You'll have to wait a week or two to see if TB trickles down to ITX :pBut there are Intel motherboards with Thunderbolt, just not mITX motherboards.
Edit - I say this because I remember reading motherboard companies were having trouble getting Intel certification for TB headers.
But there are Intel motherboards with Thunderbolt, just not mITX motherboards.
Okay, gotcha.But there are Intel motherboards with Thunderbolt, just not mITX motherboards.
Yes I know, but this was in regards to where it would be located on the back of mitx boards. Intel can be weird about this stuff. I'll find what I'm talking about later and edit this post with the "speculation" bit I'm referring to.
Thunderbolt will be like Firewire.. VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.
Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..
Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives, WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...
Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers... Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.
The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..
That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.
the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...
It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..
I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..
Pros:
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable
Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore
My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu
Thunderbolt will be like Firewire.. VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.
Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..
Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives, WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...
Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers... Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.
The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..
That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.
the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...
It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..
I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..
Pros:
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable
Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore
My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu
i agree with TP on this.
im concerned with a 470 being in that tiny ass case. they run pretty hot and with what little airflow you're going to have, that poor cpu might have an issue unless you go with an AIO liquid. The draw back to a AIO liquid is, you're partially blocking the 1 exhaust fan you have in the case. once the gpu ramps up, the temps are going to just keep climbing.
Thunderbolt will be like Firewire.. VERY limited pickup.. This really shouldn't be in your decision.
Display port is better for displays.. and USB is better for ex-drives..
Think about it this way, say you have thunderbolt drives, WHO ELSE has thunderbolt,, NO BODY.... why bother limiting your search over such a limiting feature...
Also, if you're dead set on Mini-itx... Consider getting those AIO water coolers... Even if the air cooler you plan to use "FITS" it doesn't have enough clearance inside the bit-fenix to effectively cool, because the close space causes tremendous back pressure// resistance on the fans.
The water coolers give you more "clearance" for the fans to work properly..
That said.. watercooling or not, this thing will be MUCH louder than a full tower with more fans and more room.
the ONLY advantage of mini-itx is that it looks cute, and you can 'sort-of" carry it around...
It still sucks carrying it around despite the size, cuz the damn thing is still heavy, and it's summer, and I hate the outside, because outside no has air-conditioning..
I am a bit biased AGAINST the mitx given my previous experience with it, I went all the way, water cooled both the gfx and cpu.. Only to come up disappointed with the result..
Pros:
Looks Cute
Slightly more portable
Cons:
Runs hot
Runs Loud
No space for Drives
Traditional Harddrives also run a bit warmer in small spaces
Dead zones galore
My previous mitx build was 2600k 4.8ghz/ asus z77 mitx/ nv 670/ zalman lq on the gfx/ h100 on the cpu
i agree with TP on this.
im concerned with a 470 being in that tiny ass case. they run pretty hot and with what little airflow you're going to have, that poor cpu might have an issue unless you go with an AIO liquid. The draw back to a AIO liquid is, you're partially blocking the 1 exhaust fan you have in the case. once the gpu ramps up, the temps are going to just keep climbing.
Bitfenix prodigy is not a tiny case lol. Also I had a 470 in my sg05, which is tiny and I never had a problem with temps. When the gpu ramps up, positive pressure does It's thing, but again the case OP mentioned is not tiny.
It'll Run yea... but about 5-10 C HIGHER than the same setup in a BIGGER roomier case...
And that just won't be good for overclocking..
And if you don't overclock, then F.... You.. why even build your own computer. :))
I run inside a Lian Li PC-Q11 a GTX670 + i5 2500K without any problem with temperatures. They're higher than usual but nothing to worry about.That's a pretty sexy case. I saw this one too: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009LHF4FO which looked nice. But I already have the BitFenix Prodigy. And it's certainly not tiny, maybe just a bit smaller than a mid tower.
Big cases are a waste of space.
I run inside a Lian Li PC-Q11 a GTX670 + i5 2500K without any problem with temperatures. They're higher than usual but nothing to worry about.That's a pretty sexy case. I saw this one too: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009LHF4FO which looked nice. But I already have the BitFenix Prodigy. And it's certainly not tiny, maybe just a bit smaller than a mid tower.
Big cases are a waste of space.
As for the Thunderbolt port - you're right, maybe not worth waiting for. I just have a beautiful Thunderbolt Display that won't be able to be used if I don't have Thunderbolt.
I ended up making a prodigy build for LAN goodness. It werks and is my daily driver. GL with your build. Give us pictures!
Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages ;)
Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages ;)
I've built several ITX systems, but my portable rendering system is in a Sugo 5, and it is great. Good air flow, room for an SSD and a big spinning storage drive, and small enough to carry easily. Mine runs an OC i5, but could have handled an i7. I don't think I'd go bigger than a 660, although there is room and intake right there.
The prodigy is a cute case, but is is big for an ITX case. I think the Sugo is a better value, and if you can do something as big as the Prodigy, then you can also do an mATX mini-tower and have LOTS more choice for every component.
Other than the case, good build list. Excellent choices on PSU and SSD. Solid choice on RAM as well.
About all of the other input, I agree about dropping Thunderbolt. It is going to push you into a low-volume, expensive mobo. Aren't there adapters so you can still use that beautiful display?
Just my $.02,
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
Edit - Also worth noting, when I ran the 470 in my SG05, both cpu/gpu were overclocked as well as undervolted below stock voltages ;)
I've built several ITX systems, but my portable rendering system is in a Sugo 5, and it is great. Good air flow, room for an SSD and a big spinning storage drive, and small enough to carry easily. Mine runs an OC i5, but could have handled an i7. I don't think I'd go bigger than a 660, although there is room and intake right there.
The prodigy is a cute case, but is is big for an ITX case. I think the Sugo is a better value, and if you can do something as big as the Prodigy, then you can also do an mATX mini-tower and have LOTS more choice for every component.
Other than the case, good build list. Excellent choices on PSU and SSD. Solid choice on RAM as well.
About all of the other input, I agree about dropping Thunderbolt. It is going to push you into a low-volume, expensive mobo. Aren't there adapters so you can still use that beautiful display?
Just my $.02,
- Ron | samwisekoiShow Image(http://www.samwisekoi.com/pixelart/M.png)
Okay, a few points in light of this thread:
1) I am thinking about selling the BitFenix Prodigy case in favor of a FT03-MINI: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163197
2) Unfortunately, that renders my PSU useless and I'll have to return it to Newegg in favor of this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256084
3) There aren't any adapters that can make a Thunderbolt Display work without a Thunderbolt port to date. And it doesn't look like there will be a good option for a mATX or mITX motherboard with Thunderbolt in the near future.
4) I guess I will just wait for the next-gen Intel line to come out which I hear is just a couple weeks away.
Yeah I guess I will just stick with the BitFenix. I don't mind the size, I bought it because it was a great compromise between a gaming tower and a mITX machine. So I guess all that is left is just to wait for Haswell...
What is a "day 1 de-lid"?Yeah I guess I will just stick with the BitFenix. I don't mind the size, I bought it because it was a great compromise between a gaming tower and a mITX machine. So I guess all that is left is just to wait for Haswell...
Haswell is going to -need day 1 de-lid if you want to get everything from it... I recommend using a 240mm rad and a 140mm rad for the gfx card.
I'm really hoping Haswell can do 5GHZ at < 1.4v I can swallow 1.37-1.39v, I've slowly-killed a 2500k @ 1.45v :D, so i know the people saying 1.45 is too much isn't making **** up.. Good thing for intel insurance, I'm still running the chip @5ghz.. It just needs more voltage now.
He delidded his CPU on the first day that he got the CPU. Delidding it removes the metal (I forget the name currently) heat spreader. This allows the CPU to be run faster, though it can come with more consequences, just like any overclocking.Yeah...I am not taking apart of the CPU...I would assume that would void the warranty.
Asus Z87i-DeluxeWhat is an ROG board?
is going to be the one to get..
With the 4770k and 4670k, these are NOT premium cpus you're buying, an ROG board is a complete waste of money, because it won't take your OC higher.
And since Many people are too pu$$y to delid anyway, they'll be thermal-bound within 4.2 - 4.5 ghz where a premium board will mean even LESS, because EVERY board even the low quality asrock ones will accomplish such trivial OC..
I say get the asus, because their bios is really easy to work with, and their forum is better supported than the other brands.
Also, with the exception of the 2 asus boards, all of the other boards have inferior pwm circuits.. THat's probably OK for haswell especially if one's only going to reach a puny 4.5ghz, but these boards generate more heat "Per" delivery loop, so wear and tear will be an issue.. since many people stick these crappy boards into tiny cases, it'll be even more of a problem down the road.
I don't get it, how does it communicate with the CPU on rendering the graphics if it's not directly plugged into the Motherboard? This blows my mind.
I don't get it, how does it communicate with the CPU on rendering the graphics if it's not directly plugged into the Motherboard? This blows my mind.
People already do this, but it's limited to a 4x PCIE and you need an express card slot. It's called an external GPU. You take laptop or desktop with Thunderbolt, plug the TB cable from SilverStone case into laptop's TB, then hook up the GPU to your external monitor. This will use the CPU of your computer and the card you have in the enclosure, though I'm not sure how or if this works with laptops that have a dedicate GPU or Nvidia Optimus. Anyway, I'm really looking forward to this thing and would expect it to be under $150 for both PSU and enclosure.
That's not great if its limited to only 4x!
It's just Better to get a low power small laptop, and a powerful desktop than 2 of something that doesn't quite do well as either.
That's not great if its limited to only 4x!
No, that's the old rigged way people were doing it. They were basically making home made versions of what SS will be offering soon, that coupled with expresscard slot in a laptop. This one will be PCIe 3.0 x16
It's just Better to get a low power small laptop, and a powerful desktop than 2 of something that doesn't quite do well as either.
Agreed, I argue with customers all the time about this.
Laptops are easier to steal, easier to break, slower, and when they fail or need upgrading, it's far more expensive. Sony wants $600 for the mainboard in my laptop (parts only!). For $600, I can build an entire desktop.
Ugh. I hate the whole mobile shift whether it is notebooks or tablets or whatever. I mean, I understand people like sales reps and stuff that need something for the job, but why the **** anyone wants one for their only computer is beyond my understanding as they suck ass. Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it. **** that. I like keyboards and mice not touchscreens mother****ers. I;ve been drinking, had like 4 .5 liters so sue me.
Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.
The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.
Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.
what exactly is new about windows 8 worth using?The underlying OS is actually quite good, file copy/transfers are smoother, faster and better presented.
what exactly is new about windows 8 worth using?The underlying OS is actually quite good, file copy/transfers are smoother, faster and better presented.
It's just the eye candy and interface that really stinks.
Woohoo! Go Ivan!6 years ago I tried to install my first after-market CPU cooler. It didn't specify in the instructions that I should put washers in-between the backplate (the metal thing that goes on the back side of the motherboard that the cooler screws into from the front) and the motherboard. The motherboard literally fried. Smoke everywhere. Luckily, when I returned it to Fry's, they didn't notice the huge charred part on the back (where the backplate went) and returned it for being DOA.
The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.
Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.
I just wish I had more time for gaming :(Not only is their performance so far behind, stupid OS makers decide to force the mobile way of doing things on me so I double hate it.on Windows 8, install Classic Start, makes it into a decent OS again, it's not Windows 7, but it's close.The only thing that's stopping me from building my own new PC is being afraid of pitting on the CPU cooler. I'm afraid I won't install it right.Modern systems will shut down before overheating and the coolers are easier than then used to be. It's not like the uncapped AMD days where if you installed it wrong, you cracked the processor.
Last time I built a computer was about 10 years ago. I'm out of the loop with some of the new lingo.
I want to get back into PC gaming. Especially after seeing what Sony and Microsoft have coming down the pipe.
LOL, so ok new task manager, and new file copy transfer screen.. that's totally worth the 5 hours it took me to set it up and install all my programs, a few of which stopped working. :DI didn't say it was worth switching to. LOL
As for the laptop vs desktop conversation, those people complaining about using a laptop for work have clearly never tried the Macbook Pro & Thunderbolt Display setup. It basically makes my laptop feel like a desktop. One plug (I love you, Thunderbolt) and my beautiful 27" display, keyboard and mouse automatically are powered up. The laptop is ludicrously fast enough to handle any task I throw at it and has almost as high of a resolution (Retina!) as my 27" Display. Thank god for SSD's. And I can take it on the go when I need, of course.
The tech industry is 90% macs? What tech industry is that?Silicon Valley.
I would love to hear your reasons why. Clearly you're not in the tech industry, it's 90% Macs.Did you write that with a straight face?
I should have been more specific. I don't mean the average business. I mean hardcore tech. Silicon Valley, LA tech scene, Austin, New York, Boulder, etc. Macs dominate those. I have zero compatibility problems in my industry. So to say that they are a poor work machine for tech is just ignorant.I would love to hear your reasons why. Clearly you're not in the tech industry, it's 90% Macs.Did you write that with a straight face?
Silicone Valley may be home of the tech industry, but it's not the average business and just because a bunch of geeks, hipsters and college kids use Macs, that means absolutely nothing to the rest of the business world.
As for why...
If you work in I.T. you should know why, lack of compatibility being the primary reason. Going into an office and not knowing if your laptop can even print or even access required websites, is not a good feeling. There is also costs of repairs, upgrades, software, support... Silicone Valley is not small town America, you can't simply throw a rock and hit a Mac "specialist". In fact, in many small towns you would be lucky to even find a Mac at all.
And I do work in the tech industry, I have my own business in I.T. servicing dozens of non-tech businesses.
So 5% of the tech industry then?I don't think you can find the exact numbers out there but you'd be hard pressed to find a Windows computer at most of biggest tech companies in the world. I think that says something about Macs being good work computers. That said, I have nothing against Windows, and prefer it for my gaming PC. But I love my 13" Retina Macbook Pro and Thunderbolt Display combo and I'm incredibly productive on it.
So 5% of the tech industry then?... you'd be hard pressed to find a Windows computer at most of biggest tech companies in the world. ...
I should have been more specific. I don't mean the average business. I mean hardcore tech. Silicon Valley, LA tech scene, Austin, New York, Boulder, etc. Macs dominate those. I have zero compatibility problems in my industry. So to say that they are a poor work machine for tech is just ignorant.Sorry, but I'm still not buying it.
I'm all for preference. I use Windows on my desktop, I even have Windows 7 on my Mac via Bootcamp. It's still the best Windows laptop I've ever had. But to say it's bad for a work computer is just senseless.
Like I said in my above post, you are right and I should have been more specific, I am referring to Silicon Valley, LA tech scene, Austin, New York, Boulder, etc. Macs dominate those. And my picture is from Facebook. And the guys making decisions there use Macs. Facebook is a big company, yes, but I know it's not the biggest. Google is one of the biggest, however, and it's dominated by Mac developers as well. Regardless, I am admitting you are right when it comes to I.T. overall and I was thinking small. My Mac laptop is the best choice for my particular job, and I would argue that 90% of people with my job title in my industry use Macs. So saying it's a bad work computer is still ignorant. Maybe bad for you, but it's the best choice for plenty.I should have been more specific. I don't mean the average business. I mean hardcore tech. Silicon Valley, LA tech scene, Austin, New York, Boulder, etc. Macs dominate those. I have zero compatibility problems in my industry. So to say that they are a poor work machine for tech is just ignorant.Sorry, but I'm still not buying it.
I'm all for preference. I use Windows on my desktop, I even have Windows 7 on my Mac via Bootcamp. It's still the best Windows laptop I've ever had. But to say it's bad for a work computer is just senseless.
Considering how many companies in the tech industry make PC's and PC parts, while doing very little to support Mac, it doesn't support what you are saying. You are looking at the low level geeks, you aren't looking at the business as a whole. IF it was that full of Macs, Mac compatibility wouldn't be an issue. Every wifi adapter and printer would have a Mac driver, every website would support Safari and yet they don't. Printers lack drivers, websites STILL only support I.E... If Macs had truly invaded I.T. in massive numbers, then this wouldn't be a problem and more importantly Macs would have trickled down into average geeks and average businesses and they simply haven't.
Yes, the latest generation of techs are pushing for change, but it's a long way from taking over. They may own Macs themselves, but they aren't dictating what the company itself uses and what they support. You are looking at what actually amounts to a very small sector of the I.T. industry and making broad generalizations from it. Look at the picture you posted, those are not the guys making purchasing decisions in your company.
You say it's not bad for work, but walk into a common office and try using their networked printers, try scanning a document. You have about a 50/50 chance at best. I even had to replace a few routers because of the whole Iphone 4 & 4s wifi disaster that IOS 5 or 6 brought with it.
So 5% of the tech industry then?I don't think you can find the exact numbers out there but you'd be hard pressed to find a Windows computer at most of biggest tech companies in the world. I think that says something about Macs being good work computers. That said, I have nothing against Windows, and prefer it for my gaming PC. But I love my 13" Retina Macbook Pro and Thunderbolt Display combo and I'm incredibly productive on it.
Now, the question at hand:
Preferrably, I'd like a mITX motherboard with Thunderbolt (better Hackintosh capabilities, I have a Thunderbolt Display). They don't exist yet, which is one reason I've held off on finishing the build and just buying parts as I see great deals. Should I wait for the next generation of Intel processors to come out? Will there even be affordable mITX motherboards at launch? Will they even have Thunderbolt?
MUST. HAVE.Now, the question at hand:
Preferrably, I'd like a mITX motherboard with Thunderbolt (better Hackintosh capabilities, I have a Thunderbolt Display). They don't exist yet, which is one reason I've held off on finishing the build and just buying parts as I see great deals. Should I wait for the next generation of Intel processors to come out? Will there even be affordable mITX motherboards at launch? Will they even have Thunderbolt?
I'm not recommending this, nor do I know if it will actually go live, but here you go StrykerX :pShow Image(http://www.hardware.fr/medias/photos_news/00/41/IMG0041657_1.jpg)
Sorry to bump again, but I have a new development:
I'm dropping the BitFenix Prodigy from my rig. Just heard a lot against it, decided it's more important to have a quiet and cable managed computer than a small one (even though the Prodigy is the largest mITX case around). I am going with the Fractal Design R4, which I got on sale today for $80.
So my current build is this:
PCPartPicker part list (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/168cU) / Price breakdown by merchant (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/168cU/by_merchant/) / Benchmarks (http://pcpartpicker.com/p/168cU/benchmarks/)
CPU: Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i74770k) (Purchased For $279.99)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cml16gx3m2a1600c10r) (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/samsung-internal-hard-drive-mz7pd256bw) (Purchased For $187.99)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/pny-video-card-vcggtx670xpb) (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/fractal-design-case-fdcadefr4bl) (Purchased For $79.99)
Power Supply: Silverstone Strider Plus 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply (http://pcpartpicker.com/part/silverstone-power-supply-st50fp) (Purchased For $74.99)
Total: $622.96
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-13 19:29 EDT-0400)
All I'm missing now is a motherboard, and I'm holding out for a Z87 with Thunderbolt. Thanks to sales, already having memory, OS, and the video card upgrade (courtesy of PNY RMA), the cost is pretty freaking low. I do have to sell my Prodigy, of course.