for final update when I receive the replacement board.
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Youre a just a customer services rep worst nightmare. Impossible to please. nitpicks absolutely everything.
If youre that displeased with some green switches not being perfectly clicky, dont buy them again.
calling them cheap and **** is just being a flat out whiner. I would take a **** on the keyboard and send it back to you. Enjoy.
Sorry for BM but seriously man.. youre like the type of person to buy something to just test it out knowing youre likely going to send it back cus you just want to try it.
He offered you free headphones and a replacement kb and still calling them cheap. Cmon bro.
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Hey I keep what I buy and I use it.
- I bought the keyboard in 2012. The eStore puts "in stock" when in facts it is a special Order. It took over a month to get the unit. Not happy!
- I open the box - 6 keys are not clicking. I bought Green for what they are supposed to do - Click. Even according to Cherry, non clicky Greens are considered defective.
- I call the eStore for a RMA. These guys told me can't do it... And tell me I have to call Cooler Master and get their Approval and come back with a Ticket Number- WHAT?
- I call Cooler Master - They don't provide such a ticket - Told me to use 1234
- Call back the eStore - Sorry we don't keep stock, send us your keyboard, then we are going to send it to CM and we will ship it back to you once we receive the replacement unit - WHAT?
- So called CM - To send them the keyboard directly. They agreed but not their way of doing business - I have to pay to ship it there. What?
- They finally agreed to pay for shipping.
- 20 days later - no words from CM
- Email 3 times... No response...
Then the Guy say... We're going to bundle a cheap mouse and a pad for your patience. Now I'm really pi$$ed and you bet I turn into a Rep nightmare. You don't shove a candy in my mouth to shut me up. You want to buy patience... Show some respect and give something of value. If you are not welling to do so... Don't offer anything!
You know the rest of the story... It's March 9 and I still don't have th f-ing keyboard
And you call me whiner? You know what... If the above is roll model Customer Service for you... Then go work for them. I'm sure they pay very well... (Or not)
Youre a just a customer services rep worst nightmare. Impossible to please. nitpicks absolutely everything.
If youre that displeased with some green switches not being perfectly clicky, dont buy them again.
calling them cheap and **** is just being a flat out whiner. I would take a **** on the keyboard and send it back to you. Enjoy.
Sorry for BM but seriously man.. youre like the type of person to buy something to just test it out knowing youre likely going to send it back cus you just want to try it.
He offered you free headphones and a replacement kb and still calling them cheap. Cmon bro.
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Oh I forgot another element that ticked me off. Bull****.
According to RMA, they never heard non clicky greens before. (Some sort of pun?)
Meanwhile, an unusual amount of defective non clicky MX switches seams to have slip to the cracks in the last few batches.
[attachimg=1]
But I can't blame CM for saying so. They are no different than other companies.
Rule number one, deny. When proof, say you didn't know and move on.
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Hmm lets see who get's their replacement (mine will be a fix though, since it was limited) KB's first.
I'm still waiting for Ducky to get Green switch kb back to me after supposedly fixing it!
Sounds like CM is not much better in CS then Ducky as been to me.
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just a FYI - i ended up desoldering the one switch that was giving me a problem. Once i opened it up and and reset everything back together, the switch was fine and clicked as normal. it may be easier than waiting for a RMA or if you're out of warranty.
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To me this really isnt a problem with CM, but a bad batch of cherry mx switches that hit the market. Sucks, but it happens... Just think about how many switches that are produced..
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To me this really isnt a problem with CM, but a bad batch of cherry mx switches that hit the market. Sucks, but it happens... Just think about how many switches that are produced..
CM has nothing to do with bad switches. That I agree 100%. But Cherry is not the ones putting the QC OK stamps under the keyboards. CM does.
Now I'm going to allow a "conspiracy theory". With only 68 people voting on the clicking issue Poll, I don't consider these results accurate. Still, they are showing 50% of the 2012-2013 keyboards with non clicky switches. This is a lot worst than "very rare" or "never heard" of it. No wonder nobody has any Green based keyboards in stock. Maybe the RMA rate went to the roof and the manufacture had to recall their stocks. Since this is not a public health issue, they don't have to brag about it. Of course I have no fact and this is pure speculation.
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Oh crap... When I said yes to the RMA folks offering a Trigger with green instead of the QFR I had in mind the Quick Fire Pro.
I hate pretty much everything about the Trigger.
-Huge
-Exposed mini USB connector
-Require additional power supply
This fugly thing will be for sale as soon as I get it.
Sigh... I should of peak at CM site before replying Yes to that question. Dammit.
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Hi everyone,
I just want to clarify something real quick.... we have NO CONTROL over CherryMX Greens because they are a special made-to-order batch. Remember, they were originally intended just for space bar use and very few vendors were actually supplying green switch keyboards. We've since increased our focus on Green for upcoming models, so therefore we can command more of a QC from Cherry's production line.
As far as our customer service goes, I've been reading about how poor some people have been treated in the past and have been actively working on my end to fix that. I am trying to help everyone I can within the limitations of available stock.
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Hi everyone,
I just want to clarify something real quick.... we have NO CONTROL over CherryMX Greens because they are a special made-to-order batch. Remember, they were originally intended just for space bar use and very few vendors were actually supplying green switch keyboards. We've since increased our focus on Green for upcoming models, so therefore we can command more of a QC from Cherry's production line.
As far as our customer service goes, I've been reading about how poor some people have been treated in the past and have been actively working on my end to fix that. I am trying to help everyone I can within the limitations of available stock.
Rajiv,
can you comment on the numerous articles from CES that claimed CM has some sort of exclusivity with regards to distribution of MX Greens? Also, are you claiming that you guys aren't QCing the boards when they are assembled to check for defective switches?
Cheers.
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Hi there,
We have discussed with Cherry on putting more emphasis on Green, and due to their limited production, we will most likely be the exclusive distributor in the US. There are obviously some vendors who still have access to limited quantities but not to the scale we are aiming to bring. Also, our established channels in the US give us added exposure.
An example of our efforts to educate the general public on Green switches:
http://techreport.com/review/24461/a-first-look-at-cherry-mx-green-key-switches
We are extremely focused on building out the mechanical keyboard community with education.
As far as QC goes, we do absolutely check our keyboards and switches at the factory level.
I am actually in the process of learning our whole process so I can maybe share these details with you.
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If CM gets exclusivity on Green in NA... The price for Duckys with green will skyrocket.
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If CM gets exclusivity on Green in NA... The price for Duckys with green will skyrocket.
It won't be real exclusivity, the point they're making is that CM has bought up almost all the production for Greens, thus creating a sort of "scarcity" of the switch. CM will have a lot of boards that feature it, but other manufacturers will have a hard time finding any. Just like how Logitech bought up the majority of the mx brown production.
Cheers,
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Feel free to report your QFR incident
My QFR (mx blue) has 2 keys with clicking problem. That's not the end of the world catastrophe, but it would be nice, if CM include several spare switches in theirs blue/green keyboards for manual resoldering by end user :-)
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Mine click. Whats up?
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It won't be real exclusivity, the point they're making is that CM has bought up almost all the production for Greens, thus creating a sort of "scarcity" of the switch. CM will have a lot of boards that feature it, but other manufacturers will have a hard time finding any. Just like how Logitech bought up the majority of the mx brown production.
Switches are not like diamonds. Cherry would be crazy not to increase its production to match the demand.
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It won't be real exclusivity, the point they're making is that CM has bought up almost all the production for Greens, thus creating a sort of "scarcity" of the switch. CM will have a lot of boards that feature it, but other manufacturers will have a hard time finding any. Just like how Logitech bought up the majority of the mx brown production.
Switches are not like diamonds. Cherry would be crazy not to increase its production to match the demand.
It's production lines are most likely already pushing their limits. And I bet retooling for different switches is not a trivial process and takes a long time.
Cheers,
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The switch seeing highest demand is BROWN for production purposes. Green is a very niche at the moment but we are working on educating the market.
Which will probably bring me to a post in terms of what methods people have used to convert membrane users over to mechanical without sounding too technical. Sometimes its hard justifying on price alone: a $100~ keyboard when millions of people use 20$ non-mechanicals and they have no idea on why they need one.
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The switch seeing highest demand is BROWN for production purposes. Green is a very niche at the moment but we are working on educating the market.
Which will probably bring me to a post in terms of what methods people have used to convert membrane users over to mechanical without sounding too technical. Sometimes its hard justifying on price alone: a $100~ keyboard when millions of people use 20$ non-mechanicals and they have no idea on why they need one.
They don't need one... that's a fact...
This is a novelty item... since it produces no increased performance, as the "performance" here is not dependent on the tool..
Sean Wrona will type 1000 cpm on any keyboard...
Horowitz will sound great and expressive on any piano...
excuse me for comparing Wrona to Horowitz, I know they're not on the same artistic level.
I am merely drawing a parallel in their dedication to their craft..
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This is a novelty item... since it produces no increased performance, as the "performance" here is not dependent on the tool..
There isn't only performance, but also comfort. I can type about 5 wpm faster on my laptop keyboard, but my fingers start to hurt independently on my speed in less than an hour (making short breaks unfortunately doesn't help). On the other hand, I've never experienced any pain from typing without bottoming out on Cherry MX Red.
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This is a novelty item... since it produces no increased performance, as the "performance" here is not dependent on the tool..
There isn't only performance, but also comfort. I can type about 5 wpm faster on my laptop keyboard, but my fingers start to hurt independently on my speed in less than an hour (making short breaks unfortunately doesn't help). On the other hand, I've never experienced any pain from typing without bottoming out on Cherry MX Red.
Ok, but the issue is "you" pushing a bit too hard on the laptop keys..
So, you need to make a technique adjustment... the Keyboard's technical superiority still stands.
While it requires bottoming out.. It Certainly-does-not require so much force that you'd be hurting yourself.
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This is a novelty item... since it produces no increased performance, as the "performance" here is not dependent on the tool..
There isn't only performance, but also comfort. I can type about 5 wpm faster on my laptop keyboard, but my fingers start to hurt independently on my speed in less than an hour (making short breaks unfortunately doesn't help). On the other hand, I've never experienced any pain from typing without bottoming out on Cherry MX Red.
Ok, but the issue is "you" pushing a bit too hard on the laptop keys..
So, you need to make a technique adjustment... the Keyboard's technical superiority still stands.
While it requires bottoming out.. It Certainly-does-not require so much force that you'd be hurting yourself.
So, I can use a knife as a spoon, and if I cut myself it's not the fact I'm using a knife, it's the way I'm holding it! Clearly I just need a technique adjustment and then I will be able to use the knife, I mean spoon, correctly. Thanks for clearing that up!
Cheers,
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My CM QFR has a non clicking key, but its the #6 key so it doesn't matter too much to me.
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My CM QFR has a non clicking key, but its the #6 key so it doesn't matter too much to me.
Hmm..... I think GH should probably Halt all Quickfire recommendations from here on... until some "definitive" proof of "return to quality" comes out....
Oh, and yea just read BucklingSpring's post about his "customer-service experience"
Bro... that's Boarderline extortion.... :D ...
But yea I AGREE they "Should" keep some stock for replacements.
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it has nothing to do with the QFR. filco is having the same problem. the only difference is filco refuses to refund, rma or admit that it's a defect
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I've just noticed that my Majestouch Ninja's "J" key does not have as much of a pronounced click or tactile feel as any of the other keys do. It's not something I notice in normal typing, so it's not a huge deal. Gives me more of an incentive to buy a soldering iron and learn how to solder though.
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I've just noticed that my Majestouch Ninja's "J" key does not have as much of a pronounced click or tactile feel as any of the other keys do. It's not something I notice in normal typing, so it's not a huge deal. Gives me more of an incentive to buy a soldering iron and learn how to solder though.
Or you know, visit a doctor to get the OCD under control.
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I've just noticed that my Majestouch Ninja's "J" key does not have as much of a pronounced click or tactile feel as any of the other keys do. It's not something I notice in normal typing, so it's not a huge deal. Gives me more of an incentive to buy a soldering iron and learn how to solder though.
Today my up arrow key decided it would rather be a linear switch. I pressed it a bunch and it fixed itself. I did spill a really tiny amount of water on the keyboard a while before (a few ml, really barely any at all) so that may have been the reason.
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I found such offer more offensive than nothing at all. So I asked for a little more (Sirus 5.1 SGH-6000-KK5R1 to be precise)
You have got to be kidding me...pretty sure that's worth more than the board!