geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: alpslover on Fri, 29 February 2008, 20:24:57
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http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/index.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchicony%2Bkb-9600%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs%3DF0G
the force/travel graphs of different keyswitches is very informative.
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http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/index.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchicony%2Bkb-9600%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs%3DF0G
the force/travel graphs of different keyswitches is very informative.
Sweet. Should be in the wiki.
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It appears that MX blacks have the least travel before activation, and don't require that much force to do so. Yet people complain about their stiffness. (I've yet to try one, BTW).
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Sweet. Should be in the wiki.
Knock yourself out!! (all members have the ability to add content to the wiki)
:)
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Knock yourself out!! (all members have the ability to add content to the wiki)
:)
I'm more of an ideas man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TR0vUPQCs) myself.
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does anyone have one of those topre realforce 30g keyboards? sounds pretty nice. is that the one the sell on benippon?
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I'm more of an ideas man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48TR0vUPQCs) myself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
OH my that was funny. What an idiot! What I can't believe is how polite all these Venture Capitalists in NYC were to him. Props to them!
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http://209.85.135.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://www5f.biglobe.ne.jp/~silencium/keyboard/index.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dchicony%2Bkb-9600%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs%3DF0G
the force/travel graphs of different keyswitches is very informative.
This is very cool.
No wonder the capacitive switches and buckling springs are so popular They are both ends of the spectrum for tactile keyboards. Capacitive switches are very smooth with a long "post-activation" curve, and buckling springs obviously have that SNAP in the middle of the stroke, while being incredibly linear on both sides of the buckling.
Everything else is an approximation of one of those two. I wonder why the other non-linear graphs are so choppy when the capacitive ones are so smooth.
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It appears that MX blacks have the least travel before activation, and don't require that much force to do so. Yet people complain about their stiffness. (I've yet to try one, BTW).
i think because of the linear force curve and the fact that there's no indication (tactile or aural) of when a keystroke is registered other than a character showing up on the screen, people who aren't used to cherry linears are more likely to try to bottom the keys as they type. and because the force necessary increases with key travel and ends up being substantially higher than pretty much every other switch past midtravel, they find the keys to be 'stiff' overall, fatiguing to type on, and difficult to get a nice typing rhythm going. of course, as with anything, they can adapt to it if they really wanted to.
i've typed on keyboards with linear switches before, just not cherrys in particular. i can't say i liked them as much as tactile switches.
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No wonder the capacitive switches and buckling springs are so popular They are both ends of the spectrum for tactile keyboards. Capacitive switches are very smooth with a long "post-activation" curve, and buckling springs obviously have that SNAP in the middle of the stroke, while being incredibly linear on both sides of the buckling.
there are clicky capacitive keyboards - the original ibm pc and at keyboards use buckling spring actuators with capacitive switches. it's not so much the switch technology itself that determines the feel of the keys, it's the mechanisms by which the switches are activated that you feel as you type.
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That said, I've heard the Model F and the AT keyboards described as "clickier and more solid than a Model M."
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That said, I've heard the Model F and the AT keyboards described as "clickier and more solid than a Model M."
they are. the springs feel like they collapse harder and the keys smack bottom harder. definitely not to everybody's preference, and many people find they type slower on them.
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Really? When I type on my 84-key AT keyboards, the springs feel more pleasant than the 101-key model M, although the bottoming out hurts my fingers when I type with the weight of my fingers and not simply finger strength.
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This is very cool.
No wonder the capacitive switches and buckling springs are so popular They are both ends of the spectrum for tactile keyboards. Capacitive switches are very smooth with a long "post-activation" curve, and buckling springs obviously have that SNAP in the middle of the stroke, while being incredibly linear on both sides of the buckling.
Everything else is an approximation of one of those two. I wonder why the other non-linear graphs are so choppy when the capacitive ones are so smooth.
His test rig (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww5f.biglobe.ne.jp%2F%7Esilencium%2Fkeyboard%2Fhtml%2Fkeisoku.html&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) is not very accurate. If I understand correctly, he has a scale with supposed accuracy of +/- 2g, and he moves the probe down some arbitrary distance, reads the total weight (of the keyboard plus the weight pressing the key down), moves the probe some more, etc. I'm kind of surprised that he got anything that even looks like a force graph. A force gauge would really be needed to get any data I'd rely on.
A cheaper, and possibly precise enough method, would be to get a high accuracy scale, like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Model-53-Digital-Tracking-Force-Scale-Stylus-Gauge_W0QQitemZ150184099787QQihZ005QQcategoryZ48648QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem) (+/- 0.01g, it claims), set it on a stand that can be moved upwards very precisely, with a rod on the pan connected to a cam that pushes another rod down onto the keycap. The force required to move the rods and cam could be determined by running it with no key under the final rod, and compensated for. (If it's properly engineered, this force should be pretty minimal)
Something like this:
(http://i26.tinypic.com/25sa8ec.gif)
(Yeah, I know, very crude drawing.)
Scale on the left, key on the right. The cam can freely turn, and the rods are hinged where they connect to the cam.
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Wouldn't it be better to survey and have the people say which keyswitches should rank low force to high force in their relative order?
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Wouldn't it be better to survey and have the people say which keyswitches should rank low force to high force in their relative order?
No. Any number of other factors can influence people's impressions of how much force is required- the angle of the key, the height of the keyboard, the size, shape, spacing and placement of the keys, etc. With actual force diagrams, you can at least have an idea of whether or not you're going to like a keyboard, based on what keyboards you already like.