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geekhack Community => Keyboard Keycaps => Topic started by: zoolzoo on Mon, 25 February 2013, 05:54:31

Title: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 25 February 2013, 05:54:31: So, on Feng's Ebay store there are two "KBC" thick PBT dyesub sets...one blue and one grey. I actually own the grey one and I have to say its my favorite set right now.

Mean while, most people on GH seem to refer to Imsto's sets which to me look identical, even down to color. Is there any difference between them or are they pretty much interchangeable?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Mon, 25 February 2013, 10:34:02: People call them imsto because they were the first supplier of those kind of keycap. Those PBT thick Cherry profile set is all same thing, from same factory.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: keymaster on Mon, 25 February 2013, 10:35:39: I think they're interchangeable, except for one thing that I've noticed. Feng's set has a 'Control' key while some others have 'Ctrl'.

Edit: I have the blue set.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: alaricljs on Mon, 25 February 2013, 10:38:38: Well, Imsto has generally offered 2 completely different legend sets. His original and a Cherry replica. Also Imsto has done Hangul and Cyrillic, and I believe he'll do anything you want for the right price :)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 25 February 2013, 11:16:23: got it... thanks guys.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: caleula on Mon, 25 February 2013, 23:16:50: Sorry to butt in, but any idea how much feng charges forum members for these sets?

He states that it's a lower price than on eBay, but seems too busy to reply.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Jocelyn on Mon, 25 February 2013, 23:24:46: Blanks are $75 on his eBay and he said he'd sell them to people here for $70, so you're probably looking at a similar difference in price.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: evolyn on Fri, 01 March 2013, 03:21:10: ithink there sold out completly or em'iwrong ?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: feng on Fri, 01 March 2013, 11:21:36: imsto is a member of KBC community, and those thick keycaps on my ebay are from imsto. I put KBC as the brand's name is because it's actually a brand name. :)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Tarzan on Sat, 09 March 2013, 20:58:11: A bit of an off-topic question, but has anyone put those "thick" Gray PBT caps on a CM Storm Trigger board? I'm curious about the contrast or lack thereof for the gray of the keycaps and the gray "rubberized" coating on the CM board. Pics?

I'm debating between the side-printed black keycaps and the gray ones, figure the stock keycaps are pretty similar in look to the side-printed ones, but no idea how the gray caps would look. All the pictures I've seen show them on a black Ducky or Filco.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 09 March 2013, 21:41:42: I recall seeing someone with that set up, but damned if I can find the pictures now. Probably in either the add to your keyboard or in the mail today thread somewhere.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Tarzan on Sat, 09 March 2013, 23:25:28: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 09 March 2013, 21:41:42
I recall seeing someone with that set up, but damned if I can find the pictures now. Probably in either the add to your keyboard or in the mail today thread somewhere.

I found some pics of PBT keycaps on a CM board, but I can't actually tell if the PBT keys are gray (like the ones currently available) or a coffee-and-cream color scheme.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1102940/cm-storm-quick-fire-rapid/640
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 10 March 2013, 11:27:40: Those are first sets that were available, with classic style 2tone. The modifiers are a light grey, much lighter than the all grey sets sold later/now.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Lunartuna on Sun, 10 March 2013, 11:44:20: While were asking questions about these keycaps...

I understand they are cherry profile.

When you put cherry profile keycaps on a board that came with OEM profile keycaps, do they create more of a gap between the bottom of the keycap and where your keyboard case begins?

Here:

(http://i.imgur.com/piju15k.jpg)

?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 10 March 2013, 11:59:18: Not with Cherry profile, though that is sometimes a problem with caps from SP.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Lunartuna on Sun, 10 March 2013, 12:07:34: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 10 March 2013, 11:59:18
Not with Cherry profile, though that is sometimes a problem with caps from SP.

Good to know, thanks.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 10 March 2013, 13:16:53: i have thick grey imstos on a cm qfr. will upload pics in a second.
Title: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: mkawa on Sun, 10 March 2013, 13:18:07: tada
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 10 March 2013, 17:48:26: Quote from: mkawa on Sun, 10 March 2013, 13:18:07
tada

Do the titanium spacebars do well with wear?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: deSheol on Mon, 11 March 2013, 07:59:46: I remember someone posted a pic of a QFR with thick grey imsto pbt.

EDIT: TADA

(http://i.imgur.com/lkuSE.jpg?1)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Tarzan on Mon, 11 March 2013, 08:34:52: Quote from: deSheol on Mon, 11 March 2013, 07:59:46
I remember someone posted a pic of a QFR with thick grey imsto pbt.

EDIT: TADA

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/lkuSE.jpg?1)

Thanks for the pics!

I have a slightly different CM model, still has a gray top surface, but the rest of the case is black (or possibly very dark gray...).

[attach=1]

I think the gray PBT would look good, better than a pure white set. I'm torn between this set and holding out for the "ninja" or stealth side-printed keycaps, the blank top surface on those makes for a very clean keyboard appearance.

[Filco version - no word when CM version will be available]
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: deSheol on Mon, 11 March 2013, 08:38:19: I think the quality would be much better than the stock ninja keycaps.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: mkawa on Mon, 11 March 2013, 11:50:46: Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 10 March 2013, 17:48:26
Quote from: mkawa on Sun, 10 March 2013, 13:18:07
tada

Do the titanium spacebars do well with wear?
absolutely. they don't wear at all, basically. a quick wipe with a cloth and it's shiny as all get out. oh and the feels..
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:34:08: My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

(http://i.imgur.com/2PYfhpx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/TU1OyNA.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7RVDsUR.jpg)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Jocelyn on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:36:27: Quote from: zoolzoo on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:34:08
My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng...

Looks lovely!!!
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: esoomenona on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:36:57: Really nice, zoolzoo. I wish they would make winkeyless setup.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Photekq on Mon, 11 March 2013, 20:18:40: Same caps as me zool. I love them.

(http://i.imgur.com/CJLXSGM.jpg)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 11 March 2013, 20:41:19: aw yah lookin good
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: garyd9 on Mon, 11 March 2013, 21:10:53: Quote from: zoolzoo on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:34:08
My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng..
Are you able to see the CAPS LOCK indicator through the thick PBT cap? (Also, I'm curious what you're using for a scroll lock key...)

Thanks
Gary
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: zoolzoo on Mon, 11 March 2013, 21:51:48: Quote from: garyd9 on Mon, 11 March 2013, 21:10:53
Quote from: zoolzoo on Mon, 11 March 2013, 19:34:08
My QFR with thick grey PBT from Feng..
Are you able to see the CAPS LOCK indicator through the thick PBT cap? (Also, I'm curious what you're using for a scroll lock key...)

Thanks
Gary

No you cant see the led through the cap at all...though you can see it reflect under the cap if you look. To me its no biggie. The scroll lock is the GH Feb key from Techkeys.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Moosecraft on Fri, 15 March 2013, 12:06:44: Where can one go to find these thick blank sets?
Title: Re: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Jocelyn on Fri, 15 March 2013, 12:08:57: Quote from: Moosecraft on Fri, 15 March 2013, 12:06:44
Where can one go to find these thick blank sets?

Buy them from Feng via eBay or PM him (think he has gray blanks, blue with black legends, and gray with black legends) or order directly from Imsto directly if Feng doesn't have what you want.

Feng stuffs
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Gray-Dyesub-Thick-PBT-Cherry-MX-Key-Caps-105-keys-included-/330861599475?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Blue-Dyesub-Thick-PBT-Cherry-MX-Key-Caps-105-keys-included-/330758846871?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4d02c37997

Imsto stuffs - http://aikb.taobao.com/
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Moosecraft on Fri, 15 March 2013, 19:31:42: I can't seem to find any white thick blank ones, sadface.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: SkyCorrigan on Wed, 17 July 2013, 21:43:55: Do the kbc thick pbt sets sold by feng on ebay pose any problems on a filco majestouch 2? I really want them but would like some confirmation. Maybe some pics?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Wed, 17 July 2013, 22:34:21: Many have reported the stabilizers can grind on inside of caps on costar keyboards since they were designed with OEM high keycaps not Cherry profile in mind.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Danule on Thu, 18 July 2013, 07:07:42: I didn't find any grinding at all, you just have to make sure you install the stabalizer guide in the same direction as it was on the original key.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: SkyCorrigan on Sun, 21 July 2013, 00:08:08: Quote from: Danule on Thu, 18 July 2013, 07:07:42
I didn't find any grinding at all, you just have to make sure you install the stabalizer guide in the same direction as it was on the original key.
I assume you have a majestouch 2?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Danule on Sun, 21 July 2013, 17:04:15: Quote from: sloth_mc on Sun, 21 July 2013, 00:08:08
Quote from: Danule on Thu, 18 July 2013, 07:07:42
I didn't find any grinding at all, you just have to make sure you install the stabalizer guide in the same direction as it was on the original key.
I assume you have a majestouch 2?

Yes that is correct :)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: norbauer on Thu, 29 August 2013, 01:30:08: Quote from: SkyCorrigan on Wed, 17 July 2013, 21:43:55
Do the kbc thick pbt sets sold by feng on ebay pose any problems on a filco majestouch 2? I really want them but would like some confirmation. Maybe some pics?

I have feng's PBT blanks (http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Grey-Blank-Thick-PBT-104-Keyset-Cherry-MX-Keycaps-/330950287238?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0e2c9f86) on my Filco Ninja Majestouch 2 (Brown switches), and I adore them. The cherry profile is really great, and I feel that I can type faster on it than with the OEM ABS keys that came on the Ninja.

Here are some images, as requested:

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pMwO9ucbrrQx6GKHtH8UJgutUjpiP3PyC3vxZ5aSc7UR2QcrscrBmNddjjo55VkR_RjuH1au0i_3S4saFs_BYLa23CxBxN8C-xdHIyaCubQA/20130828_3.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2p9x5dhdpPSkd3bXdNBc7D08kvlTknXFzfr9jk09pAhv-IjKC6VyTVf0pvpJyISDqSSr9eQ7iQUy9oElgrMdtL_Wzy8e2lAC8ty7e3TBxX4jw/20130828_1.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pMxlAbQN8u_Iq4Rs1FhBgZi-RXIwj6sSN2IenU073JKtmbHC85QBynWoVmhzQLYd9nkpK2R56op0-YT__lM8QDcVgbSvDFIakgyIgC2eO1W4/20130828_2.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pqThWalTWwIp8tkUAQ1JuDkBoaJkSIUbp5CBnFA_pZJJIbiAEpSU9DuxhbCWHntht2SdPk_yKzfT1xCuG8jI8QTO07ULklzEu7-Fx1cle4Ww/20130828_5.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2plN4H9iwWDkTX05CI06tKCwikCVLC2w7wXQ_dVMQis9r0iKZCqtqaZ0jsOP3O9wu0w8G8LJekeUEWQicYjbDdJIpd62tFbVpd72uSY7JpE2o/20130828_7.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pUt5gb8BjmlGnskOvfo-0yaRbQJtJRxoQ8KW2RVZFVeWEXIy9LpBftp301wqXdq_u3Ai3Br2dmKSop9ekC4nUoCcUOluykjRib5xcLm6ehiE/20130828_8.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2p76KyuZmUz4kRANiIREQ8vyFwOBmojHEPFTpva0-mhG6JToGPCkVVa6HsmIn17TV1-HHIJm_pf0fhwHVO5jWlCjYmeYYPpcpCZsAyQeZUi1w/20130828_6.jpg?psid=1)

(http://cyhura.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pNurHrZOghHiTI4ksqzh9-YzphEC7VsNLBg6HHzjCaHqIB1CBp8zWRBtgV-Wc9_u3OEluTW_27T6fLiyi3RSJ_n77geK9E5r5wrATxkFHSAw/20130828_4.jpg?psid=1)

Here are the keys in isolation:

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pwzIAaFBO0SD8BGsSnoYQYcwL5Aum2zjAJFS0XBDNvTGYvVFQITe9v26auGOaLEXUQwBBtlLq0X3HNR2EG8l5LlmoPIIcm3J5CzX5rQzhQxQ/20130721_1.jpg?psid=1)

And here they are (bottom-left) amidst others (OEM profile PBT on the bottom right) and everything else above is Filco ABS of various flavors.

(http://cih0ra.dm1.livefilestore.com/y2pzFV_dj0kxM5ok3N6sZJPipvSKYjGhdOCyBaQdhakf6ZqvKnzPlBZgm7DpvP4I6nluxGpvggVzrekhFOfLHEKhqi1ULL5-7dVPs_zjTrdXMI/20130721_1-2.jpg?psid=1)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: swi7z3r on Mon, 09 September 2013, 02:31:12: Just ordered a set of the KBC thicks from feng (White.Grey w/Blue legend) for my CM QFR (Greens) which is also in the mail. Can't bring myself to take my EK ed. 87U to the warehouse office, and I imagine this will be the next best thing (or possibly better.) for my needs. I find the 45g in the 87U a bit too light for my sausage fingers anyway, same with Blues, much too wispy. Very excited to snap on some greens.

On a note about the capslock LED through solid caps... is there an off the shelf material that could cure in a small drill hole on the key top that would refract the light somewhat? Well, i realize there's probably tons of products that would do this, but what would do it very well? Is this a thing? has GH vetted such a mod? Do I know how to use the search bar?

I have so many questions.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: norbauer on Mon, 09 September 2013, 12:08:05: Quote from: swi7z3r on Mon, 09 September 2013, 02:31:12
Just ordered a set of the KBC thicks from feng (White.Grey w/Blue legend) for my CM QFR (Greens) which is also in the mail. Can't bring myself to take my EK ed. 87U to the warehouse office, and I imagine this will be the next best thing (or possibly better.) for my needs. I find the 45g in the 87U a bit too light for my sausage fingers anyway, same with Blues, much too wispy. Very excited to snap on some greens.

On a note about the capslock LED through solid caps... is there an off the shelf material that could cure in a small drill hole on the key top that would refract the light somewhat? Well, i realize there's probably tons of products that would do this, but what would do it very well? Is this a thing? has GH vetted such a mod? Do I know how to use the search bar?

Thick PBTs with MX greens. That's a hefty combo. I like it.

The idea about custom-crafting a hole for the LED (Realforce-style) is an interesting one. I would bet (though this is idle armchair speculation) that if you drilled a hole int the appropriate spot and then put a layer of silicone on top of the key face that you could pour in a tiny amount of polyresin into the whole and get your desired translucency. The trick will just be getting it not to ooze out on the face side of the cap before it cures, because you won't want to sand on that side of the key cap or it'll be really obvious (i.e., ugly) that you did. You might want to start a new thread asking about this in the "making stuff together" section of Geekhack.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Tarzan on Mon, 09 September 2013, 12:22:29: I've had good luck using two-part clear epoxy, available in any Home Depot/Lowes/hardware store, to fill small voids. There are some kits that come pre-packaged in a dual-tube syringe, or the cheaper version has two small squeeze tubes in a blister pack.

You will want to test this with some spare caps, of course, but once you drill the hole for the LED, just use clear plastic tape (or similar smooth surface material) to seal the hole on the "face" of the keycap, then pour or drip the epoxy into the opening from the back. Use a small needle or pin to coax bubbles out of the epoxy.

Should stick to the cap material just fine, especially if you let some excess flow out on the back of the cap. Be careful, though. Fumes are highly toxic (cyanoacrylate is nasty stuff...), use mask and safety glasses, plus disposable gloves. Excess resin can be cleaned up with alcohol, but it sets up quickly, so put down some wax paper on your work surface to catch drips.

Quote from: swi7z3r on Mon, 09 September 2013, 02:31:12
<snip>
On a note about the capslock LED through solid caps... is there an off the shelf material that could cure in a small drill hole on the key top that would refract the light somewhat? Well, i realize there's probably tons of products that would do this, but what would do it very well? Is this a thing? has GH vetted such a mod? Do I know how to use the search bar?

I have so many questions.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: tbc on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:30:31: thank you very much for the pictures norbauer, but do you think it's possible to put them under some spoiler tags?

your posts crashes both chrome and firefox on mobile and it spikes my laptop to 100% usage :/
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: skuko on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:40:23: question to all the guys with thick PBT caps on boards with costar stabs (filcos, QFRs)....

did you have to mod the enter keycap somehow? my imsto thick PBT enter cap seems to grind a bit on the stabilizer due to the cherry profile being much lower than the OEM one and it results ina weird "mushy" feeling to the key :X

i'm planning to get another imsto set for my other filco, wondering whether this is a one time deal, or all sets will be like that :X
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: Danule on Wed, 11 September 2013, 07:08:59: Quote from: skuko on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:40:23
question to all the guys with thick PBT caps on boards with costar stabs (filcos, QFRs)....

did you have to mod the enter keycap somehow? my imsto thick PBT enter cap seems to grind a bit on the stabilizer due to the cherry profile being much lower than the OEM one and it results ina weird "mushy" feeling to the key :X

i'm planning to get another imsto set for my other filco, wondering whether this is a one time deal, or all sets will be like that :X

are your inserts in the right direction? I get no grinding at all on my 2 filco's... (one pbt one doubleshot)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 11 September 2013, 10:52:14: Quote from: tbc on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:30:31
thank you very much for the pictures norbauer, but do you think it's possible to put them under some spoiler tags?

your posts crashes both chrome and firefox on mobile and it spikes my laptop to 100% usage :/

Oops. Sorry about that.

I just now tried to surround it in
Code: [Select]
[spoiler][img=http://skydrive.com/the_image_in_question.jpg][/img][/spoiler] tags, but it did nothing. Any idea why?
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: ssdt on Wed, 11 September 2013, 13:18:11: Quote from: norbauer on Wed, 11 September 2013, 10:52:14
Quote from: tbc on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:30:31
thank you very much for the pictures norbauer, but do you think it's possible to put them under some spoiler tags?

your posts crashes both chrome and firefox on mobile and it spikes my laptop to 100% usage :/

Oops. Sorry about that.

I just now tried to surround it in
Code: [Select]
[spoiler][img=http://skydrive.com/the_image_in_question.jpg][/img][/spoiler] tags, but it did nothing. Any idea why?

It's not possible, because you have to login to see "the_image_in_question.jpg" :)
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: norbauer on Wed, 11 September 2013, 13:21:29: Quote from: ssdt on Wed, 11 September 2013, 13:18:11
Quote from: norbauer on Wed, 11 September 2013, 10:52:14
Quote from: tbc on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:30:31
thank you very much for the pictures norbauer, but do you think it's possible to put them under some spoiler tags?

your posts crashes both chrome and firefox on mobile and it spikes my laptop to 100% usage :/

Oops. Sorry about that.

I just now tried to surround it in
Code: [Select]
[spoiler][img=http://skydrive.com/the_image_in_question.jpg][/img][/spoiler] tags, but it did nothing. Any idea why?

It's not possible, because you have to login to see "the_image_in_question.jpg" :)

Oh well. Next time I'll just generate lower-res images.
Title: Re: Confused about Imsto/KBC thick PBT sets
Post by: skuko on Wed, 11 September 2013, 14:45:14: Quote from: Danule on Wed, 11 September 2013, 07:08:59
Quote from: skuko on Tue, 10 September 2013, 16:40:23
question to all the guys with thick PBT caps on boards with costar stabs (filcos, QFRs)....

did you have to mod the enter keycap somehow? my imsto thick PBT enter cap seems to grind a bit on the stabilizer due to the cherry profile being much lower than the OEM one and it results ina weird "mushy" feeling to the key :X

i'm planning to get another imsto set for my other filco, wondering whether this is a one time deal, or all sets will be like that :X

are your inserts in the right direction? I get no grinding at all on my 2 filco's... (one pbt one doubleshot)

yeah, enter doesn't even fit if the inserts are wrong :)

i did shim the stabbed keys, the inserts seemed loose in the caps, that seems to have helped quite a bit :)

i have to say that typing on mx reds and the lower cherry profile thick PBT keys feels much better than the stock filco buttons :)