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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: margo baggins on Thu, 06 June 2013, 03:08:45

Title: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 06 June 2013, 03:08:45
Hello,

Is this switch heavier than a green switch or lighter?

thanks :)
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: noisyturtle on Thu, 06 June 2013, 03:13:52
Greens are fairly heavy at 80cN. A blue with a clear spring would be a slightly heavier blue, but quite a bit lighter than a green.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 06 June 2013, 03:24:58
Thanks for your response

Is a black spring heavier than a clear spring?

Sorry for my ignorance - I tried googling these things but sometimes get contradicting info!
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: thefunkyprimer on Thu, 06 June 2013, 04:12:41
Here's a list of switches and their corresponding spring rates:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: Larken on Thu, 06 June 2013, 04:42:44
clear springs are made notably different from the other heavier springs. Its shorter in height and there are fewer active coils.

you'd get a lighter than green actuation force, and after the 2mm actuation point, there would be a very sharp increase in resistance nearing bottom out.

no experience with green or black springs to compare against, but from what I've seen, they're more consistent throughout.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: kmiller8 on Thu, 06 June 2013, 04:48:59
Here's a list of switches and their corresponding spring rates:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX

no.

those are activation forces, not spring.

http://imgur.com/a/RJqM4 <- DA SPRINGS!!!!
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: thefunkyprimer on Thu, 06 June 2013, 05:00:22
Here's a list of switches and their corresponding spring rates:

http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX

no.

those are activation forces, not spring.

http://imgur.com/a/RJqM4 <- DA SPRINGS!!!!


Ah, thanks for the info! So does the activation force take into consideration both the metal contact switch and the spring, or a specific one on it's own?
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: margo baggins on Thu, 06 June 2013, 05:06:50
I see, thanks for the info guys.

i am yet to actually type on the blue's with clear springs, i changed all the springs and soldered up an ergo clears board and put caps on it, waiting for some new caps to put on the board with blue's and clear springs I have only done aqua key test to check all the switches work still.

I think they will arrive tomorrow so will take it for a typing spin then.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 06 June 2013, 09:18:19
Lightest to heaviest in actuation force: red/brown/blue, black, clear, white/green, lgrey/tgrey
Lightest to heaviest in bottom out force: red/brown/blue, black, white/green, clear, lgrey/tgrey
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: phoenix1234 on Thu, 06 June 2013, 11:39:34
Lightest to heaviest in actuation force: red/brown/blue, black, clear, white/green, lgrey/tgrey
Lightest to heaviest in bottom out force: red/brown/blue, black, white/green, clear, lgrey/tgrey

Thank you for your interesting figure, it can explain why my regular bottom-out habit on the default Cherry MX Clear leads to the fact that my fingers get tired quickly, even quicker than MX Black obviously.  ;D
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 06 June 2013, 11:42:58
Sure clear have 20g more force for bottoming than black. Definitely quite fatiguing if you are bottoming them.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: DrinkTea on Thu, 06 June 2013, 11:45:42
I'd like to see that as a way to teach me to have better typing habits. I think I'm actually bottoming out less now that I'm using clears. It feels nice.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: funkymeeba on Thu, 06 June 2013, 12:55:37
This thread makes me happy. I'm glad I'm not the only one interested in this swap. Guess I'll find out how it feels when my GH60s roll around. :D
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 06 June 2013, 14:27:51
From my experience, having a Clear spring in a Blue is definitely a lot more stiffer than a stock Green (I've owned the Ducky Limited Edition Greens and just random green switches). If anything, a blue switch with clear switches is definitely one of the stiffest switches I've ever felt.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: DrinkTea on Thu, 06 June 2013, 14:50:13
But what is the variance in the springs? I believe cherry publishes numbers on this. Also, I would imagine that inter-batch variability could be more than intra-batch. So any given keyboard will be relatively consistent, but two keyboards with the same springs and switches might feel different since the parts aren't an SRS from all available. Am I correct in assuming this?

Also, how much of the resistance comes from the switch as opposed to the spring. The spring's force should be linear in compression, so is there also a lot of variability in the resistance provided by the sliders?
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: grips on Thu, 06 June 2013, 15:22:35
But what is the variance in the springs? I believe cherry publishes numbers on this. Also, I would imagine that inter-batch variability could be more than intra-batch. So any given keyboard will be relatively consistent, but two keyboards with the same springs and switches might feel different since the parts aren't an SRS from all available. Am I correct in assuming this?

Also, how much of the resistance comes from the switch as opposed to the spring. The spring's force should be linear in compression, so is there also a lot of variability in the resistance provided by the sliders?

There's probably something to what you say about the variance. I have a Ducky and Das with blue switches and they feel different. I believe they are both plate-mounted, so that shouldn't be the difference. The click even sounds slightly different.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: VesperSAINT on Thu, 06 June 2013, 15:25:33
I think that the different feel is very subtle but rather than the switch and spring that giving off the different feels, it's more so the different brands and the difference in the construction of the keyboard, the keycaps play a huge part (abs/pbt/oem profile/cherry profile), full size or tkl (plate), case and how firmly/tightly the plate and parts are built into the case. Construction of the case can give off different feels and sounds because of resonance and so on, I think.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: DrinkTea on Thu, 06 June 2013, 15:25:41
I've noticed that the click actually sounds different on different switches on the same board with MX whites that I have.

I guess understanding switch and spring variability would require more knowledge of the manufacturing process than I have. Anyone here want to pitch in some knowledge?
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: davkol on Thu, 06 June 2013, 15:48:50
I guess we need (or at least I do) light clear-like springs (in terms of length or number of coils). That should prevent bottoming out on light switches.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Thu, 06 June 2013, 16:28:05
Oh that would be a nice custom spring, say 50g actuation, then ramps to like 80g to bottom.

According to the MX datasheets I have they allow ±20cN tolerance on springs so if you think something is lighter or heavier on same switch type is is quite possible it is not your imagination. But also as mentioned there are plenty of other factors related to assembly and materials, etc. that will effect the perceived feeling.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: davkol on Thu, 06 June 2013, 16:42:29
Group Buy! Group Buy!
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: margo baggins on Fri, 07 June 2013, 12:02:21
I love blue switches and clear springs.

I have been typing on them for the last 30 minutes or so. I like them alot.
Title: Re: Mx Blue with clear spring
Post by: Grimey on Fri, 07 June 2013, 13:17:54
Have been using blue stems with black springs for a last couple of months at work.  I was worried I would find the combination overly fatiguing, but I have come to enjoy it quite a bit.

In the future it might be interesting to try a clicky stem variant with a stiffer spring than the cherry black sprint.