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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: zetan on Tue, 03 June 2008, 01:29:42

Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: zetan on Tue, 03 June 2008, 01:29:42
Anyone had a chance to try this http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1208689591 ?

It's the Realforce model only sold in Korea (not even in Japan) and I'm dying to
lay my hands on it (don't know if they sell it internationally though).

It looks somewhat like HHK Pro2 black but I wonder if different key lightness
yields a positive difference in practice.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 03 June 2008, 02:24:56
That is pretty cool, if anyone knows of an export company from Korea, please let us know.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Tue, 03 June 2008, 02:34:13
Quote from: xsphat;5079
That is pretty cool, if anyone knows of an export company from Korea, please let us know.


write me in the waiting list too :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Tue, 03 June 2008, 09:42:49
Wow, yeah that looks pretty nice.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 03 June 2008, 11:13:29
Things like this only exist to piss me off.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Tue, 03 June 2008, 11:26:55
That's a sweet-looking keyboard.  Is the option of a red "Esc" key a purely Japanese thing?  Is there any purpose to it other than making the keyboard look a bit more interesting?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 03 June 2008, 12:26:27
I agree with xsphat, its amazing to me that these keyboards exist but not available here in the states. Its like I am outside the candy store looking through the glass....

It would be nice if someone like Newegg would step up to the plate and offer keyboards like the above mentioned, along with the HHKB, Cherry's etc.
It disappoints me that the US is limited to MS natural keyboards and other membrane type keyboards....Thankfully there is Unicomp.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: jemkeys on Tue, 03 June 2008, 14:20:48
I can't find anyone else (in real life) who likes keyboards as much as I do.  You'd think that if there was a market for these keyboards anywhere, it'd be the US.  But for some reason, that's not the case.

Anyone searching for just about any high-end keyboard on google would inevitably find this forum.  Yet there's only 152 members here.  I wonder if that's any kind of a sample of US interest.

I'm in the same boat as you, bigpook.  I can't believe that in the US, where just about everybody has a computer, there is not more of a demand for these keyboards.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sjb37 on Tue, 03 June 2008, 14:24:10
http://www.nowpug.com/bbs/view.php?id=photo&no=2141
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 03 June 2008, 15:01:53
Quote from: jemkeys;5092

I'm in the same boat as you, bigpook.  I can't believe that in the US, where just about everybody has a computer, there is not more of a demand for these keyboards.


I agree, it is surprising, really, that as a culture we prize the biggest/most expensive/exclusive yada yada things : )
You see it with cars, houses and clothes, plastic surgery and dental care.
On computers there is a fair amount of interest in mice and monitors, but for some reason the keyboard gets short shrift.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Tue, 03 June 2008, 16:47:47
Quote from: jemkeys;5092
I can't find anyone else (in real life) who likes keyboards as much as I do.  You'd think that if there was a market for these keyboards anywhere, it'd be the US.  But for some reason, that's not the case.

Anyone searching for just about any high-end keyboard on google would inevitably find this forum.  Yet there's only 152 members here.  I wonder if that's any kind of a sample of US interest.

I'm in the same boat as you, bigpook.  I can't believe that in the US, where just about everybody has a computer, there is not more of a demand for these keyboards.


Like yourself, I find it hard to believe myself. Especially with as many IT workers there are in this country. It completely amazes me on the smaller number of options that available for the one electronic device that people likely spend more time with then their families (IT workers).

When I was in Japan a few years go, it's COMPLETELY obvious that they are in tuned with electrionics and it's not just a stereotype that we have about japanese way of life. When I was riding on the subway you could see grandmothers sending text messages on their cell phones (as an american this was the funnies thing to see).

I can only assume this is the reason why Asia has more options when it comes to eletronics... namely computer keyboards.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Eclairz on Tue, 03 June 2008, 17:09:46
Quote from: bigpook;5094
I agree, it is surprising, really, that as a culture we prize the biggest/most expensive/exclusive yada yada things : )
You see it with cars, houses and clothes, plastic surgery and dental care.
On computers there is a fair amount of interest in mice and monitors, but for some reason the keyboard gets short shrift.


Nah Americans seem to get the biggest stuff
So if you think keyboards then it would have to be the biggest keyboard therefore full size.

If you take that analogy further, Americans of old did not care for smaller more versatile cars before, e.g. honda civic, ford focus, which if you think about it are more better driving cars than their heavier bigger saloon bigger brothers e.g. accord, mondeo. These cars have more "features" but do not get the basics driving as good as the smaller cars. This goes with keyboards where the more "keys" the better, without a second thought about how good each key feels beneath the finger. So you start to see these keyboards grow multimedia and macro keys which are convenient but are not necessary to typing experience.

Basically a largish proportion(over 50%) of Americans do not value quality goods, otherwise people would be spend much less money on Chinese goods. And this is not just an American idealism anymore, the rest of the world has this problem. Niches are no longer filled they are ignored or worked around.

The problem is people have become too reliant on numbers, you see this everywhere, where numbers are used to provide a tangible or physical means of being measured. E.g. car size, engine size, camera megapixels, keyboard keys, screen size, cpu speed, etc

They make it easier to compare different products and services, but they do not allow people to compare intangible feelings like, feel (using a keyboard), work flow (no number pad so i can move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse faster), experience (hearing keys so i can respond quicker to typing and type faster by not bottoming out my keyboard), robustness (feels like a tank, therefore i believe it should last like a tank, no need for warranty with these sorts of things)

This is the type of intangible qualities people are beginning to ignore because it cannot be translated into words as easily and reviewers put much more emphasis on stuff they can compare and not on what they believe to be unimportant and not worth the cost. Look at the many reviews who look at DAS keyboards and the hhkb pro2 look at their shocked expressions at the price of the keyboard, they often think the cost of the board is to do with the blank keys (which actually are more likely to reduce the cost rather than increase it) as they believe it is a keyboard used to help people to touch type. But actually the cost is for the special key switches which they do not value, and say "it has a nice action" and leave a one line comment.

With people relying on reviews more than ever before the whole world will start to lose quality products because they are not understood. The only products today where intangibles are more stronger than ever are in fashion, but then girls are always more in tune with their intangible side than ever from where there's an extra inch of sleave to positioning of the bag strap to the bag. Now think for a moment and consider everything you've bought
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: nrp on Tue, 03 June 2008, 17:37:31
If anyone finds out how to bring one of these to US, please post here.

Thanks.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: nrp on Tue, 03 June 2008, 17:45:00
More info

http://objcguy.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/topre-realforce-86-space-saver-aka-10-keyless/
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 03 June 2008, 18:31:25
Quote from: Eclairz;5097
Nah Americans seem to get the biggest stuff
So if you think keyboards then it would have to be the biggest keyboard therefore full size.

If you take that analogy further, Americans of old did not care for smaller more versatile cars before, e.g. honda civic, ford focus, which if you think about it are more better driving cars than their heavier bigger saloon bigger brothers e.g. accord, mondeo. These cars have more "features" but do not get the basics driving as good as the smaller cars. This goes with keyboards where the more "keys" the better, without a second thought about how good each key feels beneath the finger. So you start to see these keyboards grow multimedia and macro keys which are convenient but are not necessary to typing experience.

Basically a largish proportion(over 50%) of Americans do not value quality goods, otherwise people would be spend much less money on Chinese goods. And this is not just an American idealism anymore, the rest of the world has this problem. Niches are no longer filled they are ignored or worked around.

The problem is people have become too reliant on numbers, you see this everywhere, where numbers are used to provide a tangible or physical means of being measured. E.g. car size, engine size, camera megapixels, keyboard keys, screen size, cpu speed, etc

They make it easier to compare different products and services, but they do not allow people to compare intangible feelings like, feel (using a keyboard), work flow (no number pad so i can move my hand from the keyboard to the mouse faster), experience (hearing keys so i can respond quicker to typing and type faster by not bottoming out my keyboard), robustness (feels like a tank, therefore i believe it should last like a tank, no need for warranty with these sorts of things)

This is the type of intangible qualities people are beginning to ignore because it cannot be translated into words as easily and reviewers put much more emphasis on stuff they can compare and not on what they believe to be unimportant and not worth the cost. Look at the many reviews who look at DAS keyboards and the hhkb pro2 look at their shocked expressions at the price of the keyboard, they often think the cost of the board is to do with the blank keys (which actually are more likely to reduce the cost rather than increase it) as they believe it is a keyboard used to help people to touch type. But actually the cost is for the special key switches which they do not value, and say "it has a nice action" and leave a one line comment.

With people relying on reviews more than ever before the whole world will start to lose quality products because they are not understood. The only products today where intangibles are more stronger than ever are in fashion, but then girls are always more in tune with their intangible side than ever from where there's an extra inch of sleave to positioning of the bag strap to the bag. Now think for a moment and consider everything you've bought


Sorry for the massive quote, but well said Eclairz.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: djones on Tue, 03 June 2008, 18:55:11
whoa, this is exactly the keyboard I was looking for in this thread: http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=473

But I don't see it on diatec's site...
http://www.diatec.co.jp
?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 04 June 2008, 02:30:36
What's the connection between Diatec, Filco and Topre? Is Diatec the Japanese distributor for both companies?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Wed, 04 June 2008, 02:33:42
Quote from: sofa king;5113
What's the connection between Diatec, Filco and Topre? Is Diatec the Japanese distributor for both companies?


That's my guess too, but I have no idea if it's right. Reading Engrish translations makes the writer in me die a little every time, so I haven't read up on it.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Wed, 04 June 2008, 02:59:40
Quote from: xsphat;5114
That's my guess too, but I have no idea if it's right. Reading Engrish translations makes the writer in me die a little every time, so I haven't read up on it.


Taken from their site: "FILCO" is the registered trade mark of DIATEC Corporation.

It seems to me, that Topre, a company which makes a lot of things (many of which industrial)  uses DIATEC to sell their computer components, which still doesn't make any sense for me..
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 04 June 2008, 04:06:47
So they produce Filco and sell Topre - what I'd consider as competition - too? You're right, it doesn't make any sense.

So who is going to contact Diatec about the 86? And who is going to contact Leopold? Leopold actually is a german name so maybe I should contact them.

Still not sure if I can justify the cost though, esp. with the nice transparent cover and the hand rest. Which I couldn't justify for the HHKB either. Which I regret now.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: djones on Wed, 04 June 2008, 04:51:51
Quote from: sashomasho;5115
Taken from their site: "FILCO" is the registered trade mark of DIATEC Corporation.

It seems to me, that Topre, a company which makes a lot of things (many of which industrial)  uses DIATEC to sell their computer components, which still doesn't make any sense for me..


Yes, Filco is a registered trademark of diatech and their own product. Topre is another company and diatech is one of their many retailers: http://www.topre.co.jp/products/comp/key_shop.html (a list of topre retailers, in japanese). I just remembered that I can read/write japanese so I'll look into some of the online resellers and see if any of them have the topre 86 yet (and if any of them have lower prices on existing boards). Note that it's not at all uncommon for a manufacturer to not have a retail branch...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Wed, 04 June 2008, 05:13:47
Quote from: djones;5117
I just remembered that I can read/write japanese so I'll look into some of the online resellers and see if any of them have the topre 86 yet (and if any of them have lower prices on existing boards). Note that it's not at all uncommon for a manufacturer to not have a retail branch...


You just remembered? This made my day :) So you are our hope, or we can say - the chosen one :) This keyboard is what I was dreaming of - hhkb keys, ibm model m spacesaver layout... i just realized, i need this keyboard badly :(
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 04 June 2008, 05:18:04
I just don't understand Diatec selling the products of a direct competitor.

Anyway, I babelfished my way through the Leopold website and contacted them about international sales. I hope. :-)

They call themselves an import/export company so it might work.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Wed, 04 June 2008, 05:34:54
Quote from: sofa king;5119
I just don't understand Diatec selling the products of a direct competitor.

They are not in direct competition if you look at a price point of view, the cheapest realforce is more expensive than the top filco models, so probably diatec have decided that selling topre keyboards will not hurt their own sales...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 04 June 2008, 05:50:28
Now that makes sense.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Wed, 04 June 2008, 08:02:42
makes as much sense as Pontiac selling the Toyota Matrix re-branded as the Vibe.  :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Wed, 04 June 2008, 09:13:52
I was surprised to see the Dell US website selling all kinds of LCD monitors including all the main competitors models.  They don't do that on the UK site.  It must happen all the time though.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: ashort on Wed, 04 June 2008, 10:13:01
Quote from: zetan;5078
Anyone had a chance to try this http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1208689591 ?

It's the Realforce model only sold in Korea (not even in Japan) and I'm dying to
lay my hands on it (don't know if they sell it internationally though).

It looks somewhat like HHK Pro2 black but I wonder if different key lightness
yields a positive difference in practice.


I....want....one.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Wed, 04 June 2008, 10:27:11
Quote from: ashort;5124
I....want....one.

I don't necessarily want one.  If it had blue cherrys or buckling springs, that might put me over the edge.  But I, basically, have those same capacitive keyswitches in a form factor I like better. (HHKB Pro, of course)

Does anyone have the dimensions of that board?  I would hope it is significantly smaller than the 84-key spacesaver (model m).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Wed, 04 June 2008, 10:42:48
I prefer the Realforce's more conventional layout.  With the software I use there are already enough keyboard short cuts for me to remember without having to learn new ones, although the HHKB2 Pro is undoubtedly one of the best looking keyboards i've seen.  It must sound superficial of me to want something that looks as good as it performs, but with the price of some of these devices I would expect a little style and flair to be included.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 04 June 2008, 10:43:54
dimensions: 366.0 x 168.5mm = 14.4 x 6.6"
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 04 June 2008, 10:45:30
If it had buckling springs it would be a mighty mouse keyboard, no?

The one that unicomp is working on.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Wed, 04 June 2008, 11:08:58
Quote from: bigpook;5128
If it had buckling springs it would be a mighty mouse keyboard, no?

The one that unicomp is working on.

Well, I'm hoping the new mighty mouse is a BIT smaller than that...much like the old mighty mouse.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great keyboard offering and I certainly hope the folks here that have been waiting for such a beast will soon be able to get their hands on one.  

My layout preference is the HHKB layout.  My second choice is the one featured on the Realforce 86 (as well as many other keyboards...including the Model M's).  I like the blue cherry switches best, followed by buckling springs, and thirdly, the feel of the HHKB Pro.  They are close enough that, currently, the layout of the HHKB is what sways me.  But give me my second favorite layout with the blue cherries, and I may very well be tempted.  :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: djones on Wed, 04 June 2008, 11:48:18
Quote from: sashomasho;5118
You just remembered? This made my day :) So you are our hope, or we can say - the chosen one :) This keyboard is what I was dreaming of - hhkb keys, ibm model m spacesaver layout... i just realized, i need this keyboard badly :(


I forget because I'm almost never at a machine that has Japanese support enabled; and when I look up something that's japanese online, it automatically takes me to the english site, so it never occurs to me that there was, like, a japanese version of the internet out there. I'll look into it when I have more time.

Quote from: iMav;5129
My layout preference is the HHKB layout.  My second choice is the one featured on the Realforce 86 (as well as many other keyboards...including the Model M's).  I like the blue cherry switches best, followed by buckling springs, and thirdly, the feel of the HHKB Pro.


To each his own-- my rank in terms of key feel is 1) hhkb pro II, 2) blue cherries, 3) brown cherries. buckling springs doesn't make it on my list.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Wed, 04 June 2008, 12:43:10
Quote from: djones;5131

To each his own-- my rank in terms of key feel is 1) hhkb pro II, 2) blue cherries, 3) brown cherries. buckling springs doesn't make it on my list.


My order is Alps whites, Cherry blues, Topre capacitive, Cherry browns then buckling springs.

Like iMav, I could be swayed by a layout - the Realforce 86 layout. I think this thing rules.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: djones on Wed, 04 June 2008, 13:26:00
update:
1) I checked half the stores on the list of japanese topre vendors, none of them have it. I'll pester a few of them to see what's up.
2) It was released for sale in april this year, so it's still very new. I'll ask topre directly if they plan to release it outside korea.

Hopefully it'll be in Japan by July so I can buy it at Akihabara directly when I vist. (Yes, in japan, there is a city where there are dozens of stores where you can buy high quality keyboards at a discount).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: objcguy on Wed, 04 June 2008, 14:38:08
I have one of these.

Complaints:
1. pricey: I paid 270,000 KRW, which is roughly $270.
2. no USB port. so you can't plug in your mouse to it.
3. annoying 'windows vista' keycap.

If my main machine were a windows or linux machine I would have kept using HHKP2 but being a programmer using a Macintosh, I use arrow keys A LOT and I didn't like my right pinky got soured at the end of the day.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Wed, 04 June 2008, 14:43:01
Quote from: objcguy;5139
I have one of these.

Welcome to geekhack objcguy.

Do the keys feel pretty much the same as the HHKB Pro's?  Got any detailed pics?  (saw a few on your blog, but would love to see some high res ones)

I think we have quite a few folks here interested in this keyboard...so expect several questions shortly.  :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Wed, 04 June 2008, 20:27:22
Quote from: iMav;5129
Well, I'm hoping the new mighty mouse is a BIT smaller than that...much like the old mighty mouse.

Don't get me wrong, I think this is a great keyboard offering and I certainly hope the folks here that have been waiting for such a beast will soon be able to get their hands on one.  

My layout preference is the HHKB layout.  My second choice is the one featured on the Realforce 86 (as well as many other keyboards...including the Model M's).  I like the blue cherry switches best, followed by buckling springs, and thirdly, the feel of the HHKB Pro.  They are close enough that, currently, the layout of the HHKB is what sways me.  But give me my second favorite layout with the blue cherries, and I may very well be tempted.  :)

The Realforce 86 is very appealing to me since it closely reminds me of my model m spacesaver. I haven't tried anything with cherry blues yet and looks like the das III would be the one to get when it ships, just because it has cherry blues ( which from what I have been reading here are clicky in nature).

I have yet to make the leap to the HHKB Pro2, so I don't have anything with the capacitve switches yet, but would be very willing to try out the Realforce 86.
I have a HHKB lite and like it enough to bring it to work on occasion, the dedicated arrow keys are a plus, which is one of the things that keeps me from the HHKB Pro 2.

Now if unicomp delivers on the mighty mouse with buckling springs I would be very happy. But it remains to be seen if they actually ship it (I have my doubts).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: djones on Fri, 06 June 2008, 01:01:38
From a japanese bulletin board on 5/23/08, by a japanese keyboard fanboy: "韓国で発売した86鍵を日本でも売ってくれってメールしたら発売する予定だからもうちょっと待って". He says he emailed topre and they replied that it will be on sale in japan "shortly".
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 06 June 2008, 01:05:11
That is pretty bad ass. Who's buying one?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Fri, 06 June 2008, 01:34:50
Quote from: xsphat;5175
That is pretty bad ass. Who's buying one?


I really hope that it will be available at benippon anytime soon, I'll definitely take one..
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Fri, 06 June 2008, 02:40:07
Quote from: sashomasho;5176
I really hope that it will be available at benippon anytime soon, I'll definitely take one..

I can confirm that BeNippon does not yet have access to these. . .

"Yes, indeed it is very popular. But unfortunately we have no way to put our hands on it."
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 06 June 2008, 02:41:12
Soon iMav, hopefully soon.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Fri, 06 June 2008, 04:20:55
Quote from: xsphat;5178
Soon iMav, hopefully soon.


have patience, young paduan :)

when i first saw realforce 89/91 i just hoped that sooner or later the would make one with the english layout... now when they have made it and i know it's selling somwhere there, it becomes more and more difficult to wait and hope...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 06 June 2008, 04:26:29
Quote from: sashomasho;5180
have patience, young paduan


Hey, any true Star Wars geek knows it's spelled padawan ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padawan#Jedi_ranks
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Fri, 06 June 2008, 08:29:23
No reply from Leopold yet (and probably won't come).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: zetan on Mon, 25 August 2008, 22:38:34
Hmm... can't wait until (early) September when they'll actually release a Realforce space saver model (realforce 86 :) Hope all-key 30g version of Realforce 86 will follow soon after!
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: zetan on Mon, 25 August 2008, 22:42:27
Quote from: sofa king;5183
No reply from Leopold yet (and probably won't come).


They are all out of stock. Believe me, I checked them all. Better to wait for Realforce 86 that'll be released in Japan instead :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 25 August 2008, 22:57:56
are you sure this is going to happen?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: zetan on Mon, 25 August 2008, 23:09:39
Yes, I'm pretty sure. I talked with one of them recently. In addition, I heard that there is a shop in Japan that already started selling an 86 (though Topre hasn't officially released it yet). What I'm not sure though is whether there'll be an all-key 30g version of realforce 86, which is the one i REALLY want.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 25 August 2008, 23:33:55
I can not wait. I sold my HHKB Pro 2 and I need me some Topre capacitive love.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 26 August 2008, 00:24:54
-
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 26 August 2008, 00:31:32
-
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 26 August 2008, 00:38:17
-
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 26 August 2008, 01:40:51
Quote from: victheslik;7932
Sorry for posting again, but you have got to check out the title of this review

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&u=http://www.pcline.co.kr/bbs/bbs/board.php%3Fbo_table%3Dreview_hw%26wr_id%3D585&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=6&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DRealforce%2B86%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*%26pwst%3D1

Scroll down to where the english starts and read the title, now you know with a title like that this keyboard has to be "pimpin" according to xsphat :)

-victheslik


I'm XsPhat, and I approve this message.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Tue, 26 August 2008, 01:53:37
Quote from: victheslik;7931
http://www.buythekorea.com/buy/board.php?board=memberpage&command=shop&view=9_help&exe=items_write_form


So...when you ordering yours xsphat???
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 26 August 2008, 01:57:44
As soon as my school money comes.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 26 August 2008, 02:00:49
-
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 26 August 2008, 02:08:43
Depends. If it's available from Japan by the end of the second week of Sept. If it is, I'll go through a service I know about. If not, I may get f'ed over.

How did you hear about them? Do you know if they are ligit?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 26 August 2008, 02:16:42
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 26 August 2008, 02:26:07
Quote from: victheslik;7938
So yeah would you like to answer the question I posted above kekek :P

-victheslik

What is this, an interrogation?
Title: Realforce86U
Post by: zillidot on Tue, 26 August 2008, 06:11:54
Stumbled across this a moment ago, looks like it's finally arrived in Japan:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vshopu.com%2Fitem%2F2088-2004%2Findex.html&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I hope they release the same keyboard in black!
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: graywolf on Tue, 26 August 2008, 10:54:32
Quote from: zillidot;7944
Stumbled across this a moment ago, looks like it's finally arrived in Japan:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vshopu.com%2Fitem%2F2088-2004%2Findex.html&sl=ja&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I hope they release the same keyboard in black!

$199, better grab one. Oops, don't have $200 bucks. It does look like a modernized version of the IBM Space Saver doesn't it?

Earlier in this thread there were some comments complaining about stuff like this and the HHKB not being available in the USA.
The most obvious reason is that American corporations are not interested in selling anything that they can not make $100 million at. So niche markets go unfilled. The second is that economically the USA is now a **** hole, most so called industrialized nations have higher wages. Third, in consumer goods we get the crap. Cheap junk. Hell did you know they are making fuel cell power mopeds in China. Japan had wrist watch cel-phones 20 years ago. Europe and the western rim of the Pacific get a lot of high tech stuff we never see. We are living in the past and 99% of us do not even have a clue, we think we have the highest standard of living and the bleeding edge of technology. Instead we have Bush.

Sorry, I get carried away sometimes. But I submit that the only way to solve a problem is to first admit you have it, pretending you don't is about the most stupid thing you can do.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Tue, 26 August 2008, 11:26:47
lol, : ) tell us how you really feel. I agree with you though. The rest of the world seems to be moving forward while the US goes on empire building.....living in the past.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Tue, 26 August 2008, 11:42:19
Imagine the US the way you described but with lazier uglier people and you've got Great Britain lol.  We're getting a lot more imported American products this last decade or so.  Unreliable cars, disgusting chemical-tasting processed foods of every description - you name it, we get it, and people lap it up!  They love that stuff here, so if you think YOU'VE got it bad, feel sorry for us V_V.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Tue, 26 August 2008, 11:57:31
Where I live you can't even buy the Nerf Vulcan. :(
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 26 August 2008, 12:22:28
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Tue, 26 August 2008, 12:43:44
Quote from: sofa king;7954
Where I live you can't even buy the Nerf Vulcan. :(


Nerf Vulcan = Win

I wish we had those when I was a kid.  The coolest thing that had come out from Nerf was the bow and arrow, but that was after I had grown out of that and started playing sports (still, nothing beats a wet nerf football for pain ;) ).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Waves77 on Tue, 26 August 2008, 13:22:22
As a european living in the US i can say we don't have it much better technology wise, although I would say we have less low quality stuff, we still don't get all the cool gizmos asian people can get their hands on, plus a lot of our prices are higher and it's not strange to see a $200 item solds for 200 EUR (at current exchange almost a %50 markup), although that's getting better.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Tue, 26 August 2008, 16:24:45
So whats the difference between this and HHKp2 switches?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Wed, 27 August 2008, 02:12:55
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Wed, 27 August 2008, 07:25:01
The Dharma Tactical came up before:

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=556

This looks like a Topre OEM product. They've done it before (OEM).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Thu, 28 August 2008, 00:14:36
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Freyth on Thu, 28 August 2008, 00:54:33
Quote from: victheslik;7998
e.e; my bad well anyways link on ebay you can buy your realforce now... just not in black with the cool red escape (sorry for bad structure and punctuation in a hurry)

http://cgi.ebay.com/English-Keyboard-Realforce86U-SE0500_W0QQitemZ260280040901QQihZ016QQcategoryZ130740QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hope that helps some of you guys that are impatient :) unless you like the white one nevermind go for it :)

-victheslik


Pricey...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Thu, 28 August 2008, 04:11:08
grr, they need to hurry and release the black one. And Benippon needs to hurry and get plenty of them in stock.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 28 August 2008, 04:35:50
Black shmack, I'm all about the white — it matches all my other keyboards except one, and it is my preferred color scheme.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Thu, 28 August 2008, 05:50:08
Pff, white.  BLACK POWER!  BLACK POWER!  Only Apple persists with mostly white computers and even those are being phased out for silver.  Most professional systems, workstations and servers, are black.  It looks slick (doesn't show dirt as much).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 August 2008, 07:33:51
Quote
doesn't show dirt as much


I have to dust my black PC components almost daily, because it is so easy to see.  My keyboards I still dust daily out of cleanliness and respect :), but, since they are old-school beige, hardly show dirt at all.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 August 2008, 07:47:17
Quote from: victheslik;7998
e.e; my bad well anyways link on ebay you can buy your realforce now... just not in black with the cool red escape (sorry for bad structure and punctuation in a hurry)

http://cgi.ebay.com/English-Keyboard-Realforce86U-SE0500_W0QQitemZ260280040901QQihZ016QQcategoryZ130740QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hope that helps some of you guys that are impatient :) unless you like the white one nevermind go for it :)

-victheslik


Quote from: Freyth;8000
Pricey...


QFT.  I went perusing their ebay store, and, while I understand everything comes from the Empire of Nippon*, everything is damn expensive.

*For some reason, we referred to Japan as having an empire when playing Axis and Allies, and the name just stuck in my head.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 28 August 2008, 09:17:26
Whats the difference between this keyboard switches and hhkpro2 ones?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 August 2008, 09:22:10
This one has a lighter keypress than the HHKB; 30g., I think.  I don't think this model has the variable-weight switches for the different fingers; I think that is the 96 model.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Thu, 28 August 2008, 10:08:27
Well the price range is not very far from the hhkp2.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: graywolf on Thu, 28 August 2008, 12:06:14
Quote from: Freyth;8000
Pricey...


About the same as a HHKBP2 by the time you get it to your door in the USA. And you get 16 more keys for the same price. :D
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Freyth on Thu, 28 August 2008, 12:54:08
Actually I was referring to the price of the keyboard sold on eBay which is about $280, way more than what the HHKB Pro2 costs.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 28 August 2008, 13:28:33
Quote from: Ulysses31;8005
Pff, white.  BLACK POWER!  BLACK POWER!  Only Apple persists with mostly white computers and even those are being phased out for silver.  Most professional systems, workstations and servers, are black.  It looks slick (doesn't show dirt as much).


Yeah, come to think of it, there isn't a single thing on Earth that comes in any color than black. Face it, silver is ugly and black is for elitists and goths.

JK.

I favor all colors above black. I don't even own any black clothes except for socks. So, all the HHKB keyboards I've owned have been bought used and are f'ing black. I hate it.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: parisnight on Thu, 28 August 2008, 14:04:30
I'm no fan of black.  I really like beige.  I'm typing on a beige mush board right now and my pants are beige.  Black is so passe.  Think Bill Gates and you'll just know style.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Thu, 28 August 2008, 14:33:09
Sadly you don't get a lot of choices other than black and white.  OK, pure white is quite nice but that creamy evaporated-milk beige is just nasty.  It's the colour of plastic that has aged and/or become dirty.  As for other colours, there used to be certain "professional" level machines in the past that came in subtle blues and greens (like SGI stuff) but they're long gone.  I don't think I could live with a harlequin computer.  For keyboards I could make some exceptions, such as those lovely keyboards designed for Photoshop/AVID etc where each key represents a shortcut and has its own colour.  That, and those lovely Filco/Topres that have a nice little red Escape key.  Trouble is I don't know which models come with the extra red keys.  iMav has the Tenkeyless which has those.  I suspect it may be N-Key Rollover types that come with extras but i'm not sure.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Thu, 28 August 2008, 14:40:31
I wish my keyboard was black, but, IMO, if you are using vintage* keyboards, they seem to look best in classic beige.  I like the asthetics of some of the newer boards (not just mechanical), but for many of them, asthetics is all there is to them.

*It's funny to think that I am calling keyboards a little over 10 years old "vintage."  I guess age is relative to the subject.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 28 August 2008, 14:49:16
Just when does vintage start for electronics? I have no problem thinking of Apple pre-G3 era stuff as vintage, and I know my Model Ms and the Northgate are.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: parisnight on Thu, 28 August 2008, 15:01:27
Quote from: Ulysses31;8033
OK, pure white is quite nice but that creamy evaporated-milk beige is just nasty.  It's the colour of plastic that has aged and/or become dirty.


That fits my definition of vintage*.  I have a lot of vintage*.  I'm vintage*.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: graywolf on Thu, 28 August 2008, 15:14:37
Another bit of inanity.

Why were the original IBM PC's beige?

Because they expected to sell them to executives, and executives would not have black stuff on or around their desk. The secretary's typewriter and telephone were black and they did not want to be mistaken for a secretary. Ah, the wonders of market research, and the changes since 1981.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: parisnight on Thu, 28 August 2008, 15:38:04
I think of black as a byproduct of the little black dress which was late 80s, 30 years ago.  Speaking of dream keyboards and mashing of eras, what would be the reaction to the IBM BS space-saver but in black. Frankenstein or a dream keyboard cooler than the Realforce 86.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Thu, 28 August 2008, 17:40:34
I would say that a IBM BS spaceaver in black with 2 piece key caps would be an excellent idea.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bhtooefr on Thu, 28 August 2008, 18:27:34
Pure white annoys me, it shows dirt too easily.

(My iBook looks filthy, my ThinkPad (which is dirtier) looks cleaner.)

And, a black keyboard tends to blend in better with modern computer equipment, but other than that, I don't really care.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 28 August 2008, 19:48:03
I want a Ferrari red case for my M mini and hot pink 2-piece keys. Next to it would be a bucket for the intermittent vomiting.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: graywolf on Fri, 29 August 2008, 11:50:08
Quote from: parisnight;8041
I think of black as a byproduct of the little black dress which was late 80s, 30 years ago.  Speaking of dream keyboards and mashing of eras, what would be the reaction to the IBM BS space-saver but in black. Frankenstein or a dream keyboard cooler than the Realforce 86.


It is called the Space Saver II. It is RD rather than BS, but most people would not know the difference, it did not sell all that well as far as I know. there is a guy with 40-50 new ones for sale on eBay.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Fri, 29 August 2008, 14:17:24
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 29 August 2008, 14:22:10
I got the same kind of email a month ago. They know that a chit ton of us Americans are really down with getting one of these, so I expect them to add it to their site as soon as it comes out.

And look on the bright side, Vic, it's not month we'll have to wait, it's only about three weeks ...

And I think Topre keyboards come with extra keys, like a ctrl sized caps lock and caps lock sized control and a red esc.

Expect this keyboard, this pimpin' keyboard, to be in the price range of the HHKB Pro 2.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Fri, 29 August 2008, 14:32:04
Who knows, maybe that Filco Tenkeyless will come back in stock by then too.  Competition!
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Fri, 29 August 2008, 14:36:27
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 29 August 2008, 15:08:32
I have heard of people having trouble with the 101P on modern computers, but I think you'll be fine with whatever because you have  abase knowledge of how and why this stuff works or doesn't. And I type pretty damned fast myself and I have never had a problem with Alps switches that way, or buckling springs or Cherry switches (except for the browns) or Topre or any others. I remember having a ghost problem on one keyboard but I don't remember which one it was and I have long since thrown it in the garbage I'm sure.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Fri, 29 August 2008, 15:30:43
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: megarat on Thu, 04 September 2008, 23:35:54
For anyone who is interested, I located the Realforce 89UB (Japanese layout) on amazon.co.jp for 17.8k yen (~US$180):

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%9D%B1%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC-Realforce89UB-NF01B0/dp/B000OQDSMW/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1220589098&sr=8-35

amazon.co.jp won't ship keyboards to the US, but crescent-shop can get them for you.

-cam
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Fri, 05 September 2008, 16:57:33
how does this compare to the happy hacking keyboard pro 2??
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: zetan on Fri, 05 September 2008, 22:40:24
Quote from: Bluemercury;8453
how does this compare to the happy hacking keyboard pro 2??


Shape and key touch mainly.

The first one's obvious and I like both the shape and the layout of HHK Pro2 better than those of Realforce (though realforce 86 closes the gap).

For the latter, Realforce is said to be a bit lighter and smoother to type on (all-30g  version of realforce is even lighter). Also, realforce keyboards probably would last longer.

I tried both keyboards myself, and I personally prefer Realforce to HHK Pro2, mainly because I like lighter, tactile key touch. But some people like heavier, more solid keys, in which case they would choose to have a HHKB pro2.

It is unquestionable that both HHK Pro2 and Realforce are superb keyboards.
Which one to pick depends on one's taste-- well, for the most part.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Sat, 06 September 2008, 16:31:04
Quote from: zetan;8470
Shape and key touch mainly.

The first one's obvious and I like both the shape and the layout of HHK Pro2 better than those of Realforce (though realforce 86 closes the gap).

For the latter, Realforce is said to be a bit lighter and smoother to type on (all-30g  version of realforce is even lighter). Also, realforce keyboards probably would last longer.

I tried both keyboards myself, and I personally prefer Realforce to HHK Pro2, mainly because I like lighter, tactile key touch. But some people like heavier, more solid keys, in which case they would choose to have a HHKB pro2.

It is unquestionable that both HHK Pro2 and Realforce are superb keyboards.
Which one to pick depends on one's taste-- well, for the most part.


Why would you think the Realforce board would last longer? Don't the use the same switch? (other than one being lighter than the other)
Title: Yes!
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 07 September 2008, 21:44:14
It's here!! (http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 07 September 2008, 21:47:24
My order's being confirmed.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Sun, 07 September 2008, 21:54:52
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Waves77 on Sun, 07 September 2008, 22:05:18
Quote from: xsphat;8570
My order's being confirmed.


Damn dude, you don't waste any time!

I'm really curious how you'll like and how it'll compare to the HHKB (if there's any real difference).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 07 September 2008, 22:16:19
I don't F around, chico (it's a one liner, not a display of racial disaffection).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Waves77 on Sun, 07 September 2008, 22:32:22
Quote from: xsphat;8573
(it's a one liner, not a display of racial disaffection).


No problem, I don't think we need to be overcautious and PC either now that we had our little off topic rant over ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Sun, 07 September 2008, 22:57:15
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 08 September 2008, 00:35:30
Still a good choice. Topre makes a black 101 that's Korea only as well.

And I won the M2 but I found a home for it with a writer friend of mine, so today has shaped up to be a good day for keyboarding.

I cannot wait for that Topre 86U to come ...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 08 September 2008, 00:36:09
And I asked about the red Esc key as well.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Freyth on Mon, 08 September 2008, 03:43:18
Can the black realforce model still be used outside of Korea? Is it an "English" keyboard?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Mon, 08 September 2008, 06:31:54
Black models only for Korea?  Makes no sense.  Most computer users these days don't have the same aesthetic sense as some IBM drone worker from 1981.  A premium quality keyboard that looks cheap and dated, not so great.  Moot point anyway, it's sold out.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 08 September 2008, 09:09:29
Quote from: Ulysses31;8588
Moot point anyway, it's sold out.


That's why I jumped on it as soon as I got the email.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 08 September 2008, 13:47:02
Did anyone else here get one of these?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Mon, 08 September 2008, 15:55:20
Quote from: xsphat;8603
Did anyone else here get one of these?


Visually it doesnt seem to touch the hhkp2 from what ai can see, and being a owner of hhkp2.

Still, whats the difference between this and the Topre Realforce91U NG0100 Japanese USB Keyboard????
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xyzzy on Mon, 08 September 2008, 16:03:25
The 91U features a spacebar the size of a peanut.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Mon, 08 September 2008, 16:09:40
Wow, you´re right, didnt saw it, well too bad the black version isnt coming to the benippon site. I might buy another more expensive keyboard but only at the end of the year.
But im enjoying my non clicky hhkp2. Very nice feeling.......
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Tue, 09 September 2008, 02:30:58
wow that stock sure depleted fast 0_o

Anyone got any news on possible shipment options from Korea? I tried requesting from this site and they are yet to reply:

http://www.buythekorea.com/buy/board.php?board=tnshopmain&command=shop

I sent an item request some time ago and they didnt respond at all =/
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 09 September 2008, 02:36:21
Same here (with Buy The Korea). I kind of doubt they are legit.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Tue, 09 September 2008, 21:38:24
"Hello,
 
Thank you for your interest for beNippon.
 
We expect to get the next stock available at end of October,
unfortunately not before.
It will still be the white/grey color, as according to what we heard
from the maker there will, at least for now, be only the white model
available in Japan. We hope this to change in the future, though.
 
Best regards,
Mathieu - beNippon"

next stock is gonna take awhile to get in for the white ones
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Tue, 09 September 2008, 22:42:37
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Wed, 10 September 2008, 08:35:18
Quote from: victheslik;8633
Well now, Topre Corp. might see how succesful/wanted there new product is, that they will unveil a Realfoce 86uS (S=all 30g keys), and in both colors preferablly black with a red escape *mhmmm*.

-victheslik


Lets see if that site ships to Europe and US...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: victheslik on Wed, 10 September 2008, 21:57:09
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Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Thu, 11 September 2008, 01:54:44
Quote from: Bluemercury;8643
Lets see if that site ships to Europe and US...

and Southeast Asia too ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Spitfire on Fri, 12 September 2008, 04:45:03
Hi, I live in Berkeley, CA and am using Realforce 86UK (black version). I bought them from Leopold when I was in Korea. Seems like i'm too late to tell anything about this, but anyone who's still interested in getting it?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Fri, 12 September 2008, 07:32:01
Quote from: Spitfire;8685
Hi, I live in Berkeley, CA and am using Realforce 86UK (black version). I bought them from Leopold when I was in Korea. Seems like i'm too late to tell anything about this, but anyone who's still interested in getting it?


yep. Iam.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: vils on Fri, 12 September 2008, 07:58:55
Ditto!

/Vils
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 12 September 2008, 08:42:00
Mine just shipped from Japan.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Fri, 12 September 2008, 08:45:32
Quote from: Spitfire;8685
Seems like i'm too late to tell anything about this, but anyone who's still interested in getting it?


yupyup
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Fri, 12 September 2008, 09:56:41
What are you doing? Are you organizing a mass purchase or something?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Spitfire on Fri, 12 September 2008, 19:48:33
OK, there's 3 ways to buy realforce 86 in the states.

1:
http://www.gmarket.co.kr/
http://www.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=133366957&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_order=%B8%AE%BE%F3%C6%F7%BD%BA&search_keyword=리얼포스

they have realforce 86(english layout - both color), and they ship worldwide. But you have to register...

2.
http://www.gomawa.com/

It's a website like benippon, so you can ask them to buy one from leopold and ship to the states. Seems more reliable than the other website someone found before, but you need to know Korean....

3.
I read articles about overseas shipping in leopold: they said once you send them the money for EMS, they can send it. or, maybe you can try this site:
http://www.iomania.co.kr/
they have realforce 86 black, too.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Fri, 12 September 2008, 20:19:38
That's all in Korean?I cant understand anything.....:P
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: vils on Fri, 12 September 2008, 20:35:07
Second link via Google translate: http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmarket.co.kr%2Fchallenge%2Fneo_goods%2Fgoods.asp%3Fgoodscode%3D133366957%26pos_shop_cd%3DSH%26pos_class_cd%3D111111111%26pos_class_kind%3DT%26keyword_order%3D%25B8%25AE%25BE%25F3%25C6%25F7%25BD%25BA%26search_keyword%3D%EB%A6%AC%EC%96%BC%ED%8F%AC%EC%8A%A4&sl=ko&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8 (http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmarket.co.kr%2Fchallenge%2Fneo_goods%2Fgoods.asp%3Fgoodscode%3D133366957%26pos_shop_cd%3DSH%26pos_class_cd%3D111111111%26pos_class_kind%3DT%26keyword_order%3D%25B8%25AE%25BE%25F3%25C6%25F7%25BD%25BA%26search_keyword%3D%EB%A6%AC%EC%96%BC%ED%8F%AC%EC%8A%A4&sl=ko&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8)

/Vils
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Sat, 13 September 2008, 02:07:01
Quote from: Spitfire;8703


3.
I read articles about overseas shipping in leopold: they said once you send them the money for EMS, they can send it.
they have realforce 86 black, too.

Any links to these articles?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sat, 13 September 2008, 07:48:45
Quote from: vils;8705
Second link via Google translate: http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmarket.co.kr%2Fchallenge%2Fneo_goods%2Fgoods.asp%3Fgoodscode%3D133366957%26pos_shop_cd%3DSH%26pos_class_cd%3D111111111%26pos_class_kind%3DT%26keyword_order%3D%25B8%25AE%25BE%25F3%25C6%25F7%25BD%25BA%26search_keyword%3D%EB%A6%AC%EC%96%BC%ED%8F%AC%EC%8A%A4&sl=ko&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8 (http://translate.google.se/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmarket.co.kr%2Fchallenge%2Fneo_goods%2Fgoods.asp%3Fgoodscode%3D133366957%26pos_shop_cd%3DSH%26pos_class_cd%3D111111111%26pos_class_kind%3DT%26keyword_order%3D%25B8%25AE%25BE%25F3%25C6%25F7%25BD%25BA%26search_keyword%3D%EB%A6%AC%EC%96%BC%ED%8F%AC%EC%8A%A4&sl=ko&tl=en&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8)

/Vils


Still hard to understand how to order from them.....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Sat, 13 September 2008, 07:56:04
Quote from: Bluemercury;8709
Still hard to understand how to order from them.....


http://global.gmarket.co.kr

This appears to be their English site.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sat, 13 September 2008, 12:12:20
Quote from: iMav;8710
http://global.gmarket.co.kr

This appears to be their English site.


Strange the 86kb model doesnt appear there....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Spitfire on Sat, 13 September 2008, 15:48:44
Quote from: Skarekrow;8708
Any links to these articles?


http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=bbs/gnuboard.php&bo_table=guest&sselect=wr_subject%7Cwr_content&stext=%C7%D8%BF%DC&soperator=0&page=1&wr_id=1268

well, the link is in korean. he was asking if he can buy realforce86 at global.gmarket.com and the answer was 'not until late july.' then he again asked if he can get it faster, and they told him to just buy one from them and send money for EMS.


 so I found this in global.gmarket.com :
http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=133366957&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_order=realforce&search_keyword=realforce

you have to search realforce in korean to find this....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Spitfire on Sat, 13 September 2008, 15:54:15
And, seems like the color selection column is not translated...


색상 (above quantity) means color. 블랙 means black and 화이트 means white.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 14 September 2008, 00:16:36
Mine, in the proper color, is in [insert big city near to home here]! Soon ...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Sun, 14 September 2008, 22:33:24
Mine came in yesterday.

All I can say is..... wow. I love these switches. This board is basically the HHKB Pro with a slightly less efficient layout (since it uses the normal key layout). The difference in the weighted keys are very suttle and you probably won't notice it over the HHKB Pro.

IMO the topre switches ( whether you get the realforce or the HHKB) are the best switches money can buy. No other switches sounds better, feels better or has a better response than topre switches.... again it is just my opinion. It's really a sad thing that you have to get them shipped to the states to get them.

A big thanks goes out to GeekHack for introducing them (topre switches) to me :P
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 14 September 2008, 22:48:13
Did you get a white one from BeNippon? That's what I am waiting for.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Sun, 14 September 2008, 22:48:55
Quote from: xsphat;8741
Did you get a white one from BeNippon? That's what I am waiting for.


Yup.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 14 September 2008, 23:15:10
I thought I was the only one here who was gonna have one.

Did it come with few extra keys and a key puller? Did it come with a red Esc key?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Mon, 15 September 2008, 00:20:29
Quote from: xsphat;8743
I thought I was the only one here who was gonna have one.

Did it come with few extra keys and a key puller? Did it come with a red Esc key?


I came with the extra control/cap lock key so you can put the control key where i belongs like on the HHKB :P. It has dip switches like the HHKB. And yeah it came with a key cap puller, but not the red escape key.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 15 September 2008, 00:42:23
Thanks, I been dying to know that. I am thinking I'll have mine by midweek.

Do you use Mac by any chance? I'm worried I won't be able to use the contextual menu key on the right side because that key didn't show up on my Filco. Can the function of that key be switched via the dip switches?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Mon, 15 September 2008, 03:18:34
Quote from: xsphat;8745
Thanks, I been dying to know that. I am thinking I'll have mine by midweek.

Do you use Mac by any chance? I'm worried I won't be able to use the contextual menu key on the right side because that key didn't show up on my Filco. Can the function of that key be switched via the dip switches?


Nah. I don't have a mac, and it doesn't appear to be an option in the dip switches. Do macs not have a windows shift+F10 equivalent for the context menu?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Mon, 15 September 2008, 05:32:24
Quote from: Korbin;8740
Mine came in yesterday.

All I can say is..... wow. I love these switches. This board is basically the HHKB Pro with a slightly less efficient layout (since it uses the normal key layout). The difference in the weighted keys are very suttle and you probably won't notice it over the HHKB Pro.

IMO the topre switches ( whether you get the realforce or the HHKB) are the best switches money can buy. No other switches sounds better, feels better or has a better response than topre switches.... again it is just my opinion. It's really a sad thing that you have to get them shipped to the states to get them.

A big thanks goes out to GeekHack for introducing them (topre switches) to me :P


Where did you bought yours?Also are the topre switches used in the HHKP2???
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Mon, 15 September 2008, 05:53:45
Has anyone tried buying from Gmarket Korea? I dont dare test the water by sending the payment first lol
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Mon, 15 September 2008, 06:04:28
Quote from: Skarekrow;8749
Has anyone tried buying from Gmarket Korea? I dont dare test the water by sending the payment first lol


I would but not right now.....but i dont even know how to buy it, that model (topre 86k)didnt appear at global site of gmarket.....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Mon, 15 September 2008, 06:16:30
Quote from: Bluemercury;8751
I would but not right now.....but i dont even know how to buy it, that model (topre 86k)didnt appear at global site of gmarket.....


http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=133366957&pos_shop_cd=RC&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T

This is the thing in english. I know what you mean, its strange that you can find this product when you search the korean site but not when you search the english site, but this thing can still produce a product page in english. BTW like Spitfire mentioned earlier, the untranslated bit with the drop down at the top of the page is the colour;top one with 2 characters means "black" and 3 character one at the bottom is "white"
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Mon, 15 September 2008, 09:49:34
Quote from: Bluemercury;8748
Where did you bought yours?Also are the topre switches used in the HHKP2???

Benippon, like Xsphat. And yes the topre switches are used in the HHKB Pro 2. In terms of the switches, if you have the HHKB you have the RealForce 86u. Basically you trade off a less efficient key layout for the variable weight keys.

Just like the HHKB, the construction is top notch and sounds damn near musical typing on in :P.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 15 September 2008, 11:09:24
Quote from: Korbin;8747
Do macs not have a windows shift+F10 equivalent for the context menu?


Not that I am aware of.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Mon, 15 September 2008, 11:54:12
Well this would cost me the same as the HHKP2.......i wonder if its worth more buying another HHKP2.....but i might buy this one.....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Mon, 15 September 2008, 12:13:32
Quote from: Bluemercury;8761
Well this would cost me the same as the HHKP2.......i wonder if its worth more buying another HHKP2.....but i might buy this one.....


I bought one because I really love the Topre switches in the HHKB Pro but I want a layout like the Model M 84 key (sick of all the modifiers).

And I don't think I would call that layout inefficient. When was the last time you even had to look at the keys to find an arrow key - on a 101 / 104 layout or on the HHKB? After a while you just know where they are. I would say it has a more spread out layout or maybe a standard layout, but I wouldn't call it inefficient - sounds so negative, so Borg.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Mon, 15 September 2008, 14:46:27
Quote from: xsphat;8762
I bought one because I really love the Topre switches in the HHKB Pro but I want a layout like the Model M 84 key (sick of all the modifiers).

And I don't think I would call that layout inefficient. When was the last time you even had to look at the keys to find an arrow key - on a 101 / 104 layout or on the HHKB? After a while you just know where they are. I would say it has a more spread out layout or maybe a standard layout, but I wouldn't call it inefficient - sounds so negative, so Borg.


Ok. More spread out if that suits you better :P.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Mon, 15 September 2008, 15:22:36
While I like the lay out of the model M mini, it becomes obvious when I have to move my right hand to get to the arrow keys, page up/down, home and end....
After using the HHKB it is really nice to hit those keys without having to move my hand. Granted it requires more fingers to do it, but thats the price to pay to keep my hands on the home row....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Mon, 15 September 2008, 15:34:55
I don't know if I am claustrophobic or something, but I like the fullsize layout.  I also work in retail (grocery), so having the 10-key keypad helps quite a bit (for calculations and typing in long numbers like UPCs).  I also used to be a bookeeper (for the same company) in college, so I got quite accustom to using the 10-key from that experience.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Mon, 15 September 2008, 17:06:54
Good points. Either way, what we think of as efficient/inefficient (or spread out) is really just as subjective as the preference of keyboards itself.

A standard board does slows down my productivity as a software developer due to how often the arrow keys are use, whereas I rarely use them when composing an email. Not all development editors auto-generate parenthesis for conditional statements or brackets so many developers get into the habit of typing the brackets first and using the arrow key to move back an type the "meat" of the block.

Obviously, doing this hundreds of times in a day can really slow down a developer over the course of the day if they have to take their hand off the home row regardless of they know where their arrow keys are without looking down.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Tue, 16 September 2008, 04:04:43
I like keyboards of all sizes, and this one with the red esc key looks really nice......im willing to buy it but i dont know when and how yet.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Spitfire on Tue, 16 September 2008, 04:25:35
I like the standard layout better. (but without 10-key) That's why i got this keyboard to replace my HHKB2....  For me as a windows & VisualStudio user, HHKB is not the best.

ps. I got my realforce84 from Gmarket, but at korean version of page. I think you can get it through the english page, too....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Tue, 16 September 2008, 04:54:33
Quote from: Spitfire;8783
I like the standard layout better. (but without 10-key) That's why i got this keyboard to replace my HHKB2....  For me as a windows & VisualStudio user, HHKB is not the best.

ps. I got my realforce84 from Gmarket, but at korean version of page. I think you can get it through the english page, too....


Did you bought the black version? Can you give me the link?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Tue, 16 September 2008, 05:47:31
Quote from: Spitfire;8783
I like the standard layout better. (but without 10-key) That's why i got this keyboard to replace my HHKB2....  For me as a windows & VisualStudio user, HHKB is not the best.

ps. I got my realforce84 from Gmarket, but at korean version of page. I think you can get it through the english page, too....



did you buy it from a user called  "chips8812"? Im not sure if i should buy from him since this product is strangely not shown when you search for it on the english version of the site but it is on the korean one. BTW How did you order the thing in korean?

Bluemercury: Would this be the page you are looking for?

http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=133366957&pos_shop_cd=RC&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: zillidot on Tue, 16 September 2008, 06:07:39
Does the Korean Realforce 86 have Korean characters printed on the keys?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Spitfire on Tue, 16 September 2008, 06:23:14
Yes, I have the black version. (The only reason to buy korean version is because black color is only avaliable in korea.) I think I bought it from the same seller,(not sure, since I bought that a few months ago) but at korean version of website. The link Skarekrow gave is the same page in english website.

Skarekrow: I can read Korean, and I was in korea for a month by then.

zillidot: They have korean characters on the keys, but I got english keycaps as well. I think english keycaps are for limited edition only, so if you want them, you would have to buy something like this:
http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1215396631
(sorry couldn't find any english site which has this...)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Tue, 16 September 2008, 10:05:43
I was hoping they would have the version with no key symbols at all......like the HHKP2.....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Sat, 20 September 2008, 03:37:25
http://www.j-goods.net/

For those who are trying to get a white one with english keycaps from Japan, this is another buying service like Crescentshop. They charge pretty reasonably I think(but paypal only); 260 USD for the order commission and shipping from Japan to Singapore, in my case. By contrast the same thing from Benippon is 247 USD without shipping

For shipping to the states you can check their site shipping table or send an item request(youll send the request if youre buying anyway). If you want the black one like me  you gotta find some way to get it from Korea =(
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 20 September 2008, 03:45:25
What I want is a keyboard roof and a red Esc key for my 86. Does anyone know a Japanese site that sells them? BeNippon says they can't get them, but if I send this sort of company a link they can buy it for me.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Sat, 20 September 2008, 03:50:42
Quote from: xsphat;8937
What I want is a keyboard roof and a red Esc key for my 86. Does anyone know a Japanese site that sells them? BeNippon says they can't get them, but if I send this sort of company a link they can buy it for me.


Yeah I think these guys can pick one up for you, you dont even have to provide a link but i suppose it would help them if you did.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 20 September 2008, 03:52:43
If I find a place that get them I'll let you guys know; I bet those red Esc keys would look pretty good on an HHKB Pro ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Seraphim on Sat, 20 September 2008, 04:30:41
Quote from: xsphat;8937
What I want is a keyboard roof and a red Esc key for my 86. Does anyone know a Japanese site that sells them? BeNippon says they can't get them, but if I send this sort of company a link they can buy it for me.


http://item.rakuten.co.jp/filco/10000311/

Keyboard Roof by Bird Electron (Product Code: RF-DV3). I got one myself when I ordered my Realforce86U through Crescent Trading.

It's specially made for the realforce so it fits perfectly :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 20 September 2008, 04:36:46
Thanks. One thing down, one to go.

What country are you in? And how do you like that Realforce 86U? I love mine, so happy with it ...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Seraphim on Sat, 20 September 2008, 05:14:35
Australia and it's amazing :)

I'm so glad I waited; I very nearly caved and ordered the realforce101 but pulled out when the tone in this thread sort of shifted a few weeks ago and it sounded like its release in Japan was imminent and then a few days later it was!

This is my first experience with the Topre switch and it's hard to describe what a joy it is to type on. VERY impressed with the build quality as well!
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Sat, 20 September 2008, 08:24:33
I find it interesting that you guys like the switches so much.  I love my HHKB Pro very much...but, to me, the key feel is not the primary selling point, it's the key layout.

Don't get me wrong...I do like the feel.  But if given the option of other switches with the same layout, I'd likely choose a Cherry switch or Buckling Springs.  With this layout, I'd choose a Filco mini or a Model M mini over the Realforce.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 20 September 2008, 10:19:30
I banish you.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bigpook on Sat, 20 September 2008, 10:47:14
I would agree with iMav. Its the key layout and small form factor of the HHKB that keeps it on my desk. Behind that is the feel of the key switch. Ideally, I would have a HHKB with BS keys.
It would be nirvana for me, but not likely to ever happen.
I much prefer my BS keyboards when it comes to feel, I just wish they were not so big.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 20 September 2008, 13:04:35
Since the first time I typed on the HHKB Pro 2, I've loved the feel of the Topre capacitive switch. Back then, I didn't know what Topre was, BTW.

I like that it's not loud and there is no click but it is, as many people around here have said, very satisfying to type on. It all boils down to preference.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sun, 21 September 2008, 00:46:53
Quote from: Skarekrow;8936
http://www.j-goods.net/

For those who are trying to get a white one with english keycaps from Japan, this is another buying service like Crescentshop. They charge pretty reasonably I think(but paypal only); 260 USD for the order commission and shipping from Japan to Singapore, in my case. By contrast the same thing from Benippon is 247 USD without shipping

For shipping to the states you can check their site shipping table or send an item request(youll send the request if youre buying anyway). If you want the black one like me  you gotta find some way to get it from Korea =(

I wanted to order some accessories for my Topre 86 but BeNippon said they couldn't get them. I sent an inquiry to the site you linked to and they responded in a day. They said the red Esc key is not sold, it is a gift for buying a Topre keyboard (well then why the F don't I have one?!?!?!?!).

But they can get a keyboard roof and the real Topre key locks I wanted. So I jsut paid them for those wears. The price? It was about $25 above the price on the sites, so with international shipping that isn't too bad.

_________________

I jsut looked over the invoice and this comapny took a $13 commission on on this sale, the rest was a PayPal fee and shipping. They go through the entire list of costs really well — they send a PDF invoice with pictures of the items ordered — and their prices match the websites I gave them. What do you guys think; is that fair?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sun, 21 September 2008, 11:40:57
So there still isnt an easy way to buy the black version of this i assume?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Fri, 26 September 2008, 04:58:44
I took the plunge and ordered a black korean one through gmarket. Let's see how that works out...
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: vils on Sat, 27 September 2008, 15:29:09
Quote from: Vinz;9098
I took the plunge and ordered a black korean one through gmarket. Let's see how that works out...


Let us know how it went.

/Vils
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sun, 28 September 2008, 15:46:20
Quote from: Vinz;9098
I took the plunge and ordered a black korean one through gmarket. Let's see how that works out...


Lets see how it goes then....:)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Sun, 05 October 2008, 00:44:25
Has the Realforce arrived yet?=S
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sun, 05 October 2008, 07:57:21
Yes, how that did go?Im considering buying another HHKP2 or this one. I really like the switches and specially the HHK layout....so i dont know yet.......i was hoping for a HHKP3 :P
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Tue, 07 October 2008, 09:04:04
Just registered in Gmarket. Trying to get an answer for this......
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Tue, 07 October 2008, 11:45:40
Just to be clear, there's no "true" English version of this available in black at the moment, right?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Tue, 07 October 2008, 12:13:38
I'm still waiting for mine. It left Korea on a plane last friday according to the tracking info, so I'm hoping it will be delivered any day now. Ordering from Gmarket is pretty scary BTW, if you want to use a credit card you have to fax a copy of the front of your card, which I didn't want to do. So I ended up wiring the money from Paypal, but that's implemented as a transfer to a Gmarket account, after which Gmarket converts your dollars to Korean Won, after which the order is paid. So now I have some Won left in my Gmarket account... ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Tue, 07 October 2008, 14:06:19
You have someone in your account?  Who, exactly? ^_~.  Good luck with the delivery.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Tue, 07 October 2008, 15:45:15
Quote from: Vinz;9375
I'm still waiting for mine. It left Korea on a plane last friday according to the tracking info, so I'm hoping it will be delivered any day now. Ordering from Gmarket is pretty scary BTW, if you want to use a credit card you have to fax a copy of the front of your card, which I didn't want to do. So I ended up wiring the money from Paypal, but that's implemented as a transfer to a Gmarket account, after which Gmarket converts your dollars to Korean Won, after which the order is paid. So now I have some Won left in my Gmarket account... ;)


That sounds complicated. :S
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Tue, 07 October 2008, 15:58:32
Paypal is like that? You send money to an account. Sometimes the receiver requests the money but that seems to be the exception.

Some Won left = probably a few cent. If the conversion rate was adjusted between invoice and payment this is easily possible. It's a good sign they actually credited that.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 07 October 2008, 22:34:49
So does BeNippon. When I ordered my keyboard I was flat broke. I paid four days later and it dropped $10.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Wed, 08 October 2008, 16:34:06
Quote from: xsphat;9390
So does BeNippon. When I ordered my keyboard I was flat broke. I paid four days later and it dropped $10.


Im going to buy another hhkp2 and the price seems 30€ more expensive.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Wed, 08 October 2008, 16:36:05
Markets go both ways like Lindsey Lohan. And just like with her, you have to be lucky and know how to play them.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Wed, 08 October 2008, 16:47:22
You don't have to be lucky.  You just need alcohol and heroin.  Oh, you meant the markets.  In that case, my statement still applies.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Wed, 08 October 2008, 20:10:18
Quote from: lowpoly;9384
Paypal is like that? You send money to an account. Sometimes the receiver requests the money but that seems to be the exception.

Well no, most sites lead you to a paypal link where you only have to login and confirm the transaction, after which you go back to the merchant's site. Gmarket has a help page with screenshots that shows you how to go to paypal yourself and set up your own transfer of funds to someone else. As it's not handled as an order there is no guarantee you're actually supposed to get something for your money, you're just giving it away at that point.

The slight overcharge is indeed to compensate for a fluctuating exchange rate, Gmarket itself suggests a slightly higher (1%?) amount than you actually need. As far as I can tell it's a few dollars. Haven't actually tried if I can get it back, but I'm not really concerned about that. ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Thu, 09 October 2008, 00:18:07
Quote from: itlnstln;9400
You just need alcohol and heroin.


Check.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Mon, 13 October 2008, 06:58:48
It arrived today! Most of the delay actually was the customs office here in The Netherlands, who kept the package for over a week. The Korean guy shipped it within a few days. Luckily the customs guys didn't decide to make me pay import taxes, so I have no idea why they kept it this long.

I've just started typing on it 1 minute ago, so I have no idea how it'll work out yet. But it already feels like I'm typing more accurately and a bit faster, as if all the keys are in exactly the right spot. It feels a lot smaller than the logitech crapkeyboard I was using before this at the office, even though the key distance measures out to be the same. I think it's the different key angles per key row, you can easily hit all the keys without moving your hands a lot.

Oh, and just to be clear: this is the Korean version, which has black print on black keys and includes the red Escape key (wasn't installed by default, but xsphat is right, the included key puller (2 actually, 1 normal, 1 U-shaped) is very easy to use), but no key roof (which I wouldn't use anyway).
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: bhtooefr on Mon, 13 October 2008, 10:28:31
Quote from: itlnstln;9400
You don't have to be lucky.  You just need alcohol and heroin.  Oh, you meant the markets.  In that case, my statement still applies.


You just need larger quantities of alcohol and heroin to play the markets. And, instead of using the alcohol on yourself (beer goggles) and the heroin on Lohan, you use both on CEOs.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Mon, 13 October 2008, 16:11:23
Quote
It arrived today!

Congrats on bringing up the courage to play the guinea pig and having everything work out perfectly.

You are also right about the Paypal thing, don't know why I didn't think of that. :confused:
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lopan on Mon, 13 October 2008, 23:16:19
When you say it's the korean version are you saying that it has korean characters on the keycaps or is it in english?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Tue, 14 October 2008, 18:04:12
Quote from: lopan;9484
When you say it's the korean version are you saying that it has korean characters on the keycaps or is it in english?

It has both QWERTY and Korean characters printed on the keycaps, and works 100% as a normal US QWERTY keyboard. It certainly makes for a more exotic keyboard! :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Tue, 14 October 2008, 18:13:31
Some people asked me what I did exactly. I followed the advice and links Spitfire and others have posted on page 10 of this thread, the most relevant part being:
Quote from: Spitfire;8720

so I found this in global.gmarket.com :
http://global.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_goods/goods.asp?goodscode=133366957&pos_shop_cd=SH&pos_class_cd=111111111&pos_class_kind=T&keyword_order=realforce&search_keyword=realforce

you have to search realforce in korean to find this....

색상 (above quantity) means color. 블랙 means black and 화이트 means white.

It seems GMarket has a mechanism where you can haggle online, but since I was intimidated enough by all the Korean as-is I just paid the listed price. It seems the Won is fluctuating against the dollar a bit, I seem to remember I paid about $250 for the keyboard, but it's listed as $230 now. My total price, including shipping (with online tracking) to The Netherlands ended up as $278,05. Quite a lot of money for such a small keyboard, but hey... ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lopan on Tue, 14 October 2008, 20:27:54
Shipping took 2 weeks? Which method did you choose?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: fkeidjn on Tue, 14 October 2008, 22:05:37
Quote from: Vinz;9506
Some people asked me what I did exactly. I followed the advice and links Spitfire and others have posted on page 10 of this thread, the most relevant part being:

It seems GMarket has a mechanism where you can haggle online, but since I was intimidated enough by all the Korean as-is I just paid the listed price. It seems the Won is fluctuating against the dollar a bit, I seem to remember I paid about $250 for the keyboard, but it's listed as $230 now. My total price, including shipping (with online tracking) to The Netherlands ended up as $278,05. Quite a lot of money for such a small keyboard, but hey... ;)


Now is it me, or did the price of the keyboard just rose from 280000 won to 310000 won?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lopan on Tue, 14 October 2008, 22:15:43
Yes, it's more expensive now, but remember you can bargain. I offered 260000won and the offer was accepted. I ended up paying $212 shipped.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lopan on Tue, 14 October 2008, 22:17:20
Quote from: Vinz;9505
It has both QWERTY and Korean characters printed on the keycaps, and works 100% as a normal US QWERTY keyboard. It certainly makes for a more exotic keyboard! :)


That's odd, because the pictures on the site show just english. :P
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Wed, 15 October 2008, 05:14:28
Quote from: lopan;9509
Shipping took 2 weeks? Which method did you choose?

Dunno what I chose. It was shipped by air within a few days, but the local customs office thought it was necessary to hold on to it for over a week before finally delivering it to me.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Wed, 15 October 2008, 05:15:14
Quote from: lopan;9513
That's odd, because the pictures on the site show just english. :P

Yup, it's slightly different (only the keycap prints though). I'll post a picture soonish.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Wed, 15 October 2008, 17:40:48
About the black-on-black key-caps; I am assuming that the lettering isn't printed on like it is with white keys?  From pictures I have seen, KBtalking and these black Topre models look as though the lettering is formed by partial smoothing of the key-cap (as opposed to the usual roughened surface), meaning that the lettering and the key-cap are one single piece of plastic.  This set-up would probably be more resistant to wear.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Thu, 16 October 2008, 03:42:42
I suspect they use the same laser process, melting/burning the surface.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: megarat on Thu, 16 October 2008, 11:21:23
Quote from: Ulysses31;9556
About the black-on-black key-caps; I am assuming that the lettering isn't printed on like it is with white keys?  From pictures I have seen, KBtalking and these black Topre models look as though the lettering is formed by partial smoothing of the key-cap (as opposed to the usual roughened surface), meaning that the lettering and the key-cap are one single piece of plastic.  This set-up would probably be more resistant to wear.


FWIW, this doesn't appear to be the case with the HHKBP2.  The black-on-black print appears to be printed.  (Not sure if the HHKBP2 counts as a "Topre model", but anyway ...)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Tue, 21 October 2008, 04:43:41
I can't feel the lettering with my fingers, if that answers your question. The letters seem to be in the keys, not on top of them. I keep meaning to bring a camera to the office so I can post a picture, but I keep forgetting it.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Tue, 21 October 2008, 07:48:48
Pictures of this keyboard would be appreciated.  They are about as close as i'll get to this thing :P
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Skarekrow on Wed, 22 October 2008, 06:36:36
Hey, could any of those who ordered a Realforce 86 from Gmarket tell me what they put in the shipping information boxes that said "sender's name" and "recipient's name" and "sender's email'?. I assume that by "sender", they mean the sender of the payment right? did you just put your own name in both boxes? or is one of them meant for someone else?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: fkeidjn on Fri, 24 October 2008, 16:20:10
I have a question:

Is NOW a good time to be buying the Realforce 86 from GMarket?  According to Yahoo finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=KRW&amt=1&t=5d), the value of the dollar is going strong against the Korean won (a dollar to 1424.8 won).  So would now be the good time, or should I wait until the a dollar is >1500 won?

Also, I noticed in the search result just now that there are two links (http://www.gmarket.co.kr/challenge/neo_search/search_total.asp?selecturl=total&SearchClassFormWord=goodsSearch&keyword=realforce) to the Realforce 86, one of them apparently marked "New."  Does anybody know the difference?  They're from the same seller chips8812
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: megarat on Fri, 24 October 2008, 23:47:02
Count me in as one who is planning to get one of these things, hoping to place my order in early November.

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find it:  does the Realforce 86 have a built-in USB hub (like the HHKBpro2)?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: fkeidjn on Sat, 25 October 2008, 02:13:21
Quote from: megarat;9861
Count me in as one who is planning to get one of these things, hoping to place my order in early November.

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find it:  does the Realforce 86 have a built-in USB hub (like the HHKBpro2)?

From the description pictures of the one on GMarket, it's safe to say that it doesn't have the built-in USB.

As for prices, I hope I can fetch that keyboard for an even lower price soon, considering current exchange rates.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Sat, 25 October 2008, 17:34:52
Quote from: megarat;9861
Count me in as one who is planning to get one of these things, hoping to place my order in early November.

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I wasn't able to find it:  does the Realforce 86 have a built-in USB hub (like the HHKBpro2)?


It doesn't.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sat, 25 October 2008, 20:54:51
Quote from: Korbin;9869
It doesn't.


But it still uses usb plug connection right?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sat, 25 October 2008, 20:55:48
I will probably buy one in december......i already bought another HHKP2....
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: lowpoly on Sun, 26 October 2008, 15:42:23
Quote from: Bluemercury;9872
But it still uses usb plug connection right?
Not at the keyboard.

Quote
i already bought another HHKP2....
You really have to update your signature.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Sun, 26 October 2008, 17:01:02
Quote from: lowpoly;9893
Not at the keyboard.


You really have to update your signature.


you're right, must do that.

:P
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Tue, 28 October 2008, 09:26:21
http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320
benippon has it again, more expensive than ever :( i may try some other japanese shipping agency, or probably gmarket, but I didn't understood if the guys which bought from there received their keyboards, anyone? which other agency would you recommend, aside from crescent and benippon?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: fkeidjn on Tue, 28 October 2008, 09:59:37
Quote from: sashomasho;9980
http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320
benippon has it again, more expensive than ever :( i may try some other japanese shipping agency, or probably gmarket, but I didn't understood if the guys which bought from there received their keyboards, anyone? which other agency would you recommend, aside from crescent and benippon?

$300 is a ridiculous price, especially when there are other places where you can definitely save a lot of money on, and considering the fact that the Japanese yen has gained a slight edge recently.

Speaking of GMarket, I tried bargaining with the dealer, once at 260000 won, the second time 275000 won.  Both deals were rejected :p.

Now if I'm really desperate for something new, maybe I should go for the Realforce 91 (http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%9D%B1%E3%83%97%E3%83%AC-NE0100-REALFORCE91/dp/B000EQHU5S/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225205374&sr=8-7), with the tiny spacebar and the upside-down L-shaped enter key.

I'd recommend trying Japanese Auction Agency (http://www.japan-auction-agency.com/).  I bought Amazon Japan items through them before, but it wasn't keyboards.  They're a lot easier to deal with than GMarket, if you ask me.

Now that my deals were rejected, I'm probably going to give up on GMarket and wait for the yen to decrease in value, if that happens anytime soon.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Korbin on Tue, 28 October 2008, 10:45:33
Quote from: sashomasho;9980
http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=18320
benippon has it again, more expensive than ever :( i may try some other japanese shipping agency, or probably gmarket, but I didn't understood if the guys which bought from there received their keyboards, anyone? which other agency would you recommend, aside from crescent and benippon?


Holy smokes! It's gone up 70 bucks.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 28 October 2008, 11:47:18
Quote from: Korbin;9985
Holy smokes! It's gone up 70 bucks.


:o somebody needs to fix the economy, srsly
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: megarat on Tue, 28 October 2008, 14:09:54
Quote from: D-EJ915;9989
:o somebody needs to fix the economy, srsly


I strongly suspect that this has at least as much to do with the fact that their last offering sold out in less than a week.  Curse that stupid law of supply and demand!
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 28 October 2008, 16:48:20
Quote from: megarat;9991
I strongly suspect that this has at least as much to do with the fact that their last offering sold out in less than a week.  Curse that stupid law of supply and demand!
ah hadn't crossed my mind (I was talking earlier with some people about the exchange rates) but yes that could be very much an issue, but such a large increase would more likely drive customers away I'd imagine
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: fkeidjn on Tue, 28 October 2008, 22:23:02
An update on my GMarket status:

My bargaining offer of 290000 won was rejected as well.  They only accepted it at 300000 won.  Maybe I should post my buying experience of and how to navigate through GMarket without running into walls?

Shouldn't a slouching economy cause prices to fall?  I guess not when it comes to keyboards, just the opposite, lol
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: D-EJ915 on Tue, 28 October 2008, 22:50:43
depends on what economy, I think it has to do more with fluxuations in currency values than anything, anyway far more advanced stuff than I know how to explain
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: megarat on Wed, 29 October 2008, 09:17:26
Quote from: fkeidjn;10009
Maybe I should post my buying experience of and how to navigate through GMarket without running into walls?


I, for one, would certainly appreciate that.  Thanks for the offer.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: megarat on Wed, 29 October 2008, 09:28:10
Quote from: D-EJ915;10004
but such a large increase would more likely drive customers away I'd imagine


Perhaps, but then they just lower the price until it starts selling.  Keyboards have a long shelf life.  :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: sashomasho on Thu, 30 October 2008, 03:43:59
Quote from: megarat;10017
Perhaps, but then they just lower the price until it starts selling.  Keyboards have a long shelf life.  :)


they already lowered it by 50 bucks to 282.47, still quite steep but already considerable :)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Thu, 30 October 2008, 15:16:27
Quote from: Skarekrow;9814
Hey, could any of those who ordered a Realforce 86 from Gmarket tell me what they put in the shipping information boxes that said "sender's name" and "recipient's name" and "sender's email'?. I assume that by "sender", they mean the sender of the payment right? did you just put your own name in both boxes? or is one of them meant for someone else?


I just put in my own name. No idea what it's used for, and I couldn't find my own name multiple times on any invoices or shipping briefs. Doesn't really matter I guess. ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Thu, 30 October 2008, 15:47:50
Quote from: Ulysses31;9766
Pictures of this keyboard would be appreciated.  They are about as close as i'll get to this thing :P


Here you go!

Realforce alone: http://vinz.nl/images/realforce86_1024.jpg
Realforce + Kinesis and other crap: http://vinz.nl/images/realforce86_kinesis_1024.jpg
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Thu, 30 October 2008, 17:16:04
Ooh, it's very stylish.  Such a shame that our currency is weakening so much now, i'd go for one of these if it were better value.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Bluemercury on Mon, 03 November 2008, 05:50:02
So the price went higher, is gmarket still the place to get the black one?
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: fkeidjn on Mon, 03 November 2008, 09:59:25
Quote from: Bluemercury;10147
So the price went higher, is gmarket still the place to get the black one?


I'm not sure now, because the won went from a dollar for 1455 won down to a dollar for 1262.4 won, as can be shown by this flowchart (http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=USD&to=KRW&submit=Convert), in other words, less won per dollar/euro
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Ulysses31 on Mon, 03 November 2008, 10:00:14
For ultimate compactness, you'd have to go for a Filco Tenkeyless; it doesn't have that "extra inch" on the top.  I'm not counting the HHKB because it has a non-standard configuration.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Chloe on Mon, 03 November 2008, 10:31:04
The Filco also have the Vista style Windows key.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: Vinz on Mon, 03 November 2008, 20:33:42
Quote from: webwit;10148
I like the red escape key cap. Although it should come with an extra black one in case you don't like it.

It comes with a black one fitted by default, but I pulled it for the included red one. Also, it has a replacement for the caps lock key labeled "Ctrl", and a replacement for the control key labeled "Caps Lock", since you can switch both around using the dip switches. I now have two Ctrl keycaps fitted, as I've remapped the Caps Lock to Ctrl in my OSes.

Quote from: webwit;10148
That Windows key is real fugly. I guess the new Windows Logo style does exactly what it was designed for: stand out. I don't like my keyboard to be a MS marketing/advertising apparatus.

Yes, it is. There's one advantage though: you can easily recognise the key by feel and avoid accidentally pressing it. The keyboard includes some thingies to slip under a key to disable depressing it entirely, but I use my windows key every now and then, so I've left it enabled.

Quote from: webwit;10148
The curves are too curvy, I like my lines more staright. There's over an inch of unused space at the top (what's in there??) which also sports a fugly silver logo. Love the charcoal HHKB style keycaps. Overall a weird mix. It's neither an industrial "I don't give a f*ck how ugly I am" type of keyboard, nor sophisticated design. I don't like that.

All that's personal preference. I really don't mind the inch on top for example. My desk is more than roomy enough, I only care about how wide the keyboard is, and it doesn't have any useless space there luckily. Also, the photo's were taken from directly above, from the position where you normally are the top inch is less noticeable, although certainly still there ofcourse.

Quote from: webwit;10148
More important though, I'd love to try the thing to see how the different weighted Topre keys turn out, an interesting concept. Despite the top it does have a nice form factor.

If you don't know they're there you don't consciously feel it. However, I normally move my hands a lot to avoid pressing several small keys with my weak pinkies, and on this keyboard I find I'm using them a lot more, so it certainly seems to work. It feels as if you're using exactly the same amount of force for every key, while on normal keyboards my less powerful fingers always have more trouble depressing keys.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: iMav on Tue, 04 November 2008, 06:24:18
The HHKB has a habit of spoiling people and ruining all other keyboards for them.  ;)

Once you spend significant time on a HHKB, no other layout will do.  xsphat is the one anomaly.  

Webwit, not sure if I have formally welcomed you yet.  Welcome to geekhack!  As a HHKB snob myself, itt's always great to see other HHKB owners here.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Tue, 04 November 2008, 11:38:47
Quote from: iMav;10228
xsphat is the one anomaly.


Don't give me so much credit; I'm sure there are others. The Topre switch is great, and I now have it in my preferred layout. We all win, if we put in the time and money.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 15 November 2008, 13:48:33
Quote from: webwit;11161
Glad you found what you're looking for.


Congrats! and thank you. You are the first one to say that without inserting a sideways stab at me.
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: itlnstln on Sat, 15 November 2008, 14:57:38
Quote from: xsphat;11195
Congrats! and thank you. You are the first one to say that without inserting a sideways stab at me.


He doesn't know you well enough yet. ;)
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: wellington1869 on Sat, 15 November 2008, 15:38:51
Quote from: xsphat;11195
Congrats! and thank you. You are the first one to say that without inserting a sideways stab at me.


We're just jealous XS. You're happy with your woman and with your keyboard.
Gah.  :D
Title: Realforce 86 (space saver model)
Post by: xsphat on Sat, 15 November 2008, 17:08:34
Thanks again. Think of it this way — a few short months ago I was still buying about 3-4 keyboards a month testing out every one I could. Try doing that and sticking with only one. Now I haven't bought anything since this Topre, and the others I have, I've familiar with, so it's easier to use just one.