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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: jamdox on Tue, 02 April 2013, 21:50:57
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Hey folks,
Well, to reward myself for good behavior, I purchased a Ducky Shine II from mechanicalkeyboards. This keyboard was originally listed as having MX White switches, but that was a mislabeling due to the fact that the Chinese call "clear" switches "white," and "white" switches "milk," according to the Deskthority wiki.
First, as I'm sure most are aware, the Ducky build quality is excellent. The backplate is solid, the keys don't wobble, the surface of the keys is smooth and nicely finished, everything is great. The feel of bottoming out is on par with my main comparison, the Apple Extended II. I especially love the DIP switches, which not only enable switching between n- and 6-key rollover, but also allow switching the Windows and Alt keys, which is hugely useful for a Mac user like myself. Moreover, it came with Ducky keys instead of Windows keys!
The only cons for this keyboard are the Cherry stabilizers on the space bar and large keys, which cause them to not bottom out fully, the fact that the LED actually appears to be flashing at something like 30Hz, so it leaves multiple images or "tracers" when my eyes glance over the keyboard, and the Num, Scroll and Capslock keys are only lit when active, instead of having separate activation LEDs. While I've never had a problem with rubbing the legend off a key, someone who has might want to look at the Deck.
Clear switches are excellent. They're what I'd hoped. Good tactility, good weight. I'd call them a cross between a blue and the dampened Alps in my AEKII. They have the weight and quietness of the AEKII, and a similar friction, but are much more tactile, and have the actuation point after the force bump, like a blue. The Alps activate very near the top of the stroke, which was subtly distracting and prone to causing double-strikes, so this actuation profile is very welcome. And unlike the browns, they don't feel gritty. They feel... good. Clean and logical.
The weight is great, and combined with the tactility makes it very easy to not bottom out, or bottom out very lightly, unlike the lighter Cherry switches which were just impossible for me to not push all the way through. I'm sure the Topre switches offer a somewhat more refined feel, but clears are definitely better than any of the lighter tactile cherry switches. I though this might be the case, since they're Deck's choice. I haven't opened this keyboard to check the soldering, but assuming the internals are good, this keyboard is a Deck-killer for anyone who doesn't need dye-sublimation keycaps.
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I got the same keyboard and I definitely think it's the best "quiet" keyboard I've ever used. However, I still kind of miss the auditory feedback from clicky switches. Maybe I'll pick up a keyboard with Greens next.
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Could make some ghetto greens, put stiffer springs in blues. Personally, I like blues for the crispness of the break, but I've been pleased with how well the clears compare. I was expecting much worse, given the force diagrams. But it moves so quickly in practice, it's not a problem for me.
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Mine is on the way and I can't wait. I finally get my hands on Clears; the Clears are the last MX switch I need to own/try. After I've tried this keyboard out enough, I'm probably going to have to decide on between the Greens, Blues, and Clears because I plan on selling one of them... *sigh* The woes of a poor man.
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the Clears are the last MX switch I need to own/try.
the last mx switch you want to try is ergo clears =)
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the last mx switch you want to try is ergo clears =)
Lol, that is a good point... Modding this Ducky Shine II would be a pain in the ass though... Will probably just have to buy a custom one. *sigh* That won't be for awhile, that's for sure.
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Just got my Ducky Shine II w/ Clears and I must say, I'm freaking loving it. I was hoping that it would be less stiff than the Greens but I think they are pretty close in stiffness, but it works well for this switch. I think this switch is the ultimate not-bottom-out switch. I bottom out pretty easily on the Greens but this one, I literally don't bottom out at all... It's pretty damn sweet.
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Just got my Ducky Shine II w/ Clears and I must say, I'm freaking loving it. I was hoping that it would be less stiff than the Greens but I think they are pretty close in stiffness, but it works well for this switch. I think this switch is the ultimate not-bottom-out switch. I bottom out pretty easily on the Greens but this one, I literally don't bottom out at all... It's pretty damn sweet.
I thought that at first too, but then I realized that I was actually bottoming out, I just wasn't bottoming out as hard because of the stiff spring. Adding O-rings definitely improves the feel of the switch in my opinion.
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Just got my Ducky Shine II w/ Clears and I must say, I'm freaking loving it. I was hoping that it would be less stiff than the Greens but I think they are pretty close in stiffness, but it works well for this switch. I think this switch is the ultimate not-bottom-out switch. I bottom out pretty easily on the Greens but this one, I literally don't bottom out at all... It's pretty damn sweet.
I thought that at first too, but then I realized that I was actually bottoming out, I just wasn't bottoming out as hard because of the stiff spring. Adding O-rings definitely improves the feel of the switch in my opinion.
Really now?! Hmmm.. Now I have to test O-rings... it's gonna be a pain in the ass though. Lol! I'm currently trying out OEM thin PBT's and thick PBT's on this beast. I'll update on my findings a lil' later.
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I put some of WASD's O-Rings on my Leopold Clear Board.
I'm not sure I like it yet.
It does help with the bottoming out, going to leave it for a couple of months, then take them out and see how I feel then!
Cherry stabilizers make changing out o-rings alot easier!
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I put some of WASD's O-Rings on my Leopold Clear Board.
I'm not sure I like it yet.
It does help with the bottoming out, going to leave it for a couple of months, then take them out and see how I feel then!
Cherry stabilizers make changing out o-rings alot easier!
Hmm I will try 4 switches with O-rings right now but I'm pretty sure I won't like it because I kind of like bottoming out. However, I know for sure that Clears feel way better with thin PBT's. The thick PBT's kind of dull out the bump too much.
I love me my Cherry stabilizers. I like Costar stabilizers too but I just prefer Cherry.
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Hmm I will try 4 switches with O-rings right now but I'm pretty sure I won't like it because I kind of like bottoming out. However, I know for sure that Clears feel way better with thin PBT's. The thick PBT's kind of dull out the bump too much.
You need to put lighter springs inside of those clears for more bump :)
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You need to put lighter springs inside of those clears for more bump :)
Argh! I really want to try ergo-clears right now just to compare the tactile/bump difference but I really don't have the money for that :( How much harder is it to mod a backlit keyboard like the Ducky Shine II than that of a regular keyboard like Filco? But then again, I don't really want to void my warranty on this thing just yet... I only got it today too :( Ugh...... I think I'm just gonna have to dish out the money in the future. *sigh* I don't mind the stiffness of the Clears at all but I really was expecting it to be a little lighter than this...It's definitely almost as stiff as Greens. I have no lube either :( It's recommended to lube ergo-clears to prevent sticking, right?
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Aww I feel bad now. I've never done any soldering, but I'm almost positive most people find desoldering the LEDs to be rather tedious. My Poker w/ Clears and 62g springs is currently not lubed (will be soon) and they don't get stuck.
Edit - Actually, PM me with your address and I'll send you a Clear switch and light spring after the Clears get here. They should be here by Saturday :)
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Aww I feel bad now. I've never done any soldering, but I'm almost positive most people find desoldering the LEDs to be rather tedious. My Poker w/ Clears and 62g springs is currently not lubed (will be soon) and they don't get stuck.
Edit - Actually, PM me with your address and I'll send you a Clear switch and light spring after the Clears get here. They should be here by Saturday :)
:-* No need to feel bad :P I was just whining. Hehe. I did see your Poker with the steel backboard with Clears switches and light springs. I'm SERIOUSLY jelly. I was drooling over it and thought to myself, "that's my dream keyboard right there." Hehehe. Maybe in the future I'll be able to get a Poker with a custom steel backplate so I can perform keyboard science with the ease of not having to desolder.
PM Sent!
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Actually, these switches ping a little, depending on how I hit them... I'm making an existential stand in deciding to not care. ;D
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Actually, these switches ping a little, depending on how I hit them... I'm making an existential stand in deciding to not care. ;D
I have the same board and I haven't really noticed any pinging since I got it. I'd agree with pretty much everything you said in the review though, but I actually really like Cherry stabilizers and don't really mind not bottoming out on them.
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Actually, these switches ping a little, depending on how I hit them... I'm making an existential stand in deciding to not care. ;D
I have the same board and I haven't really noticed any pinging since I got it. I'd agree with pretty much everything you said in the review though, but I actually really like Cherry stabilizers and don't really mind not bottoming out on them.
Yeah, no pinging issues here. I'm with missalaire in that I also like Cherry stabilizers :D I'm absolutely loving this keyboard!!! I just now need to feel ergo-clears. I ever so slightly wish that the clears were just a tad less stiff :P
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Actually, these switches ping a little, depending on how I hit them... I'm making an existential stand in deciding to not care. ;D
I have the same board and I haven't really noticed any pinging since I got it. I'd agree with pretty much everything you said in the review though, but I actually really like Cherry stabilizers and don't really mind not bottoming out on them.
Yeah, no pinging issues here. I'm with missalaire in that I also like Cherry stabilizers :D I'm absolutely loving this keyboard!!! I just now need to feel ergo-clears. I ever so slightly wish that the clears were just a tad less stiff :P
another advantage of ergo clears is that tactile bump is noticeably more pronounced.
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another advantage of ergo clears is that tactile bump is noticeably more pronounced.
Hmmm~ Interesting. I think it's like the Greens vs Blues; I'm sure the actuation peak force is probably about the same but it feels more pronounced because the stiffness builds up more drastically as the switch reaches the actuation point/peak because of the lighter spring. Nonetheless, that would definitely make it feel more pronounced which is a good thing! Does it ever stick? I definitely want to feel this!
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Does it ever stick?
i've heard the rumors of it sticking, but it never happens on my boards.
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i've heard the rumors of it sticking, but it never happens on my boards.
Yeh, I've read in plenty of places that it has the tendency to stick but everyone I've asked says otherwise. I guess if I ever mod my board to ergo-clear, I'll just lube up just in case :P
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Crappy quality videos I took in like 10 minutes and posted in case people want to hear and see how this keyboard sounds and looks.
Yeh, I know, they're ****ty quality but it'll have to do for now. Maybe I'll do HD vids next time if these get some views but I don't really care for having a youtube channel. Just didn't know where else to upload videos. Lol.
I put white PBT's on there so the backlit would show up and look better. The stock keycaps wouldn't show the backlighting because my fingers would cover it up. Also, PBT's just feel and sound better :P
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Thanks for the videos! The quality isn't that bad, but they're upside down. It actually looks a little scary seeing you type from above rather than below D:
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Thanks for the videos! The quality isn't that bad, but they're upside down. It actually looks a little scary seeing you type from above rather than below D:
Hehehe~ Yeh, it's kind of hard to get camera placement from the front and I don't have a video editor to flip the camera upside down :( maybe I'll find a video editor and flip it upside sometime in the future :P
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Lol, it wasn't actually scary. I've just never seen a keyboard video from that perspective :)
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I put white PBT's on there so the backlit would show up and look better. The stock keycaps wouldn't show the backlighting because my fingers would cover it up. Also, PBT's just feel and sound better :P
That's pretty slick. And that is how it sounds, too!
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having tried clears (or for that matter, most of the cherry switches including varied spring weighted ergo clears and ghetto greens), the next logical step after going for clears would be indeed ergo clears. I find it to be the best feeling out of all the tactile non clicky switches, having the middle ground of a light touch and a larger tactile bump than browns, or for that matter, a normal clear. It's literally the last mx switch I'd use on a mechanical keyboard, unless I decide to branch out into topres or alps.
@jocelyn: you should definitely get the switches lubed as soon as you can, it makes a world of a difference when its done properly, and considering you're using krytox, I imagine it'd be a even better feel in comparison (I'm using superlube). It dampens the noise to a minimum, and the smoothness of the switch actuation really makes for a great typing experience compared to unlubed ergo-clears.
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@jocelyn: you should definitely get the switches lubed as soon as you can, it makes a world of a difference when its done properly, and considering you're using krytox, I imagine it'd be a even better feel in comparison (I'm using superlube). It dampens the noise to a minimum, and the smoothness of the switch actuation really makes for a great typing experience compared to unlubed ergo-clears.
Thanks! I do plan to lube them very soon (103/205 mix for stems & Victorinox for the springs), but I lent my switch removal tools to remedyhalopc for a few weeks :)
Edit - I'm also waiting for 100 clears to arrive on Monday so I can choose the best stems.
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you're doing it right :p
I went for the lazy man method of lubing everything with superlube, which is good enough for now though I'd probably look into the krytox mixtures in the future.
Just as a point of curiosity - how would you know if one stem is better than the other?
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it makes a world of a difference when its done properly
any instructions?
Edit - I'm also waiting for 100 clears to arrive on Monday so I can choose the best stems.
good luck! will you be using a microscope for that?
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I would say WFD's video is a great guide for that. For the matter, most of his videos are my goto for keyboard modding nowadays. Here's the link how he lubes the switches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4EaKBfLB28U
Some personal notes - the sliders need a decent coat of lube (meaning a visible film, but not too much, or else the keypress just jams up) for it to make a difference. Trying to apply lube on the sliders with fingers is a dumb idea (don't ask me how I know, but it doesn't work well at all). Use either a cotton bud, or a brush. Keep in mind that I was using superlube, which was cheap enough for me to ignore the amount used. Those using krytox or other expensive lubes should note that a brush soaks up a good amount of lube which goes to waste. Even using superlube I find using a cottonbud uses up a noticeable smaller amount than if I used a brush, but a brush is definitely faster and more convenient.
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you're doing it right :p
I went for the lazy man method of lubing everything with superlube, which is good enough for now though I'd probably look into the krytox mixtures in the future.
Just as a point of curiosity - how would you know if one stem is better than the other?
Edit - I'm also waiting for 100 clears to arrive on Monday so I can choose the best stems.
good luck! will you be using a microscope for that?
Yeah yeah yeah, I really don't know what I was thinking lol. I guess I thought I'd be able to feel a difference, but all of that was a false notion :)
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Ugh... All this talk of lube and ergo-clears makes me want to spend money I probably don't have on modding a keyboard into an ergo-clear!!! Lol. Do you guys think stickers are crucial? I don't know how much they cost or where I'd even get them :\
All that aside, I'm thoroughly enjoying the Clears :D Heavy at times but mostly very pleasant! It's such a quiet keyboard; definitely the quietest Cherry MX switch so far.
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Stickers are anything but crucial lol. You can get them from techkeys or mimic's store.
PS - My clears came today, so I'll be sending you one along with the other goodies I mentioned.
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I have mine stickered, and honestly, I'm not sure I feel a difference at all, though I think the sound signature of a key bottoming out changed a little.
The reasons why I did stickering was because well...
1. already had the stickers
2. was already opening up the switches anyway, so why not?
3. same as 2, and since I'm already lubing stems, springs, and switch housings, it makes sense to go that extra step anyhow.
but yes, default clears are extremely quiet, more so than ergo clears can be. But the keypresses are too heavy for me, especially on the pinkies. pretty much impossible to bottom out without intention to do so and then some. (but pressing that backspace always threw me off, so much so that I gave up on the switch entirely.)
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Stickers are anything but crucial lol. You can get them from techkeys or mimic's store.
PS - My clears came today, so I'll be sending you one along with the other goodies I mentioned.
OOOO Thank you again! <3 <3 <3 I can't wait! My fingers are trembling to go into keyboard surgery :P
I have mine stickered, and honestly, I'm not sure I feel a difference at all, though I think the sound signature of a key bottoming out changed a little.
The reasons why I did stickering was because well...
1. already had the stickers
2. was already opening up the switches anyway, so why not?
3. same as 2, and since I'm already lubing stems, springs, and switch housings, it makes sense to go that extra step anyhow.
but yes, default clears are extremely quiet, more so than ergo clears can be. But the keypresses are too heavy for me, especially on the pinkies. pretty much impossible to bottom out without intention to do so and then some. (but pressing that backspace always threw me off, so much so that I gave up on the switch entirely.)
Thank you for the information! It helps me feel better knowing that I won't die from not buying stickers :P I can understand that this switch may be too stiff for some people. I like it, just might prefer lighter. I think Clears are definitely great for gaming, if not on par with the Blacks, which I consider to bet he best gaming switch. It's just such a damn solid feel :)
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Ugh... All this talk of lube and ergo-clears makes me want to spend money I probably don't have on modding a keyboard into an ergo-clear!!! Lol.
it's definitely worth it. yes, technically ergo clears are just clears with weaker springs, but they feel really different, and, honestly, much better.
Do you guys think stickers are crucial?
lol noes
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Reading this thread sold me on the shine, wish I had seen this before getting my leo...
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Hey I got a question to those who have this board.
When you change the light settings, and get the brightness right where you want it, select the cluster you want lit, what happens when you reboot?
Does it remember those settings, or do you have to reset everything?
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Hey I got a question to those who have this board.
When you change the light settings, and get the brightness right where you want it, select the cluster you want lit, what happens when you reboot?
Does it remember those settings, or do you have to reset everything?
it remembers.
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it remembers.
Oh so awesome
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it remembers.
Oh so awesome
Yeh dood, it remembers both settings (you can have 2 separate custom light settings). Awesome, ain't it?! :D
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I saw your videos and instantly regretted getting my leo. Its my fault for not researching enough though, and thats very unlike me. However, the topic of mech keyboards is a very deep well for newbies like me. So I figure Ill just flip the leo and get the shine and the matching rest for it.
btw where did you pick yours up from?
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I saw your videos and instantly regretted getting my leo. Its my fault for not researching enough though, and thats very unlike me. However, the topic of mech keyboards is a very deep well for newbies like me. So I figure Ill just flip the leo and get the shine and the matching rest for it.
btw where did you pick yours up from?
Yeh, researching mechanical keyboards can be hard work but fun at the same time; there are so many specs you have to take into consideration. Worst case, you can try out both for awhile and then sell the one you like less on here with a little loss.
I got mine at mechanicalkeyboards.com. The Ducky Shine II come in different switches and different colored LED's. If you're looking for the Ducky Shine II w/ Clears, here's the link:
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=296
I swear, mechanicalkeyboards.com should give me royalties; I sell them so many keyboards. Lol!
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I got mine at mechanicalkeyboards.com. The Ducky Shine II come in different switches and different colored LED's. If you're looking for the Ducky Shine II w/ Clears, here's the link:
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=296
I swear, mechanicalkeyboards.com should give me royalties; I sell them so many keyboards. Lol!
I was looking at this site and model
http://tigerimports.net/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=12127
Any experience with them before?
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I got mine at mechanicalkeyboards.com. The Ducky Shine II come in different switches and different colored LED's. If you're looking for the Ducky Shine II w/ Clears, here's the link:
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=296
I swear, mechanicalkeyboards.com should give me royalties; I sell them so many keyboards. Lol!
I was looking at this site and model
http://tigerimports.net/sunshop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=12127
Any experience with them before?
Tiger Imports is the parent company of MechanicalKeyboards.com.
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So I'm on the right track then.
I know this is off topic alittle but with all the quackers I thought it might be a good time to ask.
Does anyone use a ducky palm rest? Cause I was wondering if it was "slidey" or not.
Sorry for the hijack question... (*ducks* get it...?)
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If you're talking about the ducky wrist rest, I have one. It slides around, and is made of material that is simply not worth it's price.
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Tis why you go on a quest to find yourself a vintage Fellowes real gel wrist wrest. I gotz one and I wouldn't swap it for anything else :D
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Tis why you go on a quest to find yourself a vintage Fellowes real gel wrist wrest. I gotz one and I wouldn't swap it for anything else :D
I ordered this one from fellows, I'm sure it will do the trick
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013CEY0Q/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Tis why you go on a quest to find yourself a vintage Fellowes real gel wrist wrest. I gotz one and I wouldn't swap it for anything else :D
I ordered this one from fellows, I'm sure it will do the trick
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013CEY0Q/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Hmmm, as long as it doesn't smell like death, you should be fine (bad gel can spell like chemicals). I, however, can't go back after experiencing this real gel heaven :P
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Ok Vesper, I ordered my shine this morning red switch blue led. I hope your happy with yourself...
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Ok Vesper, I ordered my shine this morning red switch blue led. I hope your happy with yourself...
Hehehe :P Only as long as you end up loving it, and I'm sure you will! It's just a really solid and beautiful keyboard; you won't regret it.
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VesperSAINT, you were right. I replaced the stock ABS keycaps with PBT ones and it feels MUCH better. The Clears felt kind of mediocre to me before, but now they feel great because I can feel the tactile bump much more clearly. My only complaint is that I can no longer see the indicator LED for the Caps Lock key, since the window on the keycap is oriented the opposite direction from the switch LED.
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VesperSAINT, you were right. I replaced the stock ABS keycaps with PBT ones and it feels MUCH better. The Clears felt kind of mediocre to me before, but now they feel great because I can feel the tactile bump much more clearly. My only complaint is that I can no longer see the indicator LED for the Caps Lock key, since the window on the keycap is oriented the opposite direction from the switch LED.
I'm glad you were able to like your new keyboard better :D PBT's are such a cheap and awesome way to improve one's keyboard experience! Well, even if the light doesn't shine through the window, you'll probably still be able to see if it's on or not because the light will shine through the keycap. You put on white or black PBT?
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I see my student is preaching of vintage gels. Remember who gave you that ebay link for the variation 2. I am still at 7 currently found variations, your variation 2 is still the newest vintage gel gets. My 1's and 1.5 are better of course, but I am still on the lookout for a 0 that's NIB.
EDIT: That amazon link fellowes memory foam wristrest is **** BTW. Just thought you'd want to know csloan1218.
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EDIT: That amazon link fellowes memory foam wristrest is **** BTW. Just thought you'd want to know csloan1218.
Too late, with prime I got it yesterday. Its way to hard, I'm sending it back asap.
I figure this weekend I'll shop around locally til I find something that works for me.
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I'm glad you were able to like your new keyboard better :D PBT's are such a cheap and awesome way to improve one's keyboard experience! Well, even if the light doesn't shine through the window, you'll probably still be able to see if it's on or not because the light will shine through the keycap. You put on white or black PBT?
No such luck. The keycaps are the Ducky black PBT caps with lasered legends. I think I might actually email MK and see if they have any PBT Caps Lock keycaps with the window on top. If not, then it's not a big deal to me.
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I see my student is preaching of vintage gels. Remember who gave you that ebay link for the variation 2. I am still at 7 currently found variations, your variation 2 is still the newest vintage gel gets. My 1's and 1.5 are better of course, but I am still on the lookout for a 0 that's NIB.
EDIT: That amazon link fellowes memory foam wristrest is **** BTW. Just thought you'd want to know csloan1218.
Oo *bows to sensei* I mearly compared my copper to your silver and gold :P Remember to sell me one of your 1.5's or 1's that you haven't used when you stock up on too many :P
EDIT: That amazon link fellowes memory foam wristrest is **** BTW. Just thought you'd want to know csloan1218.
Too late, with prime I got it yesterday. Its way to hard, I'm sending it back asap.
I figure this weekend I'll shop around locally til I find something that works for me.
Sorry to hear, bro :( Hopefully you'll find one to complement that beautiful Shine II that's on the way :P
No such luck. The keycaps are the Ducky black PBT caps with lasered legends. I think I might actually email MK and see if they have any PBT Caps Lock keycaps with the window on top. If not, then it's not a big deal to me.
OO, hopefully they'll find something for you :( keep me posted
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EDIT: That amazon link fellowes memory foam wristrest is **** BTW. Just thought you'd want to know csloan1218.
Too late, with prime I got it yesterday. Its way to hard, I'm sending it back asap.
I figure this weekend I'll shop around locally til I find something that works for me.
The best wristrests are vintage fellowes, the best mousepads are vintage belkin. Vintage belkin are even harder to find than vintage fellowes.
I see my student is preaching of vintage gels. Remember who gave you that ebay link for the variation 2. I am still at 7 currently found variations, your variation 2 is still the newest vintage gel gets. My 1's and 1.5 are better of course, but I am still on the lookout for a 0 that's NIB.
EDIT: That amazon link fellowes memory foam wristrest is **** BTW. Just thought you'd want to know csloan1218.
Oo *bows to sensei* I mearly compared my copper to your silver and gold :P Remember to sell me one of your 1.5's or 1's that you haven't used when you stock up on too many :P
You can never have too many. I will still tell you about any cheaper variation 2's I spot.
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Can you post some links or pics so I would know one if I came across them?
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No, I have too much invested in the bad ones. EDIT: By too much I mean I have spent quite a few hundred dollars over the past few years.
I will give some hints though. 2 specific colors matter with belkin, missing numbers matter with fellowes. VesperSAINT - If you understand my hint DO NOT tell him what it means. I have already given too much away...
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No such luck. The keycaps are the Ducky black PBT caps with lasered legends. I think I might actually email MK and see if they have any PBT Caps Lock keycaps with the window on top. If not, then it's not a big deal to me.
OO, hopefully they'll find something for you :( keep me posted
Response from MK:
Unfortunately, all of Ducky's black PBT caps have the window at the bottom instead of the top. If I find out differently I will let you know, but all of the caps I have seen are this way.
Thank you,
Caleb Putnam
Mechanical Keyboards Inc
Again, not a big deal though. The greatly improved feel is definitely worth it.
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What's the difference between springs in a clear switch and in a black switch? Are the springs in a clear switch the same as those in the green switch (assuming that the green springs are different than the black spring)?
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clears are heavier than blacks. no idea about actual greens, but those should be lighter than the springs used in clears.
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Just sold mechanicalkeyboards com another one of these today... Lol.
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I especially love the DIP switches, which not only enable switching between n- and 6-key rollover, but also allow switching the Windows and Alt keys, which is hugely useful for a Mac user like myself. Moreover, it came with Ducky keys instead of Windows keys!
So I know this likely isn't the best place to ask this (sorry), but since you mentioned it outright, I was wondering if you could clarify this for an aspiring Shine II owner -- is it both sets of Win-Alt keys (Left & Right) that get swapped in the dip-switch version, or just the left-side set, as the wording on the Ducky product page would seem to suggest?
http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK9008_shine2.html
I have the v1 9008G2Pro (switches both, but is the "Fn" based switching... so all N-Key, all the time) and have been looking to upgrade to a Shine II ever since realizing the incompatibility with my new customac, but I got a little nervous when I saw the Product page. I don't want to wait months for the right KB to come back in stock only to realize my cross-platform hopes were doomed to begin with.
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These are out of stock now, btw.
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These are out of stock now, btw.
It took them longer to go out of stock than I thought it would. I thought these would sell much faster.
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These are out of stock now, btw.
It took them longer to go out of stock than I thought it would. I thought these would sell much faster.
I thought the same thing, but it may be from lower exposure it gets than other switch types. Not enough word out there on how awesome the Clear switches are. This thing should be pretty desirable now that they're gone, and the Shine 3 may end up being unnecessarily expensive and the Zero Shine won't have the custom back light options and probably also a lack of Clear switch.
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These are out of stock now, btw.
It took them longer to go out of stock than I thought it would. I thought these would sell much faster.
I thought the same thing, but it may be from lower exposure it gets than other switch types. Not enough word out there on how awesome the Clear switches are. This thing should be pretty desirable now that they're gone, and the Shine 3 may end up being unnecessarily expensive and the Zero Shine won't have the custom back light options and probably also a lack of Clear switch.
Sorry, I didn't think to address the question to the "greater thread", but since you have one, do you think you could confirm?
I'm posting here randomly because I came across the thread (again, sorry), not because I'm decided on a S2 w/ clears.
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@raspiguy -- Yes, I can confirm that both the left and right <Alt> keys will activate the Windows start menu when DIP switch 2 is set to the "on" position. Likewise, both the left and right <Ducky Logo> keys behave like the "Alt" modifier when switch 2 is on.
These are out of stock now, btw.
I was lucky to get that last one. Thank you, VesperSAINT for pointing out to me that they were for sale there. I hope MK.com hires you into their marketing department. They can pay you in keyboards!
I couldn't really afford it right now (just paid for an uber-expensive brake job -- I should've been a mechanic!), but I went into debt for this keyboard anyway because it has the features that I want (compared to other boards with Clears), I'm familiar with Ducky quality, and I didn't want to risk that they'd never be in stock again. Thus, I'm trying hard to love it as much as I love my Ducky with Greens, but to be honest, I'm still somewhat on the fence.
I've had it for just over 48 hours, and I can relate to both some of the good and some of the not-so-good things mentioned earlier in this thread:
THE GOOD:
- The keyboard is sturdy, has a nice heft to it, and does not wobble. There are no cracks, gouges, scratches, dings, dents, crooked keys, or non-functional LEDs. All the keys work as they should.
- I like the tactile response of Clears because it is much more pronounced than Browns, which I perceive as dirty or gritty, like they've got a grain of sand stuck in them, or something.
- The weight is really nice, and is quite similar to Greens while typing, as VesperSAINT said. The minor difference in the springs, though, seems much more pronounced when gaming in an FPS game that requires the "W" key to be held down for forward movement. It is not nearly as tiring in that case (at least for me). Thus, the Clear switch serves the purposes of both typing and gaming comfortably.
- Also similar to Greens, and as mentioned in the OP, the spring's resistance increases after actuation, helping to reduce the likelihood and soften the blow of bottoming out. Some people don't like this; I think it's great.
- The LED lighting is very attractive, and the variety of lighting options is a big plus, particularly the ability to store TWO custom lighting patterns and that the settings are restored after reboot.
- The Cherry actuation point is just right. I've never tried an ALPS switch or an AEKII, but I think that I, too, would find the immediate actuation rather off-putting.
- I was a fool to order a keyboard with side-printed key caps (the Ducky DK9008G2 Pro Limited Edition PBT). I can touch type A thru Z with good accuracy and decent-enough WPM (65-70 -- I'm not a programmer), but I quickly discovered after getting the Ducky with Greens that I do not yet have the symbols on the number row memorized! Side-printed caps also make gaming difficult, especially because I prefer a low-light environment, so they may as well be blank because I can't see the front sides, anyway. The illuminated legends on the tops of the keys solve those problems.
THE NOT-SO-GOOD:
- This has been said before, no doubt, but the placement of the media keys is just... WTF, man? Those four keys in the upper-right should be used for this. I'll bet AutoHotkey can help me.
- While the tactile response is indeed more noticeable in Clears than it is in Browns, it seems a little "chunky" to me. Dry, but not crisp and distinct like I was expecting. Properly done Ergo Clears would likely solve that by accentuating the bump and smoothing out the overall action of a full keystroke.
- I do like the default weight of these switches. Nonetheless, I feel they should be slightly less resistant. Again, there's a sort of dryness or unnecessary friction to them. Would simply lubing be enough for me? Maybe. But considering the work involved to mod the switches of a back-lit board, one may as well go all the way. Anything worth doing is worth doing right, yes?
- As jamdox stated in the OP, the white LED lighting, while impressive, does funky things to my eyes when glancing over them. I usually keep it on the lowest setting, and can't imagine ever needing the highest setting.
- Cherry stabilizers are mushy. I've never tried Costar stabilizers, and I never noticed this on my other Ducky, probably because of the crisp, clicky Green switches, but it's a little weird. Not a deal breaker, but... weird.
- Some of the keys ping. Not all of them, though. W, U, G, and semicolon are the most distinct on the unit I received. This is mildly distracting, but for $150 I'm starting to question whether I should ignore it. Congrats to those who don't experience this. O-rings or a keyboard mat might help reduce the resonance.
- Placing the PBT key caps from my old Ducky on the new Ducky's alphabet keys seemed to dampen the tactile bump of the Clears. I didn't try it for very long, so maybe I'll give it another go and leave them on for a day or two. The mind plays tricks.
CONCLUSION:
I'll keep this keyboard and continue to use it. Very likely, it will grow on me a bit more. It is excellent for both typing and gaming, and the MX Clear switch very nearly occupies that middle ground between clicky-tactile and linear switches which the MX Browns were intended -- but have failed -- to secure. I don't think I would recommend it to others, even if it were still in stock. Instead, get a keyboard with MX Clears that does not have back-lighting, or one with PCB-mounted switches, then modify it. Ergo Clears are a must. Cherry would do very well to manufacture them. They would make this board spectacular, as the biggest drawbacks for me are the sense of dry friction expressed throughout the entire keystroke and the not-crisp-enough tactile response.
Sorry for the wall of text. I hope not all of it was superfluous.
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No need to apologize, TwistedMentat! If anything, thank you for your in-depth review! It was definitely an awesome read. You and I seem to share a strange fate where we both bought and heavily focused on the same two keyboards (Ducky Shine 2 w/ Clears and the Ducky DK9008G2 Pro Limited Edition w/ Greens)!!! :cool: They are both awesome keyboards, for sure. You credit me too much though *blushes* I have a habit of expressing my opinion like a marketer :)) I end up selling my point of view to those around me (my friends here end up buying the products I get because I persuade them into thinking it's the best :)) ), and now on GH :PI try to be more objective on GH, of course. Lol. I won't deny I've been credited for others' purchases on mechanicalkeyboards.com; I've probably sold them at least over a dozen keyboards now :)) Hiring me or paying me in keyboards would be nice :P J.K.!!!
Like the Ducky Greens, the Ducky Clears took me about 2 days before I was completely comfortable typing on them. I wouldn't say that this was a bad thing but rather time that was required to adjust to the stiffness, especially if you're coming from Blues, Browns, or Reds. However, after adjustment, I think these 2 switches are the best feeling stock Cherry switches, for sure. I think that PBT keycaps are a must for the complete experience for either switch as the harder characteristic of PBT plastic make the tactility of the Green and Clear switch more pronounced and crisp. I personally found the stock Ducky Shine ABS keycaps to drown out the tactile bump of the Clear switch, while with the PBT's, the tactile bump was much more raw, if not almost rough because of how long the tactile bump is (but I liked this about the Clear switch). You should definitely give it another shot, TwistedMentat. If you type anything like I do on the Clears, you probably lift off right after the actuation bump on the Clears because it's so easy to not bottom out (best feature of Clears), and PBT's only further help with this.
I currently no longer possess the Ducky DK9008G2 Pro Limited Edition w/ Greens nor the Ducky Shine II w/ Clears because I couldn't afford to keep 2 semi-expensive keyboards when I'll soon have a Filco with a custom plate and all the switches and springs available to create and Green, Clear, and Ergo-Clear keyboard. Also, the Green switch was a lil' too stiff for my pinky and ring finger, which caused frequent typos if I wasn't focusing on my typing. BUT TwistedMentat, if you can afford to keep both of them, I highly advise that you do because those two keyboards (especially the Ducky Greens) are absolutely awesome pieces. The spacebar on the Ducky Greens is the most strong crisp breaking Cherry switch I've felt. I don't know how they did it because I've felt multiple CM QFR's Green spacebars, a CM XT Green spacebar, a Green spacebar I soldered into my Blue keyboard, and they all felt soft and weak compared to the stock Green Spacebar I felt in 2 separate Ducky DK9008G2 Pro Limited Editions w/ Greens. It's really weird but true. I regret selling my Ducky Greens but I'm currently brainwashed and will do anything to finish my custom keyboard with Ergo-Clears :)) I have everything and now I'm just waiting for my Filco to arrive, which is on it's way :cool:
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Great write up dudes,
I agree with points on both sides, but in the end sold off my S2 with clears pretty quick. They just weren't the switch for me - and with the difficulty of modding factory plated switches I couldn't justify keeping it.
Still would love to try lubed ergo's they sound lourvely! Also bursting with topre love after several days with my fc660c ;D
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Great write up dudes,
I agree with points on both sides, but in the end sold off my S2 with clears pretty quick. They just weren't the switch for me - and with the difficulty of modding factory plated switches I couldn't justify keeping it.
Still would love to try lubed ergo's they sound lourvely! Also bursting with topre love after several days with my fc660c ;D
You should definitely try lubed Ergo-Clears when you can! Even though I haven't built my full keyboard yet, I've made and soldered Ergo-Clears with 3 different types of springs into my practice board, and they feel amazing!
My next keyboard purchase will definitely be the FC660C as soon as they bring out the white one :P
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I've had the Ducky Shine 2 with Clears for about a month. I, like the other owners, find it a little "spongy", especially when I compare it to the three Keycool Limited Edition (plate mounted) Clears that I "invested" in last year. Therefore, the Ducky has been sitting in a closet. This morning I decided to try an experiment. I put a set of 37 PBT keycaps on the Ducky (a $20 set that I purchased from Qtang). It makes a big difference in the feel, when compared to the other keys on the board. The keys feel smoother, less spongy, and more responsive. Of course the PBTs didn't do anything to the switch - They just interact and transfer the action differently. So, if you're a bit disappointed with the keyboard, you might want to try different keycaps.
Good luck, and here's some shots of the change.
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Just like how I did it in my video :) Eventually put full PBT's because it makes such a drastic difference. Also sounds better!
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Just like how I did it in my video :) Eventually put full PBT's because it makes such a drastic difference. Also sounds better!
I forgot the about the sound... You are 100% correct... Now they're closer to a "thock".
Gonna go watch your video.
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Just like how I did it in my video :) Eventually put full PBT's because it makes such a drastic difference. Also sounds better!
I forgot the about the sound... You are 100% correct... Now they're closer to a "thock".
Gonna go watch your video.
The great thing about thin white PBT's on a Ducky Shine is that the lighting effect is better than the stock keycaps because the legends on the stock ABS keycaps are covered by your fingers when you type. The thin white PBT keycaps act like a window for light :P
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This makes me wonder how the [probable] Clears will feel in the upcoming Duckies with thick stock PBT caps. I'm thinking of getting one for my OH, who seems do find my favorite Browns too light and even called my filco's MX Blacks easy to bottom out (and did not like the linear nature of those switches). Without lubricating (I won't have proper equipment to do any switch modding for quite a while), do you think stock Clears are not too much more effort vs MX Blacks? And should the thick OEM profile PBT caps improve the experience? I know everyone loooves their Ergo Clears, but I don't hear enough praise for stock Clears (which is all I can have for now, until I find access to proper tools).
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This makes me wonder how the [probable] Clears will feel in the upcoming Duckies with thick stock PBT caps. I'm thinking of getting one for my OH, who seems do find my favorite Browns too light and even called my filco's MX Blacks easy to bottom out (and did not like the linear nature of those switches). Without lubricating (I won't have proper equipment to do any switch modding for quite a while), do you think stock Clears are not too much more effort vs MX Blacks? And should the thick OEM profile PBT caps improve the experience? I know everyone loooves their Ergo Clears, but I don't hear enough praise for stock Clears (which is all I can have for now, until I find access to proper tools).
Stock clears are about the same stiffness as Cherry MX Black in terms of feel so I wouldn't worry about that. You'll learn to type on Clears so that you'll lift off after actuation/bump, and it's actually a pretty light switch if you do it that way. I think the stock Clears (with PBT's) feel awesome and I absolutely love it, but you have to take into consideration that I enjoy a long rough tactile bump. The stock Clears are really as tactile as a Cherry MX switch can get.
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This makes me wonder how the [probable] Clears will feel in the upcoming Duckies with thick stock PBT caps. I'm thinking of getting one for my OH, who seems do find my favorite Browns too light and even called my filco's MX Blacks easy to bottom out (and did not like the linear nature of those switches). Without lubricating (I won't have proper equipment to do any switch modding for quite a while), do you think stock Clears are not too much more effort vs MX Blacks? And should the thick OEM profile PBT caps improve the experience? I know everyone loooves their Ergo Clears, but I don't hear enough praise for stock Clears (which is all I can have for now, until I find access to proper tools).
Take a look at the force data and diagrams:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/faqs.php?faq=mechanical_switch_difference
Also, how your OH reacts to your (I think) plate mounted switches will be different than the same switches on a PCB mounted board.
And, if your OH is bottoming out on blacks, and doesn't want to bottom out, a White (Milk), Green, or Gray switch board may be a better choice.
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Take a look at the force data and diagrams:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/faqs.php?faq=mechanical_switch_difference
Also, how your OH reacts to your (I think) plate mounted switches will be different than the same switches on a PCB mounted board.
And, if your OH is bottoming out on blacks, and doesn't want to bottom out, a White (Milk), Green, or Gray switch board may be a better choice.
Thanks. The Ducky boards are plate-mounted though, as are all of mine. Also those other switches are either clicky or probably too heavy. My guess now is that [lubed] stock Clears might be best.
Stock clears are about the same stiffness as Cherry MX Black in terms of feel so I wouldn't worry about that. You'll learn to type on Clears so that you'll lift off after actuation/bump, and it's actually a pretty light switch if you do it that way. I think the stock Clears (with PBT's) feel awesome and I absolutely love it, but you have to take into consideration that I enjoy a long rough tactile bump. The stock Clears are really as tactile as a Cherry MX switch can get.
Thank you :)
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The Shine 2s are PCB mounted... Are the 3s going to be Plate mounted?
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The Shine 2's are plate mounted?
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The Shine 2's are plate mounted?
http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK9087_shine2.html
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=296
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Oh the TKL shine 2s should be plate-mounted, that's what I was thinking of (got one with Browns on the way). I assumed the full sized version was the same. Looks like the new PBT boards are PCB-mounted--so then I won't need to desolder to lubricate--niiice!
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I believe MK.com's information is a mistake. They have all Ducky's as PCB mounted, except my DK9008 is plate mounted, as I've opened it and modded it before. The ducky link doesn't say anything about PCB mounted. I believe all Ducky keyboards are plate-mounted. I owned the Ducky Shine 2's with Clears and I can tell you confidently that there was a plate under the switches :)
Looks like the new PBT boards are PCB-mounted--so then I won't need to desolder to lubricate--niiice!
If this is true, I don't know how to feel. I like my metal plates, and I would rather desolder/solder mod than have no plate. Unless, the new Ducky's are going to have a custom plate... i'm getting confused here... I'm pretty sure Ducky will keep their keyboards plate-mounted.
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Oh the TKL shine 2s should be plate-mounted, that's what I was thinking of (got one with Browns on the way). I assumed the full sized version was the same. Looks like the new PBT boards are PCB-mounted--so then I won't need to desolder to lubricate--niiice!
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com does list the 9087 Shine 2s as "Plate Mounted", but I don't think that they are:
http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK9087_shine2.html
(PCB two-sided routing, safety guaranteed)
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All Duckys are plate mounted. The PCB comment is that it's a two-sided PCB. If Ducky ever got rid of their plate they would make a big deal out of it.
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Oh the TKL shine 2s should be plate-mounted, that's what I was thinking of (got one with Browns on the way). I assumed the full sized version was the same. Looks like the new PBT boards are PCB-mounted--so then I won't need to desolder to lubricate--niiice!
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com does list the 9087 Shine 2s as "Plate Mounted", but I don't think that they are:
http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/en/DK9087_shine2.html
(PCB two-sided routing, safety guaranteed)
Double sided PCB has nothing to do with PCB mounting. Filco's have double sided PCB and they're plate-mounted.
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Ok thank you for clarifying--I was sure they were all plate-mounted and got temporarily excited at the prospect of not having to desolder. But that is not to be.
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Ok thank you for clarifying--I was sure they were all plate-mounted and got temporarily excited at the prospect of not having to desolder. But that is not to be.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad new :(
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Ok thank you for clarifying--I was sure they were all plate-mounted and got temporarily excited at the prospect of not having to desolder. But that is not to be.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad new :(
No big deal--I really didn't think they were PCB-mounted until this discussion tonight, and it got corrected quickly anyway. It was like "Oh, really?!! Could it be..?!!! Okay, nevermind, moving along :D" I prefer plate-mounted anyway for stability and protecting the PCB.
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No big deal--I really didn't think they were PCB-mounted until this discussion tonight, and it got corrected quickly anyway. It was like "Oh, really?!! Could it be..?!!! Okay, nevermind, moving along :D" I prefer plate-mounted anyway for stability and protecting the PCB.
You know what's good for you :cool:
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I'm also grateful that others have readjusted my thinking... which goes to show that you can teach an old dog a new trick (or two).
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I'm also grateful that others have readjusted my thinking... which goes to show that you can teach an old dog a new trick (or two).
I learn something new here all the time too :) Glad we could be of help :cool: