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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Jaydoublem on Thu, 05 June 2008, 19:42:07
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http://www.datadesktech.com/desktop_mac101e.html
I read on some website that Datadesk was the contractor that built the Apple Extended Keyboards. This is supposed to be the same base as the AEK? I don't believe this, does anyone have more information.
On a side note, I just ebayed an AEKII that is supposed to be NIB...ill find out if this is true.
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I believe it. They are referenced in this episode of TheTalkShow (http://www.thetalkshow.net/media/the-talk-show-episode-20.mp3)...but not by name.
Seems to be exactly what they were talking about...right now to them not looking all that hot. :)
I expect to see at least a few people here picking these up.
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in the technical specifications it says goldplated switches. To continue the discussion there was about the Matias: How can it be the same if there are no more Alps switches.
If this is the real deal then ill definitely pick one up. I don't really care about looks. There are similarities though, it is still ADB.
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Two things on this matter:
1) I called CVT the other week and asked if they still use Alps switches, as I have heard they are no longer made. The guy said they still were available, but in the same breath said they have a big stock of the Avant Prime, the next ones will be black and he had no idea about when the black ones would be manufactured. So maybe they are available, maybe not.
2) Call DataDesk, the message you'll get says they are stuck in a move that's way behind schedule and they'll pass a message on and someone might call you back.
I'm really looking for the best brand new Alps keyboard on the market, so that's why I've call both companies recently. I gave up on DataDesk, though I really like their 101 because if I can't get a hold of them, they aren't a company in good standings so how can I trust their product? And partly because ADB is f'ing archaic -- why even try selling brand new 'boards with ADB in 2008?
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Selling ADB in 2008 is archaic.
However, the customer base for the Board is more then likely Apple Extended Users that are looking for a replacement. These either already own an iMate, or they are still sitting on an ADB Mac.
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True, but still. If they were that worried about their market, they would have a hub with ADB and USB ports.
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It has Mac Plus/512k/128k, and 2 ADB Connectors, so it is already loaded with connectors. Hopefully somebody will come up to compare this to a good old AEK.
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True, but still. If they were that worried about their market, they would have a hub with ADB and USB ports.
According to this review (http://www.summitlake.com/COMPUTERS_NET/Datadesk_101E.html), an USB version of the MAC-101E keyboard was scheduled for the month of August... 2001.
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According to this review (http://www.summitlake.com/COMPUTERS_NET/Datadesk_101E.html), the 101e will soon be available with USB (in versions for "PC" and for Mac) for the deliriously low price of $49.95. ;)
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How about a 101e spacesaver? =-D
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According to this review (http://www.summitlake.com/COMPUTERS_NET/Datadesk_101E.html), the 101e will soon be available with USB (in versions for "PC" and for Mac) for the deliriously low price of $49.95. ;)
The copyright on this one is 2002. I think DataDesk lied to them.
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Ok. Here's the deal.
Just got off the phone with "Robert" from DataDesk. He's been with the company since "the beginning", so he has some good knowledge of where they are as a company now and where they are going.
The ADB keyboard linked above (the Mac-101e) hasn't been built since 1995. They had a few dozen in stock over the past decade and would sell a handful of them per year. Just recently, they sold a dozen (which he attributes to an online review that happened not too long ago). He believes they have a few left...if they do, he can sell them for $89.95 + shipping.
They have been contemplating for a while whether to start making them again (either in the original form, or updated to USB). He said it would be relatively easy to start making them again as USB...it would take changing the electronics...but the real expense is in the enclosure. Which leads to another sticking point...
They feel that if they were to be marketable, they'd have to change to a more modern-looking enclosure and, obviously, add some keys as well. This would be even more pricey. They understand that it is hard to differentiate themselves in the "standard keyboard" market by qualilty alone (certainly WE understand, but the masses don't).
So, basically, they are on the fence.
I am wondering what it is we can do as a quality-keyboard-loving community to encourage companies like this to make modern-day, quality keyboards. I definitely encourage you all to contact them and let them know you'd be interested in new offerings if/when they become available. Perhaps that would help nudge them a bit.
I know that I'd buy a few....if only to thank them for taking the risk.
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With a Mac on the way (still just talking about it) and one already in the house, I'd be in for two of these if they are that good.
And as far as enclosure goes, I dinged the Matias for it's cheap looking and feeling plastic, but that is not why I unplugged it in favor of the SMK. They could go cheap on the enslosure as far as I am concerned, as long as the board was durable and tactile.
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Funny. Looks like this guy (http://8stars.org/a/2008/01/16/clicking-it-old-school/) had the exact same conversation as I did. :)
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isn't it weird to be picky about keyboards when you can't touch type?
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Not at all.
My mom can't touch type, and does about 25 WPM.
There's a 1391401 on her desk.
The ability to touch type has almost nothing to do with the keyswitch behavior and ergonomics. Even if you can't touch type, you'll still get most of the benefit (I say most, because for me, top speed is limited by those factors, whereas finding the keys is the limit for most non-touch typists.)
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I went ahead and ordered a Mac-101e from DataDesk. The online phone conversation was odd to say the least.
[ iMav / DataDesk ]
"Hi, can I help you?"
"yes, I called last week to check on availability of the Mac-101e"
"ok, who did you talk to?"
"Robert"
"no, you didn't talk to Robert"
"excuse me?"
"there is no way you spoke to Robert."
"listen. I spoke with someone who identified themselves at 'Robert'. I don't know him from Adam. Does it really matter? Can I order a keyboard please?"
"ok. fine. What did Robert tell you?"
"he said he would check the stock and get back to me on monday...which he did not"
"I think we have them in stock...in fact I see one laying out."
"can I initiate an order then?"
"hmmm. yeah, I suppose so."
I don't know what they are smoking at DataDesk. ;)
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I went ahead and ordered a Mac-101e from DataDesk. The online phone conversation was odd to say the least.
[ iMav / DataDesk ]
"Hi, can I help you?"
"yes, I called last week to check on availability of the Mac-101e"
"ok, who did you talk to?"
"Robert"
"no, you didn't talk to Robert"
"excuse me?"
"there is no way you spoke to Robert."
"listen. I spoke with someone who identified themselves at 'Robert'. I don't know him from Adam. Does it really matter? Can I order a keyboard please?"
"ok. fine. What did Robert tell you?"
"he said he would check the stock and get back to me on monday...which he did not"
"I think we have them in stock...in fact I see one laying out."
"can I initiate an order then?"
"hmmm. yeah, I suppose so."
I don't know what they are smoking at DataDesk. ;)
:)) That was funny, really... So you ordered one?
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:)) That was funny, really... So you ordered one?
Yeah. I know going in that this board won't become my daily driver (since it has a numpad), but I am curious to find out what all the hype is/was about with these boards.
Plus, it's the first alps-equipped keyboard I've been able to purchase new that has a decent key layout (no crazy reverse L enter/return key).
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Plus, it's the first alps-equipped keyboard I've been able to purchase new that has a decent key layout (no crazy reverse L enter/return key).
that's the reason why i'm interested in this board too, but I don't have an adb converter and as it seems it's difficult to get one of these through their site (i live in europe,. so i guess i'll have difficulties to convince them to ship this keyboard to here). I guess my options are to wait for the new one, if they decide to make it...
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that's the reason why i'm interested in this board too, but I don't have an adb converter and as it seems it's difficult to get one of these through their site (i live in europe,. so i guess i'll have difficulties to convince them to ship this keyboard to here). I guess my options are to wait for the new one, if they decide to make it...
I'd hit up ebay for an iMate. (I ordered mine from amazon)
I wouldn't hold my breath regarding the new model...I don't think they are going to actually do it.
BTW, for those folks who don't live in the US...PM me if you are interested in boards that are only available here. I'd be more than happy to purchase for you and then ship overseas. (assuming you paypal me the money, that is) :)
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BTW, for those folks who don't live in the US...PM me if you are interested in boards that are only available here. I'd be more than happy to purchase for you and then ship overseas. (assuming you paypal me the money, that is) :)
Probably in the near future I'll embrace this offer, but I want to find something that is really worthy, something with alps or something mighty :) There are some online shops which only ship with UPS, thus making the price of the keyboard raise with $200. For the price of two - I'll take the plain and will buy it by myself :)
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As of today, DataDesk has not charged my card nor sent me any sort of email confirmation.
Which is just fine with me. I just picked up a NIB Mac-101e off of eBay for $15. ;)
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As of today, DataDesk has not charged my card nor sent me any sort of email confirmation.
Which is just fine with me. I just picked up a NIB Mac-101e off of eBay for $15. ;)
I was going to buy it but I was still waiting confirmation email from the seller that he will ship it to Bulgaria, and when I received it I saw that it was already too late :)
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It's been a week and I have not received any sort of email confirmation; nor has my credit card been charged.
So, I emailed DataDesk and asked them to either provide me a tracking number if the keyboard has shipped or, if it has not shipped, to cancel my order.
They have never responded to email before, so I am fully expecting to have to follow up with a phone call.
I officially renounce my comments about encouraging this company to bring back the 101e. If they can't handle a simple phone order, I don't want to ever have to deal with them again.
(My appreciation of folks like Jim Owens at Unicomp is growing) :)
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I will second that on Jim Owens at Unicomp. He has always responded to my emails and phone calls in a timely manner.
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Speaking of Unicomp, any word on the buckling spring mighty mouse?
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Jim didn't mention it in my last email, which was yesterday.
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Well, received the MAC 101E. First impressions...really sloppy. Not sure why, but it doesn't feel even close to as clean and crisp as the MK96. With the keycaps removed, the white Alps switches feel identical on the MK96 and the 101E, so it pretty much has to be how the keycaps interface with the switches.
There is a lot of wobble...I already mailed off the two MK96's I had, can anyone with one let me know how much key wobble you have on them (i'm guessing it is significantly less than what I experience on this board)
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Some Alps keyboards are bad that way. I remember my MK96 as not being very bad at all, and there wasn't any real difference between the original keys and the SMK85 keys. The Northgate has a bit more wobble, but it is nearly as old as my wife ...
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Some Alps keyboards are bad that way. I remember my MK96 as not being very bad at all, and there wasn't any real difference between the original keys and the SMK85 keys. The Northgate has a bit more wobble, but it is nearly as old as my wife ...
I think there is a strong case to be made that the crosshair design on the Cherry switches is superior to the Alps design.
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Superior in that way.
That Alps is a great switch, give it some credit.
Did that sound *****y?
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Superior in that way. That Alps is a great switch, give it some credit. Did that sound *****y?
In what way do you believe the line of Alps switches are superior to Cherries? (I don't think there is a discernible advantage)
I think that the Alps line provided a wider variety...but that could simply be chalked up to inconsistency as well. :)
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I'm just saying, Alps wasn't a gang of hillbilly hacks that got lucky, they're one of the big three switch makers that have dominated the market for years past (when there was a market that is). There are a lot of people that prefer Alps to everything else. I know because I'm one of them.
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isn't it weird to be picky about keyboards when you can't touch type?
That's me you're talking about. I finally got around to joining this forum after iMav commented on my blog a while back. I don't touch-type, but I can sustain about 70 wpm (I did try to teach myself touch-typing once, but I got frustrated and quit because I never got up to the speed that I could manage with my "touch-hunt-and-peck" style).
It's interesting that iMav found the 101e to be sloppy, since I've always felt it has good action. I used a Matias Tactile for a while, and found that to be much sloppier, to the point where keys would occasionally bind on the way down. Assuming that my keyboard is objectively similar to iMav's (perhaps not a safe assumption), I'm now curious now what would be a keyboard with really good linear travel.
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Can anyone compare the Datadesk 101e to the Apple Extended II?
Thanks!
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I got a Datadesk 101E for sale in this thread (http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=1784) if anyone is interested.
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That's me you're talking about. I finally got around to joining this forum after iMav commented on my blog a while back. I don't touch-type, but I can sustain about 70 wpm (I did try to teach myself touch-typing once, but I got frustrated and quit because I never got up to the speed that I could manage with my "touch-hunt-and-peck" style).
So I'm not the only one.
I get about 60 wpm on two fingers. Many people who come into my workplace comment upon the sight; the rest are distracted by the Model M I do it on.
I honestly got to fancy keyboards because my typing style was destroying the cheap ones every six months, so I got a bunch of used ones trying to find ones that didn't have to be beaten to deliver a solid click. (I recall having a Focus 2000-Plus and 2001, and some moderately clicky Fujitsu thing, before I started picking up Ms-- it used to be nice living by a college's "sale of discarded equipment" shop)
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I don't touch type, because we were never taught it at my school; the focus was one learning how to use the computer software than the actual typing, whereas my parents generation learned to type on typewriters and then later on taught themselves how to use computers.
My typing method is one of those weird multiple finger hunt-and-peck. I think the reason I developed this method of typing is because I've played the piano since I was very young, so I'm used to my fingers accurately finding keys even with my hands moving around. I'm a reasonably fast typer when writing something that's in my head, or even something that's being dictated to me, but slow down to around 65-70WPM when doing those typing tests, even though I'm not looking at the keys. I don't know why because I'm not a slow reader either, and a lot of people say the opposite is true for them. :confused:
I estimate that I probably use between 2 and 4 fingers on each hand. I've tried to touch type, but it seriously slows me down because I've been typing like this for over 15 years. I don't know if touch typing is better for avoiding RSI than this method I use, but I've never suffered RSI typing like this.
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I'm a reasonably fast typer when writing something that's in my head, or even something that's being dictated to me, but slow down to around 65-70WPM when doing those typing tests, even though I'm not looking at the keys. I don't know why because I'm not a slow reader either, and a lot of people say the opposite is true for them. :confused:
It's because you put pressure on yourself to type fast and accurately. When I try to force myself to type fast, I make mistakes.
I estimate that I probably use between 2 and 4 fingers on each hand. I've tried to touch type, but it seriously slows me down because I've been typing like this for over 15 years. I don't know if touch typing is better for avoiding RSI than this method I use, but I've never suffered RSI typing like this.
I don't think you'll have RSI in your wrists. But most people who don't touch type if they do get RSI get it in the neck area because they are constantly looking down on the keyboard and up at the screen. That being said, I don't have any data to prove this theory. Take it with a grain of salt.