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geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:05:20

Title: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:05:20
Fck every keyboard that is not an Ergodox....

After a few days with this thing... There is no going back... :D

All of my shoulder and wrist pains have subsided, I could literally type for hours with no discomfort.

The board feels decently solid while being extremely quiet due to the thick acrylic plate; this as opposed to steel plates which make boards sturdier but also much louder.

I can't say enough good things about straight column keys... I now only need to bend my fingers, and my wrist is consistently at rest..

I am done wasting money on stupid key caps for stupid old staggered qwerty.. I am done buying the same rehashed inefficient pieces of yesterday.  Every keyboard I've bought up till now had been identically flawed...

All of that fancy aluminum is just a gilded cage that GHers have trapped themselves in... open a window, see the light...




To anyone who clings to the $1000 dollars they've spent accumulating old tech, I feel for you, but facts are facts, The Ergodox is superior in every way in terms of usability....

for anyone getting into mechanical keyboards, from here on, I would consider anything outside of the Ergodox a mistake...
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: SpAmRaY on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:10:40
So when are you selling off all your other stuff?
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:12:13
So when are you selling off all your other stuff?

giving them away to people around me

it's really not that much..  i consider myself lucky that I haven't gone as deep down that rabbit hole as some others have...  Regardless, salvation is possible at any depth....

Get an ergodox, and you shall be saved......... :))
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:16:29
OK, then when are we going to see these produced at a larger scale. If they're great, we need to market them and production needs to be scaled up. Looking at it, there's no reason this should cost much more than a standard keyboard. And I agree that we're clinging to old technology. Even having the arrow keys and numpad on the right seems to be a vestige of days before mice.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: morpheus on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:17:29
At first, I thought it looked ridiculous, kind of like those ancient ergo boards of the past. But I just imagined myself typing on one and for some reason the concept started to grow on me. I think if I ever had the funds and time, I might get one someday.

Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:20:03
At first, I thought it looked ridiculous, kind of like those ancient ergo boards of the past. But I just imagined myself typing on one and for some reason the concept started to grow on me. I think if I ever had the funds and time, I might get one someday.



you have an fc660 in your sig,, that could've been an ergo dox...   I built 2 ergodoxes in only 6 hours.. this includes lubing one of them, and ergo mod on both.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 12:23:03
OK, then when are we going to see these produced at a larger scale. If they're great, we need to market them and production needs to be scaled up. Looking at it, there's no reason this should cost much more than a standard keyboard. And I agree that we're clinging to old technology. Even having the arrow keys and numpad on the right seems to be a vestige of days before mice.

The issue with staggered qwerty is that it's entrenched in people's minds...

People can't imagine a keyboard outside of the rectangle...


We really have to get this thing out on an early primary school level...  government contract...

Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: 1391406 on Wed, 12 June 2013, 17:29:10
People can't imagine a keyboard outside of the rectangle...

I can, but I'm not spending 3 hours building one. If they came pre-assembled and had a return policy, I'd consider ordering.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: fohat.digs on Wed, 12 June 2013, 17:37:45
I use a desktop and a laptop, and "maintain" (arrgh, the pain) computers for half a dozen people, so, as I get older, I get more and more resistant to "odd" layouts that confuse my fingers.

One day, when it is just me, and no number-crunching, I intend to ditch the number pad and convert to Colemak.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 17:50:57
People can't imagine a keyboard outside of the rectangle...

I can, but I'm not spending 3 hours building one. If they came pre-assembled and had a return policy, I'd consider ordering.

Exactly the point. People buy funky shaped "ergonomic" keyboards all the time. Anyway, if anyone actually wants to start a business selling these, let me know and we'll see what can be done. Otherwise, don't complain.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Jagriff on Wed, 12 June 2013, 17:56:37
I love everything about my ergodox. I especially like the fact that I built it myself.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 18:13:13
I love everything about my ergodox. I especially like the fact that I built it myself.

And you can continue to do that. I believe the design is public domain? But realistically, there's likely a much larger market of people who want it or could be convinced to want it if it were pre assembled. And on top of that, economies of scale might make it even cheaper, even before accounting for the value of your time.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: vun on Wed, 12 June 2013, 18:39:57
I love everything about my ergodox. I especially like the fact that I built it myself.

And you can continue to do that. I believe the design is public domain? But realistically, there's likely a much larger market of people who want it or could be convinced to want it if it were pre assembled. And on top of that, economies of scale might make it even cheaper, even before accounting for the value of your time.

Count me in amongst the people who would be interested in a pre-assembled one. It looks like a great keyboard, but having to get the parts, find someone else to build it for me, source caps etc. was far too much work for me, especially when I don't live in the US.
So yeah, if someone starts selling these already assembled I would most likely buy one straight away.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: MJ45 on Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:11:16
I'm going to hold out until a Topre version Ergodox. That would be very nice, there's always hope. 
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:25:14
I'm going to hold out until a Topre version Ergodox. That would be very nice, there's always hope.

If I'm not mistaken they don't sell their switches as easily as Cherry. Yet another reason to try and make a real business of this. Because if there's demand, guess what, it is more likely to be made than by sitting around wishing.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Jagriff on Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:43:02
I love everything about my ergodox. I especially like the fact that I built it myself.

And you can continue to do that. I believe the design is public domain? But realistically, there's likely a much larger market of people who want it or could be convinced to want it if it were pre assembled. And on top of that, economies of scale might make it even cheaper, even before accounting for the value of your time.
Well of course it would be more popular if it were preassembled. I wouldn't have hesitated to get one for as long as I did if I didn't have to go through the trouble of learning how to solder, purchasing an iron, and doing other prep work for the assembly. Despite of that, I am glad that I ended up putting it together.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:50:58
I love everything about my ergodox. I especially like the fact that I built it myself.

And you can continue to do that. I believe the design is public domain? But realistically, there's likely a much larger market of people who want it or could be convinced to want it if it were pre assembled. And on top of that, economies of scale might make it even cheaper, even before accounting for the value of your time.
Well of course it would be more popular if it were preassembled. I wouldn't have hesitated to get one for as long as I did if I didn't have to go through the trouble of learning how to solder, purchasing an iron, and doing other prep work for the assembly. Despite of that, I am glad that I ended up putting it together.

Laziness is not an excuse for not getting an ergo dox.... if you use a computer daily,, this thing is life-changing... It helps you use the computer MOREEE.... which I didn't think was posssible... I feel like I'm putting in 20 hours on my PC despite only being awake for 16..
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:52:44
How is it lazy to want specialization of labor and economies of scale to work in your favor. I'm offering to help start a business selling these damn things but I need someone with more specific domain knowledge to work with.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 19:58:48
How is it lazy to want specialization of labor and economies of scale to work in your favor. I'm offering to help start a business selling these damn things but I need someone with more specific domain knowledge to work with.

DrinkTea, You're think further ahead than possible with this type of thing... There are many roadblocks that can only be solved with TIME, and if you really want to put in your share of the deed,  Assemble an ergodox, and feel the wonder... then tell your face book friends..
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:01:30
How? The designs exist. What are essentially prototypes exist. So what it needed is to assess and create demand and figure out what the costs of manufacturing at scale would be and then get some contracts in place. After that, you can probably set up a kickstarter and even people who have never heard of mechanical keyboards would buy one.

And tell me, what are these roadblocks? It's easy to say why something can't be done and just forget about it. Or, you can figure out how to do it. But let me tell you, waiting around won't.
Now, do you want to help, or not?

Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:04:06
I use a desktop and a laptop, and "maintain" (arrgh, the pain) computers for half a dozen people, so, as I get older, I get more and more resistant to "odd" layouts that confuse my fingers.

One day, when it is just me, and no number-crunching, I intend to ditch the number pad and convert to Colemak.


well, yea, you may feel this way as an older gent... but I think you got a good 30 years left where your fingers still work.. This is where the ergodox comes in...  it took all of 5 days for me to return to 110wpm... from standard staggered qwerty...

I think many people are assuming that it would far more effort than it actually does to make the switch...  The ergodox, is highly intuitive....

yes it requires practice, but this is a change you'll make for the rest of your life, not a set piece for your memories...
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: gameaholic on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:10:57
WTB Titanium case ergodox.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:16:10
How? The designs exist. What are essentially prototypes exist. So what it needed is to assess and create demand and figure out what the costs of manufacturing at scale would be and then get some contracts in place. After that, you can probably set up a kickstarter and even people who have never heard of mechanical keyboards would buy one.

And tell me, what are these roadblocks? It's easy to say why something can't be done and just forget about it. Or, you can figure out how to do it. But let me tell you, waiting around won't.
Now, do you want to help, or not?



The poison in our system is that schools are teaching typing at an early age on staggered qwerty.... This means we would need an adventurous user to buy this keyboard.

Ontop of that RSI injuries do not occur when you're younger, it's only after years of abusing your own body all through adolescence that you come to the realization that, ****, I need an ergodox...

BY then, You're like the rest of the lazy people making excuses here, oh I don't have the time, it's too much effort...   this is the entrenchment of staggered qwerty.



Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:21:01
WTB Titanium case ergodox.

I think this gilded pen thing really needs to stop... it's a serious waste of money and resources to produce luxury products..

Luxury and the cravings for it is a throwback to our lesser learned ancestors... they pilled heaps of rock to determine status, and when everyone had rocks, someone started carving them.... and when all the rocks were carved.... so on and so on, the nervous bourgeois starts stepping over each other because it creates the necessary evil to abhor against their false idol...


This is not representative of the ergodox.... the ergodox is like the invention of the wheelbarrow... it gets you from A to B better than a sled....
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:42:07
How? The designs exist. What are essentially prototypes exist. So what it needed is to assess and create demand and figure out what the costs of manufacturing at scale would be and then get some contracts in place. After that, you can probably set up a kickstarter and even people who have never heard of mechanical keyboards would buy one.

And tell me, what are these roadblocks? It's easy to say why something can't be done and just forget about it. Or, you can figure out how to do it. But let me tell you, waiting around won't.
Now, do you want to help, or not?



The poison in our system is that schools are teaching typing at an early age on staggered qwerty.... This means we would need an adventurous user to buy this keyboard.

Ontop of that RSI injuries do not occur when you're younger, it's only after years of abusing your own body all through adolescence that you come to the realization that, ****, I need an ergodox...

BY then, You're like the rest of the lazy people making excuses here, oh I don't have the time, it's too much effort...   this is the entrenchment of staggered qwerty.

You're really harping on this school thing. It's not as relevant as you think. Remember those weird wave shaped "ergonomic" keyboards by microsoft and the like. Those were popular, and nonstandard. If I remember coorectly, they were quite "fashionable" in the late 90's and early 2000's. Seriously, if you market it well and charge a reasonable price, people will buy it.
But if you just sit around being a "****ing ****less *******" (look it up, I didn't invent it) then nothing will ever change. Now, do you want to help or do you want to sit around talking about what you think can't be done.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 20:49:58
How? The designs exist. What are essentially prototypes exist. So what it needed is to assess and create demand and figure out what the costs of manufacturing at scale would be and then get some contracts in place. After that, you can probably set up a kickstarter and even people who have never heard of mechanical keyboards would buy one.

And tell me, what are these roadblocks? It's easy to say why something can't be done and just forget about it. Or, you can figure out how to do it. But let me tell you, waiting around won't.
Now, do you want to help, or not?



The poison in our system is that schools are teaching typing at an early age on staggered qwerty.... This means we would need an adventurous user to buy this keyboard.

Ontop of that RSI injuries do not occur when you're younger, it's only after years of abusing your own body all through adolescence that you come to the realization that, ****, I need an ergodox...

BY then, You're like the rest of the lazy people making excuses here, oh I don't have the time, it's too much effort...   this is the entrenchment of staggered qwerty.

You're really harping on this school thing. It's not as relevant as you think. Remember those weird wave shaped "ergonomic" keyboards by microsoft and the like. Those were popular, and nonstandard. If I remember coorectly, they were quite "fashionable" in the late 90's and early 2000's. Seriously, if you market it well and charge a reasonable price, people will buy it.
But if you just sit around being a "****ing ****less *******" (look it up, I didn't invent it) then nothing will ever change. Now, do you want to help or do you want to sit around talking about what you think can't be done.

What is your occupation sir... and what do you plan to do...  lets hear this grand scheme you've got.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:00:16
It's not a grand scheme.
Personally, I'm a statistician. Well, ok, a grad student. But that's not the point.
I already have one project in the production pipeline. It's not a keyboard, but it is another piece of computer equipment. Prototypes are being built now. It's really all about finding the right people. In that case, PCB design was needed, but this is even easier. I also have a few manufacturing connections.

But more importantly, what I've learned from the other project so far, is that none of that matters. All that matters is that if you have a good idea, and you're friendly but tenacious, people will hear out out. Just go out there and contact people and don't stop until you get an answer. The fact is that there are places that can build this. You just need to talk to them. Then, you can nail down costs. As for surveying the market, doing financial feasibility analysis and whatnot, I have the knowledge and numeracy to do that. And, really, if you're risk averse, you can nail down manufacturing contracts contingent on something like kickstarter. That way, for the fee they charge, you get a little peace of mind knowing that you'll only make it if you sell a minimum quantity.

And by the way, no one's going to get it if you just go around yelling at them about how great it is. You need to show, not tell.
Now, help out or get out of the way. And I think I'm done here. Not upset by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you.
And if anyone's interested, please PM me.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: daerid on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:00:55
For once I might end up agreeing with TP. The more I sit here looking at my unfinished ErgoDox the more I feel like the layout will really work for me. However, the 40A O-rings I have actually don't do jack for the DSA caps it comes with. I'd like to find some relatively soft O-rings that will work with the DSA caps and Clears.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:08:27
By the way, I just want to add a little lesson I learned recently. All of us students gave presentations and were talking to some professors after. And one of them said something to the extent of, anyone can find something wrong with research, but it's a lot harder to see what's right in it. And generally, I think that holds true. Anyone can sit around criticizing something, saying why it's bad and can't be done and the like. Kind of like the zealotry in the smartphone "wars". It's easy to talk about what the platform you don't like can't do. But anyone can insult. It's a lot harder to see things for what they are and talk about the negatives only in the context of real solutions.

Also, shut your troll hole. I just wanted to say that because it sounds silly and rhymes. hehe
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:08:29
It's not a grand scheme.
Personally, I'm a statistician. Well, ok, a grad student. But that's not the point.
I already have one project in the production pipeline. It's not a keyboard, but it is another piece of computer equipment. Prototypes are being built now. It's really all about finding the right people. In that case, PCB design was needed, but this is even easier. I also have a few manufacturing connections.

But more importantly, what I've learned from the other project so far, is that none of that matters. All that matters is that if you have a good idea, and you're friendly but tenacious, people will hear out out. Just go out there and contact people and don't stop until you get an answer. The fact is that there are places that can build this. You just need to talk to them. Then, you can nail down costs. As for surveying the market, doing financial feasibility analysis and whatnot, I have the knowledge and numeracy to do that. And, really, if you're risk averse, you can nail down manufacturing contracts contingent on something like kickstarter. That way, for the fee they charge, you get a little peace of mind knowing that you'll only make it if you sell a minimum quantity.

And by the way, no one's going to get it if you just go around yelling at them about how great it is. You need to show, not tell.
Now, help out or get out of the way. And I think I'm done here. Not upset by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you.
And if anyone's interested, please PM me.

Your agenda and motivation is profit... this is fine...

I don't know why you consider me in the way, if anything I'm doing the promotion for free and out of the fact that i know others suffer wrist and shoulder pain.

My only intention had been to inform.. my only motivation out of charity... if you want to go talk down to someone, talk to someone who's actively harming society... I do not deserve this crap from you..

Don't be so full of yourself
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: badcop on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:08:47
Learning how to solder with a 15 dollar radio shack iron really isn't that hard. Watch a YouTube video and you'll have it in like 10 minutes. It should solve your problems...
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: DrinkTea on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:10:52
It's not a grand scheme.
Personally, I'm a statistician. Well, ok, a grad student. But that's not the point.
I already have one project in the production pipeline. It's not a keyboard, but it is another piece of computer equipment. Prototypes are being built now. It's really all about finding the right people. In that case, PCB design was needed, but this is even easier. I also have a few manufacturing connections.

But more importantly, what I've learned from the other project so far, is that none of that matters. All that matters is that if you have a good idea, and you're friendly but tenacious, people will hear out out. Just go out there and contact people and don't stop until you get an answer. The fact is that there are places that can build this. You just need to talk to them. Then, you can nail down costs. As for surveying the market, doing financial feasibility analysis and whatnot, I have the knowledge and numeracy to do that. And, really, if you're risk averse, you can nail down manufacturing contracts contingent on something like kickstarter. That way, for the fee they charge, you get a little peace of mind knowing that you'll only make it if you sell a minimum quantity.

And by the way, no one's going to get it if you just go around yelling at them about how great it is. You need to show, not tell.
Now, help out or get out of the way. And I think I'm done here. Not upset by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you.
And if anyone's interested, please PM me.

Your agenda and motivation is profit... this is fine...

I don't know why you consider me in the way, if anything I'm doing the promotion for free and out of the fact that i know others suffer wrist and shoulder pain.

My only intention had been to inform.. my only motivation out of charity... if you want to go talk down to someone, talk to someone who's actively harming society... I do not deserve this crap from you..

Don't be so full of yourself.

It's not all profit! This is a GOOD product. And if something is good, why not bring it to market. Profit just provides that little extra push! At least, that's how capitalism is supposed to work.

And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to talk down to you or hurt your feelings. I was just trying to psyche you up into helping out. Either way, good luck with your campaign. It does look like an interesting board. And if it does become a full fledged product, you'd be great as a product evangelist.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 21:15:38
It's not a grand scheme.
Personally, I'm a statistician. Well, ok, a grad student. But that's not the point.
I already have one project in the production pipeline. It's not a keyboard, but it is another piece of computer equipment. Prototypes are being built now. It's really all about finding the right people. In that case, PCB design was needed, but this is even easier. I also have a few manufacturing connections.

But more importantly, what I've learned from the other project so far, is that none of that matters. All that matters is that if you have a good idea, and you're friendly but tenacious, people will hear out out. Just go out there and contact people and don't stop until you get an answer. The fact is that there are places that can build this. You just need to talk to them. Then, you can nail down costs. As for surveying the market, doing financial feasibility analysis and whatnot, I have the knowledge and numeracy to do that. And, really, if you're risk averse, you can nail down manufacturing contracts contingent on something like kickstarter. That way, for the fee they charge, you get a little peace of mind knowing that you'll only make it if you sell a minimum quantity.

And by the way, no one's going to get it if you just go around yelling at them about how great it is. You need to show, not tell.
Now, help out or get out of the way. And I think I'm done here. Not upset by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you.
And if anyone's interested, please PM me.

Your agenda and motivation is profit... this is fine...

I don't know why you consider me in the way, if anything I'm doing the promotion for free and out of the fact that i know others suffer wrist and shoulder pain.

My only intention had been to inform.. my only motivation out of charity... if you want to go talk down to someone, talk to someone who's actively harming society... I do not deserve this crap from you..

Don't be so full of yourself.

It's not all profit! This is a GOOD product. And if something is good, why not bring it to market. Profit just provides that little extra push! At least, that's how capitalism is supposed to work.

And I'm sorry, I didn't mean to talk down to you or hurt your feelings. I was just trying to psyche you up into helping out. Either way, good luck with your campaign. It does look like an interesting board. And if it does become a full fledged product, you'd be great as a product evangelist.

Drink tea, we can be friends... now that we have gotten over being enemies...  I really do hope you understand that I am try to help..
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Glod on Wed, 12 June 2013, 22:27:41
i think it is implied that i agree with you on this topic

except i'm not getting rid of my other keyboards, because im enjoying putting these together and collecting.

Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: pprjr on Wed, 12 June 2013, 23:02:55
I am interested in a ergodox, but I do not want to assemble one, someone would be willing to sell a assembled to me or tell me where I can find to buy?
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: typo on Wed, 12 June 2013, 23:35:23
well, I have a different experience. not because of my condition you may have just read about either. I can't even hunt and peck on this thing! I just cannot figure it out. it is like trying to do karate with no training. well to be honest I cannot even use a ms natural. the split layout just does not jive with my muscle memory or whatever. in fact I have mentioned many times recently I get the best performance with spherical keys on a qwerty. I do have a problem with modifiers but I can touch type alright. i may have never been really good and just accepted that. if i use the modifiers i slow to like 50wpm. this of course is all me though. i can tell that for a good typist the ergodox is very nice.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 12 June 2013, 23:45:00
well, I have a different experience. not because of my condition you may have just read about either. I can't even hunt and peck on this thing! I just cannot figure it out. it is like trying to do karate with no training. well to be honest I cannot even use a ms natural. the split layout just does not jive with my muscle memory or whatever. in fact I have mentioned many times recently I get the best performance with spherical keys on a qwerty. I do have a problem with modifiers but I can touch type alright. i may have never been really good and just accepted that. if i use the modifiers i slow to like 50wpm. this of course is all me though. i can tell that for a good typist the ergodox is very nice.

hey man, definitely keep at it..

I am 130-140 max on standard keyboard.

I switched 3 keys on the ergo dox to completely different positions  "b "p and "y.  along with numerous other lesser used keys.

First few days I was at 50wpm like you using the mods in new places, and the 3 new alpha placements... but by the third day I' completely had down the alpha placements, and only needed to get more used to the mods.

5th day I am back at 100+ on standard content.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: zoolzoo on Thu, 13 June 2013, 04:43:44
Ill just leave this here... Glod's ergodox.

sex


(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3833/8943930400_c2e1f0b47e.jpg)
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: y0fate on Thu, 13 June 2013, 05:46:49
Learning how to solder with a 15 dollar radio shack iron really isn't that hard. Watch a YouTube video and you'll have it in like 10 minutes. It should solve your problems...
Have to agree with this. This is exactly how I started (I actually think it was emore like $5, gotta love sales), but I went down to my Radio Shack picked up the cheapest soldering iron I could and went to work. I had to work with real small precise solders (Xbox controller) I had to solder a wire to the smallest little pin imaginable (http://"http://prntscr.com/19pufb"), practiced for about 5 minutes on some scraps and went to work.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: morpheus on Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:36:24
Not to derail the thread here, but I think the Kinesis Advantage may be more ergonomic than the Ergodox.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: 1391406 on Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:40:24
Laziness is not an excuse for not getting an ergo dox...

I'm late responding to this, but I feel compelled. Personally, I have no interest in spending 3 hours building something I'm not even sure I'll like.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:43:43
Ya know, I usually hate to agree with anything tp4tissue has to say, but the design of the Ergodox could be revolutionary and have commercial appeal.  Just look at those group buys. My non keyboard acquiantances are even intrigued by the board.  If a big company gets a hold of this thing, it could be massive.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 13 June 2013, 08:59:47
Not to derail the thread here, but I think the Kinesis Advantage may be more ergonomic than the Ergodox.

Yes those depressed key wells are better to type on, and the the thumb keys are in a better position but the split of the Ergodox is a great feature. 

But if you have tried a Maltron, then you realize the Kinesis Advantage is a knockoff of that board.   The only advantages of the Kinesis over Maltron is programmability and price.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 13 June 2013, 09:02:34
Not to derail the thread here, but I think the Kinesis Advantage may be more ergonomic than the Ergodox.

not nearly as versatile as the ergodox..

Kinesis has no width adjustment,    ergodox can be placed at any distance apart to exactly match your shoulder width.

Kinesis also does not support adjustable tenting..   Ergodox can be tented in any axis on both hands.

Kinesis is not open source or user programmable..
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Thu, 13 June 2013, 12:31:17
Kinesis is not open source or user programmable..

One of the models is. Maybe not as fully as dox with all the layers though.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 June 2013, 16:05:57
Here's my updated layout:
More
Show Image
(http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m197/jagriff333/ErgoDoxLayout_zpsd6664c22.jpg)

The -_ is positioned so that I can hit it with the same motion as hitting space, which-is-very-appropriate.
I have easy access to ALT+F4 (on ~L1) and ALT+TAB isn't too unnatural.
HJKL (editing purposes) and WASD (screen hotkey purposes, such as WIN+Shift+Left) are arrow keys on the function layer.
Everything else is pretty self-explanatory.
The F1-F8 keys on layer 0 are there just because I cannot think of a better use for those keys.

Kinesis is not open source or user programmable..

One of the models is. Maybe not as fully as dox with all the layers though.

ALSO... You can COSTAR stabilizers to the thumb keys on the Edox.. can't do jack about it with the kinesis...

I just finished stab-in all 4 keys today.

To all edox owners, it makes a world of difference....  HIGHLY recommended..

Back spacing, and spacing are now much more responsive and less grindy.. 



Costar FTW
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: daerid on Fri, 14 June 2013, 16:17:13
TP: Which stabs did you end up getting? I'm assuming you purchased them from WASD?
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 June 2013, 16:46:54
TP: Which stabs did you end up getting? I'm assuming you purchased them from WASD?

what up D

wasd only sells costar.

Couple of steps as it is more complicated with the ergodox, but it absolutely works, and works well.... infact I'd argue it is superior on the ergodox, because there's slight room to adjust the stabilizers forward and backward to fit your key cap..


Step 1, cut front peg off completely,

Step 2, shave rear peg FLAT

step 3, check how wide your stabilizer hole is.

..........if hole is really wide.. use folded paper to tighten fit

..........if hole is only a little bit too loose.. use scotch tape

.................the reason you don't want to use tape if the hole is very loose is because you can't get the tape to conform around the inner seam of the stabilizer if there are too many layers.

you only need to add material to the INNER side of the stabilizer hole, the side towards the keyswitch.

DO NOT add material to front//back of the stabilizer, it is unnecessary.


Adjustment step_

If you have a costar stabilizer board, take one of the stabilized keys off, and look at the spacing.. just apply the same to the ergodox,

you can eyeball this... it requires up to .5 mm precision.. if you're off by more than that, the stabs might feel tight.



I do not recommend perma mounting using glue, because stabs wear out over time... and will require replacement.


cut like below

Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: daerid on Fri, 14 June 2013, 17:24:12
Ok cool. Just nabbed a bunch of 2x stab sets from WASD. Will try this when I put my Dox together this weekend. Thanks!
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Glod on Fri, 14 June 2013, 18:05:27
i like me ergodox sans stabilizers :D
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 June 2013, 18:07:40
i like me ergodox sans stabilizers :D

LIES, you're just giving in to the lazy. :D

1.5x is maximum for un-stabilized cherry mx
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Glod on Fri, 14 June 2013, 18:27:14
i tried one out like this on my right space bar, similar method to what you did but i used flush cutters and clipped them, then used some vinyl to make it fit. it wasn't really that i didn't like it it is that i didn't notice a difference, just more sound.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Fri, 14 June 2013, 19:28:19
i tried one out like this on my right space bar, similar method to what you did but i used flush cutters and clipped them, then used some vinyl to make it fit. it wasn't really that i didn't like it it is that i didn't notice a difference, just more sound.

I think you may need to give it more time.

For example..  words that have higher row letters or numbers near the end ;uio7890

These would require you to move your hand UP a little.. so when you hit the bar, it'll be near the upper edges..

Conversely if you have nmy,./ near the end of a word, then you'd be on the lower edge of the space key

These are the places where it makes the greatest difference..   



If you test it by just tapping it in the center, yea, it won't make much of a difference..

Also.. lots of lube takes away the rattle noise.. :D

That's the thing bout costar.. they rattle, but because of the loose contact, the action is much smoother than cherry.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: daerid on Fri, 14 June 2013, 19:46:43
I'll probably use some white lithium grease on the stabs just like I used to with my Filcos
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Larken on Fri, 14 June 2013, 21:28:53
I'll probably use some white lithium grease on the stabs just like I used to with my Filcos

you're gonna have to do some extensive modding or use glue to secure the stabs on the ergodox. acrylic plates are too thick, and the cutouts aren't right either. imo, modding the plates for stabs are too much trouble for too little gain.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: knotra on Fri, 14 June 2013, 21:41:03
People can't imagine a keyboard outside of the rectangle...

I can, but I'm not spending 3 hours building one. If they came pre-assembled and had a return policy, I'd consider ordering.

Exactly the point. People buy funky shaped "ergonomic" keyboards all the time. Anyway, if anyone actually wants to start a business selling these, let me know and we'll see what can be done. Otherwise, don't complain.

^^ I would agree. There are a bunch of great keyboards that are self built and/or modded but the availability of them is limited. If someone were to sell them pre-assembled, I would buy it in a second.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: daerid on Fri, 14 June 2013, 22:15:26
I'll probably use some white lithium grease on the stabs just like I used to with my Filcos

you're gonna have to do some extensive modding or use glue to secure the stabs on the ergodox. acrylic plates are too thick, and the cutouts aren't right either. imo, modding the plates for stabs are too much trouble for too little gain.

Luckily the stabs were only $8, so if it doesn't work out no big loss
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Riddixk51PB on Fri, 14 June 2013, 22:24:02
op is suffering from extreme buyers remorse and resorts to casting about with expletives in order to feel better about a blundering acquisition.

think outside the split, fail shaped, tenting, programmable rpg kbd box.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Fri, 14 June 2013, 23:03:39
op is suffering from extreme buyers remorse and resorts to casting about with expletives in order to feel better about a blundering acquisition.

think outside the split, fail shaped, tenting, programmable rpg kbd box.

If he was having remorse he could sell it for more than he paid in a second.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 June 2013, 00:20:05
op is suffering from extreme buyers remorse and resorts to casting about with expletives in order to feel better about a blundering acquisition.

think outside the split, fail shaped, tenting, programmable rpg kbd box.

If he was having remorse he could sell it for more than he paid in a second.

Not to mention, a keyboard previously used by me instantly gives its users Troll +999 mastery,  well worth the expense....
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tricheboars on Sat, 15 June 2013, 01:26:48
tp4tissue what caps are you using? dsa? i hear those are the best with the ergodox.

edit: also just commited to massdrop if the ergo goes down to 199
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 June 2013, 01:58:46
tp4tissue what caps are you using? dsa? i hear those are the best with the ergodox.

edit: also just commited to massdrop if the ergo goes down to 199

I'm using the dsa mods.

But the rest I'm using OEM. I ordered both the DCS and the DSA.. the DCS I felt were harder to type with given the smaller verticle area, making the key-presses require more travel/ precision

The DCS worked better, but then i felt I liked to use my silicon rings which were too thick.. So I put on my old oem pbt-s

 The DCS mod is the current best for the 2x thumb keys   all dcs/oem/cherry thumb keys are not very good fits because of their slope..

I think the R4 keys would be good but alas they're too tall.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: libo720 on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:29:36
Where can i buy one in North America?
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: linziyi on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:39:20
tp4tissue what caps are you using? dsa? i hear those are the best with the ergodox.

edit: also just commited to massdrop if the ergo goes down to 199

I'm using the dsa mods.

But the rest I'm using OEM. I ordered both the DCS and the DSA.. the DCS I felt were harder to type with given the smaller verticle area, making the key-presses require more travel/ precision

The DCS worked better, but then i felt I liked to use my silicon rings which were too thick.. So I put on my old oem pbt-s

 The DCS mod is the current best for the 2x thumb keys   all dcs/oem/cherry thumb keys are not very good fits because of their slope..

I think the R4 keys would be good but alas they're too tall.

you mean DSA is a little difficult to type?
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Jagriff on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:46:06
I think the DSA caps are fine. Just like switches, you really have to try them before you can decide whether or not they're "for you".
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: kenmai9 on Sun, 16 June 2013, 17:21:17
Where can i buy one in North America?
I'm guessing here: https://www.massdrop.com/
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 June 2013, 22:42:15
I think the DSA caps are fine. Just like switches, you really have to try them before you can decide whether or not they're "for you".

I concur it comes down to preference..

in this case i must be more specific.. I prefer the larger surface area of oem or cherry profile because it's easier to switch between rows as the distance is breached ever so slightly more than DSA.

:D
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: Glod on Sun, 16 June 2013, 22:54:13
i can see where you are coming from with the OEM/Cherry preference but it is indeed a personal preference and maybe the way you type as well. i seriously don't notice the difference anymore.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: daerid on Mon, 17 June 2013, 15:58:55
I think I'm actually going to agree with TP again: I much prefer DCS over DSA. However, for the thumb clusters and vertical buttons I still use the DSA caps. Now I just wish they had included some R3's with homing nubs (finding my way back to the home row is the biggest problem I have with the ErgoDox at the moment). Otherwise, 65g stickered clears on this thing is a dream. Gonna take a while to get used to the layout and retrain my muscle memory.
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: kenmai9 on Mon, 17 June 2013, 16:24:24
I made this for you tp:

(http://i.imgur.com/5t2S3Au.png)
Title: Re: I'm just going to say it....
Post by: tp4tissue on Mon, 17 June 2013, 17:22:50
I made this for you tp:

Show Image
(http://i.imgur.com/5t2S3Au.png)


That looks just like me..... :D