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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Hyde on Sat, 20 April 2013, 18:03:37
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I thought HHKB is a Japanese company and Leopold is a Korean company no?
But I kind of remember seeing posts that Leopold is gonna carry Topre switch in one of their new keyboard unless they bought the right to use the switch.
Though I also do remember other instances where it would look like they're somehow connected to each other (Like this http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cases).
Anyone know anything about this?
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No.
The only relation is the fact that they both use topre switches (recently, Leopold). Completely different entities, unlike Realforce and Leopold products made by the same manufacturer.
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HHKB is a division of PFU corporation, Japan.
Leopold is a division of Topre. Leopolds are made in Korea, but I believe the Topre switches are made in Japan. I need to look that up
Topre manufactures the switches used in both HHKB and Realforces, and now Leopolds.
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I see, so Leopold is owned by Topre and HHKB is a separate company.
I think I was confused because I thought Topre is Japanese and Leopold is Korean. Or is Leopold made from Korea but not really a Korean company? I've also heard a few members report that some batch of Leopold keyboards are made in Taiwan and some are made in China.
lol confusing.......
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HHKB is a division of PFU corporation, Japan.
Leopold is a division of Topre. Leopolds are made in Korea, but I believe the Topre switches are made in Japan. I need to look that up
Topre manufactures the switches used in both HHKB and Realforces, and now Leopolds.
Well TIL....
:D
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HHKB is not a company. HHKB is a brand of PFU Limited. PFU Limited is not a distinct company but a subdivision of Fujitsu. Which should not be confused with Siemens-Fujitsu, which is an entirely different corporate entity. Or Fuji Electric, entirely unrelated.
And this makes even less sense when you realize that PFU is a Fujitsu "catchall" division. No, seriously. Try and make sense of this history! (http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/en/profile/history.html) Confused as to what they do yet and who owns them?
Unoke Electronic Industries (Hitachi) -> USAC (UEI/Hitachi/Panasonic I think?) -> USAC + PANAFACOM Merger into PFU USAC
PANAFACOM (Fujitsu, Fuji Electric, Matsu****a) -> Merger into PFU USAC
Mind, I have NO idea how when or why it went to sole Fujitsu control. Most likely sometime in the 1990's. PFU also happens to do Fujitsu Four-Walls management for North America, or did in the past. Yes, they are even more confusing to deal with on a daily basis than this.
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Confusing, indeed.... lol
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I don't think Leopold has anything to do with Topre besides now being a licensee to use their switches. In Korea they are merely a distributor. As you may notice they also sell or sold other brands on their site like Vortex, Cherry, Ducky, Filco...
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OK !! I think I can answer your question
for Leopold new keyboard use Topre switch , that is OEM project in Topre (just like PFU make OEM project in Topre , and that keyboard is famous --- HHKB )
and Topre don't sell their S/W , Topre only make OEM project !!
I thought HHKB is a Japanese company and Leopold is a Korean company no?
But I kind of remember seeing posts that Leopold is gonna carry Topre switch in one of their new keyboard unless they bought the right to use the switch.
Though I also do remember other instances where it would look like they're somehow connected to each other (Like this http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cases).
Anyone know anything about this?
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HHKB is keyboard name or brand of PFU. PFU is a Japanese company of Fujitsu group and owned 100% by Fujitsu. Leopold is a Korean keyboard seller/company and a client of Topre keyboard division.
TIL: P.F.U.＝Pana-Facom-Usac http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFU
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I feel more confused after reading this thread then I did before I started.
The back of my Realforce box says it's manufactured by Topre Corporation (in Japan) and distributed by Leopold internationally.
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I feel more confused after reading this thread then I did before I started.
The back of my Realforce box says it's manufactured by Topre Corporation (in Japan) and distributed by Leopold internationally.
I honestly don't really care who, what, where, when or why they were made. I loves me my CUP RUBBER.
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I thought HHKB is a Japanese company and Leopold is a Korean company no?
But I kind of remember seeing posts that Leopold is gonna carry Topre switch in one of their new keyboard unless they bought the right to use the switch.
Though I also do remember other instances where it would look like they're somehow connected to each other (Like this http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=access,cases).
Anyone know anything about this?
To avoid confusion and wrong assumption just because of the type of the switch, I think you should start with Topre_OEM (Topre Original equipment manufacturer)
http://deskthority.net/wiki/Topre_OEM_Keyboards
The first keyboard that I think directly related to Topre itself is Real Force:
http://www.topre.co.jp/e/products/comp/realforce_index.html
Other than that, IMO, if there is no official confirmation from Topre, we should not tie them together.
Anyway, we should trust the quality of the product rather than the brand.
Indeed, HHKB is a legendary keyboard. However, as you can see in several topics, if breaking down the keyboard into pieces, the new Topre OEM product, Leopold FC660C has a high quality board, it does not matter it is made in China or Taiwan or elsewhere.
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I feel more confused after reading this thread then I did before I started.
The back of my Realforce box says it's manufactured by Topre Corporation (in Japan) and distributed by Leopold internationally.
I honestly don't really care who, what, where, when or why they were made. I loves me my CUP RUBBER.
It is OK. To use the keyboard this is not necessity.
But wrong information should be corrected and I think the community worked well in this thread.
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Oh, this is where it gets real fun, actually.
So here's how it works. Topre manufactures all Topre switch keyboards to my knowledge. (Not sure if it's direct or indirect.) But they do not have a distribution channel for keyboards - their primary industries are things like refrigerated trucks, industrial paint application, you get the idea.
So let's cover the brands etcetera.
Realforce - trademark and brand owned by Topre, see here (http://www.trademarkia.com/realforce-85625218.html)
PFU Limited - contract customer of Topre for HHKB.
Leopold - Leopold is only the distributor for only the 87U (http://www.topre.co.jp/e/products/comp/realforce_index.html).
Diatec - AKA Filco! Distributor for 91UDK-G, 91UBY (Yellow)
JUSTSYSTEM - 91ATOX (programmable key version?)
ILOVEX - The green and yellow monstrosity. (http://www.ilovex.co.jp/info/event/2010/04/post_20.html)
EliteKeyboards - Exclusive United States distributor (all models) to my knowledge.
Now we're really confused, no? Here's how supply chain works for Realforce, abridged version.
Topre makes keyboards -> keyboards go to MAIN distribution -> shipped to regional distributor (think Ingram Micro, TechData equivalent) -> regional ships to retail -> you buy your keyboard from retail.
Topre makes contract order keyboard -> keyboards go to contract customer (e.g. PFU, ILOVEX) directly -> contract customer supply chain
So for example, with the 87U what they might do is just ship all of them to Leopold who then sells and ships to retail (e.g. EK) so that Topre doesn't have to worry about any of it. So technically they're all distributed by Leopold, since Leopold is handling the distribution chain. But for a 105U they might ship direct to certain retailers, and through distributors for other regions. Leopold won't sell them to other retail channels in the US because EK has an exclusivity agreement, but is free to sell them to anyone they want in say, Japan or Taiwan or Europe. It's very complicated and confusing, yes.
And believe it or not, this is entirely normal for Japan. The process for buying Fujitsu SPARC gear (SPARC is huge in Japan thanks to Fujitsu, too) in North America and not just Sun^WOracle-rebadged Fujitsu is virtually impossible. Getting Fujitsu storage in North America? Yeah, I wouldn't recommend even attempting it if you value your sanity. And it's not just Fujitsu - it's pretty much everyone except Hitachi Data Systems (which is a subsidiary of Hitachi Corporation who also sells nuclear reactors and construction equipment.) Their distribution and sales channels are all nightmares.
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Dat green case..... want it.
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Oh, this is where it gets real fun, actually.
So here's how it works. Topre manufactures all Topre switch keyboards to my knowledge. (Not sure if it's direct or indirect.) But they do not have a distribution channel for keyboards - their primary industries are things like refrigerated trucks, industrial paint application, you get the idea.
So let's cover the brands etcetera.
Realforce - trademark and brand owned by Topre, see here (http://www.trademarkia.com/realforce-85625218.html)
PFU Limited - contract customer of Topre for HHKB.
Leopold - Leopold is only the distributor for only the 87U (http://www.topre.co.jp/e/products/comp/realforce_index.html).
Diatec - AKA Filco! Distributor for 91UDK-G, 91UBY (Yellow)
JUSTSYSTEM - 91ATOX (programmable key version?)
ILOVEX - The green and yellow monstrosity. (http://www.ilovex.co.jp/info/event/2010/04/post_20.html)
EliteKeyboards - Exclusive United States distributor (all models) to my knowledge.
Now we're really confused, no? Here's how supply chain works for Realforce, abridged version.
Topre makes keyboards -> keyboards go to MAIN distribution -> shipped to regional distributor (think Ingram Micro, TechData equivalent) -> regional ships to retail -> you buy your keyboard from retail.
Topre makes contract order keyboard -> keyboards go to contract customer (e.g. PFU, ILOVEX) directly -> contract customer supply chain
So for example, with the 87U what they might do is just ship all of them to Leopold who then sells and ships to retail (e.g. EK) so that Topre doesn't have to worry about any of it. So technically they're all distributed by Leopold, since Leopold is handling the distribution chain. But for a 105U they might ship direct to certain retailers, and through distributors for other regions. Leopold won't sell them to other retail channels in the US because EK has an exclusivity agreement, but is free to sell them to anyone they want in say, Japan or Taiwan or Europe. It's very complicated and confusing, yes.
And believe it or not, this is entirely normal for Japan. The process for buying Fujitsu SPARC gear (SPARC is huge in Japan thanks to Fujitsu, too) in North America and not just Sun^WOracle-rebadged Fujitsu is virtually impossible. Getting Fujitsu storage in North America? Yeah, I wouldn't recommend even attempting it if you value your sanity. And it's not just Fujitsu - it's pretty much everyone except Hitachi Data Systems (which is a subsidiary of Hitachi Corporation who also sells nuclear reactors and construction equipment.) Their distribution and sales channels are all nightmares.
Nice post! That actually clears it up quite well.
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Thanks for all the feedback, I've also added a Topre section in this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37861.0
:D