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geekhack Projects => Making Stuff Together! => Topic started by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 February 2013, 14:49:06

Title: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 February 2013, 14:49:06: ...I measured out and made my own. Thanks for the idea, Korea, I've always been irritated by the wobbly switches in my keypad. Our long-time tenant at work does plexi/plastic manufacturing and has a vinyl plotter, so we spent a few minutes this morning. Third version fits great on two switches, so we made a hundred or so for me to test fit in my Race tonight.

(http://i.imgur.com/y4XhviQ.jpeg)

Next project is a Race case! :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: SmallFry on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:32:29: Looks nice, they look thicker than the original stickers. I have the file for the original stickers off of KBD around here somewhere... I'll have to dig it up.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: eth0s on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:40:48: Holy crap this is awesome! Can you make some for me? Can you do them in black? Can I send you the money now?
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: Jocelyn on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:42:10: Quote from: eth0s on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:40:48
Holy crap this is awesome! Can you make some for me? Can you do them in black? Can I send you the money now?

ROFL! I have to admit they do look nice :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: eth0s on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:56:28: Quote from: Jocelyn on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:42:10
Quote from: eth0s on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:40:48
Holy crap this is awesome! Can you make some for me? Can you do them in black? Can I send you the money now?

ROFL! I have to admit they do look nice :)

I forgot to add, G*D Bless Canadian Ingenuity.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: keymaster on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:00:34: Could someone enlighten me on the point of these stickers?
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: eth0s on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:10:14: Quote from: keymaster on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:00:34
Could someone enlighten me on the point of these stickers?

Who cares about the point! They are kewl.

JK, in all seriousness, they are supposed to make the top of any Cherry MX switch "less wobbly", and they are also supposed to keep dust out of the switch. Either proposition is slightly dubious to me however, since MX switches work fine without the stickers. Also, as somebody else pointed out in a different thread, you would need to have a fan blowing directly on the switches before you would have to worry about dust getting in. As for correcting the wobble problem, I don't know, b/c I've never tried them. Also, I dunno about MX "wobble", but I will say MX switches "wiggle" a bit. Is the "wiggle" a fatal flaw? Umm, no. So do you need these stickers? Again, no. So why do I want them? B/c they are kewl, and b/c they are popular in Korea, and b/c I've never tried them, so I want them.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:11:31: They're a bit more basic than the KBD-Mania ones, as I didn't see any significant reason for a few of their cutouts. Don't need the cutouts for the plate-mount switch release tabs, as the tabs can still move in just fine. The "dimple" at the top of the KBD ones would just make them more difficult to keep square during install, and there's no contact under the dimple anyways, so I omitted it.

Any colour is available, there's a pile of vinyl rolls just hanging out. I'll measure the thickness with my micrometer shortly, but there's no force necessary to assemble the switch housing (ie: too thick) and the wobble in my test housings is gone.

Smallfry: I saw a post of yours last night where you said you had the drawing, but I was already halfway done measuring and making my drawing. Would be nice to see it to compare my measurements! :)

I wasn't looking to counterfeit the originals or affect any sellers (ie: Sherryton, when he gets his site back up). I'm a mechanic by day and electrical engineer/repair dude by night/weekends, and I prefer to make my own stuff when I can. If tonight's test goes well (and if I figure out what to lube my Reds with), I'll see if my plastic guy wants to run some more (he DID laugh at me when I asked for only 100). :)

edit: Just mic'd the vinyl at 0.004", so 0.10mm thick. :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 February 2013, 16:15:41: eth0s: The ergo-clears in my 10-key pad wobble like mad, it's rather irritating to use because of it. I didn't want to repeat that performance when I do some ghetto-greens (with clear springs) or more ergo-clears. :)

Quote from: eth0s on Wed, 13 February 2013, 15:56:28
I forgot to add, G*D Bless Canadian Ingenuity.
:cool: I may not have worked on the Avro Arrow, but my gf's grandfather did! Stay tuned for her custom caps!
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: danielucf on Wed, 13 February 2013, 18:36:47: I always thought the switch stickers I received were not as thick as they could be, if yours are thicker then I would like to buy some if you are willing to sell some :D
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 February 2013, 19:46:29: Mine could be a c-hair thicker than they are now, but vinyl stock is pretty standard, and I'd rather not stress the switch clips if a switch is near tolerance. Could also possibly be that the off-shore vinyl is a c-hair thinner? I only get a small bit of rotational wiggle if I try, the housings feel quite solid in the axes that matter to us. :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 13 February 2013, 22:46:05: Decided to attack my atrocious keypad first, as it has very noticeable wobble. I just uploaded a video comparing stickered and non, and yes the stickered switch was just as bad as the others before.

(http://i.imgur.com/G0VFmhv.png)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 14 February 2013, 01:29:40: Done my ergo-clear keypad. Stickers go on easily and made a very noticeable difference compared to un-stickered switches in my hand.

(http://i.imgur.com/wBMOVYO.jpg)

Also added a small dab of hot glue to the PCB to hold the switch bottom steady (Adesso keypad has oversized locating holes). Feels solid! Completely changed my perception of ergo-clears. :)

Side note: words cannot describe how glorious my new Hakko 808 desoldering gun works. :D
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: netdevil on Thu, 14 February 2013, 07:42:08: I missed the sticker gb too so this is great :D
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: durainello on Thu, 14 February 2013, 07:58:27: Care to do a video on the installation process.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 14 February 2013, 09:06:43: Can post install video in the next few days. Need gf to hold camera for that one, but her laptop would melt if I tried to install Handbrake. Would make for a funny screenshot of its conversion time though!
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 14 February 2013, 12:54:44: Just asked about colours, and his stock is quite impressive. Yellow, light purple, regular purple, pink, matte black, gloss black, white, gold fleck, silver fleck, teal, a few blues, a few reds, etc. His supplier's colour sheet has a large variety, but not all may be available immediately, and he has a MOQ for each to deal with.

Going to test on the plate mounted switches in my Leopold in the next couple days, make sure that the plate release tabs aren't affected by the lack of cutouts.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 14 February 2013, 14:00:53: ^You need to get your friend to make a ton of these stickers and then sell them to GHers....or do a group buy or something. Everyone is foaming at the mouth to get some.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 14 February 2013, 15:05:17: Plan is to have some standard colours ready to go, and others available with 1 day lead time. Made in Canada by a family business located at my family's business!

Thanks for the interest and positive feedback so far! :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: Acetrak on Thu, 14 February 2013, 15:14:06: Quote from: AKIMbO on Thu, 14 February 2013, 14:00:53
Everyone is foaming at the mouth to get some.
That's an understatement lol

Somebody should do a comparison of Canadian ones vs. Korean ones!

I agree with you about thickness and not wanting to break any switches or anything though
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: The_Beast on Thu, 14 February 2013, 15:15:15: Quote from: AKIMbO on Thu, 14 February 2013, 14:00:53
^You need to get your friend to make a ton of these stickers and then sell them to GHers....or do a group buy or something. Everyone is foaming at the mouth to get some.

international shipping from Canada might be a boner killer
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: AKIMbO on Thu, 14 February 2013, 15:20:11: Send them to an american for further distribution?
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 14 February 2013, 15:24:18: Yeah, not looking forward to Canada Post charges. Current design has 120 stickers as not much bigger than a post card, hopefully I don't have to increase the size.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Fri, 15 February 2013, 02:15:50: Well, tested with two plates: Leopold FC200R and Poker plate (Beast I think, hair thinner than Leopold). No perceptible increase in effort required to remove stickered switches from plates. :)

edit: NOT a Beast plate! :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: The_Beast on Fri, 15 February 2013, 02:24:26: Quote from: RickyJ on Fri, 15 February 2013, 02:15:50
Well, tested with two plates: Leopold FC200R and Poker plate (Beast I think, hair thinner than Leopold). No perceptible increase in effort required to remove stickered switches from plates. :)

If it's heavy and poker sized, it should be one of mine ^____^
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Fri, 15 February 2013, 02:32:14: I bought one of rknize's plated Pokers, so I was sure it was your plate! :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Fri, 15 February 2013, 16:20:15: Had another idea, so I had a quick proto done. This version will become a full plate vinyl to take up the slight play in this Poker plate. Tougher to align a whole sheet during install, but I'll find out when I get the full sheet made. For standard thickness plates, was thinking of going around existing installed switches to change colour of the plate and provide some dampening to plate resonance.

(http://i.imgur.com/182zAZO.jpg)
Title: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: Gupgup on Fri, 15 February 2013, 16:49:34: Quote from: RickyJ on Fri, 15 February 2013, 16:20:15
Had another idea, so I had a quick proto done. This version will become a full plate vinyl to take up the slight play in this Poker plate. Tougher to align a whole sheet during install, but I'll find out when I get the full sheet made. For standard thickness plates, was thinking of going around existing installed switches to change colour of the plate and provide some dampening to plate resonance.

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/182zAZO.jpg)

I like it!
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 16 February 2013, 16:45:41: Quote from: durainello on Thu, 14 February 2013, 07:58:27
Care to do a video on the installation process.

:)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 16 February 2013, 19:03:01: A blue vinyl sheet with switch hole cutouts to cover the whole sheet should definitely change the way a plate-mounted switch feels when bottoming out. The hard part is laying it down so that all the cutouts are perfectly aligned with the plate's holes.

When you installed that one prototype, did the switch have any problems locking into the plate? The switches has these two little plastic spring clips on the front and back that depend on the plate's thickness to lock.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: eyesmiles on Sat, 16 February 2013, 19:48:17: Quote from: RickyJ on Thu, 14 February 2013, 12:54:44
Just asked about colours, and his stock is quite impressive. Yellow, light purple, regular purple, pink, matte black, gloss black, white, gold fleck, silver fleck, teal, a few blues, a few reds, etc. His supplier's colour sheet has a large variety, but not all may be available immediately, and he has a MOQ for each to deal with.

I had to read it again. Did I just see 2 possible choices of purple in that list. ;D
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:22:27: WFD: That sticker was on the (currently unknown origin) plate in my Poker, which is a bit thinner than "standard" production plates, and so had some play already. There was absolutely no problem getting the switch to lock in on that plate with the vinyl. I have a couple more to test on the standard plate in my Leopold, but I'd be happily surprised if the switches snapped in as easily, hence my plan of just doing a surround-style vinyl for those plates. I may get lucky though, as the vinyl is only 0.004" thick.

Installation of the plate vinyl would be very finicky, but I do have a few ideas for that. Water method would require a bare plate, but would make lining it up hella easier. :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:23:56: Quote from: eyesmiles on Sat, 16 February 2013, 19:48:17
I had to read it again. Did I just see 2 possible choices of purple in that list. ;D

I still have to measure the thickness of the purple vinyls that are in stock, but there's at least two rolls sitting there! I'd rock purple. :)

I have one set ready to mail to Harrison in Vancouver, who will compare them to the Korean ones he has from the GB. Can't wait! :)
Title: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: jdcarpe on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:31:41: RickyJ, I'm pretty sure the plate in that photo is a Vortex Poker plate from iMav's DIY GB. I don't have a micrometer to measure the thickness, but just eyeballing both the Vortex plate and the Beast plate, the Vortex appears to be just a bit thinner.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:46:02: Quote from: jdcarpe on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:31:41
RickyJ, I'm pretty sure the plate in that photo is a Vortex Poker plate from iMav's DIY GB. I don't have a micrometer to measure the thickness, but just eyeballing both the Vortex plate and the Beast plate, the Vortex appears to be just a bit thinner.

I think you're right, mine doesn't have the cutouts for removing the upper switch housing. I'll have to ask rknize which one he used.

Sorry Beast-man, removing references! :)
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:49:28: Dido what jdcarpe said. It's definitely not beast's poker plate, because that black plate does not support plate-mounted cherry stabs (only PCB-mounted), and the switches holes do not have cutouts for removable switches.

Also, standard stock plates are around 0.060" thick. Beast's poker plate is thicker, it's standard 1/16" steel, which is 0.0625". This barely clears the costar stabilizer tolerances. So in other words, your vinyl stickers might not actually work on beast's plate since they're thicker than that black on you have in the pic.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Sat, 16 February 2013, 20:59:08: Good to know! I had glazed over Poker stuff before, as I had thought I needed a dedicated function row, so now I have to play catch-up!
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Tue, 19 February 2013, 13:48:59: Finally had some time last night to work on my Race:

(http://i.imgur.com/zGF8JlF.jpg)

And lubed, but have to clean off the excess from the springs (stem hydrolocking in base):

(http://i.imgur.com/SkuQMOW.jpg)

4-mil greens in stock:

(http://i.imgur.com/vyn1Kr2.jpg)

4-mil blues in stock:

(http://i.imgur.com/V4f70xE.jpg)

Not quite "50 Shades of Grey"

(http://i.imgur.com/V6dHDEi.jpg)

Getting a catalog soon from the supplier of 4-mil, should be lots of colours to choose from!
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 20 February 2013, 01:00:07: Should have done a contrasting colour for my full board test, oh well! Here comes the Red Army!

(http://i.imgur.com/jMbLW39.jpg)

Also:
- clipped stabilizers, and put vinyl center scraps under the sliders to protect the PCB traces
- lubricated the switch sliders and guides with dry teflon (spray and paint brush), and light brushing of teflon grease (model shop stuff, Labelle 106) in the ends of the springs

Would like to get some Labelle 134 (dry teflon powder in a squeeze tube with needle applicator) to try next time. This board is smoooooooooth. :cool:

edit: Just put my Leopold back in its box, and the keys are way wobblier than this Race's. Good sign! :cool:
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 27 February 2013, 00:48:56: For the few still following... Vortex's Poker plate is 0.056" thick, Cherry's spec is 0.060" so the switches wobble. Enter the full plate shim...

(http://i.imgur.com/SCLZC43.jpg)

Visible between the keys!

(http://i.imgur.com/8hDBVlL.jpg)

Also: Hard to see against the nice green, but purple switch stickers are there too. Barney-board!
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: WhiteFireDragon on Wed, 27 February 2013, 01:38:36: But typically all of our custom plate are 16 guage, so 0.625" thick. And at this thickness, costar stabilizers already has problems fitting. I wish this sheet can magically subtract thickness instead.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Wed, 27 February 2013, 03:04:13: I agree. :( This style was just my fix for the thin Vortex plate though. I laid it down uncut and went at it by hand with my small x-acto knife. Getting it all to line up precisely would be a *****. We do have ideas for aligning and laying down pre-cut vinyl (ie: to clear your nice plates), but I'd have to see how much room there is between switches, and then make the drawing in Corel for the cutter to read.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: harrison on Thu, 28 February 2013, 08:45:00: Quote from: RickyJ on Wed, 20 February 2013, 01:00:07
Also:
- clipped stabilizers, and put vinyl center scraps under the sliders to protect the PCB traces
- lubricated the switch sliders and guides with dry teflon (spray and paint brush), and light brushing of teflon grease (model shop stuff, Labelle 106) in the ends of the springs

Would like to get some Labelle 134 (dry teflon powder in a squeeze tube with needle applicator) to try next time. This board is smoooooooooth. :cool:

edit: Just put my Leopold back in its box, and the keys are way wobblier than this Race's. Good sign! :cool:

what's your feedback on the clipped stabilizers?

oh, and my crosspost:

Quote from: harrison on Thu, 28 February 2013, 08:40:37
Rick, that's a great video! I apologize for not being able to have gotten around to doing anything with the beta stickers yet... I've honestly not even touched my computer at home in 5 days now I've been so busy.

What I can say, is that comparing these to other stickers, the tolerances are MUCH tighter. Sure, you don't get that 'outline' around your switch, since the sticker isn't quite as large, but that's because they fit better. If anything, I find them easier to install. I'll get some comparison pictures this weekend.

were the samples 2mil or 4mil?
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Thu, 28 February 2013, 14:12:22: Thanks for the feedback Harrison, looking forward to hearing more! :)

Clipped PCB stabs seem crisper, and the vinyl maintains that while protecting the traces.

The vinyl measures 4mil, but that's including the adhesive layer. Vinyl is advertised by only the vinyl thickness, you have to look in datasheets for the adhesive layer thickness. I've tried cast vinyl, and it's noticeably more compliant ("flimsy") than equal thickness calendered which I'm using. I was thinking about extending the stickers to show more, but I really don't want them to collect dust/hair.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: mashby on Thu, 28 February 2013, 17:17:01: Loving the idea of the vinyl wrap on plates, assuming there's enough room for it. Wouldn't it be easier to apply a whole sheet and then cut out the holes with an Exacto/razor blade?
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Fri, 01 March 2013, 01:31:57: Yes, but would be a nightmare with the custom plates here from WFD/Beast due to the huge number of small cuts. If you cut larger to clear switches you'll have to use a metal ruler/guide, which isn't the end of the world.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: mashby on Fri, 01 March 2013, 08:23:43: Quote from: RickyJ on Fri, 01 March 2013, 01:31:57
Yes, but would be a nightmare with the custom plates here from WFD/Beast due to the huge number of small cuts. If you cut larger to clear switches you'll have to use a metal ruler/guide, which isn't the end of the world.

Since it looks like adding thickness to the Beast's plate with a vinyl layer doesn't appear to be a good idea, I was thinking that you could make a rough cut to clear the hole and then use the bottom of a switch as a template to trim the rest.

Yeah, it's still a tedious process and probably not worth it for most folks.
Title: Re: Missed out on sticker GB, so....
Post by: RickyJ on Fri, 01 March 2013, 16:14:28: If it was easy, everyone would do it. ;) I agree with using switches as templates, I was just trying to think of a way to lay one down with switches still installed. :)