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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Retrete on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:07:37

Title: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: Retrete on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:07:37: Hi! Anyone knows something about this keyboard? Type of switches?
(http://oi40.tinypic.com/1zjkzk.jpg)
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: Rule16 on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:16:08: Looks nearly identical to my chicony packard bell, which has green alps. Not sure what this has but it wont work on a modern computer without some modding or a special converter.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:55:15: Quote from: Rule16 on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:16:08
Looks nearly identical to my chicony packard bell, which has green alps. Not sure what this has but it wont work on a modern computer without some modding or a special converter.

Yeah. You're not sure. So maybe don't speak up so quickly.

That's a Groupe Bull (Bull SAS) PC-side interface keyboard. That particular example typically goes to an SPS-9 client system or may go to a Bull/GE GCOS client and should speak standard XT protocol. The reason for the odd layout is because it's Spanish non-ISO.
It doesn't go to a Netstation or DPX2 console - both of those are full 101 key layouts. Same for their POWER stuff - and the early POWER is 122 F12+PF12 IIRC.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: Rule16 on Sun, 19 May 2013, 14:45:53: Quote from: rootwyrm on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:55:15
Quote from: Rule16 on Sun, 19 May 2013, 13:16:08
Looks nearly identical to my chicony packard bell, which has green alps. Not sure what this has but it wont work on a modern computer without some modding or a special converter.

Yeah. You're not sure. So maybe don't speak up so quickly.

That's a Groupe Bull (Bull SAS) PC-side interface keyboard. That particular example typically goes to an SPS-9 client system or may go to a Bull/GE GCOS client and should speak standard XT protocol. The reason for the odd layout is because it's Spanish non-ISO.
It doesn't go to a Netstation or DPX2 console - both of those are full 101 key layouts. Same for their POWER stuff - and the early POWER is 122 F12+PF12 IIRC.
No need to be a jackass about it, I only told him what I was sure about.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 15:45:48: It's a Cherry G80-0something, I can't find the exact model right at the moment. I am pretty sure it is an AT keyboard, probably has black switch and nice ES doubleshots. I would love to get one of these, if it is a good price you should buy it. Will look good after a retrobrighting.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:17:01: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 15:45:48
It's a Cherry G80-0something, I can't find the exact model right at the moment. I am pretty sure it is an AT keyboard, probably has black switch and nice ES doubleshots. I would love to get one of these, if it is a good price you should buy it. Will look good after a retrobrighting.

The Bull's with only up to F10 should be exclusively XT or proprietary by design, since I believe it would have been attached to a rebranded Zenith XT-era PC or a DPS console. The one you're thinking of is the Cherry G80-0915 (http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_G80-0915) but they're not identical obviously. IIRC later GCOS terminals used the G80-1306, but it really has been a very long time. (I used to work on Bull-Escala gear fairly regularly.) It's definitely not a POWER era one, since those are all IBM Model M rebrands or Honeywell-Bull.

It's definitely DPS7-DPX era though. Here's a picture showing a console from a DPX/2 showing the standard keyboard.
(http://www.histoireinform.com/Histoire/+infos2/DPX2_320.jpg)
As you can see, totally different keyboard and not a Cherry. It's also not a BDS-5 keyboard because the BDS-5 used Serial-Over-DIN5 and the keyboard was built by Honeywell Keyboard Division. This is one of the Honeywell-Bull terminal keyboards (http://www.recycledgoods.com/zoom/23248). Yes, same one as on the DPX/2.

Amusingly enough, Zenith Data Systems used an in-house built keyboard with a similar layout but using Alps Greens. Also ZDS was a majority owned subsidiary of Groupe Bull until 1996. Hence why I'm thinking it's an XT-era GCOS. As to what switches are on it, anyone's guess there - they have always been notoriously inconsistent about parts being swapped around mid-flight.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:29:57: No. The 0915 is a commodore keyboard based on the earlier 0499. The G80 I am thinking of was an IBM F AT copy, just like what is in the OP. I think it's model was under 0700 but since I can't find it I am not entirely certain.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: mbc on Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:41:52: lysol is (partially) right
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3642/dsc00084011024.jpg)
http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/cherry-g80-0929h-t5616.html
there are AT and XT versions with this case
PS: model numbers are pretty random with these, I guess it changed for each custom order
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:08:24: Put that in the wiki so I can find it later! :p
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: rootwyrm on Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:45:26: Quote from: mbc on Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:41:52
lysol is (partially) right
Show Image
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3642/dsc00084011024.jpg)

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/cherry-g80-0929h-t5616.html
there are AT and XT versions with this case
PS: model numbers are pretty random with these, I guess it changed for each custom order

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:08:24
Put that in the wiki so I can find it later! :p

Ahha. Yes, that's the base. As you can see though, the 0929 is not identical - the Bull has modifications to the layout. So the Bull probably has a different PN and there probably weren't many made before they decided to randomly jump manufacturers again. Especially since, as I mentioned, Bull didn't really do any x86 hardware back then. They'd just slap a badge on a Zenith.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 23:41:48: One in OP is Spanish, mbc is German... it would have a different model code for sure since it has a different language layout. May or may not have a different 092* or some other part number if it used a different protocol, depend on if custom order and how consistent Cherry was feeling then. In any case I am still 99% confident it is a G80.
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: rootwyrm on Mon, 20 May 2013, 03:38:31: Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 23:41:48
One in OP is Spanish, mbc is German... it would have a different model code for sure since it has a different language layout. May or may not have a different 092* or some other part number if it used a different protocol, depend on if custom order and how consistent Cherry was feeling then. In any case I am still 99% confident it is a G80.

Actually, the one in OP looks like it's Spanish-French, not Spanish. Groupe Bull is, no surprise here, a French company. Except during this era, it was actually owned by France. As in nationalized. Their primary markets were, no surprise here, France and French-speaking Belgium and Spain. (Nationalization occurred in 1982 and was subsequently re-privitised in 1994.)

The thing is, you're looking at a keyboard which is definitely Micral 30 era - 1985ish. But here's the thing: that's not a Micral 30 keyboard.
(http://www.histoireinform.com/Histoire/+infos6/Micral_30.jpg)
Notice, oh, I don't know, about thirty differences between the G80-0929 frame and the Micral 30? Give or take. And it's definitely not a Micral 60 keyboard, because the Micral 60 required a 101 key. It's not a Zenith because, well, come on. We know the Zenith keyboards from the era were Alps with an entirely different layout. And definitely not made by Cherry. It's not a Honeywell either. Might be a filler-part due to low stock on Micral 30's, but I cannot imagine why they would use what is probably a more expensive part. *headscratch*
Title: Re: Rare&Old Bull keyboard
Post by: mbc on Mon, 20 May 2013, 05:08:12: Quote from: rootwyrm on Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:45:26
Quote from: mbc on Sun, 19 May 2013, 17:41:52
lysol is (partially) right
Show Image
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3642/dsc00084011024.jpg)

http://deskthority.net/photos-videos-f8/cherry-g80-0929h-t5616.html
there are AT and XT versions with this case
PS: model numbers are pretty random with these, I guess it changed for each custom order

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sun, 19 May 2013, 18:08:24
Put that in the wiki so I can find it later! :p

Ahha. Yes, that's the base. As you can see though, the 0929 is not identical - the Bull has modifications to the layout. So the Bull probably has a different PN and there probably weren't many made before they decided to randomly jump manufacturers again. Especially since, as I mentioned, Bull didn't really do any x86 hardware back then. They'd just slap a badge on a Zenith.
it's made by Cherry !