geekhack

geekhack Community => Keyboards => Topic started by: SubGothius on Thu, 13 June 2013, 17:16:54

Title: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: SubGothius on Thu, 13 June 2013, 17:16:54
[crossposting here for those who don't check the geekhack marketplace > great finds subforum]

Massdrop is now rerunning the ErgoDox kit group buy for round 3! Same URL as round 1 this time:
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox/

Here's the original thread where ErgoDox was developed and build/customization discussions are ongoing:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780

FWIW, here's mine that I just finished building from round 1:

[attach=1]
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Thu, 13 June 2013, 17:25:15
.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: dadgh on Thu, 13 June 2013, 17:28:26
Cool, signed up. I hope the price goes down.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Thu, 13 June 2013, 18:55:10
I might actually have to pick up a second one of these
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: grips on Thu, 13 June 2013, 18:59:25
Dammit. No money now.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: vun on Thu, 13 June 2013, 19:09:29
Would so want one of those, but I have neither the equipment or skills necessary to build one nor a convenient source of caps.

Might be a good place to start learning how to solder and stuff though.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: vivalarevolución on Thu, 13 June 2013, 19:13:30
Gosh another one of these is tempting.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Jagriff on Thu, 13 June 2013, 19:15:43
Would so want one of those, but I have neither the equipment or skills necessary to build one nor a convenient source of caps.

Might be a good place to start learning how to solder and stuff though.
I learned how to solder to prepare for building my round 2 ErgoDox. It's definitely worth it!

You can add on blank black PBT DSA keycaps for $37.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Thu, 13 June 2013, 19:22:22
That's exactly what I did (got the blank DSA).

Hopefully they'll run the DCS caps too, pretty sure a DCS/DSA combination is the best way to go
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: agodinhost on Thu, 13 June 2013, 19:39:20
Gosh - wrong time again ...
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 13 June 2013, 20:38:30
what I say... what I say..... Inebbbitableeee.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: vun on Thu, 13 June 2013, 20:39:58
Would so want one of those, but I have neither the equipment or skills necessary to build one nor a convenient source of caps.

Might be a good place to start learning how to solder and stuff though.
I learned how to solder to prepare for building my round 2 ErgoDox. It's definitely worth it!

You can add on blank black PBT DSA keycaps for $37.

Oh, so when you sign up you get the option to add caps?

I might just go for it, I sorta know how to solder already as I did a teensy bit at school several years ago, so it's not completely foreign to me.

Hmm... Decisions...
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 13 June 2013, 20:55:28
Would so want one of those, but I have neither the equipment or skills necessary to build one nor a convenient source of caps.

Might be a good place to start learning how to solder and stuff though.
I learned how to solder to prepare for building my round 2 ErgoDox. It's definitely worth it!

You can add on blank black PBT DSA keycaps for $37.

Oh, so when you sign up you get the option to add caps?

I might just go for it, I sorta know how to solder already as I did a teensy bit at school several years ago, so it's not completely foreign to me.

Hmm... Decisions...

you just can't help yourself..... :))
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: SubGothius on Fri, 14 June 2013, 19:56:02
I might just go for it, I sorta know how to solder already as I did a teensy bit at school several years ago, so it's not completely foreign to me.

FWIW, I hadn't soldered anything to a PCB since I built a transistor radio kit in high school shop class 25 years ago, and I had no trouble building this kit. I did spring for a decent used temp-controlled soldering station off eBay, spent about the same for that ($~45) as what TheProfosist was charging for a full assembly service in the first round. Now for the same price, I've got the satisfaction of having built it myself, and a good soldering station I can use for further projects. I can recommend using the .022" 62/36/2 rosin-core solder from Radio Shack; it melts and flows real easy, and it's fine-gauge enough to apply in controlled amounts.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Fri, 14 June 2013, 20:23:06
I might just go for it, I sorta know how to solder already as I did a teensy bit at school several years ago, so it's not completely foreign to me.

FWIW, I hadn't soldered anything to a PCB since I built a transistor radio kit in high school shop class 25 years ago, and I had no trouble building this kit. I did spring for a decent used temp-controlled soldering station off eBay, spent about the same for that ($~45) as what TheProfosist was charging for a full assembly service in the first round. Now for the same price, I've got the satisfaction of having built it myself, and a good soldering station I can use for further projects. I can recommend using the .022" 62/36/2 rosin-core solder from Radio Shack; it melts and flows real easy, and it's fine-gauge enough to apply in controlled amounts.

I think I know how to solder... just built a function generator at schol couple days ago, vut that’s light work
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 15 June 2013, 08:39:01
This may be answered somewhere, but there is many threads and such about these now...
It's possible to only use one half, specifically the left half by itself? I was thinking left side only would be a nice gaming pad.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Photekq on Sat, 15 June 2013, 09:14:27
This may be answered somewhere, but there is many threads and such about these now...
It's possible to only use one half, specifically the left half by itself? I was thinking left side only would be a nice gaming pad.
I was also wondering this.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Larken on Sat, 15 June 2013, 10:16:18
This may be answered somewhere, but there is many threads and such about these now...
It's possible to only use one half, specifically the left half by itself? I was thinking left side only would be a nice gaming pad.
I was also wondering this.

possible, but I assume it's not easily done. there have been talk of this before, but no news of an operational model. see:

http://65.111.241.205/index.php?topic=42088.0

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.msg844259#msg844259
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 June 2013, 10:32:24
Can the side with the teensy be used without the other side plugged in? If so, you could just flip the plates and wire everything up on the left side. You'd have to be careful though as the printing  on the PCB would be backwards.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 June 2013, 10:35:46
Can the side with the teensy be used without the other side plugged in? If so, you could just flip the plates and wire everything up on the left side. You'd have to be careful though as the printing  on the PCB would be backwards.

I think the argument moot.

2 reasons.

Even IF it were possible, why would you want to do it.

The ergo dox is superior in every way to traditional staggered

Secondly, you have a tkl, and just half the dox,, then you now have all this unnecessary stuff on your desk space as opposed to just using the ergodox, WHICH CAN DO IT ALL.

Had there been any limitation to the ergodox's functionality , then perhaps you'd keep a second keyboard, but this is not the case..
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: nubbinator on Sat, 15 June 2013, 13:59:22
Can the side with the teensy be used without the other side plugged in? If so, you could just flip the plates and wire everything up on the left side. You'd have to be careful though as the printing  on the PCB would be backwards.

I think the argument moot.

2 reasons.

Even IF it were possible, why would you want to do it.

The ergo dox is superior in every way to traditional staggered

Secondly, you have a tkl, and just half the dox,, then you now have all this unnecessary stuff on your desk space as opposed to just using the ergodox, WHICH CAN DO IT ALL.

Had there been any limitation to the ergodox's functionality , then perhaps you'd keep a second keyboard, but this is not the case..

(http://static.tumblr.com/v1asjlx/CEmlqme87/other_preach_gif.gif)

(http://i.imgur.com/mKQ9R5m.gif)
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 June 2013, 17:37:15
I think the argument moot.

2 reasons.

Even IF it were possible, why would you want to do it.

The ergo dox is superior in every way to traditional staggered

Secondly, you have a tkl, and just half the dox,, then you now have all this unnecessary stuff on your desk space as opposed to just using the ergodox, WHICH CAN DO IT ALL.

Had there been any limitation to the ergodox's functionality , then perhaps you'd keep a second keyboard, but this is not the case..

Actually, it IS possible. Personally I think that the 'Dox should have been flipped anyways, because then you could use it as a normal every day board, and then unplug the right-hand side when it comes to game time, and have a dedicated gaming layout on the left side. It would actually give the 'Dox more flexibility/usefulness IMO.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Sat, 15 June 2013, 22:02:59
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 June 2013, 22:05:50
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

No the dsa caps from sp that are $37 are not thick pbt, they are regular DSA profile regular thickness pbt.

There are 2 type of layer switching..

You can either Toggle layer, which means, hold down toggle layer button, and press the corresponding key to trigger.

OR, you can Push Layer, which means you press the layer button, it holds that layer until you POP layer which returns you to Normal, Or alternatively, You can setup links from any layer to any layer within any layer.

The layers are very powerful, and you can pretty much do whatever you like.

And if you know C, well, then, there's actually no limitations to what you can do, just limitations on how much time you have.

OMG, the teensy also supports overclocking.. i just found out.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Sat, 15 June 2013, 22:12:30
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

No the dsa caps from sp that are $37 are not thick pbt, they are regular DSA profile regular thickness pbt.

There are 2 type of layer switching..

You can either Toggle layer, which means, hold down toggle layer button, and press the corresponding key to trigger.

OR, you can Push Layer, which means you press the layer button, it holds that layer until you POP layer which returns you to Normal, Or alternatively, You can setup links from any layer to any layer within any layer.

The layers are very powerful, and you can pretty much do whatever you like.

And if you know C, well, then, there's actually no limitations to what you can do, just limitations on how much time you have.

OMG, the teensy also supports overclocking.. i just found out.


Thanks a lot for the fast respond!
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 June 2013, 22:32:28
OMG, the teensy also supports overclocking.. i just found out.

What would you need to OC it for?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Sat, 15 June 2013, 22:37:05
OMG, the teensy also supports overclocking.. i just found out.

What would you need to OC it for?

I got a bunch of extra vrm heatsinks from other stuff. :D
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:09:03
Kind’a feel bad because I keep asking questions... Are the switches plate mounted or PCB mounted? I think I’ll buy green switches from the DT groupbuy if the 199 price of ergodox is reached
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Jagriff on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:11:14
The ErgoDox supports plate and pcb mounted switches afaik. You will probably want to mount on the acrylic plate, though, so get the plate mounted switches if possible.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Larken on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:15:03
its non-exclusive. You can use pcb mounted switches along with the acrylic plate - best of both worlds when it comes to stability and alignment.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:24:51
I notice that the PCB has LED holes on it, is it possible to make it a backlit keyboard?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 15 June 2013, 23:51:16
I notice that the PCB has LED holes on it, is it possible to make it a backlit keyboard?

I'm fairly certain yes you can.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Larken on Sun, 16 June 2013, 00:09:14
except for the three inside modifiers on the right side of the board, there aren't holes for leds on the rest of the board.

unless you're willing to do your own hacking and wiring, you can't.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sun, 16 June 2013, 00:14:20
Dorpe. My bad. I was mistaking the non-SM diode holes for LED holes. Larken is correct.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: bbl on Sun, 16 June 2013, 11:27:58
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

No the dsa caps from sp that are $37 are not thick pbt, they are regular DSA profile regular thickness pbt.

There are 2 type of layer switching..

You can either Toggle layer, which means, hold down toggle layer button, and press the corresponding key to trigger.

OR, you can Push Layer, which means you press the layer button, it holds that layer until you POP layer which returns you to Normal, Or alternatively, You can setup links from any layer to any layer within any layer.

The layers are very powerful, and you can pretty much do whatever you like.

And if you know C, well, then, there's actually no limitations to what you can do, just limitations on how much time you have.

OMG, the teensy also supports overclocking.. i just found out.

How do you toggle between and push to different layers on a ErgoDox using the standard layout?  I am considering joining round 3.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Sun, 16 June 2013, 12:23:24
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

No the dsa caps from sp that are $37 are not thick pbt, they are regular DSA profile regular thickness pbt.

There are 2 type of layer switching..

You can either Toggle layer, which means, hold down toggle layer button, and press the corresponding key to trigger.

OR, you can Push Layer, which means you press the layer button, it holds that layer until you POP layer which returns you to Normal, Or alternatively, You can setup links from any layer to any layer within any layer.

The layers are very powerful, and you can pretty much do whatever you like.

And if you know C, well, then, there's actually no limitations to what you can do, just limitations on how much time you have.

OMG, the teensy also supports overclocking.. i just found out.

How do you toggle between and push to different layers on a ErgoDox using the standard layout?  I am considering joining round 3.


you can assign a button for toggle. or you can assign a button to push..

Once in Push, you can assign another button to pop, or another button to push to another layer higher, like a sequential shifter.

It's unlikely that you'd have more than 3-4 layers, but should that happen, then that is how you would do it.


For example, you pick any 1 button on the ergodox in layer 0 to push layer 1, now you press it, now in this layer 1, you can assign that button separately to do anything, including push layer 2.. now you press that, and assign the same button in layer 2 to push layer 3. and so on.

Now alternatively, if you know what layer you're going to be in, you can set it to directly go there.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: TD22057 on Sun, 16 June 2013, 12:52:35
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

Do they have the keycaps up for purchase?  All I see are inactive buys for the caps...
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Jagriff on Sun, 16 June 2013, 12:54:20
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

Do they have the keycaps up for purchase?  All I see are inactive buys for the caps...
When you go to order, you can add keycaps for $37.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: TD22057 on Sun, 16 June 2013, 13:09:02
Two small questions: are the keycaps "thick" PBT? And how do the different layers work? Can I switch and stay in a particular layer?

Do they have the keycaps up for purchase?  All I see are inactive buys for the caps...
When you go to order, you can add keycaps for $37.

Thanks. 
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: linziyi on Tue, 18 June 2013, 16:54:26
:( they won't let me drop the case
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Grim Fandango on Tue, 18 June 2013, 19:33:17
I know I will catch some flack for this , but it does not seem all that comfortable for me to use.

I would like to try it out, but the price is a little too high for something I only half expect to like. It does look interesting though, and I have been a big fan of ergonomic keyboards that I have tried in the past.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 18 June 2013, 19:49:34
I know I will catch some flack for this , but it does not seem all that comfortable for me to use.

I would like to try it out, but the price is a little too high for something I only half expect to like. It does look interesting though, and I have been a big fan of ergonomic keyboards that I have tried in the past.

You're right to be suspicious.  but the design philosophies are well tested and carried out in numerous other keyboard iterations.. All of the best features have been combined to create the ergodox.

The straight column key layout, great success on the truly ergonomic

The thumb buttons/cluster,  kinesis
 
The splitting down the middle,  needs no introduction.


Ontop of that, it's fully programmable and cheap to buy...

easy mod plate for any conceivable spring/stem combination...

Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: SpAmRaY on Tue, 18 June 2013, 20:01:24
So what's the time frame on these once the sale is over. From reading on the mass drop site, sounds like they are having issues sourcing switches.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Tue, 18 June 2013, 21:26:03
So what's the time frame on these once the sale is over. From reading on the mass drop site, sounds like they are having issues sourcing switches.

yea... if we had any other place to buy an ergodox.. this would be a lively discussion.. :D, 
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tricheboars on Tue, 18 June 2013, 22:26:31
i dont like split keyboards. i hate soldering diodes. so why do i still want to buy this?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Tue, 18 June 2013, 23:38:22
i dont like split keyboards. i hate soldering diodes. so why do i still want to buy this?

an expensive educating keyboard building experience?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 19 June 2013, 02:22:21
i dont like split keyboards. i hate soldering diodes. so why do i still want to buy this?

an expensive educating keyboard building experience?

get yourself some "solder paste" for the smds..

I didn't want to wait 3 days so I built mine without it, but if I were to do another one i'd try to save a little time with solder paste.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: bbl on Wed, 19 June 2013, 03:03:38
MassDrop is offering only blank keycaps this time round.  As the learning curve of switching to blank is going to be rather steep, what GB I should join for legend keycaps?
- Will probably use the "standard" layout on Layer 0 provided at MassDrop.  (So much time/effort has put into it, got to be good.)
- Other GH participants have suggested harvesting keycaps from used keyboards offered at eBay.  However, the shipping cost is 3-4 times that of the used keyboard.  May as well buy new.
- Thick PBT is highly recommended here.  Nice to find out how good they are with this opportunity.  However, I do like the color scheme of the RED ALERT design.

Given the unique layout, it seems I need to join a keycap GB of a TKL keyboard.  Throw away the spacebar and, may be, buy one or two 1u or 1.5u for the thumb cluster.  (The thumb cluster seems to have more keys than a standard TKL.) 

Any advice?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 19 June 2013, 03:23:52
MassDrop is offering only blank keycaps this time round.  As the learning curve of switching to blank is going to be rather steep, what GB I should join for legend keycaps?
- Will probably use the "standard" layout on Layer 0 provided at MassDrop.  (So much time/effort has put into it, got to be good.)
- Other GH participants have suggested harvesting keycaps from used keyboards offered at eBay.  However, the shipping cost is 3-4 times that of the used keyboard.  May as well buy new.
- Thick PBT is highly recommended here.  Nice to find out how good they are with this opportunity.  However, I do like the color scheme of the RED ALERT design.

Given the unique layout, it seems I need to join a keycap GB of a TKL keyboard.  Throw away the spacebar and, may be, buy one or two 1u or 1.5u for the thumb cluster.  (The thumb cluster seems to have more keys than a standard TKL.) 

Any advice?


The "THICK" part of the thick pbt makes very little difference.. I think for most people that are reviewing the thick pbt, they are feeling the difference of cherry profile vs oem rather than anything to do with the THICKness

The shorter cherry profile will feel smoother because the shorter keycap generates less torque as it pivots the switch stem against the switch housing. This reduces the friction of the keypress

I recommend getting the DCS instead of the DSA profile keys from ergodox.

It is similar to the cherry profile.

It really doesn't make sense to buy a thick pbt set just for the ergodox, because you wouldn't use half the caps, and again, people are not correctly attributing the Advantage/ difference they are perceiving.


The default layout on massdrop is a good starting point.. but def don't be LIMITED by it or your own familiarity with qwerty.

Built the layout to Your specifications.


Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Wed, 19 June 2013, 07:25:20
MassDrop is offering only blank keycaps this time round.  As the learning curve of switching to blank is going to be rather steep, what GB I should join for legend keycaps?

If you're not touch typing the edox is useless, and if you are the curve shouldn't be too bad.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 20 June 2013, 02:10:32
I wish I could touch type. :(
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Thu, 20 June 2013, 10:55:21
It's way worth it to spend the time to learn, especially with the entrenchment of computers in every day living
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: ksm123 on Thu, 20 June 2013, 11:14:44
I wish I could touch type. :(

So stop whining, take the most tactile of your keyboards, a set of blank keycaps and follow a touch-typing tutorial. You should get the basics in two weeks, just remember to do your exercises twice a day, half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the evening, any thing more than an hour in one session is wasted time.
Before you start, spend an hour or two researching proper posture, position of the hands etc.
And one more thing, mechanical keyboards are superior to cheap RD because they actuate way before switch is depressed all the way. Make use of it while you're learning, its easier to learn proper technique from the beginning than to unlearn bad habits later on.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 20 June 2013, 11:45:52
I know me well enough that I won't pull threw it anyway. :D
I don't type that much, neither at my job nor in my private life, so it isn't that important to me atm.

So, "being able to touch type would be nice" is better phrased. ;)

Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Thu, 20 June 2013, 12:09:39
I wish I could touch type. :(

So stop whining, take the most tactile of your keyboards, a set of blank keycaps and follow a touch-typing tutorial. You should get the basics in two weeks, just remember to do your exercises twice a day, half an hour in the morning and half an hour in the evening, any thing more than an hour in one session is wasted time.
Before you start, spend an hour or two researching proper posture, position of the hands etc.
And one more thing, mechanical keyboards are superior to cheap RD because they actuate way before switch is depressed all the way. Make use of it while you're learning, its easier to learn proper technique from the beginning than to unlearn bad habits later on.

I learned to type by typing starcraft codes.....   :D  food for thought
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Bullveyr on Thu, 20 June 2013, 12:15:18
I'm more of a FPS gamer, outside the WASD cluster I'm not very proficient. :p
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Fri, 21 June 2013, 06:52:48
It took me like a week to get colemak to a useable speed coming from two finger qwerty.

It's not that hard, just do it.

It helps to keep a printout of your layout handy too.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: MOZ on Wed, 26 June 2013, 14:26:56
Possible to get a pair of PCB only?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: agodinhost on Wed, 26 June 2013, 15:52:03
Possible to get a pair of PCB only?
I'm in the same boat.
I think you will have to wait and see IF they are going to sell the PCBs again. I'm not quite sure of it.

Question for you guys:
They are saying at the MassDrop site that there are 3 days left.
It is a deadline date? Or I'll be able to buy it AFTER these 3 days?
The thing is that I'm not at the best moment in my credit card finances and I'm trying to avoid an violent death at the hands of my dear wife ...
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: tp4tissue on Wed, 26 June 2013, 16:04:18
Possible to get a pair of PCB only?
I'm in the same boat.
I think you will have to wait and see IF they are going to sell the PCBs again. I'm not quite sure of it.

Question for you guys:
They are saying at the MassDrop site that there are 3 days left.
It is a deadline date? Or I'll be able to buy it AFTER these 3 days?
The thing is that I'm not at the best moment in my credit card finances and I'm trying to avoid an violent death at the hands of my dear wife ...

sell something...
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: flc on Wed, 26 June 2013, 16:14:39
I'm on the fence on this one and hope your feedback will help me decide.

I'm a computer programmer who has always used whatever keyboard was available. However, a few months ago I embarked on a quest to find an ergonomic keyboard to avoid future problems. After hours of research on ergonomics I found that I wanted a split, programmable keyboard with a matrix layout that could be tented. To my surprise the closest thing I found that appealed to me was the Kinesis Freestyle 2. However, it is not programmable and has a staggered key layout.

Just as I was about to give up on my search I came across the ErgoDox and subsequently this site. Now that its become available again I am considering getting it but have some doubts. I'm still wondering if I should just get the Freestyle 2 and live with the limitations or splurge on the ErgoDox.

Here are my questions:
1. I'm a complete noob. Before finding geekhack I hadn't even considered mechanical keyboards and don't think I have never used one. This is probably the wrong forum to ask but are mechanical switches really that much better - thus justifying the higher cost?

2. I also saw videos of people lubricating the keys. Is this just a matter of preference or does it have to be done at least once?

3. This is probably very subjective, but if I were to get ErgoDox which switches do you recommend?

4. Being that this would really be my first ergonomic keyboard would you suggest I start out with something like the Freestyle 2 despite its shortcomings?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: CommunistWitchDr on Wed, 26 June 2013, 16:18:10
1. Yes

2. You don't have to

3. Totally subjective, order a wasd sampler

4. Edox is a fine start, don't waste time with the overpriced membrane board
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: kurplop on Wed, 26 June 2013, 17:49:51
I'm on the fence on this one and hope your feedback will help me decide.

I'm a computer programmer who has always used whatever keyboard was available. However, a few months ago I embarked on a quest to find an ergonomic keyboard to avoid future problems. After hours of research on ergonomics I found that I wanted a split, programmable keyboard with a matrix layout that could be tented. To my surprise the closest thing I found that appealed to me was the Kinesis Freestyle 2. However, it is not programmable and has a staggered key layout.

Just as I was about to give up on my search I came across the ErgoDox and subsequently this site. Now that its become available again I am considering getting it but have some doubts. I'm still wondering if I should just get the Freestyle 2 and live with the limitations or splurge on the ErgoDox.

Here are my questions:
1. I'm a complete noob. Before finding geekhack I hadn't even considered mechanical keyboards and don't think I have never used one. This is probably the wrong forum to ask but are mechanical switches really that much better - thus justifying the higher cost?

2. I also saw videos of people lubricating the keys. Is this just a matter of preference or does it have to be done at least once?

3. This is probably very subjective, but if I were to get ErgoDox which switches do you recommend?

4. Being that this would really be my first ergonomic keyboard would you suggest I start out with something like the Freestyle 2 despite its shortcomings?

Any help is greatly appreciated.



I should first say that I have an ErgoDox and I don't think I will ever go back to a conventional keyboard again. http://flic.kr/s/aHsjFazJhh

While I enjoy using a mechanical keyboard and they are certainly more durable, I don't think they are necessary for improved ergonomics. You should look up Gerk's posts from about Jan. through April of this year. He is also a programmer who finally found  that the Goldtouch V2  suits his needs and is quite happy with the relief he has experienced. Unlike you, he didm't want stacked columns just better hand orientation.

Whatever you decide, welcome to geekhack and I wish you success in your search.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Wed, 26 June 2013, 18:17:56
F**K IT. I need another one of these, and I'm willing to part with my beloved AE for it.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=45193.0
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: agodinhost on Wed, 26 June 2013, 18:25:09
Awesome hand work kurplop!
Congrats!
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: agodinhost on Wed, 26 June 2013, 18:29:23
Possible to get a pair of PCB only?
I'm in the same boat.
I think you will have to wait and see IF they are going to sell the PCBs again. I'm not quite sure of it.

Question for you guys:
They are saying at the MassDrop site that there are 3 days left.
It is a deadline date? Or I'll be able to buy it AFTER these 3 days?
The thing is that I'm not at the best moment in my credit card finances and I'm trying to avoid an violent death at the hands of my dear wife ...

sell something...
Already doing it bro ...
However I still don't know if they will continue to sell it after these 3 days ...
Please?
I never used the massdrop site before - that's why I'm asking.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:34:47
They might. That 3 days means that this current group buy ends in three days and you will not be able to purchase one until they start another group buy.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:40:10
not going to join the round 3 because i already have 3 edox (1.5 not built), but i am contemplating joining that DCS blanks GB that closes in 24 hours. i wish it $45 was unlocked; my money be thin right now. :P

Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Wed, 26 June 2013, 19:49:37
Do it. DCS on the ErgoDox (with DSA for the thumb clusters and verticals) is PURE SEX ON YOUR FINGERS
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Wed, 26 June 2013, 20:03:47
i don't man, i really committed to this DSA thing. http://flic.kr/p/eCtCEd and i joined the dolch thing.

it would be like me admitting that a hundred posts i made on geekhack were total bull****.

but the truth is i know DCS is better, and the DSA/DCS combo is amazing

my previous setup before Retro was SP doubleshot DCS for all the keys except the thumbs and 1.5x

almost makes me want to run DSA group buys not for a full set but to make it so that you can use CnG, Klaxon, Raindrop, etc work with the ErgoDox. Oh look i'm being hypocritical again; we were talking about blanks :P
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Jagriff on Wed, 26 June 2013, 20:37:27
Maybe we should have a DCS/DSA combo group buy in a different color (maybe whlte blanks).
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Wed, 26 June 2013, 20:45:23
maybe....i imagine it would be expensive though to have a ergodox specific GB, especially DCS

however in their blank inventory they do have over a 1000 row 1,2,3,4 1x ABS WA-Bright White blanks right now in stock for a dollar each with discounts available for bulk orders, they just don't have the 2x and 1.5 DCS or DSA.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: flc on Wed, 26 June 2013, 22:52:08
1. Yes

2. You don't have to

3. Totally subjective, order a wasd sampler

4. Edox is a fine start, don't waste time with the overpriced membrane board

Thank you for your input. Regarding the wasd sampler, it would mean missing out on the current (and perhaps last) group buy while I wait to get it.

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjFazJhh
I just have to say... WOW!

Thank you for your feedback and mentioning that mechanical keyboards are not necessary for improved ergonomics. Perhaps I should post in the ergonomics forum instead. I will take another look at the Goldtouch.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Larken on Wed, 26 June 2013, 23:04:55
Well, with all the keycaps sets that most geekhackers have, one could probably just use DSA on mods and thumb cluster and grab the alpha keys off a normal DCS set to use on the ergodox. I did that for a while before I went with full DSA.

pic before I went with dsa retro.

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8251/8653658181_9e6537a88c_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/89364707@N02/8653658181/)

that said, I'm probably not going to use the DCS sets I have on my doxes as I don't really have an issue with DSA, also the main reason why I'm not very interested in the DCS buy at massdrop (not to mention that I think they don't have homing bumps/deepdishes in the set).

I'm never going back to a normal layout again either :D But I have to say that the layout is a commitment. I have problems using normal stagger layouts nowadays with all the hours I'm spending on the ergodox.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Wed, 26 June 2013, 23:41:39
I'm never going back to a normal layout again either :D But I have to say that the layout is a commitment. I have problems using normal stagger layouts nowadays with all the hours I'm spending on the ergodox.

Unfortunately, I think I'm in the same boat. The vertical layout of the ErgoDox really does spoil you once you become used to it, and normal staggered layouts feel just....weird.

I hope to god they do a round 4, not so sure I'll be able to make it into R3
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Larken on Thu, 27 June 2013, 00:42:06

Unfortunately, I think I'm in the same boat. The vertical layout of the ErgoDox really does spoil you once you become used to it, and normal staggered layouts feel just....weird.

I hope to god they do a round 4, not so sure I'll be able to make it into R3

exactly. there was a moment when I dusted off the old filco, and tried to type on it, just to keep in practice. Less than 5 minutes later, I was actually thinking this - 'wow, this is quite uncomfortable'; this referring to the close together wrist positions along with 'mm, why am I torturing my wrists?'

I then proceeded to replace the dust cover on the filco, and since then, passed a few of my extra boards to friends and relatives, keeping the few that I know I'll miss. It also keeps me off the topre train (which I admit I was tempted to try, but have since lost interest as there isn't a topre board in this particular layout).

The demand seems to be going strong though. I didn't expect it to go past r2 due to how niche the product was, but clearly I was wrong (also the reason why I got 2 in the first round, for fear there won't be another round). But it looks like the demand is definitely there :D
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: grips on Thu, 27 June 2013, 08:34:53

Unfortunately, I think I'm in the same boat. The vertical layout of the ErgoDox really does spoil you once you become used to it, and normal staggered layouts feel just....weird.

I hope to god they do a round 4, not so sure I'll be able to make it into R3

exactly. there was a moment when I dusted off the old filco, and tried to type on it, just to keep in practice. Less than 5 minutes later, I was actually thinking this - 'wow, this is quite uncomfortable'; this referring to the close together wrist positions along with 'mm, why am I torturing my wrists?'

I then proceeded to replace the dust cover on the filco, and since then, passed a few of my extra boards to friends and relatives, keeping the few that I know I'll miss. It also keeps me off the topre train (which I admit I was tempted to try, but have since lost interest as there isn't a topre board in this particular layout).

The demand seems to be going strong though. I didn't expect it to go past r2 due to how niche the product was, but clearly I was wrong (also the reason why I got 2 in the first round, for fear there won't be another round). But it looks like the demand is definitely there :D

Hi, Larken. I have ordered an ergodox this round, partly due to seeing your typing video and keyboard. I'm curious how you went about getting the center of your board elevated to produce your slight vertical angle.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Larken on Thu, 27 June 2013, 08:52:42

Hi, Larken. I have ordered an ergodox this round, partly due to seeing your typing video and keyboard. I'm curious how you went about getting the center of your board elevated to produce your slight vertical angle.

I used a pair of kinesis v3 lifters suggested by Glod.

http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Ac730-blk-Freestyle-Accessory/dp/B003F8MDPY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372340971&sr=8-1&keywords=kinesis+v3

It requires sawing off a small part of the lifters, and a method of fastening the lifters to the bottom of the board. I used 3m plastic fasteners (basically velcro). When I'm less busy with work and have better light for pictures, I'll take a few pictures to make for a guide if needed (though its pretty simple).
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: grips on Thu, 27 June 2013, 09:02:25

Hi, Larken. I have ordered an ergodox this round, partly due to seeing your typing video and keyboard. I'm curious how you went about getting the center of your board elevated to produce your slight vertical angle.

I used a pair of kinesis v3 lifters suggested by Glod.

http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-Corporation-Ac730-blk-Freestyle-Accessory/dp/B003F8MDPY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372340971&sr=8-1&keywords=kinesis+v3

It requires sawing off a small part of the lifters, and a method of fastening the lifters to the bottom of the board. I used 3m plastic fasteners (basically velcro). When I'm less busy with work and have better light for pictures, I'll take a few pictures to make for a guide if needed (though its pretty simple).

Thank you! Some pictures would be helpful. That angle looks comfortable as hell.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Dgsbllx on Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:49:44
I'm diving in. Am I ordering Classic or Full hand?  :-\
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: flc on Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:56:37
I was asking myself the same question. I like the look of the Classic much better but I hear that if you want to tent it you should get the Full Hand.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: flc on Fri, 28 June 2013, 10:59:46
Which switches were you looking to get? I've never tried any of the but I am leaning towards the clear. It seems that they are quieter and will be used mostly for work and not gaming.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: SeriouSSpotS on Fri, 28 June 2013, 11:02:18
Ohhh tempting.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Fri, 28 June 2013, 11:02:39
@flc I've heard the exact opposite: The classic is apparently much easier to do the tenting on.

I have a full hand right now, and put in an order for a classic in R3. Not sure if I'll be tenting it, it's more for portability. But it will be interesting to compare the two side by side.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Dgsbllx on Fri, 28 June 2013, 11:04:46
I'm getting it with no switches as I've got loads of blues and browns hanging about that can go on there for now. Portability isn't too much of an issue for me and I don't usually use wrist rests anyway so I'm thinking Classic. First world problems  :(
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: flc on Fri, 28 June 2013, 11:15:15
@daerid

Now I'm more confused about the case. Here is another opinion...

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=44940.msg935340#msg935340
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Fri, 28 June 2013, 12:17:45
Maybe I've got it backwards! I don't tent my board though (I've always typed with my wrists curved), so take my input with a grain of salt :)
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Fri, 28 June 2013, 14:08:21
highly recommended trying tenting sometime, not guaranteed you will like it but it is worth trying.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: longweight on Fri, 28 June 2013, 17:25:55
Ordered! I just hope that the wait for clear switches isn't too long!
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Fri, 28 June 2013, 20:53:31
There's a wait for Clears?!?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Fri, 28 June 2013, 20:59:01
if they got them from the same source they got their switches previously I doubt there will be a delay. round 2 was super quick, I bet round 3 will be just as quick

Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 29 June 2013, 00:16:25
Ok good. 4 weeks is long enough!
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: llovro on Sat, 29 June 2013, 02:33:32
This is tempting but I think acryllic plate kills it for me :S
Oh, and also I've seen that they're not shipping to slovenia
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Sat, 29 June 2013, 03:38:50
they will ship like almost anywhere in the world, you just have to contact them by chat or email to get a quote on the shipping, the countries they have listed are those in which they have gotten quotes for.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: longweight on Sat, 29 June 2013, 03:46:07
This is tempting but I think acryllic plate kills it for me :S
Oh, and also I've seen that they're not shipping to slovenia


What is wrong with the plate? Make your own!
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: llovro on Sat, 29 June 2013, 04:11:25
This is tempting but I think acryllic plate kills it for me :S
Oh, and also I've seen that they're not shipping to slovenia


What is wrong with the plate? Make your own!
well, I heard that acryllic plates make the keyboard feel cheap. Also making an aluminium ergodox plate would cost a lot of money
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: longweight on Sat, 29 June 2013, 04:12:28
I really don't think that it would, it is just two CNC cut plates.


Are there CAD files available for the 5 sheets that make up the case?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Sat, 29 June 2013, 04:52:54
the acrylic is really solid, the plate layer does not bend. it is super thick in fact so thick through hole diodes cannot be used because the plate actually touches the PCB

i just hate the acrylic because its clear and glossy, but the design is solid.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 29 June 2013, 09:46:04
Yeah you really need something to cover up the acrylic, it's worse than the Das Keyboard when it comes to picking up fingerprint/dust/oils/etc...

... Something like Glod's super sexy carbon fiber mod!
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: mcbonz on Tue, 16 July 2013, 11:56:33
Glod, I just wonder if you made your awesome wooden wrist rest yourself?
They are just the most beautiful thing!
Also make the aluminium case look very attractive to me... ;D
What kind of wood is that?

seriously... amazing!  :eek:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5466/8945520450_c0b5a72c2e_c.jpg)
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Tue, 16 July 2013, 12:09:01
The rest was made by another geekhack member as an experiment (not something for sale) and then i stained it and added varnish. The wood i think is maple or birch i forgot.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: mcbonz on Tue, 16 July 2013, 13:39:18
The rest was made by another geekhack member as an experiment (not something for sale) and then i stained it and added varnish. The wood i think is maple or birch i forgot.

Thank you. I think I'd like to do something similar one day. Since I think the classic style case looks way better.
I'm so sorry to hear about the bad quality of the aluminium case. I also don't like the acrylic look so much but in this case it sounds like the better alternative.
I hope to be able to join in round 4 on ErgoDox classics with some MX Blues as my first mechanical keyboard!  :))
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: blissdev on Fri, 30 August 2013, 22:23:11
I read through this and still don't see the answer, should I get classic or full hand? And which one can tent?
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Fri, 30 August 2013, 23:08:21
Both can tent, although the classic case is probably going to be easier to do so due to it's smaller size. And it really depends on whether you want built in palm rests.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: blissdev on Fri, 30 August 2013, 23:11:59
Both can tent, although the classic case is probably going to be easier to do so due to it's smaller size. And it really depends on whether you want built in palm rests.

I suppose you could always add hand rests to the classic?

Thanks for the response.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: daerid on Sat, 31 August 2013, 01:25:25
Yeah, you could, but they'd have to be custom ala Glod's or kurplop's
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: kurplop on Sat, 31 August 2013, 06:02:26
If anybody is interested, I could make a limited number of "Glod style" tented palm rests (Ergodock's) for a $25 donation to geekhack. They would be unfinished and would require some finish sanding. Because of shipping , CONUS only. 

PM me if interested.
Title: Re: ErgoDox round 3 GB is ON at Massdrop!
Post by: Glod on Sun, 01 September 2013, 14:12:35
If anybody is interested, I could make a limited number of "Glod style" tented palm rests (Ergodock's) for a $25 donation to geekhack. They would be unfinished and would require some finish sanding. Because of shipping , CONUS only. 

PM me if interested.

^ worth it! and if you don't like tent the design you can remove the tent bars