I'm pulling out of the group buy. If the rumors are true about EK carrying them, I would rather give my business to them. Brian's a good egg.
Couldn't care less if "Brian's" trying to supply it. I TRUST Boost 1000% more than Brian on any day of the week when it comes to delivery of any product(s).
Also about the so-called warranty on these, when was the last time a Realforce or HHKB was ever handed back within 1 year (that's the warranty period, please correct me if I'm wrong here) ?
If you're stupid enough to drive your Landcruiser over it, or use it as a boat paddle or even use it as a flame torch when you dip it in Kerosene, then maybe you can do an RMA (Brian would laugh in your face of course).
Hi gang,
Thought I'd drop in here since we've received a couple emails about this GB. While we have no obligation to say anything, we do have long connections to this community and I wanted to address some comments people have made as well.
I'll do this first:
TL,DR; We're getting a small shipment of FC660Cs in tomorrow and more in June, so they'll likely go on sale tomorrow or Saturday. The price will be slightly lower than what boost is offering, but you get our support.
The nitty gritty:
Of course you guys are free to do whatever you like, even though EK has exclusive distributorship of Leopold in the US, these GBs are not of any issue to us because they cannot match our price or service. I'm aware that the success of this group buy is probably two-fold; partly because boost has a good reputation here, but also because after EK has seemingly not taken the initiative to bring other recent Leopold products to the US; some people are understandably skeptical if any new Leopold products, like the FC660, will come at all and therefore take advantage of GBs instead of waiting for EK to deliver.
Aside: I want everyone to know that EK has very good reasons for what products we decided to carry. We want to fulfill customer expectations, but not at the cost of ruining our reputation with broken promises which would put the health of our business at risk. This is much easier said than done when it comes to niche products sourced from young companies on the other side of the planet, as we sorely found out with FILCO years ago, and while I wish I could share all the whys and whats, we unfortunately are not at liberty to discuss details of our suppliers' businesses and manufacturing. So I can only ask for your understanding; we do what we do in both our interests.
So, should you go through this GB or wait for EK to put these on sale?
Reasons to GB:
- Our supply this month is very limited; you might get lucky and get one sooner through the GB after EK sells out.
- EK does not ship to your country
- EK does not falsify customs value for foreign shipments
- You want to support boost
Reasons NOT to GB:
- If you're in the US or Canada and you fancy a warranty and support.
- If you're outside of the US or Canada and you fancy a liable seller and support; i.e. replacement parts, etc.
- You want to pay a lower retail price
- You're skeptical if boost can guarantee you get a working product and wonder if he will be liable if it is lost or damaged in transit (keep in mind that insurance for international packages cannot be higher than the customs value).
- These boards are in short supply this month. Unless boost has a direct line to Leopold and has already secured the stock for this groupbuy, then you may be disappointed with how long it takes to get your board...and end up paying more to boot.
Why might you want a warranty or to buy this board from EK?
- This is the first OEM Topre keyboard made in China. I'm under the impression that Topre is working very hard to make sure the factory is working to Topre standards, but the outcome is still unknown. We will not know for months.
- Even if you are in another country, we still offer support in the way of parts and troubleshooting and even the occasional replacement.
- Full liability for lost or damaged products.
I wanted to address this comment directly:I'm pulling out of the group buy. If the rumors are true about EK carrying them, I would rather give my business to them. Brian's a good egg.
Couldn't care less if "Brian's" trying to supply it. I TRUST Boost 1000% more than Brian on any day of the week when it comes to delivery of any product(s).
Also about the so-called warranty on these, when was the last time a Realforce or HHKB was ever handed back within 1 year (that's the warranty period, please correct me if I'm wrong here) ?
If you're stupid enough to drive your Landcruiser over it, or use it as a boat paddle or even use it as a flame torch when you dip it in Kerosene, then maybe you can do an RMA (Brian would laugh in your face of course).
I'll correct you since you have no data from which to draw such a conclusion. Topre has a manufacturing goal of only 1 in 10,000 failure rate in the first year, and they are very close to living up to it, but Topre customers have very high standards (and they should for what these boards cost) so boards occasionally come back for fit and finish issues such as misaligned switch springs or cases, inconsistent key weighting, squeaking keys, or broken parts. Likelihood is you won't need the EK warranty, but buying from us, regardless of your location entitles you to parts and support for as long as you have the product.
BTW, someone did RMA a board to us that looked like it was dipped in Kerosene and used as a torch. I didn't laugh at him, but I did ignore him.
I'm not sure what to think about that response; I've never had an issue ek and I'll buy from him again but buddy your response kind of sort of comes off as an insult to boost, at least from my perspective that is
I'm not sure what to think about that response; I've never had an issue ek and I'll buy from him again but buddy your response kind of sort of comes off as an insult to boost, at least from my perspective that is
Not sure I see an insult in there anywhere, just plain facts. If boost wants to offer coverage for loss or damage, or be responsible for replacing the keyboard in either event, then I guess you could make an argument for that. But if not, Brian brings up several valid points.
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
Qtan has correctly labelled him right here. As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.
If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.
I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser 8) .
Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him the get away with this type of behaviour. In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?
For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there :p .
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
Qtan has correctly labelled him right here. As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.
If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.
I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser 8) .
Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him to get away with this type of behaviour. In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?
For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there :p .
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
I am speaking this because we will face it again and again the competition between exclusive distributorship and international seller won't end soon. It is very important that we have rule a agreements upon how we behavior. Jumping into someone's selling post to say such thing is like I went to your website post my selling information. Just think about what will be your reaction to such thing? I am might also able to sell this board as same as you could, think about that, what happen if I go to your website and starting that I can sell lower price then your selling right now and provide the same support as you can?
I have no business with this group buy, just drop in by accident. But I want to support the community by sharing my view. I am have no what against ek said, but I do against he address the issue under business name in the post.
qtan makes some good points... EK could keep it short and only comment to defend themselves on whatever negative was said about them, without the sales pitch on someone else's GB thread.
On the other hand, Boost recently stated the group buy ended today at 10pm EST, and EK posted AFTER the group buy ended. So what EK did wasn't as bad as was made out to be, although still a bit questionable :-/
So this isn't hurting boost in any way, and besides, I think the GB was only to provide a service, not profit. This is proven by the fact he chose to end the GB several days earlier than what was stated in the OP.
So all in all no harm done, I'm sure the GB will do fine, and it's also nice to see this interesting keyboard brought by EK.
My main beef about the whole thing is that this keyboard is lacking 2 important physical keys (for pgup/pgdown) when there is clearly room for them :-)
You bring up very valid and honest points. However, it's pretty obvious that this was done with a motive to bring potential sales to your own website. It's a slap in the face for the GB and Boost if you asked me. The only relevant thing needed to be said was when they were going to be available, and price. Then GH members or your potential customers can decide themselves which route to go. I'm not saying this because I'm picking sides, but rather saying there could have been a much better way to advertise or be informative.
It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.
Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.
First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.
Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition. If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.
Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous. I know many others group buyer runner does so.
Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.
And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.
I don't have the right to decide if you go beyond the rule. But I am just questioning. We all know how business works, members make their choice. I can't ask other things, but I am right to ask you to stop branch marking people, it is a bad move.
It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:
E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.
I don't have the right to decide if you go beyond the rule. But I am just questioning. We all know how business works, members make their choice. I can't ask other things, but I am right to ask you to stop branch marking people, it is a bad move.
It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:
E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.
It is up to Geekhack to decide what they make the rule. Until anything new come up, we enjoy our group buy.
It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.
Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.
First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.
Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition. If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.
Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous. I know many others group buyer runner does so.
Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.
And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.
Hi Qtan,
You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.
So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.
It's good you're questioning things; I don't have any problem with that. Things definitely could work smoother in such a situation as this. Perhaps this is an opportunity for the GH team to make an addition to the rules for group buys:
E.G. In the case that a member wants to run a group buy for a new or existing product that is, or may soon be, distributed by a known manufacturer-authorized distributor within the member's country/region, then the member should get authorization from the distributor before starting the group buy.
I really LOVE this. You are the only person here touting his own business aka Elitekeyboards who now want the Admin's here to stop anyone from organizing a Group Buy to purchase anything. What's all this really about besides stopping our freedoms which a whole lot of people have given their lives for over the years. I don't think having some greedy little man to start dictating his ONLY rule(s) upon everyone here on this forum.
I didn't know that Geekhack has suddenly become your agency?
As I understand it, Geekhack is INDEPENDENT meaning it is NOT a store nor a registered BUSINESS linked to you Brian. Instead it's a public forum. With public forums we the people who organize ourselves and others to help swap, purchase or make anything we want and distribute items to whomever wants it.
AGAIN I keep stating the bleeding obvious, who the HELL are you to lay down the laws for this FORUM?
Go elsewhere and push your business because it's not wanted here. Here is were the people want to discuss and organize a Group Buy that has NOTHING to do with YOU.
Wake up and smell the coffee, because it's not yours to drink :p .
It is not my logic to say anything, it is simply a clear rule has been placed here.
Threadcrapping: If you aren't interested in joining a group buy, STAY OUT OF THE GROUP BUY THREAD. This goes doubly so if you disagree with the way the buy is being run, the product being purchased, or have any other complaint not relevant to buying into the group buy. Repeat offenders put themselves in danger of moderator action.
First, I am suggesting you violated this rule, that's my logic.
Second, true speak as itself, customer make they own choice. Unless you believed that seller are giving misleading information or engaged in wrong doing, it is not your position to speak against the seller in this manner. What you consider is sour deal is your opinion. YOU are speaking not as a common member but as a seller who engaged direct competition. If you just a common member, you are free to compare or make commons, but please remember your position. If you believe you are acting in the interested to give them better deal that gave you the right ground to post it in this way, then I can claim in the same ground then open a ID start posting similar thing around your forum to saying somewhere has a thing that I consider it is a better deal? What do you feel about this? Try to go into Walmark and pop up a post said Target has a better deal next door, see what happen even if your speaking the true.
Finally, you making judgement over your knowledge, how would you know that group buyer runner don't pay tax? You are now attacking all group buyer runner by making this statement : "GB runners are NOT Mom'n'Pop businesses on the corner. They do not take ultimate liability, they do not guarantee support, they don't pay taxes, and worst of all: they're anonymous." If I did not misreading your word, that I have to ask you, to recall this unreasonable statement. I run group buy few times in the past and running the poker 2 group buy too, so I can say your statement is false. I provide standard customer support, I pay TAX, I take liability as all term are stated as a common store, I am not anonymous. I know many others group buyer runner does so.
Again, it is not the right place to discussed what your believes is right or wrong. You are free to call for support in the community in a appropriated place. I did say you posted wrong thing, but I do have to speak out that you posted on the wrong place.
And please do not branch marked GB runner, you don't have the ground to do so.
Hi Qtan,
You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.
So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.
You keep stating that you can stop this GB. Do you really have the power to control this type commerce occurring via private channels? How do you have any control over a private party in Korea (or wherever) buying some boards off the shelf and sending them to some "friends" in the US? In contrast, I can see where you could take action If I sourced a bunch of Leo's and opened an online store front. I'm more curious than anything here.
MoreHi gang,
Thought I'd drop in here since we've received a couple emails about this GB. While we have no obligation to say anything, we do have long connections to this community and I wanted to address some comments people have made as well.
I'll do this first:
TL,DR; We're getting a small shipment of FC660Cs in tomorrow and more in June, so they'll likely go on sale tomorrow or Saturday. The price will be slightly lower than what boost is offering, but you get our support.
The nitty gritty:
Of course you guys are free to do whatever you like, even though EK has exclusive distributorship of Leopold in the US, these GBs are not of any issue to us because they cannot match our price or service. I'm aware that the success of this group buy is probably two-fold; partly because boost has a good reputation here, but also because after EK has seemingly not taken the initiative to bring other recent Leopold products to the US; some people are understandably skeptical if any new Leopold products, like the FC660, will come at all and therefore take advantage of GBs instead of waiting for EK to deliver.
Aside: I want everyone to know that EK has very good reasons for what products we decided to carry. We want to fulfill customer expectations, but not at the cost of ruining our reputation with broken promises which would put the health of our business at risk. This is much easier said than done when it comes to niche products sourced from young companies on the other side of the planet, as we sorely found out with FILCO years ago, and while I wish I could share all the whys and whats, we unfortunately are not at liberty to discuss details of our suppliers' businesses and manufacturing. So I can only ask for your understanding; we do what we do in both our interests.
So, should you go through this GB or wait for EK to put these on sale?
Reasons to GB:
- Our supply this month is very limited; you might get lucky and get one sooner through the GB after EK sells out.
- EK does not ship to your country
- EK does not falsify customs value for foreign shipments
- You want to support boost
Reasons NOT to GB:
- If you're in the US or Canada and you fancy a warranty and support.
- If you're outside of the US or Canada and you fancy a liable seller and support; i.e. replacement parts, etc.
- You want to pay a lower retail price
- You're skeptical if boost can guarantee you get a working product and wonder if he will be liable if it is lost or damaged in transit (keep in mind that insurance for international packages cannot be higher than the customs value).
- These boards are in short supply this month. Unless boost has a direct line to Leopold and has already secured the stock for this groupbuy, then you may be disappointed with how long it takes to get your board...and end up paying more to boot.
Why might you want a warranty or to buy this board from EK?
- This is the first OEM Topre keyboard made in China. I'm under the impression that Topre is working very hard to make sure the factory is working to Topre standards, but the outcome is still unknown. We will not know for months.
- Even if you are in another country, we still offer support in the way of parts and troubleshooting and even the occasional replacement.
- Full liability for lost or damaged products.
I wanted to address this comment directly:I'm pulling out of the group buy. If the rumors are true about EK carrying them, I would rather give my business to them. Brian's a good egg.
Couldn't care less if "Brian's" trying to supply it. I TRUST Boost 1000% more than Brian on any day of the week when it comes to delivery of any product(s).
Also about the so-called warranty on these, when was the last time a Realforce or HHKB was ever handed back within 1 year (that's the warranty period, please correct me if I'm wrong here) ?
If you're stupid enough to drive your Landcruiser over it, or use it as a boat paddle or even use it as a flame torch when you dip it in Kerosene, then maybe you can do an RMA (Brian would laugh in your face of course).
I'll correct you since you have no data from which to draw such a conclusion. Topre has a manufacturing goal of only 1 in 10,000 failure rate in the first year, and they are very close to living up to it, but Topre customers have very high standards (and they should for what these boards cost) so boards occasionally come back for fit and finish issues such as misaligned switch springs or cases, inconsistent key weighting, squeaking keys, or broken parts. Likelihood is you won't need the EK warranty, but buying from us, regardless of your location entitles you to parts and support for as long as you have the product.
BTW, someone did RMA a board to us that looked like it was dipped in Kerosene and used as a torch. I didn't laugh at him, but I did ignore him.
You bring up very valid and honest points. However, it's pretty obvious that this was done with a motive to bring potential sales to your own website. It's a slap in the face for the GB and Boost if you asked me. The only relevant thing needed to be said was when they were going to be available, and price. Then GH members or your potential customers can decide themselves which route to go. I'm not saying this because I'm picking sides, but rather saying there could have been a much better way to advertise or be informative.
Hi EK,
A group buy is a group buy is a group buy. If you feel it is a breach of contract on someone else's part, the proper action as you very well know is to notify them that they are in breach of contract and notify them of either imminent legal action or invocation of the penalties stated in the contract, if any.
In the mean time, you are crapping all over this thread despite multiple warnings and strong community backlash.
If you would like to discuss your supplier contracts, please do so either in off-topic or in your own vendor forum (a single PM to me can re-establish it).
If you would like to whine about nothing in particular, please do so in off-topic.
I do not want to see you post again in this thread. If you do, I will split the thread myself into off-topic.
Naturally, Boost will not be involved in any moderation or administrative decisions involving this thread or any threads related to it.
-kawa
Hi EK,
A group buy is a group buy is a group buy. If you feel it is a breach of contract on someone else's part, the proper action as you very well know is to notify them that they are in breach of contract and notify them of either imminent legal action or invocation of the penalties stated in the contract, if any.
In the mean time, you are crapping all over this thread despite multiple warnings and strong community backlash.
If you would like to discuss your supplier contracts, please do so either in off-topic or in your own vendor forum (a single PM to me can re-establish it).
If you would like to whine about nothing in particular, please do so in off-topic.
I do not want to see you post again in this thread. If you do, I will split the thread myself into off-topic.
Naturally, Boost will not be involved in any moderation or administrative decisions involving this thread or any threads related to it.
-kawa
I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/That is, until there is another CC sale, right?
I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/That is, until there is another CC sale, right?
I have had nothing but positive experiences with www.elitekeyboards.com and Brian in all my dealings with him, but after this thread I'm not sure I'd buy from him again.... =/That is, until there is another CC sale, right?
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
Qtan has correctly labelled him right here. As usual Brian likes to take the stage for himself instead of budding out of a GROUP BUY.
If he wants business then advertise it in your OWN SALES section here on Geekhack.
I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser 8) .
Good that Qtan needs to set the rules for him here instead of all the fanboys allowing him to get away with this type of behaviour. In fact for the Fanboys, just go to EK and get your goods, why stop here then?
For the REST of us that want to be here in this GROUP BUY arranged by our ever trustworthy Boost, we're not going anywhere.........so there :p .
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser 8) .
EK, as member of community I want to said that you are in the wrong place to discuss this topic. It is very important to respect people's affect for they work. People buy from community member has their good reason like I prefer my friendly small local store than Wal-mark. Trying to marking, under your business name in this post is bad bad bad move, as so far I can consider it is against the rule of group buy.
I say it once and I'll say it a THOUSAND times Brian is a complete tosser 8) .
did brian **** your girlfriend or something? i dont know what your deal is, but your constant **** talking about him and EK is getting annoying. you had one bad experience with him, fine, don't purchase from him. but stop dragging his name through the dirt because you're a whiny little *****.
While I have had nothing but positive experiences with EliteKeyboards, I must say that the statement about ending the GB caught me by surprise. I do NOT appreciate that attitude,
I think most of you people are being complete psychos, including the mods.
EK says they can enforce their North American exclusivity "with one phone call" and I believe him. It doesn't matter if I agree with him or not. I won't even bring up First Sale Doctrine because it makes no difference. I believe him.
kawa: you censor EK like that, maybe that pushes him over the edge and he pulls the plug. You ever consider that?
That being said, it is in everyone's best interests to know their options. Why is there so much HATE? God damn. If qtan and elrick didn't start attacking EK like f'ing crazy then everyone would still be happy. People would understand their options for buying retail and boosts GB could continue without the drama. What do we have instead? What I see in this thread is EK acting professional and everyone else being ****s.
How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?
Kawa didn't censor anyone. He made an attempt to re-rail that thread by moving the discussion.
The OG post from EK was not the place for that and his responses after sunk him deeper.
How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?
I'm guessing you know about as much as I do about the specifics of how these products are imported. That is to say, ZERO. So don't just make assumptions.
kawa: you censor EK like that, maybe that pushes him over the edge and he pulls the plug. You ever consider that?
How would he stop someone in Korea sending Boost some keyboards?
I'm guessing you know about as much as I do about the specifics of how these products are imported. That is to say, ZERO. So don't just make assumptions.
Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over).
His arrogance and attitude toward the community that likely makes up a significant chunk of his business is eyebrow-raising, IMO.
It's the I can shut this group buy down with one phone call (based on assumptions), after crapping up boost's GB thread (against forum rules) that upset people, and rightfully so. He started the post off with "While we have no obligation to say anything" which further implies that he doesn't really care about us as a community, and from what I've seen, EK usually only stops in to post when people badmouth his business or bring competition.
Options are always good for the community, but I believe EK crossed a line in trying to let the community know that he will stock these as well. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.(emphasis added)
Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over).
Options are always good for the community, but I believe EK crossed a line in trying to let the community know that he will stock these as well. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.(emphasis added)
I'm speachless. i feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.
Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over).
Again, I know ZERO about it, although everyone else seems to think they know everything about it. I'll just shoot one word out there that might be a possibility: Customs.
Based on this same logic, EK shouldn't have assumed that boost is ordering the GB keyboards directly from a Korean vendor (which would enable him to stop the GB) rather than having a Korean proxy buy the keyboards and ship them to us (which he has no control over).
Again, I know ZERO about it, although everyone else seems to think they know everything about it. I'll just shoot one word out there that might be a possibility: Customs.
I don't think I know everything about exclusive distribution contracts, but I'm almost positive that customs doesn't enforce these contracts. They enforce Copyright and patent laws, ensure that items are federally legal, and enforce import taxes (and probably some other stuff too). If EK believes that another Topre or Leopold retailer / distributor is breaking the terms of their exclusive distribution contract, they can file a civil lawsuit and will most likely win with the contract on their side. International law is complex, however, so a more likely solution would be EK calls Topre/Leopold and the offender's distribution rights get revoked. A group buy, as long as no one is making a profit, is not a breach of any exclusive distribution contract, unless the items are purchased directly from an out-of-market vendor who has agreed not to distribute to your market. A consumer proxy can do whatever they want once they have purchased something at retail, include ship the item to an end user in another market. This is called grey market sales, is completely legal, and cannot be controlled by the manufacturer or vendors. It is on the manufacturer and vendor to set prices closely across markets so that there isn't incentive for buyers to organize out-of-market group buys to save money, which according to EK's 660C price estimate happened successfully, therefore they have nothing to worry about after this GB is complete (but clearly they are sour that it's happening at all).
All EK had to do was NOT make threats and NOT violate GH rules; everything else they posted was useful information. If they didn't decline to have a vendor forum, a place where they could inform us of upcoming products, this whole thing could have been avoided in the first place, as the only reason this GB is happening was because EK still hasn't stocked Leopold's most recently released keyboards and refuses to give their customers any info as to why, so there was concern they would do the same with the 660C.
I'll reiterate, I don't know everything about exclusive distribution contracts and international business law, so take all this with a grain of salt. I'll also mention that I don't agree with exclusive distribution contracts, they are a method of price control and are likely part of the reason Topre keyboards are so expensive.
Is quite funny to see how Brian tells you about the oportunity of purchasing the Leopold 660C in the next days and most of you get mad because he wrote it in a GB thread.
Group Buys are made to help the community getting items you wouldn't be able to get otherwise so where's the problem in Brian saying that he could get the keyboards cheaper, faster and with full warranty? I don't understand your point of view.
If anyone interested can get the keyboard faster and cheaper with warranty I don't see why would someone prefer to get one from a GB.
I'm really sure that if some EU folks were trying to get some Realforce keyboards and to name someone, Bruce was telling us that he could get those keyboards for cheaper price and faster no one would refuse the chance to get them trough a reputed seller like Keyboardco and save the trouble from purchasing outside EU.
I think there's to much hate in here. I don't see the problem in Brian letting us know that he will be carrying the keyboards. The only one angry about it might be Boost if he was runnning the GB for profit (I don't know that).
Is quite funny to see how Brian tells you about the oportunity of purchasing the Leopold 660C in the next days and most of you get mad because he wrote it in a GB thread.
Group Buys are made to help the community getting items you wouldn't be able to get otherwise so where's the problem in Brian saying that he could get the keyboards cheaper, faster and with full warranty? I don't understand your point of view.
If anyone interested can get the keyboard faster and cheaper with warranty I don't see why would someone prefer to get one from a GB.
I'm really sure that if some EU folks were trying to get some Realforce keyboards and to name someone, Bruce was telling us that he could get those keyboards for cheaper price and faster no one would refuse the chance to get them trough a reputed seller like Keyboardco and save the trouble from purchasing outside EU.
I think there's to much hate in here. I don't see the problem in Brian letting us know that he will be carrying the keyboards. The only one angry about it might be Boost if he was runnning the GB for profit (I don't know that).
You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.
So you're mistaken in saying that I am engaged in direct competition; when it comes to products that EK has exclusive distribution for in North America, there isn't any. I realize this probably sounds tyrannical, but this is how business works, it's pretty cut and dry.
Pitchforks were in order.
Agreed 'Qaz. So... Epsilon 2.0, I suggest a 660C layout. We should do a GB and sell them at Techkeys. :))Touché
All I actually saw in the thread was Elrick inciting crap against EK (I have no idea why, personal beef?) and qtan going off tangent about business morals and practices, a discussion that should've been taken somewhere else, perhaps pm.
EK actually makes a few valid and reasonable points, and is actually justified to defend his own position, albeit in a high-handed manner that no one likes (not saying that it's wrong, but its a dumb move cuz no one likes that crap).
The smart thing for him to do would've been to refuse to engage the two in the first place, after his first post, which I found no real problems with, although it could have been much shorter and could do without the whole 'this won't affect my business, so I don't care' attitude. There were a few insinuations that could have been interpreted either way, but he never did take a dump on Boost's credibility in the first place imo.
I understand why EK reacted the way he did. It's fine for someone to say that he trusts Boost alot. No problem. As far as boost is concerned, I think he seems like a great guy. But there was never any need to add in a comparison. 'I trust Boost 1000% more than Brian (EK)?'. I don't see any reason for a comparison, except to start a fight or just give a backhanded insult to someone.
Those with children would understand. "Oh your son is so cute." -> "Yea, he's about 1000% cuter than your daughter." If anyone doesn't take offense at that, I'd like to meet him/her.
Imo the drama was incited and aggravated by just two members, Elrick and qtan. EK responded to them in a way that would rub the rest of the community the wrong way.
^All I actually saw in the thread was Elrick inciting crap against EK (I have no idea why, personal beef?) and qtan going off tangent about business morals and practices, a discussion that should've been taken somewhere else, perhaps pm.
EK actually makes a few valid and reasonable points, and is actually justified to defend his own position, albeit in a high-handed manner that no one likes (not saying that it's wrong, but its a dumb move cuz no one likes that crap).
The smart thing for him to do would've been to refuse to engage the two in the first place, after his first post, which I found no real problems with, although it could have been much shorter and could do without the whole 'this won't affect my business, so I don't care' attitude. There were a few insinuations that could have been interpreted either way, but he never did take a dump on Boost's credibility in the first place imo.
I understand why EK reacted the way he did. It's fine for someone to say that he trusts Boost alot. No problem. As far as boost is concerned, I think he seems like a great guy. But there was never any need to add in a comparison. 'I trust Boost 1000% more than Brian (EK)?'. I don't see any reason for a comparison, except to start a fight or just give a backhanded insult to someone.
Those with children would understand. "Oh your son is so cute." -> "Yea, he's about 1000% cuter than your daughter." If anyone doesn't take offense at that, I'd like to meet him/her.
Imo the drama was incited and aggravated by just two members, Elrick and qtan. EK responded to them in a way that would rub the rest of the community the wrong way.
tl;dr elrick is an annoying kiss ass.
tl;dr elrick is an annoying kiss ass.
You're right, I'm not a common member, therefore the common member rules do not apply to me in the case of group buys...particularly this GB. Why not? Because this group buy goes forward because I allow it to. If I want to to stop it; I just make a phone call.
Nevermind the 600c im still waiting for elitekeyboards to get the 700r! Its been forever, and ive contacted them numerous times. I feel like all these sites that u can get keyboards from NEVER have what you want in stock so you have to venture elsewhere and spend a fortune OR take a chance with a private seller.
Well, 700R is exclusive to Korean market. However, I am consider carry a few of them. I am in Seoul and just have to check out the shipping part before I can start selling some leopold product.
tl;dr elrick is an annoying kiss ass.
Yup, nice to see someone's evident grudge ruin a situation. Also glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this.
I didn't know that the FC700 was exclusive to the Korean market, perhaps Brian should have responded to requests by saying that instead of "ignoring" them? I can understand that people wouldn't think he'd bring in the 660 series (I sure didn't, but am glad he is), but wish he announced it better. I'm also curious if he's going to bring in the MX version as well.
A sad situation that could have been avoided. :(
Any idea if the FC660C will ever be available in other colors; white and/or gray?
Any idea if the FC660C will ever be available in other colors; white and/or gray?
The retail box has a checkbox printed on it for both black and white boards, so we can assume there is some intention to make a white board, but nothing has been announced from Leopold Korea yet.
So if anyone wants to perform a GB for Leopolds, regardless of the fact that they'll never be sold by the "sole" reseller of them in the US (i.e. 700R), they can't because you're the only one who can? That's ridiculous. Who knows what you'll pick and choose to sell, and you can't stop a GB from happening, because it isn't resale.
i just want to make it clear the elitekeyboards is a common member. everyone here is. this is a community. no one is so important that they can break the rules with impunity. i don't care what you sell or how many phone calls you can make. no one on the 100% volunteer moderation and administration team cares when it comes to enforcing our forums' rules.
i just want to make it clear the elitekeyboards is a common member. everyone here is. this is a community. no one is so important that they can break the rules with impunity. i don't care what you sell or how many phone calls you can make. no one on the 100% volunteer moderation and administration team cares when it comes to enforcing our forums' rules.
GH does not exist to protect any vendor or non-vendor's market share, period. EK is wrong and will be receiving this exact same information in a PM shortly. We are currently considering whether punitive action will be appropriate for future outbursts in the style of the one that caused this thread split.
I'm not sure what to think about that response; I've never had an issue ek and I'll buy from him again but buddy your response kind of sort of comes off as an insult to boost, at least from my perspective that is
So if anyone wants to perform a GB for Leopolds, regardless of the fact that they'll never be sold by the "sole" reseller of them in the US (i.e. 700R), they can't because you're the only one who can? That's ridiculous. Who knows what you'll pick and choose to sell, and you can't stop a GB from happening, because it isn't resale.
i just want to make it clear the elitekeyboards is a common member. everyone here is. this is a community. no one is so important that they can break the rules with impunity. i don't care what you sell or how many phone calls you can make. no one on the 100% volunteer moderation and administration team cares when it comes to enforcing our forums' rules.
GH does not exist to protect any vendor or non-vendor's market share, period. EK is wrong and will be receiving this exact same information in a PM shortly. We are currently considering whether punitive action will be appropriate for future outbursts in the style of the one that caused this thread split.
i just want to make it clear the elitekeyboards is a common member. everyone here is. this is a community. no one is so important that they can break the rules with impunity. i don't care what you sell or how many phone calls you can make. no one on the 100% volunteer moderation and administration team cares when it comes to enforcing our forums' rules.
GH does not exist to protect any vendor or non-vendor's market share, period. EK is wrong and will be receiving this exact same information in a PM shortly. We are currently considering whether punitive action will be appropriate for future outbursts in the style of the one that caused this thread split.
All I know is I drink the hell out of Mexican Coke here in Texas. The bottlers here hate it and have tried to sue a few different parties to stop it. Coke themselves have tried to stop it. Yet, it's at every gas station I go to, it's at Sam's and it's at Costco. It's imported to the US from Mexico and sold openly through a distributor that has no Coke contract. Coke can't stop it, they can just threaten the bottler in Mexico. That bottler says they don't sell to the distributor. So the distributor is buying it from another distributor in Mexico.
Coke doesn't like it and says/wants it to be illegal. Yet, I've been buying it for over 5 years now... if anything it's more popular than ever before.
(It has real sugar... not high fructose corn syrup)
I want Mexican coke...in Canada.
Mexican Coke > US Coke
Please don't misconstrue that as an allegory for the situation in this thread. It's meant very literally.
@EK
1.Your distribution contract with Leopold applies to individuals importing keyboards? I find that hard to believe. I can see why you have concerns but clearly you felt threatened and IMO went about this the wrong way. You'll find you catch more flies with honey.
2.What does GH exist for? Well it sure doesn't exist just so people can make money off of it. GH was here with an active community long before the majority of these new businesses.
One would think you would be more grateful to us instead of the other way around. You get free referrals through search engine results, posts, threads, etc which directly benefit you. But what have you done directly to help keep the site running?
On a side note I'd really like to see what a counterfeit Topre board is like :p
*Disclaimer: This is my personal view and in no way reflects the views of the staff in general.
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42728.msg877481#msg877481Quote2.What does GH exist for? Well it sure doesn't exist just so people can make money off of it. GH was here with an active community long before the majority of these new businesses.
Given that a moderator was running a GB wherein he didn't state his purchase price, the strong protectiveness of the GB rules, and the threat of "punitive action" from mkawa for a repeated GB upset; some might consider GH is about money.
All I know is I drink the hell out of Mexican Coke here in Texas. The bottlers here hate it and have tried to sue a few different parties to stop it. Coke themselves have tried to stop it. Yet, it's at every gas station I go to, it's at Sam's and it's at Costco. It's imported to the US from Mexico and sold openly through a distributor that has no Coke contract. Coke can't stop it, they can just threaten the bottler in Mexico. That bottler says they don't sell to the distributor. So the distributor is buying it from another distributor in Mexico.
Coke doesn't like it and says/wants it to be illegal. Yet, I've been buying it for over 5 years now... if anything it's more popular than ever before.
(It has real sugar... not high fructose corn syrup)
All I know is I drink the hell out of Mexican Coke here in Texas. The bottlers here hate it and have tried to sue a few different parties to stop it. Coke themselves have tried to stop it. Yet, it's at every gas station I go to, it's at Sam's and it's at Costco. It's imported to the US from Mexico and sold openly through a distributor that has no Coke contract. Coke can't stop it, they can just threaten the bottler in Mexico. That bottler says they don't sell to the distributor. So the distributor is buying it from another distributor in Mexico.
Coke doesn't like it and says/wants it to be illegal. Yet, I've been buying it for over 5 years now... if anything it's more popular than ever before.
(It has real sugar... not high fructose corn syrup)
Hmm, this is interesting. If Mexican Coca Cola is really made from cane sugar, instead of corn syrup, it's actually a different product, and the Texas-based Coke distributor might be unable to stop the sales, or he might be unwilling to test his exclusive rights contract in court (for fear of losing.)
Either way though, you are talking about smuggling. Smuggling happens. It's illegal. I guess nobody really cares too much about cross-border Coca Cola smuggling, except maybe the millionaire Texas Coke distributor and his family (i.e., heirs), because everyone assumes it's probably not a revenue stream for gangsters and terrorists, like smuggling drugs, guns, women for sex trafficking, and other things. But you never know. Especially when it comes from Mexico.
Parallel imports are never unlawful ;D
Smugging is tax evasion, parallel import is just another lawful way of selling items in the capitalist society we have today.
EK gives the impression that he holds monopoly of the Topre/Leopold market in US, which cannot be true, as anti-trust laws exist......
Parallel imports are never unlawful ;D
Smugging is tax evasion, parallel import is just another lawful way of selling items in the capitalist society we have today.
EK gives the impression that he holds monopoly of the Topre/Leopold market in US, which cannot be true, as anti-trust laws exist......
Just because someone has a monopoly doesn't mean they're violating antitrust laws. There are many perfectly legal monopolies on the market, it's when you abuse your monopoly power that antitrust laws come into effect. And in a case like this, good luck arguing monopoly or abuse of monopoly. You have to be the sole provider of a good without viable alternatives to be considered under antitrust.
What Boost was doing was looking at grey market goods. There's nothing wrong with that at all. I have bought many grey market goods, namely textbooks, but if Boost was working with a distributor in another country and not using an agent (like you would with Taobao), they could be violating resale and distribution agreements with Leopold. While not illegal, it can result in someone losing their distribution rights or contracts with Leopold.
i love mexican coke, i'll be getting my diabetes the natural way, with real sugar. not no damn high fructose corn syrup.
Also, proxy also is a common business act which also protected by law. If I pay someone(or a business) to buy something for you, as an end custom oversea and send the item back to me, I am acting within my right. However, if I intend to resell it for making a profit in the states, then it might become a unlawful action.
I'm a coder, not a lawyer. But my understanding is that buying through a proxy is fine for an individual. However, reselling the product(s) would probably not be, and I doubt the lack of profit changes that.
I'm glad we have these group buys. I hope they don't stop. But from a legal standpoint, reselling is reselling, regardless of profit.
Columbian Coke > Mexican Coke > US Coke