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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: Schattendolch on Fri, 31 May 2013, 23:27:49
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cherry mx doesn't really have a sweet spot for me, i'm never quite satisfied typing on a board.
buckling spring offers the greatest tactility, while topre is really smooth.
does anyone feel like this as well?
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there is no doubt buckling spring feels best, but that don't mean buckling springs should last longer aka take more beating...
As an idea if you like the feeling and sound of the buckling spring, maeby you should try blue switches with 80g springs from Sherry
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honestly i like cherry mx blues with o-rings and a plate more than buckling springs. it takes all of that to feel better than buck (which i used for years and years) though. also i have an aluminum case. that helps a lot. it makes it feel more sturdy. that was a big appeal for me when i first got my model m. i realized i wanted my boards to be heavy. so i only use heavy boards.
both have their qualities, and i am certainly a man of phases. with that said i am loving cherry these days.
also with cherry mx i can get better caps. nothing against my model m caps, they are nice and all but different profiles can really change a board. POM DCS is the **** right now. so fast.
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cherry mx doesn't really have a sweet spot for me, i'm never quite satisfied typing on a board.
buckling spring offers the greatest tactility, while topre is really smooth.
does anyone feel like this as well?
This is exactly how I feel too.
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Agreed.
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Agreed.
Your cat doesn't, though ;)
I have not tried Topre (and cannot remember whether I have tried buckling spring, but probably in the distant past I did), and cannot comment further at this time.
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I honestly feel the keyboard community should be more picky about all kinds of switches, though the market in general is niche - because the gaming kids find easily that mice should be good but rarely that keyboards should have quality (Logitech will have tons of mice and 1-2 good keyboards) - so it's understandable.
For example Cherry switches are high quality technologically for the mere fact they are discrete and not a bulk of rubber encompassing the whole thing, but are they individually the best they could be? I personally suspect we could do with more metal in them for less unwanted friction, or other choices of materials.
edit: Let alone micro switches found in mice seem like they could be included in a switch at least as part of the mechanism, even if the cost would be high. And I'm talking about ranges of products not just 'one guy did it once'.
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All I can say is that since I got my fc660c, no cherry switched board has been plugged in at work or home.
Its heartbreaking :-X
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I have 3 mx boards that i regret buying, but i should be able to sell them off with minimal loss. Basically, as long as I have a 45 and 55g topre, a model m, and a model f, i should be fine for life.
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What do you use for gaming then
Buckling Spring may be more tactile..but it is really just a throwback feel...it doesn't work any better, it is loud and options are limited. A lot of people seem to think that they're supposed to like buckling spring and that somehow it is ideal...but there are plenty, including myself who grew up with them, that doesn't feel that way...
I love Topre but they're not great for gaming...you don't see any hardcore gamers use them...it could be the cost..but I don't think that is what it is..it just isn't that great..
What about linear switches? What about the variety of keycaps and options available on Cherry? I don't think they're the best for typing but they're still very good..and very good for gaming..and they're currently the easiest to customize...
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I think you've mixed up at least two different things.
quality: Maybe there are more non-clicky blues or greens, but good luck repairing a Topre switch. I guess it doesn't really matter at the end of the day, all should work much better than some cheap rubber domes or Asian knockoffs. Only Cherry MX are more common (thus usable in DIY designs), modular and there are more keycap options for it. Therefore, I prefer Cherry MX.
feel: Sure, I'd get a lighter buckling spring over MX Blue any day, the same about Topre and MX Brown, but e.g. linear MX switches (especially with custom springs or lube) are so specific that I just can't compare them to anything else. I think they're all different, and I can't even say that I prefer tactile xor linear switches.
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low quality?
You're misusing the term quality..
what you have is a preference.. You like the "feel" of buckling spring
QUALITY of MX is only lower if it broke before Buckling spring..
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I have all kinds of cherry switches and more boards than I want to admit to. I'm about to go ahead and say it... The only cherry that I feel is ok has been the ergo Clears and that is not a "stock" switch that Cherry makes.
Certain Alps are great and much better feeling to me than any cherry switch.
I like BS keyboards much more than any Alps or Cherry. I could not bond with the Topre that I had...go figure! :(
I DO want to try one of the Model M keyboards that was not BS but actually Rubber Dome. I will have to search for the model on here again but I did a while back and looked one up on eBay and it was a Buy it now for ~ $50.00 and $20.00 for shipping.
When I started out in college all of our workstations were either Model M BS keyboards or a clone. The noise was not that big of an issue really because we were all either used to everyone else using a BS or a Typewriter! LOL :)
J.
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Cherry really is a compromise.
Linear complicated alps are much smoother than cherry reds or blacks. You have to lube cherry reds and blacks to get the same smoothness you get from stock linear green or yellow alps.
BS and blue alps are a better, smoother experience for clicky switches than blue or green cherry mx.
Topre 55g is more tactile than any cherry tactile switch. Orange alps are awesome tactile switches too. Ergo clears aren't in the same league.
All my opinion (<--I put that there for tp4tissue).
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Why do you think Cherry succeeded in lasting longer than Alps or clones?
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Cherry really is a compromise.
Linear complicated alps are much smoother than cherry reds or blacks. You have to lube cherry reds and blacks to get the same smoothness you get from stock linear green or yellow alps.
BS and blue alps are a better, smoother experience for clicky switches than blue or green cherry mx.
Topre 55g is more tactile than any cherry tactile switch. Orange alps are awesome tactile switches too. Ergo clears aren't in the same league.
All my opinion (<--I put that there for tp4tissue).
:D
TP4-approved
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Why do you think Cherry succeeded in lasting longer than Alps or clones?
I have no idea....competitive pricing, product availability, ease of integrating into an existing manufacturing line, customer preference, crappy financial/production management on ALPs makers' part....I can only speculate.
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I haven't tried topre yet, but have tried some alps and bs. I don't like how keys wiggle around when not pressed. If topre is more solid feeling, then I might have to get one.
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Linear complicated alps are much smoother than cherry reds or blacks. You have to lube cherry reds and blacks to get the same smoothness you get from stock linear green or yellow alps.
I dunno. I have used some boards with pretty raspy complicated Alps switches, but not the specific switches that you mention.
Alps has more friction than Cherry MX on off-centre key presses, and that is something that bugs me about them.
When it comes to the perfect linear case, Cherry MX has most friction before actuation and Alps has most friction after actuation. That is not just how they feel to me, that has also been reflected in the force-displacement charts that I have seen. Vintage Alps switches generally have lot of noise in their graphs below the actuation point.
I think that the smoothness of MX and Alps is affected by dust. BS and most rubber domes are less sensitive because they are simpler mechanisms that don't require that much precision to function. There are lots of RD boards that bind awfully on off-centre key presses, though. (MS "Natural" keyboards are prime examples of that, with enormous Alt and Ctrl keys that have to pressed dead centre to work)
Topre's precision engineering and choice of materials is what makes them the smoothest and the most solid-feeling.
In any case, I prefer Cherry MX blue and clear switches because of their force-displacement curves, with mid-point tactile / actuation point. If there were switches with either's curve and with more dip after actuation (like BS) and them being smoother, then that would be awesome. I have been thinking a lot on how I would design my own switch... and I think I might just use a rubber dome to provide tactile feedback to obviate the need for a frictiony metal/leaf slider combo.