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geekhack Community => Ergonomics => Topic started by: gmenzel on Thu, 30 May 2013, 15:49:49
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Hi all.
I'm looking for a programmable ergonomic keyboard. I'm currently trying out a Truly Ergonomic, which is falling short of my needs. I'd love to try out a Kinesis Advantage, but I've read that they won't work with USB 3.0 ports under Windows 7, which is exactly the configuration of my main work computer. Has anyone had any experience dealing with this issue? Is this still true? Is there a workaround?
Thanks!
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Here's what Kinesis tech-support said:
It is highly likely that the Intel USB controller you have is the one that won’t support our Advantage keyboard. It is a problem with the Win7 drivers because the Intel USB chipsets and keyboard work together with Window 8, Linux, and Mac OS X. We’ve tried to work with Intel to get them to fix it but have not had success getting them to do so. Normally a powered hub should be able to accept the Advantage keyboard, even though it has its own hub, but in spite of testing many powered hubs, we haven’t found one that will mask and solve this problem.
If you had an existing keyboard and a new computer that wasn’t compatible, we would suggest converting your keyboard to PS/2 (we could sell you a cable) and then use a PS/2 to USB adapter. This is a clunky solution and you would lose the USB port on the back of the keyboard, so we would never suggest doing this with a new keyboard.
We are working on a new electronic design that will solve this problem, but we don’t know when it will be available (but hopefully this year). Anyway, if you would need to use your new Advantage keyboard on a computer that only has USB 3.0 and Win7, I suggest waiting for the new version or considering an upgrade to Win8.1 when it comes out (assuming Microsoft does a decent job fixing the disaster they created for keyboard/mouse users with Win 8.0).
Looks like I'll be waiting for the new version of the keyboard...
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Are you certain that all your laptop's ports are USB3? I've had some similar problems with those ports on mine, but simply swapping over to the older ports cleared them up. Or, if your laptop has any expansion ports, you could drop a USB2 controller in one.
Alternately, you can switch to Linux as your base OS and run your Win7 stuff in a VM -- or really anything besides downgrading to Win8. :))
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So far we've only seen compatibility issues specifically with Intel USB 3.0 ports on Windows 7. Other USB 3.0 chipset manufacturers seem to work perfectly fine with our keyboards.
A lot of laptops have at least one USB 2.0 port available, so I'd check that as well.
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It's an ASUS N56VJ, which, according to the spec sheet (https://www.asus.com/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/N56VJ/#specifications (https://www.asus.com/Notebooks_Ultrabooks/N56VJ/#specifications)) has four USB 3 ports (which is all the USB ports on the machine), and the device manager lists them as Intel controllers.
Sadly I'm stuck in Windows for work, and some of the stuff I do on this machine is fairly CPU intensive, so running in a Linux VM isn't really an option. And running Windows 8 isn't an option either, though for esthetic rather than technical reasons. I actually bought an OEM copy of Windows 7 to replace the version of Windows 8 that came installed on the machine.
Ah well, time to start waiting...
Thanks!
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There is a lot of space inside your Advantage, perhaps mounting a hub internally may mask the Advantage and allow it to work?
First try without opening the case though, as I'm not 100% sure that it will work.
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There is a lot of space inside your Advantage, perhaps mounting a hub internally may mask the Advantage and allow it to work?
First try without opening the case though, as I'm not 100% sure that it will work.
From what I read it seemed that Kinesis has yet to find a powered hub which successfully masks the Advantage from Windows. :( One thing I thought might work would be a USB3 to USB2 adapter, but I've seen nothing to indicate that this has been successful, just nothing I've seen be stated as unsuccessful.
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So far we've only seen compatibility issues specifically with Intel USB 3.0 ports on Windows 7. Other USB 3.0 chipset manufacturers seem to work perfectly fine with our keyboards.
Are these issues something you can address via a firmware update or something? What is the long term solution ?
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So far we've only seen compatibility issues specifically with Intel USB 3.0 ports on Windows 7. Other USB 3.0 chipset manufacturers seem to work perfectly fine with our keyboards.
Are these issues something you can address via a firmware update or something? What is the long term solution ?
There isn't anything we can do on our end with the current firmware, but we're hoping Intel releases a driver fix/update on their end (we sent them a couple of our keyboards). It's clearly some kind of driver issue since our keyboard works through the same Intel USB 3.0 ports with other operating systems such as Linux, Mac's and even Windows 8.
There are possible work-arounds, such as converting the keyboard to PS/2 then using an active PS/2 to USB adapter.
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I know this is an old topic, but
USB 3.0 issues
Advantage keyboard’s currently do not work on most Windows 7 computers which have USB 3.0 ports, even if they also have USB 2.0. This problem does not exist in other operating systems, including Windows 8, Mac & Linux.
Possible work-around: If your Windows 7 computer only has USB 3.0 ports available, enter the BIOS of your computer during bootup. Look for “USB Configuration” section in which there may be a checkbox or option for “Enable USB 3.0 Controller”. Uncheck the box or disable USB 3.0, reboot,and test keyboard. If that is not there, or you don’t want to do disable 3.0, try “enable USB debug.” Another possible option is to disable the “Intel xHCI Mode”. If the BIOS on your computer does not list this as an option or you are unable to fix the problem, contact Kinesis Technical Support about a cable conversion kit (no charge within 60 days of purchase, though international shipping charges may apply, otherwise $25 plus shipping for keyboards still under warranty). Email: techsupport@kinesis.com or call 800-454-6374 (option 2) 8am – 4:30pm, M-F.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/technical-support/troubleshoooting-advantage/
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The new Kinesis Advantage 2 that came out this month (August 2016) is fully compatible with USB 3.0 ports on windows (and other OSs). It also replaces the rubber function keys with mechanical ones of the same size.
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So, in theory, a person could upgrade to Windows 10 (Or modern Linux equivalent) and the problem would be resolved?
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Yes, the old Advantage had issues with USB 3.0 on Windows 7 in particular, so upgrading to Windows 10 should probably solve it, but I haven't tried. I use Linux anyway. But if you have Windows 7 and are happy with it I would say leave your OS alone and upgrade to the Advantage 2 instead :-)
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So, in theory, a person could upgrade to Windows 10 (Or modern Linux equivalent) and the problem would be resolved?
That right. Or you can also get a "cable kit" from Kinesis shipped to you. It's essentially a main PS/2 cable and a PS2-USB adaptor. When you install the main PS/2 cable directly to the main circuit board, it will bypass the USB daughterboard/USB hub on the bottom case of the keyboard, which is the component that the Windows 7 driver has an issue with. From there use the USB adaptor to connect to any USB port on the computer and it will work just fine (besides the Hub being disabled).
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Hmmm, lots of options to choose from. I definitely enjoy options