geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: fateswarm on Tue, 28 May 2013, 14:58:27

Title: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: fateswarm on Tue, 28 May 2013, 14:58:27

I wanted to ask, what kind of household item can I use to clean a circuit? This TK is acting up and I see lots of dirt in it from assembly:

Photo I just took of a part:

(http://i.imgur.com/J2bgT9x.png)
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 28 May 2013, 15:03:55
This 'dirt' is very interesting as I had posted a few months ago when I tried out a CM Storm Trigger, it came with a 'dirt' substance covering the entire keyboard, cooler master said must have come from the warehouse.

I believe you could make use of some alcohol wipes, I believe they call them kim wipes?

something along the lines of 99% rubbing alcohol with qtips (be careful of leaving cotton pieces) would work just be really careful.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 28 May 2013, 15:05:08
Aye, you can use just about anything. I've used rubbing alcohol as well as water and soap. Don't soak it, and LET IT DRY! :)
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Tue, 28 May 2013, 15:06:08
Nice. Thank you guys.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: esoomenona on Tue, 28 May 2013, 15:08:45
How is it acting up? Generally, those traces are under a protective coating. I don't imagine the dust that you see could be causing too much trouble...
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: SmallFry on Tue, 28 May 2013, 15:11:15
The soldermask is actually not all that insulative.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Tue, 28 May 2013, 16:02:48
It's relatively clean now (93% alcohol with a cloth + some tossing pure alcohol on it + blowing air).

It didn't fix its dead left win key. Also I don't know yet if it fixed its issue of hanging (or the laptop USB subsystem actually hanging, I don't know) but I doubt it'll do anything about that. Yeah.. this keyboard hasn't been acting well but I kept it. More info here http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44001.0 Though sad thing is its hanging issues don't fix on 6KRO as I initially hoped.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: nubbinator on Tue, 28 May 2013, 19:30:44
I know the QFR had some issues with the left Alt key that were the result of bad soldering.  The same might be true with the TK.  If you desolder and resolder the switch, it may fix it.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Tue, 28 May 2013, 23:55:55
Quote from: nubbinator on Tue, 28 May 2013, 19:30:44
I know the QFR had some issues with the left Alt key that were the result of bad soldering.  The same might be true with the TK.  If you desolder and resolder the switch, it may fix it.
Yeah the soldering looks bulky compared to Filco in a review I saw on Youtube comparing the boards (which are apparently from the same manufacturer, Corsair).

I'm more interested about its recurring 'device not recognized' issue: It's the most bizarre thing ever and with all my gadgets experience I can't figure out the source. Only after some reboots or reconnects and never during operation (it may work perfectly for a whole day!) and never when wiggling the cable or moving or stretching physically the device, it makes the computer not recognize the device. It sometimes works if it's reconnected after 20 minutes while the OS had not rebooted and not if it's repeatedly reconnected in the same minute.

You can imagine it sounds like a hang of the device that somehow resets. Or some kind of partial blocking of the laptop (plenty of other USB devices work fine) that somehow resets (not another computer here to test).

But even then it's unfathomable how could that be the case and in that consistency. It seems purely an 'algorithmic' error and not a physical one, well at least on the surface.

I initially hoped it's a side effect of NKRO (or at least one when only NKRO is actually on) but that is not the case.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Wed, 29 May 2013, 00:08:49
BTW, doesn't that solder look like a short on the top left compared to the top middle (plus those two in the middle)? Though I know nothing of electronics.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: nubbinator on Wed, 29 May 2013, 00:49:17
Could be that the USB connector isn't properly soldered on the PCB.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:04:29
One of the problems identified:

(http://i.imgur.com/piB55yn.png)

As one can see this capacitor or whatever it is, completely lacks soldering on the right.

It is used for left Win key which is  why I was looking at the area.

It will fix the key if soldered but I lack any soldering tools where I live for now. I tested it with a tip of a drafting compass :) and it works.


By the way, it is Very likely at the moment that the 'hanging' issues I've been having with it are fixed with a powered hub, since the board apparently violates the USB standard with its tons of leds or whatnot but I reserve full judgement about it before testing it for  several days.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:31:32
My entry for Ghetto Solutions Awards 2013:

(http://i.imgur.com/Z86zwgm.jpg)

A ball of copper I got from an old phone charger and sticky tape for drafting (easily removable with little residue).

I promise to solder it properly when I get my soldering tools back. maybe.

Now the keyboard is working properly and fully. For now?
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:40:05
Quote from: fateswarm on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:31:32
My entry for Ghetto Solutions Awards 2013:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Z86zwgm.jpg)


A ball of copper I got from an old phone charger and sticky tape for drafting (easily removable with little residue).

I promise to solder it properly when I get my soldering tools back. maybe.

Now the keyboard is working properly and fully. For now?

OH god I almost fell out of my chair from laughter.

But you know what they say, if it's stupid and works, it's not stupid.

Also for you future reference, those are diodes, they're used to give you EPIC NKRO FOR DA GAEMS.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:46:03
Quote from: kmiller8 on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:40:05
Also for you future reference, those are diodes, they're used to give you EPIC NKRO FOR DA GAEMS.
Aah, I guess it's related to that matrix for non blocking NKRO I was reading the other day, 'going direction X' but not registering 'X' for other keys as well.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: gigibecali on Thu, 30 May 2013, 08:48:18
Quote from: fateswarm on Thu, 30 May 2013, 07:31:32
My entry for Ghetto Solutions Awards 2013:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/Z86zwgm.jpg)


A ball of copper I got from an old phone charger and sticky tape for drafting (easily removable with little residue).

I promise to solder it properly when I get my soldering tools back. maybe.

Now the keyboard is working properly and fully. For now?

oh... that made my day :)
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: Photoelectric on Thu, 30 May 2013, 11:47:08
Good work!! I approve of unusual approaches in difficult circumstances :)
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: RabRhee on Thu, 30 May 2013, 17:16:17
Great ghetto field repair. Reminds me of a guy I worked with who repaired practically everything with foil from cigarette packets.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly (basic stuff)
Post by: fateswarm on Fri, 31 May 2013, 08:01:52
Day three of the powered hub powering this keyboard and there's no problem yet. (Reference of the problem here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44001.0) and thread about its power issues here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44092.0), I'm consolidating the threads about it in the current thread).

That means this keyboard most likely behaves better, at least here or on laptops, with an external power source (by just using a hub, since its own doesn't have a power input). Some preliminary math had indicated that it may draw more than 2A in some cases, which violates the USB standard for non-chargers. Some laptops aren't even designed to give more than 500mA or 500mA x 2 or 3 devices max.

I still reserve full judgement for the power issue but I'm now relatively confident it at least improved significantly.

So yeah, to summarize,  :) if this keyboard is acting up make sure some soldering isn't needed and that it gets sufficient power.

edit: PS. I've updated the OP with those findings.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: fateswarm on Mon, 03 June 2013, 06:14:47
I got an official confirmation that this is indeed a fix:

"Dear Mr./Ms,

Yes on some laptops the USB do not give enough power to the keyboard because these keyboard need more power than a normal keyboard. We always recommend to use the keyboard on a desktop PC but when you use a powered hub and the problem is fixed then you can use it on your laptop.

When you have any other question please feel free to contact us.

Kind regards,

*********"

PS. nth day now and no hang yet. I can confirm the problem has disappeared or at least has been very highly alleviated. By the way, I had some thoughts that the alcohol-cleaning may have affected it, but I remember getting a hang after cleaning it.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: SpAmRaY on Mon, 03 June 2013, 06:36:18
Does it still give the problem using it with a laptop if you don't use the back-lighting?
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: fateswarm on Mon, 03 June 2013, 06:47:17
Quote from: ray4jc on Mon, 03 June 2013, 06:36:18
Does it still give the problem using it with a laptop if you don't use the back-lighting?
It did occur once or twice in a day without a powered hub and all the lights off (or with only 3 or 4 leds on).

That had made me suspect that the hang may be Voltage and not strictly Current related, i.e. the Laptop giving it bad juice, but in any case the Laptop being a suspect is unlikely when I have tried on it external disks, sound cards, tv tuners, mice, wireless sensors, etc. and none seems to hang (apart from overloading it with simultaneous connections and having an external disk shut down).

It also happens only when shutting down or turning off the power of the machine (or when the OS shuts off USB I guess) so it might be also related to surges or lack of proper current at those exact points.

I can't be certain.
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: nullstring on Sun, 22 September 2013, 14:49:24
I know this is an older thread, but is there anyway you could provide more general pictures including the entire PCB and the controller board?
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: clickclack123 on Tue, 14 January 2014, 03:46:17
Quote from: nullstring on Sun, 22 September 2013, 14:49:24
I know this is an older thread, but is there anyway you could provide more general pictures including the entire PCB and the controller board?

/necro thread

I took photos in my thread here (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=53394.msg1192153#msg1192153).
Title: Re: Quick Fire TK disassembly and investigation (basic stuff and basic issues)
Post by: clickclack123 on Tue, 14 January 2014, 04:09:56
Quote from: fateswarm on Tue, 28 May 2013, 14:58:27
Photo I just took of a part:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/J2bgT9x.png)


Haha that's actually a fingerprint! Find that person, CSI!