geekhack
geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: 1cc on Wed, 22 May 2013, 17:57:37
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Hi tere, I'm looking for an "affordable" TKL or even better 60% form factor, that doesn't come with a retarded hardware Fn-layer that can't be changed (like HHKB, HPE, Keycool, PLU 87, Noppoo Choc, Poker, Pure, Ducky, Quickfire, G600, ...). I'd rather do that **** in software.
Too bad I missed the GH60 group buy, but maybe there is something I'm missing? I guess there are Filco and Topre TKLs, but they're expensive as ****. Is there hope left?
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If you can wait, I would definitely hold out for someone who changes their mind and doesn't want their GH60 order anymore.
You can pick up sth's PCB, 1.5 ANSI plate and stabs right now, or wait for other offers.
Link - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35467.0
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What about lurking for a cheap Filco TKL board and then putting a HID Liberator in it?
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I know exactly what you mean, you could go the custom route like me, look up the dox project all together is going to cost you around $200-300 worth of DIY parts and case
plus I have all the Fn keys where I want it
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/icbob/L1010651_zps143f44cc.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/icbob/media/L1010651_zps143f44cc.jpg.html)
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If you can wait, I would definitely hold out for someone who changes their mind and doesn't want their GH60 order anymore.
You can pick up sth's PCB, 1.5 ANSI plate and stabs right now, or wait for other offers.
Link - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35467.0
How would I go about this, is there a waiting list for unfortunate beings like me or do I have to lurk the buy/sell forum?
What about lurking for a cheap Filco TKL board and then putting a HID Liberator in it?
What is this liberator thing, sounds like fun. (http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=HID_Liberator isn't helping)
I know exactly what you mean, you could go the custom route like me, look up the dox project all together is going to cost you around $200-300 worth of DIY parts and case
plus I have all the Fn keys where I want it
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/icbob/L1010651_zps143f44cc.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/icbob/media/L1010651_zps143f44cc.jpg.html)
Sounds neat, but that's way above my budget.
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If you can wait, I would definitely hold out for someone who changes their mind and doesn't want their GH60 order anymore.
You can pick up sth's PCB, 1.5 ANSI plate and stabs right now, or wait for other offers.
Link - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35467.0
How would I go about this, is there a waiting list for unfortunate beings like me or do I have to lurk the buy/sell forum?
You'd have to pay attention to the F/S section and PM people who were giving away their rights to GH60 stuff, just like the link I provided to sth's thread.
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Check this link out (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.390) for info on the HID Liberation thingy. I just call it the HID Liberator but I'm not sure that's the proper name. And just FYI, a "Site:geekhack.org (search term here)" search on Google works way better than the GH Wiki and GH Search.
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CPTBadAss ninja'd me, but yeah, it's bpiphany's HID Liberation Device (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35065.0).
I'm actually selling a Filco with an HLD right now here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=43775), if you're interested.
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Thanks for the offer jdcarpe, this price is hot, but I don't think it's the right board for me. Slap me if I'm wrong, but the stock Filco TKL has no Fn-key, so I'd already have ALL modifiers available. I guess it's great if you're on other machines all the time, but I have one Linux box to toy around with all day, and I can do all this crazy layout remapping stuff in software. The way I see it, the Filco is already free from hardware Fn-bull****. There's no need to liberate it.
But rest assured, this beauty will make one geekhacker very happy, one who'll appreciate it more than I ever could.
All of this makes me wonder, is there a way to liberate a Poker, i.e. can you restore the right alt key on one of those?
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What is wrong with doing the work on the hardware side? Software just adds more work for you computer.
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GH60's will definitely hit the market. There's just so many of them. Also there will probably be another run next year, right? The HIDLib on a Filco is also a cool option. I have one and I like it.
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What is wrong with doing the work on the hardware side? Software just adds more work for you computer.
Your computer already uses a specific layout by default, changing that to a custom layout doesn't add any more work. And there is indeed nothing wrong with doing it on the hardware side, it's just not necessary in my case.
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Thanks for the offer jdcarpe, this price is hot, but I don't think it's the right board for me. Slap me if I'm wrong, but the stock Filco TKL has no Fn-key, so I'd already have ALL modifiers available. I guess it's great if you're on other machines all the time, but I have one Linux box to toy around with all day, and I can do all this crazy layout remapping stuff in software. The way I see it, the Filco is already free from hardware Fn-bull****. There's no need to liberate it.
But rest assured, this beauty will make one geekhacker very happy, one who'll appreciate it more than I ever could.
All of this makes me wonder, is there a way to liberate a Poker, i.e. can you restore the right alt key on one of those?
I don't think so. I tried very, very hard to liberate a Race, which uses the same controller. And I have multiple Pokers right now that I would love to liberate or at least re-map a bit.
What, exactly, do you want to change on the Poker?
- Ron I samwisekoi
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The Poker II has a fully programmable Fn layer, so that is what I'm going with.
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Do you mean this abomination?
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=39271.0http://www.heavy-arm.com/product.php?id_product=459
All keys (except for Fn and Pn) are fully hardware programmable.
No thanks, lol.
What, exactly, do you want to change on the Poker?
Simple, I want to turn Fn back to alt.
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Just get a Poker, slash the FN trace, and wire it to the other Alt key.
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Or get a GH60 and program the keys how you like. You don't need any stinkin' Fn or Pn keys. :D
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Ahem, that's out. You should know this by now. :P
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Just get a Poker, slash the FN trace, and wire it to the other Alt key.
I could get a new Poker with black MX for 100 bucks...
Did you do this? Is it hard? I've never soldered a thing, you know.
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Just get a Poker, slash the FN trace, and wire it to the other Alt key.
If we knew the controller matrix pinout, you could wire it directly to the correct pins, assuming RALT is in the matrix somewhere...
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Just get a Poker, slash the FN trace, and wire it to the other Alt key.
If we knew the controller matrix pinout, you could wire it directly to the correct pins, assuming RALT is in the matrix somewhere...
The problem I had doing this on the Race was that the programmers allowed duplicates to exist in the matrix if it didn't interfere with the keys they were using. So RALT might exist in the matrix on a position that will also give you a PGDN.
Anyhow, this would be simple to check with a jumper and XEV.
For now, the matrix is a modification of the matrix shown on page 20 of the attached PDF.
[update]
Done. RALT is at the intersection between B+ and LALT- without any problems.
Here is the output from my Poker and a jumper:
LALT:
KeyPress event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x7200001,
root 0x15d, subw 0x0, time 962829505, (166,-10), root:(2528,558),
state 0x10, keycode 64 (keysym 0xfe03, ISO_Level3_Shift), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False
KeyRelease event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x7200001,
root 0x15d, subw 0x0, time 962829577, (166,-10), root:(2528,558),
state 0x90, keycode 64 (keysym 0xfe03, ISO_Level3_Shift), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False
Artificial RALT:
KeyPress event, serial 36, synthetic NO, window 0x7200001,
root 0x15d, subw 0x0, time 962909193, (167,-23), root:(2513,545),
state 0x10, keycode 108 (keysym 0xfe03, ISO_Level3_Shift), same_screen YES,
XKeysymToKeycode returns keycode: 64
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False
KeyRelease event, serial 37, synthetic NO, window 0x7200001,
root 0x15d, subw 0x0, time 962909512, (167,-23), root:(2513,545),
state 0x90, keycode 108 (keysym 0xfe03, ISO_Level3_Shift), same_screen YES,
XKeysymToKeycode returns keycode: 64
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False
That means that one cut and two jumpers will return RALT to its normal position on a Poker. However, you will also lose the function key altogether. So no F1-12, no arrow keys, etc.
[/update]
- Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
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Sounds great, thanks!
With jumper you mean cable and with intersection you mean solder point? Or is it even simpler, like just putting a blob of solder on two adjacent points?
Maybe I can do this.
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Sounds great, thanks!
With jumper you mean cable and with intersection you mean solder point? Or is it even simpler, like just putting a blob of solder on two adjacent points?
Maybe I can do this.
OK, you understand that you will lose all Function-layer operations, right? That means that every key that requires the FN key will disappear from your keyboard. This specifically includes the Escape key and the Delete key. I do not know how you will do Ctrl-Alt-Del afterwards, but if that is really, really ok with you, then here is how to do it.
THE FOLLOWING SHOULD WORK, BUT MIGHT DESTROY YOUR PCB!!!
Get someone to help if you are not 100% sure you can do this safely.
[attach=1]
Poker PCB showing mods to put RALT where FN normally is.
#1 Try this with a jumper first.
1a. Touch a wire between points A-1 and B-1.
1b. Verify that this registered on YOUR keyboard and YOUR PC as RALT.
(In Linux this is easy using the "xev" command. I don't know about Mac OS or Windows.)
Because you have not disabled anything, the keyboard ALSO should think you pressed FN.
#2 Add the jumper wires. Thin, insulated, solid core wire is best. I use 24-28 gauge wire.
2a. Carefully solder a wire between A-1 and A-2. Make sure you are soldering to the POSITIVE (+) END of the tiny diodes. Do NOT de-solder the diodes.
2b. Solder another wire between B-1 and B-2. This is easier; just don't de-solder the switches!
Repeat the test above EXCEPT now you can just press the key that used to be FN. It should now be RALT (and still FN.)
Ok, so far everything you've done can be undone, assuming you didn't melt any traces or otherwise damage the PCB.
THIS IS THE DANGEROUS STEP. IT WILL DAMAGE YOUR PCB.
#3 Cut the trace at C-1 with an X-Acto. This will sever the FN switch's normal connection.
3a. Cut C-1 WHERE THE BLUE LINE INDICATES. Do NOT cut the trace immediately above the blue line. Cut just ONE trace, and cut it just BELOW both via holes. No need to pull it out or dig a hole in the board. The signal just needs to be broken.
Test the new RALT key now. It should just be an Alt key, no FN anymore.
All good?
#4 Clean up and tie things down.
4a. Put a tiny dab of clear nail polish on the cut at C-1. This will prevent anything getting in there and restoring the contact.
4b. Use a few dabs of hot-melt glue to hold the two wires neatly to the PCB so they don't get pulled or come loose.
DONE
I hope that worked. I wouldn't have done it, but it is a straightforward mod.
- Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
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Thank you very much! I might attempt this if I find someone who can help me with the soldering.
OK, you understand that you will lose all Function-layer operations, right? That means that every key that requires the FN key will disappear from your keyboard. This specifically includes the Escape key and the Delete key. I do not know how you will do Ctrl-Alt-Del afterwards, but if that is really, really ok with you, then here is how to do it.[/b
No it's not ok, it's perfect.
I wouldn't have done it
You don't need a right Alt key?
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Thank you very much! I might attempt this if I find someone who can help me with the soldering.
OK, you understand that you will lose all Function-layer operations, right? That means that every key that requires the FN key will disappear from your keyboard. This specifically includes the Escape key and the Delete key. I do not know how you will do Ctrl-Alt-Del afterwards, but if that is really, really ok with you, then here is how to do it.
No it's not ok, it's perfect.
I wouldn't have done it
You don't need a right Alt key?
No, nor do I need WIN or MENU, since I use Linux. But I do need arrow keys, function keys, and escape. I knew my way around the Poker/Race matrix because of past attempts to move the FN key so I could re-map the right mods into arrow keys.
If I were King, the Poker bottom row would be:
CTRL - FN - ALT - SPACE - LEFT - RIGHT - DOWN - UP
But while it was possible to make RALT work for you, the arrow keys are badly programmed in the unchangable firmware.
Anyhow, this mod took way longer to document than it would to do, so if you find someone to help with the soldering, or even watch over you, this is a pretty easy mod.
Good luck!
- Ron | samwisekoi
(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/GH75.png)
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No, nor do I need WIN or MENU, since I use Linux. But I do need arrow keys, function keys, and escape.
Haha that's funny, because I don't use the arrow keys, Esc, or F-keys anymore since I switched to Linux.
I guess I can live without Super keys too, but Menu is my right Ctrl key, and I sure would miss that. Also, I find right Alt to be very handy for short-cutting on the terminal, I guess you just don't use it that much? Then again, I have to admit that the "thumb modifiers" are the easiest to press one-handed together with another key on the same side of the keyboard.
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This thread is straight insane.
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I agree. Things got out of hand quickly. Oh well.
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This thread is straight insane.
Mission accomplished!
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This thread is straight insane.
Mission accomplished!
Rofl!!
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I know exactly what you mean, you could go the custom route like me, look up the dox project all together is going to cost you around $200-300 worth of DIY parts and case
plus I have all the Fn keys where I want it
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/icbob/L1010651_zps143f44cc.jpg) (http://s6.photobucket.com/user/icbob/media/L1010651_zps143f44cc.jpg.html)
umm... Where can I get caps like those? I really like them. PBT?