geekhack
geekhack Community => Off Topic => Topic started by: okooko on Thu, 07 February 2013, 20:51:07
-
Hi guys,
This is in regards, but not limited to threads such as
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40027.0
I really wanted to weigh in on the conversation at hand in the thread itself, but I want to respect the thread starter and general forum ettiquet by not potentially threadcrapping and annoying the mods./admins for no reason.
I am not trying to single out the above link (we all know theres been a few) but using it as a guide to form this discussion. I'm not sure if theres been something like this before but I made this thread in a heat of the moment so please bare with me =).
Hopefully this thread you can respectfully vent your angers and share your experiences with such things.
I hope Phetto comes in here to express his distaste without causing too much verbal snafu.
Plz discuss!
edit1: Thanks Samwise, yeah I only wanted a civilised discussion and for people to appropriately/respectfully convey their own ideas and thoughts
I am not against the action of this, as its one's decision/free reign to do as they please (forum rules abiding and all) in the sales. Despite the act been seen as vicious to some, its really just another day in the real world, where people make the most of their opportunities whether here on GH or elsewhere.
Phetto, I've bought stuff off you and for a good price despite shipping costs and going by the people involved/saw your sales thread, they can make their own opinions on what type of guy you are by selling what you sold for the price you did. And I'm sure the replies are unanimously positive and most would understand you sell to allow others to appreciate coz surely you made a loss on it.
Theres no point singling out anyone for these type of actions, as this happens more than you know (aka the number of eBay CCs in 'great finds' or 'worst finds') but at least drawing some attention to the issue will give other members their own evidence of these events and will it upto them to decide what they think about it and the people that do it.
tl,dr:
1.Phettos a top guy who sold his CCs to people hoping they would appreciate having them
2.Not everyone thinks like above and some resell for profit
3.My view: technically nothing wrong, morally sighing.
damn it boss called me into a meeting....will update with questions etc later!!
ok no more meetings for another hour.
-
Come on guys - you are a bunch of grown men fighting over little pieces of colored plastic.
Be happy you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach.
:)
-
Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/
-
Oh boy here we go...
-
Oh boy here we go...
It's just our bi-weekly "vent-your-angry-thoughts" thread :P
-
but but MUHH CLICK CLUCKS
/me would burn them...BURN THEM ALL
-
Ok, this is fine to discuss. Especially if it stays moderately polite. Also thanks to the OP for starting this as a new topic so people can choose to enter or not as they see fit.
I am going to venture an educated guess that this may wander a bit afield from discussing any particular keyboard, so I am going to move the thread to OT.
Have at it folks. No hitting below the belt - heck, let's just avoid mentioning things below the belt.
Enjoy!
- Ron | samwisekoi
-
-- removed at phetto's request --
your ass is ok in my book :) you know we probably agree on more than we disagree about, including fair pricing for keyboard toys. i would be as frustrated as you are because i like the idea of a community that has no profit motives. i dont know if i am in the minority or the majority with that opinion because a few people on either side like to talk loudly about it and most people just stay out of the discussion because it always ends up in a flamewar. i try to stay out of that these days... got more important things to type about on my fancy keyboard.
-
When I started to get really mad was when I waited 1 day after I asked him in the thread, didnt get any response, even though he has logged on and off several times without answering.
-
Looking at the thread, it wasn't clear to me (and I'm sure anyone but the initial seller) that this was a quick resell. While I do feel a bit deceived by his wording (Selling things to finance a PC to me implies he's had them for a while and not simply fencing them.) However, I don't want to smirk his name. It is entirely possible he didn't realize how much money he needed for his computer or something.
This sort of practice is really hard to discourage and there seems to be one easy way to fix it - always sell something for its market value.
-
Looking at the thread, it wasn't clear to me (and I'm sure anyone but the initial seller) that this was a quick resell. While I do feel a bit deceived by his wording (Selling things to finance a PC to me implies he's had them for a while and not simply fencing them.) However, I don't want to smirk his name. It is entirely possible he didn't realize how much money he needed for his computer or something.
This sort of practice is really hard to discourage and there seems to be one easy way to fix it - always sell something for its market value.
Who defines the "market value" then?
Some people clacks are worth $500, others it's $5.
-
My stance on this doesn't really include what the thread is probably all about; clacks. I don't care much for novelty caps, so my views are more about GBs and keycap sets, and sales in general.
I don't mind people making a profit from selling stuff on GH, that means(at least in theory) that they have greater interest and incentive to keep doing it and provide a reliable service. Of course if they're doing it at a loss or no profit then that means they have the dedication, but that also means that it's likely to go right to the bottom of their priorities if something comes up, for instance if they lose their job or other issues.
This (obviously) implies that everything is kept within reason.
It should also be noted that I have never actually bought or sold anything through GH, so I might be missing a point or two. I just find it far more comfortable to buy things from a store, for instance I'd rather get a Poker from kbtpure.com instead of waiting for some group buy that may or may not go as planned. Not saying that buying from a store is guaranteed to be flawless, but I just find ordering, paying and shipping to be far more convenient. If someone making a profit off of it is what it takes to get it set up like that, I'm fine with it.
Edit: sth posted while I typed this, and reading his post put words to something I, tired as I am at the moment, failed to put into words; profit motive. That's not what I'm talking about when I say I'm ok with them making a profit, I believe that the profit, if any, should be an incentive to keep doing it or doing it properly, not the main reason for doing it.
-
I wanted to sell them so people less fortunate could grab em, I know a guy that isnt in to clacks, but often says that he want stuff but cant afford it because of the pricing.. those kind of guys mainly..
-
While I do not support or agree with the price gouging on novelty items, it is unfortunately inevitable. It is a part of human nature and is not preventable. Even if rules were in place to curb price gouging, people who wish to price gouge will find a way to sell to willing buyers.
While it may annoy you, it is best to ignore it. The less attention you bring to a thread with price gauging, the less of a chance there is for people to see it. Even though someone may buy it an item at unreasonable prices, you'll be satisfied to know it wasn't you that paid such a foolish price.
keymaster, acctually I paid something like the same price he sells them for.
My post wasn't aimed at anyone in specific.
-
keymaster, acctually I paid something like the same price he sells them for.
-
Ive updated OP!
Its nice that people are expressing their opinions and thoughts in a good fashion.
I've seen a few giveaways here and there that really bring back the feeling of community and it gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling when the recipient is gracious.
Even if there was a pricing guide, which I believe is loosely being made (in a CC's thread - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39794.0#post_Price) courtesy of CPTBadAss.
Its probably the best thing we have at the moment.
One last thing, I'm pretty sure many people know who much these go for normally, but the guys that are snapping them up for higher prices probably have the money and wont mind paying premium for it.
-
Who defines the "market value" then?
Some people clacks are worth $500, others it's $5.
With something like clacks, its very hard to pin an exact value. Ideally, someone would track how much each clack sold for and could be used as a reference, but that isn't at all possible.
The only thing I can say is Phetto sold the clack for less on a condition he couldn't enforce but thought was natural, and when he realized he could enforce it he got upset. I empathize with him, but can't help but think this could've been avoided if he had made his intentions very clear.
-
Who defines the "market value" then?
Some people clacks are worth $500, others it's $5.
With something like clacks, its very hard to pin an exact value. Ideally, someone would track how much each clack sold for and could be used as a reference, but that isn't at all possible.
The only thing I can say is Phetto sold the clack for less on a condition he couldn't enforce but thought was natural, and when he realized he could enforce it he got upset. I empathize with him, but can't help but think this could've been avoided if he had made his intentions very clear.
It would be hard to track, but if someone really wanted to I guess they could
I do agree that what he did was REALLY ****ty
-
lol, there's no such thing as fair market value on a forum board, for one thing, there's no market. half these items are "silent" auction or SOLD!, if everything was transparent and all prices were reflect, then i could wager theres a possibility of "fair market value" because at least in this way the community can see transactions done, and then access from there, much like the stock market, every trade and cash value is out in the open, that therefor creates a market.
what we currently have now, is subjective pricing, BUT with underhanded auctioning,imo the seller has too much power.
-
lol, there's no such thing as fair market value on a forum board, for one thing, there's no market. half these items are "silent" auction or SOLD!, if everything was transparent and all prices were reflect, then i could wager theres a possibility of "fair market value" because at least in this way the community can see transactions done, and then access from there, much like the stock market, every trade and cash value is out in the open, that therefor creates a market.
what we currently have now, is subjective pricing, BUT with underhanded auctioning,imo the seller has too much power.
I'm used to having a reserve price, instant price and a set date when the sale will end.
I don't like to see silent auctions as there is no transparency and how do you sell something without giving a price and using 'ask me and ill tell you if its good' sort of terminology.
But this is how it is, I guess the more aware the buyer are of the commercial values of these items, the less the ballooned costs for future sales.
But again, it doesnt stop people with the cash.
-
Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/
Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.
-
Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/
Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.
yes the import market is pretty touchy... there is more to it than just getting the board. you can put somebody's rep on the line... just like if you invite people to a torrent site and they bomb, you get banned too.
-
Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.
ok, full story time then?
Someone approached me about buying a Korean board that explicitly said CONUS Only. (Yours)
They asked me to keep it secret because the last time they tried to get a Korean board (That was CONUS only), someone refused to sell to them, even after they had a proxy independently contact the seller, because they were based outside of the US.
You asked me if I had any Korean boards, and I, nor the person who paid for and received the board has had a Korean board before and it was their first. So I saw absolutely nothing wrong with this, I'm sorry that you did.
Once you had picked me as the buyer (I assumed because I was the first to contact who had not had a Korean board before) I notified the person who wanted the board and they wired me the money to pay for the board and their shipping.
You got your money, you left the site, and someone got their first Korean custom board.
But then...
(http://i.imgur.com/x1pVSE9m.png) (http://imgur.com/x1pVSE9.png)
MMB (or Bro Caps w/e), I have no problems with you, and I apologize that you had a problem with me proxying something for someone. Would you have been fine if I kept the board for a week and then re-listed it in the classifieds? Since that is what this thread is all about, flipping profits on something the second you get them. I did not make one cent on helping proxy that board, in fact, I lost about $20 in excessive shipping and a few goodies I threw in for the guy.
So MMBroCaps please get "outta this ****hole"
:)
PS. I'd like to show the PM's we had about you "selecting" me but since your other account was deleted or something I cannot see the messages I sent you, only what you sent me.
-
Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.
Either way, you lied. That's the point.
-
Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.
I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.
GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK
ENDQUOTE
This was what bro caps said in the FS thread this all got started at, I copied it so I could reply here and not thread crap yet still share my opinion.
I have to agree with what he says, just because one person values a cap at one price, doesn't mean another person that really wants that one cap has the same value on it.
And although I don't agree with the whole idea of someone PMing a person going way over the asking price right away, it's kind of the same idea. That person that really wants the cap would obviously hold it higher and pay more for it.
May be a little off topic but it makes sense to me :)
-
Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.
Either way, you lied. That's the point.
What more would you expect from a liar and cheater :)
-
Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.
I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.
GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK
ENDQUOTE
This was what bro caps said in the FS thread this all got started at, I copied it so I could reply here and not thread crap yet still share my opinion.
I have to agree with what he says, just because one person values a cap at one price, doesn't mean another person that really wants that one cap has the same value on it.
And although I don't agree with the whole idea of someone PMing a person going way over the asking price right away, it's kind of the same idea. That person that really wants the cap would obviously hold it higher and pay more for it.
May be a little off topic but it makes sense to me :)
the amount of money in your pocket has absolutely nothing to do with how badly you may or may not want something
-
maybe im just spoilt with how good the deskthority community are
all ive said still stands...
- ive said it before, i will say it again. this is a community not an auction house.
when people offer a high price it means other have to pay a high price to compete driving and driving the item up.
the only way to do CC fairly is to either mass produce like red ESC or sell them for what they originally sold for when made.
as for proper stuff and not silly bits of plastic i feel people are fine to list stuff they have found cheap elsewhere and sell it at listprice or below here. My issue is with the selling and reselling games here and those which inflate prices.
-
Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.
Either way, you lied. That's the point.
What more would you expect from a liar and cheater :)
Nah, I was thinking you were just mildly retarded. It's cool, though.
mod edit: user was warned for this post
-
I think it's cool if both parties can agree with the price. It takes someone who want an item, and someone who wants to sell it for a trade to work ain't it?
So if two individuals value a key at $1000, and they are fine with selling/buying it for the price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it..
-
Nah, I was thinking you were just mildly retarded. It's cool, though.
(http://i.imgur.com/VWr6I.gif)
-
Sharing private PM's is just what I expected from you. But that's cool, as I have nothing to hide.
Either way, you lied. That's the point.
What more would you expect from a liar and cheater :)
Nah, I was thinking you were just mildly retarded. It's cool, though.
That ain't cool bro
-
I think it's cool if both parties can agree with the price. It takes someone who want an item, and someone who wants to sell it for a trade to work ain't it?
So if two individuals value a key at $1000, and they are fine with selling/buying it for the price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it..
Exactly. People are complaining about voluntary trade :P
-
/me goes back to being a good little commie
-
I think Rouger's point is valid. Hugely inflated prices may be "fair" and they may be a reflection of supply and demand, but they do harm the community in the sense that they make things unavailable for many of the starving student types we have around here.
-
I think it's cool if both parties can agree with the price. It takes someone who want an item, and someone who wants to sell it for a trade to work ain't it?
So if two individuals value a key at $1000, and they are fine with selling/buying it for the price, I don't think there's anything wrong with it..
Exactly. People are complaining about voluntary trade :P
voluntary trade inside of a relatively tiny community that is heavily affected by mob mentality when it comes to the expensive flavor of the month
-
I think Rouger's point is valid. Hugely inflated prices may be "fair" and they may be a reflection of supply and demand, but they do harm the community in the sense that they make things unavailable for many of the starving student types we have around here.
In communist USSR, this would be a valid point. But this is a free capital market. If they are starving students, then they should be striving to make more money to afford things they want. People shouldn't be bullied into lowering their prices just because someone doesn't agree with them. It can't be any simpler than saying "If you don't like those prices, don't pay those prices".
In my last sale, I sold CC's for about 40 bucks each, shipped. I wanted people to have them at an affordable price. But I have no problems with people asking for more, especially since nntnam got a few of those from me, and it cost me quite a bit to obtain them. So I think he has every right to sell them at his asking prices.
-
I think Rouger's point is valid. Hugely inflated prices may be "fair" and they may be a reflection of supply and demand, but they do harm the community in the sense that they make things unavailable for many of the starving student types we have around here.
In communist USSR, this would be a valid point. But this is a free capital market. If they are starving students, then they should be striving to make more money to afford things they want. People shouldn't be bullied into lowering their prices just because someone doesn't agree with them. It can't be any simpler than saying "If you don't like those prices, don't pay those prices".
In my last sale, I sold CC's for about 40 bucks each, shipped. I wanted people to have them at an affordable price. But I have no problems with people asking for more, especially since nntnam got a few of those from me, and it cost me quite a bit to obtain them. So I think he has every right to sell them at his asking prices.
Wait, I was only allowed 1 CC skull. Were others allow to buy more than one?
-
Wait, I was only allowed 1 CC skull. Were others allow to buy more than one?
Nope.
-
Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.
I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.
GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK
ENDQUOTE
This was what bro caps said in the FS thread this all got started at, I copied it so I could reply here and not thread crap yet still share my opinion.
I have to agree with what he says, just because one person values a cap at one price, doesn't mean another person that really wants that one cap has the same value on it.
And although I don't agree with the whole idea of someone PMing a person going way over the asking price right away, it's kind of the same idea. That person that really wants the cap would obviously hold it higher and pay more for it.
May be a little off topic but it makes sense to me :)
the amount of money in your pocket has absolutely nothing to do with how badly you may or may not want something
True, but if someone wants an item bad enough, they are going to be willing to pay more for it.
If you wanted to get rid of a cap quickly(like phetto) and I bought it, I would have more patience and ask for a higher price.
Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.
I'm not trying to make any enemy's here, I'm just sticking up for someone that I don't think did anything wrong.
-
Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.
very few click clacks were ever sold by CC or EK for more than... what, 30 bucks or so? The most expensive one was a charity auction that CC himself contributed the key to.
-
Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.
you're right, it was more like $9 (solid color) and $18 (black tri-color) they went for originally 2 years ago on EK :(
-
In communist USSR, this would be a valid point. But this is a free capital market. If they are starving students, then they should be striving to make more money to afford things they want. People shouldn't be bullied into lowering their prices just because someone doesn't agree with them. It can't be any simpler than saying "If you don't like those prices, don't pay those prices".
In my last sale, I sold CC's for about 40 bucks each, shipped. I wanted people to have them at an affordable price. But I have no problems with people asking for more, especially since nntnam got a few of those from me, and it cost me quite a bit to obtain them. So I think he has every right to sell them at his asking prices.
It's valid here too. Community is a choice each of us individually makes. We are not slaves to market forces.
-
It's valid here too. Community is a choice each of us individually makes. We are not slaves to market forces.
hear hear.
-
C O M M U N I T Y
-
C O M M U N I T Y
B O O T A Y
-
Also 50 dollars isn't what they were sold for in the beginning, it's closer to 100, so if we went by what you said that would make sense.
you're right, it was more like $9 (solid color) and $18 (black tri-color) they went for originally 2 years ago on EK :(
Oh man.. I guess I've gotten the wrong impression then! I'll admit when I was wrong, and man was I.
But you have to admit that these are obviously rare, and although you may see 50 as fair, I think 100 dollars is a good price for a piece that isn't made anymore. And among our community a lot of people like them cause they're rare.
Same with the ironmans and vaders.
My arguments are obviously terrible compared to bro caps, but I've been having to much fun for a Thursday night so that could explain it.. :p
-
/me spanks sth' B O O T AY
-
Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.
I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.
GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK
Didnt you just make a statement here that means, its yours, do whatever you want with it, sell it to whoever you want or do whatever you want with it? at the same time you are calling me a whiner, when you are doing the exact same thing?
What are you trying to say really?
-
Sell your stuff for how much you feel you need to sell them for. Ignore these f**king whiners, like Rouger and phetto. If you need to sell them, then sell them at the price you expect you should get for them.
I know that a couple of those I traded to you, which actually cost way more than what you are selling them for.
GEEK-whineandcryaboutf**kingplasticpieces-HACK
Didnt you just make a statement here that means, its yours, do whatever you want with it, sell it to whoever you want or do whatever you want with it? at the same time you are calling me a whiner, when you are doing the exact same thing?
What are you trying to say really?
What's he whining about?
-
about kmiller8 bought a keyboard to proxy for him
-
about kmiller8 bought a keyboard to proxy for him
Ohhh I thought you misunderstood when he said " I know some caps I traded you are worth more than what you're selling them for"
I thought you were talking about that, my bad
-
Oh man MMB sold the LZ-S? I wanted that so badly. Well, I have one now anyway. I think this topic is, and always has been silly. Just don't buy **** you don't think is fairly priced. I always sell **** for low because I just want it to sell and to make someone happy, not to profit. I never buy something that I think is stupidly priced, but I buy to support a cause or person. Other people wanna scheme a buck, whatever. As long as someone's gonna buy it, they're gonna do it, there isn't something that isn't absolutely outrageous that we can do about it really. Other than get rid of auctions.
Oh wait I think I saw your LZ-S for sale. But no international -_- and the pink CC...
-
But no international -_-
You could have tried to find a proxy.. oh wait :rolleyes:
<3 u sifoooooooooooooo
-
With my luck, MMB shipping an LZ-S would not end well.
-
Oh man MMB sold the LZ-S? I wanted that so badly. Well, I have one now anyway. I think this topic is, and always has been silly. Just don't buy **** you don't think is fairly priced. I always sell **** for low because I just want it to sell and to make someone happy, not to profit. I never buy something that I think is stupidly priced, but I buy to support a cause or person. Other people wanna scheme a buck, whatever. As long as someone's gonna buy it, they're gonna do it, there isn't something that isn't absolutely outrageous that we can do about it really. Other than get rid of auctions.
Oh wait I think I saw your LZ-S for sale. But no international -_- and the pink CC...
I have your pink....
it's really nice :P
-
Bro. Don't make me come over there.
-
Bro. Don't make me come over there.
It's my 3rd favorite after purple and orangesicle
-
Bro. Don't make me come over there.
It's my 3rd favorite after purple and orangesicle
Then kindly bring it over here ^^ I really miss it. Unless you're gonna resell it for profit!
-
I only keep clacks I like. If I resell, you'll know I'm in trouble
-
I am all for transparency is business because it creates an assurance for both parties, and so if you think about the GH community as a company it is beneficial to know who is/isn't upholding deals but knowing what information could be potentially caustic is fair. But then again, this is the internet. On the 'other' topic raised, if someone sells something they own for a huge markup that's their prerogative but they must always remember that it will reflect on them in future sales or trades. I have no real problem with flipping other then the regret caused to the original seller. But pragmatically, there is nothing to argue if someone finds a buyer for something who is willing to pay way above face value, each party gets what they want. The buyer obviously doesn't care about premiums if they are happy to fork over large sums money, and the seller makes a nice margin on it. People are hoping for too much moral obligation attached to the word community when buying and selling. People who do sell things at or below cost(or give away) are great for GH, but this should by no means be expected to be the norm.
Yeah I am a capitalist, so sue me.
-
btw i totally never realized it was a rule to keep the price in the thread, as everyone i've seen doing business in classified deletes the item/price.
To be fair, its just easier to delete items that are sold, or just delete the price and note it as sold
if you leave a price up on the item, people may think its still available because of the price.
Anyway, people can run their sell threads however they want. This "community" doesn't dictate what items you can buy, what items you can sell, and what prices they should be.
Just look back to the 420 CC, didn't one go for $300+?
-
btw i totally never realized it was a rule to keep the price in the thread, as everyone i've seen doing business in classified deletes the item/price.
To be fair, its just easier to delete items that are sold, or just delete the price and note it as sold
if you leave a price up on the item, people may think its still available because of the price.
Anyway, people can run their sell threads however they want. This "community" doesn't dictate what items you can buy, what items you can sell, and what prices they should be.
Just look back to the 420 CC, didn't one go for $300+?
Yeah I remember the 420CC going for iirc $200+ not sure if it reach 300 though.
I think the general concensis is pretty much 'if both parties are willing then theres nothing wrong'
Which is obviously all good.
I think what I meant for this thread was more of 'buy for cheaps' and 'sell for heaps', loosely use those terms but you get the idea.
Although its not wrong, but it does leave a sour taste in the eyes of the seller who previously sold them under the impression that the items will go to a good home.
Its like seeing 'free to a good home' ads in the paper for pets then knowing the person just ended up selling your old dog. probably not that relevant but i get pissed.
-
@everyone, I'm really sorry to cause this problem and a war here. Phetto and I had some nice conversation and we could understanding each others now. My point is stated in my sale thread and is still unchanged. But when I realize that phetto actually sold that caps to me lower than what he purchased, I felt like I'm an ass-hole. I hope I knew this fact sooner. I didn't apologize him in my thread but I would like to do it publicly here. Hope you would accept my apology, phetto.
@phetto, if you have some free time, please say something about this.
-
@everyone, I'm really sorry to cause this problem and a war here. Phetto and I had some nice conversation and we could understanding each others now. My point is stated in my sale thread and is still unchanged. But when I realize that phetto actually sold that caps to me lower than what he purchased, I felt like I'm an ass-hole. I hope I knew this fact sooner. I didn't apologize him in my thread but I would like to do it publicly here. Hope you would accept my apology, phetto.
@phetto, if you have some free time, please say something about this.
nntnam, as the thread starter, I just like to say I have absolutely no beef with you. I took the opportunity with your thread to gauge how the community though about it and did not purposely try to single you out (as mentionned in the OP), if you feel singled out by my post, then I apologise it was not my intention.
As many have mentionned previously there is nothing wrong with your sale (most of the thread keeps going back to saying how CC's are overpriced) but yeah, Ive discovered that as long as there is supply and demand and an agreeable price between parties, then there is nothing misleading or sinister about the trade regardless of what the sellers intentions were to begin with.
-
Something is wrong with this, I'm not sure why people are mad or maybe because someone sold something higher than the market price, it's like the community restricts the freedom of the seller. If the price is too high, no one will buy them, if there are people buying them then they are willing buyers, isn't that just easy to understand? Why is everyone so butthurt about it? If you guys are butthurt, why not do it in pm instead of crapping someone's thread? Does it make you all mighty and proud to gang on one person as to what he does is not wrong at all? I have no problem with him selling high or low, I bought a keyboard from nntnam, although it took a few days because of my pay, but we eventually came up with a deal and we settled it rather easy and professionally, and bam, I got the keyboard 3 days later. I'm sure for him to sell me that keyboard was really hurtful to him and the price he sold me was not justified at all for him, but he needed the money. Sometimes I'm even afraid of selling something in this forum because I needed the money or else a bunch of hyenas gang up on me.
-
Something is wrong with this, I'm not sure why people are mad or maybe because someone sold something higher than the market price, it's like the community restricts the freedom of the seller. If the price is too high, no one will buy them, if there are people buying them then they are willing buyers, isn't that just easy to understand? Why is everyone so butthurt about it? If you guys are butthurt, why not do it in pm instead of crapping someone's thread? Does it make you all mighty and proud to gang on one person as to what he does is not wrong at all? I have no problem with him selling high or low, I bought a keyboard from nntnam, although it took a few days because of my pay, but we eventually came up with a deal and we settled it rather easy and professionally, and bam, I got the keyboard 3 days later. I'm sure for him to sell me that keyboard was really hurtful to him and the price he sold me was not justified at all for him, but he needed the money. Sometimes I'm even afraid of selling something in this forum because I needed the money or else a bunch of hyenas gang up on me.
I was aiming for a discussion on the resale of items given that the items were purchased significantly less than the resale value and what peoples thoughts were on it.
But as always, the thread eluded this within the first few posts and conformed to the historically long running discussion of how CCs are just flat out expensive.
I never said nntnam was a bad dude, and if he felt singled out, I did apologise to him in an earlier post. I understand Phetto's initial disappointment in the sale though.
-
Thank you for understanding nntnam. Everything is good :)
edit: Listen to this guys, nntnam acctually gave me money that he got from the sale he made. At first I refused to accept, but he kept insisting. Thats community spirit for ya. :D
-
Idk how many of you were around, but does any one else remember when we ****ing hated Nokcha because we thought he was reselling groupbuy keycaps on his ebay for more money? And how did that turn out. Nokcha's an awesome guy who's just trying to run a store and provide novelty caps for the community. <3
Everyone has their intentions and their side of the story. Most important thing to always remember is to not jump to conclusions. This thread is full of that.
-
Something is wrong with this, I'm not sure why people are mad or maybe because someone sold something higher than the market price, it's like the community restricts the freedom of the seller. If the price is too high, no one will buy them, if there are people buying them then they are willing buyers, isn't that just easy to understand? Why is everyone so butthurt about it? If you guys are butthurt, why not do it in pm instead of crapping someone's thread? Does it make you all mighty and proud to gang on one person as to what he does is not wrong at all? I have no problem with him selling high or low, I bought a keyboard from nntnam, although it took a few days because of my pay, but we eventually came up with a deal and we settled it rather easy and professionally, and bam, I got the keyboard 3 days later. I'm sure for him to sell me that keyboard was really hurtful to him and the price he sold me was not justified at all for him, but he needed the money. Sometimes I'm even afraid of selling something in this forum because I needed the money or else a bunch of hyenas gang up on me.
I was aiming for a discussion on the resale of items given that the items were purchased significantly less than the resale value and what peoples thoughts were on it.
But as always, the thread eluded this within the first few posts and conformed to the historically long running discussion of how CCs are just flat out expensive.
I never said nntnam was a bad dude, and if he felt singled out, I did apologise to him in an earlier post. I understand Phetto's initial disappointment in the sale though.
I understand his frustration, but the things that other members did is just hurtful, I've seen people selling what I sold them for x2 price and there was someone who sold what I gave them in like a week later too. It's just sad but I never bothered about it. I see someone selling high I just laugh it off and walk away. But... Sigh.. I guess everyone can't be the same
-
Idk how many of you were around, but does any one else remember when we ****ing hated Nokcha because we thought he was reselling groupbuy keycaps on his ebay for more money? And how did that turn out. Nokcha's an awesome guy who's just trying to run a store and provide novelty caps for the community. <3
Everyone has their intentions and their side of the story. Most important thing to always remember is to not jump to conclusions. This thread is full of that.
Yeap!
-
Thank you for understanding nntnam. Everything is good :)
edit: Listen to this guys, nntnam acctually gave me money that he got from the sale he made. At first I refused to accept, but he kept insisting. Thats community spirit for ya. :D
Thank phetto.
-
Come on guys - you are a bunch of grown men fighting over little pieces of colored plastic.
Be happy you have a roof over your head and food in your stomach.
Here, here --- first world problems.
I don't think there should be any issue with people flipping items. They're all taking a risk. If someone participates in a groupbuy and they then sell those keys, etc. at a higher price that's not anti-community, etc. Those people took a risk -- maybe the item would be crappy, or be of high quality but ugly. They took the risk, and so they have the right to sell at any price they like. If it was too high a price, well, why are people paying it? The people who are willing to pay more for those items are the people who did not take the earlier risk.
Also, I think people who organize groupbuys should be not upset by this -- hey, be gratified! You helped create something that is of value. And if some 'greedy' (terrible word) people decide to become groupbuy flippers, that's fine so long as they pay their initial fees. That will only encourage more people to enter groupbuys to avoid paying more later.
-
Even if there was a pricing guide, which I believe is loosely being made (in a CC's thread - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39794.0#post_Price) courtesy of CPTBadAss.
Its probably the best thing we have at the moment.
One last thing, I'm pretty sure many people know who much these go for normally, but the guys that are snapping them up for higher prices probably have the money and wont mind paying premium for it.
Bit off topic for the thread but I was thinking about tracking prices more and adding it into the thread. I just wasn't sure if people were looking for that. I couldn't tell you how much clacks go for retail since I'm new (I believe the candy corn/ocktoberfest clacks were like $28 from EK) but I have been keeping tabs on prices in the classifieds.
If there's interest in this info, I'd be glad to add it to my thread. And if you want there to be comprehensive info, please PM me with any info you guys have. It's definitely easier with more eyes helping me out.
Edit: I forgot this but thanks for the shoutout okooko
-
I think a pricing index would be very good to have. Sadly, I have no data to contribute.
- Ron | samwisekoi
-
Some of you ultra capitalists are just nuts, also some of socialists too. There needs to be some balance is all that I think most people are saying. It does hurt the community as a whole to have people being what I view as predatory. QUIT defending these predators it is not helping anyone.
I hate the no threadcrapping rule too. I think we should be able to call people out on these things for any potential buyer to see as long as there is no personal attacking.
-
Some of you ultra capitalists are just nuts, also some of socialists too. There needs to be some balance is all that I think most people are saying. It does hurt the community as a whole to have people being what I view as predatory. QUIT defending these predators it is not helping anyone.
I hate the no threadcrapping rule too. I think we should be able to call people out on these things for any potential buyer to see as long as there is no personal attacking.
Agreed for the most part.
Q1: Lysol, should an OP be able to request "no thread-crapping" in his or her own thread?
Q2: Lysol, if an off-topic sub-thread develops and begins to flourish in a classified posting, should it be split out into its own thread and put in the right sub-forum?
- Ron | samwisekoi
-
2 threads for every FS thread to discuss :(
-
There is actually no rule against threadcrapping in the new TOS or the new Buying and Selling guidelines. Those were the old rules. It's an urban legend that won't go away, but some moderators are willing to enforce it. There need to be some guidelines in place for uniform moderation.
-
The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days. It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it. :)
-
Comments about the item, or it's price should be allowed and kept in the classifieds thread regardless if the seller like them or not. If things get personal or nasty, then I think it is ok to report it to moderation for action. Things getting off topic can be debatable, if it's semi relevant in some way... fine, but If someone comes in and starts talking about what they had for breakfast it doesn't really need to stay there.
-
Things getting off topic can be debatable, if it's semi relevant in some way... fine, but If someone comes in and starts talking about what they had for breakfast it doesn't really need to stay there.
BUT I NEED TO KNOW THAT!!!!!
-
Thanks for the info hash. I know you guys are on top of things.
As you can see, from this thread and the original, things worked out fine in the end. No need to create new threads for this type of discussion. Just have your say in the thread, and end it there. But really, other people don't need to step in and defend one side or the other. Clack sales have been discussed ad nauseum here, and we already know everyone's position by now. It should have been left between nntnam and phetto.
-
Not even just keycaps, or for profit. Someone flipped their **** on me because I proxied a Korean board to someone that they refused to deal with purely because they are out of the US :/
Telling half of the story, I see. The actual story was that you didn't bother mentioning it to me, and did it behind my back. You acted like you were buying the keyboard for yourself.
Don't tell half-stories.
from this story
guyA is buying from guyB
guyA doesn't tell guyB that guyA is buying for guyC
what the hell does it matter to guyB what guyA does?
if you sell, you sell
if you want to put a disclaimer of your products, go ahead then it would be fine
"i want to sell things, you're not allowed to buy for other ppl, just because"
ok
but otherwise what do you care?
if this were true, CC would be the maddest person around and put a disclaimer "for collector use only, please don't make monies and resell these keycaps"
and you know what, this does hurt the community, this very thread is the issue.
with every resold CC there is, there is always gonna be a 20% markup at least half the time.
sure some ppl will be like "CC for sale, for 40bucks please, i just want to make my money back"
some others will be like
"CC for sale for 50bucks please, i just want 10extra bucks cuz i'll miss the item"
then the next guy will be like
"CC for sale for 60bucks please, i just want 10extra bucks cuz i'll miss the item"
then you have idiots like ripster who use CC's to bribe ppl
-
What are you talking about Ripster doesn't care about CCs and thinks you guys are all silly for caring so much about them.
He used to joke about it because he got hookups to tease people.
Also the LZ sale, idk. Seems really silly to me. I wouldn't care if someone wanted to proxy; would just consider it a miscommunication
-
The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days. It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it. :)
charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked
GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.
CHARGE ppl!
-
The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days. It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it. :)
charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked
GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.
CHARGE ppl!
Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site
-
The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days. It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it. :)
charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked
GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.
CHARGE ppl!
Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site
No, it would just move all transactions to PMs and there'd just be a forum full of WTB threads.
-
why? this actually protects the buyer,
the buyer now knows that the seller is serious, because the seller has already paid for a listing fee, and is in a way is sort of vetted, by at least having mod/admin approval to sell.
how many auctions or wts/wtt threads have we seen
NVM! i don't want to sell it anymore, i love this clickclack! (but really i didn't the 40% markup i was looking for)
-
The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days. It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it. :)
charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked
GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.
CHARGE ppl!
Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site
No, it would just move all transactions to PMs and there'd just be a forum full of WTB threads.
oh even better, less junk to deal with,
charge 2$ paypal fee to list a wtb
-
I think just having the ability to give constructive criticism about a sale thread is enough to get a handle on the situation without it being censored anymore. Sure it would be nice for more seller (full disclosure, not even I have done so) to kick back something to GH if they want for the privilege of using the forum for profit sales, but making it a requirement might be a little out of step.
I don't feel that auctions have a place here though. Not everyone is an asshat, but it is too easy for shill bidding and general dishonesty especially for those that allow PM bids as no one else really has a clear view of what is actually happening.
-
As lysol has said, threadcrapping is fine as long as there are no unjust personal attacks.
-
thread crapping or anything beyond "seller is great A++++" will always be taken as a personal attack, cuz it's a personal thread really.
-
No, not to any rational person. There is a huge difference between a comment like, 'hey you know you can buy aX item from X place for new for X amount and your price might be a bit high' or 'that item usually sells for more like $XX price in used market' vs 'hey douchenozzle you are a ripoff *******'. As long as you are trying to help both the seller (make a sale eventually) and buyers (get for a fair price), it is not personal.
-
I don't understand if you guys were so worried about profit why not return the profit to the buyer instead of the first seller?
-
^ phetto sold them at a loss to nntnam as a "good-guy" gesture.
-
^ phetto sold them at a loss to nntnam as a "good-guy" gesture.
Ah makes sense then, guess thats what I get for just skimming the thread. Carry on lol
-
Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all
-
Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all
Yeah degrading someone's product they are trying to sell is definitely unacceptable.
-
Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all
Yeah degrading someone's product they are trying to sell is definitely unacceptable.
people should know that those headphones have a sound signature that many people really dislike. however i didnt read the thread so i dont know how bad it got.
i pretty much agree with everything lysol is saying. moving to a constructive classifieds section would help to stabilize prices and maybe return some expensive items to reasonable costs over time.
as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
if you advocate for 'no threadcrapping' policies then you are absolutely promoting market regulation, which aren't a bad thing, but the cognitive dissonance going on is astounding -- or people are just being honest. being that we're a big bunch of nerdy nerds i'm gonna have to unfortunately assume that the latter is more often the case.
-
Well if you look at my sell thread you can see there was lots of threadcrapping with me trying to sell my Bose headphones. Personally I don't thinkbthats constructive at all
Yeah degrading someone's product they are trying to sell is definitely unacceptable.
people should know that those headphones have a sound signature that many people really dislike. however i didnt read the thread so i dont know how bad it got.
i pretty much agree with everything lysol is saying. moving to a constructive classifieds section would help to stabilize prices and maybe return some expensive items to reasonable costs over time.
as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
if you advocate for 'no threadcrapping' policies then you are absolutely promoting market regulation, which aren't a bad thing, but the cognitive dissonance going on is astounding -- or people are just being honest. being that we're a big bunch of nerdy nerds i'm gonna have to unfortunately assume that the latter is more often the case.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33499.msg742390.msg#742390
How is that post constructive? Just wondering if you think posts Luke those are OK in a classified. A few other back and forth b4 he said he agrees the Bose headset at least feels decent. So it was the usual Bose bashing for no reason.
-
as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
No offense, but, really, really wrong. You're describing an ABSOLUTELY free market. It's a bit like saying "Unless I can sell my baby to someone else, it's not truly a free market." We can enjoy free speech, for example, without allowing people to perjure themselves in court, issue death threats, bomb threats, or proselytize for Jesus at 2 AM in a residential neighborhood. So yeah, let people post unwanted comments in a sell thread, but the comments must be germane to the sale. Some examples:
"This seller sucks, he's a liar and a cheat and sells broken keyboards! He is also HITLER!" = THREADCRAP
"I bought from him, and he sent me the item very poorly packaged. It came damaged and he wouldn't give me a price break, or allow a return." (reference link) = PRODUCTIVE COMMENT.
"I bought this keycap two years ago for $35 bucks -- $100 for a CC is way too much, don't pay it." = ?????? (should be a PM)
Moderators will have to determine what constitutes bad threadcrap from productive commentary. If it contains a personal attack, that's automatic threadcrap in my book.
We can have a free market without allowing for threats, namecalling, etc. Just because you have a right does not make it an absolute right, with no responsibilities attached. The mods are well within their rights to demand that public interactions be civil and on-topic. Someone's being a '****' or a 'douche' is not on-topic. If some people are just too childish to get it, they should find another forum, and no one shed a tear for them. I would institute a kind of karma system -- namecalling, ad hoc attacks, etc. they earn you demerits until eventually you get a temporary ban. Go through that process three times and you earned yourself a permaban. Demerits should be viewable by all, so that everything is on the level, and people can see what constitutes namecalling, insults, etc. and what does not.
It's not wrong to insist on a certain level of civility.
I don't support a pricing index as it would be a method of price control, which would be a mistake.
-
as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
No offense, but, really, really wrong. You're describing an ABSOLUTELY free market. It's a bit like saying "Unless I can sell my baby to someone else, it's not truly a free market." We can enjoy free speech, for example, without allowing people to perjure themselves in court, issue death threats, bomb threats, or proselytize for Jesus at 2 AM in a residential neighborhood. So yeah, let people post unwanted comments in a sell thread, but the comments must be germane to the sale. Some examples:
"This seller sucks, he's a liar and a cheat and sells broken keyboards! He is also HITLER!" = THREADCRAP
"I bought from him, and he sent me the item very poorly packaged. It came damaged and he wouldn't give me a price break, or allow a return." (reference link) = PRODUCTIVE COMMENT.
"I bought this keycap two years ago for $35 bucks -- $100 for a CC is way too much, don't pay it." = ?????? (should be a PM)
Moderators will have to determine what constitutes bad threadcrap from productive commentary. If it contains a personal attack, that's automatic threadcrap in my book.
We can have a free market without allowing for threats, namecalling, etc. Just because you have a right does not make it an absolute right, with no responsibilities attached. The mods are well within their rights to demand that public interactions be civil and on-topic. Someone's being a '****' or a 'douche' is not on-topic. If some people are just too childish to get it, they should find another forum, and no one shed a tear for them. I would institute a kind of karma system -- namecalling, ad hoc attacks, etc. they earn you demerits until eventually you get a temporary ban. Go through that process three times and you earned yourself a permaban. Demerits should be viewable by all, so that everything is on the level, and people can see what constitutes namecalling, insults, etc. and what does not.
It's not wrong to insist on a certain level of civility.
I don't support a pricing index as it would be a method of price control, which would be a mistake.
That.
-
That.
Thanks!
There should also be some way for demerits (but not the lists of reasons why they received them) slowly vanishes over time. This way every forum member has a history of their interactions with the moderating staff. The demerits might fade away after a set period of time (a year, I don't know) but the history will always remain. This would make it easy for any mod to step in and see the history of what transpired, the actual statements made that incurred the demerit. An example of looking at fictional user 'ArchThreadCrapper':
Date Mod Name Action Forum Link Statement
11/14/2011 - Mkawa Demerit Earned http://bleh "Those are the gayest headphones I've ever seen. You would have to pay ME to get me to take them."
12/1/2011 Hashbaz Warning http://blah "Gay people should go die. Stupid ***s!"
1/30/2012 Mkawa Demerit Earned http://bloobity "Seller is Hitler -- bought that sh!t a year ago for $35, now selling for $350? F$%-ing capitalist @ssclown!"
2/3/2012 Hashbaz Demerit - Temp Ban http://blippity "Tell MKawa to get bent!"
There it is. Everyone can read it. Mods can see that there's a pattern of problematic behavior, and so can forum users. And since there is a system in place for temporary and eventual perma-banning, no one can act surprised or shocked. This keeps Mods from overreacting knowing that people will be able to see precisely why they did what they did. The answer is more and better communication. Excuse my crappy formatting of the list. There would be a score showing you how close you were to being banned. Again, so no fake shock and users have some sort of warning on when they have crossed the line. Maybe make their score visible to other users so people can be wary of threadcrappers. I would institute some sort of positive karma system as well, so useful comments can earn an uptick. Show that under the user's name, so everyone can spot the good actors from the bad actors.
-
That.
Thanks!
There should also be some way for demerits (but not the lists of reasons why they received them) slowly vanishes over time. This way every forum member has a history of their interactions with the moderating staff. The demerits might fade away after a set period of time (a year, I don't know) but the history will always remain. This would make it easy for any mod to step in and see the history of what transpired, the actual statements made that incurred the demerit. An example of looking at fictional user 'ArchThreadCrapper':
Date Mod Name Action Forum Link Statement
11/14/2011 - Mkawa Demerit Earned http://bleh "Those are the gayest headphones I've ever seen. You would have to pay ME to get me to take them."
12/1/2011 Hashbaz Warning http://blah "Gay people should go die. Stupid ***s!"
1/30/2012 Mkawa Demerit Earned http://bloobity "Seller is Hitler -- bought that sh!t a year ago for $35, now selling for $350? F$%-ing capitalist @ssclown!"
2/3/2012 Hashbaz Demerit - Temp Ban http://blippity "Tell MKawa to get bent!"
There it is. Everyone can read it. Mods can see that there's a pattern of problematic behavior, and so can forum users. And since there is a system in place for temporary and eventual perma-banning, no one can act surprised or shocked. This keeps Mods from overreacting knowing that people will be able to see precisely why they did what they did. The answer is more and better communication. Excuse my crappy formatting of the list. There would be a score showing you how close you were to being banned. Again, so no fake shock and users have some sort of warning on when they have crossed the line. Maybe make their score visible to other users so people can be wary of threadcrappers. I would institute some sort of positive karma system as well, so useful comments can earn an uptick. Show that under the user's name, so everyone can spot the good actors from the bad actors.
This is a great gif!
the idea is good too
-
Thanks for the feedback.
I've been looking for a Simple Machines forum version of this idea, which I've seen elsewhere. I found one, but it didn't really have a lot of features:
http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Warning
It does allow, however, for something less upsetting than a ban -- if a user receives too many warning points, their posts could be approved by a moderator before posting.
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71992 -- This is vBulletin's Advanced Warning System (AWS). Some features.
In that case, this warning system, allows you to issue a warning to the member who commited the offence. The warning has some points associated with it, as well as a period over which it is valid. When a member gathers enough points, he is banned from your forums, for a predefined period of time. That's mostly it, but below, you can find a short list of features:
Full warning system with:
==================================================================================================
- post- and non-post-related warnings
- hierarchical warning schema
- hidden or real warners
- customizable maximum warning points
- automatically bans members who reached the maximum warning points
- customizable ban days
- customizable ban user group and permanent ban user group
- customizable restore user group, where users are restored after they get unbanned
- customizable option for who can see the warning level of the members
- automatically issued warnings for posts which contain censored words
- automatically issued warnings for private messages which contain censored words
- supports incremental banning periods
- supports multiple warnings for the same post
- warned members are notified either by Private Message or e-mail when they are warned and when one of the warnings they have received is either deleted or expired
- maintains historical listings of issued warnings (even if deleted or expired)
- customizable warning types
- each warning type has predefined warning points associated with it
- each warning type has predefined maturity period, after which it is automatically deleted
- reports for admin, mods and members
- cron job included to automatically remove matured warnings
- uses vBulletin's cron job, to automatically unban banned users
- all options are setable in your AdminCP
- user warning points and number of bans viewable in your AdminCP User Manager.
- statistics show warning per type, warnings per warner, bans per user.
- Allows you to warn a user from your AdminCP/User Manager.
- Large "Warn" sign, in posts which have received a warning, for mods, supermods and admins, to easily distinguish those posts.
- Ability to remove user's avatar, signature or usage of the Private Messaging system, depending on the warning points he has collected.
- Supports non-standard admins, supermods and mods user groups.
- Allows you to save a copy of the warning send to the warned user, in a predefined forum.
- Allows you to issue "Alerts" (warnings without warning points, for first-time offenders)
- Allows you to add private or public notes for a user, either post-specific or not. Notes appear in the postbit, above each user's message.
==================================================================================================
That's the system I think would really work -- make it easier for mod, users, everyone to see the writing on the wall, full transparency.
-
The full gif is better!
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/7666/banned20permabanned.gif)
-
I like 21 Jumpstreet. It's that scene where Officer Hanson slaps Kenny Weckerly.
-
I like 21 Jumpstreet. It's that scene where Officer Hanson slaps Kenny Weckerly.
Oh god yes!
We also got forced to watch The Crucible in my english GCSE class, the only part of it I remember was Reverend Paris giving Abigail the most epic *****slap!
-
wow, i barely remember jonny depp, robin givens, the fat white guy and the mullet haired asian guy.(he did have a mullet right?) ah 21 jump street such a good multiracial show, i didn't even notice it was multiracial, which is good, until years later, whats the only other show that was as multiracial during the 80's? power rangers? but that's the early 90's (and that was really the american slice of life parts)
-
as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
No offense, but, really, really wrong. You're describing an ABSOLUTELY free market.
yes, i certainly am, which is what many other members seem to advocate for (though i clearly do not). i don't normally use the 'absolutely' qualifier but i also often forget other people have restrictive definitions of what constitutes a free market. if there are restrictions, then it is not truly free, just as speech in america is not truly free by your examples. that said, curtailing 'freedom' is not always a bad thing when organization is required in a hierarchical system... besides arguing about freedom on a privately controlled message board is... silly :P
i like the idea of a props system more than a demerits system... it encourages more positivity and allows the members to draw attention to people who are helpful, creative, funny, or whatever while leaving the moderators to deal with posts that detract from the topic at hand or are clearly flames.
and most of the things you detailed in your later post just seem excessive. i'd rather see a shift in member participation and contributions than set up a system of privileges to be removed.
-
as far as a free market goes... GH is not a free market if you cannot say anything you want in somebody's thread.
No offense, but, really, really wrong. You're describing an ABSOLUTELY free market.
yes, i certainly am, which is what many other members seem to advocate for (though i clearly do not). i don't normally use the 'absolutely' qualifier but i also often forget other people have restrictive definitions of what constitutes a free market.
'Restrictive definition of what constitutes a free market'? Yes, these concepts should be restrained by the realities of human interaction. Again, you can have a free market (not absolutely free) without opening the doors completely to the most negative expressions of that freedom. Yes, we have free speech in America, but no so free that I can make death-threats or bomb threats. As they drag those kinds of people away in hand-cuffs they probably scream, "I was only expressing my right to free speech!" and only an idiot would agree that their speech was protected by the Constitution. Does that mean Americans don't have free speech, because they are not allowed to make bomb threats? No, it doesn't -- it just means that sensible restrictions of free speech are acceptable.
if there are restrictions, then it is not truly free, just as speech in america is not truly free by your examples.
Arguing semantics with me is probably a mistake (this libertarian is still waiting to be 'eaten for breakfast', by the way). Speech in America is not absolutely free, because that would be incredibly stupid, as my examples have proven to every rational person. Speech in America is as free as it should be. The trick, the trouble, is determining where your rights begin and where mine end.
To switch back to economic freedom (a 'free market') I would say that the mods would have the right to ban someone for egregiously fraudulent behavior. If a seller engages in fraudulent conduct (photos that hide defects from products, etc.) then they would have the right to intervene. Price gouging is not fraudulent conduct, it's just bad conduct, conduct that can and should be handled by PMs between members, or just common sense.
that said, curtailing 'freedom' is not always a bad thing when organization is required in a hierarchical system... besides arguing about freedom on a privately controlled message board is... silly :P
Ok, so you agree with me, but now think discussing free markets and their limitations is 'silly' (inferring that I am silly for taking them seriously) then why participate in them at all? I do it because I have a deep character flaw that forces me (when confronted by senseless socialistic statements) to grind those arguments into powder. "To see stupid ideas driven before me, to hear the lamentations of their proponents, that is best in life." It's silly, I know.
i like the idea of a props system more than a demerits system... it encourages more positivity and allows the members to draw attention to people who are helpful, creative, funny, or whatever while leaving the moderators to deal with posts that detract from the topic at hand or are clearly flames.
I would like to see a karma or 'props' system as well, with some limitations. Carrots for users, sticks for mods. The karma/props system should also show which specific statements were responsible for the up-rate. Again, it shows people what constitutes good behavior, so they can emulate it.
and most of the things you detailed in your later post just seem excessive. i'd rather see a shift in member participation and contributions than set up a system of privileges to be removed.
All the features together might seem excessive, but that's for owners to decide and discover; not all would have to be implemented. Having been on a few forums and even being 'warned' a few times, I think the problem with banning is that it only makes defiance worse, and hurts the community at large because they wonder if the rules were enforced fairly. A warning system lets people know by degrees, and reduces the "Martyrdom by Banishment" phenomena. By showing the warnings, everyone is shown what actually happened, and how that user was warned, warned again, and then finally banned. A more granular system would be better -- even a temporary ban seriously bruises the ego. Notice in the gif I posted -- banning only makes the user more defiant in some cases, requiring a followup b!tchslap permaban. A public warning system kills all the gossip, and provides examples of what constitutes unacceptable behavior for both users and mods.
I completely think that sell threads should be open for free commenting, but that the comments should meet a certain minimum criteria for politeness and relevance. That is not too much to ask.
-
The mods have been actively discussing classifieds policy over the past couple of days. It's true that we've been unclear and inconsistent at times; we're working on it. :)
charge them! every wts/wtt needs moderator approval
a $2 paypal posting fee
and then 5% to 10% of all profits afterwards will again go to paypal, if not, then they are banned from making/requesting another wts/wtt thread and Marked
GH isn't a free no fee ebay! but it's been used as such, and it seems that we're just getting more mods and more admins, just so that they can monitor the selling forum.
CHARGE ppl!
Uhmmmmmmm yeaaaaaaaa, **** that. I'd move to another site
No, it would just move all transactions to PMs and there'd just be a forum full of WTB threads.
oh even better, less junk to deal with,
charge 2$ paypal fee to list a wtb
I don't think you understand how it would work, so many sales are via PM already and the fee would only push more sales to PM.
-
good, then that's less for the mods to do, and when a "pm" transaction goes sour, no one to blame but the two parties.
-
There is no one else to blame no matter how the sale happens.
-
Seriously guys.
Exactly. So, perhaps, when the situation calms down, things will be more clear. All this drama makes me sick. We just need to get along, not fight... :/
This site is about keyboards, not capitalism or commercialism, not about the Terms of Service, not about whether we should threadcrap or not. This site is for keyboards.
I am here in a community to help others, enjoy myself and maybe buy a few things here or there (or trade for them ). When you live in a real life community, do you get told not to make money or what you should do with what is yours? Do you get told not to walk in the market and have ambient conversations with your friends? Just food for thought, please don't pick me apart and answer my questions. They are rhetorical.
-
What has that got to do with this?
-
Quit complaining. Buy what you want. Sell what you wish. This site is for keyboards, not worrying about who's making money and who isn't.
-
Quit complaining. Buy what you want. Sell what you wish. This site is for keyboards, not worrying about who's making money and who isn't.
Well said.
-
A million times that Smallfry, there's a few of us that have always said it, but the point never seems to get across.
Listen to the Smallfry! :D
-
[jesus h christ what do you do]
please stop arguing with me even when you admit we're talking about the same thing then.
nothing i was talking about was directed at you or your boring political/economic opinions; it's kind of obnoxious how much time you spend responding to my stupid glib troll posts as if i was physically standing in front of you threatening your freedom to price gouge people and not give a **** about the community of people that are trying to have FUN with this hobby (because **** all that hippie garbage, i want my rich boy toys, amirite).
take this as a 'forfeit' of some kind if you need to, because i really don't want to spend my time in 'discussions' that you try to start and then run into the ground with the same boring rhetoric that you know i am not going to agree with you on. i don't know you, and i don't really like the person you present yourself to be on this forum, and i don't owe you anything for all the time you spend trying to pick apart what i'm saying.
-
There are two types of Geekhackers.
Those who want to be left alone, and those who, unfortunately, simply will not leave them alone.
-
There are two types of Geekhackers.
Those who have CC's, and those who, unfortunately, do not.
FTFY
-
what if the profit margin is capped at a certain percentage? like double the cost you bought it for? does tht still piss people off a heck load
-
Those of us who frown upon "flipping" of keyboards and their accessories will always hate it when someone buys something cheap, then turns around and quickly sells it for profit. You're making money off the people you're supposed to be helping in this hobby.
Those who have a strong desire to acquire rare or "in demand" items will always be willing to pay more than they should for them. Even if they are aware of the "fair value" of the item. When someone has something they don't, and they desire it, they will pay whatever it costs to obtain it.
These two factions co-exist here at Geekhack. Mostly peacefully. The former with loud voices, trying to stick up for the "poor college student" or starving artist. The latter quietly making deals through PMs, etc. That's how it has been, and will continue to be. We need the "non profit" types so that there is balance kept in the community, and this forum doesn't turn into solely a marketplace where everything is sold to the highest bidder. We need the "keyboard envy" types to keep the hobby fresh and interesting. Their dollars drive innovation.
To be fair, I have been (and continue to be) a bit of both here. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
/thread
-
There are two types of Geekhackers.
Those who have CC's, and those who, unfortunately, do not.
FTFY
Hey, if GHers who don't have clickclacks don't like it, they can leave.
Sorry but I don't feel bad for those people...at all. You guys act as if it's your "right" to be able to own a freaking fancy piece of plastic. Who cares? Vote with your dollar and don't buy it. That's what I do.
-
There are three types of Geekhackers.
Those who have CC's, and those who, unfortunately, do not. and those who think they are tacky piece of plastic so dont want one.
FTFY
FTFY :)
-
[sth rambling rant]
... yeah, ok.
what if the profit margin is capped at a certain percentage? like double the cost you bought it for? does tht still piss people off a heck load
By capping profits, you would just be acquiescing to the idea that making a profit off this hobby is morally wrong. Where we draw the line doesn't matter if drawing such a line would hurt the hobby -- and it would hurt the hobby. Besides, price controls would just make people go elsewhere, where they can sell for whatever price they prefer -- or they will go to PMs. Or eBay.
jdcarpe -- I have no problem with people who donate or are otherwise altruistic being in the forum, or the hobby. That's great -- but charity loses its meaning when it is enforced.